Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@danielmaster87 said:
"Some players found the auto-aim frustrating because you couldn't target a specific survivor." You can't do that anyway, genius. Just try it. 2 survivors running together, the tracker is gonna go for whoever it wants, not who you want. And if you try to adjust by pulling the camera away, it resets both their tracks, and you end up not infecting/slipstreaming either player.
- When I have a biopod camera pointed in a certain direction, and I enter the biopod fully expecting it to scan the survivor the biopod is pointing at, autoaim can do a 180 turn and scan a survivor I didn't even know was there.
- When I have a biopod camera pointed in a certain direction, and autoaim massively turns the camera, but the survivor goes out of line of sight before being scanned, then it's very disorienting because I need to know instantly which direction the camera moved, and how far the camera moved, so I can calculate which direction the survivor went in comparison to where Singularity is actually standing.
- You can target specific survivors. If the camera is scanning the wrong person, you can quickly move the target window away, and move it back at such an angle that the survivor you want to scan hits the target window first. Also, if the survivors really are that close to each other, then it might be fine to just teleport to the wrong survivor, because you'll still be right next to the survivor you want to chase.
- I would much rather have a 0.6 second manual scan, than be forced into a 0.8 second automatic scan. I shouldn't be nerfed and punished because of a console accessibility feature.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758210#Comment_3758210
Is there any reason that we should NOT use that formula other than it makes your argument worse?
The only reason it says it's a sports term is for most of human history sports were the only thing you could reasonably track winrate for, so it was a formula invented for that. Why shouldn't we use it?
You say BHVR haven't said a draw is considered half a win, but possibly the most infamous thing BHVR have said was to compare DBD to hockey. Surely if we're going by what BHVR have said, we would then reasonably be able to use the sports formula for the thing they said is like a sport.
Not that any of that matters. Even if we look at nightlight stats, any way of looking at the numbers puts killers on top
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N11CE655K0PB/screenshot-20240712-045956-chrome.jpg
(Taken from nightlight, 12 July 2024)
Killers win 55.5% of their games, lose 32.2%, and tie the remaining 12.4%, while maintaining a 60.4% kill rate. By any metric, the killer win rate eclipses the survivor win rate.
Using the commonly accepted method, killer winrate is (12.3/2) + 55.5% = 61.65%.
If you want to ignore draws, that still means the killer has a 55.5% win rate compared to the survivor team's 32.2%
Even if you want to include survivor team draws as losses for the killer AND wins for the survivor (for some reason) that STILL puts the killer winrare above the survivor "non-loss" rate
Also, if you compare the survivor individual win (escape) rate of 39.6% to the killer win rate, there's a gulf of difference there. (However, that winrate also includes hatch escapes in 3ks, which individually count as a draw, so that's still actually a survivor "non-loss" rate instead of a winrate proper.)
Also, Nightlight is usually not 100% accurate, but whenever official stats drop they've always been slightly more killer sided so if there are any complaints about these numbers the reality is probably even more killer sided.
So yeah that's basically it. There's no good reason not to use that formula, but even if you don't use it any reasonable metric you could choose to use paints a similar picture.
A draw might actually be an MMR loss for killers, because the MMR formula is designed to stabilize killers at a 60% kill rate, and a draw is less than a 60% kill rate.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758946#Comment_3758946
If you take the calculations I presented and remove the "x 1.5", Stridor will always result in 50%, so to say that "that is the only way" is incorrect. It is A way of accomplishing 50%, but not the ONLY way.
And I think Mandy's post does not clarify if these addons will stack with Stridor's effect or not, it only mentions how the additive change only affects Stridor, and the addons will remain multiplicative.
(I dont want this to come off as rude, of course, and I hope it does not come off as such. Im just wanting further clarification from a source that I can more accurately rely on.)
In order for Stridor to happen after all the survivor perks, but before any other killer perk, someone would need to go through the extra effort to very specifically program that to happen. Which would mean that even though BHVR is unwilling to make the killer sound addons additive, they would still go through the extra effort to make sure the killer sound addons would always function when used with Stridor?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758603#Comment_3758603
If I am running Stridor AND one of these addons, how does the multiplicative modifier apply?
Modifiers such as:
[ (Survivor Grunts of Pain) - (Iron Will) ] x (Course Stone) ] + (Stridor) = ?
[ (100 - 100) x 1.5 ] + 50 = 50%
Would make them pointless compared to:
[ (Survivor Grunts of Pain) - (Iron Will) ] + (Stridor) ] x (Course Stone) = ?
[ (100 - 100) + 50 ] x 1.5 = 75%
I do not think the calculations for determining the Survivor's Grunts of Pain has ever been public disclosed (I could be wrong), but the changing the position of things has a massive impact on what number pops out.
