CaulDrohn
CaulDrohn
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@Avo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592955#Comment_3592955
You also forgot the latency, sometimes even if you hit to deadhard it doesn't work
Absolutely, another aspect that makes it harder to even activate the haste of new MFT.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Ruin was nerfed so that it is removed from the Builds. We have a few Perks on boths sides which did either not need a Nerf or did not need such a severe Nerf. I think Ruin would have been fine if it would not be changed at all, since the main reason why it was problematic was Tinkerer. And with Tinkerer being nerfed to only activating one time per Gen, I think Ruin could have stayed at 200% Regression and not deactivate when a Survivor died.
And if they still wanted to nerf Ruin, they could have deactivate it when a Survivor is dead. Because I think this is a fair Nerf. It will not happen often, but when it happens, the Killer is most likely in a good spot anyway, so deactivating Ruin would just give the other 3 Survivors a better chance in a game they probably already lost anyway. But the Regression-Nerf made the Perk too weak.
And, as as I said, there were Nerfs on both sides which happened. But again, the main reason was to remove those Perks from the Meta. Because in the end, the Meta-Shakeup did not really happen. If I look at the Killer-Meta, it is still stacking Slowdown, just different Slowdown-Perks than before. Same for Survivor, we see the same type of Perks, just different ones.
Overall, 6.1.0 was a failure, if we just ask "Did the Devs really change the Meta?"... The answer has to be "No".
"Overall, 6.1.0 was a failure, if we just ask "Did the Devs really change the Meta?"... The answer has to be "No"."
WHAT???
Esp. survivor meta is a difference between night and day, with hardly any perk seeing top usage in both metas.
Survivor meta was BT, DH, DS, UB, IW. You don't see any BT an IW anymore, DS and UB is used sometimes, only DH sees some significant usage. Current survivor meta not existent then (some like MFT literally). WoO and hope had only niche usage before 6.1, Adre the only today meta perk that was as strong back then. Even the core concept is different, before 6.1 it's a second chance meta, now it's a stay injured meta.
Killer had gen regression before and after, that's right, but the individual perks changed significantly as well. Ruin totally dead, pop pretty much non existent until they upped it to 30% of current progress with the last change. OC+COB brought Gen kick meta, which was a failed concept. But it was a significant concept change to prior 6.1. Granted we are in a similar state with killer meta now. But still the base kit changes allow for playing more creative builds without totally throwing games.
Overall, the 6.1 patched changed the meta significantly, esp for survivor. Claiming otherwise is just delusional, imo.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/397972/dead-hard-to-made-for-this-to
unpopular opinion: the changes to MFT just made the perk even more powerful for survivors on higher MMR and the deep wound change will just encourage people to run endurance addons on their medkits 24/7 and bodyblock with OTR.
Sorry, but that is BS.
First of all, just to activate the haste is considerably more difficult / situational with the reworked mft. Getting injured is no challenge whatsoever, just get hit, that's it. Getting into deep wound requires you to get hit while having endurance. To get endurance, you have to get unhooked (max 2 times per match) or use perks (max 2 times with OTR/DH, situational with other perk effect) or a styptic (one time use). And endurance can be waited out by the killer, if they expect you to have it.
Deep wound also reduces the "active duration" of the haste effect massively. You will only get the effect for a long time when the killer continues chase after endurance hit. But when they drop chase, you have to mend eventually to proceed with the objective, or be useless keeping the deep wound. That's not needed with current MFT, you can just stay injured and have the haste the whole time.
The only positive change MFT will get is the removal of the non-exhausted condition. So you get some more synergy. But the most effective exhaustion perk in this context, DH, worked with MFT before already, with the new MFT just changing the order of activation (first Dh, then MFT).
So summarized:
New MFT is harder to activate. It can be denied by the killer (waiting out endurance). It's not active as long, unless tunneled / hard-focuses (and even than it's just the same as old MFT). You cannot keep it active when not chased. It gets some more synergy, although not really changing anything for MFT+DH. It cannot be deactivated by killer perks /add-ons anymore, but that's honestly irrelevant, since the effect is dependant on deep wound now.
So how on earth is this BETTER in any situation than the current MFT, even in comp setting? Current MFT is universally active, new one will be situational.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591118#Comment_3591118
Why most players use Windows Of Oportunity then? Even experienced players like to use it?
Bc the survivors defences change (pallets get destroyed), and being chased is a dynamic process, were you have to make decisions quickly. Windows helps in making the best decisions.
Gens do not move, they stay at their place, there is no dynamic process involved (if the gens were to float around and change their place e.g. when not being worked on, that would be a different topic, than Deja Vu would actually help you keep track of ever-changing 3-gens). If you are observant enough and know of the usual gen spawns, you don't need Deja Vu auras. The perk sure helps in identifying them, so you don't waste any time finding the 3-gens. But you COULD invest some time to find out the gen structure, it does not change, and from this point on, Deja Vu auras are meaningless for you. Deja Vu without speed boost is a beginner perk for finding important gens, and would not have any high pick rate. The speed boost makes it a (near-)meta-perk with a significant pick rate.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591504#Comment_3591504
Except if the killer locks down a 3-gen from the start, like with Chess Merchant, the aura reading is irrelevant because ultimately there'll only be three gens left, and you'll know all three locations after the first 30 minutes trying to break the 3-gen.
The speed is the primary value, the aura supports it.
If the aura was that valuable, Visionary would have a use.
I don't agree with that. The speed boost is too small for reliably breaking a heavy guarded 3-gen. You still need the team keeping the killer busy to break the 3-gen. And if you really want to counter pick against hardcore 3-genning, potential energy works way better in that context.
Imo, Deja Vu gets picked to prevent 3-gen situations from happening, at least that's the reason I'm equipping it.
Visionary lost it purpose completely when Deja Vu got it's timer removed. Before that, visionary was at least longer active than Deja Vu. Now, even if the aura deactivation condition would be removed (why is that still a thing??) it would still be worse.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591191#Comment_3591191
I'm more so pointing out that the aura reading isn't necessarily the reason the perk became popular.
