Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Mooks said:
it’s chaotic and fun for the time being.
I actually enjoy the scout survivor class (just equipped it because it’s the least chosen one in the queues I’ve been on)
There is an astoundingly high amount of survivors not touching gens at all. Not in every match but I had already two matches where more than half of them weren’t doing gens at all?!? It’s okay though as it’s still fun (and in one of these two matches I got hatch 😋)
It was like that during the 2v8 streams too. Sometimes, 4 people were picking the medic class, and it seemed like all 4 of them wanted to run to every cage to help survivors.
…Meanwhile, there might only be 1 survivor in the entire lobby choosing the generator class, and there was often 0-1 people repairing even though all 8 survivors were still alive.
So it turns out that having broken class abilities like the scout’s killer aura reveal, ends up hurting the survivors, because most survivors want to try out the new broken abilities, instead of repairing generstors.
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A note for BHVR, please check if Stridor is being calculated after all the survivor sound perks. Because changing Stridor to be additive, only helps against perks like Iron Will, if Stridor is the last calculation.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766520#Comment_3766520
I've tested it with Iron Will, then with Off The Record, and then without both of them while using Stridor. I still don't hear any grunts of pain when the survivor is injured and has one of those perks. But when the survivor has no Iron Will or Off The Record or is healthy and I use Stridor then yes the survivor's sounds are slightly louder but not like before - iirc, I've never used Stridor before.
I know the developers told us in their dev update that the updated Stridor is suppose to counter these two perks (which is already stupid) but I does not. So either it is a bug or it is intended because they changed their plans or there was a miscommunication.
The probably made the perk additive, but forgot that Stridor needs to be calculated AFTER all of the survivor sound perks.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/421500/stridor-has-not-changed
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3766488#Comment_3766488
I've tested it in a custom game (same survivor on the same map): If the survivor has either Off The Record or Iron Will active and the killer has Stridor, then you still don't hear any grunts of pain from the survivor. However, the updated Stridor works: The breathing sounds and grunts of pain are louder and work different then before the update but Stridor neither counter Off The Record or Iron Will.
I cannot say if this is intended or a bug that Stridor does not increase the grunts of pain from IW/OTR users. I really don't know what the developers do or how they come up with such ideas, but they have to stop. Stridor is still a useless Perk and needs a rework while Iron Will needs a different buff but not this one.
Stridor is supposed to work on iron will and off the record, even if they are used at the same time.
The game SHOULD be calculating Stridor last, because it’s additive.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
I would argue Jailer is the best because he can keep a survivor of gens for almost 30 seconds. And if you chase someone else than half the team isn’t sitting on gens. I win a lot of my games by using jailer to just pressure survivors cross map.
The problem with Jailer is if you’re trying to chase a survivor, and Jailer fails to start a hunt, then you’re locked out of your power for 34 seconds.
The patrol durations are way too long, and “you can just M1 a guard” doesn’t help if you’re trying to chase a survivor, and the guard isn’t anywhere near you.
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Survivors just need to have MMR adjustments numbers (i.e. +5 MMR points in a 2-SWF, or +50 MMR points in a 4-SWF) for SWFs. And these adjustment numbers are based on how much their win rate changes when they are in a SWF.
This would mean that no one is “punished for playing with friends”. But it does mean that if someone’s win rate is much higher in a SWF, that the game recognizes that, and places them in more difficult matches when they are in a SWF.
It also means that if someone truly is “just playing with friends”, and doesn’t have a higher win rate in a SWF, then this mechanic won’t do anything to them.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765800#Comment_3765800
No delays I have waited 2vs8 long enough. You just have to sweat more with the bug I win many games multiple gens left so it's not big issue for me. T
No, the game is unplayable now. When entire generators can be instantly auto-repaired from 0% to 100%, the game balance doesn't exist anymore. I've witnessed streamers purposely not complete a 4th generator until a teammate dies (as in sometimes they purposely leave the 4th generator at 99% until a teammate dies), so they can bypass the 5th generator completely.
And it would be worse in 2v8, since there are more survivors in the game that could trigger the bug.
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I hope 2v8 is delayed until the hotfix happens, because the generator bug is extreme enough that there’s no point in playing this game while it’s still happening.
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BHVR should have removed shack from the Badham maps a long time ago.
SWFs like to send me to this map, with a “basement in shack” offering, because it forces the main building to be without a basement, which means parts of the basement aren’t in range of hooks.
