CantDeadHarder
CantDeadHarder
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- CantDeadHarder
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271708#Comment_1271708
Except the fact that DS transcends being an anti tunneling perk. Ive been hit by DS after hooking the rescuer, patrolling gens for a bit, and then I find and hit the now fully healed person that was just unhooked within 60 seconds. Now, is that tunneling? No. If I ignore the rescuer and target the unhooked person for the whole match, Im tunnelling.
One could make a similar argument for NOED. Allow me to format it in the same way you did yours.
Get NOED
Its one of the few chances you have to get kills.
Although whiny survivors pretend they dont gen rush and ignore totems and want NOED nerfed because they want easy escapes.
Gen rushing exists, its awful, get NOED.
Both of them are unfairly powerful.
I mean you could Eat DS early so it doesn't cost you later.
I cleanse totems so NoeD doesn't exist in my games.
I think both of the perks are just situational, sometimes they value other times not so much.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271762#Comment_1271762
Then the Devs need to look into adjusting the BP awarded for being chased. I can agree with that, but asking for the whole team to be awared because of a tunnel..
I mean, i can get behind a BP adjustment, or maybe a BP award if you were in the chase the longest; 1 and 2nd place get bonus BP (1st more than 2nd), on the theory that the Killer can tunnel twice. 3rd and 4th place had better be doing gens, or they failed their team at that point.
Look....
Imagine the killer has been tunneling survivor #4 for the whole game while you and others have been doing gens, and you do all of your objectives without ever having any interaction with the killer because they specifically want survivor #4
Survivor #4 deserves more BP than 8k as well as the team. Your team had to play m1 simulator all game because you couldn't be bothered to drop chase, because you wanted survivor 4 sooo badly, even though you will lose the game if you continue chasing.
As a killer, you deserve to depip for playing like that, but not the person you continuously failed to catch. The team didn't come to play DBD just to hold m1 all game because you have a crush on a certain survivor.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271732#Comment_1271732
I hate to say it but that's part of the game. Do you play an FPS and get upset that the sniper sniped you so much that you got a low k/d ratio?
If you could not lose the Killer (and it is possible to lose the Killer in a chase), then you got out-played. The Killer doe snot deserve punishment for not letting you go or not losing you, and you don't deserve pity points for not playing better than the Killer.
I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, but that's what it seems to boil down to in these threads. Either
- The Killer needs to be kicked in the junk for not letting Survivors unhook. Or
- Survivors deserve some trove of free BP because they got out-played.
Does the Killer get free BP if Survivors clear the gens in 5 minutes & he only gets 8k BP because he saw no one & 4 people escaped? No, because he got out-played & could not find anyone or apply pressure.
How am I the one being outplayed when the killer hasnt caught me in the past 5+ minutes? I'm seriously thinking you actually aren't understanding what I am saying.
It's bad enough when you see a teammate get 500 bp (Yes i witnessed a teammate only get 500 Bp) because the killer tunnel mori'd, and because of the massive deadzones now she had nothing to use and ended up only getting that much that's ridiculous. but that's besides the point
If anything it seems like you just saw a pro-survivor thread and automatically assumed that I was bashing killers for tunneling, which i wasn't.
Killer's dont need free BP because as killer you can keep screwing up and still leave with a decent amount of BP, your BP is not capped by how the Survivors play. And exaggerating that 5 gens popped and you found nobody makes me not really want to keep discussing this with you, as you think I am talking about the act of tunneling when I'm talking about how if you survive getting tunneled, it end up being a boring match and you can actually depip because you didnt do actions while being chased.
So if I can't break chase that means I got outplayed, but if I am running the killer for gens upon gens, survivors are op and shouldn't have pallets etc etc. There's your generic statement from a survivor main that you so desperately wanted.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271712#Comment_1271712
I see what you mean.
Your issue is with the 8k cap.
They expect you to do gens during a chase.
Or heal someone while you're getting chased.
This emblem system is pathetic.
It's even worse when you depip cause of it.
Like yeah I can flex about getting tunneled for 5 gens to my friends and all but I still "lost".
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@Shocktober said:
Looks like someone needs to buy Laurie
I have DS but I rarely get to use to because I end up running the killer for more than 60 seconds.
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271679#Comment_1271679
Yes, because my thread about gen times being too short getting shot down was from Killer bias. 🙄
It kind of depends? I mean, getting tunneled sucks, but sometimes it's accdedental, and sometimes it's for actual tactical effect.
2 examples from me today:
Purposeful: I hooked Caludette in the basement, and their friend followed me down to save her. As I was hooking her friend, the first girl kobe'd off the hook literally as I was finishing hooking her friend. ..So I bopped her. I mean, I had no reason to LET her go, but some would scream I 'tunneled'.
