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Oh, also:
I spend like 10-15 minutes as survivor to get a match, and it's generally against a tryhard tunneler red rank or against a n00by rank 10 who gets genrushed because we're all red-purple rank.
I've seen AFK people because they just click "ready" and go do something else. 3 AFK in one afternoon, only one came back and started playing, the other ones died on the hook.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1009768#Comment_1009768
This is why so many people advocate for separate modes for casual and ranked play, but that's always shot down with there not being enough players to support more than one mode. Because of that, people who just want to have fun and people who take it seriously will continue to be put together, and you can't really fault either one for their choice of how to play. The devs advocate this being a casual game over a competitive one, so if anything they support playing for fun over playing to win.
This is a casual game, you can't take it seriously and I don't expect every game to be a gen rush, but you expect people to do their part and "try" to win. It's not fun if you're in a First Person Shooter and someone is team killing just because "relax, it's casual, I do ######### I want, if you don't like this go play competitive", I don't know if I'm expressing my view correctly.
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@shootaman777 said:
Do you have a rework suggestion for MoM? This thread is not currently constructive in any way, the gist of it being able to be summed up by 'MoM sucks, don't touch it'.
I don't. I'm advising survivors not to use it if you don't want to f*ck up your team.
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@BongRips4Wraith said:
The only thing that irks me about Mettle is that they released it right when DS got "nerfed".
So everyone buys this new character and blasts points into him so they can get their pre-nerf DS that is arguably better. Once the sales died down, they (justifiably) nerfed it into oblivion.
It won't carry a game for you if you're absolutely terrible, but it was still the closest this game has ever been to Pay2Win. Pay now for a blatantly overpowered perk that will inevitably get nerfed soon! (but not too soon!)
The whole bait and switch thing with powerful perks and then making them useless after launch sales is exactly why I wait for the mid chapter update to buy new DLC.
Yes, when it came out it was Pay To Win. I don't know if the devs did it on purpose or they didn't even know it was going to be that strong. I mean, taking hits is something you'll eventually do, it's like a perk where if you do 3 hooks as a killer, a random survivor dies. It was so obvious, yet they released it anyway, meaning that not one crazy person, but a lot of devs thought it was viable.
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@Bloodlust_Gamer69 said:
In a nutshell 1 hour que times and bully simulator unless the killer brings a mori
Moris will be worthless. If they see a hidden offering, they will gen rush even faster and the one being chased will throw pallets like crazy trying to waste as much time as possible for the killer.
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@Xerge said:
Oh yeah, eventually everyone is going to be pushed to red ranks with the current rank reset.
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-AFK survivors. I'm seeing it a lot now that queue times are high, people just click "Find Match" and go do the dishes or go to the bathroom (number two, I had a guy saying that apologizing in the post chat) for giving examples, so they come back when the match has already started.
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Blendette. I feel like they're exploiting somehow, even though is what the Devs want her clothes to be.
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@WRussoW said:
Imagine this scenario, gens are done and gates are opened. You got a good toolbox in your hands but you know that there was a purple key that was left near a certain chest. Now, you would simply have a choice to go away with a toolbox and loose that key or risk and go for the key and loose that cool toolbox you had.
Now, many survivors wouldn't consider going for another item when they clearly can escape. Plus, loosing something that they already have may not worth it at all. But imagine you could have both items by the end of a match, that would actually be a great reason to risk, in my opinion. You somehow leave your item near the exit gates or maybe even near the hatch, and risk your life to go and get another thing you found during a match.
That would be not all that big but, I think, it could actually help both killers and survivors. Survivors get the items if they play properly and killers get their endgame kills if they find survivors who seek for items.
Even if we cosider that people may bring items to the exit gates before they are powered, it would still consume some time. You can even cosider it as a bonus objective that would give killers time and survivors their precious treasures if they start all gens and open the gates.
Edit: since a lot of people couldn't really get the whole amount of benefits for killers the change could bring, let me sum up some of them here:
1. If survivors start bringing items near the exit gates before gens are done, it can buy killers some time. And we all know that people want secondary objectives that would make survivors do something besides gens. Yeah, this one would be really optional but who wouldn't try to bring more than one item at least ones? (The whole process of searching for a chest, opening it and looking inside for long enough, picking up an item, finding the gates, leaving an item there would take quite long!)
2. If survivors would start searching for items during an endgame, that may let killers get more kills if survivors mess up. Most survivors would try to stealth their way for a new item during an endgame, so anti-stealth killer perks would work even more effectively during the endgame.