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BHVR should have removed shack from the Badham maps a long time ago.
SWFs like to send me to this map, with a “basement in shack” offering, because it forces the main building to be without a basement, which means parts of the basement aren’t in range of hooks.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764608#Comment_3764608
It's not worst-case scenario, it's a realistic expectation for this community. If the consequence of time meant anything to people who rage quit, they wouldn't bother playing in the first place. Going AFK is reportable, yes, but it isn't going to stop them from doing it.
Figuring out the legitimate reasons is crucial. You have no way of knowing what percentage of rage quits have legitimate reasons. Anti-rage quitting solutions are a waste of time, because the people who rage quit aren't merely doing it out of convenience.
I agree that it isn't realistic for BHVR to focus on survivor game balance problems before tackling other problems, but I disagree that bypassing the DC penalty is a major game issue. I think this is just a case of people remembering the games where it did happen more prominently than the games where it didn't happen.
People who ask themselves if their reason for rage quitting is justified were never going to rage quit to begin with. People who rage quit don't care about the consequences. The only thing stopping them from disconnecting is that the timer increases with every disconnect. If they only had to eat a 5 minute penalty each time? Guarantee they'd just disconnect instead.
According to your logic, it should be fine if killers were given a quick and easy way to ragequit that bypasses the DC penalties, because the only people that would use it, were going to ragequit no matter that the consequences are. Perhaps the killer could open the exit gates whenever they want, but if they open the exit gates early, then all 4 survivors automatically escape, regardless if they were dead or alive beforehand?
Because really, it doesn't matter if a killer goes AFK, or if they open the exit gates super early, because both actions results in a ruined game for the rest of the players. And if the ruined games were going to happen anyway, then why not allow killers a way to bypass DC penalties too?
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764479#Comment_3764479
Which is why I said it's important to understand why the majority of survivors who are rage quitting are doing it. The trigger reason is important if you want to avoid ending up at square one again.
People who rage quit are never going to ask themselves the question of whether or not it's justified. Again, clearly these people want to play the game but there are certain reasons they choose not to participate instead. Figuring out what the legitimate reasons are is crucial to preventing more of the same, just with a different method.
There's still no consequence if they choose to afk. There's still no consequence if they immediately throw themselves at the killer after being unhooked. Are we going to then insist that those players need to be punished too, when it becomes a problem?
The automatic consequence for going AFK is time. And going AFK is reportable, and those players should be reported and punished.
And figuring out the legitimate reasons is not crucial, because most of the reasons aren't legitimate. I think a bunch of people on these forums want to hold anti-ragequitting solutions hostage, and demand that certain survivor game balance issues need to be addressed before BHVR is allowed to make anti-ragequitting solutions.
…That isn't realistic, and doesn't address the fact that being able to quickly bypass DC penalties is literally a major game problem by itself. Yes, there are people that will ask themselves if ragequitting is justified, if they not longer have a quick way to bypass DC penalties. Everyone isn't the worst case scenario. Everyone isn't 100% determined to ragequit regardless of the consequences.
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764479#Comment_3764479
The trigger reason is very important. There are a plethora of circumstances that make Survivors want to leave a certain match, but mecca summarizes it nicely in their comment above. I'll quote it here in case you missed it:
The problem is simple: the game is too unbalanced and it's too much decided in the first minute. While killers have the luxury of coming back from bad starts, survivors don't. If a Blight has downed several before a single Gen is completed, survivors can't win.
The killrates are too high. Survivors often go matches after match facing the same inevitable loss. In essence: there is not much skill expression for survivors to control the outcome. So the whole problem is the game feels unwinnable because it often is.
That doesn't summarize the problem nicely. Kill rates aren't a problem that need to be solved. And it doesn't address the fact that both sides of the game sometimes feel like their games are unwinnable, which means that problem isn't solely caused by kill rates.
And framing game balance as "stuff that happens at the start of the game", isn't fair to both sides. If the killer in the game is stomping the survivors, then yes, there might be multiple hooks near the start of the game. But if the survivors are stomping the killers, the issue isn't identified right away. It's more like the killer spends a bunch of time not being able to hook anyone, which can't be determined at the start of the game. Also, this is basically the same issue as the other paragraph, where survivors sometimes think games aren't winnable… and again, killers also feel some games aren't winnable, so this isn't a survivor-only problem.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764345#Comment_3764345
That's not why they're doing it, though.
