CaulDrohn
CaulDrohn
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Many people claim that Ultimate Weapon is the "strongest info" perk but the data doesn't support this. I've highlighted the most used info perks below, and 3 info perks are used significantly more than Ultimate Weapon:
- BBQ and Lethal Persuer have double the usage rate of Ultimate Weapon
- No Where to Hide has somewhat higher usage.
- Discordance and A Nurse's Calling has similar usage
If UW was really the best info perk, its usage rate should be at the top not lower than 3 info perks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JNYIOMZQKEGJ/image.png
https://nightlight.gg/perks/viewer?role=killer&sort=pick&shown=pick&start_days=28
The reality is that UW is a perk used specificaly by killers synergise with it and is not a generic strong info perk:
- Alien: ran due to base kit perk
- Trickster and Huntress: locker synergy
- Wesker: 40 m terror radius synergy
- Oni, Nurse, and Blight: high mobility let's them easily proc Ultimate Weapon
Pick-rate alone does not paint you a clear picture here, you have to take into account how easy it is to aquire the perk. Alien is one of the newest DLCs, and a licensed one, so you have to spend real money for that. With original killers, you can get them with shards. Thats exactly the reason why I do not own alien yet, when I usually buy any killer the release day (waiting for a discount basically).
Compare that to BBQ. Thats also from a licensed features, but Cannibal is years old! The majority of regular players will have access to this. Also BBQ was in the shrine a few times. I myself got BBQ before I bought Cannibal (few years ago).
With lethal, it's also a license feature, but that was the first RE release, with a way bigger hype than Alien chapter. Also you got two survivors with it. And it's also like 2-3 years old already.
Nowhere to hide is from an original DLC, so purchaseble with shards. That alone should increase it's pick rate above UW, if it's roughly the same strength.
All this things considered, it's actually quite impressive for a licensed killer perk of less than a year to reach a pick rat of 7%. Outshining other real good info perks like discordance with ease. So if anything, that pick rate actually tells you how strong that perk is, under the given circumstances.
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@Lit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676035#Comment_3676035
this is what I meant about No Mither - feed blood right to Oni.
So a survivor coming into a game with that perk, buffs Oni to have his power all game. It can (but yes shouldn't) work both ways, but it does.
I still think perks that stop you bleeding (so No mither and Lucky Break) should also stop you from generating blood orbs. Would only make sense.
And it's not like No mither or Lucky Break are super common, so Oni games would be hardly affected.
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Imo with Mangled being nerfed / running out, there's no real reason to hook a person a second time on a scourge hook with GoP anymore. So I feel the repair speed debuff should be applied on first and second hook to compensate for that. It would still be much inferior to PainRes anyway.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672307#Comment_3672307
I read it re read it again and then re read it one more time... Here let me comment something meaningful HYPOTHETICALLY its still a dumb idea. I didn't even look at your profile pic lol. Also I never said you are a killer main I said its what a I never play survivor killer would say you aren't that special not everything is about you. Sorry you got so easily triggered. Think about what I wrote and then come back and write something senseful. Thanks.
If you read it so often, how can you write that I would WANT to have such a mode, when I wrote nothing about that?
Yes it's dumb. I did not deny that. Neither did I confirm that. I just explored how something like that could be enforced. Nothing more, nothing less. You still straw manned me there.
True you did not say I would be a killer main, but you pretty much implied it by your last remark. Still my bad for being imprecise here.
Yes it triggers me a bit if someone totally unrelated to the discussion comes around and immediately trash talks me, without fully understanding what I wrote about.
Your uno reverse "trick" you can skip, it does not add anything useful to the discussion.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672308#Comment_3672308
I agree with your assessment. No way it'd be worth the resources. I also doubt there would be enough support from the players to pursue the idea either. I tend to think of the SWF discussions as largely moot: it's far past time to even consider major changes or clamping down-type rules for them. That time was in when it was introduced like 7 years ago.
The only "benefit" for survivors such a solo mode could include is some restrictions to the killers loadout, so no 4 gen slowdown or something like that. Like a "casual queue". But I'd expect casual swf would want to play such a "casual queue" as well ... like you said, possible not worth the ressources.
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@Ilikechips said:
Good luck getting anything for survivor, let alone solo.
Look at the upcoming patch notes. Only killer buffs. Not a single thing for survivors. Not even an awful perk being buffed.
Solo mode is never going to happen.
Guess what? Killer ALSO did not get perk buffs!
But when we want to compare perks, why not look at the new perks? Sables perks are actually fine, after the PTB changes. Unknowns perks are meh.
Yes killers got buffs ... mostly got add-ons that felt mandatory to use incorporating into base kit. And most of them are B to D tier killers. So they actually need some buffs. Buffs to Hag and Huntress may be a bit unnecessary, that's right.
You know what else killers get in the next patch? A HEAVY mangled nerf! But sure, survivors don't get anything with the next patch.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671844#Comment_3671844
Most of the DBD playerbase is on one of the consoles, not on Steam or Epic or Windows. So there already is no pre-game chat box being used there at all, nor are they on Discord. Xbox and the PlayStations all come with built-in party voice chat that is very easy to use and connect with, and is entirely independent of that game is being played. That is what I mean by saying it's unenforceable.
As far as making all lobbies only random solo players, we need to keep in mind around half of all survivors are in at least a two-man group already. Forcing all randoms would likely kill DBD, as others here have said. I agree about hiding profiles that should happen.
