CaulDrohn
CaulDrohn
About
- Username
- CaulDrohn
- Joined
- Visits
- 2,515
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475878#Comment_3475878
Def. a creative approach --- though the question remains: people who DC as the ASAP way out of the match would make sure to die on hook ASAP - be that by taking chances or by playing so recklessly they get "tunneled" out of the game within a minute.
I am aware there are plenty petty reasons to dc - but there are also legitimate reasons in so far as there is absolutely no point in sticking around. These need addressing. or more like: they need to actually be identified and made tangible. Which is pretty hard, I imagine.
Yep, attempting escape would also have to be restricted in a way:
Attempting escape from a hook would only be possible when at least on of the following conditions is met:
- Less than 4 survivors remaining
- No other survivor can rescue you (all others downed, hooked, killed or afk)
- You have an unhook perk ready (active deliverance or slippery meat)
With this, early rage quitting is only possible by DC, a dc'ed survivor will be replaced by a bot, and the dc'ing player will have to wait longer before getting in a new trial, since the game just started. But they can always proceed with the match.
-
@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
To be honest, any game that I desperately don't want to play, I just kill myself on hook. A bot still won't replace me for it, and if I don't want a penalty for not wanting a 40 minute Skull Merchant match I just have to go out the next quickest way.
While removing a penalty would probably see MORE people DC, I unfortunately don't think that adding bots is going to change the most efficient way out of the game currently.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475878#Comment_3475878
The only problem I have with this is that the tides in DBD turn too quick for it to be effective. If you're out for 90 seconds, that's so much time that as a killer you lose a gen or more, and as a survivor you pretty much lose the match. The balance between players is pretty slim as it is and removing one even for a brief period while they reconnect would probably still not impact the match in any significant way.
Since we only have survivor bots right now (and one trapper bot), trial rejoin would only work for survivors. If the killer dc's, the game would still be over instantly. And I think we won't get any killer bots in the near future, since you would need a bot for every respective killer, so they now how to use there power.
If a survivor dc's, a bot would take over, until the survivor reenters the trial. So there wouldn't be a player missing, just being "less effective" since it's controlled by the bot temporarily. Remember, this rejoin would primarily be for players having an unvoluntary game crash. They should be ready to rejoin a trial in a few minutes. If they were unlucky and it happened at the end of the game, tough luck, but otherwise there's a good chance the dc did not have a major impact on the game.
-
@Stanbriggs67 said:
They got to remove dc penalty if they are adding bots, plus 90% of the time they will be better
We can remove CD penalties when there's some kind of mandatory trial rejoin. So even if you DC, you can only continue with your previous game, but not queue for a new one until the former game is over. And even if there's no penalty anymore, you still lose all BP and Pips if you do not reconnect in time.
With this, a player having an accidental DC (e.g. a crash) can still try to continue with their match, and rage quitters still have their "waiting punishment". With early rage quitters having to wait longer than rage quitters at the end of a match.
-
@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3472630#Comment_3472630
As if survivor didn't already manage to cleanse condemn mid chase nowadays.
Simply ditch the tape in the next TV when you hear her approach.
The worst that can happen is for her to abando chase to teleport somewhere and the survivor getting one stack.
Then get another tape, rinse and repeat.
Good survivor probably will never have more than one stack if the don't greed for the next gen.
Even if it turns out EXACTLY as you are portraying here, it would still be 1000% more interaction with tapes than now!
Now, you can play whole games without ever having to interact with a tape. Only when sadako brings the iri addon or the one that increases condemned by healing others, you are can find yourself in the position to acutally have to use it.
Even if it may not be as a threat to hold a tape anymore, it will surely increase the interaction with it, so time will have to be invested to fetch and return them. Which will delay the game. It will work similar to Pig traps, which's main purpose is also to delay the game.
So pls, lets first see who its turning out in the ptb, before crying that it will be so bad. And if it turns out to be too weak, the devs will adjust it. Contrary to the "devs don't listen" evergreen, the devs actually do listen, and have adjusted many things according to community feedback with the last chapters.
-
@humanbeing1704 said:
Is this seriously a perk that every killer uses now? I think it’s impossible to not play against it
"Windows, windows, windows ... sigh
Is this seriously a perk the every survivor uses now? I think it's impossible to not play against it"
Sorry, but couldn't help it. And windows has a much higher pick rate than sloppy, btw.
-
@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467070#Comment_3467070
got 5 games today "not in a row
thank god," 3 to 4 MFTs with DH or lithe ..I guess i should play high tier killers or run 2 anti-exhaustion perks to avoid being outplayed by someone holding W gaining free distance on me.but yeah a perk that rewards you with extra window of time to reach loops and gain more distance by just being injured isnt problematic.🙄 cough cough poor HAG mains.
NOW pair that with hope and there you go the most overkill combo against m1 killers at the end of the game " soo BaLaNcED".
also u right , i should maybe take screenshots the next time to show how miserable my games are with a team of MFTs 👍️
Yes, you actually should make pics when you do such bold claims. Your initial claim of 4 MFT in "almost every game" is just nonsense, atleast for now. That woul require a WAY HIGHER pickrate than the (formidable) 18% pick rate we have now.
The last time we had something similar was before patch 6.1 (perk overhaul), when everyone and their mother only ran the same perks (DH, DS, BT, UB, IW), and DH with a 40% pick rate. There you really could encounter 4 DHs in multiple games in quick succession. But even then, it still was not "in almost every match".
To make it clear: I'm not denying that MFT and stacked speed might be problematic, esp on 110% MS killers (although, hag mains would know NOT TO CHASE a survivor, but rely on trap hits ...). But we should discuss it's impact considering the current pick rate, not some outlandish worst case scenario.
-
@Rickprado said:
I'm a killer main and i think it was more a balance change, with a buff at the end more than a nerf.