Your average player isn't rage quitting nearly enough for it to be a problem. I can count on one hand the amount of times I have witnessed someone attempting to give up on first hook in 1600 hours of total playtime.
The goal isn't reducing the likelihood that your average player will rage quit, because your average player might rage quit once out of a hundred games. The goal is to reduce the occurrence of rage quitting, which just isn't feasible if you don't understand why people are doing it to begin with.
It being easy to bypass the DC penalty fails to explain any sort of reasoning behind why survivors are choosing to end their match early.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764355#Comment_3764355
It would be easier for them to simply not play, so that just doesn't add up. Clearly these people still want to play the game, but there's some reason they don't want to participate in certain matches.
A lot of the ragequits happen for unacceptable reasons that BHVR should never try to fix. Maybe the survivor hates all killers that can go undetectable. Maybe the survivor was found by the killer near the beginning of the game. There could be any number of unacceptable reasons why survivors ragequit.
The trigger reason isn't important though. The important thing is when a survivor can quickly go to the next game, with zero consequences to themselves, they don't need to actually ask themselves "is my reason for wanting to ragequit good enough to justify ragequitting"?
But if there wasn't any ways for a survivor to quickly go to the next game without any consequences to themselves, the survivor would actually need to ask themselves if their reason for wanting to ragequit is good enough to 1) potentially be stuck with long periods of time on a hook, or 2) suffer a DC penalty, or 3) potentially be stuck in the match for a while if they go AFK.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764305#Comment_3764305
I'm not advocating for rage quitting. I'm simply against adding mechanics that aren't going to solve the problem, because people will find ways to circumvent the system, then people will complain about that too.
If someone really doesn't want to participate in the match that badly, I'd rather not have them in the match at all.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764126#Comment_3764126
Killers don't get a quick and easy way to ragequit because of how their objective works, and the fact that there's only one of them per match. Please stop framing this as if killer players are somehow missing out.
Making it less convenient for survivors to rage quit will only serve to reduce the likelihood of your average player doing it. It isn't solving the problem. It's just making it less convenient, and the same people complaining about it now will complain again about how the problem hasn't been solved.
The people who give up on first hook are now more likely to just AFK. They'd DC, but they still want to be able to play the game. They just don't want to participate in certain matches. Can't remove DC penalties because it messes with statistics. The only way to solve the problem is to first address why the majority of players who do this are doing it.
The reason "why the majority of players who do this are doing it" is because there is a quick and easy way to ragequit that bypasses the DC penalties. That's literally the reason. It's quick, it's easy, and there's zero penalties or consequences for the person doing this.
And, Yes! Reducing the likelihood of your average player ragequitting, is literally the goal here. That's it. Reducing the ragequitting problem. That is a good enough reason to implement these suggestions.
And it doesn't matter if the problem isn't completely solved. That's not a requirement. Yes, someone might decide to AFK, but that is the worst case scenario, and not the most likely scenario.
Do you understand that when a survivor ragequits early, in ways that bypass the DC penalties, that it massively lowers the survivor team's chances of survival? It doesn't matter if a survivor quickly cycles through hook states, or goes AFK, because the end result is that the rest of the survivors are at a massive disadvantage. Therefore, reducing the number of survivors that bypass the DC penalties, should be a high priority for BHVR.
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@Rumplestiltskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762983#Comment_3762983
Sure you do. Remove the ability to attempt a self-unhook short of a Perk like Deliverance. That way they stay on the hook until the end or the DC and give their team a Bot. It is a simple, fair solution and would not take much coding. Nobody relies on the 4%. I don't recall the last time I saw anyone using Slippery Meat. Make self unhooks entirely Perk based, otherwise you wait for someone to unhook you or until you die. Just like any other DC you can depart the game.
*If you want to be NICE you can simply remove the lockout penalty for those that DC on the hook. I don't see that as necessary but you could do that. A Bot is better than nothing. Time on the hook for other Survivors to do things is better than nothing. If people don't want to play the game, they should not que up. The time it takes to die on the hook is not unreasonable.
I agree with this. Yes, survivors could still run to the killer, but it’s way less convenient, because they would be stuck on the hook until someone saves them, or until the hook timer runs out. And if the hook skill checks are also removed, then survivors would be stuck on the hook during both hook stages.