What else then? The gen speed increase alone is hardly usable when you don't know where it applies. The aura is the core part of the perk, gen speed is secondary.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591196#Comment_3591196
You can use Third Seal for protect other totems ofcourse but i still don't think Third Seal could work like Plaything.
First Plaything is personal hex because affected survivor is seeing totem's aura. That's how this perk balanced. Unless you bring something to protect your totems, survivor most likely will find and cleanse totem.
Now if we are gonna make Third Seal personal hex, it also need to show totem's aura to affected survivor by balance wise. But this could not work because Third Seal is blocking auras. It would create some balance issues.
And there is another issue, you can't use both perks together if they change Third Seal. You know each hex perk needs their own dull totem. They are not working like Boons. But we only have 5 dull totems, so both perks could not work together as well. Like let's say you already affected 2 survivors with Third Seal and Plaything, this means 4 dull totems already used. Next time you hook survivor, which perk will affect them Third Seal or Plaything. Because only one dull totem left.
"Personal hexes need to show their aura to the affected player"
Why? Plaything has this stipulation, but that does not mean that other personal hexes need to have it.
Personal hexes work on a player-basis, so there's some trigger that applies the hex to the player, but only them. In order to do so and to keep track who is hexed, a totem ignites for each affected player.
That's how I would define personal hexes. The aura is part of Plaything, and not required for other hexes.
"You can't use both together"
That's why I said it would need to be changed to place all personal hex effects on the same totem.
So you get hit, one random totem ignites and applies Third seal to it. Then you get hooked, plaything ALSO applies to the that hex totem. When the totem gets found and cleansed, both the Hexes go away. But only for you.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591176#Comment_3591176
Third Seal could not work like Plaything. Plaything is showing totem's aura to affected survivor whenever they are so close. Third Seal is blocking auras.
But isn't it the same on live, with Third Seal being a separate hex totem? I though third seal prevents Plaything aura, since its a pink one, not a white. So it wouldn't really be any different. Third seal would help avoid detecting the plaything totem, like it's doing now. But it wouldn't be possible to remove it with a single cleanse like now, but has to be removed on a per-person basis. Would make it a little stronger, imo (Blindness being reworked is part of the deal here).
The problem with Third Seal is, in 80% of games it is cleansed before it had any meaningful effect. Plaything only activates when it has an effect on the survivor, and I feel Third Seal should work the same, being a personal effect just like Plaything.
For global hexes like Ruin or Huntress Lullaby, such a "personal hex" approach does not work, obviously. They should be changed to reveal themselve / create the hex totem only when applying their effect for the first time. Would not change much for ruin, but would help Huntress Lullaby alot, it being cleansable only after someone being hooked or missing a skill check.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591118#Comment_3591118
Only with the last change, aura being unlimited, the perk finally was recognized and picked into builds.
I think there's a big extenuating circumstance involved in this though.
Deja Vu acquired permanent aura reading in June, but around that time, maybe a little later, the Chess Merchant debacle also kicked off, which saw 3-genning skyrocket in popularity. That obviously makes the repair speed boost to 3-gens massively increase in value too.
Thats also correct.
But even now, with Chess merchant butchered, Deja Vu is the 7th most picked perk with a pick rate of 12%, according to Nightlight. It even increased pick rate in the last weeks.
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Some rules for me to let a survivor escape or not:
- If you bm'ed or annoyed me during the game or played overly selfish at the end (not unhooking a teammate even though you had ample time to do so safely), you most likely won't get any mercy.
- If your whole team threw the game by giving up, killing on hook, I'll let you out. But I won't farm with you, if you waste my time, chance is you get killed for it.
- If you are the last survivor, admit defeat to me (standing still / not running away or sacrifice your item) and I most likely let you escape.
- If there are still more than one survivors, I'll not let you run free, even when admitting defeat. But if you are dead hook and others don't, I might let you slugged to find some target (I usually spread hooks if I can afford it).
Of course all that is not set in stone and may vary depending on my daily mood.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Let's discuss about this effect in general, what problems it has and what can make it fixed.
For me, it's pretty useless against SWF teams while stomping solo teams.
So this reason makes this effect pretty weak and unhealthy same time. I am rarely seeing killers are using blindness perks and add-ons. Except Ultimate Weapon ofcourse but who is using this perk for Blindness anyway.
I actually have idea for fix problem and make it worth to get:
- Blindness is no longer blocks survivor auras. This effect was useless against SWF teams and it only hurt solo teams.
- Blindness is still blocking loop auras, this effect is works for all survivors. There is no reason to change it.
- It still blocks gen, chest etc auras as before. No reason to change.
- New effect: Survivor vault speeds reduced by x%. Now this makes sense since blindness makes survivors hard to see by lore wise. If your view is not clear, you can't jump effectively. Ofcourse this will be strong effect, so some add-ons and perks can get rework or time reducation nerfs. Except Third Seal because it's hex perk. It supposed to be strong.
I would say blocking additional auras is fine (yellow and pink ones), but basekit survivor auras (red ones for hooked / dying state) should never be blocked. If additional survivor auras would not be blocked (e.g. bond / kindred), Blindness would only prevent auras from pallets, walls, killer and additional objectives (totem & chest). I feel that would be too less to run any blindess perk or addon.
I'm also not so fond of the vault speed reduction, for me thats not really related. And it might not even be strong enough at all (depending on the value, ofc). But if we want to stick with the vault altering aspect, removing fast vaults alltogether would be more meaningful. Although that may be too strong then. But otherwise, blindness is the weakest effect, so an additional effect should be powerful to make blindness addons / perks worth running.
Another suggestion I (and others) have is blindness applying actual visual impairment. I'm thinking about the visual restrictions during Nightfall from Dredge. This can really throw you off, since you cannot see past 10 or 15 meters. Such an effect would be very fitting, and it is powerful, since the killer would see you normally, but you wouldn't see past x meters, so even non-stealth killers could sneak up on you, esp in combination with obliviousness (e.g. Third Seal + Plaything). If you ever tried to find the exit gate while in Nightfall with the EGC timer about to run out, you know how devastating this reduced vision can be ^^.