Accedental: Same match as above. Claudette #1 is nearly dead on the hook. Claudette #2 comes down to save #1. I still have not left basement because Survivor #3 was hiding in a locker; I was hooking her after re-hooking Claudette #1. Both Claudette's are wearing the same exact outfits, and both we wounded. I swing as what I think is Claudette #2, reasoning she has not been hooked. #1 can run away and heal with her medkit.
It turned out that I had them backwards. I hit the same Claudette who kobe'd before. And #2 was right upstairs now. So I death-hooked #1 & went after my final prey. Again; people would complain that I was camping and tunneling, even though they all literally fell into my lap.
Asking for the entire team to get bonus BP because the Killer did his job is kind of unfair. I mean, I don't yell that I deserve bonus BP as a Killer if the Survivors finish a match in under 4 minutes, because it would be silly to reward me for failing at my job of killing.
The problem is, Killers have more control over what Survivors do, than Survivors have over Killers. So Survivors feel it's the Killer's 'fault' for playing in a way they don't like.
The OTHER problem being that matches end so fast, Killers feel pressured to get a hook ASAP and turn that hook into a kill, to slow down that pressure.
I hear you, but if the killer is tunneling someone and they clearly see that they're wasting time, your whole team is being punished for the killer consistently misplaying by not dropping chase.
I had a game where a myers chased me for 5 gens, from beginning of the game till the end, and I only got around 8k BP while everyone else in the match earned around 10k BP, and I escaped. It's really annoying to play games where I have to be chased forever till my adrenaline pops then I have to run some more, only to leave with 8k BP because the killer had a personal vendetta against me.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Get Decisive Strike.
It's one of the few chances you're going to get to survive.
Although, whiny killers on this forum pretend they don't tunnel and want DS nerfed because they want easy kills.
Tunneling exists, it's awful, get DS.
I do run DS and it does help me get atleast some points in a different category, however, I find that I end up getting chased for more than 60 seconds then i go back on the hook.
Like I said I'm not necessarily talking about tunneling being unfair, I'm just tired of getting no points for being chased for literally the entire game.
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@matchmakingworksfine said:
This entire post makes 0 sense. Why would a survivor be rewarded for losing in the trial early on. Tunneling or not the killer killed you as quickly and efficiently as possible. The whole goal of the game. Why would a survivor be compensated for losing early on. The entire point in winning matches would be a joke and people would just throw marches to farm. Giving survivors extra points for doing actions in a chase while being tunneled would just encourage more toxic behavior from survivors which would in turn make more killers run Moris so you don't get anymore points after being tunneled. Survivors shouldn't be rewarded for failing. You wouldn't give a killer extra points for hooking survivors if gens are being done too fast? Failure is already rewarded enough with crutch perks. It shouldn't be rewarded even more as a game mechanic.
I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.
I'm talking about if you are being tunneled for long periods of time, I'm talking about gens being popped left and right. The killer is denying you points and your team points by only going for you. Not one time in my post did I say survivors should get other points for just being chased, I meant being tunneled out of potential 20k BP.
I never mentioned anything about dying early, so I don't know what you're talking about.
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@ThePetDetective said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1271679#Comment_1271679
nice bait.
In regards to the actual post, you pose some good ideas, but i think the argument "everyone else has a chance to do gens while you die" is strong *enough* that the devs consider this a punishment for the killer, and wouldnt make any particular incentive to not tunnel. Without going too into the fair vs unfair, tunneling is an important tool if someone has a particular perk you need out of the way asap, or if its 4 gens done and you have nothing to show for it.
That said, looking at the changes you propose, it sounds like this can be shoved under the "holy ######### the emblem system is bad" discussion, even though you mostly talk about bp itself. It's also a slippery slope to say max boldness should overflow into altruism, cause whats stopping you from saying all points should overflow into other catagories?
Pretty much, i think this is one of those things you just have to deal with until emblems are fixed, cause thats where i honestly think the problem lies.
but why not? As killer you can get points in other categories during chases. Like bilyl can keep going for chainsaws to increase his deviousness category, while you only get points towards your boldness. You're being punished and getting your BP capped because the killer has a hard on for you lol.
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oop I saw trap and i saw your profile pic and i just assumed it was reverse bear traps, lol sorry.
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@WTBacon said:
Every time a survivor attempts to escape from a Bear Trap, it is always a 25% chance. As each roll is independent from the other, this is a true random distribution. There is a 75% chance the survivor won't escape on the first try, but a 25% chance that they will.
There are many games where survivors always seem to escape on the first or second try. It feels unfair for the killer, who cannot reach the trapped survivor in time.
This can also feel unfair for survivors, who always have a 75% chance to not escape and are forced to try again multiple times. I have recently seen a post on the forums with people who have supposedly required over 15 attempts to escape.
introducing prd
Pseudo-Random Distribution wouldn't remove these cases entirely, but it would stop them from happening as often.