The important thing is it would be way less convenient than a DC, which is what survivors really should be doing when they rage quit, because it replaces them with a bot.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764049#Comment_3764049
I never said anything about the game dying, though? You can't force someone to participate in a game they don't want to. People will just find other ways to circumvent the system, which puts us back at square one with a change that only serves to make it ever so slightly less convenient for someone to rage quit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764048#Comment_3764048
Winning and Losing are end results. You seem to be misunderstanding something here. Normal gameplay does not refer to ideal gameplay. It refers to the normal gameplay loop in which four survivors need to repair 5 generators to activate the exit gates and escape the killer.
Someone giving up on first hook in no way prevents the survivors from repairing generators in an effort to escape. It also doesn't prevent the killer from hooking the remaining survivors. It's unlikely that the survivors will win, but not impossible. You would have this same problem with:
- AFK Survivor
- Throwing Survivor
- Baby Survivor
Do you understand that killers don't have a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalties, and killers can "just find other ways to circumvent the system", and most of the games are still fine?
The same would apply to survivors, if you removed their quick and easy ways to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalties. There absolutely are survivors that are only ragequitting, specifically because there is a quick and easy way to do so, that bypasses the DC penalties. Those are the people that would be affected by this change. That is why this solution would successfully reduce the amount of survivor ragequitting.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763840#Comment_3763840
Killers don't have a way to quit without bypassing the DC penalty because the role and how you play it is fundamentally different from the survivor role. One person disconnecting on the survivor side lowers the chances of winning, but it doesn't actually prevent anyone from participating in normal gameplay. It's the same as someone giving up on first hook. It reduces the chances of winning, but beyond that doesn't actually prevent anyone from playing out the match normally.
Survivors are able to DC every game, but thanks to DC penalties increasing the more you do it, there's just no point in doing it. It's the same for killer.
It's better for the game that survivors can't rage quit until you realize that all the people who don't want to participate will find other ways to circumvent the system, bringing us back to square one.
The point is that even though you "can't force someone to play the game", DBD still survives as a game, even though killers don't have a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalties.
And therefore, the game will still survive even if survivors aren't able to quickly ragequit, in ways that bypass the DC penalties.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763492#Comment_3763492
It's not the same thing, and a survivor being facecamped is unable to participate in normal gameplay. They are forced into a state of non-participation, which is why there's a mechanic to prevent it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763491#Comment_3763491
DC Penalties do, in fact, force players to stay in a game. Removing non-guaranteed self-unhooks, alongside 2nd stage hook skill checks is also forcing players to stay in a game. If someone does not want to participate any longer, you cannot force them. I would rather be down a teammate than be lumped with someone who's deliberately throwing.
Players engaging in unsportsman-like conduct may be reportable, but it's not going to stop them from doing it.
It's literally not though. There's no one hovering over a player's shoulder, to physically restrain them if they try to DC. Survivors are literally able to DC every single game, because nothing is actually forcing them to stay in the game.
And killers don't have a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalties, and the game still survives. Yes, there are some killers that DC, and some killers that AFK, but overall it's better for the game that killers don't have a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalties.
…And the same should apply to survivors. The game would be overall better if the quick and easy ways to ragequit, that bypass the DC penalties, are removed from the game for survivors.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763629#Comment_3763629
right but I feel killers don't give up as much survivors do there just games as killer you want out fast but not all the time even if they get 1k or 4man out.
what I'm saying is there a bigger chance for the killer sticking it out more then survivors on a losing game.
One of the big reasons why killers don’t give up as much as survivors, is because killers don’t have a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses DC penalties.
If killers were able to open exit gates whenever they wanted to, which would allow them to quickly get out of a game without a DC penalty, then you would see way more killers ragequitting.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763364#Comment_3763364
Not the same thing, at all. A mechanic that stops killers from playing in a way that forces someone to be unable to participate in normal gameplay is not the same as forcing someone to stay in a match they don't want to be in.
A survivor who's forced to stay in a match they don't want to be in will either afk, or they'll just sabotage the rest of the team.
DC penalties don’t force players to stay in a game. My suggestions for removing non-guaranteed self unhooks, and removing 2nd stage hook skill checks, also don’t force players to stay in a game. Never have I ever said people should be forced to stay in a game.
And if players go AFK or sabotage their team, that is reportable. We shouldn’t avoid making game improvements, because rule breakers might break rules.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763450#Comment_3763450
Sure… you can do that. But people STILL will not want to play the match. You don't have to say it, this is simply the way it is. It may make it more inconvenient but the end result will be the same.