Removing Stridor should always result in 0% in the calculations I provided, so further clarification might be required (if it isnt too much to ask, I understand that you guys are really busy, so if you are unable to, I understand 👍️).
All the multiplicative modifiers should happen first, then the additive modifier happens afterwards. That is the only way that Stridor could be guaranteed to result in more than 0% sound, if a survivor has multiple silent sound perks.
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The addons should be made additive too. If killers want to use an entire addon slot to make it easier to hear survivors… then it should actually make it easier to hear survivors.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758582#Comment_3758582
I have a feeling they'll just make the time it takes to enter an autoaiming biopod 0.2 seconds.
I'm hoping the auto aim mode will be balanced appropriately. For example, if a 0.2 second enter time causes Singularity to overperform at certain MMR levels, then maybe make the enter time 0.4 seconds…. Or do something else that balances auto-aim mode, and only auto-aim mode.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758575#Comment_3758575
yes, this is exactly what im talking about.
autoaim is no longer being forced upon or interfering with experience of other people, GREAT, thanks.
however other issues persist too. It's not just accessibility, it's a VERY big buff that makes certain aspects of the killer way easier.
Im really worried that compensatory nerfs will still happen, just not right now.
I really wish BHVR would have implemented preset camera flicks (e.g. 45 degrees left) to the camera mode, so that it helps controller players without affecting the overall game balance of the killer.
Auto aim will be a huge boost for many PC players that use a mouse and keyboard, and if it causes a bunch of complaints that it "lacks counterplay", then I'm really worried Singularity will just get slammed by the nerf hammer.
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@fussy said:
It's about auto-aim, not about Lock-on time. It will stay the same, if i get it correctly.
During the PTB, the lock-on time was increased to 0.8 seconds because of auto-aim, then was reverted back to 0.6 seconds because auto-aim was removed.
In a future update, players will have the option to use auto-aim, which means that auto-aim is being brought back into the game. I'm hoping the 0.8 second lock-on time doesn't get thrown onto players using manual-aim.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758562#Comment_3758562
are there any worries with devs' team that autoaim will be used to find people singularity otherwise wouldn't have known about or you're aware of it & considering it part of the intended design?
great compromise for now though, im glad its not being forced.
I'm just worried that autoaim will eventually force Singularity to be nerfed, if it caused the killer to overperform in some MMR levels. The autoaim mode might need to have separate balancing from manual mode, so that PC players aren't ultimately nerfed because of a controller accessibility improvement.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757196#Comment_3757196
I can share now that the dev update is out, there's some good news in there for you! The auto aim will be making a return in one of the following minor updates as an optional mechanic. Tapping the button will take control of the pod as usual while holding the button will take control of the pod and aim at the nearest Survivor in view.
We ultimately decided not to force it upon folks who prefered to pre-emptively aim their pods at hotspots, but many other people appreciated the feature, so this'll be the best of both worlds.
More info can be found here:
I hope that manually scanning survivors, stays at 0.6 seconds when the autoaim update is implemented. And if autoaim needs a higher scanning time, that the higher scanning time only exists when Singularity is using auto aim mode.
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Or BHVR could just add preset flicks (i.e. 45 degree flick left) to the killer while in camera mode, to bridge the gap between console and PC.
The scanning window in camera mode is huge, so preset flicks are a good solution for console players. This isn’t like Trickster, who his tiny knife hitboxes that need to be aimed carefully.
Auto aim does way more than “just help console players”. It also super boosted many PC players, that weren’t fast with aiming even though they had a mouse and keyboard.
Again, there are ways to help console players, that don’t involve auto aim, and BHVR should look into that. And if people don't like that idea, then other things could be considered. Maybe have a button combination in camera mode, to increase camera movement sensitivity by something like +50% or +100%? Maybe controller players need a bigger range of sensitivities they can choose from?
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For purposes of starting the campaign, if you’re cool with making up a bit of lore, then maybe there could be a separate “killer realm” where all the killers live when they aren’t being summoned into trials. This would give an explanation of how the killers were able to talk to each other, often enough to plan a revolution.
There could also be a separate survivor realm, where all the survivors live when they aren’t being summoned into trials. The main difference is that whenever a survivor is summoned into a trial, they get temporary amnesia so they always think it is the first trial they’ve been in. Maybe there could be a lore explanation that Mikaela did some magic ritual to make herself immune to the amnesia. Or maybe Vecna did some magic ritual to make Mikaela immune to amnesia when he recruited her to the revolution, and he was periodically talking to her when they were summoned into the same trial?
The short version of this idea is the campaign could start in this made up “killer realm”, in some made up building where the killers are having one of their revolution meetings?