If this were implemented, the chance of escaping the Bear Trap the first time would be considerably lower, but increase in chance every time it does not occur as compensation. This would make it so survivors will rarely escape on the first attempt many times in a row, but would also save survivors from requiring a ludicrous amount of tries in order to break free.
The new probably of escaping the trap would be
P(N) = C * N
N being the number of tries you are currently on, and C would be the initial chance of escape, as well as the number being added.
To keep the chance of escaping a Bear Trap around 25%, C would be 0.084744.. the actual number is very long, let's use ~8.5%. This is what your chance of escape would look like.
- ~8.5%
- ~17%
- ~25%
- ~34%
- ~42%
- ~51%
- ~59%
- ~68%
- ~76%
- ~85%
- ~93%
- ~101%
As you can see, survivors have a significantly lower chance of escaping on the first try (~8.5% compared to 25%). This would make it less likely for survivors to escape early multiple times, and help cases where the killer can feel cheated.
Not only that, but after the 3rd try, your chance of escape actually goes to 25% and beyond. The rare situations where survivors could be stuck on a trap for 12 or more tries would be eliminated completely.
I feel that implementing this will make escaping from Bear Traps feel more fair for everybody.
escape chance add-ons
What follows is the values for Wax Brick and Fastening Tools add-ons. Just putting this here for anyone who wants to see them, not really important. Stopping at 100% for all of them. Not 100% accurate, because I was too lazy to type every decimal place when doing the math, but it's close enough.
These are the values for Wax Brick or Fastening Tools [25% - 5% = 20%]
- ~5.6%
- ~11%
- ~17%
- ~22%
- ~28%
- ~33%
- ~39%
- ~44%
- ~50%
- ~56%
- ~61%
- ~67%
- ~72%
- ~78%
- ~84%
- ~89%
- ~95%
- ~100%
These are the values for Wax Brick AND Fastening Tools [25% - (5% + 5%) = 15%]
- ~3.2%
- ~6.4%
- ~9.6%
- ~13%
- ~16%
- ~19%
- ~23%
- ~26%
- ~29%
- ~32%
- ~35%
- ~39%
- ~42%
- ~45%
- ~48%
- ~52%
- ~55%
- ~58%
- ~61%
- ~64%
- ~68%
- ~71%
- ~74%
- ~77%
- ~81%
- ~84%
- ~87%
- ~90%
- ~93%
- ~97%
- ~100%
As a Survivor player I'd be very ok with this. Despite me never getting out first try lol.
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@CookieBaws said:
Perk is already great as it is, but paired with Resilence it's too strong when people know how to abuse it.
No.
You forget the vault speed build requires you to be injured, this build got popular because of the vacuum windows. It's no broken it just shaves off a few frames and allows you safely vault if the killer is slightly closer to you.
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@Dwigtht said:
Like I get it... You have same shack on each map and you know how to loop it... door window... door window door window door pallet.
But, if you are downed you gonna end up in the basement in the most case and then your team mate has to rescue... so you end up with two people on the hook snowball...
I would avoid being caught close to the shack at any cost.
Well shack is a very strong tile and can waste a lot of the killer's time if you run it efficiently, and it has the best pallet in the game so that's a reason.
I tend to not stay at shack for too long only if the basement has spawned in shack. The basement on any map, with shack, has a 50/50 chance of spawning in the main building or in shack.
So looping on killer shack is very good but it's very risky if the basement is there, alot of survivor players dont keep that in mind and they believe they wont go down because it's shack.
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@Steah said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269199#Comment_1269199
Yes if multiple people come to a similar conclusion it's mob mentality
Coming to a similar conclusion on your own is one thing, but coming to a conclusion because of what other people think is mob mentality.
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@Akito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269692#Comment_1269692
You don't play killer that often right? That's okay but then you should try reading threads carefully. I won't give you exambles for reasons you go should go straight for the unhooked guy. When I play survivor and I get unhooked even when the Killer just found a new chase and in jured the survivor he just come back from the other side of the map to tunnel so don't ask me.
But even the fact that I mentioned that DS should be active for only 20 seconds is the prove that you are probably one of those "dare you wanna fix my cheesy trash perk". Because if I did not came back to the unhooked survivor this guy won't run at me the next 60 seconds because DS is still active. It's just active right after the unhook for a short amount of time to get out of the worst case.
So and if you made it out theres no reason to have DS active for a whole minute right? So that if I found you on my way I don't have to be worried to get DSed even if I didn't tunneled you off the hook.
So you are kinda right. Why should I get back and tunnel? Right. And why should you have DS still active even when I did not go back and tunnel you :)
20 second DS? That sounds like you wanna gut the perk.
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@Terro said:
I'd say it's about even in terms of toxicity. It might be a bit of bias on your end of you only notice one side.
- Coming from a mostly survivor player
you legit could've left that last part out but you've shown one of the points I've made, it's that name calling fallacy. in reality it is safe to say that toxicity on both sides is relatively equal, but I'm talking about on forums. The community is mostly made up of killer, so when a killer talks about survivors teabagging them all game, they get sympathy. But when survivor's complain about getting BM'ed for literally no reason, the mindset switches, people believe that killers will only do that if you did something to piss them off.