" I never claimed this will 100% work for every ragequitter that has ever existed" - it wont work for anyone who truly wants out of the match. Why do you people not understand this lol?!
The result won’t be the same for everyone. There are people that ragequit specifically because there is a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalties.
And if we take away that quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypasses the DC penalty, then it would reduce the amount of people that are ragequitting in ways that bypass the DC penalty.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763416#Comment_3763416
No, DC penalties do not force people to play the game, they just make them find other ways to not participate in the match so they can avoid DC penalties.
You can change all the rules and hook mechanics you want, you STILL will not be able to make someone want to actively participate in a match they don't want to be in.
I am not advocating for them either, I just do not see how you cant see it is an exercise in extreme futility regardless of what mechanics you change?!
I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about forcing people to play the game. I don’t know why you keep repeatedly mentioning this.
What I am saying is that it is currently way too quick and convenient to ragequit and bypass DC penalties, by purposely attempting self unhooks, then purposely failing the hook skill checks.
What I am saying is if those things are removed from hooks, it would be much more inconvenient to ragequit in ways that bypass the DC penalty, which would encourage some of the ragequitters to play the game instead.
And again, I never claimed this will 100% work for every ragequitter that has ever existed. No one is claiming that. It’s not a thing.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763364#Comment_3763364
Suggestions on how you make another human play out a match they don't want to play? You can add all the mechanics you want to but if someone does not want to participate, there is literally nothing you can do to stop that.
You can however create mechanics to deter someone from actively participating in ways that negatively effect the game for others, you can do this when people refuse to participate.
The DC penalties literally help reduce ragequitting, even though “you can’t force people to play the game”.
And if DC penalties help reduce ragequitting, then there are other things that can help reduce ragequitting.
Therefore, BHVR should try things like changing the hook rules, to remove not-guaranteed self unhooks, and remove skill checks from hooks.
And the rules can be adjusted. For example, maybe it is ok for 2nd stage hooks to have skill checks if only 2 survivors are left. And it’s certainly ok for guaranteed self unhooks to happen, like from the deliverance perk and the anti-face camp mechanic.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
As Peanits said, you cant force people to stay in matches they don't want to stay in no matter what you do.
I honestly don't see how they can fix this
You can’t force killers to stop facecamping, but BhVR still made an anti facecamp mechanic. You can’t force killers to stop making 3-gens, but BHVR still made an anti 3-gen mechanic.
Similarity, you can’t stop survivors from ragequitting, but BHVR can still implement an anti ragequitting mechanic.
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@CrypticGirl said:
Peanits already acknowledges that removing the 4% won't stop people from giving up in a match, so I don't get why people are still suggesting it.
Removing the 4%, and the missed skill check time penalty, won’t stop people from giving up, but it would make it much more inconvenient to give up without an actual DC.
As in, the purpose is to discourage ragequitting, and not to completely stop it. DC ragequiting is better than non-DC ragequitting, because survivors can only do this a limited amount of times in a short time period, and it replaces the survivor with a bot.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763237#Comment_3763237
Like I said before, the "kobe" needs to stay
It doesn't need to stay. It's healthier for the game to have these removed, to reduce the amount of ragequitting.
If it's totally ok to make killers deal with an anti-facecamp mechanic and anti 3gen mechanic, then it should be fine to nerf survivors with this anti ragequit mechanic. New mechanics don't always need to be killer nerfs or survivor buffs…. it's fine if a new mechanic involves a survivor nerf.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763149#Comment_3763149
What people dont want is the removal of the "kobe" attempts. These need to stay
Most of people demanding suicides to be impossible in DBD are the same that also ask perks such as Slippery Meat and the luck mechanic (Up The Ante) to be reworked
One of the biggest problems with ragequitting is that it's so easy for survivors to bypass the DC penalty and quickly get out of a game. Removing a survivor's ability to quickly go through hook stages, makes it much less convenient to bypass the DC penalty.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
Regarding the self-hooks issue, the simplest way around that problem is to keep the unhook attempts, but a failed unhook does not result in a reduction of the timer.