3. The whole change would motivate survivors to bring more chest and item related perks and offerings. More survivors would try to go with farming builds, these are much better to deal with if you play as a killer.
4. More used items during a trial would make item related perks for killers more useful. Plus, devs could gather more data about items. If they are too strong, it can lead to specific nerfs. (And a lot of players want to nerf survivors.)
5. If you leveled your main survivor as high as possible, you would have to waste bloodpoints to get new items on them at some point. Now, the game is grindy enough, why would you spend your bloodpoints on items? With this change you would rather try to farm new items during a match and waste your bloodpoints on someone you want to level up. That would give your main killer more bloodpoints to level up and get more good add-ons to sacrifice those teabagging survivors.
No.
Next.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/987976#Comment_987976
Eh I believe firmly that no one hates someone for no reason. I'm sure he has a valid reason and I just want to hear it / see if I can improve my standing in his eyes. I don't care that its just one guy.
All good, I don't want to deny you using this thread to solve some personal issue with some random guy, but now that you're here, besides your video about Hex:Ruin (which I've watched) Have you had games like this Otz game (first message of the thread). Have you ever had games where you see the flaws of the game, you feel that the times are mathematically broken? or that even if you're an amazing killer, you had 0 control over a match even if you tried your best?
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/987506#Comment_987506
Can you explain why you dislike me so much? Maybe we can work something out
I'm not sure if you're the real Scott Jund. If you are, you should know better, haters gonna hate, there's always going to be someone that doesn't like you, just because. Ignore those comments.
If you're a fake account, nice bait.
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@LunarFace said:
it wont matter because of the new rank changes. everyone will be red ranks in time
Everyone who? survivors and killers?
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I forgot to add:
-More killer ragequitting.
I just had a match, spirit, 2 gens and ruin destroyed in 2 minutes, 1 hook. Ragequit. This is going to be insane when the PTB goes live.
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@FriendlyGuerl said:
Otzdarva is an oldschool killer. He plays very cruel if he needs to aka extreme slugging and camping. That's not a bad thing, more a sign of good game knowledge, but many people just don't want to play like that.
And with the new ruin everybody is forced to play like this on red ranks.
I don't want to play like that, but looks like the devs want it that way.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983080#Comment_983080
...
Did you happen to read the name of the person you are replying to?
I did. I just didn't think he was the real one, nor the samination guy. But maybe they are and this thread is full of famous youtubers and twitchers, I dont know, and I don't really care either.
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@Kycer said:
it not all about winning or losing for a lot of killers. It’s about having fun ffs!
I don’t watch Otz a lot but I’ve seen few games where survivors frustrate him because he doesn’t use ruin but he manages to win in the end most of time.. I don’t care about winning, I just want the game to last long enough so I can have fun and without having to play sweaty so my opponents can have fun too. If ruin gets nerfed the game will definitely be less fun for both sides specially for killers which will eventually lead to them quitting the game.
"It’s about having fun ffs!"
That's true. Having 5 minutes matches is not fun. For anyone.
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@snozer said:
A single survivor doing gens will only take 7 minutes.
As long as at least one survivor is doing gens at all times, you will not win as killer.
Exactly. Unless you use pop to regress gens, the gen times are insane. If survivors just do gens and all survivors are half decent at loops, there's no way you'll 4k without ruin and "playing nice", you'll have to snowball, camp, patroll hooks, tunnel, maybe you'll get lucky with noed+blood warden or they will have to make a huge mistake.
I remember a game as clown at rank 15, I had another account so I went easy on them, the chases ended fast, but I didn't tunnel or camp them. No ruin, they were ranks 15-16 who had basic understanding of the game, probably between 300 and 600 hours. They all escaped. Ranks 15, I had 3k+ hours by that time, of course I played super nice but giving away nothing, just chasing one survivor at a time and letting them unhoook. I downed everyone super easy, still all escaped, the match lasted like 5 minutes. They knew they were really bad at looping, so they desperately did gens and they won.
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@samination said:
So, Cahlaflour is better than Otz? I watched her play all day today different killers with no ruin and she always slaughtered them. She was Rank 5 and always against Ranks 1 and 2's. No camping. No tunneling. No crutch perks. No sweaty plays. She was also tired, stressed, all while reading and answering questions. Zero issues.
This otz was very dependent on Ruin?
He wasn't and that's the point (you need to read the thread to understand what we're talking about).
