C3Tooth
C3Tooth
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3445325#Comment_3445325
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
This thread is about tunneling. Survivors do not like to be tunneled. If you spend 30 seconds browsing this forum that will become obvious. I'm saying that tunneling should not be possible and should be removed from the game because it is boring for the survivors to be tunneled, and camped for that matter. And the game should be balanced around winning being about getting lots of hooks, not getting lots of kills, because then the game would be more fun for everyone involved.
Survivors dont want to be tunneled because its not fun. On the other hand, survivors are also deserved to have 40% escape chance.
Not getting tunneled doesnt mean killers should get 4K every single match in return.
To your ideal, you want to 10 hooks, but still 4K, than 4 hooks 4K. Is that correct? You want the 4K.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444462#Comment_3444462
There never was any reward for spreading hooks. You yourself clame that the game becomes killersided once one Survivor is out, so what system was were that made the game killersided if they spread hooks?
You're matched with less tryhard/skill survivors and havee less stress matches. Thats certainly more reward than the BP.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444976#Comment_3444976
This thread is about tunneling, survivors generally don't like that. So what i'm saying is, the devs should make it so that killers are encouraged to spread pressure around, meaning they don't have to tunnel someone out to win. Simultaneously, tunneling should be nerfed even further than it is now. Thus making it so these killers can be rewarded for spreading pressure, and punished for tunneling. Then the survivors will have a better time.
The problem with this game is that the most effective way for killers to win, is also the most boring to play against. Similarly, the most effective way for survivors to win, is also the most boring for killers to play against. I'm saying the game should not encourage the most boring way to play the game in order to win, and we should instead be encouraging both sides to play in more fun and interesting ways that will also lead to winning.
meaning they don't have to tunnel someone out to win.
So its about the game should be easier for 4K?
If you're a decent killer, you should only win against a team that worse than you, or a decent team like you but try less hard. If the decent team try as hard as you, they're deserved to have 2 escape.
People keep saying "try to 4K against a good team". Come on, a good team with 0 escape sound more wrong than a good killer with 2K.
The only thing I can think of is to give tunneling no benefit. No matter if you 8 hooks before kill or tunneling one out early, the chance to get kills dont change. Which is 4 survivors should be heavily nerfed, while 3 survivors heavily buffed. Aim for 8 hooks before kill to keep debuff on survivors.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444708#Comment_3444708
The kill rate the devs are balancing for is around 60%. Anything around that kill rate would be considered balanced and I imagine the devs are looking at a range of values rather than a static 60%. Something like 58%-62% range.
Which would mean anything below that is survivor sided and anything above that is killer sided.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444761#Comment_3444761
I said that if ALL maps had a 60% Kill Rate, all maps would be balanced. All means ALL. Not only ones currently below 60%.
I heard that RNG gives you maps with the least win if you get constantly winning. Forcing to lose.
There is no way you can make all maps that give Trapper equally 60% kill rate, as well as giving Blight 60%.
Everything are just generis numbers. Accept there are maps that killer sided, and maps that survivor sided
@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444761#Comment_3444761
16 maps with 70%? damn didn't know that. You gotta link. I legit wanna check out what maps
Because if
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444649#Comment_3444649
if you aren't playing nurse or blight, you HAVE to get a survivor out of the game as fast as possible or you are going to lose against any decent survivor team. That is just the reality of the current state of the game.
So its just about not losing, which is...getting kill?
The reward for getting kill is the feeling of winning? Then why would you like the game to make hooks give you the feeling to win (reward)?
I mean, you can either 4hooks 4K or 12hooks 4K, as long as it 4K, hooks dont matter.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444708#Comment_3444708
Might be a killer map at 90% killrate. But it's still a survivor map cause SWF doesn't care(sarcasm my friend).
I would like to know, because if
- there are 16 maps have 70% kill rate
- and 25 maps have 55% kill rate.
The average kill rate to all map would be 60%. Except the number of 55% kill rate for those 25 maps is certainly not survivor sided number.
If those 25 maps pushed up to 60% kill rate. Which mean the average kill rate to all map would be more than 60%. As @Ayodam was trying to explain.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443496#Comment_3443496
There's 41 maps in the game. Here's the aggregate calculation if all maps have 60% kill rate.
