Carth
Carth
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but a perk that just prevents a pallet stun would be useless at the vast majority of loops unless you are comboing it with something else and if you are dedicating at least 50% of your loadout to it you can already bring spirit fury + enduring or make use of (to be fair, depending on killer) dissolution.
Let's take for example any god/safe/mind-gameable pallet. If you just ran a perk to completely negate a pallet stun what exactly are you going to do next after the pallet is dropped and you avoid the stun? You're probably going to have to break the pallet anyways/the survivor will clearly see you not get stunned and begin looping. I don't see how a perk that just by itself negates a single pallet stun would be useful compared to already existing perk options/never run. I will admit it would be useful at small/short loops that you could continue chasing from but I don't think such a perk would really be that useful compared to the anti-pallet options that already exist.
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Very rude behavior and no it won't be solved by basekit unbreakable. If Im a jerk like the people who do this, standing over you and smacking you each time you get back up is totally possible. Will it be harder? Sure, if multiple survivors are alive they can only do it to one at a time but basekit unbreakable will not universally solve the problem.
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@Dogma_loki said:
Let's just squash the survivor conspiracy theories involving bringing maps and "tactical advantage" right here. Yes the RNG on maps is terrible, for both sides. When me and my friends bring a map offering its so we don't get Auto haven/MacMillian for the millionth time. BHVR's random map selection logarithm seems to be horribly broken and has been for years.
You can also bring in a green offering that kills any map offerings brought in by other players if it bothers you that much.
Sure, if sac ward didn't have a cute little caveat of "if a 4 man swf wants to take you to x map, you are going."
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There's no true stealth killer(except maybe pig?) every killer that has 'stealth' as part of their kit makes some kind of amount of noise for survivors to know they are in the area when they make use of their powers 'stealth' (myers breath, ghostface flaps, wraith snarls, dredge vaccums, sadako has lullaby, demo stomps and screams)
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I agree with the put it back to five seconds idea. Removing the end game useage got rid of arguably one of the most frustrating/annoying points of it, turning into a protection tool for the rest of the team. Having a one time five second stun is fair
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Cutting it in half would mean 30 seconds max for a one time activation perk that requires hooking all four survivors? Sure, "killer main".
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AI + fear of survivors complaining about "counterplay" means you can't do anything intelligent with his power. Just like POTD for Pyramid Head you can only use it effectively at certain scenarios, POTD is different in that its in animation locks, however the point still stands that you don't see PH shooting a wave out mid chase for no reason. That reason being it will likely miss/the survivor can dodge out of the way every time if they react in time.
In a similar vein, the knight cannot use his power mid-chase, he stuns himself, loses sight of survivors entirely, has a massive green orb showing the path of the guard + what path the killer is trying to create at all times, and lastly the delay of the guard + time to spawn = survivor can easily W away with time to spare. He IS good at camping resources but absolutely terrible at everything else.
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Dead Hard, old Mettle of man, old object of obsession, boil over's initial rework, old balanced landing, old decisive strike, circle of healing
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@Regulus47 said:
And this is a bad thing why? Knight dropping a guard instantly took no skill and had next to no counterplay if there wasn't a pallet immediately near the loop to run to. Seems like they're incenticising a more dynamic way to play him
It incentives people to not play a terrible killer.
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You can't ban for this because, as others have said, it's not holding the game hostage. If you ban for this can you ban memeing killers like basement chest buba, and stealing item builds with franklin's and hoarders? What about bell spamming wraith? Or any of the various 'silly builds' you can do. Or how about a killer going afk in the corner and giving up? Or a survivor killing themselves/dcing on first hook?
Am I saying this is fun or to be celebrated? No, it's annoying but you can't ban for "not playing as intended" without hard defining every scenario. It's why nothing is banned except body blocking.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281504#Comment_3281504
good strawman lol
Is it not true you can do a gen in 45 seconds with a toolbox and hyperfocus + stakeout? You don't even need stakeout if you can hit greats on your own, stakeout makes it so anyone can do it even if you're awful with greats.
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@Steakdabait said:
people really like forgetting that gen time has been increased by 10 seconds huh
Bhvr: "Why yes gens are going too fast at 80 seconds, also here's a perk that lets you do them in 45 seconds solo".