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982819#Comment_982819
i gotta say thats the first time someone has called me a "creep"
To be fair, I've heard Scott Jund and he was not OK with the ruin changes.
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You can't.
The best perk is corrupt intervention, but if you chase someone for a minute or so, gens will still get done. Also you can have Azarov's Resting Place and spawn in the middle of the map, which will mean that gens will be free at both ends of the map, in that case CI does nothing for you, a wasted perk slot. It can happen something similar on other maps too.
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The Devs don't play the game enough. This is a rule in system development (hello, I'm a coder, hence my nickname) the User knows some places in your system MORE than you do, since they use it every day, every hour, they're pros at your system and you're not, you're "a n00b", you just test it casually.
People play it for hours every day, even all night every day (I've played it and seen people playing ir on week days till 5 or 6 a.m) they watch gameplays, they learn new techs, they play it at pro level. The Devs just play it casually, I don't expect any dev to have more than 2k hours into the game, some maybe not even 1k. They all play like "ranks 12-15", I've seen them, they're REALLY bad, as killer and as survivor, they don't know the loop, the mind games, they don't even know how to use dead hard properly, they are THE DEVS, they are not THE USERS, so they might know a few things on game design more than us, but there are other things they're oblivious to and that pro players know way better than they do.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
I don't even understand why people are talking about Otz to begin with. He's not a god tier killer or anything.
He's fun to watch but that's about it.
I've explained that many times in the thread, it's because people use him as an example of "killers that 4k without ruin, so if you don't 4k without ruin you're just bad".
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982294#Comment_982294
From what I've seen watching many different streamers/Youtubers, yes it is different. True is always surprised when 2 gens pop during the first chase with Ruin. THAT IS THE NORM ON XBOX. Like it is literally not even worth the perk slot. I've seen so many videos of gens going way WAY too slow. They do them fast, but not even close to how fast they go on Xbox. Trust me.
Why is that? Honestly, I'm a PC player. Is it easier to hit skillchecks with a controller? Or is it lazyness to go look for the totem?
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@Mellow7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982189#Comment_982189
Difference is Tru3 try's to play as fair as possible, Otz slugs every game and forces hook states and deaths, which is what you have to do when you don't have ruin against good survivors.
I do the same thing, I enjoy chases, I want to chase everyone 3 times, giving him the time to have fun and be fair, giving me time to have fun. We play the game to have fun, not because of emblems or rank, just because we want to have a good time, and Ruin buys you time to do that.
Doing one chase and having 3 gens gone is not fun, so you'll have to camp, tunnel, slug, and you'll probably still lose or get 1k. That also will make toxicity even worst in the community, since survivors are gonna be salty, or you'll be salty or feel like a ######### killer because they rescued the last guy with borrowed time and 4 escaped, and they'll be like "ez baby killer, n00b camper"... prepare yourselves, shittier times are coming.
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@Mellow7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982009#Comment_982009
I've watched Otz a few times but I believe Fungoose and Tru3 are a lot better than Otz just my opinion from watching plenty of DBD killers.
Again guys, I'm not saying he's the best, the thing was that people were waving him as an example of Killers that 4k without Ruin. I think Tru3 is better than Otz, but he runs ruin on most of his killers.
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@goat10em said:
I watch a ton of streamers. You know what every single one of them that have a lot of builds that do not contain ruin have in common? They don't travel too far from hook, they don't hesitate to slug, and they are not above the tunnel. I'm assuming this is what the people who keep telling everyone to get better at gen pressure means?
Scott Jund said something like this to the Ruin nerf: "Ruin allows me to play nice, now I just have to tunnel, camp and do things I dont want to do".
This is what you'll see from now on, a lot of killers camping or tunneling or slugging (all NOT FUN STRATEGIES FOR ANYONE, hello devs!!!) just to try to keep up with the game. I'm not even saying to 4k, just to try to 2k.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119060/otz-also-gets-destroyed-without-ruin
I mean, you're listing Autohaven and McMillan as hard killer maps. Are you sure you play the game at a high enough level where not having Ruin will affect you that much?
No. I didn't say they're hard maps for killers, I said they have strong loops. So if a potato (or even a half decent survivor) just safely throws pallets he'll last 60 seconds (remember, all pallets are up) and they'll make the first 3 gens by the time you down him, carry him to the hook and find someone else. Or if not, they'll have the gens at 80%-90% and they'll resume later.