(Small detour about Third Seal: Third seal should be changed to work similar to plaything, creating a totem for the affected survivor. Plaything would then be put on top of this hex. So when the totem is cleansed/blessed, it would deactivate both effects.)
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
What would a blind focused build look like on a killer?
Hex: third seal, UW, ??, ??
Mindbreaker and Septic Touch
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589328#Comment_3589328
Before the buff aura effect was different and had time limit. So do not say wrong things, please. And I dissagree. People mostly use this perk becaue of Aura Reading Mechanic.
I'm not saying wrong things. Maybe a bit inaccurate, I give you that.
Deja Vu received three buffs/changes over the time. The longest time it was giving gens auras at the start of the match for one minute. That was it's weakest form, and no one played it for good reason.
Then it was changed to give 3-gen aura for 1 min at the start and after a gen is done. This was a significant buff, but the perk would still not be picked.
Then the gen speed buff was added (but duration stayed). So another slight buff. Was it picked then? No, still too weak.
Only with the last change, aura being unlimited, the perk finally was recognized and picked into builds.
I agree that having unlimited aura may be the stronger effect than the gen speed buff. But I still think the speed buff is required for the perk to be actually picked. Without it, there's no reason to pick it if you have some game knowledge where the most notorious 3-gens are on the maps. Deja Vu aura makes this just easier for you.
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A bit off-topic, but there's also a "tech" regarding lockers and blinds. Locker blinds were removed some patches ago, so when you take someone out of a locker, you cannot be blinded anymore. But that only applies when they are fully inside the locker. When they are just entering it and you as a killer interrupt that by a grab, you CAN be blinded!
So the tech is, when the killer is about to down you, find a locker and go into it SLOWLY, so the killer grabs you, and a team mates can flashlight save you. So locker blinds are still possible, to a degree. What an oversight from the devs, imo.
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@ays12151 said:
Deja Vu doesn't need this 6% speed bonus. Three Gens Aura Reading itself is very strong effect. I would just remove 6% speed bonus.
Resilence - 9% repair speed & 9% faster vaults - very strong - I would remove one of these two effects or decrease value from 9% to 6/7% both.
Prove Thyself - fair
Deja Vu did not have any speed bonus for the longest time, and was being considered one of the most useless perks. This and it being active the whole time is the reason the perk is used at all now. Without the speed boost, it would no longer be used, reducing perk variety further.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588909#Comment_3588909
This Edition of Dead by Daylight gives you access to a roster of 7 Killers (The Trapper, The Hillbilly, The Wraith, The Nurse, The Hag, The Huntress and The Doctor) and 9 Survivors (Meg Thomas, Claudette Morel, Jake Park, Dwight Fairfield, Ace Visconti, Nea Karlsson, Bill Overbeck, Feng Min and David King).
Huh... apparently Feng Min is in the base game on PS4/PS5 too... I thought I bought her.
Oh well... interesting there is a difference.... live and learn I guess.🤔
Feng came with the same DLC which brought Doctor, so both would be base or none. I recognized you didn't list her too, but didn't question it ^^.
So when Hag and Doc DLCs are in the base game of the PS4 / PS5, they honestly should add them to base in Steam as well. Does someone know how it's with Epic?
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@SimpleTora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3587548#Comment_3587548
There is an obnoxiously large bubble that shows you where someone got hooked all you have to do is pay attention. This is my biggest gripe with solo Q and why it doesn't need buffs. People just refuse to actually pay attention to what's happening and expect the game to handhold them the info so they can do less for more reward. The only time i've ever not been able to find someone because of blindness was on RPD and that's because I didn't know the map very well at all at the time. We shouldn't reward people for not paying attention to the game
Yes there is the bubble, but it only gives you a rough direction. and when you are the next one being chased, you can easily forget the whereabouts of the others in the heat of the moment.
The impact of blindness magnifies the longer it is active, and when the killer is fast in downing and hooking ppl, good luck finding all of your team mates even when you were not chased away. Esp. on multilevel indoor maps like the Game, Midwich, Rpd.
But all that solely impacts SoloQ, since swf have comms. That's the reason third seal can totally stomp random lobbies, and is utterly useless against swf. Imo extended blindness should not exist as unconditionally as UW can apply it, bc it widens the gap between Swf and soloq.
Insinuating that all that only happens bc the players do not want to pay attention is very patronizing. When I run against Blindness (most notably Third seal), I DO pay extra attention, but that still might not be enough to defeat it. Auras, esp basic ones, are part of the core game, the game is balanced around it. Implying that I'm just to lazy to remember feels downright insulting, honestly.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588410#Comment_3588410
Might have been a bundle?
Kate and Clown are available for shards, but are not in the base game. For clarity the base game consists of: -
Survivors
- Dwight (Bond, Prove Thyself, Leader)
- Meg (Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Quick & Quiet)
- Claudette (Empathy, Self Care, Botany Knowledge)
- Jake (Sabotuer, Calm Spirit, Iron Will)
- Nea (Bakanced Landing, Urban Evasion, Streetwise)
- Ace (Up The Ante, Open Handed, Ace In The Hole)
- David (Dead Hard, No Mither, WGLF)
- Bill (Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Left Behind)
Killers
- Trapper (Brutal Strength, Agitation, Unnerving Presence)
- Wraith (Shadowborn, Predator, Bloodhound)
- Hillbilly (Enduring, Lightborn, Tinkerer)
- Nurse (Nurse's Calling, Strider, Thanataphobia)
- Hag (Devour Hope, Third Seal, Ruin)
- Huntress (Huntress Lullaby, Territorial Imperative, Beast of Prey)
- Doctor (Monitor & Abuse, Overcharge, Overwhelming Presence)
There is an argument that while learning the game, it's probably better not to have too many meta perks, so the player can learn to play without them instead of relying heavily on them.
Ace, Hag and Doctor are not part of the base game in the Steam version, you have to buy them with shards, auric cells or as Steam DLC.
Don't know about consoles, but if that chars are part of base game with the console version, than Steam version should honestly change it similar to the console versions.