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Sooo gut the perk like ruin and thanat?
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Run distortion. Just like killers are told to run sloppy/shattered hope when complaining about CoH and fearmonger when complaining about fogwise, another very strong aura perk introduced this DLC.
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I am still really confused on BHVRS balancing approach to nerfing out of line perks. Dead Hard and Circle of healing both were touched in the tiniest ways possible and are still both very much meta. Meanwhile perks like ruin and thanat got entirely dumpstered.
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his design is atrocious. They HAVE to keep the guards bad/slow so players aren't feeling like they are getting crushed by some super speed AI they have no chance against, but at the same time by doing that he feels miserable to play as. He's just an odd design that feels more like an experiment into BHVR testing AI logic than a real killer.
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It does function like how you think but considering the scream is on a 25 second cooldown and dms is 30 seconds long in a worst case scenario you'll only have 5 seconds of blocking. It would be nice if you could control it somehow but I don't think anyone is galaxy brain enough to somehow injure a survivor and know they will get a DMS procc in about 25 seconds and have survivors outside the TR working on gens.
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You mean the killer that has literally every hallmark of "survivor fun" in his design is bad?
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The only body blocking that will get you in trouble is blocking a survivor into a corner for an extended period of time. Yes the game can still progress overall, but for that one person it cannot. Their options are either wait and hope their teammates do gens and wait out EGC or quit the game and eat a DC penalty. It is reportable.
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How is VHS balanced for the top tier with it's one sided terror track mechanic, teen hand holding with mechanics like rift and book of the dead?
It died because the AI tier play style of monster is beyond boring. "Stand in a room and wait for cooldowns -> move into next room using cooldowns so you don't insta die -> rinse and repeat and never get greedy" is awful.
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@lemonsway said:
The problem is the Gen kicking Meta for killer is way too obnoxious. Overcharge alone is already too much for most survivors to handle. Even Opression is. Can you imagine if the regression on the other 3 random gens was slightly better? Opression would be the only Gen Perk you'd need. However just like always people would definetly stack other gen Perks.
Regarding Eruption, the worst part is clearly the Incapacitated effect. You won't always know if people are in chase or not and you won't know when they are going down so it's very hard to play around it.
The best counter as always is to just finish the gens faster before Eruption gets value. It's all survivors can do, be more efficient.
Oppression is OP? So taking 60 seconds to undo 15 seconds of a solo survivor on a gen is too strong? And that can be tapped at any point in time to stop it completely with 1 frame of animation and nothing else?
Overcharge is actually even worse than that for the first ~12 seconds, that can be again, gen tapped with a single frame of animation and stopped. It's an easier skill check to hit than DS and most survivors have no problem hitting DS.
I do agree eruption is too strong vs solo queue and the incapacitate effect should be swapped with something else but heavily disagree other gen kick perks are too strong/base gen regression is too strong.
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I do think eruption is over tuned and a dumb perk and should be changed in several ways but disagree with your analysis
Problem 1. You are defining an eruption as 2+ gens per proc most of the time, this is based on what? If a killer is going around kicking every gen prior to getting a down or even kicking every gen they see then that is time spent not chasing or doing anything else. So either way the killer is either not getting multiple gen procs every eruption or they are spending time not chasing/doing anything offensive except going to kick gens prior to trying to get a down.
Problem 2. "There's the undodgeable Incapacitation". It is dodgeable. Very dodgeable. By a SWF. "Guys im about to go down, let go of gens" completely dodges it. Yes I am aware in solo queue you do not have that option and I agree it is bad, but let's not pretend is a flawless uncounterable incap.
It's the same problem as knockout, blindness in general, and most of the other meme countered by swf perks with the difference being that this one is very tangible and noticeable whereas hiding auras aint that great unless you are going out of your way to slug. The design is still awful though. "destroys solo queue and is destroyed by a good swf" does not equal balanced to me
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Yes because nothing says "Hey you should be nice" when seeing 1 or more of these theoretical offerings getting played.
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@Shroompy said:
all guards serve a different purpose. Playing him in this boring way is probably the worst way of playing him. Hes a 1v4 killer, not a 1v1 killer. He has the ability to pressure multiple Survivors at once and do multiple actions at once.