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3755021#Comment_3755021
Honestly, I don't care what they do as long they do something to help console players. I even said I would be happy if they just added the aim assist to the console version of the game like other games do. Like I personally don't need it bc I play on K&M but I do feel for those who have to play this game with a controller. They deserve the help.
Adding aim assist to console only, might create the opposite problem, where some players perform much better on console than PC, because aim assist is that game changing to them. The scanning aim assist isn't like FPS console aim assist, where it can slightly nudge the projectile to the correct place. This is full instant 360 degrees aim assist.
Also, this isn't the first time console aim assist went way too far. Apex Legends was well known for having aim assist that went way too far, and some tournament players were even purposely playing tournaments on a controller because the aim assist was that powerful.
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@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754996#Comment_3754996
btw Im not talking about casual players here. Im purely talking about PC players vs Console players. Unlike PC players console players do not have the choice on what input they use to play the game since console dbd doesn't support K&M. Now you the one who put words in my mouth since I never said anything about elitist vs casual players. That said Im sure casual pc players don't mind if console players have an easier time playing the game with a controller. It does seem the only ppl who complained about the aim assist were those who came off as elitists and are PC players. It's the same song and dance in every game, pc players always look down at console players in pvp games. Honestly, I believe they should just add aim assist just to the console version of the game and turn off cross-play so it playing field is more even. To me that the only real way to fix this problem. That or do what other said and make a addon that allow aim assist that why ppl who dont want it can just not use the addon.
Or BHVR could just add preset flicks (i.e. 45 degree flick left) to the killer while in camera mode, to bridge the gap between console and PC.
The scanning window in camera mode is huge, so preset flicks are a good solution for console players. This isn’t like Trickster, who his tiny knife hitboxes that need to be aimed carefully.
Auto aim does way more than “just help console players”. It also super boosted many PC players, that weren’t fast with aiming even though they had a mouse and keyboard.
Again, there are ways to help console players, that don’t involve auto aim, and BHVR should look into that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
curious for skull merchant response I don't know how they can prevent survivors from d/cing. I don't think making her weaker solves anything other than make killer player that play her not play her a more rare killer than the twins. If they completely rework her from scratch and make an entirely different character than dbd loses 1 of the 3 trap-based killers in the game.
in my opinion, i don't see a clear solution. to me, it sounds like childish behaviour to d/c.
BHVR will probably use the same balancing strategy that they did with Nurse, Spirit, and Blight, where they just pile nerf upon nerf upon nerf, until the bulk of the complaints go away.
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@ParadoxSingularity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754289#Comment_3754289
Respectfully saying "console players just need X" isn't really the solution you think it is. The PTB camera aim assist mechanic worked perfectly fine, and reduced the mental load required to operate the Singularities biopods, which is not where his skill expression comes from. Having bumper buttons to flick doesn't really solve the issue of his biopods being disorientating on console, and completely ignores the PC QoL aspect of the feature.
For beginner players, the aim assist will be invaluable to letting them use the Singularities power in interesting ways, as it lets them get over the hurdle of scanning survivors; something which you will do 20+ times per match ideally
For experienced players such as myself, the feature was a nice QoL change at most. I had minor implications for muscle memory, but no real downside, and definitely doesn't oversimplify the killer to any extent.
Biopods are equally disorienting on console and PC. The main difference between console and PC, is that mouse users can very quickly flick the camera to a survivor. Adding preset flicks to controller users, would greatly help close this gap.
And mentioning that aim assist is good for beginner players, also has nothing to do with console players versus PC players. I was very specifically mentioning a solution to bridge the gap between console and PC players.
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Console players just need button mappings for quick flicks. For example,
Left front bumper = 45 degree flick left
Left back bumper = 90 degree flick left
Right front bumper = 45 degree flick right
Right back bumper = 90 degree flick right
(Depending on the controller, it might need to be button combinations like LT+A, or whatever is available, if the controller doesn't have many extra buttons on it)
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Badham should have been fixed a long time ago, considering that a Badham map offering, combined with a shack basement offering, creates the most obnoxious map configuration in the game, where large portions of the main building basement are completely out of range of hooks.
And there are still a ton of problematic loops (or tiles) on maps, that have zero counterplay for M1 killers, and when the killer and survivor both know how to play the loop, it's just 100% in favor of the survivor, and it's just a walking simulator for the killer. If survivors want less dead zones on maps, then these problematic 100% survivor-sided loops need to go away.
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- Completely rework both instant kill addons, and the infinite tier 3 addon
- Survivors regenerate their "stalking pool" at a rate of 1% per second
- The number of charge to get from tier 1 to tier 2 is reduced by 50%
- Myers can lunge in tier 1
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@KaTo1337 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754161#Comment_3754161
But the Dream Projection with using Fake-Teleports is a unique thing that I would miss if we go entirely back to OG-Freddy.