Didn't think of consoles, you are right. So such a hypothetical solo mode would also have to be limited to pc versions only.
I do not want to force anyone to play solo. I was just referring to OPs proposal of a solo mode with (likely) no voice chat, and your reply that it wouldn't be enforcable. I still think it could be enforced, although only with the heavy restriction that it's only possible for pc versions (as you pointed out) and the adjustments I wrote initially.
Would it be a good thing? Most likely not.
Would it be worth the effort? Hell no.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671844#Comment_3671844
Oh so you want them to make the game not playable with friends.... LOL yea sorry that's the fastest way a game will die imagine buying a multiplayer game and not being able to play it with friends. player base 32k to 1k in 1 day. No offense but this is killer main never plays survivor logic.
No I don't want that. You are wrong. Neither did I wrote that I'd want that. Classical strawman argument, nicely done. I'm not even a killer main. Having Nemi as a profile pic does not make me a Nemi main.
All I was saying is how to HYPOTHETICALLY enforce a Solo mode OP was talking about. I did not say ANYTHING about whether that would a good or dumb idea.
So pls, first read what ppl are talking about, try to comprehend what they are saying, and then comment something senseful. Thank you.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671775#Comment_3671775
Without Voice Chat maybe? I'm not sure either.
But I don't see how that could be enforced.
It could be enforced when its guaranteed 4 randoms, with no pre game chat and player profiles hidden, so there's no way to know with whom you are playing, and you are not able to share some discord or ts url beforehand.
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@TheSaltySaloon said:
I don't even know what to say that hasn’t been said 1.3 billion times before but almost EVERYONE is tunneling and I’m sick of dealing with it.
combine that with this current insufferable killer meta of Scourge Hook, Deal lock, dead man’s switch etc and this has become one of the most unbearable era’s of this game ever.
it’s so bad that the first 2-3 minutes of matches now are just survivors crouch walking everywhere for fear of being the first one seen.
something has got to change…
Meanwhile, I'm playing killer with random perks and trying to spread hooks, and get hit with all the stuff survivors can throw at me: Styptics, Syringes, BNPs, genrushing from hell, multiple adre, and to top it off, Ftp+BU to even deny me one kill at 6-8 hooks (bc obv. I tunneled, that combo would NEVER be used in other situations, right?). If I'm extra lucky, I'll get trash talked in end game.
The game can be pretty frustrating both sides, esp. when the other side does not show any mercy. I cannot really blame any killer for choosing to tunnel OR running multiple slowdown at this point. Using BOTH though ... that's really cheap/lazy, esp. on high tier killers like Nurse and Blight.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I had game today where I had 10 hook stages, everyone got their chance to play and I wasn't really target much anyone, had lot of hooks, etc.
Then someone endgame talks like "hey killer you are so trash only two kills". When I responded with something like "I had 10 hooks I think that's pretty good" they just "nah trash killer lol". Like I thought its good think when everyone gets to play and killer doesn't just go pure for kills.
Like people complaing about tunneling and camping but when you play "nice" or give them a chance some survivors think you are bad or something, idk.
I don't understand Survivors anymore. Everything killer does is wrong.
Some players are just sore losers.
Few weeks ago I had a game where I 11 hooked the survivors, and the last one got out by hatch (did not slug for the 4k). In after game chat, one of the killed survivors trash talked me that I'm so bad and I lost the game. I point out that I got 11 hooks. But according to them, doesn't matter since only a 4k would be a win for the killer.
I was awestruck by such a display
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@TheycallmeLix said:
As long as tunneling is the game, with Pop+Pain Res meta this combo is totally fine imo. I’ve rocked it a couple of times and Killers just wait it out. It’s not that strong like everyone keeps saying. Just skill issue
Ok, so I'm just bad when they use it in end game to get a free escape? DS and OTR explicitly disable in endgame to not allow free escapes. Why is FTP+BU allowed to keep it?
If the purpose of the combo is help against tunneling, why does the FTP user get endurance themselves? This makes the combo not just anti-tunnel, but anti-down. Totally invalidating a whole chase the killer spent their time for. It's a very potent effect, and imo simply to powerful for endgame. Esp. when it's more often the nice, easy-going killers that get hit by it (bc the ruthless killers will make sure to tunnel out ppl to win the game, waiting the combo out).
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@Pulsar said:
I think I've played around 500 Killer games since it was buffed.
I've had it used less than ten times on me and of those ten times, it was meaningful twice.
It's great at stopping a tunnel out and giving that player a little more time. I don't have any real issues with it.
Deactivate the endurance effect in end game (of FTP), and I'm fine with it keeping the synergy.
FTP+BU is a free escape in end game. DS and OTR deactivate in end game to not allow free escapes. But FTP+BU just work regardless. Why? Disabling the endurance for the ftp user in end game would give the killer the chance to trade.
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641470#Comment_3641470
I know that chases were crazy back in the day, I played through it but now it went to another extreme we have killers that can hit through pallets, walls, teleport, rush. But survivors got boons... which are quite useless unless the killers is literally blind and cannot spot the totem. You can even see the blue particle in the air and that's a dead giveaway of the general location of the boon. Last game I played I could see the blue particles from across the Knight's map, then next thing I know that person's boon was gone and quite frankly boon cons outweigh the pros imo.
You clearly missed the part where I said the game needs new game modes. I did not say to change the BASE game but it would benefit from having variety and fun game modes that are not as serious.