"pissing the killer off" includes but not limited to
- Teabagging the killer
- flashlight clicking
So far so good? Let's do some more
- completing a gen in the killer's face
- running a strong tile
Questionable yes? But wait there is more
- Using DS (for anti-tunnel purposes)
- Doing objectives
- using flashlights
- using strong items
- Being good at the game
Doing essentially anything as a survivor can piss the killer off so much ,it'll cost you your fun in that match. Killer toxicity has more weight than survivor toxicity. A toxic survivor can only t-bag and flashlight click you, which has no impact on the match. While as killer you can bodyblock people into areas (This is bannable I know, but you can still do it anyways), facecamp as bubba and deny that person from the game, tunnel at 5 gens, face camping and Bm'ng your swaying body because you destroyed a totem to prevent disaster on your team, etc.
Toxicity shouldn't be tolerated period, but according to the forums doing any of those things is fair play, but doing something as useless as teabagging and flashlight clicking is not.
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@Raven014 said:
Well, it happens toward both sides. I try to be moderate but even then I get called a killer main and ignored.
The main problem with your argument, and I'm just going to be honest about this, is that face camping isn't the same thing as DS. For one, they are treated very differently by the majority of people:
Facecamping: Often talked down as a good thing, as in, there are far more people who talk about this as a bad thing. Most people even describe as toxic. On top of that, It will not help you get wins. If you camp, survivors can easily get all gens done as well as trade, since they are free to do what they want. They also have perks to counter this: BT and DS.
DS: Encouraged, used, and forces one side to play in a particular way. Add to the fact there can be 4 of them in a single game, it makes it very unfortunate to go against. Sure, they have it once, but it can be very versatile and game changing. It can stop a killer snowball, punish them even if they left you alone... it is a really good perk. Too good for its effect.
The only reason I can think of those responses are because killers are the harder role to master. It requires planning, action, understanding and proper use of killer powers, and map knowledge. Survivor needs to know how to: loop structures (a bug that the devs ran with), hit skill checks, and... thats it? You have the easy role. And there are 4 of you at once...
I would love for the survivor vs. killer mentality to go away, but that is not going to happen for the moment... just because of how game balance is right now.
I was using that argument as an example, I didn't think people would come here and read my post to debate that lol.
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@Nurgling7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269408#Comment_1269408
So you would use Spirit Fury without Enduring? My point still stands.
people will choose what's better, enduring + Spirit Fury allows to have a complete disregard to survivors' defenses and DS + Unbreakable can only be used once, it's strong but can only be used once. All seconod chance perks for survivors have risky conditions and can only be used once. So my point stands too.
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@Nurgling7 said:
Why do people compare Spirit Fury+Enduring to DS+Unbreakable?
Enduring makes Spirit Fury actually work and do what it is supposed to.
Unbreakable is a counter to the Killer's counter of DS, still counters another strong tactic on it's own without any help from DS.
It's not even close.
because it allows you to be dumb? Enduring allows you to get back into chase a little faster, spirit fury makes it even better. DS + Unbreakable is a strong perk combo that can only work once.
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@afroboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269136#Comment_1269136
and if you think clown is good uninstall the game and you can easily go to the other side of the loop to not get shocked by the doc
and you put words into my mouth. I never said he was good, I just said he was essentially buffed. You're being passive aggressive for no reason at all.
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@evilwithinIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269360#Comment_1269360
So because i think there are more threads talking about noed, facecamping and tunneling it makes me bias? Ok
Im not saying you're not seeing things but I could go through pages of posts and only a handful out of all of them is problems witth tunneling, camping, tunnel mori, etc. where as majority of posts is complaints made towards survivor.
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@evilwithinIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269309#Comment_1269309
So basically you complain about how Killers act on the forum but you ALSO tell Them how to play the game.
I am sorry but let Killers play how they like. I also let survivor play how they like to play.
And thinking "a lot of post are killer bias" is Just some excuses, because how many threads i see about noed, camping and tunneling are way more then threads about DS.
who tf said i told anyone how to play? and you proved my point of people not being viewed as individuals. You say it like im anti-killer when i made it clear that I'm not. not all but most posts about perks are killers complaining about the meta perks for survivor, complaining about the perks working. Some of these posts i see are people complaining about Adrenaline (even tho it's an endgame perk and rewards for survivors going against all odds and surviving until the end). Posts about Dead Hard, when you lit's so easy to bait, DS when you can just get rid of it early, that way you can avoid the stun, and BT which is meant to counter the camp/tunnel playstyle.
I never said killers should play a certain way. I'm saying that if you are going to camp, tunnel, and be toxic, it doesn't make you cool, it makes you a jerk. Besides if you camp someone till the very end you can still get a decent amount of BP while at the same time denying the person who spent 20 dollars on the damn game no gameplay, and no fun. Remember you are playing with other human beings, not bots.