Dont know why everyone went to "Artist 2.0" when the guy isnt even out yet, and his power description doesnt even suggest this sort of playstyle
People are calling him that because using his power in the way it (seems) like it was intended is much weaker in comparison to just using it as an anti loop tool. Similar to the questions asked of pinhead "why does he have range on his chain when it is actually a terrible idea to use it as a long range tool other than the rare scouting/box prevention".
Sure , you can also argue knights guards all serve different purposes but at the end of the day if the best way to play him is purely anti loop with his power then that's what people will do.
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Eruption has been a stupid perk since it's inception because prior to 6.1.0 the values were so low it was literally not worth running compared to other perks. On top of that SWF completely neuters it. It was almost never run and considered pretty trash tier as a result. With 6.1.0 putting an obnoxious 25 second action prevention on it, it is now good but the core of the perk is still the same. It's hard countered by swf and now has the unfortunate side effect of really being brutal vs solo queue.
There have been several good ideas floated in here but realistically the incapacitate effect should be halved/swapped for something else and the swf counter should also go away. It's just a dumb perk and slapping an overpowered effect onto it makes it good sure but it's still a dumb perk at it's core.
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Cleansing the totem as well as a death disabling means unless the perk is beyond amazing no one will ever run it. Even buffing it back to 200% why would you ever take a perk that turns itself off if you do too good over other options? Does hyperfocus turn off once a gen is finished? Does circle of healing disable if gens are done too rapidly or x heals are done in game?
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Because it's an asymmetrical game. Every game would have both sides banning the best perks/items/add-ons to have vs them.
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The people saying fogwise is fair and balanced would probably also say old Object was fair and balanced too.
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The survivor hitbox is constant and pill-shaped. Imagine from their waist up a completely vertical line going straight up. That is the hitbox for the survivor, when they are injured/healing the characters upper body bends over but the hitbox does not match/move with them. If you try to hit the upper body you will miss your attack
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@zarr said:
With Unbreakable, you can pick yourself up in 23.7 seconds. Basekit Unbreakable will take 45 seconds. So that's about half an Unbreakable. Killers got half a Brutal Strength basekit. As well as 25% of STBFL. And more if you also consider the hit sprint reduction. Also 10% of Weasel.
And regardless, it's not about some petty tit-for-tat, these things should be done on a basis of the state of the game, and camping/tunnelling have always been problems and they continue to be (tunnelling honestly only got worse). They are much too effective for how easy they can be, and they often yield uninteractive or downright anti-gameplay experiences. And this is especially the case for non-SWF groups and therefore exacerbates the already problematic balance issue of the SWF/solo gap. There should in fact be more measures to combat these things, such as Kindred basekit, removal of hook grabs, disabling of killer powers within a certain vicinity of hook, unhook invincibility replacing unhook Endurance such that you can get the latter on top of the the former, rebuffed DS, ... Naturally, any and all of these things have to go along with buffs to killers in other regards.
For the record: I'm not a fan of this basekit Unbreakable idea and don't know where it is coming from. Camping and tunnelling are by far the most prevalent and problematic aspects of killer gameplay, and BHVR decides that slugging needs to be rebalanced? I for one enjoy slugging playstyles a lot, playing either role. I am disappointed with this change which will all but delete this playstyle, you will only be able to slug opportunistically for a brief duration anymore. Knock Out is basically dead, and it as well as Third Seal were some of my favourite perks for a playstyle where I just chase until I down people and then leave them. That is a very welcome change of pace even when I'm playing survivor, since there's a lot of action and chases and little downtime of going through the motions, as well as no camping and tunnelling.
I hope the universal Unbreakable thing won't make it to live. What I do however think does need to be addressed are instances where everyone is in the dying or hooked state. Not only does it make for a boring endgame sweeping the map for slugs or trying to hide as a slug, but there's obviously also obnoxious people that let people bleed out just to be annoying. Allowing survivors to pick themselves up if everyone is either dead, dying or hooked would solve this. It would obviously still be a survivor buff though, and I would want there to be some endgame buff for killers to go alongside with this. Plenty of those to choose from, including perk buffs, various of which BHVR should have shipped ages ago already anyway.