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@akaTheBARON said:
I've thought for some time that the 4 oldest paid survivors and maybe 2-3 oldest paid killers (non-licensed) should now be free, or the older they get (again non licensed) should be much cheaper or sold as bundles to offset the fact that the game as far as content goes (Call them the OG survivor/killer bundles or some **** LOL), has grown so much and what someone pays $20 for the base game vs what they get is not very appealing. Not when you look at how much additional content there is. The game is continuing to grow and the base game should as well. Then give people who already bought those DLCs shards or something. Maybe an exclusive skin for those characters IDK. They'll get over it tho, I promise XD.
Now that there are 6 survivor perks and 3 killer perks that are now paywalled again, I think this is even more true. Even when you factor in you can buy the non-licensed characters with shards, its still a huge grind. It SHOULD be a grind if you're obtaining content through grinding vs paying cash. If there's no grind there's nothing to play for, but the grind can still be TOO much.
I already have every DLC and will have the Chucky DLC 5 minutes after it drops so I'm not complaining on my behalf, just what I think would help newer players want to stick around.
I agree, they should add the oldest DLCs to the base game. Hag/Ace would bring access to Ruin and Devour (Hexes are strong with newer players), Doc/Feng would bring Overcharge/Lithe/Alert, and esp. Clown/Kate would bring two meta-perks with Pop and Windows. They would still have to be leveled, but at least they could be free.
Imo it would be perfectly fair to up the cost of the base game to 25€ as compensation.
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@SimpleTora said:
I notice a lot of people talking about how blindness hurts Solo Q. A lot of people seem to be ignoring that auras are a luxury not a necessity and not all survivors are going to do anything with said luxury.
I still have games (with people who have over 2k hours in this game) that still hide in a corner from a killer they can see with kindred. This isn't something you should be rewarded for with more tools to help you, the game should encourage you to actually learn something. I personally don't care if UW loses it's blindness or not I find it absolutely worthless in most situations when I use it or am hit by it since I actually pay attention to what's going on in the game.
Using solo Q as an excuse is dumb and I wish people would realize that no amount of buffs will help solo Q because the players are the problem and you can't take away that issue without removing freedom from the players. The devs can make it so survivors get 5 health states but if my teammates decide to do 5 totems for an archive then die on hook I still have a very good chance at losing the game if the killer slugs us all.
Info in the hands of the stupid people is useless. Info in the hands of smart people is dangerous. If BHVR truly cared about bridging the gap they would have a ranked and casual mode so nonserious casual players aren't ruining the games for sweatlords. The game isn't a competitive Esport though so they don't care.
With that long rant my take is that blindness is still incredibly useless because it only hurts the players that were going to do nothing with the info they were given anyway
If blindness would only affect additional auras from perks, then I might agree with you. But blindness also blocks out basic auras, so ppl on hook or in dying state. And THIS is the main detriment for solo Q. You cannot save someone if you cannot see them. And you cannot communicate with the randoms so they tell you were they are.
Sure UWs blindness is not unlimited like Third Seal, but it still has the potential to block auras for a considerable amount of time, which can be enough for a random team mate to drop into second stage or die, just bc the rescuer does not see the hook aura when they need to.
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@SimpleTora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586328#Comment_3586328
At the time of this post these are the arguments against it and my counter arguments
Cooldown - 30 (technically 60) seconds and in most cases you're only going to use it after a chase/hook a survivor to find another survivor to start chasing in which case the CD is as long as the chase last. It's impractical to drop chase to use the perk and continue chasing the same person and if you move to someone else then it puts you back at square 1
No real counterplay - Get in a locker if you notice someone scream. Run to a dead area of the map and scream then sneak away so the killer waste time looking for you. As I said in the OP you are going to be chased if you are the first or last survivor who screams in 9/10 uses of the perk UNLESS you're at/near an important objective (totem or pig box) that the killer wants to hard defend.
Too little effort - WOO exist. You put it on and you get map wide info for existing. If this required something to activate for X seconds then went on cd there'd be riots. Nowhere to hide exist as well you kick a gen and get info around you.
Removes stealth - Nowhere to hide exist, it may not last as long as UW but it gives far more accurate information and travels with you. Also if you are a "stealth" player you can run calm spirit something that helps immensely with stealth and makes the perk do nothing against you.
Blindness - You can go 30 seconds without map info hax on every loop. Most of you that run this perk are probably metalords that have over 1k hours in the game. 30 seconds without WOO will not hurt you run vigil if it's such an issue. Otherwise blindness only hurts people who pay absolutely 0 attention to the game.
Too good on top tier killers - So Nurse and Blight are too good with another perk? Almost like the killers themselves are a problem not the perks. Srsly this argument is dumb, Nurse is poorly designed and Blights addons removing any weaknesses he has is dumb.
Another thing people need to take into account this is a 4 v 1 so 16 perks vs 4. Killer perks NEED to be stronger than survivor perks on average in order to be able to compete. The killer knowing a general area of all the survivors locations for a brief moment is fine given there's only 1 killer who can only chase 1 survivor at a time. (Lol knight) The survivors job is to use 16 of perks to form a team to help each other escape the killer who uses 4 of them to stop you. If all 16 perks were on par with the killers then killer would be unplayable
Locker is NO counterplay, since the effect lingers, so you will scream as soon as you get out of locker and are in TR.
It's not that UW is just little effort, it's little effort for THREE effects - tracking, interruption & blindness - with the frist two being countered only by calm spirit, and latter totally uncounterable. WoO is also little effort, but you get only one effect (auras), and it can be countered by various perk or addons causing blindness.
Nowhere to hide is at least noticeable, bc you should recognize when the killer kicks a gen and beelines to you. UW triggers the instance you hear a TR without any warning. You cannot prepare for it.
WoO is not the only source of auras, you know. Esp. in soloQ you need auras to know what you random mates are doing. and UW totally shuts that off. Kindred does not work, bond does not work, hook auras do not work. With UW you can practically disable auras for the majority of a game, similar to a well hidden Third Seal Hex. And this is devastating for soloQ!