As for game modes it literally could be anything, 2 killers 8 survs, lights out (that they are working on now), special in game power ups.. ANYTHING maybe new surv Items.
I am speaking from the POV of a survivor. As a killer you can easy switch killers to change things up but as a survivor they're ALL the same.
Also like I probably mentioned before I just play casually these days usually if a friend wants me to join them, I just wanted to voice my opinion as someone who's been playing since the early days.
You can see the boons aura only as survivor, the killer does not see it. I'm fairly certain the killer also has to come closer to the boon to actually hear it. It's not as easy for the killer as you claim it to be. Esp. when the killer often does not have time to go snuff a boon.
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@TangledNoodles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641448#Comment_3641448
I'm pretty sure a med kit can only fully heal you now if it has addons now and it's way slower than before anyways considering you're wasting a whole item to heal yourself it shouldn't be so slow considering the pace of the game is much faster these days.
Tell me how many times you see flashlight in your lobby and how many people even know how to land a blind? Also lightborn these days doesn't make it take longer to blind but it negates it completely.
My main point of the post was survivor game play and how stale it's been since the game inception.
Also you're just justifying using items with the help of perks and addons. Why waste so many resources to make something good?
You don't have to take my post serious I'm just a casual dbd player that has been playing for years. I just wanted to voice my POV on survivor gameplay knowing that nothing will change and to see if others feel the same.
And lastly My main point of the post was survivor game play and how stale it's been since the game inception. All a survivor can do is run and do gens which is fine but it gets old and that's why games have different game modes. But the devs are so fixated on making mediocre outfits that they forgot to keep the game fresh.
You are simply wrong. A med kit without addons heals you full once. If you miss a skill check or get interrupted with hemo, then it won't heal you full, but that a misplay from your side then.
Yes, the med kits have been slowed down. You could argue that it might be too much (although you can mitigate that pretty effectively with speed or skill check add-ons), but we are coming from a situation where medkits could heal you in 8s, multiple times. That was totally broken and got a well deserved nerf.
You know what's funny? Med kits altruistic healing was actually BUFFED! If you want fast heals, just let someone else heal you with a med kit, or heal someone else with yours. Yet no one does that. Or use we'll make it. Fast heals still exists, but they take some more investment now than just equipping one op item.
I see flashlights way to often for my taste (playing killer). Often have multiple games in a row with two or more flashlights. And I get blinded constantly from the stupidest angles, even when I'm doing everything I can do dodge it. Blinding is stupidly easy in the current game. Lightborn is there to help me get a chill round, not having to mind being blinded.
I even agree to you that the game might be stale for survivors. That's why I mostly play killer. But undermining that with hyperbole and just plain wrong facts does not help you your argumentation.
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@TangledNoodles said:
Survivor gameplay is so stale, most of the perks are situational, the good/decent ones get nerfed into the ground.
With each new killer they have new mechanics for their power and addons. Survivors get... a skin with 3 mediocre perks most of the time.
Survivor gameplay has been practically the same for the last 7 years, the only new thing that was added was boons... wow.
Playing dead by daylight feels like a toxic relationship (for me) I want to quit but I still come back from time to time to check in and I'm just disappointed every time.
Looping is a thing of the past, half the new killers can hit you through them. Flashlights have been nerfed, med kits can't even fully heal you anymore, a toolbox last 5 secs. Meanwhile killers have endless tracking perks and counters. Fine looping was crazy back in the day but that was a survivors only way to stay alive and buy time. The maps are smaller and killers have more tracking perks.. make it make sense.
This game desperately needs new game modes or fun casual modes where people aren't so sweaty and have some variety for BOTH killer and survivor. The game is great and exciting when you first get into it and that's what reels people in, but at some point most people will hit a wall and the game just becomes boring and repetitive. (On the survivor's side at least)
I'm don't think the devs really care, because if old players quit they will just be replaced with new ones and the cycle continues. So why bother improve when you have the formula?
There's so much wrong in just one paragraph (the fifth):
1.) Flashlights NERFED?? With the addition of the the buffer, it's the EASIEST it ever was to get a blind. Take Background player to the mix, and you can get a blind even from insane distances.
2.) Med kits were nerfed yes, but EVERY kit heals you once now. Equip some good add-ons, and you get two heals out of it. That's perfectly reasonable. Having a single med kit that can heal you up to 4 times with insane speed, THAT was broken!
3.) Toolboxes we're not changed AT ALL in the recent time! The last change to it was a BUFF to the charges! Commodious toolbox still holds extremely long, and with extra charges and perks like Built to Last or Scavenger, you can get value out of it the entire game. That 5s you mention does only apply to Engineers toolbox. And like I said, it's like this for AGES. Complaining about that fact now is so weird!
If you manage to put that much misinformation in just a single sentence, I cannot take your post serious at all.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
It got removed because the player base is soft like Charmin. No surprise that there's been a continual dumbing down of gameplay.
A 3-man hatch escape at one gen left, when you worked hard to get the upper hand of the match, finally gaining the advantage, only to get it robbed from you by the use of a single item. That was one of the most stupid, frustrating, demoralizing situations in DBD history.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623780#Comment_3623780
Right, but we are discussing how this creates a potential strategy for survivors where they intentionally 3 gen themselves, stall the game out, prerun every gen and basically make it so the killer can't regress gens anymore and then slowly working on them until they complete the gens. This is actually probably going to be a highly effective strategy.