60% x 41 = 2460%
100% 41 = 4100% (as the highest total)
2460 / 4100 = 60%
Would you look at that, if every map had 60% kill rate the total kill rate is 60%.
You're really just trying to reach to call an otherwise balanced map killer sided when the issue is that most maps simply favor the survivor.
How many % kill rate is called a survivor map?
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443836#Comment_3443836
So give incentives to killers, by rebuffing a perk that makes it so every survivor runs it, recreating the meta they tried to get away from?
How about, give incentives to killers by balancing the game around hooks instead of kills and rewarding hooks.
What reward do you get from getting more kill? Please tell.
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@Ghoste said:
I'm still annoyed that we have 5 versions of Badham. None of them are different enough to warrant their existence.
Each of them have only chance of 3, each of Macmillan map has chance of 10. It better to have many variation of Badham. Im sure no one wants when you get into Badham, its guarantee a single version like Garden of Joy, Eyrie or Saloon.
Doesnt change the fact its a pain, but at least its not boring by having 1 map.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443903#Comment_3443903
Yeah I don't buy it either. I've literally never BM'd once in this game, not even a single tbag, despite having had plenty of bad matches. I don't get this apparent 'I'm gonna take my frustration out on the next lot' stuff. As soon as the game is over I've moved on.
1 player BM on you does feel bad, it nothing in this game can be compared to a toxic squad of 4 players BM on you.
First time I played against a toxic squad, I was no more play 8 hooks and let people escape, I played more dirty and most of the time I put it on later team.
It was like a year before I had to rethink about it, and tried to understand that later team has nothing to do with previous toxic squad, or even a single toxic survivor has nothing to do with other 3.
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I wish we could create 50 builds for bots, and let them randomly pick one of them.
You can give strong build for them now, but it’s predictable.
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Just 8 hooks and dont kill anyone. If you try harder, the game would become more stress. I mean, you can try hard to get hook but dont kill, its also work
Ignore BM, its the root for Killers trying so hard and lead to MMR they should not be.
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@Sylhiri said:
So what would you replace them with?
BNP add a check point to a Gen, which that Gen can not regress further than the check point. Which useless early game but really important in late game. Especially if there are only 3 survivors left.
Syringe is already got a nerf to 24sec.
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Doctor was in mid chase with injured Feng then decided to chase me instead.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Personally I think we have enough maps. Especially with the feature that you cannot get on the same Map twice in a row, you will have a good variety of Maps to play on so that every play-session feels different.
Also, if they would add more Maps to older Realms, this would mean no new Realms will be created. So Killers will come without their own Map. And the last time this happened (with Blight, Twins and Trickster), players were not happy either and wanted Maps for all of them.
I dont think they consider Groan store house and Coal tower are the same map. You're not going to get Coal tower again if you played it previous match, but you still have a chance to get to Store house.
The land mark is the main building, Crotus is mostly brick clutter, it can go with anything for Twins and Trickster (a small trailer area like Clown but with Neon lights). Or Red forest for Blight as the main building is a Green house.
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Yes! Too many realms with only 1 map now. I really thought they could give Blight & Twin, Trickster a new map for Crotus and Red forest, Swamp.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Thing is, this isn't an issue with the facecamping measure. It's an issue with how the tunnelling measures doesn't really do anything at all versus the actual problematic tunnellers.
Though I really don't know how to handle a killer like Nurse in particular, since she really does just shrug off a DS, even if it was a 5-second stun.
Taking a DS reset power bar? Honestly it hurts Doctor the most, but Nurse is still almost nothing. The only fair part is Blight/Spirit.
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Thana should be 8% 10% 12% 13% or so. I dont know why they keep the equal multiplying for each survivor. 2% for 1 injured is too weak, but 20% is too much on Plague and Legion.