What UW needs, imo:
Either remove blindness alltogether, then it can keep its 30 lingering effect, or remove the lingering effect to 5 seconds, so you can ACTUALLY counter it by preemptively jumping into a locker. Near unlimited, unconditional blindness is a detriment to solo Q and should not be a thing!
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
Sure, and survivors should be able to see and dodge the killer too in the lobbies.
Not the killer that is being played, but I'm all in for seeing the killer player, so you can check their profile. Because, the most scummy players tend to wear their negative (steam) comments as honor badges. Going out of their way to play as horrible as possible so they can generate the most salt. Such players we don't need, so there should be a way to check for it beforehand.
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@Foempticol said:
I looked at today's PTB patch notes and saw no mention about prestige being hidden, which is very disappointing. I just want to play my favorite survivor again without getting lobby dodged and harrassed.
Lobby dodging I can get understand to a degree (occassionally do it myself, when I get some bad vibes from a lobby as a killer).
But harrassing? Who harasses you, your mates, or the killer? And what bad thing could they possibly say besides how bad a choice you made (in their pov)? Not neglecting your experience, just surprised, since I rarely get any interaction with my team mates in pre-game lobbies at all.
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@Travis_Bateman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3582754#Comment_3582754
Yeah. Steve has a legendary so why not give one to Nany too.
Absolutely. Steve even has his blue uniform from season three as a skin, Robyn would fit so well.
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@Travis_Bateman said:
Will we get more skins in the future for Steve,Nancy and Demo ?
I would be so hooked on for a Robyn legendary skin, would likely even pay real money for it (never done so for a skin).
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@coco_shotz said:
Let's just erase all survivor perks and items and just give killers free wins like tcm lol. Seriously tho is there any point where there can be a "meta" without tears?
Low quality bait, try better.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
lol MFT hasnt even been finalized and its already onto the next big nerf. This community is relentless with their incessant march for one side being steamrolled or its not fair.
Just play more and it'll all go away. You could even try getting some coaching. There's lots of ways to play the game! Whining shouldn't be one of the options.
Nice observation, and so blatantly wrong.
FTP+BU was complained about alot, esp. when the change was made. It's no new phaenomenon. It Just did not have as much traction as the Mft complaints, bc it was still used rather sparingly.
And yes, pick rate IS a relevant Factor about whether to change a perk or not. If you face a very unpleasent combo maybe once every 10 games, than that may suck, but overall its bearable. But if its multiple times in every game, it certainly needs addressing.
So if mft nerf brings a skyrise of FTP+BU usage with it, the devs have to assess this situation and act accordingly.
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@altruistic said:
Effective against tunneling. Situational. Fun. We must nerf all (survivor) perk combos that synergize well !
Nine out of ten people find bullying fun.
The fun-argument is invalid. Its nice that its fun for your survivor team, but for the killer, its downright painful and incredibly unfair. If it was only used in clear tunneling situations, then sure, but we both know that the players using that combo will try to use it in every possible situation, without any second thought whether its justified or how the killer might feel about it.
Old ds (before conspicious actions disabling it), Old mettle, real infinites, every busted mechanic is always very fun for the one using it. But that does not make it unproblematic.
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Literally the most exaggerated claim in history.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577508#Comment_3577508
It's really not the sole reason for the current no heal meta. That was brought about when they decided nerfing medkits after self-care had already been nerfed (again), and absolutely gutting CoH was a brilliant idea.
I feel like they need to pick a lane: Encourage survivors to heal more often, which keeps them off gens, or encourage survivors to heal less, which keeps them on gens.
Maybe not the sole reason, but the major reason, imo. Current Mft just synergizes way to well with the other meta perks. You are injured? Nice, now BOTH mft and resi work for you. Mfts haste allows you to being chased longer, so less reason to heal at all. With longer chases, you have more possibility to autpilot with windows. And bc you do not heal all game, you likely get to end game sooner, where your hope waits to disgustingly stack its haste effect.
Sure the no-heal-approach works without mft as well, but it is significantly riskier. Mft takes the risk away, and makes the playstyle available / viable for nearly every non-potatoe survivor.
Yes, medkits were nerfed, but SOLELY for self heals! For altruistic heals, the medkits are now even faster than before! The same with CoH, self-heals removed, but altruistic heals got buffed (faster speed). Before the nerf, you could have medkits healing yourself 3 times with insane speed. That was totally busted (for a LONG time) and certainly needed adjustments. Self-healing is a massive tool, such a thing should be restricted in some way.
So even though altrusitic heals can be easier and faster now, no one heals. They rather sit the whole game at gens injured and be out of a game in 5 minutes, than doing something "suboptimal" like cleansing, looting or apparently healing. A bit like playing no-cleanse Plague rounds every game, one of the dullest experiences you can have in this game. Voluntarily. I just don't get it.
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The nerf was totally justified. Mft is the sole reason for the current no heal meta, it just worked too well with Resilience, Hope, Windows and alike. Take its universal utility away and we hopefully see some more variety in survivor loudouts again.
The approach of linking the haste to deep wound is a really interesting approach, I guess no one expected that. It creates great synergy with anti-tunneling effects (BT + OTR), and rewards skillful play (using DH or Mft Endurance effect successfully). But I feel the 3% haste will not be enough anymore, given how situational the perk will be.
Since it will work so well in tunneling situations, I thought, why not buff the haste to 5% as compensation, to make it a try anti-tunneling perk? So the killer would have to think twice whether they want to chase someone in deep wound or not. It's still just a temporarily haste, though, since the surv will have to mend eventually to do something other that running. The only real issue I see with this approch is FTP + BU, but that should be changed regardless.
As an alternative to the haste, I thought that Mft could work like Overcome, but for endurance hits. So when you are hit into deep wound, you would get an increased on-hit speed boost, causing exhaustion. But that would remove synergy with other exhaustion perks, most notably dead hard, so I think haste without the exhaustion restriction is the better approach.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575827#Comment_3575827
You're putting a heck of alot of words in my mouth. I haven't asked for anything or called anything broken. I've been making observations on BHVRs decision-making regarding perk changes. But thanks for the reading material 👍
Your very words were "Lethal Pursuer and Corrupt are another 2 with no requirements so chuck them in too I guess."
