CaulDrohn
CaulDrohn
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@roundpitt said:
Thanatophobia Rework
Each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor will now provide a 1/1.5/2% action speed penalty. If all four Survivors are either injured, dying, or hooked, Thanatophobia grants an additional 12% penalty to Survivors’ action speeds.
So after one survivor dies, the perk is nearly useless. In addition, you can only get good value with plague, legion and nurse.
I think this will mostly only be used on plague and legion though. They are kind of homogenizing perks.
Yes, and when one surv is dead you DON'T NEED IT anymore. three survs can be easily manged without any gen perks.
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@darksouls3600 said:
No one on either side (survivor and killer) wants this ridiculous update that you guys want to bring to us, survivors will not like having a broken perk combo back for killers with a plus, now there will be PR/DMS/POP combo together, imagine these 3 perks in a blight or in the famous nurse, in addition to having a perk that is not even that great, nerfed (ashe perk).
The way you nerfed thanato simply makes it useless if the killer isn't the legion or the plague, not to mention the survivors have CoH and medkits to literally take the pressure off the thanato in seconds, perhaps the best way to nerf thanato is to make him the old thanato 20% in total and only affecting the generators, but if you want to nerf a little more, maybe 4.5% or 4% per injured survivor is fine.
"No one on either side wants this ridiculous update"
I WANT IT. I like both changes (from BOTH sides). So your bold statement is wrong.
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"It is totally fine that some Perks are only really useful on some Killers. However, it should not be the case that a Perk gets changed into a way that it ends up like this. Then it should be reworked."
I totally agree it should be reworked, but like I pointed out, it's a hotfix patch, full reworks are not to be expected. So a numbers change has to suffice for now.
"The thing is that Thana was complained about mainly for Legion and Plague, since those keep you injured and on top of the increase to 90 seconds per Gen, it means that the outcome could be pretty oppressive (almost 2 minutes per Gen with Thana alone). However, the Devs did not address this, instead they made the Perk bad for every other Killer."
I disagree, for one they decreased the rate in all situations, for all killers, including Legion/Plague. For two, the new "formula" allows to counter/tradeoff the biggest slowdown. Before, when all were injured, healing one would "only" account for 5.5% reduction, more or less neglectable. Now, healing one reduces the slowdown by staggering 14%!
If anything, I feel Thana might be even too weak, even for Legion / Plague to use. There's always some claudette self caring through mangled against Legion (sadly), or someone brings a boon and it's a constant shift between healthy and injured. So Legion could have a hard time keeping all four injured. Same goes for Plague, if players wisen up and use the fountains strategically, instead of avoiding them like the plague (pun not intended), it may be hard for her to have full thana stacks as well. In contrast to Legion, she cannot use her power to find the remaining survivor(s) not infected.
"Nobody complains about having a Debuff against the other 28 Killers, since against those, it at least makes sense to heal."
Oh, there are so many ppl even in this thread complaining hard that the perk will be useless on all other killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108713#Comment_3108713
I dont really have a NICE AND EASY solution for this. But it is also not my Job to provide them. In the end, it will probably be a full Rework.
But the thing is, if many players can tell that the solution they went for is bad, this means that the Devs themselves did think even less about it than those players figuring it out (minutes after reading the Patchnotes).
In general, a Perk which is only useful on a very small amount of Killers and useless on every other Killer is just very, very bad. And this is what Thana has become - it is STILL oppressive on Legion and Plague, but now you will not see it on any other Killer in the game.
Again, I dont have a NICE AND EASY solution, but probably a full Rework. But in general, Slowdowns should be capped at some point so that you cannot stack Slowdowns and have Gens take way above 2 minutes. But this again is a Job for those who actually make money with the game.
I agree it may need a rework, but thats nothing for a hotfix patch. The perk needed some quick numbers change, and it got it.
I don't think that change is bad, btw, I actually like it! Bc. it gives a counterplay, or tradeoff, to the perk. You as a survivor can drastically reduce it's effectiveness by healing (wasting time against legion) or cleansing (giving Plague corrupt fountain). I guess thats the main point of the change, giving the players some kind of counter to the perk.
"In general, a Perk which is only useful on a very small amount of Killers and useless on every other Killer is just very, very bad."
Why is it bad? Some killers synergize more with perks than others. M1 perks in general. BBQs aura is good with fast killers, but meaningless with slow ones. Auras in general can be hit or miss with Spirit, since she cannot see them in phase. TR perks are bad with stealth killers, and meaningful with big TR killers (Myers EW3, Doctor). Oblivious effects are bad with Legion. Nurses calling is dead perk with Plague. Many perks do not proc when controlling victor. Hoarder works for Pinhead and maybe Nemesis (do his chests count for hoarder? Never tried that...).
There are so many limitations for killer and perk combinations, why is thana doing the same such a big deal?
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@AarcvanDemen said:
Just saying. Or we go to the old way of gen rushing tactics. Your choice.