Thus creating a loop where, yeah now the killer can't "stall the game out forever" instead the survivors can, but now its not forever, they just stall it out for a long time until the killer literally can't stop them anymore.
If that really turns out to be the case (which I'm not convinced about at all), then maybe Ruin rises to meta again. Bc Ruin allows you to start regression without using a stack. Sure it's still a hex, but when survivors are dead set on creating a 3 gen fast, they won't bother to look for a hex (or two, if you also bring Undying).
I also want to point: Even on live, when you get to a 3-gen situation, with all survivors still alive, the killer will lose most of the time. So even if your prediction turns out to be true, that doesn't really change much.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
Kiss nowhere to hide and trail of torment goodbye. Now you're punished for using them because it takes up pressure regression charges.
If you run that perks bare without any additional regression effects, you will NEVER hit that limit when not actively enforcing it, esp. with trail of torment. ToT has a 60s cooldown after the effected gen stopped regressing (which takes more time now too). So for a single gen to run out of charges by using ToT, you need 8 minutes just for the cooldown to wear off. Half of your games will be done after that time.
For Nowhere to hide, I cannot recall a single game where I kicked a gen for the aura more than like 4 times (if not actively 3-genning). Sure if you add some more Pain Res, Pop and whatever to the mix, you might reach the max charges. But then you deserve that unregressable generator, imo.
Regression charges limit the amount of regression a generator can receive, thats a good thing to me. The minimum regression for 8 charges will be 20%, plus 8 times 4.5s to remove regression. Thats already pretty significant. And in reality, that regression will be much more, with Pain Res and Pop, or even just kicking the gen 8 times will sum up to 40% regression until the charges are used up.
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@ElodieSimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620172#Comment_3620172
Can't really take these posts seriously anymore as it's mostly killer mains upset about it because they feel entitled to the bloodpoints. While the survivor is getting tunneled and watching their team mates spinning across the map. I'd rather just die on hook and go next.
What are you rambling about?
As a killer, I don't mind survivors giving up on hook at all. It just makes my games alot easier.
But when I play survivor (mostly soloQ), this ######### screws the whole team, esp. when we were doing good until then. If it's a lost cause, sure, but why do some players give up on hook when we are down to one gen, no 3-gen situation, with something like 3 hooks total? I lost so many games that could have easily be won with 2 / 3 man escapes because of this.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620032#Comment_3620032
well what if someone's trying to get a sick flashlight save off the hook then they would be thrown in the same boat or what if they have to leave for an irl situation and dont want a dc penalty maybe they're cpu crashed 2 times while playing and now they will have like a 30 min penalty. Theres many reasons I for one dont play this game to do gens and get out I play to get content and cool clips so i try it all the time to get the 4 %.
And you think it's FINE to rob your team of any winning chances repeatedly just so you get your funny clips?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614035#Comment_3614035
You're missing the point.
It goes beyond making him viable, which yes I knew and still know how to do.
It is about losing what is precious to you. You, my friend, has Nemesis in your profile picture, so I presume he is your main. If not, try to follow my line of thought with your favorite killer.
Imagine you wake up tomorrow and Nemesis is straight up gone. Instead, you get a killer with the exact same appearance, but with a vastly different power that you despise. It is stronger, objectively speaking, but you hate it.
That wouldn't feel good. I know it wouldn't, because that is what I felt in July in 2019.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614053#Comment_3614053
Exactly.
Not as weak as everyone said, and also extremely easy to fix.
I don't really main a certain killer, I play all of them (some less than others, ofc), apart from Xeno and Chucky, which I do not own yet. So I'm not really invested in any particular character. If the devs want to change some killer power, they'll do it, irrelevant of what that makes me feel. So I'll go along with it.
I certainly understand what you mean about losing your precious killer. So the rework sucks from a "killer identity" perspective. But from a power design / mechanical perspective, the rework was totally fine for the time being (but didn't age so well / was hit with too many nerfs afterwards). That's all I'm saying, and that's why I put Freddy in the mixed category.
You are totally free to disagree, and see it of the worst rework of all time. I just think from an objective perspective, taking into account the time the change came and not falling into the nostalgia trap, the rework was okay(ish).
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613480#Comment_3613480
Oh come on, please have some empathy.
Do you know how awful it felt as an Old Freddy main to see your killer GONE? When you know there were better ways to fix him?
That was terrible. Freddy's rework isn't just a miss, it is the biggest failure of them all.
Yes you could make him somewhat viable, but that requires some heavy aid of his dream transition add-ons (and old class photo, I guess).
Old Freddy was helpless while survs were still in dream transition. The amount of times I had to witness the survs finishing a gen or opening a gate in my face without anything I could do was countless. Old Freddy was original yeah, but also awfully weak (at least for the casual killer player). And still a nightmare to newer players (pun intended).
Yes the rework totally destroyed his identity, but that does not automatically make the reworked power design bad. No one would bat an eye if a new killer had been released with this exact power. Imo with Freddy it's just the nostalgia kicking in hard.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613480#Comment_3613480
Sadako is awful to play right now. She lost what made her unique and became and even worse soloq stomper than she already was.
#bringbackSadako
Freddy was considered "fun" because he was legit overtuned. Everyone enjoys a "win-Button". Freddy was that. Super low effort, very high payoff.