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doesn't look that way on these forums though.
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@Huff said:
It's because you have to look at each of those individual arguments. When you say "stop complaining about facecamping," it makes sense because the developers have held the stance for the longest time that it's okay to do it. It's not encouraged, but it's OK.
As for the Dead Hard one, I don't think I can say I know what you're talking about. I see DH brought up when it comes to 2nd chance perks, but I don't see nearly as many hate threads dedicated to it as I do about camping, tunneling, DS, mori, etc.
And then for the "DS is balanced" I can assure you the reason people give you the "found the survivor main" comments, is because it's just simply incorrect. Anybody who plays killer and has gone against a team with multiple DS and minimally competent survivors will tell you this.
And I also don't know what you mean in reference to the responses killer based threads vs survivor based threads get. I mean, this thread itself sounds biased toward survivors, so it would make sense why you think that, but practically every thread I look at, there's a handful of people trying to make actual points for or against something, and then most of the other people are just flaming each other having a "survivor vs killer main" war.
In general, I think you just have to look at individual cases. Some complaints are stupid, like facecamping in my opinion, because the devs have said it's fine for a long time. Others, like the DS complaints, I actually see some validity in for various reasons. If you want to see what I feel about it, feel free to look through my comments and you'll probably find something about it, but I'm not going to go in depth on that. Point is, some people come on here and make downright unhelpful complaints. That's why most of the people probably didn't have a problem with you posting about "stop complaining about facecamping." It's not because it's a "survivor topic" or "killer topic" or anything.
When i said "Stop complaining about facecamping" and "stop complaining about Dead Hard" It was just a point i was trying to make about when a topic is about survivors or killers and the responses which are received.
Your opinion about DS is kind of the point im trying to get across. DS is annoying yes, but going agaisnt freddy, spirit, and nurse every game isn't fun either, but we both have to deal. If I were to talk about Spirit being really unfair to go against in chases, more comments would disagree with me, usually they'd be spirit mains. DS has been changed alot and I dont want it to be changed again, I dont even get to use DS alot but that's besides the point.
And yes this thread is suppose to be bias because lots of threads are killer bias. This is proving my point about which biases people pick up more. A killer could post something that is entering "What kind of rank 20 complain is this?" territory and they'd get more respectful comments then a survivor who talks about getting Bm'ed and face camped on hook.
I also feel like just because the devs say its ok doesn't mean you should do it. The Devs have stated that DS isn't technically an "anti-tunnel" perk so using it as an anti tunnel or using it offensively shouldn't be getting this many complaints then, because it's ok. (Not trying to be rude or anything, sorry if I do Q_Q). People don't look at others as individuals on these forums. So many Toxic SWFs are posted on youtube and all over that killers percieve SWFs to be toxic.
Just to add on, because not many killers don't understand why survivors get upset about facecamping here is why. You're playing a multiplayer game with other human beings, nobody really cares pfft, I don't care if you camp me during Endgame. We get pissed because killers do it early game and you end up dying with little to no points, You're just watching yourself slowly die for 2 minutes with no hope of saviour until you die. And if you get BT saved, then the argument of BT being dumb af becomes more prominent.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
Inb4 "your obviously a toxic survivor main who has never played killer". Jokes aside get ready for people calling you a survivor main
To be expected honestly, I don't even know why I put my energy into posting this.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
✓ States that he/she is a killer main with 6k hours
✓ Complains about people complaining about DS
Makes sense to me
so because he doesn't have the mob mentality of 90% of the killer mains on here, is your evidence that his stats aren't true? lol ok. There is doubt of course yes, but that is not evidence lol.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/151399/stop-blaming-ds-for-lack-of-strategy
Sorry but I don't believe you. If you truly have 6k hours in the game then you would know how problematic and abusable DS is. Pretty much everyone has a problem with DS. Ask people like Noob3, Monto, Tru3, Otz, and so on, most will say DS needs changes.
so because a few high profile dbd streamers said they don't like the perk you believed the perk wasn't fair too? Stop the mob mentality, play the game and make up your own opinion.
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Athleticism: Your strong physique gives you an edge in chases. You pull down pallets 10/15/20% faster and pallet stuns last 10/20/30% longer
"Don't worry guys, I'll knock this motherf*cker out with one hit"
Persistence: If life on the outside has taught you anything, it's to persevere. When on the hook you last 10/20/30% longer on the hook, if the killer is within 12/14/16 meters, the entity's sacrifice progess will further slow down by 3/6/9%
"I can do this all day!"
Endorphin Rush: When it's time to go, it's time to go! When hit by the killer your acceleration boost duration is increased by .3/.6/1 second
"Catch me if you can!"