For Dying Light, I think that if you hit Obsession, other 3 survivors get 15% debuff for 30sec. With a reasonable cool down. So the perk still have the idea of keeping Obsession alive as other 2 Myers' perks
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I draw digital for too long, when I can flip canvas, I can only draw faces that look to left side. Example, Meg is looking to the right side, but when I draw, I flip the canvas when drawing Meg's face
For drawing practice, this one carries it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T_-DiAzYBc
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You can check here for more info: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586278676-How-to-report-a-player
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@Xernoton said:
The more efficient one side plays, the faster they can potentially end matches and outpace their opponents. This forces them respectively to play faster and more efficient themselves, which forces their next opponent to do the same thing. It's a cycle of trying to win matches faster than the other side, which now got worse because survivors adjusted from spam healing to rushing gens to compete with killers and killers now need to tunnel and camp even more to not get outpaced.
Further survivor nerfs are not going to do much here and nerfing killers isn't going to solve that issue either because now that players got accustomed to this play style they won't change it as long as it keeps winning them games. What needs to be done is tackling both issues at the same time. Camping and tunneling need to be addressed while simultaneously limitting gen rushing. Otherwise we make one side toy for the other.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440077#Comment_3440077
You can say the same abou the killer. And they won't be super happy getting teabagged after the survivors obliterated them either. The truth is that most players either don't care about their opponent's feelings or want them to feel bad about themself. The amount of players that maintain a more positive approach is small to say the least.
well the question was about whats the difference between tunneling survivors and tunneling Gen.
A completed Gen doesnt stop killer from playing. A dead survivor does stop a player from playing.
I dont defend on survivors’BM behaviour
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3441294#Comment_3441294
Killers literally spent the strongest meta we've seen in years reinforcing 'do gens or die'' to survivors and are suddenly *shocked Pikachu face* that survivors don't just screw around opening chests anymore.
The nerfs on items make it really worthless to spend time to run to a chest (assume you already know where it is), 10sec to open for a medkit, 24sec for self healing. Then go back to a Gen. The time it takes is x4 to running to a Gen, see a teammate and get healed in 16sec.
Medkit charges needed a nerf yes, but I think items that survivors bring in should be spawn another chest for them to search.
Bring in a medkit means an extra medkit + not spending time to find it in a chest. The pros for bringing a single medkit is too much.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440077#Comment_3440077
Looking at some threads here in the forums they must be soulless monsters (including me)
Only monsters want crop top Feng
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I wish I could use my other 3 perks for Gen slowdown. And not being force to use Thana only.
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@Carth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440623#Comment_3440623
My point is the idea that "buff x and players will stop doing y" is flawed. It's the exact same argument as "killers will stop tunneling and camping if gen regression is buffed". If you do not remove the tool from the toolbox or alter it heavily players will continue to use it.
Average survivors usually face against worse killer and win, then against better killer and lose. Keep them consistence death/escape. Better survivors have the same thing, except playing against better killers and thats it.
Great killers play against great teams should have 60% kill rate. Its only average killers only want 4K, no matter how much the buff an average killers get. Lets say increase Gen time to 150sec, that buff would push average killers to play against great survivors like Zubat and Ayrun, struggle to get a hook and still make complaining.
This is the whole point of killers' complain in general. The complaining only stop once they understand the concept, not the buffs they received.
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@Shroompy said:
I cant even see how far youre reaching, I just know its far
EDIT: found a visual representation
Looks like Freddy's lung attack
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@Pluto_1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440247#Comment_3440247
Tell that to the survivors who do nothing but hang around and blind killers. I play this game for my entertainment. It's not even a little bit up to me to ensure that you have a fun match. The fact is, I don't care if you have fun or not. Unless you're a friend then you're nothing more than a bot to me.
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@Adaez said:
The players wouldn't be as toxic if the game was balanced and would not create the toxic scenarios in the first place.
Not really, a survivor can be hit on hook until death even without doing anything. A killer can still get BM (tbag, fast vault) even if play fair.
Its in the person who play the game decide to toxic or not.
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@Firellius said:
Survivor gameplay consists of doing gens, performing altruistic actions, and doing chases.
Camping removes all three from the person being camped, and two-thirds from the other survivors, while also completely stopping killer gameplay.
Tunnelling removes two-thirds from all survivors, as three are left only doing gens, and one is left only doing chases.
In short, both methods completely annihilate the core concepts of the game.
Yes, killer’s gameplay is a circle of “find survivor-chase-kick gen/pallet-hook” and repeat. Gens being done fast makes them do the circle lesser times. As well as tunneling makes them repeating more times.