The "old gen rushing tactic" can be done without gen speed perks easily. Gens a rushed by splitting up to do gens (so not even proove is required) and using busted toolboxes. What do you want to nerf here exactly? Deja Vu, Fast Track, Overzealous (no one runs this ones), Resilience (need to stay injured), or proove (like I wrote, not needed for real gen rushing, and feels very much required in soloQ with increases gen times, also countered by discordance)?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106988#Comment_3106988
Exactly this. It will be less effective if you waste time healing against Legion and less effective if you cleanse against Plague. However, if only one Survivor cleanses against Plague, everyone basically has to cleanse.
I really dont understand their thought process by making the Perk super-bad on basically every Killer EXCEPT those where it was problematic.
Out of curiosity, how would YOU change Thana to be still strong for any other killer but not as problematic with legion and plague?
Issue is, there's no easy solution to achieve this. Making it stronger for the other killers makes it stronger for Legion/Plague as well. Nerfing it for Legion/Plague likely nerfs it for all other killers as well.
What is your NICE AND EASY solution for this?
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
It will still suck on Legion/Plague. They are reducing its effectiveness by an almost 3 to 1 ratio. The slowdown you get from injuring one survivor now, will require having 3 injured survivors to make up the difference. Not to mention, if a survivor dies, you are capped at 6% slowdown (vs 16.5% now). This is basically what they did with the ruin nerf. The slowdown will be so minimal that it won't be worth wasting the perk slot for.
When one survivor is dead, you DON'T NEED a 16.5% decrease. With 3 survs left, one is hanging, one is chased, one has to rescue. No one left to do a gen anyway. And if they manage to do the remaining gens and get out with just 3 ppl, the killer misplayed massively.
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@Sandt21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107653#Comment_3107653
While the Artist used PR+DMS well, I believe Doctor uses it best
Lets leave PR out of that, since it's not interacting with the killers powers here, thats DMS alone.
For me, it's not so clear to decide who utilizes it better:
Doc:
- + Blast hits multiple gens
- - but "only" in TR
- + Blast always interrupts
- - Blast has a lengthy cooldown
Artist:
- / Crows hit all generators in a line (normaly no more then two)
- + Crows have unlimited range
- - Crows struggle with elevated gens / uneven terrain
- - Crows do not interrupt, so a nearly finished gen can still be finished
- + Crows can injure if a survivor risks to power through a gen instead of dissolving crows, activating DMS after the hit
- + Crows have a very short cooldown
I would say it depends on the map / layout. If you have a compact map or nice 3-gen scenario, doctors blast is prob. stronger. But on a large, even map with spread out gens, artist can proc DMS from great distance, where Doc might not be able to blast multiple gens at all.
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It will be after next hotfix, yes.
But it will be nerfed. Since PR does not give you a notification anymore, the killer does not know which gen got affected, when the survivors play it smart (aka letting go of gen before the hooking). So apart from artist, that can just send crows, the killer has to guess if / where a gen may be worked on right now (artist can faciliate DMS alone with her crows as well, so thats not an issue with the combo, imo). And DMS will only hold for 30s.
Personally I think thats fair. I really liked the counterplay from the survivor side, and I'm glad thats back. The combo will be less oppressive now, which is also good.
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@ad19970 said:
The balance changes are not very good. I am happy Thana is getting nerfed though, even if it's not nerfed in a good way. MoM nerf is just hilarious though, and PR and DMS combo coming back is also bad. It's at least nerfed, but it will still be very similarly strong like it was before the big update, because the extra 10 seconds on each gen make up for the time reduction of DMS.
But, the fact that we are getting balance changes to three perks in a hotfix update is also a good sign in my opinion, because it shows that the devs are focusing on balance much more now than they ever did. And this hopefully means we will see other balance changes very soon. I am at least somewhat hopeful after this update that we will see some balance changes in the next chapter, especially nerfs to camping, tunneling, Pentimento and Eruption.
Honestly I never found PR + DMS really that problematic, bc you can easily counter it by letting go of the gen before the hooking takes place. And now, with the killer no longer getting any info which gen was affected, they cannot even run straight to the gen to proc DMS manually, in case therre were smart survivors. Only artist can get value out of DMS very easily, but that will be independent from PR after the hotfix. An DMS will be shorter then. I think that change is really good, it reenables the combo but less oppressive than before (just bc the killer does not get PR notification anymore).
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Are we really sure it is a nerf for plague? Because the survivors have to cleanse to deny you your full thana slowdown. So thats one more damage puke for you to use. Reducing the slowdown from 20% to 6% with one cleanse is quite a big incentive for cleansing, imo.
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@FrostySeal said:
How am I supposed to counter a plague using these two perks while in solo queue? I'm not a new player, I have 2500 hours in the game and I play both Killer and Survivor, so I know how to counter plague. I know when I should cleanse and when I shouldn't and how to loop her. The issue arises with my teammates, however, because no matter what I do in a game against dying/thana plague it usually always ends up with the Killer winning because my teammates screw up at some point in the match. Those two perks alone increase gen times to such an absurd amount of time that even if my teammates are semi-competent and are able to loop the plague for a decent amount of time it will almost always still end with us losing in the end. Plus, those two perks are always followed up with more gen regression perks usually like Jolt, Scourge hook of pain, etc.