This is mainly how many (most) of my survivor games go at high ranks without ruin, I immediately go to a gen, start doing it and by the time the killer downs the guy, my gen is done and at least one more is done. I feel like most of the time without ruin I HAVE CONTROL over the game, and not the killer. I can decide to be kind to the killer and chill or keep gen rushing him.
Those are games at high ranks, 1st chase= 2-3 gens down.
It will be a fun time to be in a SWF and a bad time to be killer in DBD.
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@Mr_K said:
I just find it funny that people consider him a God among killers.
Personally I don't. He's good, but he makes mistakes. But I've seen a lot of people putting him as an example "well, Otz wins without ruin, so Git Gud, the problem is not the game, it's you that are bad killers"
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Yes, they listen. They listened for 3 whole years people complaining about DS and they finally reworked it.
So yeah... they "listen".
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@53nation said:
Ruin is not a problem in ranks 15-20 though. You're far more likely to match up with a yellow rank killer, using all of 2 perks. One of them is noed and the other sure as sh ain't ruin.
You'll be out of rank 15 by the time you have like 30 hours into the game, or even less. I see your point, but I've also seen ruin like half of the games since rank 17. If you enter the game as killer and you ask someone else which perk you should get, the first to be recommended are BBQ and ruin, so that's the main objective for every new killer.
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@AvisDeene said:
Devs will lose money if killers stop playing due to not having fun. Killers will not have fun when all their matches are less than 6 minutes. Killers will look for alternatives to DbD and survivors will be playing Lobby Simulator. Survivors will get tired of Lobby Simulator and find new games. Devs will lose money.
They need to balance the fun for both sides. Catering to survivors will break the game in the end.
As things are going right now, I don't think they understand that, which is sad. They don't understand that they need an early game mechanic to buy the killer some time, or that the killers themselves are unbalanced (it takes the same objectives to defeat a wraith than to defeat a nurse) or that maybe they need to up the gen time or even add a sixth gen, or chance their core mechanics. Since that's "hard" they just tweak some perks here and there and that's it.
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Also, when the match starts the doors should automatically open.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/547191#Comment_547191
It isn't an exploit or abuse. The mechanic just doesn't work the way you would like it to, and to change it to what you want would be a direct nerf to an already weak killer.
It is an exploit. He has to stalk me for 4 seconds, I have to look at him for 1.8. The game is supposed to be "the first one to expose/reveal the other, wins". But, he has a way to exploit my reveal, he just hides behind the wall and pops out and keeps stalking, while I have no way to counter his stalking, he has a way to counter my reveal. Like dribbling to bug the old DS or moonwalk legion.
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You're missing the point. Everyone is saying "yeah, but he's weak, allow him to exploit the reveal timer at least, poor guy...". It feels like an exploit. I'm seeing him! He's in front of me, forget about timers and mechanics... I SAW YOU, I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE MAN, game over! the fact that he has to hide and reset my reveal timer and then keep stalking feels like an exploit, it feels like a moonwalk legion before rework, it feels cheap, it feels like abusing the mechanic.
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@anarchy753 said:
He's already a joke of a killer, no need to Legion him.
Two unrelaed things. The fact that he's not a strong killer is not related with this part of his mechanics being broken.
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@shyguyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523283#Comment_523283
You "4k almost every match" and you want more power because sometimes you don't?
Ok.
I love power.
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So this is something that has been happening way too much online. it seems like every other match a killer will be using Ruin. It wasn't always like this.
I can tell you're fairly new to the game. Maybe rank 15 or so? Less than 200 hours into the game? Don't worry, you'll understand as you gain experience that survivors tend to optimize time on gens, so they don't give killers time to do anything. THAT'S the meta and that's how to win the game easily, gen rush, just go from gen to gen and don't waste time.
Ruin a neccessary evil because it gives survivor something ELSE to do other than gens to slow the game down and give time to the killer to do a couple of hooks, and it's easy to spot if you know totem spots, every structure has one or two spots. Also, experienced survivors do gens even with ruin. They take a little longer, but a gen is 80 seconds, even if you fail all the skillchecks it can't take you more than 120 seconds to complete it.
"The match took around 45 minutes to complete because the first half was all of us looking for the hex totem. ALL OF THE SURVIVORS."
I'm sorry, I'm 3000 hours into the game and I don't say this often, but I genuinely started laughing at this part, and I mean it, REALLY laughing. I imagine the match all ranks 15 looking for a totem for 45 minutes and not knowing where the totem spots are. I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you but that was funny to imagine.