I disagree, for me Sadako is more fun now, which stems from the fact that her tapes are actually used now. Before the rework, they were practically non-existent. But everyone their own opinion, that's why I put her into mixed.
But Freddy wasn't such a "win-button" right after the rework. The whole Forever-Freddy meta took some time to gain traction. Before that became an issue, the rework was considered fine. Do not forget, his teleport to gens was a new thing, only new Freddy and Demo could do this, so that obviously was very cool to see at this time. Also fake pallets were considered stronger right after the rework. Freddy rework was certainly interesting and creative at that time, his whole boring-stigma came WAY later.
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@bloodyknife said:
Freddy, Legion, Hillbilly, Onryo, Skull Merchant, and now Trickster. Who's next? Twins or maybe Singularity by making him worse than he already is?
This has to stop.
I feel you are so off with that sentiment, at least with past reworks. The recent ones where more miss than hit, I'll give you that. But overall there changes to killers (reworks and adjustments) were good more often than not:
Good reworks / power tweaks:
- Trapper
- Wraith
- Nurse (making her less oppressive and more healthy to the game)
- Doctor (!)
- Cannibal (!)
- Clown
- Spirit
- Legion (don't know why you place them as bad, honestly)
- Ghostface
Mixed reworks / power tweaks:
- Deathslinger
- Onryo (More tape interactions now)
- Skull Merchant (No more chess merchant!)
Bad reworks / power tweaks:
- Billy
- Trickster
Freddy gets his own tier:
- His rework was initially received quite well! At that time, Freddy with his original kit was considered F tier, hated by most survivors and killers. He needed one specific set of addons to stand a chance at all. Its funny how the Freddy nostalgics in this forum always fail to mention that. Or they simply forgot.
- The rework made him strong enough to compete against most teams. He was still hated by survivors (bc of Forever Freddy Builds), but at least he was fun to play as now (or not as frustrating as before).
- Poor guy didn't age so well, he received numerous nerfs, placing him back into D tier again.
- Expectations changed somehow, so Freddy is now considered "boring" by the majority of the community, although that certainly was not the case right after the rework.
- Also relevant to mention, while many suggest the the original kit would only have needed incpacitated for dream transition, that type of effect was not part of the game when the rework happened. It was later added when Twins joined the game.
- Overall, I wouldn't call the Freddy rework a miss, it just did not age very well over the years!
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610490#Comment_3610490
How about this: You can't 4% in the first 6 minutes, but the number of dead, dying or hooked survivors decreases this by 1 minute per each. So if there are 4 slugs, at 2 minutes you can try for the hail mary, but if you're the only one on hook you gotta wait until 5 minutes before tapping out
Why so complicated?
Just remove the self unhook penalty on failed attempts alltogether, so you cannot speed up the sacrifice process anymore. Reduce the self unhook chance to compensate (something like 0.1%, to lazy to calculate it), so its roughly the same as now, and that's it.
So players can attempt to self unhook the whole first phase, gives them something to do, at least. Maybe even give them some survivor points for failed attempts.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611113#Comment_3611113
You cant remove the dc penalty as it'd make killers possible to ragequit too, resulting in a very small chance for survivors to ever finish a game by escaping. If killers are anything like survivors, they'd simply rage the moment the gates are powered, legally.
It'd break the game.
You can remove the penalty only for survivors then. While you might say this is unfair for killers, remember that a surv dc'ing does not end the trial, esp. when there's a bot to replace them.
Killer dc'ing stops the game for every player involved, and we have no killer bots (yet), so that type of dc is more "severe" by nature. If we ever have a killer bot replacing the killer player, than we can remove the dc penalty for killer play as well.
But who wants to play the rest of the game against a bot, right? Well, I guess the game needs some vote system then. So when both survivor team (majority vote, bots always vote yes) and killer agree to cancel the rest of the game, it is done so. Players keep their BP earned and progress up to this point.
Such a vote feature would not have to be tied to killer bots, it could be added right away. Might also make sense to have a kick for cheater players.
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You write such a long paragraph, just to say virtually nothing. Did it maybe occur to you to EXPLAIN what the challenge requires you to do? There are >10 tomes with hundreds of challenges, were I cannot even recall the challenge names of the current tome.
So if you want some advice with the challenge, you need to give us more info about it.
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@Wowie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607689#Comment_3607689
Because half the game doesn't function and I'd rather them focus on things that actually impact the long-term health of it. I'm not against it in the future, but it's hardly worth arguing as intently as OP has over it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607560#Comment_3607560
ok! :)
First, half the game not working is a giant exaggeration.
Second, OP is making a suggestion. Devs decide what gets implemented. Also, this very suggestion would be fairly easy to implement.
Third, ever considered that OP is defending it so strongly against you, bc you constantly trash talking him, downplaying it, neglecting every benefit it might had?
You saying you are not against it in the future. That's new to me, bc in your previous answers there was not a single hint of that, only a bazillion iterations of why that suggestion is stupid and why OP is bad.
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@Wowie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607065#Comment_3607065
Interesting advice, Mr. "they should change the game for me and my personal inability to not fat finger my controller"
All they are saying is locking the character when you pressed "Ready" in a Pre-Game lobby (so when the time is ticking down). That's actually a quite reasonable suggestion, why are you so hostile against that?
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597904#Comment_3597904
Yeah, both shouldn't have protection tbh
So you are fine with two players hiding in lockers side by side being totally invincible?