What about Clairvoyance then? It's highly valuable in soloQ, bc it shows you the hatch aura within 64 meter range. So when the match goes downhill, you can just hide and wait for the last to die, and then beat the killer to the hatch. It works quite often. And for the instances were it doesn't, you could equip Sole Survivor / Wake up to open a gate faster. Since you know were the hatch is due to Clair, you can also hide at a gate. If you cannot see the hatch at the gate, it is too far away for the killer to reach you after the hatch was closed (when using Sole Survivor / wakeup and not playing against fast killers like blight / billy / nurse).
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@Dead_Harder said:
Dont cleanse and she is an m1 killer. Also dont 3 gen yourself.
I already hated that "DONT CLEANSE" mantra before the update, bc. it kills inexperienced players that struggle with looping more than it helps.
But after the patch, that mantra is even more idiotic:
- M1 killer game play got buffed
- DH nerfed heavily, so staying injured is way more dangerous
- Thana buffed twice (numbers increased and more effect bc of longer gen times)
So for christ sake, use the fountains! Just don't be stupid in doing so.
Just yesterday I had a game against Plague that we could have won, but a claudette didn't have enough game sense to do the right decisions. Following situation:
Eerie, 3vs1, 1 gen left, although in a 3 gen szenario (yeah I know, "don't 3 gen yourself", but in soloQ you are happy if ANY gen gets done!). All of us broken, with two cleanse fountains left, near/in the 3-gen. So the plague was dominating us hard, we couldn't really do a gen, and couldn't easily cleanse either. Meg gets hooked (first time), which gives me an opportunity to use one of the fountains. Plague comes back, pukes at me, and returns bc meg got unhooked by Claud. Both run away from the 3 gen, Plague follows, I use the last fountain. Sure plague now gets corrupt purge, but she looses all her fountains, so we can all heal up again. Meg is downed and hooked FAR FAR away from the 3 gen.
Now I thought, ok, claud should be there as well, can heal easily since all the fountains are back there, and plague cannot camp bc its far away from her 3-gen. So I go on the one gen that already had some progress. But claud did not bother to unhook. In fact, I don't know if she did ANYTHING all that time (wasn't hooked at all). So I had to leave my hook to try and get Meg off, but it was too far away, so I didn't get to her in time, and she died second hook. Meanwhile Claud was found near the Shack (basement there), hooked and face camped (guess because she was just hiding). I didn't get out either, gates were too close together, so had to search for the hatch, and plague was a second faster.
I don't know what the Claud player was thinking there, but not using the fountains far away from the 3-gen and leaving Meg to die was certainly the wrong decision. She had all the info she needed, Plague chasing Meg, me doing the last fountain near a gen, to do the right thing. Like I said, Plague couldn't afford to camp, she was bound to return to the 3-gen. I had cleansed on the last fountain far away at the 3-gen so I would be far away. Claud was nearest and safest, could have easily unhooked and both of them cleansing. And even IF plague was camping, she wasn't hooked at all!
To summarize, NO-CLEANSE might be a strategy for a good team where all can loop reasonably well. But it fails as a general advice imo, esp. with the recent gameplay changes, and with players that are not good (enough) at looping. Cleansing is part of the game against plague. Use it with caution instead of actively refusing to do so.
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@airii said:
I think dark sense shouldn't active when you are on the hook. At that point you don't need to know that the killer is literally camping or proxy camping you. Had a game just now where I got 3 procs of dark sense when I was on hook so it was pretty much useless :)
Yeah but, since gens cannot be undone, you will only get at most 5 dark sense auras to begin with. So when you are hanging while 3 gens are done, and it procs, you get at least some info, instead of nothing. Or do you want it to be kept until you are unhooked? But even if so, if the killer is (proxy) camping, it would be spent imidiately, so you won't get much info that you didn't already have.
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@WesCravenFan said:
I read it. Doesn't change what I said. Stalking is a non-interactive mechanic regardless of add ons.
That one we can agree on! But it's not that much of an issue in normal games, bc it only takes a small part. In both iri addon games, it's way more, maybe 60% of the whole trail time is Myers searching / stalking someone.
So if we actually think the same (more or less), what was you issue with my other comment to begin with?
I wrote:
"Being stalked does not count as interaction for me. Double iri mikey won't attack at all until he got P3. SO if anything he starts a chase to get PWYF stacks. Thats why its so boring, or "uneventful"."
Where you answered:
"I'm starting to think that when people say "interaction", they really just mean looping, and literally nothing else."
That sounded for me like you contestet my comment. But you are not, since you just wrote:
"[..] Stalking is a non-interactive mechanic regardless of add ons."
So what are we arguing about, actually?
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099471#Comment_3099471
You realize that stalking is a core Myers mechanic with or without an add on.
I'm EXCLUSIVELY talking about TOMBSTONE Myers, so equipping BOTH iri addons to get the most out of the tombstone. Bc. Myers has to stalk so much to get to EW3, there won't be any "real" interaction between killer and survivors for the majority of the game. And even if Myers pops EW3 eventually, it's still not much interaction, bc Myers will just run you down with PWYF stacks and kill you instantly. THATS why I say it's most boring / non-interactive!