This survivor is best suited for getting chased by the killer, and to waste as much time for the killer as possible
(This was really fun to do ^-^)
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@afroboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1267120#Comment_1267120
LOL never have i ever said it was braindead stop putting words in my mouth firstly i was talking about that guy's point of how its a good play now tell me if you have lets see a survivor with ds and unbreakable youll have to ignore them for 60 SECONDS 60 seconds you see and if you slug theyll get back up and you brought up the build spirit fury and enduring firstly they mostly will have dead hard so yeah and secondly you can drop pallets early af and never get hit and 2 perks are useless and killers open lockers cause some survivors fake having ds yes it happens and if you get a good survivor and they ds you they might make the chase take from 20 seconds to 4 minutes this perk is much better than back then back then youll have to hook the other people fast and maybe get dsed by the the obssesion and now no worries but no all 4 survivors can have it and still ds you which is a 5 seconds stun and maybe 3-5 seconds to catch up theyll probably run to a pallet and loop you there for 12-19 seconds and you wasted a lot of time do you get my point? if you make an amazing play as a killer you get outplayed by a perk not skill a perk do you still not understand how many mistakes survivors can get away with and if they have dead hard adreanlaine or unbreakable what can you do killer as no such perks like these maybe gen stopping perks but they dont help in chases
Well I never said you said it was braindead, I was trying to say how you implied that it was braindead. Also DS + Unbreakable is strong but only once. If they unbreakable they will no longer have it but they'll have DS, and if they got to unbreakable then their DS is practically useless. If they DS you because you forgot you hooked them within 60 seconds or something, all they have is unbreakable, which will be rendered useless as there is no reason to be slugged if you have no DS or if the killer is trying to get a 4k near the end of the game or just being a dick.
I still don't understand why people think dead hard is op, just assume they have it and bait the dead hard and get the hit, it's not hard. If they are dead harding to pallets maybe hit them before they get into range of the pallet? Also killers like clown and Doc which force you to drop pallets early are essentially stronger now since the pallet desert update. Survivors have to conserve and try not to greed pallets before having to finally drop them, It's kind of a dumb update when you have a 2 perk combo that allows you to ignore pallets and get an eventual hit and killers like clown and doc exist, forcing you to drop all 5 pallets in the map during a chase. So if running Enduring and Spirit fury isnt worth, DS + Unbreakable isn't either. There aren't many matches where everyone gets slugged, so Unbreakable isn't worth running, however it is very impactful when the perk works, and you can recover your team. Enduring + Spirit fury is hold W and you get a free hit/down, atleast with DS you have to land a skill check. That combo is pure aids in chase, they both help you with chases so idk why you think killers dont have perks to help them in chase like survivors do.
You say that DS was better to deal with back then, but it got reworked cause generally killers thought it was op, which it was. Now DS is balanced and people want the perk to be unpopular and tunneling will become popular and killers will turn the other cheek. And what decent killer opens a locker when the unhooked person went in there? LOL, while there is a chance, why take the risk when you know that player has DS and you're 99% sure? Keep mental notes of who you hooked so you don't have to worry about it, or like i said, GET RID OF IT EARLY.
And for the record most killer mains want all of the survivor meta perks to be gutted. Adrenaline is an end-game perk, so if the survivors make it to endgame they deserve the huge reward that Adrenaline gives you, Devour Hope rewards you for not playing like a dick so it's fair. BT is balanced, just dont hit the unhooked person and go for the unhooker, sometimes hook diving is necessary, just because a survivor does it when it's not needed doesnt make them toxic, it becomes a 1 for 1 which usually isn't worth, unless it's a facecamper. Dead Hard, doesn't even work half the time because dedi servers, just wait it out or hit them before they get near a pallet.
DS is fine where it is, as much as I don't like Tru3, sometimes in his gameplay he will eat DS early so he doesn't have to deal with it endgame, maybe killers should start doing that so it doesn't ######### them over late game.
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@afroboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263819#Comment_1263819
so going in a locker and dsing the killer is good play or a stun? you know you can stun by pressing space wow so cool such good plays
Im pretty sure you're aware of the enduring + spirit fury combo, the combo that allows you to play loops like you have negative IQ. DS is balanced, the perk just costs you more near endgame so get rid of it early.
And if you cant keep track of who you recently hooked, getting DS'd is entirely your fault. If you know the survivor has DS, why are you opening the locker? Just leave and pressure someone else.
And since you are implying getting a good stun with a pallet is so braindead, killers that mindgame and get hits using their WASD keys and mouse are pretty braindead too. If you get hit by any stun in this game it was most likely your fault.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263819#Comment_1263819
Let enduring only affect DS then? And keep head on stun time the same? Because right now enduring doesn't do anything to head on so it wouldn't be too hard to keep it the exception would it? Getting distance from a pallet from a killer who's using enduring only works if you don't make them break the pallet. I see a LOT of survivors stun the killer then make a beeline straight away from the pallet because they always assume the killer will instantly break it, leading to some of the easiest downs.