At rank 1, ruin gets done the first minute of the game, experienced players like me know the spots and there is a match in 50 when we don't find ruin in the first 2 minutes of the match.
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NOED is fine as it is. I don't use it on any killer (not even Freddy) but I don't see a need for a rework.
Just do the totems instead of gen rushing as hell if you're too afraid of it.
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I'm pretty sure this guy has less than 100 hours into the game.
Give him a break, we've all been n00bs.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm red rank killer and I 4k almost every match, it's just sometimes you get a 4 SWF optimized on gens and you go like "duuude, calm down, enjoy the match, like 5 minutes queue and you are THAT desperate to hold M1 and escape? come here! let's loop for a bit and have some fun!" and you can't have an ebony or ivory memento mori in advance (unless you already know you're facing a gen rushing SWF), so that mechanic would make you have control over the match and have fun if the survivors are having fun, or start removing survivors if they just come to the match exclusively to press M1 on a gen.
I just love how the power role is ACTUALLY powerful and feared in Deathgarden and I wish it was like that in DBD. I don't fear any killer, other than, maybe a God tier nurse or hillbilly, maybe God Tier spirit. The rest of them... "EZ PZ baby killer", I don't fear them at all.
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I saw on the latest 4 Gamers video that someone else got the bug too.
Minute 9:35
https://youtu.be/mPvHpLomdDI?t=576 -
Two words: ebony mori.
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Could I ask the devs to run the numbers? Are there more DCs and suicides than previous seasons?
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@LastShoe said:
I agree... the killers have same issue as well... you are no more feeling this thrill to stop survivors from completing 2 gens, now its... whatever, there is no difference between 5 and 1 gen...
Wait, there is a difference, you actually want the survivors to complete enough gens, so you can find the hatch and prepare to close it instead of looking for it when its opened... its actually better to not do your job of protecting the gens of being done.
But well... it necessary evil to prevent 30+ minutes long games of urban evasion.
Yeah, it's good if the hatch spawns AND you find it as killer... but at that point you probably have a 3k secured. So it's like... meh, whatever. Also, if the doors are far apart, closing the hatch is actually worst for you, because you have to guard both doors and unless you're hillbilly, spirit or nurse, the last survivor will most likely get away.
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@Poweas again, you guys are talking about a situational perk. IF YOU HAVE A WINDOW CLOSE, it's a good perk. You can activate sprint burst whenever you want, even if you're in the basement (just being unhooked, so you have the exhaustion gone) or in the middle of the map, or in a map with few windows. Granted, there are windows on most maps, but let's say, The Game, where there are literally 3 or 4 windows, it's almost useless. It's really useful if you've just been unhooked and you hear the hearbeat of the killer coming back. You can also rush and save (sprint burst and borrowed time) against a camper killer (I've done it many, many times). You can leave the generator you just finished with a sprint burst if you want, you can sprint burst to the next pallet or window if the killer is going to your gen... anyways, there are countless situations for sprint burst, while you could just activate lithe only when a window is near.
Also on maps like The Game is almost useless, while SB is useful on every single map no matter the layout of the map, and no matter where you are in the map. It's a general purpose perk, while lithe is a situational perk.
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@Cymer exactly what I think. I don't use NOED on any of my killers, but I think it's a balanced perk, since it has a lot of counter (either before or after it's activated). The thing is that survivors don't like to do all 5 totems, they just want to gen rush and leave.
Adrenaline has 0 counter (if you don't count NOED) you just chase the survivor, and you have to see him magically heal up and fly away.
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@Arroz cringey... yet here you are, your third contribution to this thread. Thanks for being part of it.
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@ReikoMori please elaborate.
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@Hoodedfengm1n that doesn't always work, it depends on the distance to the pallet. I always swing through, I use enduring.
About lithe, what you're describing is TOO situational. If you're just talking about situations, every perk seems strong, even poised or deja vu sound strong if you describe the situation.
Sprint burst is a general purpose perk, as is dead hard. You can use SB almost every time to avoid the first hit and get to a safe pallet or a window, DH helps you avoid the second hit. Lithe is a situational perk, that's why is not as strong as the other two.
It's not just me, just play some 20 matches and write down how many SB, DH and lithe you see.
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@Hoodedfengm1n Dead Hard doesn't always have a counter. I mean, if you're in open field, you bait it and that's it, but sometimes survs use it when thet fell short on a loop to get to a pallet. Not really a counter for that, and it's a punishment for the killer, who would, otherwise, catch the guy and hook him. But nope... he's still looping!