For me, OG-Freddy without Aurareading, but with the Teleport seems fine. In addition, in Dream Transition survivors should become Incapacitated, so they cannot finish gens in your face while you look at them.Im VERY curious to see what they will do with Freddy. VERY CURIOUS.
The fake teleports just need a much higher cooldown. Being able to fake teleport is fine, but it’s miserable to play against when fake teleports are being spammed every few seconds on cooldown.
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I hope Freddy loses the ability to spam 99% teleports every few seconds, because that is by far the most annoying thing for survivors that he does.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3754084#Comment_3754084
I mean, it is a double standard, they are different concepts. It's not that one is the equivalent of the other, because they aren't, really. Survivors aren't leveraging some massively unbalanced gap in the base game mechanics when they genrush, they're bringing the best tools possible and getting an unbalanced result because of it.
The equivalent on the killer side would be stacking four slowdown perks and getting unbalanced results because of it. Bringing a specific build that heavily affects one specific area, that's the connective tissue.
There isn't really an equivalent to tunnelling in this regard for survivor, because, well, what basekit gaps are there for survivors to abuse?
The double standard is that pretty much every "problematic" killer behavior, like camping, slugging, tunneling, 3-gen, etc… is super easy to achieve in any game, by any killer, at any time. It promotes the idea that killers can easily be problematic, and killers need nerfs because they are often being problematic…
…But when pretty much every survivor "problematic" behavior is hyper specific, and can't even possibly occur in most games, it promotes the idea that survivors don't need nerfs, because survivor problematic behaviors are so very rare.
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@Shuma said:
Gen-Rushing - When 3 or more survivors have toolboxes maxed out AND all 4 perks, for those survivors, increase gen speeds.
Tunneling - The killer going for someone that just got unhooled. If another survivor is in view, the killer needs to ignore them and only go for the unhooked survivor.
Tunneling at 5 gens - This is the poor-game-health tunneling in which a killer starts going after a single survivor ignoring other survivors. (This should be fixed by the devs)
Defining Tunneling as something that any killer could easily do in any game, but defining Gen-Rushing as a super specific thing that can't even happen in most games… just shows a double standard where killers can easily achieve problematic behaviors, but survivors are free to do whatever in most games because the standard bar for problematic survivor behavior is so very very high that it often can't be achieved.
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@MikeyMyers666 said:
Why is tombstone piece an issue all of a sudden? It still takes a long time to get to T3, you only have a short period of time to use it, and then it drains significantly after you use it. It's also very difficult to get back to T3 before all the gens are done. I haven't had much luck with it. It doesn't need a nerf.
Both the instant kill addons need to be reworked. They are outdated and don’t belong in modern DBD.
Remember what happened to Pig, because her head trap kills were considered unfair….
- Inactive head traps no longer trigger at exit gates
- Head trap addons nerfed, which also involved completely removing the addons that could require the survivors to make more than 4 searches
- An extra box was added to the game, so Pig can’t camp the last box anymore
- Pig can’t see box auras anymore
…Meanwhile, Myers can just stalk some of the survivors, then walk up to a different survivor that is healthy and never been hooked, and instant kill them with two button clicks. It’s the most unfair mechanic for solo q survivors in the entire game.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753168#Comment_3753168
There's nothing wrong with anti-tunnel perks. If tunnelling isn't happening as much as people feel it is, then they'll realize that when they get little to no value out of the perk/s and they'll eventually swap it to something else. As I said in my comment, I rarely see tunnelling but there's nothing wrong with anti-tunnelling perk options. If only a tiny percentage of killers are tunnelling then it's a wasted perk slot for most survivors and most killers will never see it in play as most don't tunnel.
If a survivor equips an anti-tunnel perk like DS, and isn’t getting tunneled, then many of them like to weaponize the perk against the killer so they “don’t waste the perk”.
And that’s the problem with many of the anti-tunnel perks.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3752869#Comment_3752869
That, and the item isn't sneaking away from you…
I think Weave Attunement would be fine so long as it didn't go through floors. It's a bit busted on two-story maps (which also make the issue of 'where is the item' worse) and the amount of map that gets revealed by a single item can be pretty huge, but otherwise the damage is generally constrained to a tile. Leave the tile you got Franklins'd in and go back later to clean up the item. I haven't had a problem with this perk combo and I'm liking versing it much more than quad slowdown.
This perk combination is also very unreliable, and isn't worth running at higher MMR, where killers are more likely to go against coordinated SWFs that will just voice comm each other to drop their items far away from anything useful.
It's much more reliable to just play quad slowdown, where you don't need to worry about survivors that can voice comm your perks away. Killers should pick perks that are good against coordinated SWFs, because those are the survivors that are the hardest to beat. Purposely picking perks that are weak against coordinated SWFs, just sounds like a waste of perk slots.