Tunneling and Camping affect survivors gameplay categories.
Tunneling leave nothing but chase.
Camping leave nothing at all.
While both of those makes leave other survivors nothing but Gen.
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@mustdogen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440047#Comment_3440047
So.... what is the difference between tunnel gen and survivor?
If you turn the word tunnel survivor in to tunnel gen in your post,it still makes sense.
And about the carrot and srick part, didn't the truth that we have more tunnel and camping now than 6.1.0 prove that stick didn't work at all?
Unless you said that the nerfs between now and 6.1.0 are carrot.
Gens dont have feeling, survivors do.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3440009#Comment_3440009
If you have someone say at 75% stalk and hit them they become injured but you lose the stalk progress you had on them. So if you lose the chase and they go off and heal you have to start the stalk progress over. This can happen often because he's an m1 killer and his power goes on cooldown so sometimes you can't top off the stalk quick on the survivor so you have to hit them or waste time just leaving them and going after someone else.
So its only reset if you hit them? Means if others are 99 and not hitting them, the progression still stay?
Thats more reasonable.
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When you start chase, stalk progression all reset? I thought he can 99 for next chase.
Right, Pyramid can range M2 into Mori, no need to deal with flashlight, DS. Its weird.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439247#Comment_3439247
Not the case for any other game, and mmr hardly does anything so you have nothing to worry about.
Strange, I dont try hard and most of the time matched with survivors who dont try hard.
If MMR doesnt work, then my survivors would be similar to theirs. Then why do they struggle and I dont? Im not even a good player
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Is this charm code still available? This charm should not be time limited.
We all need to equip this as memorial.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3439035#Comment_3439035
High level tbh, all games that have good balance do so around the most skilled part of the playerbase.
Balanced around Blight with 1000 wins and SupaAlf Nurse...it will be painful for average killers like us.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/377020/nurse
Sorry, but git gud.
Im pretty sure killers dont want survivors to get better. The moment survivors "know what they're doing"...we know what happens after.
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@Bartlaus said:
Who is the 1% who cannot?
One third the Trapper.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438815#Comment_3438815
What failsafe stops sweaty players from entering casual lobbies? I can think of at least two active players in this forum (not this specific thread) who would abuse the hell out of this. And they’re not alone.
Casually getting 4K. Not compete for 4K.
MMR currently is litterally match casual players against casual players, for most of time.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438036#Comment_3438036
I think some people have this attitude, yes. Especially people who don’t play killer. They forget that there is a person behind the killer who is also playing to right and has just as much right to do so as the survivors.
I think this really all comes down to the fact that many survivor main players don’t believe that anything they do in the game to gain an advantage like communicate on comms or abuse broken loops are unfun or unfair, while killer strategies like camping and tunneling are unfun and unfair. So far I have not seen any convincing arguments why it’s ok for survivors to use every possible edge to win but it’s not ok for killers to do the same.
Its okay to tunneling and camping. You're free to try hard to win.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438486#Comment_3438486
No I'm saying play fair.
Its impossible for people to distinguish between playing fair and play to lose intentional.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436249#Comment_3436249
DBD the only game where someone says "don't play to win." So you're supposed to play to lose right? That's a lot of fun.
@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3438036#Comment_3438036
What is so hard to understand what I said you're playing for kills you're playing to win YOU SHOULD GO Against OTHERS THAT ARE PLAYING TO WIN!
"But if that's how you want to play by all means go right ahead"
If you don't want to play against others that are playing to win STOP CAMPING AND TUNNELING it's not that hard to understand.
I know its hard to understand.
But if you and survivors have equal skill. Except you try hard and survivors dont, you should win. Because survivors didnt try to win.
Then your MMR is increased and play either against:
- TeamA: greater than you but dont try hard.
- TeamB: equal to your skill and equal to your try hard (so they are just like you, not great but try hard to win)
You actually have better chance against teamA. It harder to down them, but quad slowdown and tunneling will carry you when teamA use meme build. Against teamB will give you a harder time.
If you play against teamA (whos better but not try hard) and win the match. You may play against a team that as good as A, but TRY HARD.