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If it is anti-legion now, it was anti-every-killer-that-injures before.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602224#Comment_3602224
As others have said, just wait a moment then react with a swing/grab when they're vaulting the pallet. Most people don't mind it as much because there is a very simple and effective counter.
Survivors have double map issues as well, especially on controller. Can't tell you how many times I've thrown a pallet or slow vaulted while trying to get rid of pinhead chains, or vacuumed into a locker thats next to a vault I wanted to make.
Or starting to mend / self care when you want to unhook. Easily done with Legion interrupting an unhook with his frenzy. When the hit survivor is not cautious and does not move a tiny bit for the unhook prompt to appear, they will actually start mending. When the Legion player than cancels the power imidiately while the rescuer start mending, they will down them before the unhook goes through.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597904#Comment_3597904
One is an actual locker grab, the other is an animation interruption grab. There is 100% reliable and effective counterplay against it. Wait for the survivor to enter the locker to grab them then. Or just take a step back and swing at them, so as to not end up in the interrupt animation. Interactions like this that require some presence of mind and experience are good for the game, they reward improvement, make the game more interesting. And once you know about this particular interaction and have the control to play around it, you will actually benefit from survivors trying it against you, because often they will not only do so when they would have gone down regardless, but just because someone else is there asking them to do it, or for fun. And the person that came and waited for the save also just wasted all that time.
Good luck trying to grab them when they are inside the locker, when they can just instantly go out again (even slow) to repeat.
Imo that's just abusing a flawed / incomplete implementation. Same as CJ tech, forcing the killer to pickup although they want to kick a pallet.
I perfectly know how to counter this, but it's plain stupid that you have to be wary about such crude situations in the first place.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591095#Comment_3591095
Not really an oversight. It's perfectly counterable. As is the "tech" lined out by the OP. No reason to dumb the game down to an extent where players can do no wrong.
That's got nothing to do with "dumbing down" the game. One locker grab has blind protection, the other not. That's just stupid.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594408#Comment_3594408
Nah, for me it was mostly crack billy that I went against, which was fine. Double recharge was not the only potent stuff, running one engraving and recharge/thompson mix was also a viable option.
Sure, combinations of engravings and recharge/cooldown would work to, but require some more mechanical skill. For players only playing billy from time to time (like me), it was usually much easier to just use double recharge addons to get good results (noob friendly, you could say). But that was it, engravings and recharge/cooldown, the other addons unused, useless, never to be seen (unless killer was meming).
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594126#Comment_3594126
You are correct in those. On the addon front they already showed they can do interesting ideas with billys stealth saw addon. And lopro to go through pallets. Hell lopro didnt exist in original billy. And its one of his best addons now. I have faith on the addon front.
For camping again bubba is king. (And now michael with tombstone as well) and we have anti facecamp. Other killers like trickster screw you more when your being tunneled for how fast they can chew through your endurance and hit you again. Billy has to actually catch back up after a saw or m1.
Also another aspect of him changed some people forget. All the animations. His fov got narrowed to add more counterplay to his saw. So shadowborn is basically basekit on him. And now he feels like hes lethargic looking down all the time and with his limp. Hell even the roar they just thought would be funny to add. They ruined so much of his overall basekit flow outside of just overheat and his addons.Which i hope they are looking to change again.
Didn't know about the fov. About the animations, did that really have an impact on playing billy, or was it more like ppl "lost the feel" of playing billy with this changes, and projected that on some non-existing mechanic changes?
Having difficulties to explain what I mean here. I mean some kind of coping mechanism, billy animations changed, playing billy does not "feel good" anymore, players perform worse out of frustration for the unnecessary changes, and blame it on the change itself.
Although I played the game already when the billy changes came, I was and I am no billy main, so I can't say if there were any significant changes besides overheat and addon rework. All I know is, whenever I play billy nowadays, it tends to be really frustrating. But that's more because of bad maps and optimal survivors than his power being "unusable".
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593842#Comment_3593842
Sure but not everyone ran those addons, they could have just made it so the addons don't stack and he would have been fine.
In my experience when playing at that time, 95% of the killer ran them (me included). Thats also not very surprising, when that were the only potent add-ons to be usable for casual players (billy mains would use engravings as well, of course).
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594126#Comment_3594126
You're not wrong. But mind you, BHVR increased Billy's camping capabilities again when they changed the overheat earlier this year. I and many others explicitly warned them that this would happen. With the AFC that is not as big of an issue anymore but if we're not going to use the overheat to limit camping, then why are we using it at all?
Billy's main issue is the fact, that he wasn't designed for this game. He was designed for what this game used to be. With about 10 maps and sometimes very forgiving collisions and little clutter. Now there are more than 40 maps. 75% of them are awful for this killer and the remaining 25% are somewhat ok. Also, survivors have become a lot better than they were in 2016. Meaning, a curving Hillbilly will not quite get the same hits as back then. Especially without Engravings. It's not getting better when you factor in, that survivors can pre drop pallets and delay him long enough to finish the game that way. One more reason to use LoPros, I guess.
The overheat mechanic at this point does nothing other than to nerf Driftking Billy. You will never overheat by curving (and believe me, I tried). But his mobility was nerfed by that. Not that it makes a big difference, when you can only go across the map in specific lines. Many maps have become somewhat similar to Lery's in that regard. There are 3-4 specific routes you can use for map mobility and that's pretty much it. Then you have maps like RPD... Where your ability is to break pallets slightly faster and GoJ, where your power is a so-so map mobility and sometimes a slightly faster pallet break at the cost of your lethality. And only when survivors don't know how bad this map really is.