His normal gameplay with stalking, poping EW3, being chased exposed, is perfectly fine, regarding killer-survivor interactions. If anything, his stalk should be improved, limitations being removed (allow multistalk for faster tier up, remove distance penalty or tone it down). But such a stalk improvement should come in hand with remove / rework of tombstone addons, imo.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098531#Comment_3098531
I'm starting to think that when people say "interaction", they really just mean looping, and literally nothing else.
Not just looping, juking, kiting, taking aggro, fighting for gens, protecting others by bodyblocking / saboing, any instance where the two parties actually interact with each other, try to mind game / trick the other one, outsmart them etc.
Being stalked is hardly "interactive", esp. when you don't recognize it. And even if you recognize and run away or hide, when Michael decides to not go after you but searches for someone else, you also don't get any real interaction.
I'm not blaming the Michael player here for playing that way, bc he has to if he wants to get anything out of double iri addons. It's the addons that create such "uninteractive" trials.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098542#Comment_3098542
"going to be addressed" is the issue. They knew it was going to be an issue, yet still rolled it out as is along with all the other "reduction offsets" they put in place. You're literally being forced to sacrifice BP to ensure you regularly get worse odds.
These types of parity changes take them ages. They simmer on the backburner for far too long.
They knew it since PTB yeah. But stuff that comes to PTB is hardly scrapped as a whole. There is just too much effort in prototyping, development and internal testing, why should they throw that out? Even delaying might be more work than just releasing the current state and address the remaining issues (since you will have to remove features from the code base again, which gets more and more difficult the bigger the change is).
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@ACleverName4Me said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097451#Comment_3097451
Double iri mikey is pretty rare for me to see. But I do know that when you face it's most likely that you did have interaction with him, you may not know it though. Could have been stalking you from far but he needs to drain at least 2 survivors fully to get almost teir 3 if doing that.
Being stalked does not count as interaction for me. Double iri mikey won't attack at all until he got P3. SO if anything he starts a chase to get PWYF stacks. Thats why its so boring, or "uneventful".
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@ACleverName4Me said:
Because it's fun, interesting and myers is meant to keep you on your toes and be unpredictable. That's why many of his addons changes how he's played.
We must play different games then, bc Mikey with both iri addons is pretty boring for me, both as and against. There's no interaction until EW3 is reached, and then it's more like hide an seek than actually escaping. I won't deny that being chased by a killer that you know can take you out instantly is tense, but for the first one being moried this way it's just unfair, esp. if Mickey feeds on others and you are the one paying the price for.
My biggest complaint about that type of build: It punishes EVERYONE, BP- and pip-wise. You can mori all four, and still get only about 12k points and depip. The survivors will have even lower BP. And if the survivors get out, they will only have some Lightbringer and Evader, and Mickey will have more or less nothing.
If you don't care for BP or Grade but just the fun, it may be alright for you. But when you playing for BP and/or grades, tombstones are just a giant waste of time.
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That's still only the steam counts. Do we have any data on consoles and Epic?
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I think they showed some data recently where it was something like 40% survivors are solo Q. And most of them do have EXTREMELY MISERABLE games currently. Me as well. If I take clairvoyance with me its bearable, if all falls apart i can hide and wait for the hatch. But I have the jonah challenge right now, so someone has to escape before me. That challenge is IMPOSSIBLE in solo Q currently. Bc. you either get teammates that are just as frustrated as you and don't progress the game. Or you have a somewhat good team, but the killer, although having it as easy as never before, still tunnel and camp like crazy to get the first survivror out.
So no, the (soloQ) survivors are not conspiring, but they get more and more frustrated, and will eventually switch role or quit playing. We already see that in increased killer queues times. If killers don't start to play a little more lenient, now they clearly have the power rule esp. against solo Q, it will haunt them back by ever increasing queue times and/or hefty perk adjustments. And if we are really unlucky, that whole situation will really drive many players away from the game. Solo Q is a large chunk of the player base, we shouldn't risk to lose that players.
Disclaimer: I'm more of a killer main, but forced to play solo Q bc of the insane killer queue. I was so excited for this update, and I really feel most of the changes are great. But the solo Q situation is horrendous right now, and needs to be adjusted fast!
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Because for some reason Killers who failed all game and camp during Endgame think they deserve the pity Kill.
Or they played according to the survivor rule book, two-hooking everyone, but did not have enough to hook everyone for a third time.
Also, camping vie endgame is perfectly fine. What else should the killer do, giev you the unhook for free?
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
Grind has been reduced for veteran players by 10%. By removing BBQ + WGLF double BP, adding tax for prestiging and forcing prestige it doesn't seem like they've done anything positive at all.
I'm also finding Escape Cake and Party Streamers a lot less now. Wouldn't put it past BHVR to decrease the rate at which they appear in bloodwebs.
I would call myself a veteran player, and it reduced the grind for my survivors by 31% / 37% percent (depending on which surv). Don't know where you got that 10% from. The 20k tax is neglectable, and the small webs actually help getting the remaining perks with less BP.
Also, with every next new characters, the additional grind stays exactly the same, it's no longer increasing. Thats the big benefit of the change.