There is no way you can win against a team that try as hard as you but better than you. This is when you struggle to get a hook, fall apart, frustrated.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437915#Comment_3437915
because it makes them look smoking
This is the only skin David needs, thats why they dont make more skin for him.
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A brown toolbox save 5second. If the perk only save you an extra 5sec. Its a really bad perk.
Commodious with double charges, however.
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437147#Comment_3437147
You get that my first comment there was in response to someone saying the second comment except about killers right? Killers are constantly told “don’t camp and tunnel, stop trying so hard so your mmr will drop”
I don’t seriously believe the second comment, I was just being facetious. But that’s the exact sentiment being expressed towards killers over and over and over and it’s a little frustrating that the same never applies to survivors. It’s a double standard and it bums me out.
People who suggest killers to not try so hard to win are people who play both side.
No one here telling you that you have to let survivors escape on purpose. They suggest you to not try so hard for 4K then reach to MMR where you should not be.
Whatever MMR youre in. You will get only 60% killrate average as Devs intent. Your and my MMR may be difference. Only for my games survivors dont try hard and usually meme around. There is also no reason to try hard against them.
Survivors have equal right to have escape chance just as killers have chance to get kills
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3437147#Comment_3437147
I see, another reason why I say kills/escapes should not be the answer to MMR all it does is increase their ego and make them think their good and better then you when their really not.
I prefer it that way. You play only for kill, matched against survivors play only for escape. Perfect pair.
MMR count on hook only make camping 2 hooks for 2 kills play against more newbie where they can 4 hooks 4 kills. And again, drop MMR. I dont like that I care for other side's fun, play for 8 hooks before kill and matched against Ayrun and other great streamers.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436355#Comment_3436355
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3436579#Comment_3436579
You don't need to camp and tunnel to win.
Camping for the kills is increasing your MMR giving (OP) harder matches.
If your playing like that you should get harder teams that are also playing to win. Why should you get weak teams to play against?
Again you don't need to camp and tunnel to get kills if you have to then you don't belong in that area of MMR.
This is from 1 person, in the same topic.
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1 thing I know about playing as Killers:
Given equal skill, which side try harder win the match. Its simple to understand that you may beat so many equal skill teams, and even better skill one because you try far harder. Only MMR can humble you by matching you against teams that have skill far superior to you that even the hardest try, you dont have a chance to win.
My way to play is aim for 8 hooks before kill. Weaker teams would lose to me anyway. Until MMR put my at correct place, 8 hooks before kill still give me roughly 2-3 kills every match.
Know my place that I should not be at high MMR. And I have fun every match, unless its a toxic squads
@H2H said:
maybe all the survivors who constantly complain about solo queue should just stop trying so hard so their mmr will go down and they'll face easier killers
" Should stop trying so hard for 4K every match so their mmr will go down and they'll face easier teams" would be more correct quote to killers.
If 39% escape rate is already try so hard, how low is the escape rate for survivors to consider they're not try hard?
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@illNicola said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434736#Comment_3434736
So you're idea is that a killer can get max two kill because buffing gen speed to 150% for every surv is pure madness. Buffing gen speed to 50% for every surv means that a surv can make a gen alone in 45 seconds, considering prove thyself and other things is madness. Maybe I'm missing something, so if I'm missing something correct me, but if I understand correctly you're idea is to double gen speed for every surv with every kill, so a killer can have max 2 kill because after the first kill gen will be too fast.
Instead, my idea is to start normally, and punishing survs for getting caught in chase, also considering that I'm imagining how to rework some perks for both killer and surv to fit with my idea.
Thats the point, you have to aim for 8 hooks before kill so survivors cant take advantage of losing a survivor buff.
3 survivors remaining. 1 on hook, 1 go unhook, 1 inchase. In order to progress Gen at that time. The other 2 survivors can ignore healing to do Gen. Means they are easy down to their last hook.
I guess what youre thinking is 1 survivors death and other 3 still be healthy and have 3 hooks left? But isnt it tunneling?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3434586#Comment_3434586
....what the ######### is this
When youre so good at Killer people think youre a Survivor main.
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Give killers a better knife doesnt stop killer to bring a gun to a knife fight.
Its best to take away the gun.