Of course, it's been said many times in this thread, but if someone doesn't want to play, they'll find a way around it somehow. Best thing you can do is report anything that looks like the player is throwing the game with video evidence. If people dod that then - sure - one report isn't going to do much, but if the same person is repeatedly having reports against them with video evidence to prove a pattern of behaviour, the BHVR may be able to do more about it.
The quickest way to lower the number of ragequits is to remove unguaranteed self unhook attempts in stage 1, and don't have a timer penalty for missing a skill check in stage 2.
This would push the message that if survivors wanted to ragequit, it is much more efficient to DC, which has DC penalties to help limit it.
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The only real solution requires a playback feature for matches, so that people could actually view the game through the perspective of the accused player, and check if that player really was ragequitting. And BHVR would also have to be ok with the giant avalanche of video reports being sent their way.
Perhaps the video playback submissions would only be valid for a ranked mode, since it would be a more serious mode, that actually encourages survivors to work together, and discourages the lone wolf stuff.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762943#Comment_3762943
Yeah that does kinda sound exactly like it tbh
"Survivors spend an average of one minute being chased throughout the match, throwing somewhere between one and two pallets in the process."
I know this sounds indecisive for me to keep going back and forth on this issue, but the above sentence is talking about chase time and number of pallets thrown, and we know the pallets being thrown is a "per survivor" stat. Wouldn't that mean the chase time of one minute is also a "per survivor" stat, or does it mean the dev's sentence was really awkwardly worded?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762922#Comment_3762922
I'm not sure there's any way to actually see if those concerns are valid though.
Chase times are probably the closest. Even if they turbo pre-run, they might be getting an extra ten seconds before chase starts. Any more than that and they hid because they heard a TR.
As for pallets, yeah, I don't know. You can't just measure pallets broken during a match. Maybe pallets broken during a chase, +3 second buffer period?
The most useful stats for chases would be “average amount of time chasing survivors per game” at average MMR and high MMR.
The most useful stats for pallets would be “average number of pallets dropped per game” at average and high MMR.
Edit: “Survivors spend an average of one minute being chased throughout the match, throwing somewhere between one and two pallets in the process.”
…..So maybe the stats really are what I’ve listed above (except divided by 4)?
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762904#Comment_3762904
The point is it's "per chase from the view of the game", which means, I think, is that every time a killer breaks a pallet or walk around a long loop, it will drop the chase
So I believe this basically means more like "chase time per god window/pallet" in some circumstance
Oh, that makes way more sense!
It also means these stats don’t really help with answering questions about concerns killers might have.
If killers have a concern that chase times are too long, they are talking about the total time they are chasing after survivors, but these stats just show actual “game considers it a chase” times.
If killers have a concern that survivors at just pre-dropping lots of pallets and running away, and it’s too many pallets per game….. then giving us an average of pallets per chase doesn’t help much, especially when the game’s definition of chase often results is one real chase being broken apart into multiple separate chases.
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Is anyone else surprised at the pallet stats? So if I’m somewhere between average MMR and high MMR, my games would have an average of 6.0 to 6.4 dropped pallets?
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Are these stats actually counting the total length of time survivors are actually being chased, or is it just the length of time the game considers the survivors in chase?
Because I could see a survivor 30 yards away, and run towards them as killer, and the survivor could immediately run away… and it would take a while before I’m close enough for the game to consider us in chase. But I am, in fact, chasing the survivor before the game considers us in chase.
Edit: A dev answered this question as I was typing this post. lol
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@ArthurFiNCH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762353#Comment_3762353
But it doesn't make any sense. If the game rewards you for a stun that means that you stunned the killer, then how do I still get hit? It's clearly an issue without and logic explanation.
The best solution would be to remove the score event if the stun doesn’t happen, so that it doesn’t confuse players.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762354#Comment_3762354
We'll see how they implement it. They didn't mention any 0.2 sec delay in the revised patch notes.
How exactly do you think the "holding the button to auto aim" feature is supposed to work? The button press needs to be long enough so that people that want manual mode aren't accidentally triggering auto aim.
We know (because of the way button inputs work in this game) that Singularity will need to have the button not pressed, then turn to face a biopod, then hold the button. The "holding the button" needs to be a delay before the auto aim starts happening, so that people that want manual mode aren't having the camera yanked away from them.
There's also the whole point that auto-aim DESERVES to have a delay, for the sake of game balance. If survivors are going to complain that auto-aim is too strong, there needs to be something like a delay on auto-aim, that BHVR can adjust, so that manual mode players aren't being punished because auto-aim exists.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762011#Comment_3762011
Yes. I corrected myself in the previous comment.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762013#Comment_3762013
That's a different topic that is irrelevant to this thread.