BHVR made Soma Family Photo usable now, specially when combined with Baseball gloves. The speed you get after teleporting is very good to catch up with a survivor running.
The change in rarities did hurt a bit, but BP farming is very easy these days, so i don't think it will be a problem.
About the Iridescent Shard, people are forgetting that every aura addon can be strengthened by Lethal Pursuer, so its quite a buff for this addon. If the survivor have distortion, you can easily spam the biopods to waste all the tokens quickly.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3467070#Comment_3467070
About MFT, its just two weeks from release and the perk its already the 6th most used survivor. Give more time to survivors buy the DLC with shards/money/aurics and level up Gabriel and you will see that the perk might be the 3rd or 2nd most used.
I don't remember a game with 4 MFT survivors, but i do remember games with 2 or 3 MFT already. We must remember that we are not even a month after the perk release.
I think if the perk is not adressed, it will be like the old DH in terms of popularity
I'm not contesting that MFT might proove problematic in the future.
But claiming MFT is used by every surv in "almost every game" NOW, not in the future, thats just hyperbolic nonsense.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466758#Comment_3466758
A survivor loses all of that by performing a conspicuous action and because endurance doesn’t stack, a killer can still tunnel a survivor with it. I doubt you see it often; I think you’re being dishonest. I play both killer and survivor, I’m sure I’m in your MMR bracket, and I never see it. Most players just rely on basekit BT. And per Nightlight it has a 1% pick rate.
No they don't, they only lose the endurance. Iron Will and Aura Block you will always get the whole 80s (unless being downed, of course). And thats pretty valuable when you try to heal in a corner against a killer with aura reading perks.
-
@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/381149/nerfed-singularity-add-ons-already-huh
funnier that they nerfed / changed some of his addons based in stats with this quick patch, but they just completely ignored how popular and busted MFT still is to the point where the perk has become meta since the first couple of days.
🤔 4 survivors using MFT almost every game is aparently less of a issue for BHVR compared to a single killer player trying to have fun with their addons on a B+ tier- killer (because is pretty map depending).
I dont understand how quick they just said "yeah lets change this addons a bit
some got nerfed,even when people are still learning them"but the MFT situation is like..
https://media.tenor.com/l-PbZelgds0AAAAM/favorite-facts.gif
*waiting until the perk get out of hand on the stats to realize that the perk might be broken*
"4 survivors using MFT almost every game is aparently less of a issue for BHVR"
In ALL MY games since the patch it did not have a single game with 4 MFT! And I would know, since I upload nearly every game to nightlight! In the last seven days, the pick rate by random team mates / survivors of MFT is at 18%. Sure thats quite much, makes it fifth most-picked perk, but still way to low for your claim. For MFT to be run "almost every game", it needs to be way higher than that, at least around 50%. Not even WoO reaches that.
So pls, stop such exaggerations. That doesn't help anyone.
-
@stepbroslurp said:
Other competitive games have the ability to rejoin a game in progress if say your pc or console crashes, why not this one? I can't see a reasonable explanation why, sure you csn say it's unfair to either side but isn't that still better than just canceling the match and forcing the penalty?
The devs are already planning to let bots take over for DC'ed survivors. So a survivor would not be taken out of the game by DC anymore, but replaced by a bot. This would then also allow to implement such a rejoin feature. So when you are back into the game (after a crash), you could take your place from the bot again.
As long as your previous game is still running, you would only be able to reconnect to that game, but you would not be able to queue for a new one. This would punish first down DCs way more than than late DCs. Maybe there could be an additional penalty once the game is over, but you did not finish it.
Last but not least, with bots taking over, and the original player opting out of the game somehow, the devs could also implement player backfill, so that a different player takes over the bot position. Only the player finishing the game would get the collected BP, with maybe some small additional incentive for backfill players (something like getting 10k-15k BP just for joining into a running match and playing it till the end).
-
Really low quality bait. Way to convoluted and incoherent to even read it through, sorry.
-
So what about adding some requirements to enable self unhook attempts (one is enough to enable it):
- Have deliverance / anti-camp (SoonTM) ready - Nothing wrong with attempting escape when it's guaranteed to work
- Less than 4 survivors remaining - If you are down from 4 survivors and you want to give up, the team will likely lose anyway
- No teammate to help - When all other survivors are also hooked, slugged or afk, you should be able to try to unhook yourself.
-
@RaSavage42 said:
So I have different builds for most of the Survivors... but I can't remember them all
Killer is the same... but
Pig:
Oppression, Surveillance, Corrupt and Whispers
With Combat Straps and John's Medical File
Opression and Surveilance are really nice together. If only the cooldown of opression wasn't so infuriatingly long >.<
-
@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460149#Comment_3460149
I find it mostly useful on maps like saloon
Better upright pallets to guarantee a stun then dropped ones or no pallet at all lol
Sure, upright pallets are of more value than dropped ones (esp on killer that can break them fast, like Nemi or Bubba). And with the lremoved cooldown and aura for dropped pallets, you have a real chance to use the perk in a trial to some effect. The perk was underpowered when it was released ^^.
-
"My friend", you are talking to a veteran player here. I joined the game in october 2017, a week before The Nightmare release.
So let me tell you from my experience: We had WAY MORE shaky patches than this one. Just try googling the mess the Twins patch brought. Actually, this patch is pretty stable. Wesker is disabled sure, but apart from DS behaving strangely with the new killer, I did not experience any glaring issues. Esp. the new killers power does just work. Compare that to the Knight patch, were his power would totally break randomly and you could not use it anymore for the rest of the trial.
And I seriously don't know what you mean about Blight needing the kill switch.