Enduring shouldn't affect DS. When enduring countered DS you could down a survivor before they landed on the ground.
DS is fine where it is, just slug them or eat it early. DS becomes more powerful as the game continues so just get rid of it early.
All Enduring is going to do is encourage people to tunnel someone to death at 5 gens because they dont have to respect DS anymore.
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you know what you're right. lemme just dodge a point blank asteroid sized hatchet. Now that we're talking about OP stuff let's talk about DS, why can't killers just adapt lol.
don't hook
and dont down people
it's simple as that :D. Like just dodge the skill check lmao.
iri head is busted dude, billy moves between 5-9m/s when chainsawing (can't remember base billy speed). Hatchets travael 40 m/s. Hatchets are considerably harder to dodge because 1. You're gonna get dedicated and 2. it's point blank and travels 40 m/s. The thing with billy is that the longer you keep feathering the more distance the survivor gets, so it's a now or never deal with him. As huntress you are slowed down more but hatchets are the sizes of asteroids.
point is billy moves slower than her hatchets so of course it's easier to dodge.
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you're saying you want enduring to make all stuns less rewarding for the survivors good play? Still at the end of the day if you get unhooked, the killer shouldn't tunnel you and if they do, they get DS'd simple.
Bringing back enduring will make tunneling so much easier, head on would be useless, and pallet stuns would grant you even less distance from the killer.
I don't understand why people don't just eat DS early or just slug and put pressure elsewhere, it's not that hard lol.
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Shelter woods has accomplished this already, but this patch has made killer very easy, almost too easy. They honestly should've added more pallets but make them semi-safe so when the pallet is downed, the killer can still play it. I'm not enjoying this patch as survivor at all because whenever I get chased there is no pallet to be found. I'm glad they removed god loops, but this change was too much.
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It's honestly so baffling that someone really believes toxicity doesn't exist within their faction. slugging someone to purposely let them bleed out is toxic, facecamping is toxic af when it's early game, repeatedly hitting someone on hook is toxic, bodyblocking a survivor into a corner and not downing them is toxic and reportable.
Notice how all the toxic things a killer is capable of doing has a direct impact on the match, survivors being toxic has no direct impact on your game as killer, I'm not endorsing survivors being toxic but killers being toxic harms the game way more than someone repeatedly pressing ctrl and M2.
Tunneling and camping is scummy in the early stages of the game, but when it's late game idc. Killers killing survivors isnt toxic, like no survivor has ever said killers killing is toxic, it's just nobody likes dealing with killers who can't keep their seething hatred and rage from their last match in check and they take it out on innocent players. Gen rushing honestly is not even toxic, with this new patch I do gens like my life depends on it (that's because my life does depend on it) because of how quickly chases end because of the massive deadzones on maps.
This is the most biased and ignorant post I've ever read. If anyone thinks his claim, "Killers can't be toxic" is debatable you are very much mistaken. It's a multiplayer game, all players have the capability to "play for salt", your claim is objectively wrong.
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@Joelwino said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1233394#Comment_1233394
Ok, I'm going to change what I said and say that a survivor should never win a chase against a good killer. It just so happens that there are some pretty unbeatable areas for even the best killers.
Patience is one of the most important things to learn in this game, could be the difference between life and death for the survivor and winning and losing for the killer. If the survivor know what they're doing they arent gonna get caught, so your best bet is to just leave and pressure other areas. However, I do agree that god loops are unhealthy for the game as any survivor can run them and takes no skill whatsoever.
Chases just come down to who is just better skilled and can read the other better. Its up to the killer if they wanna keep chasing and risk losing gens or leave that survivor in the game to give you a headache later.
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@Joelwino said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1211042#Comment_1211042
Chases aren’t a battle. You’re not supposed to win a chase. The purpose of a chase is to stall the killer while your teammates complete generators. You have to accept that you should never win a chase and that at the end of the chase you will be hooked. Good players will just be able to stall the killer for a longer amount of time, giving their teammates more time to complete generators.
So what are you saying? The chased survivor should get pinned down by the entity after being chased for 2 minutes? Chases are a battle, survivors must fight for their lives every trial and you wanna make chases unfun? At this point take away the exit gates and hatch cause the survivors shouldn't win right? Survivors should be allowed to win chases, the meta has changed it's not hide and seek anymore. Plus with future map changes chases will be more bearable for killers and removal of bloodlust will make chases a 50/50 win opportunity for both sides.
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@Joelwino said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1211042#Comment_1211042
Chases aren’t a battle. You’re not supposed to win a chase. The purpose of a chase is to stall the killer while your teammates complete generators. You have to accept that you should never win a chase and that at the end of the chase you will be hooked. Good players will just be able to stall the killer for a longer amount of time, giving their teammates more time to complete generators.
and by proxy survivors aren't suppose to win at all?