You didn't correct yourself. As far as we know, auto-aim is supposed to take 0.2 seconds longer than manual aim, and BHVR is placing that 0.2 second delay on holding a button before the camera mode happens. Auto-aim should have a small delay on it, so that it's not a giant buff for a large portion of the playerbase. Auto-aim is supposed to be a quality of life improvement for console players. It's not supposed to be a major buff, that is massively faster than manual mode for the vast majority of PC players.
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@ArthurFiNCH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762316#Comment_3762316
"You got hit way before the pallet was near 50% dropped. Pallet stuns don't happen immediately after a pallet starts to drop. The pallet has to go down to something like 50% before the game considers it a pallet stun." - You can see in the top right corner that I got points for pallet stun in the same frame that UI switches my icon to be downed.
It doesn't matter if you got points for a pallet stun. Pallet stuns don't actually register a stun, until the pallet is dropped by around 50%.
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@ArthurFiNCH said:
As in the title, I will also add video.
Situations like this happen all the time and I really have no idea how to deal with them. I feel like that little window of perfectly dropping the pallet before Billy knocks us down or breaks the pallet with the saw has completely disappeared and it's just not possible anymore. The video shows that the timing of dropping the pallet was perfect, and as a result I still get hit by the chainsaw. It looks a bit as if the server had trouble identifying what happened first and consequently - at exactly the same time Billy gets stunned and I get downed.
Your video shows the hit was fine. Look at this screenshot. You got hit way before the pallet was near 50% dropped. Pallet stuns don't happen immediately after a pallet starts to drop. The pallet has to go down to something like 50% before the game considers it a pallet stun.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762103#Comment_3762103
Not only she doesn't need any value from her teammate but Nurse players are clearly not going to be of the tandem type anyway. And rightfully so. It's not like any other killer can manage to keep up pace with the killer able to teleport through assets.
Nurse’s map traversal speed is garbage now. A lot of people seem to forget that Nurse’s map traversal speed was very heavily dependent on the range and recharge addons…. and those have been removed from the game.
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@TheArbiter said:
It's very weird to me that Nurse gets buffed and has no drawbacks while Billy does
To be fair, Nurse is really garbage getting value with the teamwork “perks” that most of the killers have…
Do we really think it’s realistic for Nurse to travel long distances in Wraith’s undetectable range? Do we think it’s realistic for Nurse to get a decent amount of exposed M1 hits (blink attacks not allowed) with Billy’s teamwork perk? Do we really think Nurse will get a lot of value from being able to float slightly faster due to Trapper’s teamwork perk?
And that’s the problem. BHVR made sure all the survivor classes had major opportunities to have great teamwork…. but many of the killer teams just have garbage synergy with their teamwork perks.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3762058#Comment_3762058
Killer have the full set of skills, they are not swappable. We'll be collecting all the feedback we can once the mode is live.
Thank you. I was really looking forward to playing Billy in this game mode, but Im just too disappointed that survivors get all these new and exciting things…. but Billy gets a massive nerf instead.
And if I play killer and get stuck with Trapper as a teammate, that also feels like starting the game with a major disadvantage. Trying to work together as a team with someone that needs to take large detours to manually pick up traps, just feels bad.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3761793#Comment_3761793
I can shed some light on this. 👀 No, these were real matches, the second match you saw wasn't artificially drawn out and was nowhere near 30 minutes.
For full context, we go into these gameplay segments completely blind with a group of players from all different skill levels, some goofing around and having fun while others play more seriously. Our guests have never played the mode before, they have no idea what to expect, so what you see is them experiencing it for the first time. This is great because we want everyone to see their genuine first impressions, but it takes a few matches to warm up as a group and figure out how seriously we should all be playing. Ultimately the goal of these segments is to showcase some of the things you can do, not to flex on each other.
I wouldn't read too far into these exhibition matches, but by all means please do let us know how it feels once it's out! This is the first iteration of 2v8, so there could very well be tweaks that we need to make - time will tell.
I was really hoping you were going to comment on the mass confusing we are having, on whether or not killers get all of the “powers”, or if they have to choose either the left side or the right side of the “powers”?