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@Mercês said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082324#Comment_3082324
I get it. But the grind is worse. Because before bloodweb Lv. 30-ish it's very hard to path to the things you want, because the bloodweb is small and you just buy everything that comes with it. And when you reach Lv. 50. You are obligated to prestige and start all over again. Fair for you? Better for you? I don't think so.
For fetching perks, starting all over at level 1 actually helps, yes, at least it feels like it. For addons its bad, sure, but again, thats farming for me, not grinding. But don't mistake me, the whole point of mandatory prestiging is also strange for me. Don't know why they don't just let it be optional. But that's nothgin to do with the catch-up system granting me 2.8k perk tiers.
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When you have all perks, so everything is unlocked for you, your grind is finished, simple as that. Why should the system do anything for you, if you are not grinding (you said it yourself, doing bloodwebs for addons is more like farming)?
To post some actual data about the grind reduction, here's my experience:
Before the update, I had two survivors will all 321 perk tiers, five with around 200 perk tiers, and the remaining ones (24) with around 180 perk tiers. After the update, all the remaining, not maxed out charachters are around 300 perk tiers. So the update gifted me around 80-100 perk tiers PER SURVIVOR, which cumulates to roundabout 2800 perk tiers (5*80 + 24*100). Thats 1400 bloodwebs in the old system, times 50k BP required per web (very optimistic estimate) -> 70.000.000 BP required in the old system. And thats just to get to the point where I am NOW. There are still 20 perk tiers left per character, but that last 20 can be easily fetched after prestiging, bc. the bloodwebs are small again.
Sure not everyone will have such a big reduction. But anyone that has many characters unlocked and wants to have all the perks on all that characters, they received a MASSIVE grind reduction, now and most importantly, for the future as well. These are the players which really "suffered" under the ever increasing grind, not the new players, not the ones using only one or two chars as mains. It's these players that really needed a reduction, and they got it from that update.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081543#Comment_3081543
Well, regression perks affect all 4 survs
Yes but they do not give you an instant auto-win. Stacked Endurance and end game gave you exactly that. They deactivated DS in end game exactly to prevent such situations, but the stacked endurance just added it back in. Of course it would be removed again between PTB and live, no one should be surprised by that.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081543#Comment_3081543
Why do you think it is "way more busted"? For them to do it, they had to be standing around doing nothing or else the conspicuous clause would shut it off.
Bc it guaranteed you free escapes in the end game, better than prior BT+DS could ever do. And it allowed for BS body blocking and build up MoM tokens insanely fast. It may not have been so bad in solo Q, but against highly coordinated swfs it would be a complete nightmare
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Pff, not even using Insidious, what an amateur.
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Bc stacking endurance is way more busted, esp when all four survivors are doing this.
Sure there are still killers stacking gen protection, which is really not necessary. But the individual perks changed massively. Ruin is extremely rare, pop is rare, PR+DMS is barely used. I had way more Thana and Overcharge games, even jolt was used more often. BBQ is also used way less than before. So the meta did change, just not so much as hoped (yet).
But I feel the patch was the right direction. When playing a killer, I feel much more confident to run gimicky or meme builds adn not be totally stomped by the survivors to do so. Let's hope many "casual" killer players recognize this as well and experiment more with the lesser used perks.
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The problem is not so much the killer, but the player behind it. You can have a chill nurse just trying out the blinks or a hardcore sweaty comp nurse only satisfied when 4 man slugging at 5 gens. You can have a skillfull chaser bubba, or a lame facecamping one. Sure you could take FL when knowing you face hag or nemi, but thats not really fair, imo.
I'm more for giving the survivors the possibility to check the killers profile. So you know if your killer is playing to be a d*ck on purpose (as it's eminent when they wear ther negative comments as badges). All my last encounters with the most obnoxious killers had such steam pages.
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@VcatoV86 said:
Developers have been listening almost exclusively to killers. For years.
Don't believe me?
1.) "Maps are too dark. I can't find Blendette!" Maps were redesigned and brightened.
2.) "Loops are too hard! They are godloops!" Almost* (all?) godloops were erased. Most decent loops were taken out as well.
3.) "Gens pop too quickly! I can't do anything!" Gen time was increased.
4.) "Hooks are too far apart! Survivors are abusing this!" Hooks were brought closer together.
5.) "Deadhard is too much! They get 2 seconds extra time in a chase/miss my hit (even though they gained exhaustion)!" DH was nerfed.
6.) "Decisive strike is not fair! If they are down, I deserve to get a hook!" DS was nerfed.
7.) "Flaslights are too OP! I can't play against them!" Flashlights were adjusted/overhauled.
8.) "Keys and hatches are not fair! I deserve to kill everyone!" Keys and hatch were nerfed.
Now before you say: "Well, killers were a little underwhelming and SWF was too strong"--I agreed! But gain some perspective on just how much the devs always, for years, have catered to the killers.
Complaining about forever Legion is the least of your concerns.