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Both the instant kill addons need to be completely reworked. It’s ridiculous that Pig and Sadako both got multiple nerfs to their alternate kill mechanics, out of fairness for survivors….. but Myers still gets to instantly kill a survivor with a click of a button?
And since BHVR likes to nerf or rework perks that are overused, overperforming, or “gives too much value”, then the infinite tier 3 addon also needs to be reworked.
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I’d rather deal with this perk combination, than deal with 100% iron will.
At least with this perk combination, survivors can use triangulation (the perk notifies survivors when they are in range of a dropped item) to find the items on the ground.Meanwhile, if a survivor is hiding in a locker, or behind a wall, and has 100% iron will….. well too bad for the killer because it’s zero sound, and the killer is just expected to open every locker, and loop around every object, to try to find that survivor.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/418517/stop-wasting-time
Stop blaming the killers for it and start blaming the devs, or the survivor who is hiding.
Why are the devs at fault?
- a 4k gives more bloodpoints
- a hatch escape feels bad especially when survivors teabag
- its impossible to defend both gates in most maps (which is intentional) unless you are playing a top tier killer like nurse, so refer back to the bloodpoints
- The last survivor escaping is a multi-level handout
- The killer had to win the match by stopping the survivors
- Then they had to win the 50/50 and find the hatch first
- Then they had to win the 50/50 and find the survivor before they open a gate and get out
- Why does the killer have to win 3 times to get the 4k?
Its just bad design.
As for the survivor, if this is happening, the 4th survivor is fully capable of just running to the killer and letting them get the 4k, because if the killer is slugging for the 4k, it is likely that they are gonna get it anyway. So why waste everyone's time?
I would stop trying for 4k, if BHVR would make an official announcement that the 4th survivor is worth 0 MMR points for the killer, and therefore it doesn't matter what happens to them.
Because right now, if that 4th person escapes through a hatch (or an exit gate after hatch is closed), then it causes a net loss in MMR, because I would have gotten more MMR if I had gotten the 4k.
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We don't need a comp mode. We just need a ranked mode, where…
1) We can see MMR scores
2) Any sort of rift, event, or daily challenges are deactivated
3) Something is done to discourage ragequitting and lone wolf survivors
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When I double click the DBD icon on my computer, allow me to go directly to the Main Menu screen (the screen with the PLAY, THE ARCHIVES, STORE buttons). Because currently we have to….
- Double click the DBD icon
- WAIT for the splash screen to load
- Press a button to get past the splash screen
- WAIT for the movie cutscenes to play
- Press a button to get past the movie cutscenes
- WAIT for the Main Menu to appear
Like, for reals this is an excessive amount of time and clicking, just to get to the main menu.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746091#Comment_3746091
Maybe you don't remember, but I do: Iron Will was everywhere before the nerf. It was right below the big four (Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline, Dead Hard) in terms of its usage and strength. Being completely silent when you're injured is a MASSIVE advantage in chase.
I'm guessing you don't play Killer much and don't understand just how much the Killer relies on sound, both to find survivors who are hiding and to keep track of where they are during a chase. With no sound cues, you can often just duck into a Killer's blind spot mid-chase and just like that, you're gone.
On these forums, we very often have a big contradiction where
- A perk change "isn't really a big deal for killers" and "killers can easily deal with it"
- It's very important this perk change happens, because it's a big deal for survivors
Because if 100% iron will really "isn't a big deal", then it should be fine if the buff never happens, right?
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And people used to use it with Dead Hard, which is an exhaustion perk, because the survivor has full control on when dead hard is used. The perk should inflict exhaustion, to prevent this combo from happening.
And now people will use it with background player too, which is also an exhaustion perk.
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@Ohyakno said:
I have no idea why people feel the need to gatekeep singularity.
Some of us are still upset about the Twins changes, where they got so many complaints that BHVR overnerfed Twins and made them weaker than they were before the rework.
Yes, Twins would have been better off if the rework had never happened. Survivors can now hold Victor hostage for even longer than before, which means it's just miserable to play as this killer now. And now we might get a whole bunch of Singularity nerfs that will leave him worse off than if this update never happened. We're better of if BHVR never tries to update killers, because the killers often lose out in the end.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3745002#Comment_3745002
The Killer still has all the choices all throughout a sabo scenario.
- They can head 1-6 different directions to get a hook from pickup, location dependent.
- They can drop when they see a Survivor attempting Sabo (getting in position with a Toolbox also counts).
- They can get the sabo free hit then drop.
- They can take the free sabo hit and still reach another hook in time.
- They can fake Hook 1 to bait a sabo, and go for Hook 2 instead.