-
@HugTheHag said:
Ace In The Hole + Appraisal, for fun lootboxes =)
We'll Make It, for quick heals to earn forgiveness for the chest build
Aftercare, because it's the most underrated survivor perk. It shows you : where gens are (seeing aura of your teammate working), where killer is (seeing your teammate being chased), where gates are (seeing your teammate open the gate), where anyone is that needs a heal. And they see you too ! So people can come to you for heals when they need it, or find you to work on gens. Best perk in the game =D
Aftercare is really nice, esp on solo Q!
-
@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379989/what-was-your-most-recent-loadout-and-why
oh i didn't see the edit at first. "Can be on killer too"
slinger
Prison chain & increase reload speed
No where to hide- to deal with toxic baby rushers
Over charge- my gen defense
Monitor - to give that old slinger feel and i hate shift W
save or star struck
What are toxic baby rushers?
-
@solarjin1 said:
Depending on my mood. my regular build when I'm chilling just having fun and not caring about winning
windows
kindred
bond
some sort of exhaustion perk
But if i really wanna win because I'm fed up with my solo q games for the day then I'll switch to a gen rush build.
(BNP/toolbox)
hyper focus
this is not happening
stake out
built to last
How about some little Open Handed to your aura build ^^?
-
Then play TCM, I hear it's a great game. Have fun!
-
I'm not so sure about the perk. Yes you can save a pallet, but you also have to invest time to run there, and thats time not spent on a gen. Also, the killer most likely will insta destroy strong pallets, and only leave weaker / unsafe pallets in place. So the benefit might be rather small. But everyone as they like :).
-
@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460073#Comment_3460073
yeah i should've look it up
No worries
-
Survivor: Yoichi with Flip flop, Tenacity, Off the record, empathy
Build for finishing the Flip Flop challenge. After being hooked and unhooked, I used OTR to tank a hit and go down bc of deep wound voluntarily. A random Ada tried to heal me up, but I refused (holding shift). She got downed as well bc she did not understand that I did not want her to. Was then picked up by the killer and could wiggle free. Ada meanwhile baby-raging and killing herself ont the hook, bc. apparently I was the one throwing the game. Ironic
Killer: Artist with Deathbound, Game Afoot, Spirit Fury and Pentimento
Build challenge from NightLight, so 4 random perks that no one used together and uploaded to NightLight before. I choose Artist bc I also had a daily for her. Match went well, got 4k. Did not use much of my perks though, Deathbound triggered once (as far as I recognized), Spirit Fury as well (did not really help me), Game Afoot activated more often of course just by chasing the obsession, for Penti there was only one cleansed totem, and that was at the end of the trail, so no eal value either.
-
@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459938#Comment_3459938
¿ completely disagree
There little reward from preventing a hook if the killer can just drop, let the wiggle meter regress, and pick right back up. They will not move that far away from body to give other survivor a chance to pick up. Of course they will proxy camp the slug into than! why would they leave? When the hook is still very much obtainable
Before complaining, pls look up the facts first. From the DbD Wiki:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Wiggle#Wiggle_Regression
"Whenever Survivors would stop wiggling or be prevented from doing so (i.e. when they were dropped by the Killer and left in the Dying State), their Wiggle Meter would slowly regress over time at a rate of -0.05 c/s.
At this rate, it would take 320 seconds (5 minutes and 20 seconds) to regress a full Wiggle Meter(16 charges) completely, which contributed to this feature being essentially unknown amongst the Community."
So by no means you were able to drop a survivor and pick 'em up a few seconds later. It took REALLY LONG. But in the scenario of searching the last surv that crawled away minutes ago, you were pretty much save to pick them up and hook them, ending the game. Now, if you had to drop that said survivor, you cannot pick 'em up even 3 minutes later, bc the will wiggle off. So the safer approach for the killer is indeed leaving the surv on the ground for them to bleedout.
-
@ndamalas said:
Great. So now there's no counter for a survivor just holding onto a cube and not solving it. Well, at least I won't see any chain hunts anymore.
No counter? How about ... DOWNING them?
You can not even repair properly while holding the cube, bc the chains will interrupt any channeling action. A player purposefully holding the cube to deny it effectively takes themselve out of the game, so you only have to deal with 3 ppl until they solve it again.
-
@Davenport916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453963#Comment_3453963
You guys do things without even thinking sometimes. And then turn around and make us console players wait an entire ptb for things that should've been implemented without question. Save these kind of changes for a ptb to get player feedback instead of just jumping the gun. Remember Freddy? I do
The item type change WAS in the PTB! There was ample time to test it out, and I bet the players did, since it affected playing against Singularity and improved flashbang gameplay.
Freddy nerfs after release were a whole different story, that does not even remotely apply here. With Freddy, there was an outcry of survivors that Freddy is too strong, so they indeed "jumped the gun" and overnerfed him as an reaction. With this item change, there was no outcry! No ever so loud minority forcing Franklins to not work on killer items. Nothing for the devs to REACT to. So your claim that they are "jumping the gun " here misses the mark by miles. If anything, it is complained about now (at least in this thread), so if they were to change something about that now, THAT would be jumping the gun!
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I am just sad that this just deacresing build diversity. Frenklin's could always be countered once you knew Killer has it and unless Survivors had very good items, it wasn't big of a deal at all (Oh nooo, I lost my brown toolbox...). And since when Nemesis vacines were removed with Frenklins? I thought it will just force you to drop it, which again, I don't see the problem with it. If it would make that item dissapear, then it would be bug since Frenklin's doesn't do that, it just makes you drop it and lose charges if the item even have any.
It just nerfing situational perk and decreasing build diversity.
I honestly never met a Nemi or Wesker player to run Franklins bc of vaccine or sprays. It's just not very effective, when most vaccines and sprays are used far away from the killer, so you don't even have a chance to make them drop it. Also, before the item change, when survs brought their own item, they usually only switched to vaccine / spray and switched back the moment they applied it. Only when not bringing an item or keaving it somewhere, you would have a reason to take vac/spray with you. If anything, vacs and sprays will be carried more NOW, with the item change. So a Franklins Build to counter that would make sense NOW, but not before the item change, imo.