On a related note, the "Mori" changes that apparently were the reason for BHVR to consider basekit Unbreakable to begin with are also strange. Since you'll only ever get to mori people when you have already won (or when everyone else has escaped), it's not like it's a killer buff. Plus with the stupid, uncalled-for changes to Devour and Rancor, as well as the changes to the Mori offerings themselves of course, we'll if anything see much fewer kill animations than we used to. It's basically Cypress Mori basekit, and anybody that's ever used those knows that they are far from a guaranteed kill.
Invincibility on top of endurance? So I can bodyblock twice for my teammate and still have a third health state plus an exhaustion perk combod with old DS and the potential for a reset via DS in order to use DH for a total of four - five health states on unhook?
I agree with most of your points but that sounds absolutely ridiculous for swf unless it also comes with the stipulation that endurance and this invincibility state make you lose collision so you can't bodyblock with them.
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The basekit unbreakable at 45 seconds is fine. The 22.5 and potential to stack reductions should not exist/be capped to a max of maybe -10 seconds to the timer.
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because it's a perk that starts with 0 value and takes time to ramp up, 8 hits without the obsession getting involved. 5 Meters is so negligible this would for sure be a repeat of base BT at 5 seconds where people would claim it was beyond worthless and want it ramped up more to 10/15/even higher values. Hook trading, whether due to a killer camping, or EGC where the killer has no reason to leave and has 8 stacks of STBFL is SUPPOSED to be difficult. You should not be able to easily do a "I rush in to unhook, I dead hard immediately after, my teammate body blocks for me with BT + their exhaustion perk, and we all lol to the exit gate". It needs to require more than 1 survivor. The killer is dedicating 25% of their loadout to reduce their melee cooldown timer.
If you are suggesting a numbers nerf then that's fair, but the 4% per token suggested makes it actually worse than the 6.1.0 version by .036 of a second(assuming I did my math right), I don't think .036 of a second is going to make a difference in this scenario.
Is it unfair in that SWF can coordinate easier than solo to do that? Absolutely, but we can say that about literally any survivor interaction right now. Gens(prioritizing, finished gens in progress, stopping regression, avoiding 3 gens, etc), healing, saves are all significantly harder/impossible in solo compared to swf and that's just a part of the game until some kind of comm system is introduced(ping, voice, whatever)
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This would only hurt newer killer players and would not accomplish your goal, in your suggested example of a killer picking a 3 gen out at the start it wouldn't be hard to do this even if gen auras were hidden. I could spawn in to a map, know most of the gen spawns due to experience and then go check for 3 gens based on that knowledge and react accordingly based on what gens I find or do not find all in probably sub 1 minute while also patrolling for survivors. If someone was really dedicated they would even ignore potential chases to find that 3 gen.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3240981#Comment_3240981
They literally just buffed kicking gens so that tapping isn't viable anymore what do you want more
Isn't viable? It takes 1.8 second investment to undo 2.25 seconds. It's literally nothing.
Tapping gens is still viable and in many cases the right move to do even with the "buff".
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While I do think nurse should be nerfed what does this mean if we find a swf team who has 4 man escapes in the hundreds? We can look at depip squid and hardcore survivor experiments, and top tier swf content creators and find similar cases
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237053#Comment_3237053
My apologies, but could you clarify what you mean by "address the efficiency shift that happens with each person down or out"?
It sounds like you're talking about somehow either improving survivor efficiency when team-mates go down/out or reducing killer efficiency in that situation and that sounds terrible for the killer - survivors are strongest at the start of the game when it's 4v1 and to make things harder for the killer the more people he takes out removes one of the killer's only ways of dealing with the asymmetry of the game.
His proposal probably means survivor nerfs early and killer nerfs late. There should probably still be an advantage to either side respectively in those periods of time but it is extremely stark in worst case scenarios on either side(all 4 survivors alive most of the game and also someone dying/dcing at the start/early)
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because where does it stop?
having to choose between recovering OR moving is so frustrating and bad, tenacity needs to be basekit.
Hard of hearing people having to use a perk for info isn't fair, spine chill needs to be basekit.
Being punished for playing a character naturally louder isn't fair, iron will needs to be basekit.