- If they are in a corner, then they are only prohibited from option 1 (shrinking options down to 1 direction only).
So where is this a problem? There are 4/5 scenarios for the Killer to still come out on top in a Sabo scenario, based on whether the downed Survivor was in a corner or not. Garsh darn, I can't win against No Mither Survivors saboing all the time.
Distortion is annoying, sure, but the lack of information is also information. I run Lethal Pursuer and Iri Cam on Ghostface, and the starting Lethal gives me enough info to plan around for the rest of the match. Distortion should probably be looked at to remove the token recovery, but only once the super common aura add-ons are limited. Iri Cam and Leprose Lichen are in the same category as Compound Twenty-One and Glowing Concoction, which are also competing against Lavalier Microphone, Cigar Box, All Seeing Blood, Light Chassis, and Mirror Myers. We have 3 distinct classes of aura add-ons: earned/rare, unearned/common, and effectively permanent. Distortion has to compete against all 3 classes, which means the earned/rare are thrown under the bus, and the effectively permanent are unaffected.
Iron Will is still going to be mutually exclusive with Exhaustion, so it won't work against the superior Sprint Burst, and tunneling off hook already neuters Dead Hard. Having it be denied by Exhaustion is better than applying Exhaustion, because I can use Mindbreaker or any other Exhaustion add-on or perk to counter it. It gives Killers MORE counterplay by having it work the current way.
That's really not how sabotages work, if the survivor knows what they are doing. Survivors can just wait for the killer to get near a hook, background player in front of them if necessary, and with Alex's toolbox + speed addons, they get a free hook sabotage. And when survivors do that, then the killer is often forced to drop the survivor.
And sometimes I've seen a survivor sabotage a hook, then run in front of the killer while the killer tries to get to the next hook… and the survivor sabotages that hook too. There's just not enough risk involved, when Alex's toolbox + speed addons are used.
And for reals, there's no such thing as the "superior Sprint Burst". Dead hard is in the top 10 perks, so don't bother trying to convince me that it's a weak perk.
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@Peanits said:
These are fair concerns to have. I'd strongly suggest trying it out on the PTB if you're able to and pushing it to the limits. If it does turn out to be problematic, that's the best time for us to find out!
We expressed concerns that Alex toolbox + speed addons allows a survivor to take a hit, sabotage a hook in the killer’s face, and move away before the killer could swing again…… and that still hasn’t been addressed.
And now we’re going to be forced to deal with 100% iron will again, which I already know is going to be awful because I’ve already experienced 100% iron will in the past. Why do many killer perks need to have limited durations, and other large restrictions, but it’s cool if Iron will and calm spirit can have unlimited durations? Why is it cool that in most matches, Distortion might as well have unlimited durations if the survivor tries a bit to avoid the aura perks Distortion revealed to them (I.e. hiding in a locker before a survivor gets hooked, if Distortion revealed BBQ)?
Perks like off the record are healthy for the game, because the stealth component has a limited duration. At the very least, iron will should inflict exhaustion, so survivors can’t just combo it with dead hard, and mostly bypass the exhaustion restriction.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744605#Comment_3744605
I don't think it is enough and I don't think it is appropriate to leave the gap open in any way, as it will always result in a feeling of it beeing unfair, because the other players have something I cannot access.
If we agree that inequality of opportunity is always an issue when it comes to tools being available to the players then there is no "enough" while it is not fully closed... If you played a game with voice chat, but 25% of players, decided randomly game by game just did not have that feature, don't you think that would be seen as an issue? It won't necessarily cost you the game but it sure is annoying that some people have access to it and others don't.
BHVR said that the game will never be balanced around voice communication.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744581#Comment_3744581
I would assume that majority of soloQ players don't fall under those two categories, so it is not really relevant for that point is it?
Adressing sich playstyles that are ineffective and not wanted has nothing to do with the issue at hand... There are several other ways to get rid of them, either by being reportable, by being taught that you should not do that stuff or by some other way of social control. This however has nothing to do with the gap in potential information between a group of players on coms and soloQ who don't have the option to communicate in any way.
Yeah great those things might help Adress those problematic playstyles, however this has nothing to do with the information gap between those two groups of players...
The information gap has been addressed enough. Solo q survivors have been given extra information already, and it is enough.
Yes, there is still an information gap. But the goal never was to fully close the communication gap. The goal was to evaluate the communication gap, and give some free information, which BHVR already did.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744457#Comment_3744457
Of course it matters that is harder to work as a team, like how could it be otherwise... If teamwork is the issue then the accessability of teamwork is what it comes down to...