I think you are massively oversimplifying it:
1.) The main complaints about dark maps came from using new moon offerings. And they WERE really busted, you could hide forever with it, making extremely boring games. But thats not the reason it got changed. The offerings where discontinued bc it made the creation of new maps too much of a hassle. And only Coldwind was actively reworked to be in daylight. It has nothign to do with killers complainging, they had implementation / design decisions for that changes.
2.) All good loops erased? You mean busted loops like Ironworks window, Storehouse windows, old cow tree. Good riddance I say. We STILL have pretty busted loops, main house of Garden of joy for example. And even if it is less god loops, there are still many god pallets. E.g. the four god pallets in the bathroom corner of the game. However this ones survived the rework.
3.) Gen time was increased NOW, yes. After 6 years. Boy do killers get their whishes fulfilled fast!
4.) There's no such change, thats BS. If anything, there are bugs currently where they spawn to close together. Also, there was a time not so long ago where you literally could only hook one person in one side of Ormond, and when that hook was gone, that side was totally safe for survivors. You had NO CHANCE to reach another hook, if a survivor got down there. Granted that was a bug as well. But you know what also happens often and is likely not a bug? Hook abundance near exit gates. I had SO MANY games where the survivors f***ed up at the gate, but I could only hook one bc all other hooks are to far away. And when the other survivors can sabo that one hook, it gg ez for you.
5.) DH for distance was busted. When playing killer now, you will just realize how often it would have extended the chase by a significant amount. The "two seconds" would only apply in a dead zone, but good survivors will avoid that if they can.
6) DS 1.0 was TOTALLY broken (instant DS for EVERYONE). DS 2.0 was still broken (instand DS for obsession and wiggle + ds for others). DS 3.0 was more or less fine, except that you could touch a gate without loosing it. All that changes were highly justified. DS 4.0 now disables in endgame, to not allow free escapes. That may be harsh, but understandable. It being reduced to 3 seconds might be too much, but thats more or less consens on everyone.
7) Flashlight changes did not really change anything, they are still extremely powerful in the right hands. And you can still be blinded from outside your pov, maybe even when facing a wall when picking up. Really bad example for the point you want to proove.
8) 3-man escape through hatch was one of the stupidest things possible. It was the literal definition of a robbed game, with the use of an item. Hatch is the last resort escape, and should never have been possible for more than one survivor. I would have prefered a different solution for the hatch (former spawn rules, but keys can only open a hatch during EGC), but the current situation actively prevents camping the hatch. And slugging to find hatch. And since both parties don't know the location of the hatch beforehand, the last survivor has a good chance to find it before the killer, esp. with perks like Left Behind / Clairvoyance. Using Clairvoyance is actually pretty reliable for ecaping in solo Q. That wouldn't be as reliable with old hatch spawn rules.
I could compile a list about "devs only catering for survivors" now, but I'm too lazy, and it does not help anything. Such bold claims are nearly always utter BS. Both sides get buffs/nerfs, and for the longest time, maybe since the beginning, survivors where more powerful, so you could even say all your mentionend "catering for killer" was still justified, since it all brought killers to the level of survivors. Only now, with the recent patch, one could argue that killers might finally have the edge. After six years.
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The bonus even got kill switched now, so it definitely was bugged. The mental gymnastics sluzzy is doing to push through their agenda is really astonishing.
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@feechima said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073823#Comment_3073823
I think you are underestimating the less distance survivors are getting when hit. Even the faster pallet break when paired with enduring or brutal strength a lot of killers are using, are making getting to another pallet when a killer breaks the current one harder to do. Its not just DH which is a one time use that has somehow caused survivors to lose. Its a combination of several factors which was the intention of the devs to help killers end chases faster. Less distance when getting hit, faster swipes, unsafe loops, faster second tier bl, and longer gens.
Yeah, that could have some impact as well. It was only noticing many siutation in which a dead hard would have enabled another loop, and how much the chases were shorter without every survivor running them.
It could also be that I faced so many survivors which were so used to their dead hard that they struggled to loop without it. Many were running lithe, I guess as a replacement for dead hard, but rarely it was timed well to get to another loop.
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I gotta admit, most of my killer games yesterday felt a little bit to easy. It was/is really eminent how powerful DH for distance was, when that does not happen now anymore. So many situation were I thought like "and another loop", only to realize that thats no longer possible.
I also had one particular Leon that seemed to be very determined to get value from his OTR, even if it did not give him any real advantage. Like tanking a hit while I try to hook someone, although it was a hook trade. Instead of just leaving with his OTR active and having it ready if I followed him after the hook, he practically wasted it with this move. Two times.
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Thats not how it works!
Lethal increases an existing aura duration by 2 seconds. Scratched or vanity mirror DONT HAVE a duration, they are unlimited, active as long as you stalk. The same goes for Amandas letter from Pig or All seeing blood from Wraith.
It's just not a bug, it works as intended.
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Not just actively prestiging, the higher tiers were also not granted through the catch-up mechanic for me. I only got first tier on my survivor, alhtough it should have been third tier.
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Vanity Mirror does not have a duration that can be lengthened, you see the aura as long as you stalk.