In short: Billy aged like fine milk even without the rework.
Very well put ^^
I also thought about AFC, effectively making his overheat redundant. So maybe it should just be removed after all, even if it won't restore Billy to his past prime.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593842#Comment_3593842
Yeah so thats what people pretty much agreed should have changed. Just the addons. Like they are doing with blight now. But they decided to go the extra mile by making all his addons fairly bad. And adding this new mechanic and roar just burning resources on something that didnt need to happen.
Everyone agreed that the insta-chainsaw add-ons needed to change, that's right. And yes, the addon reworks are pretty bad, but let me ask you: What pre-rework addons were worth running besides charge- / cooldown- / speed-addons back then? His other add-ons were bad already before, and with charge and cooldown- add-ons to be removed, there were bound to be more bad add-ons. As some other commenter in this thread put it, there's really not much you can do with billies add-ons, there are not many aspect of his power that can be safely adjusted by some numbers (add-ons are usually number-adjusments).
It was also agreed upon that a billy camping with a fully reved chainsaw is an issue (it was quite prevalent back then, when the killer player performed badly - sort of a budget version of bubba face camping). That's why the overheat was added (this and so chainsaw cannot be spammed). The thought process is actually not wrong there, but maybe the execution of the changes.
Many attribute the "butchering" of billies potential to the overheat mechanic, even when that mechanic does not even come into play for the majority of billy players (imo only curve billies are hindered by that). Many claim to this day that billy would be fun again when just the overheat was removed, but I cannot see how that should be true. Billy was fun and strong (for most casual billy players) because of the charge / cooldown- add-ons, and that add-ons will never come back.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594098#Comment_3594098
I'll stick with that this is a fun issue, not balance.
To be in this scenario survivors must:
1: Make it to the end game. Not just the survivors as a group, but specifically the one who needs to use this perk.
2: The survivor with FTP+Buckle Up to be uninjured (meaning that they could not have used the ability within the last minute + how ever long it took to get healed).
3: The killer to not have seen this during the rest of the game to avoid opportunity to play around it.
This is like NOED or other end game perks by the killer. The survivors don't have any direct way to outplay them (especially that first NOED hit) other than just never letting the killer be in a position to get value from them.
1. Reaching end game is not so difficult for a coordinated team (does not have to be swf necessarily, but they tend to be more coordinated). Esp when the killer plays "fair" and spreads hooks. Only for the survivors to reward this kindness by using a free escape combo.
2. Sure. But they can plan for it, so what's the point?
3. You can be fully aware that the perk is present, and still not have the chance to hit the user, bc that would allow all survivors the escape. That's exactly my point.
The combo creates lose-lose situations in end game for the killrr. DS and OTR do not work in end game to not create such situations, but for "For the buckle" that's fine somehow?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593772#Comment_3593772
yes, it is coping mechanisms. the styptic needle is just to get deep wound effect on chase 1. After that, DH and OTR will provide necessary deep wound effects to activate MFT. If DH was usable in first chase, then styptic needle would be not be needed.
The buff they're talking about is that you can use DH->MFT and it counts as if you were using two exhaustion perks because MFT was an exhaustion perk previously. It is just that current MFT is good for DH because it takes away weakness of DH which is not being able to use DH in first chase while reinforcing the greed pallet gameplay of DH to trigger it. Now your kinda forced to use DH sooner rather then as last resort to chase extension to consider this a buff. Either way, I don't know. Like I tried in the ptb for 10 games. the MFT felt like empty perk slot. DH alone would done virtually same chases after it triggered. That and I am not really enthused in wasting perk for OTR so that killer "hit me". It just feels like a lot of wasted resources and effort to trigger the perk. Even using Boon:Dark theory might be less effort to use then MFT.
Exactly, even if it might be stronger in some niche scenario (which I'm still not convinced about), it might be a dead perk in the majority of games, if you do not enforce it with additional perks / add-ons. Who cares if some comp-level swf can squeeze out some more value out of it than before, when in your regular trials the haste might not even trigger more than a couple of times, for limited duration?
Yep, boon theory is less effort now. But at least the numbers match then, MFT giving more haste for a harder to hit effect.
Imo, the reworked mft is so situational that it might even be possible to INCREASE the haste effect, to make it really hurting for a tunneling killer. Something like 5% would be huge. But I'm not sure if that could be used offensively, e.g. body blocking with endurance. Can we make the change to lose collision on unhooks already?
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@crogers271 said:
Balanced? Yes. Fun? That's a different question.
Balance depends on how it impacts the overall game. To reliably use ftp + buckle up the survivor using it needs to devote 2 perk slots to it, and they have to follow the chased survivor around, meaning he's not on gens. Being he needs to be close to the chase, it creates the possibility of getting caught and an easy hit for the killer.
If the survivor does pull it off, both survivors are now injured and the survivor can't use it for 60 seconds + however long it takes to get a heal. Then the killer can either swing through the endurance, or count to 11 in their head.
Compare this to other means to try and save a downed survivor. A pallet save or flashlight don't cause a survivor to be wounded. A sabotage play is less likely to succeed, but it eats up far more of the killers time. All of those options require less perk combos to pull off.