The only exception from that was Pinhead, since he had a clear advantage when making survs drop the cube. That is no longer possible now, which is fine, imo. That playstyle was very obnoxious.
So yeah, it may suck a bit that Franklins no longer works on killer items. But still this situations were and are the great exception, the main purpose of Franklins is draining medkits or hindering flashlight usage.
And on the flip side, it's a great QoL change for the survivor side, not having to swap items. My guess is, when playtesting with Singularity and the EMPs, they recognized how much of a hassle this constant swapping of items is, so they consolidated the item types. I really like such consolidation changes, they make the game way more clear. This time, the survivors got the better of it. Looking at older consolidation changes, the killers had the advantage:
- Patch 6.1 - Definition of conspicious actions: Prior only with reworked DS, now also deactivates Endurance, and now also covers opening a gate. More of a killer favored change.
- Patch 3.4 - Introduction of Undetectable status effect: Consolidation of multiple "Remove TR and red stain" effects from perks and powers, also removes auras now. The only slight killer nerf by this consolidation was Myers losing his Spine Chill counter, but overall stealth killer were buffed significantly.
- Patch 1.5 - Introduction of Exhausted status effect: Consolidation of multiple sprint related perks to prevent stacking effects. Clear killer-favored change.
So summing it all up, IMO it's a perfectly reasonable change. It may hurt killer variety slighty (although I cannot not really take this claim too seriously, given how much of a niche those types of builds were and are), but it's a great change for survivor play, making games with killer items and / or flashbangs much more smoothly.
-
@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454191#Comment_3454191
Be honest: Does BHVR have an idea how they want Killers to play at all?
Because it feels like when players come up with builds for a Killer that BHVR doesn't like or run counter to BHVRs design philosophy, the perks and addons necessary to make it work get nerfed hard.
See also: The old M&A Deathslinger build that gave you a very narrow window of stealth with the Redeemer. The build took a number of perks to make it work and BHVR nerfed him for no reason and has refused to undo the nerfs.
A number of perks for M&A Slinger? Yeah sure, you need M&A, and one is a number. But everything else is icing on the cake (to know where to find ppl on gens).
About stealth:
Every stealth killer has their own miniscule audio cue when they are approaching:
- Wraith is snarling, and his bell rings, even with silent bell you hear the uncloaking.
- Myers can be heard breathing when near
- Pig has to either roar (for dash) or unsheath her blade (for uncrouch), both can be heard.
- Ghostfaces has flappy clothes that can be heard
- Sadako has a lullaby
- Even non-stealth killers with Undetectable as a side effect of their power can be heard moving (Demo, Dredge, Scully)
ALL mentioned have in common that they first have to get close to you, where the audio cue gives you an early start if you pay attention to it. Thats the way stealth effects are balanced in the game.
M&A Slinger totally circumvented that. SInce he has a ranged ability, he could spear and hit you without any indication he was near. Sure slinger is a large dude, but on maps like Yamaoka with tall, non-solid LOS blockers, not even that large size could be noticably. And all that without any drawback for the killer (with the TR addon, at least you have to scope, which makes you really slow). So to make it more fair / allow for some counterplay, his TR was increased.
Could it be handled differently than just giving him normal TR? Sure, other range killers like Trickster and Huntress have a lullaby, so they could have given that to slinger as well. I guess they didn't bc adding a lullaby is more work (has to be composed) than just changing the base TR radius of a killer (number change).
-
@S4MMYD48ULL said:
As a Nemesis main, I would like to denounce this nerf. We and the Wesker mains are hurting because they wanted to cuck the robot? And when or how does one get a refund for a virtually useless killer that one doesn't have any fun playing as?
How does the item change make playing Nemesis or Wesker useless? Care to explain? Sounds more like a massive hyperbole to me.
-
@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454116#Comment_3454116
Whilst I understand what you are meaning, when decisions like this are made, all interactions are taken into consideration. Our team of designers specifically want Special Items to be exempt from a perk working on them so in the same vein as Sadako tapes do not work with Franklins - it's not to do with the charge loss but to do with the item itself.
Don't forget when Franklins was introduced to the game, special items weren't even in the game as the killers didn't have anything, it's only more recently where killers have had special items and having a perk work on those items where survivors have to interact with that item - such as Pinheads box isn't great. So completely separate to charge loss.
Franklins still has a most definite place in the game and is still as useful as it ever was.
But what about Pinheads Cube now? You could use Franklins to make survivors drop it, but that will not work anymore, I guess? Not that I would miss it, just curious.
-
@ShyPirate said:
Map prevention feature gets turned off temporarily after a new map is released.
Is that so, Okay ... I could understand that they want the new map to be played more often, but why turn the whole thing off then?
-
Experiencd that myself. Jumped into a locker with DS, got pulled out, used DS to get free, but camera stayed on the killer. Obviously I was downed pretty much instantly, not being able to navigate properly.
-
#########, is this real? Could a Dev confirm this?
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
They nerfed all good perks because they used so much. This was the worst decision ever they made.
Some perks needed nerfs for sure. Gen-kick meta was so busted. DH was broken. NOED was unhealthy etc.
But why Ruin, Pop, DS, Self-Care, Calm Spirit etc nerfed?
Why self-heal nerfed?
Why we are still getting very unbalanced maps? And then they are saying they are gonna rebalance maps but when your newest map is unbalanced, it just makes you very questionable.
Solo-q ignored and keep ignoring.
Terrible 3-gen holder killers released in row 3 times! (Knight, SM and Singularity).
Blight and Nurse are still cheating and breaking all of game rules.
With every new chapter, they are adding another gen speed perk for survivors! Why? Just why?
"They nerfed all good perks because they used so much."