I responded to that.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575074#Comment_3575074
Calm Spirit already penalises you, so no need for an activation requirement. The other 2, sure. Lethal Pursuer and Corrupt are another 2 with no requirements so chuck them in too I guess.
(Old) Lethal and Corrupt activate at the start and then turn off for the rest of the match! Why do you want to add a requirement to it, what should that be? When you are running them, you are down to three/two perks after the effect wears off. With Lethal, you at least have the secondary effect, but that also only comes in play if you dedicate perk slot for another aura perk.
If "perks without a requirement" are an issue, then what about Bond, Deja Vu, Visionary, Whispers, Nurses, Stridor, ... practically all tracking / info perks have little or no requirements. But adding one to each would just be silly and serve no purpose other than making the weakest set of perks even weaker.
Just because a perk works unconditionally, it does not mean it is broken or op. Thats a silly metric. On the contrary, we have many perks that DO have requirements for a completely underwhelming effect, eg. Rookie Spirit.
It's always about how much of a benefit a perk gives you, whether a requirement / restriction would be needed or not. Mft gives too much value practically the whole match for a little unconvenience (being injured), so it is changed. Imo, UW gives too much value the entire match for a slight inconveniece (opening a locker).
Bhvr has a track record of releasing way too many perks with too many restrictions, and just recently adjusted some of them to make them actually worth running (Trail of Torment, Claustrophobie, Furtive Chase). Thats the right direction, but surely not adding arbitrary restriction / requirements to perks just bc they give value "for free".
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@Akumakaji said:
Yes! 100% THIS! And while you are at it, let us revisit the last 10 games, so if we get killed first, we don't have to watch up to 10min of unrelated gameplay, just to know if the killer was running Awakened Awareness or something like this. And sometimes I might have clicked "next game" out of reflex, when I suddenly remember that I wanted to check something specific, so please, its not much of extra data, just let us revisit the last couple of games.
Also, maybe show total gen-time and healing times or chase times, would be interesting to have this data to compare.
Past 10 games stats, absolutely!
It happens so often to me that I forget to take a screenshot for Nightlight, bc I'm chatting or randomly clicked on a done challenge. Being able to review these would help in this regard.
It's honestly a bit baffling why we still not have any ingame overall stats. You can watch your game stats with external sites, so the data is definitely their. The devs only have to display it somewhere. Other games do this, why DBD doesn't is beyond me ...
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3571076#Comment_3571076
Nah dude I think the idea is good, there should be all sorts of information + replay mode, question is will they do it though? ^^
Sadly replays will likely never be a thing.
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Guess I'm alone with this issue ^^''.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3570365#Comment_3570365
There already isn't Endurance stacking by virtue of the Deep Wound mechanic. I'm just saying Endurance that is ONLY for anti-tunnel (BT/OTR) shouldn't Deep Wound. If they are rescued, the Killer can easily down the rescuer, if they Kobe, the Killer can burn through the anti-tunnel Endurance. Overall it would go a long way to encourage positive gameplay behaviors (as in things that don't make people quit).
I feel like "there's too much Endurance" is a bit of a joke of a complaint almost like "there's too much Exposed". Like sure, the big ones come into play more often compared to nothing, but are easily countered in most scenarios (spreading pressure against FtP + Buckle Up, and cleansing totems on non-Midwich maps against Devour).
So you mean BT and OTR giving mettle effect instead of endurance / deep wound, but lose collision so you cannot body block. That might work, yeah.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569799#Comment_3569799
I would say CA due to the risk of OTR bodyblocks 60s in. I'd rather just cut the problem off at the pass. It isn't like a Killer can't hit them anyway, it just would let Killers 'phase' through them to ignore bodyblocks.
Back when Endurance stacked, there were already soft-caps, as you couldn't stack BT on top of both DH and a Styptic, as a Styptic needed to be used in place of BT or not at all (since you need to mend in Deep Wound, and can't heal/be healed to apply the Styptic until mended). With the current method of Endurance and my suggested changes, it would still only allow for 1-non Anti-Tunnel Endurance, just as before with Deep Wound serving as the soft-cap. Since I already said to remove collision, even if we reverted the Endurance rules, they still couldn't triple tank for an ally since the Killer could simply walk through (also the person isn't helping by progressing gens, and might even help prevent the Killer from dropping chase, allowing Bloodlust to build better).
Now to be fair, there is one flaw, and that is Flash(light/bang)s being used by the OTR player. I'm not sure of a good thing to fix this, like maybe using a light item counts as a CA altogether, but that wouldn't help against patient players, so that is a tough one.
I see, gaining collision back only after CA would guarantee no endurance bodyblock at all, that makes sense.
Endurance stacking is still not good, imo. Sure a styptic cannot be used when in deep wound, so likely not from a surv under BT protection. But we have new sources of endurance since then, most notoriously MFT. Any endurance effect could be stacked with DH. Even If it's just two endurances stacked together, it feels awful enough to hit in one pickup endurance already (by MFT or FTP). Those two already enable stupid, risky plays to be relatively safe, no need to make it even safer.
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It certainly changed to the worse with the healing nerfs and subsequent addition of Mft. But its still not as bad as the pre 6.1 second chance meta.
Before the perk overhaul, the top meta perks (DS, DH, BT, IW, UB) had such an insanely high pick rate that you encountered full-meta lobbies in like 4 out of 5 games. And in the remaining game, there would still be one or two survs with full-meta. You would have to expect DS, DH and BT from everyone.
With the current stay-injured meta, full-meta lobbies are luckily (still) relatively rare (at least with randoms), and you can actually encounter some pretty diverse builds from time to time.
So no, not the worst variety DBD ever had, but it definitedly got worse with Mft.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569716#Comment_3569716
Remove collision until a CA post-hook. Don't act like this is an impossible hurdle when it took me less than 5s to think of collision removal. I'm sorry but don't be silly.