Well I disagree on that, I don't think there should be groups of players that don't have the same tools at hand, that just leads to things being fine against one group but maybe busted against another one... For example if Legion actually was like it was presented in the trailer: able to pretend to be a survivor, completely useless when there is communication involved, but possible when not... It gets made less reasonable with the HUD already, but just to give a general example of a situations where it matters a lot and no amount of game sense can make up for it.
Accessibility of teamwork isn't the problem, because lone wolf survivors and ragequitters aren't playing selfishly because of the lack of communication.
Any solutions to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF, should have the PRIMARY GOAL of addressing lone wolf survivors or ragequitters. Things like harsher DC penalties, a special queue for frequent ragequitters, nerfs to lone wolf perks like sole survivor and wake up…. those things have the primary goal of addressing lone wolf survivors or ragequitters.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744321#Comment_3744321
Like I said before.. Obviously... People tend to not complain about duos... So when they complain they call it swf but mean 4 mens on coms…like I said before, people use it like synonyms.
Equality of opportunity was not achieved by those things... Considering it also in parts buffed swf... The information gap still exists... Lack of teamwork is a result of lack of information though, it is way harder to work as a team without communication...
It doesn't matter if it's harder to work as a team without communication. The primary reason for the gap between solo q and SWF ISN'T that solo q is less efficient at teamwork. The primary reason for the gap are the players that aren't even trying to work as a team.
And it's fine if there is still an information gap between solo q and "4-SWFs with voice comms that are specifically using voice comms for extra game advantages". It would be much healthier for the game, if changes were made to actually encourage survivors to work as a team, even if it nerfs some of the lone wolf survivor strategies.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744056#Comment_3744056
Obviously, but most people use those synonym… so it dos not relaly matter much which one gets used.
Once again, I'm not talking about equality of outcome, but equality of opportunity… And no that gap has not been adressed…
It's not "obviously" because the majority of SWFs only include 2 people, that might not be using voice comms. 4-SWFs that are all using voice comms, and are using the voice comms for extra game advantages, are a very small percentage of the SWFs that play this game.
Equality of opportunity was already addressed with the Survivor HUD, and also by the anti-face camp changes and anti-3 gen changes. That should be enough for now. We've finally reached a point where the primary issue is no longer revolving around solo q's lack of information. It's fine for something else (lack of teamwork) to be a more important issue for Solo q.
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Billy was only allowed to be buffed, because his movement ability is an outdated clunky mess, that makes it really easy to miss his M2. If Billy was updated to have the same quality of life movement as Blight (moving your mouse quickly makes an automatic 90 degree turn, and after a small delay, additional movement can turn beyond 90 degrees), then Billy would need to be severely nerfed, because it would be way too easy to land his M2 hits.
It’s absolutely ridiculous that during Billy’s curve window, that I have to move my mouse in small millimeters, or Billy’s turning flies off uncontrollably.
It would have been a much better rework, if they had instead updated his movement to be more like Blight, so he would be way more accessible, and much easier to play.
And Billy was also nerfed with the new update, because he moves so fast during Overdrive, that survivors can often just crouch behind an object and be safe. And yes, comp survivors will do this sometimes, so it’s not a “skill issue” problem.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743762#Comment_3743762
Why not both, why not give soloq the same tools swf has while also addressing the issue of people playing selfish.
The gap between solo q and SWF has already been addressed well enough. For the majority of the players, solo q and SWF are off by less than 3%.
4 Survivors at high MMR, are a very small percentage of the player base. Most of SWFs are only 2 players, and they might not even be using voice comms.
We need to address the fact that when many people use the word SWF, they don’t actually mean SWF. What they really mean is voice comms. People are asking for the game to be balanced around voice comms. -
I really hate the lore more than anything else. This killer is cosplaying a character from her dad’s manga. And instead of having a mechanical suit, or anything else that looks like it cost a lot of money, she slapped a cheap looking Wolverine claw onto her arm, then used her 1980’s BeDazzler machine to BeDazzle jewels onto her mask, and decided that was a good cosplay outfit.
She’s literally a millionaire, and that was the best cosplay outfit she could make.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743553#Comment_3743553
Well you will never know if you don't try, but when they would do that anyway you might as well give it a shot. If people don't want to do their best that is fine, it is not like you gain anything out of an escape in this game anyway.
Oh no poor bhvr needing to moderate a voice chat… Come on man, there is a mute function for exactly that reason, every other game also manages to provide a voice and text chat and those companies also don't cry about having to pay people to moderate stuff… To have such features is the bare minimum you can expect in an online coop game.
Maybe you took a bad example there, but if that person seriously never touched a gen in 5 min, never was in chase for the entirety of the game even though everybody else is on death hook, then that person kind of is the reason they are losing the game, because next someone of the 3 remaining guys is about to die on hook and then it is a 3 v 1… which could have been avoided if that person did their job of taking a hookstage/chase…
It is easy to only focus on all the bad things that could happen and fully neglect the benefits of having communication.