The community REQUESTED a meta shakeup, esp. for surivor. So we got it. Of course the perks being played a lot get nerfed then, while others receive buffs. Thats the whole point. You cannot switch the meta when you keep the strongest perks as they are.
"But why Ruin, Pop, DS, Self-Care, Calm Spirit etc nerfed?"
Before the perk overhaul, realistically there were only two viable gen defense options: Ruin+Unduying or Pop. You could enhance that with Corrupt or PR, but Ruin or Pop (or both) nearly always took the gen regression place in a build. So in order to "shakeup the meta", of course this two perks would be hit. For compensation, gen kick perks were buffed profoundly, creating the infamous "gen-kick-meta". It was an attempt to switch from "automatic" gen regression (with ruin) to a more active approach of gen defense. But eventually backfired, bc. it made 3 genning too strong.
"Why self-heal nerfed?"
Bc. healing yourself with a busted med kit in 8 seconds or faster, MULTIPLE times in a trial, is really problematic. WIth such speedy heals, it's impossible to build any pressure by hitting multiple ppl. Overall this changes were pretty well received, esp. since the devs heard to the community and did only nerf self heal speeds, but not altruistic ones.
"Why we are still getting very unbalanced maps? And then they are saying they are gonna rebalance maps but when your newest map is unbalanced, it just makes you very questionable."
With maps, the devs are really struggling to get it right. No one in their right minds denies that.
"Solo-Q ignored and keep ignoring."
Thats a pretty wild take, when the HUD changes with activity icons made playing solo Q WAY BETTER. When you lose now, you can usually tell it's because one of your random teammates made misplays that could have been prevented by just making use of the data the icons give you. It's more of an issue with the players now (instantly giving up or dcing), and not so muhc with the limited info. So claiming Solo-Q gets ignored ist just plain wrong.
"Terrible 3-gen holder killers released in row 3 times! (Knight, SM and Singularity)."
Knight is fine now, his last changes finally allow him to use guards in more creative ways, so he's not so reliant on 3-genning anymore. Scully is bad, we all know. Singularity is by no means a 3-gen killer. He can do it, but it's not very efficient, honestly. A single EMP will totally take out your gen defense. Singularity is a chaser, there he excels.
"Blight and Nurse are still cheating and breaking all of game rules."
The only glaring issue of Blight are his busted addons, otherwise he's perfectly fine. He also does not break anything, don't know what you mean. Nurse is the only one than can totally ignore game mechanics. But Nurse also took a few hits in the recent past: Range addons got removed / changed, and Blinks attacks count as special effects, making exposed perks useless with her. She's still S-Tier, but her most attrocious playstyles (4 man slugging Starstruck Nurse) got dealt with.
-
@UndeddJester said:
The problem with nerfing Adrenaline in any way is you only get it once... so it has to do a lot for you to be worth it.
The introduction of exhaustion remaining active on the sprint effect as a result of the HUD giving out info is not a bad idea tbh, but as other have said, it makes the perk too weak to use as a 1 time thing, as the reason you want it is to save your ass if you're in the final chase, which will most likely mean you're already exhausted.
If it must get nerfed because its too popular, I personally would suggest something like it simply removing exhaustion immediately. 1 of SB, Lithe, BL, all become a requirement to get the mileage, but at least that is then allowing Survivors to get the effect at the cost of 2 perk slots instead of 1... and you're probably taking 1 of these anyway so no foul.
The nicely of this is it means only the survivor in chase really gets the benefit without thinking about it. Other survivors would need to preemptively spend their exhaustion perk to run towards the gate to then get it back, and at least one player must be on a gen, so as killer you won't suddenly have all 4 sprint across the map...
This brings on the intelligent use of the hud you want, without shafting the main reason the survivor wants it... and these Endurance perks don't last as long as current Adrenaline, so isn't QUITE as punishing.
But that's my 2 cents.
Thats an interesting take. So Adre would no longer give a speedboost itself, but remove Exhaustion instead. It would not prevent the situation I was aiming for (get rid of double boosts), but that would only be an issue with a SB user. And even then, they only get 3 instead of 5 seonds boost. With Lithe and BL, a player has to time it really well to get the effect soon enough, so there's some skill involved. And the killer will expect that and try to counter the activation. Other survs outside of chase would at least be slowed down compared to now, since they won't have the 5s speedboost (maybe 3s bc of SB), but get to keep their exhaustion perk for ladder (when playing Head on and Adre, I regularly forget that Head on won't work bc af adre's exhaustion. That wouldn'T be the case anymore ^^). Ans last but not least, if you don't run an exhaustion perk besides Adre, you won't have nothing from the exhaustion removal. So like you said, you have to commit two perk slots for your end game sprint (same with bloodrush).
The more I think about it, the more I like that suggestion. Thx for sharing it :)
-
@patronsaintofpizza said:
Sorry if this was already recommended but I also think the insta heal should not proc if the killer is using Terminus. If Terminus inflicts broken, there's no reason it shouldn't be applied to insta-heals like Adrenaline.
It does not proc when you have Terminus. The survivors will only sprint away without being healed. Whats also nice with the perk, when survivors cleanse at a Plague fountain, they only lose their infection, but stay broken ^^.
-
@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452008#Comment_3452008
Well yeah everything is stronger in SWF. Ex: are we really gonna nerf CoH again because swfs use it super well?
Adrenaline is a super well designed and balanced perk. Its absolutely risk-reward as well. For every adrenaline someone equips, they aren't equipping deliverance or prove or some other meta perk they could. Their taking the risk of bring 3 perks in hope that they survive til endgame for a massive reward. Adrenalines just one of those perks that feels really op from the killer end, I say this as a 1700 hour killer main. I used to hate adrenaline until i started using it as survivor. Half the time I die and the other half I make it and get insta healed. Very, very rarely do I get it to pop mid chase. That happens a ton from the killer perspective because everyones running it, so if you are chasing someone when the last gen pops theres a sizeable chance they've got adrenaline. but trust me it is not common. And even if it was that common, surviving til endgame with just 3 perks deserves that kind of reward.