Also Endurance stacking in that PTB was only possible through (mostly Survivor) content creators playing with their audience. That would be like saying movement speed is OP because you can get Clown Bottle'd, Adrenaline'd, Hope'd, Background Player'd, Breakout'd, Blood Pact'd, and whatever else all can be stacked ala the modern version of this vid from 2 years ago. Endurance stacking only worked when people intentionally went out of the way to make it work for a meme video that resulted in a horrible mechanic change detrimental to the game at large.
Collision should really be removed after hook, total agreement. If it deactivate by CA or just when base BT runs out is up for debate.
Endurance stacking was a general problem, and way easier to exploit than you make it seem. Just equip OTR and DH and take a styptic with you, and you could potentially tank 3 hits after unhook before going done, with no interaction of other survivors (except them unhooking you). Sure this 3 tanked hits would help immensly against a tunneling killer, but could also be used aggressively by body blocking a killer from another teammate. Thats by no means "going out of ones way" to make it work.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569535#Comment_3569535
I think Gen time should be dropped to 80sec. But 4 survivors alive requires 6 of 8 Gens complete to power the Gates. 3 alive requires 5 Gens, 2 alive requires 4 Gens.
Means if a survivor is on last hook with 5 Gens done. If that survivor get sacrificed, the Gates will be powered, which killers prefer to chase/hook other survivors. This change would make tunneling less encouraged.
Thats actually interesting!
It would allow you to 3 gen only against 4 ppl, the second you sacrifice / kill one you would lose the 3 gen and power the gates. Might cause some slugging of death hook survivors. But then again, if you got into that situation, its inrevertable, the gates will be powered one way or another. Against 3 ppl remaining, you would have to hold a 4 gen, and against 2 ppl remaining a 5 gen. That scales really well, and gives the 3 / 2 ppl a more managable goal (at least more manageable than now). I really like that suggestion :).
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That kind of situation, survs not doing gens but hiding all the time, is the prime example of taking the game hostage by the survivor side, maybe even the only valid example for it that survivors can enforce (apart from cheating / glitching / bug abuse).
It's actually not that difficult to decide whether a situation falls into that criteria: Just evaluate if the situation can solve itself in a reasonable time frame without the "abusing" player changing their playstyle. If thats not possible, the "abusing" player is taking the game hostage. (Corrolar: If you cannot get out of the game without dc'ing or waiting for the "mercy" of another party, you are taken hostage).
So, if a killer slugs for the 4k, thats no hostage situation bc. the slugged player will eventually die in max. four minutes. A killer body blocking a survivor into a corner is fine, as long as the game can still bei finished (by other survs) or EGC will kill the trapped survivor. In contrast, a killer body blocking the last survivor when EGC ist NOT running is taking the game hostage against the surv, bc. that situation does not clear in its own until the killer frees the blocked survivor.
So with the initial situation, since survivors can avoid detection very consistently when not doing any objektives and just hiding, it's pretty much up to their whim to clear this situation, but the game (currently) cannot do this (technically it CAN with the max round time of 60 minutes, but thats no "reasonable time frame"). So the survivors are taking the game hostage here.
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@So_Saucee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569315#Comment_3569315
OTR got a huge nerf so it's pointless to run. That anti camping mechanism needs work big time bc killers just tunnel you once you unhook and we have no more perks to counter the tunneling anymore. DS has been nerfed as well. I had a killer run UW, BBQ, NC, NOED and tried to slug the entire match like seriously.
OTR was not changed at all since its buff in 6.1, what do you mean? If you mean it's endurance can be disabled the instance you are unhooked, that's how it was all the time since 6.1.
And why pointless? The perks endurance will only fail to aid you when the killer is really near when you are unhooked. Which should happen LESS now with AFC, and can also be attributed to a misplay of your teammate (aggressive unhooks acutally validating a tunneling approach by making it very time efficient!). The tunnelers I face usually go on to chase other ppl and just turn around the instance an unhook happened. Which gives the unhooked plenty of time to reach a safe tile and still be protected by OTR. Heck, sometimes when I run both OTR and DS and get tunneled, I even have to let myself be downed prematurely to get use out of my DS before it runs out.
OTR is a actually great deterrant for situational tunneling, bc the killer will recognize the missing injured sounds and know that they have to invest two hits to secure a down. So they usually will just slap the survivor once and change target. Sure, if you have a die-hard tunneler, they will do all in their might to finish you off, but no anti-tunnel perk alone will help you reliably in that situation, so OTR is not worse than DS or DH in that regard.
I sincerely have no clue what you are talking about here. Sure OTR won't help in each and every circumstance, there will be situations were it fails. But that does by no means diminish the fact the the perk will help you in other, more prevalent situations. Arguing the perk is useless bc it does not work so well in hardcore tunneling situations is like claiming seat belts do not work bc they do not keep you safe when your car falls of a cliff. It's non-sensical, honestly.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
It also proves again that they can teleport survivors to a different hook, which would've been a much better anti-facecamping mechanic, similar to Pyramid Head's cages.
I don't get why ppl think teleporting hooks is such a superior mechanic. The killer can use this teleport to their advantage as well! Survivor is close to hitting second stage / sacrifice? Nice, just stand near them so they get relocated, throwing off any survivor coming for rescue. I've done so a few times with PH, survivors were never able to rescue the caged surv in time. And camping killers would be waiting outside the radius until another surv appears, just like they are doing with the AFC. So there's not even a real benefit compared to AFC.
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@CrypticGirl said:
This highlight tells it all. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1958750156
It doesn't have to be crazy, just 3-5 seconds would suffice.
Why did you even bother recovering, when you already knew she wouldn't pick you up but camp you to redown? Just crawl right to the a gate, so she has to make a move.
Sure your situation sucked, but do you realize how your suggestion would suck on the killers side? Mft already forces you to go for the one being picked up, with your suggestion on top that would be a free escape in end game. Ftp+BuckleUp is already nuts in end game, we do not need another of that sort.
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My main issues with WoO are:
- The lesser concern: It makes Shift W and predropping pallets too strong. Shift W is already boring enough, but WoO allows optimizing this boring playstyle. At least they waste ressources pretty quickly.