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@MrDardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/502888#Comment_502888
What in any way should be op on this Perk. It's only the basement which is dangerous. And going down near the basement is the Survivors fault in the first place. People are just afraid to make perks proper strong and viable
Exactly, the basement is a very dangerous place to be hooked in the first place that's why his idea is OP. His idea encourages camping because now survivors have to hook bomb the person before they die cause they'll have 45 seconds instead of 2. It'll encourage camping and you wont get punished for it cause they die so quick. Nobody is against weak perks being decent, everyone's against perks being OP.
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All DbD players bought the game and have the right to complain, whether you'd like to hear it or not. Both sides have aspects which some players may find distasteful.
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I'm a survivor main and I don't like NoeD either, that's why I bring small game and watch the Wraith who didn't do good all game get bamboozled as to why his instadown didn't work :)
Honestly just bring Small Game it's really nice, but if I were to have an idea for NoeD I'd make it not a Hex perk and just make it last for 2 minutes then it's gone. Haunted Grounds on steroids. However it's revealed to all Survivors as soon as the gates are powered.
Like I said I don't mind NoeD now, it's just an idea I came up with.
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Honestly I personally don't mind it, totems don't take long to cleanse unless they're running Thrill Of The Hunt. If they are just hanging around the totem that's a waste of time on the killer's part.
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if someone leaves the game or hook suicides everyone else except the killer gets a BP boost. The only reason i dont think the killer should get it is because they get way more BP as is. I just think it'll make the match less stressful knowing that it's still worth the bloodpoints.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1211042#Comment_1211042
A big issue for gameplay comes doen to the killer shouldnt be penalized for chasing, because thats the main interaction between survivors and killers. Problem is is that while a survivor only has to worry about being hooked, the killer has to worry about 3 other survivors. It punishes the killer for interacting with survivors for too long
To be honest, if the killer decides to chase a survivor for an extended period of time and they aren't planning to drop chase despite gens popping, they deserve to lose. As a Survivor, winning chases is really good for your team as you wasted the killer's time and got gen progress. However, losing chases will require a teammate to stop doing gens and come get you and heal you, this applies pressure and slows the game down. I understand that killer can be stressful when played against good teams, but we need to differentiate skill and broken mechanics. Killers shouldn't be getting even more help chasing survivors when bloodlust exists, neither should they get help when they can drop chase and go monitor gens and chase, down, and hook players who are doing gens in deadzones or aren't good at looping.
Nothing is wrong with engaging in long chases, but as a killer if you see that the survivor you're chasing is good at the game and you haven't gotten a hit in the past 5+ mins you were chasing them, you're doing something wrong, survivors should not be punished for that.
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honestly people do it because they're in an unfun match and i mean iri head, infantry belt, NoeD, ebony mori unfun. I completely understand if you do it because the killer is intentionally trying to make your experience miserable or you just aren't enjoying the match. However it does hurt other players and for that I think the remaining players should recieve a 2x Bp bonus to all actions so the game is still worth playing.
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@Dehitay said:
Can we make it to where every time a survivor gets hooked for the first time, they get a 20 second timer going and if they reach the sacrifice state before that timer finishes they get a negative bloodpoint action like say -25,000 bloodpoints which gets subtracted from your account's bloodpoint pool if you didn't make more than that in the match? I can't think of any valid reason that a survivor would reach the sacrifice state from first hook in 20 seconds unless they blew through unhook chances to race to the 2nd state and just refused to struggle to race to the sacrifice state.
well yes and no. Sometimes if a survivor kills themself due to the killer playing like a jerk and BM'ing for no reason so that's fine in my book. Sometimes Survivors will do that because they got mad cause of a dedicated hit, understandable frustration but it's not ok to hook suicide. This change would be nice for trolls but bad for new players. Many new players don't realize attempting escape speeds up their sacrifice progress, then all of a sudden they have to mash space but then they're too late, then they die. I dont think much can be done but give everyone in the match 2x bp for all their actions. In the event of a DC it would be nice to remove a gen based on how many survivors dc'ed, and also give 2x bp for all actions. That way it's like the game has been sped up, so it wont feel like a disadvantage from the beginning due to lack of players, it'll be like starting in endgame when a few of your fellow teammates have died.
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@Joelwino said:
No one should be able to run the killer around for minutes. Just because No0b3 or Ussylis can doesn't mean it's an intended feature. Killers should be able to down a survivor after a bit even if they make no mistakes. Gens go by too fast for the killers to afford going on 2+ minute chases.
Imma have to disagree with you there. If the game was balanced around what you just said, you'll be screwed as a survivor if you are found because you will never win chases. That would render survivor unplayable since your own skill wont be able to save you at all due to getting bloodlusted and a mechanic that is just made so survivors never win chases. Besides, if you're the killer and you've chased someone for 2+ minutes, you've thrown several gens and possibly the game because you couldn't keep your tunnel vision in check.