Like they said, adrenaline used to not push through exhaustion and it was stupid. Exhaustion perks are the strongest and most fun survivor perk type. Everyone wants to use one and everyone does. Adrenaline is a reward for survival, so why should the survivor not get their reward because they brought an exhaustion perk? Imagine if you didnt get NWO because someone was on hook or you brought noed or smth. its just stupid, you spend all game earning it just for it to do nothing.
the SB into adrenaline thing rarely happens anyways. And plus if they got adrenaline, even without that SB that chase was lost. Besides, the point of adrenaline being able to pop mid chase to begin with is as a reward for not going down yet along with not dying.
if anything it should hold on hook for you, as you did lose the chase and still get rewarded. but I think its fine as is.
"Like they said, adrenaline used to not push through exhaustion and it was stupid. Exhaustion perks are the strongest and most fun survivor perk type. Everyone wants to use one and everyone does. Adrenaline is a reward for survival, so why should the survivor not get their reward because they brought an exhaustion perk? Imagine if you didnt get NWO because someone was on hook or you brought noed or smth. its just stupid, you spend all game earning it just for it to do nothing."
They would still get the heal as reward, so no "nothing". Does anyone even READ what I'm proposing? Only the boost would be negated when still exhausted. And since they now with the HUD when the last gen will likely pop, they can plan for it and do not use an exhaustion perk when adre is bound to happen. But requiring survs to plan for their perks to activate is obviously too much to ask -.-.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3454576#Comment_3454576
The reason for that is not buffs to adren. The reason is, that everything else gets nerfed. The same can be said about jolt. Is it OP now? It has very high pick rate right now. Should be nerf it based on numbers? No. It didn't change. It's same strength as it always was. It's just that everything else was nerfed to the ground. Same thing for adren as for jolt
The difference is, jolt can only be brought once, while Adre can be brought up to 4 times. And Adre gets more problematic the more ppl have it. Its one of very few perks were your action as a surv directly benefits other players, possibly FAR away. Think about it as a remote heal AND sprint burst for the one being chased. The higher the pick rate of Adre, the more urgent it is to nerf it, really! Just think about the extreme of having adre on every player all the time. You can practially just scrap end game all together and let the survs auto-escape once all gens are done then.
Adre sits way too high in pick rate currently (over 30% according to nightlight). And I don't buy the notion that there's no other thing to run. There are many solid and slept-on perks, they are just not as "op" as adre is. Jolt is in a healthier spot (shy of 20% according to nightlight). It has it's limitations (only basic attack), and when you recognize the killer has it, can try to play around it (going down far away form gens, jump into locker). Adre does not have that limitations or counterplay. The only condition is to get all gens done. That can be difficult to achive in solo Q, but is fairly easy with coordinated swf. There's no counterplay for the killer, Terminus can deny heal, but the sprint always comes through. Noed is usually gone after the first down, often even before.
And thats exactly what i want to tackle with the remove of the ignore exhaustion effect: Giving it some more limitation (may not be exhausted, so no SB into ADRE), and simultaniously give killers a way to counter it (exhaustion addon's or perks). It's still in the power of the survs to finish the last gen, so they can even counter the killer counterplay by waiting out exhaustion effects before popping the last gen.
I totally agree that nerfing around stats may not be the right approach in the general case. But that does not negate the fact that there can still be situation where the pick rate absolutely has an impact on the severeness of an issue. I would say it's generally a good guideline for survivor perks: Is the perk getting problematic when run by all four survivors? That certainly was the situation with other prominent survivor perk nerfs (old DS, initial MoM, old and new DH). Adre imo falls in the same category, the killer looses all pressure during end game when all survs run it (and the killer does not have one on a hook).
-
@Spectralfx said:
I agree,
This perk I face in all my matches along side prove thyself and it's really annoying.
Not only do survivors get to gen rush in record time, they also get rewarded for playing poorly or recklessly since one the last fen inevitably, they run to the gate from across the map scot free everytimed.
I would killswitch adrenaline until fixed.
Killswitch? It's not breaking the game. Sure it sucks when it heals ALL of them with the last gen, but you still have the chance to kill them before the last gen pops (how small that chance may be).
-
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453263#Comment_3453263
At 125% for 3 seconds the perk is still fairly strong and useful in escape situations, but not overly so. You still have perk synergy with other movement speed increasing perks as well as you health state. 150% for 5 seconds isn't overly strong, but if we're talking a sensible nerf that isn't removing the health state then you can only trim the either the time and boost amount. That's an issue older perks have from the release of DBD is that they are extremely basic to the point where changing them is literally either make it no do a thing and do a new thing or just change the numbers until it feels more inline with what you want balance wise.
Removing the ignore runs counter to the thought process that Adrenaline is supposed to push past exhaustion both in a gameplay sense and just a thematic sense. That's kinda how it works IRL as well a surge of adrenaline pushes a person past the usual limits even if they are exhausted, but it's short term. Personally I would prefer if Adrenaline just gave the speed boost and only gave the heal if they were slugged that way sure they would be faster for a bit, but they wouldn't completely reset a chase in the endgame.
Ok, so your concern is that removing the exhaust ignore would go against the perks intention. I can accept that, although thats a no-issue for me.
125% for 3 seconds would be ok as well, iguess, but maybe only when they got healed as well. Otherwise 150% for 3s (without heal).
-
@Alen_Starkly said:
Currently, Adrenaline is very, very popular... (if I remember correctly, about 30% of usage). I keep seeing streamers face multiple adrenalines in almost every match. Which, by BHVR's new standards of nerfing what's used too much, means that it will probably get nerfed soon-ish.