The whole point is that anything BHVR does to close the gap between solo q and SWF, should primarily revolve around addressing the lone wolf survivors and ragequit survivors, because they are the main reason the gap exists.
Giving solo q more information doesn't address that problem. The benefits of having more communication, would help the survivors that want to work together, way more than it would encourage the lone wolves and ragequitters to be team players. And that's why it's a bad solution.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743299#Comment_3743299
I would still say that it is way easier to work around such things with communication, you can get your teams help in completing the tome challenge. Rage quitting becomes less likely when you can Rel on your team because they have your back and a lone wolf in a coop game is not something that should be wanted, because that guy can potentially ruin the game for everybody else.
I don't think their statement was true at all and even if it was it would still not be a reason to not close the information gap, not having the same tools will always be viewed as a two class system, no matter if it changes the outcome.
If someone wants to ragequit or lone wolf, you likely aren’t going to be able to “talk it out”, and convince them to change their mind.
The more likely scenario is that when a player gets frustrated with their solo q teammates, they’ll very loudly yell bad things about them, and let them know they are ragequitting because of how bad they are. Then the teammates will start yelling back, and people will try to report each other for bad language, and BHVR will be stuck with sifting through a whole bunch of voice chat related ban requests.And the more likely scenario for lone wolf survivors, and their teammates will try very loudly yelling stuff like “why haven’t I seen you touch a generator in the past 5 minutes”, and “why are 3 of us on death hook, and we haven’t seen you in a chase even once this whole game”, and “are you just sitting in a corner waiting for us to die”? But, of course, more swearing will be involved. And then the lone wolf survivor will will start swearing back, and they’ll report each other, to get each other banned for bad language. Or the lone wolf survivor will stay silent, and just report the other players for verbal harassment.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742401#Comment_3742401
Well the devs denied that in a rather recent reddit FAQ and stated that it is not communication but coordination and willingness to take one for the team, which is not there for solos... Which is a completely useless statement, considering that communication allows for coordination and benefits altruism, because you can coordinate it easier... As you may or may not know, nobody believed their statement, as it is fairly obvious that it is nonsense and a sad excuse to not introduce new mechanics to close the gap in information and communication between solo and swf, because according to them lack of information is not the deciding factor when it comes to success :)
I believed that statement from BHVR. Solo q is more likely to have lone wolf survivors and rage quitters, which can reduce the escape rate of the rest of the survivors. Solo q is also more likely to have a lone survivor that is throwing the game to complete a rift challenge, even though the other 3 players actually want to win the match.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742014#Comment_3742014
I guess BHVR will only "notice" this bug when some cc like Otzdarva complains about it.
@Coffeecrashing said:
Killers are forbidden to lunge if they are too close to a survivor. It doesn't matter if a killer is holding a direction and the M1 button at the same time, because the game will force a short M1 tap attack if the killer tries to attack while right next to a survivor.
I'd even claim that many of the aim dressing complaints involve this short M1 tap bug, because if a killer is expecting to be able to do a full lunge attack, and they purposely turn their camera toward an object because lunges have zero object collision (and therefore they are expecting to be able to curve around objects with their lunge), that when the killer is forced into a short M1 tap attack, they can easily hit an object next to them and think the problem was aim dressing.
BHVR should also look into the possibility that the game might be forcing short M1 tap attacks, even though the survivor might be out of range by the time the hit validation snapshots are taken, which means that the forced short M1 tap attack might be stealing a hit, because the killer could have reached the survivor if they were allowed to lunge attack.
That is the bug report, that was made in May of 2023. It's still "under review".
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@solarjin1 said:
He basically said killers should have different base regression depending on strength. His example
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JBAC3XXSZMN1/screenshot-20240616-155633-chrome.jpg
He want the devs to rank them in tiers essentially...
That doesn't work, because the devs made it very clear that different killers can perform differently in different MMR levels. This especially won't work if the plan was to balance it around 6,000+ hour competitive DBD tier lists, which affects like 0.0001% of the playerbase. The vast majority of the players are average MMR, and they need to be considered.
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@Digfish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741968#Comment_3741968
This seems like it could be the likely culprit. It does feel like a lot of the time I may be missing because it does a short hit rather than a lunge. Do we know what triggers it? Or is it just random?
The game makes proximity checks to see if the killer is allowed to lunge, but these proximity checks are completely separate from hit validation checks. So the game can force a killer to make a short M1 attack instead of a lunge… and then tell the killer the hit missed because the survivor was too far away for a short M1 attack.
It's one of the biggest "secret" bugs the game has, and it can steal hits from the killer every single game. But so far, no one from BHVR will comment on it.