Because it just feels majorly bad if Billy got a MASSIVE nerf for this game mode, and is forced to have one health state chainsaws in this game mode.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759007#Comment_3759007
A draw also might actually be an MMR gain for Killers, because they killed the 2 players with more MMR than them, and the 2 escapees also had more MMR, thus giving the Killer the largest bump and smallest decrease.
Plus with the softcap of MMR that we know exists (but don't know the strength), we might have a 20 point shift for escape/kill (with reductions divided by 10 due to softcap) for a 1k to end up giving +20 MMR, and -6 (20/20/20 → 2/2/2) MMR, for a net +14 MMR.
Unless the devs become transparent about MMR, all of these fringe claims are meaningless speculation, and assuming an equal '+' for kill and equal '-' for escape is the safest guess.
It’s more likely that killers have a much higher MMR loss if a survivor escapes, than the MMR gain if a survivor dies.
In order to stabilize at a 60% kill rate, a survivor escaping would need to have an MMR loss, that is 1.5 times as much as the MMR gained when a survivor dies. Either that, or something equally as drastic needs to be done to move the kill rate from 50% to 60%.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3761910#Comment_3761910
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3761943#Comment_3761943
It has no impact on balance or delay because if you hold the ability button down the entire game, it will always auto aim. Since the button is always down, no pressing is required, so there is no delay with pressing or input.
You can’t hold the ability button down the entire game, because you can only enter a biopod if you go from “the button not being pressed” to “tapping or holding the button”.
As in, you can’t hold down the button, then turn your camera towards a biopod while the button is already being held down. That’s not how button inputs work in this game.
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Maybe there is a bug, if Singularity tries to teleport right after a survivor breaks line of sight?
The new aim assist might have a bug, where the game considers the killer to be aiming at a survivor for a short period of time after the aiming cursor is no longer on the survivor, even if the survivor broke line of sight. This might cause the aim assist code to allow a teleport to start, but then some other part of the code fails because the survivor isn’t in line of sight?
(That’s my giant wild guess, based on one point of data)
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3761765#Comment_3761765
Making people hold the ability button takes no skill. It just inconveniences people.
Asides from base kit Soma (at 3%), Singularity has barely changed. The vast majority of the changes were quality of life and making it easier to play him rather than buffs.
Making people hold the button for auto-aim allows BHVR to balance auto aim without punishing killers that want to use manual mode.
Requiring killers to hold a button to use manual mode, adds a delay for them to use manual mode, which would be a nerf for manual mode. It’s better for the delay to exist for auto-aim, so that BHVR could easily adjust the delay time if auto-aim turns out to be too powerful and needs a bit of a nerf.
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@ad19970 said:
Even the newer maps and map reworks still have tiles that are strong and safe. I am not sure where the 90% is coming from in that case. They certainly have been making new tiles that are overly unsafe, that I agree with, but I feel like the amount of unsafe pallets that exist on most maps according to some is a bit exaggerated.
A lot of people want maps to have many pallets that can be 100% safely chained into each other, with a 0% chance a M1 killer could do anything about it.
The whole double standard is that it’s 100% fine if tiles exist with zero counter play for M1 killers, but it’s unacceptable if tiles exist that are weak for survivors.
Also, the definition of “unsafe tile” varies from person to person. Some people think any tile that is less than 100% safe, is an unsafe tile. And that killers really shouldn’t be able to get hits as long as there are pallets left in the area.
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@TheRealConsent said:
You all misunderstood.
Every killer has 2 options (from what I understand).
You ge to choose which "abilities" you want, and at the bottom right you can see 2/4 perk icons lit up with 2/4 grayed out. So with Hillbilly, you can choose either:
- Survivors are exposed when you're doing your chainsaw sprint
or;
- You get more control, but you don't instadown
No one is getting nerfed.
So you're saying that ALL survivors get 3 "perks", some of which are super powerful like "Reveal killer's aura to team when killer is in your line of sight"……… but if Trapper wants "more traps" then his ENTIRE 2V8 "perk" loadout is just "more traps"?????????
For reals? They can't even give trapper all three "perks" at the same time?
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If killers can't pick addons or perks, then all the killers are actually nerfed. Survivors get super buffed "perks" that are way above and beyond anything that would be allowed in the normal game (i.e. giving the entire survivor team aura reading on killers whenever you see the killer). And meanwhile, killers just get small basekit adjustments…. or massive nerfs like chainsaws only being able to do 1 health state.