Correct, it's pickrate increased slowly but steadily for the last couple of months. And thats also why the perk gets more and more problematic, when all run it and don't bother to slow down for healing.
That's why I thought about how the perk could be adjusted without hitting it too hard.
-
@Iron_Cutlass said:
Just nerf the 150% Movement Speed duration, it should be 3-seconds like most other Exhaustion perks, in my opinion.
That would be a big help as well.
-
@Annso_x said:
Adrenaline is fine. I'm not sure why you bring Blood Rush into this, no one uses it specifically because it has too many conditions. If anything Blood Rush should get a buff but Adrenaline doesn't need a nerf.
Solo q survivors being able to pull off things that were only possible in swf is a good thing.
I'm bringing Blood Rush to the conversation to highlight that ignoring / resetting exhaustion is a pretty powerful effect! So powerful that devs make a perk DESIGNATED for that purpose really difficult to activate. Sure it might be a bit to difficult, but that does not diminish the potential power of resetting exhaustion at will. But Adre does just do it out of the box, without any additional steps. The only thing holding that aspect of Adre a little back is you need others to proc the last gen. Which is a non issue in swf.
Adre is already insanely strong, when it activates. And would still be really strong even without the ignore exhaust effect. But even that slight adjustment is just too much?
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453260#Comment_3453260
Because exactly this:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3453304#Comment_3453304
Plus also - every perk is suddenly OP and needs nerf as long as the previous one gets nerfed. That's what I call moving goalpost. A year ago the perk was exactly the same and nobody even mentioned the perk. HUD didn't add anything to the perk. It just added ability to use the exactly same perk not even to the same capacity as SWF can.
I don'T and didn't say its OP. I'm saying it's a bit overtuned (not suprising for a perk that went unchanged for YEARS now). It's no real issue when just one or two have it. But when the whole team has it, and uses it to speedrun gens and don't bother healing, that IS problematic. If we don't want extensive 3-genning that makes games last longer than 30 minutes (for good reason), we should also try to avoid 5 minute matches.
Yes, HUD added possibilty to faciliate the exhaust ignore for solo Q as well. And to know WHEN adre will proc. Thats exactly my point, when you know when Adre will activate due to the new HUD, you don't NEED the exhaust ignore effect for perk consistancy anymore!
-
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452008#Comment_3452008
As a mostly killer player I find it much more annoying that I can be mid chase with an injured survivor and they suddenly just get the whole health state I just took back which resets the chase to square one. Survivors just being faster for a few seconds is much more tolerable because depending on your killer and if they happen to misplay their speed boost at loop I have ways to capitalize on it to get the down. There isn't much to do when they get a health state and speed boost cause even if I counter the speed they still get to jog on. Removing the heal would kill the usage of the perk because it would just be hope which is a perk we already have.
In the past adrenaline was actually extremely popular, but also extremely inconsistent as it lost the speed during exhaustion and the perk would proc and burn out if you were hooked. The QoL changes it received over time made the perk overall more consistent which is better for survivor play which is ultimately fine. It's only when you have like multiple people with it where it feels super annoying. I think it is important to keep in mind that the HUD has no more effect on Adrenaline than comms does as the perk isn't reliant on timing anymore and hasn't been for years. It either works or doesn't which is just cleaner design overall.
If you really are deadset on putting a nerf out there just make the speed boost 125% for 3 seconds and remove the interaction with Freddy's power because that's literally something that was only needed when Freddy had his old power and no longer makes sense with his current power. It would weaken it just enough to still be worth running, but not feel as bad to play against and Freddy would be able to outplay adrenaline gamers since they'd be susceptible to his power
Freddys interaction should be removed, thats for sure.
But I feel reducing the boost to 125% for 3 seconds would hit it way harder then just removing the ignore effect, don't you think?
Why do you think reducing the boost is better than removing the ignore, just because of the consistency reason (genuine question)?
-
@Gandor said:
Moving goalpost again. Adrenaline was perfectly fine perk during old DH. The perk is good - the only thing is, that everything better was nerfed to the ground, so suddenly it's OP and needs nerf? Where's the end? Current buckle up?
Nice strawmanning.
As I already mentioned, the HUD changes make it more consistent of capitalizing the "ignore exhaustion" effect (aka triggering double sprints). Before only swf / voice could do this, now everyone can (although swf is still better at this). The "ignore exhaustion" effect had it's place before the HUD update, just for making the perk overall more consistent to use. But now, thats really not necessary, bc you can SEE when it will proc in the HUD.
Also, were in the world is my proposed change "nerfing it to the ground"? The heal stays the same, the sprint stays the same (when it triggers). It's explicitly a change to prevent a very annoying "tech" (using it for double speed) thats part of old dbd, but does not have a place in current dbd anymore. Just compare this to Blood Rush, a perk DESIGNED for something like double speed, and how hard that is to pull off (could use a buff for sure). Last but not least, removing the ignore effect would require some more skill / planning to use Adre and other exhaustion perks together.
So, tell me why this is "too much" for you? About "moving goalpost", the addition of the HUD icons effectively DID move the Adre goalpost as well, albeit very minor. The game evolves, perks, addons and powers have to be adjusted over time. And Adre dodged adjustments for long enough, really (last change was patch 1.8.1).
-
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3451853#Comment_3451853
People don't suggest it because that is how it used to work and the way it works now with ignoring exhaustion is a QoL to make the perk work more consistently.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Adrenaline?so=search#Change_Log
Just because it worked like this for years does not mean it has to be set in stone. If anything, it shows how outdated the perk is.
And like I said, with the addition of the HUD icons, you can totally get consistent value out of it even without the ignoring effect. Not to mention that we are only talking about the sprint here, the heal would come either was. You just have to play a bit smarter then, not brainlessly use your exhaustion perks since you know you will still get you Adre sprint.