- The major concern: It makes pro loopers near unbeatable! If you chase a player thats already really good at looping, knowing all about lunge distances and power cooldowns, it can already be really hard to down them. If you add perfect knowledge of vaults and pallets onto that, it gets borderline unfair. If I survivor player can already stand their ground for more than one or two minutes in a chase, WoO is just over-the-top.
WoO is often defended with the argument "It's a beginner perk, only newbie players use / need it." Thats total bs in my experience. There are way too many really experienced players that use this perk (and mft, btw) to make themselves near unbeatable / uncatchable. And thats really a problem with the perk.
What could be done about WoO then? I say deactivate it after something like 30s or 45s in a chase, and give it a slight cooldown so you cannot escape the chase for a split second and have another 30s fo aura ready. Could be implemented by the perk dealing blindness itself after using it too long in a chase (so a drawback of "overutilizing" it). Another possibility could be shrinking the range of the perk the longer you are chased. So it looses value over time.
About Mft and UW, both perks just do too much, having secondary effects that are strong enough on their own to be a separate perk. Mft's haste is already very strong, why does it also have endurance on pickup, when buckle up can do the same for you (and the downed team mate). UW first effect gives you info, interrupts and can thus trigger DMS or cancel some channeling actions (totems, box searches), why give it blindness as well? While occasional blindness on its own is not a big deal, with UW you can reliably shut down auras for the majority of the game! Which is devastating for solo Q. The only other option for (near) unlimited blindness is Third Seal, which can be destroyed, and you have to work for it to get it applied to everyone (hitting them with M1). With UW, you just get it for the price of opening a locker, so basically free. If the blindness part of UW was a separate perk, it surely would not be meta, but it would be the best and easiest perk to reliably apply blindness on the survivors. So if you are really fed up with WoO, you could just equip that as a counter.
So what should be done about these perks? Easy, remove the secondary effects. For Mft, we do not even need a separate perk, since buckle up can fill that gap. For UW, put the blindness part into an oncoming killer perk or just add a general perk for it. It does not have to be activated by opening a locker, could be something else, it just should be similarly easy to apply. E.g., it could automatically apply blindness in a chase (hard-counter to WoO, like Mindbreaker hard-countering Fogwise). I know counter-perks are frowned upon, but such situational blindness impacts soloQ way less than general blindness effect tied to TR or alike.
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As @KelMartigan wrote, since Demo ist not available anymore (except buying a code from other sources for horrendous prices), the playerbase being able to play them naturally shrinkens over time (veteran players leaving the game). So Demo is bound to become near extinct.
For Twins, I guess it's a combination of factors that cause her to have such a low pick rate:
- They were bugged for way too long.
- They are hated by survivors for extensive slugging.
- Playing them can be very infuriating (survivors taking victor hostage, being kicked in the face constantly bc you miss victors pounce). Generally, they are not the easiest to play efficiently.
- Underwhelming / niche teachables: Although I really like both Oppression and Coup (let's just forget about Hoarder), I can see that players are not so interested in that perks. Coups recent buff was really nice, but Oppression's cooldown is still way too long, even after all this years.
- They are not very appealing (let's be honest, both are just ugly and creepy), and severly lack good cosmetics.
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Played a number of killer games yesterday, did not trigger once. I also made sure to stay away from the hooks, but thats also my usual playstyle anyway.
But I had the impression that more survivors than before dropped into second stage / sacrifice without being unhooked by their teammates. I may have proxy camped some (but still enough room to at least secure a trade), but others were dropping into second stage without me being any near. Makes me wonder if the other survivors just assumed I would camp and left their mate thinking they would be able to unhook themselves.
So my very personal, biased verdict of the AFC is: It makes my killer games easier, at least for now :P
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Played two killer games on it yesterday, felt way better than before. Map is noticebly smaller, has more LOS blockers (was playing GF in one game), and is not cluttered with pallets anymore.
Might feel worse for survivor, though.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554452#Comment_3554452
A 3 seconds DS is much better than no DS at all. And OTR hasn't changed since 6.1.0. Still, both of these perks aren't used anymore. Can't say I'm surprised that so many people complain about tunneling now. They make themselves vulnerable and wonder why their opponent capitalises on that. The only ways to counter these perks is to not tunnel. And if you don't get tunneled, isn't that good?
Bloodhound does not counter Iron Will. Do you even know what these perks do? First you brought up Beast of Prey and now Bloodhound. Both are terrible and don't provide any beneficial effect. Who cares, if the blood is a bit brighter? You still can't see the blood through walls, so it doesn't help when you try to mind game. Which is exactly what Iron Will makes less effective. Bloodhound has absolutely no purpose. There is no situation where Bloodhound would provide any value. You see the blood anyway. And if you don't, then Bloodhound won't help you either. The reason no killer runs it is because it's useless. You might as well use nothing at all.
Reading through your post, I am convinced you didn't read mine. Let me repeat it for you: Iron Will makes mind gaming a lot harder because you cannot hear the survivor to get an idea of their location behind line of sight blockers. This also allows you to leave the loop at just the right moment, so that you make a lot of distance on the killer because they didn't notice that you left. They don't lose you. They just have no way to tell where you are as soon as they can't see you directly. It also allows you to hide in certain spots while you are injured. If you do it right, that all but guarantees you escape chase with nothing the killer can do (other than Oni).
Gotta veto the "Bloodhound is useless"/"might as well use nothing at all" claim.
Yes it's a very underwhelming perk, but it's not nearly as bad as Beast of Prey or Predator, which are indeed useless / detrimental:
It not only makes the blood brighter, which can help alot in some maps with hard to see scratches and blood (most notably Borgo, but coldwind maps as well). It also makes blood pools stay 4 seconds longer, which is alot. It's the only perk that reliably allows you to drop a chase for some seconds (e.g. for applying pop on a gen) and resume with the chase afterwards, bc the perk will effectively navigate you to the injured survivor. With hemo effect (->Sloppy), thats even easier blood tracing. Survivors will think you left them, only for you to pop out seconds later (best with stealth killers).
So again, yes the perk is weak, but with the right playstyle, you can make it work / give you value. Thats far more than you can say about the other worst-perk contenders like Beast of Prey, Predator or Territorial.