Obviously people aren't hive minds but I have seen requests to make bond, kindred, decisive strike all base kit on this forum.
Additionally survivors are the only side who have gotten almost 100% of the effect of a perk basekit. Killers got sub sub 50% for brutal, save the best for last, and have nothing on the immediate horizon for basekit perks(that we know of). Survivors are about to get a second extremely meta perk that while not that big of a deal at basekit significantly buffs unbreakable in terms of both speed to get up and infinite recoveries.
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They're probably nervous about having to worry about "broken" and un-intended interactions between killers powers(low risk here, probably just bugs) and potentially new perks. The medkit does not provide anything new whatsoever whereas new perks might do x or y that is broken/too strong with the dash available. Similar to their old logic of why so many perks had the "if a survivor loses a health state via a basic attack". They don't want to constantly have to keep the offering in the back of their mind I imagine. Not saying it's a super great reason, but it is a reason to not want to keep a limited time acquisition item available forever.
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You could consider swapping Merciless Storm/Third Seal for Coul if you want to make healing skillchecks also extremely awful.
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It's server sided(specifically for dead hard), neither the survivor client nor killer client has full authorization of if the hit counts or not. In both cases depending on latency you can see roll back occur. If the killers swing got to the server before your dead hard the hit will count.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3224451#Comment_3224451
Saw chapter is a thing tho
There is a huge difference between Saw and terrifier/art the clown. Forced satanic sacrifice/genitial mutlation/cutting off and wearing a woman's breasts and nudity is a very different beast from 'omg reverse bear trap head explosion!'. A good litmus test is would you feel the exact same showing brand new horror fans saw vs terrifier? For me personally at least, the terrifier movies are in entirely different leagues. Not saying they are bad or some super horrible thing, they are just over the top for the sake of being over the top and I doubt BHVR would involve itself with it.
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@LylakLavender said:
Doesn't pentimento work the same way? I could be wrong but I thought as long as there is totems a killer can immediately activate it? Don't play killer too often so not sure.
No, you can not re-pentimento an already destroyed pentimento totem. Or in other words if the following chain happens; totem is destroyed(by survivor or killer smashing boon) -> Killer pentimentos it -> Survivor cleanses it, it's done. You cannot bring it back by any current method.
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No way BHVR would want to be linked to straight up gore flicks. A younger audience/people who are just interested in common horror would not like art the clown and its over the top gore and concepts.
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50% of what though? High MMR? Low MMR? Mid? Aggregate? If we have killer stomping at low MMR and survivors stomping at high MMR and the aggregate is 50% is the game balanced? People on both ends of the spectrum would have terrible games but we would have our "50%" value. There's a reason why BHVR does not release the stats bracketed by MMR and instead shows the full aggregation.
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I'm assuming this is mostly about PR, Bringing sabo to counter scourge hooks requires a lot, it's one of the best regression perks in terms of raw % in game ATM after 6.1.0 gutted ruin and pop, and it requires nothing except travel time to the hook to activate.
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The issue with this is where do we stop, do we attach incentives to perks next? Running off meta gets you more BP?
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216836#Comment_3216836
Many streamers come up with the perfect optimal conditions for perks and then cry about it being broken. I remember the hype and OP drama videos showcasing "broken" Soul Guard, Tenacity, and Unbreakable. They went on about how unfair it was and would make videos with a Hex active showing a Survivor getting up 10x in a match, etc. The game was over; killers will never be able to slug and so on.
Soul guard was broken. You could create a train of unkillable survivors until they slapped the cooldown on it.
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I don't get the comparison to OTR and DS. Those perks provide (theoretical)value the entire match, NWO literally only works a single time at end game. You can turn NWO off at EGC as soon as it can do something early/mid game to help killers like OTR and DS can.
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There is only one scenario it matters and that is when you throw an injured survivor into the exit gate and they go down. In any other scenario it's either not going to matter as you would have picked them up anyway(survivor is injured and you slam, survivor is fully infected and you slam) or the other scenarios are too long(slamming a healthy survivor/throwing a healthy survivor you won't have enough time to bound again or m1 and pick them up before they're out). Heal tech also counters the one scenario if 2+ survivors are at the gate. It's an extremely niche/weak blocker.