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I find it really annoying that you can't lunge to destroy the locks, and you will just bump on the locker. Why can't it just break when you hit the front of the locker, regardless of position and normal/lunge? That wouldn't be op or something, but reduce the clunkiness.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069278#Comment_3069278
No, there's one big difference. They could sacrifice these flans and immediately skip the grind by getting p3 for free. What point is there even in having flans in the first place? They give you more bp, bp which are usually spent on perks. You won't need them however if you already own all perks.
If you do not plan to play the characters after prestiging them to P1 (P3 after mid-chapter), than you can do this, yeah.
For me it's not the right approach, bc I don't have a survivor main but play whoever I feel like. The P1'ed survivors would be "naked" besides perks, but I like to take items, addons and offerings complementing my perk build.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069254#Comment_3069254
These flans will be obsolete anyway once you have all perks unlocked for everyone for the rest of time. However if you decide to keep your flans you'll be forced to spend countless hours on grinding (without even having access to something like BBQ) just to get these characters to prestige 3. Save yourself the stress and prestige right away.
Countless hours on grinding -> so not different from now?
Also, if OP is not interested in the "rewards" (bloddy cosmetic and charms), he can stop at P3, which wouldn't be to bad to grind to, esp with many stored up event offerings.
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There's no way. If you still have to prestige, you can only have your items or your background.
I would say, keep the items, esp when there are vent offerings.
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I will give the last one the hatch / gate if they were not playing toxic/annoying and I do not need it (for BBQ, challenges, emblems for ranking up). Esp. when I'm nearly maxed out on BP, I'll likely give it to the last survivor, since it would only be like 200 BP more for me, but 5k / 7k for the survivor. I wish more killers would handle it this way, esp during events with multiple offerings.
I was offered a pity kill maybe five times during my playtime. I really appreciate the offer, the ones doing so are (wo)men of honor, but I'll just carry them to the gate and let them crawl out. Pity downs / hooks I will take, but let them unhook and run out in exchange.
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@TheSubstitute said:
I give both free escapes and kills. I've also gotten both in about a 60/40 ratio. I don't view them as pity escape/kills but rather good sportsmanship and helping another player. For brand new survivors it completely sucks trying to get BP and 5K for survival plus however much they get hitting my Killer with plywood definitely helps.
For Killers that show good sportsmanship but are struggling I'll give them a free hook or kill as well. I think the gesture is misunderstood a lot of the time because some, not a majority but some, smack me on hook after.
I also only two hook as Killer unless BMed if a survivor plays a group 2×BP offering. With how scarce BP is I'm good with letting survivors go as that's at least a potential 10K BP per survivor for the escape and only 3 or 4K for me if I kill them.
Anyway, I don't view it as a pity thing and more of a sportsmanship and I'm trying to help out a fellow player thing when I do it.
Problem is, escaping will increase their MMR, making for harder matches which they likely are not ready for (given that the MMR system actually works, of course)
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@Absoluterealdipper said:
This may be just a small problem but while Survivors can't see the killer's name, the killer can see the survivor's name and eventually streamsnipe as many lesser known ones have a "ttv" in their name. So just to make things a little more fair regarding this, Killers should only see generic Survivor names like "Dwight" or "Claudette". If there are multiple of the same characters it's just "Dwight 1" and "Dwight 2".
As I said, this may not be a huge problem, but it's annoying for streamers when your round is ruined because the killer always knows where you are
Edit: I suggest generic names and not just disabling them so you can still have somewhat of an overview of who you hooked
I'm more for the opposite solution:
Give the survivors the ability to check the killer players profile. Bc. whenever I had some particular toxic / unenjoyable killer (hardcore camping and tunneling), they were wearing their negative profile comments as badges. I don't want to play against players that play the game as "unfair" as possible out of malice or just to "farm the salt".
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I feel survivors (me included) will miss the good ol' BBQ days after the midchapter patch. With BBQ, you new perfectly well when and where to counter it, be it lockers, hiding behing gens, faking to go in one direction or my personal favorite, fake to hide into a locker (so hilarious to watch a killer run straight to an empty locker to check xD).
The new, better aura reading alternative are so much harder to expect and counter. Without swf or kindred, it's hard to know when Floods of Rage might proc, since your team mates will trigger it. With Darkness revealed, you can totally miss it's activations, so not even expecting that you were seen. I guess I should run distortion more often after the patch ^^.
The new Lethal persuer buffing any other aura duration is the icing on the cake.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060562#Comment_3060562
"Pop's nerf is so slight that it barely matter"
Ah yes a nerf which severance is directly proportional to the progress done on a gen is so slight it doesn't matter?
Old pop gives you 20sec no matter what (except the gens done less than 20%).
New pop gives you, on a 99% gen:
Progress: 90sec*0,99 = 89,1sec
Regress: 89,1sec*0,2 = 17,1sec
Plus built-in "pop"
90*0,025 = 2,25 sec
At BEST it gives you 19,35sec worth of regress.
Now let's see the "worst" case, a gen with for example 10% progress.
Old: Flat 8sec.
New:
Progress: 90sec*0,1 = 9sec
Regress:. 9sec*0,2 = 1,8sec
Plus kick: 4,05sec.
50% value and even that only thanks to the flat kick bonus.