Is it a good combo? Sure, but you have to trade quite a bit for the benefits.
In the end game, with a gate remotely in proximity, when the killer cannot afford spreading damage bc that would allow all to run out, this combo guarantees free espapes without any risk. I wouldn't call that balanced.
What's mind-blowing about that, the devs are fully aware that some effects are too strong in end game, so they safeguard it. DS, OTR, Pig traps, AFC, eben Batteries Included, all disabling in end game. But then they rework buckle and don't seem to think a second what that could mean in end game.
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@LeChonké said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593689#Comment_3593689
That's a shame. Billy was the most fun killer to play against so why complain about him. Guess they got what they wished for :/
Billy with double charge and cool down add-ons was certainly NOT fun to go against. It was pretty much irrelevant if he missed you with the chainsaw, bc he would be ready to chainsaw 2s later again.
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Totally deserved.
Even when you would argue that the perk itself is fine in strength, it's the enabler of our current no-heal-meta. The synergy with resilience, windows, dh and hope is is just too strong.
Imo, the no-heal-meta MFT enables is the least engaging meta DBD ever had. It's all about not wasting any team healing, just crank out gens with resi, while some other occupies the killer by being very hard to catch due to MFT haste, resi vaults and Windows omni-knowledge, and being virtually uncatchable in end game due to MFT+hope. It's boring beyond relief. Second chance meta at least had tense survivor-killer interactions, as unfair as that may have been with multiple second chance effects.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592955#Comment_3592955
you can't wait out Off the record. it is 80 second of endurance. the perk is more situational but in the situation where your tunnelling off-hook, it is going to trigger. you might see a lot of stypic agent med-kits post-changes for MFT.
Correct, you can't wait out OTR, that's why you smack them and leave them mending. And if you don't, and tunnel further, than MFT haste will hit you, sure. But that's not any different to now! Reworked mft is strong in tunneling situations, that's right, and great also. But, it's STILL just as strong as current MFT in that situation, and drastically weaker in others.
As if styptics are rare on live. But still, it's only one time use, and has short duration, so this one CAN be waited out in may situations. And even when you manage the styptic play and get the MFT haste, that's STILL just the same as chasing an injured one with MFT on live.
It all comes down to the same: When you manage to get into deep wound, you get the powerful haste effect. But that effect is the same as on live, it is not stronger. But the activation is way more situational. And that alone makes the rework far weaker than the live version. Justified imo. I just don't understand why so many ppl here try to frame the change as a buff in some situations, is it some kind of coping mechanisms?
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592955#Comment_3592955
just remenber my words , is gonna be problematic all over again . also aint reading all that ...holy..
Dude, even when they force you to hit them during endurance, from this point on its STILL just the same as current MFT. The only thing that might help is being able to activate your exhaustion perk (but not DH, since you are in deep wound already, and prob. no sprint burst, since it's mostly used at the start of the chase), so lithe or balanced landing.
Another very important thing: The killer knows when to expect MFT with this change! So even when you force them to hit you during endurance, they can drop the chase after hitting you in deep wound, and not fall into the MFT haste trap. That is actually huge, half of current MFTs strength is killers not recognizing the haste and continuing with an unfavorable chase.
When the killer is not chasing you in deep wound, you will have to mend eventually, to not be useless for your team. And chance is, next time they find you you have no endurance ready.
So I still don't how someone can claim MFT might be stronger in some situations. The perk is way more situational than before, even when you manage to force a deep wound, it's still just as strong as now, and deep wound gives the killer a strong indication whether the perk might be active, in contrast to now. Which allows to not fall into the haste trap.
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@Chaosrider said:
First, BHVR never had a balance philisophy to begin with. Second, think about logic for yourself at least. Survviros getting rewarded for doing their objective by just playing with two pekrs and sacrifing the rest for a mere 2 or 3 minutes. Killers meanwhile can use that perks during the game by just playing the game (gens get done by default gameplay) and getting a massive reward at the point they mostlikely failed to do their objective without any downside. Double standards from killers as always.
When a killer gets benefit from Batteries included during the game, before all gens get done, they are prob. performing badly. No sane killer should chase survivors around finished gens, except when the gen was finished in their face. The perk works best at an end game perk, imo. But that was cut off completely with this post-ptb nerf.
Also, what's that nonsense about failing the objective? The killers objective is to kill the survivors, not to protect gens. Sure it helps in killing when you can delay the gens, but it's not required. That's where endgame builds come into play. Noed+BI would have been a strong endgame combo, but it will never the light in live.
Thats sad imo, bc a strong endgame combo like this might have the power to reduce the prevalence of full regression builds in favor for endgame builds. Imo endgame builds are more fun and intense for both parties, compared to lame-ass full gen-regression. Isn't that something we should be aiming more?
But no, too many survivors demand to get their escape once all gens done. That there's still the end game phase to be played out and to potentially die, that's uncalled for, right?
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So many here claiming that the post Ptb nerf is justified, while for me it's an unnecessary nerf to an already bad /situational perk. Also the combo with noed is only dangerous on weaker killers, nurse and blight do not benefit from / need it at all.
I did not play Ptb, did someone experience that combo at the Ptb and found it being problematic? or are we all just assuming?
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@Avo said:
Killer mains trying to not complain about survivor perks while they're playing with op addon and perks (Difficulty: Impossible)
I regularly play with random perks and brown/yellow add-ons. Am I allowed to complain then?