Let me ask you, what is your opinion on Adre? Is it fine or does it need a nerf / some toning down?
For me, it's a little bit to strong, esp. in swf. It's far from being "high risk, high reward" imo (that only applies to solo Q). With the right team, it's more of a "win harder" perk. How often does it really help a group that is struggling? I see it in my solo games, where we fight hard to get the last gens done and you really hope the one on dead hook being chased has it, but they usually don't. But where do you see it to great effect? 4 man groups rushing through the gens with resilience not bothering to heal bc they have Adre. And the one person you are chasing when the last gen pops just timed their other exhaustion perk right to get the double sprint boost.
So, how to nerf it? Removing the heal would kill it. Making it exclusively heal or sprint boost might work, but that also hurts solo more than swf than can coordinate well. But removing the exhaustion ignore would hurt SWF more than solo's, bc only the former can make make use of it consistently ("wait a sec for my SB to wear of, then pop the gen!"). And with the HUD changes, you have enough info available to not unintentionally use an exhaustion perk seconds before Adre pops.
-
@ReikoMori said:
Even as a predominantly killer player I will have to disagree with this. This is a perk interaction that makes sense for adrenaline and the most problematic part of the perk is the instant heal because a fast survivor with only one health state to worry about is much better than a normal speed survivor with 2 health states.
The instant heal will likely never go away, the perk would be too weak without it. So whats left for adjusting is the sprint and the exhaustion ignore. About the sprint, many have already suggested to make Adre only give one, heal OR sprint. So that's nothing new.
BUT, I cannot recal an instance were someone suggested to remove the exhaustion ignore effect. That's a rather new take (atleast for me), so I posted about it. And imo, nerfing that aspect is actually justified just bc. of ther HUD changes.
-
@Hex_Llama said:
On the one hand, it's hilarious that the challenge is just "get Flip-Flop to do what it's supposed to do" and it's ridiculously hard. But on the other hand... how do I do it without SWF?
Here's what I've tried:
- Run Flip-Flop by itself. Not effective. The killer either picks me up immediately or leaves me slugged forever.
- Run Flip-Flop with D-strike. Not effective. D-strike doesn't count for the challenge.
- Run Flip-Flop with Unbreakable/Tenacity. Not effective. The killer either picks me up immediately or refuses to pick me up at all once I crawl to a corner.
- Run Flip-Flop with Boil Over. Not effective. Once the killer finds out I have Boil Over, they refuse to pick me up.
- Run Flip-Flop with Power Struggle. Not effective. I'll never know if Power Struggle would count, because no one walks under a pallet.
Like, literally what do I do? Just run Flip-Flop every match and wait for some random circumstance where I happen to get dropped?
As another one pointed out, try to get hit into deep wound and let the timer run out, so you drop down. The killer will usually come and try to hook you eventually. Just don't make it too obvious. So maybe do a gen until you drop down. In case some random teammate comes to heal you, hold shift to deny it.
How to get deep wound? Play against Legion, or equip OTR, so you can force the killer to hit you after being unhooked. Usually, when they recognize you have OTR bc of no sounds, they will just hit you into mending and drop chase.
-
On survivor side, since all play the same, I'm not interested in P100 anyone. If I had to choose, I would likely take a char I have nice cosmetics with (Kate or Nea). Or I would pick Bill or Jill, since they were my first maxed-out survivors (before prestige update). But generally, I feel it's not worth it on surv side, I don't need myriads of items, and surv addons are mostly not worth it either.
On the killer side, it's a more diverse decision. Since most bloodweb nodes will be addons , it would have to be a killer with overall good addons in any rarity. And of course it should be a killer I really like to play. But those both conditions are not so easy to meet:
Killers with addons worth P100ing (imo): Wraith, Doctor, Pig, Plague (strong iris), Blight, Knight (guard addons)
KIllers I really enjoy playing (nearly) every game: Wraith, Bubba, Nemesis (I also like playing Doctor, Pig or Blight, but those other three are my favorites)
So according to this, the only killer meeting both conditions would be Wraith. So maybe I should really try to get Mr Bing Bong to P100, also there's no Lightburn anymore.
-
@VoidOfMe said:
I was one of the few here that said barbecue wouldn't go anywhere after the "nerf" that removed extra blood points, apparently, killers didn't use it only for BP, huh?
Sorry for sounding entitled, but I was called clueless and worse by people here in the thread I made about it back then:
"Oh, they killed barbecue, no one is gonna use that anymore" except I just went my fifth straight game where the killer was using it. Distortion is now my main build lol.
I'm so waiting for the new stats to bump that 1-year-old thread and get a ban here, but a happy one.
BBQ usage dropped significantly with the removal of the BP bonus, down from 36% to 17% according to nightlight:
https://nightlight.gg/perks/Barbecue_&_Chili
It's still in a pretty solid state, but far from it's former omnipresence. Me personally, I used to run it on each and every killer before path 6.1, just bc of the extra BP. But now I only use it for aura builds with lethal, or with killers that have high mobility.
Talking about lethal, that got buffed with 6.1 to extend aura durations, and thus increased in usage:
https://nightlight.gg/perks/Lethal_Pursuer
Since lethal now buffs BBQ, you could even argue that BBQs pick rate may be a bit boosted due to lethal.
So when you say you got 5 bbqs in a row, I would say you were either unlucky, or faced high tier / mobility killers were using BBQ makes sense. Do you know which killers you faced, by chance?
One last thing, with BBQ being used less, survivors adapted and stopped using it's counters (lockers, hiding behind gen aura, faking a direction). For some even to the point to practically forget about the perk during a trial, only to be reminded by the killer in the worst situations (talking from own exp. here ^^''). That of course works in favor for BBQ, less ppl countering it means more value from it.