On any gen between 20 and 80% (5,85sec-16,65sec regress) pop got nerfed by up to 72% depending on the stat of the gen.
And sorry but if i have to walk twice or thrice the time it takes of the gen to even find the damn thing then i would say the perk is rightfully dead.
(Someone may gladly correct me if my calculations or the logic of them have some error in them.)
You dont' NEED to pop at 10% to begin with! You always look for the gen with the most progress to pop it, you usually do that now and you'll do that after the mid-chapter. Popping a gen with 40% is nice, but not as important as popping one with 90%.
So, in the most important situations, where pop is needed most, it gives you (using your numbers) 19,35 compared to flat 20.0 seconds. Oh what a major difference, the perk sure is unplayable. /s
It's ridiculous to say the perk is dead. It's power is barely scratched for high-progress gens, and in only gets considerably weaker the lower the current ge-progress is. But in that cases you just DONT NEED pop to begin with. You need pop for preventing / delaying gens from being completed, not to ensure no gen gets any progress at all.
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@kaskader said:
Like i said many times before and i will say this again KIILERS needs a reward and Incentive for not tunneling and camping, however the recant patch has turned it to the other direction nerfing healthy perks and forcing killers to ''unfun gameplay'' lets do it by examples:
pop: Pop goes the Wessel has been nerfed so badly its no longer pays off for the killer to leave the hook, you probably waste more time going to that gen than you gain on the actual regression. healthy perk got nerfed into the ground good job devs :).
pain res: Giving the killer information after hooking a survivor is ALWAYS good and healthy, if there's information to work with its more possible that killer go and pressure that gen instead of camping. Well they removed it so what's going to happen is the most killers will just take the 15% regression in the background and stay under the hook.
Overcharge: Now, overcharge had a potential to become another healthy perk that promotes and rewards the killer pressuring the gens, well guess what? it got nerfed so extremely that nobody will ever use it. Do devs understand that walking to a generator and kicking it and also camping the gen until its regressed is a HUGE time investment from the killer?.
Devs for god sake you cannot complain about killers using ''Unfun tactics'' or whatever you called it and making changes that incentives this gameplay AT THE SAME TIME.
Generator kicking perks are the most healthy things in this game, rewarding the killers and at the same time making the game more ''Fair'' for the survivor. Nerfing them is only making the game less enjoyable and YES especially for the survivors which is hilarious.
Since the healthy perks got nerfed into the ground what i will do and probably many other players we'll be using the passive game slow down (deadlock, tana, corrupt, dms, dying light ,dms,gift of pain,) and it will be a new meta. Ultra camping and tunneling making the game very unfun for the survivors and unrewarding for killer. I suggested many times before about making pop base kit to reward and incentives killer to pressure the gens giving the killer a TOOL to do that. Like i said i think tunneling and camping will be more prevalent than ever before.
Dude, Pop's nerf is so slight that it barely matters. If anything, complain about the ruin nerf, THAT ONE was severe!
About pain res, yes it's sad the scream and interrupt is gone. I would have liked if it kept the scream / a notification, with the interrupt being gone to destroy the interaction with DMS. But on the other hand, smart survivors let go of the gen before the hookinh, so you would also not get any info out of that now. Use Surveillance with your Pain res, and you should know where to go to.
You have got to explain to me how a 400% regression by Overcharge + 100% from Call of brine would be "healthy" for the game. Such a big regression makes soloQ extremely miserable, since you cannot coordinate to limit the impact of that regression. It's already bad enough with current ruin, but a 500% regression would be even worse.
"Nerfing generator kicking"? What are you smoking? They actually buff it this mid-chapter it giving it a base regression! All they did between PTB and live is toning down ONE perk that coincidentally is a gen kick perk. And you are holding an eulogy for gen kicking, as if the devs removed that from the game. You seriously have to calm down, mate.
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@MrCrazyCat62 said:
It censors so randomly and so poorly that I can't even communicate about the game.
A toggle for switching the filter on or off would only work unidirectional your side, you cannot make it bidirectional bc then you could force your slurs to be seen by others. And if you have it disabled on your side, how do you know if the filter randomly filtered something the otther won't be able to read, maybe not even understanding what youy wanted to say? It just does not work.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058661#Comment_3058661
No, they should just remove these stupid nerfs from it and Calm Spirit - period. The definition of a perk: “an advantage or benefit following from a job or situation.” So why are so many survivor perks being turned into something that actually puts the user at a disadvantage? Who in their right mind thought it was ok for Botany to go from giving a 33% medkit efficiency, to not only removing it but adding a 20% medkit penalty to the perk user? The devs are sacrificing perk variety all in the name of shaking the meta - which is still going to result in mostly seeing the same 12 or so perks on each side at the end of the day anyway!
Stop nerfing fine perks out of existence, BHVR!
The devs do not want insanely fast heals, which are possible with new botany and a green med kit. I agree on that being problematic.
They want to mitigate that by adding the efficancy debuff. Which I think is a bad solution.
Thats why I wrote why not just make the 50% speed not work on medkits? That would also prevent stacked heal speeds, and it would be much more of a "natural" solutio imo, given that Auto Didact has the same restricton of not working for medkit heals.