Blueberry
Blueberry
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The buff was extremely minuscule, verging on being simply called a QoL than a buff. He’s almost just as bad as he was before, definitely hasn’t moved a tier. He needs significantly more buffs.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2643551#Comment_2643551
Three yalls in one post. Interesting stuff.
I'm from the south, it's pretty normal around here.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
How long would your reduced speed boost be? One of his biggest problems is that speed boost allowing the Survivors to get so far. I was thinking about removing the speed boost completely because of how much that extra speed boost can hurt Nemesis.
Also do you think his tentacle hitboxes would still need to require perfect accuracy if you can't/don't drag them?
Well I wasn't going completely in on removing the boost entirely because of how much I'm attempting to boost his map pressure to slow gens down. Maybe cutting the speed boost they get by like half.
I think the dragging of his tentacle is an intended feature and without it he would be much weaker.
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I'd prefer versing slug builds.
That said, slug builds are basically dead right now from boons + the plethora of anti-slug perks that have come out. Same goes for hit and run builds.
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If y'all get 4 slugged at 5 gens y'all either had to play extremely bad, multiple times or the killer is just significantly better than all of you. That should not be happening.
In other words y'all needed to have your mmr lowered. The killer probably thought the same thing.
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That's the thing, to even have a chance at high MMR against an equally skilled group to yourself you have to tunnel/camp if you want a win. The games balance is just that terribly bad.
Now there are quite a lot of outliers as well though such as which killer and what map. There are a couple maps you won't be forced to camp/tunnel and there are also a lot that you will lose even when you do camp/tunnel.
If you play MMR at a high level you can test it out trying matches playing normally and matches hard camping/tunneling. You will find that on average you get significantly more wins hard camping/tunneling.
The games so unbalanced that if you "play the game" you're playing a lose/lose scenario. The best choice is to just not even play. IE camping/tunneling instead of going for "normal" play.
This all said, I hardly ever camp/tunnel because it's not really fun for anyone. It's just hard to blame anyone that does though.
What's even more hilarious is that the MMR system actively incentivizes this "un-fun" play style as well. All it really cares about is kills and match time, so your chase times, loops, hooks, ect is all irrelevant bar the time added to the match.
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Have we actually seen any statement on all the hackers going around from BHVR? I don't believe we have but I could be mistaken.
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He's weak enough that being asleep doesn't matter. Rarely does anyone care to wake up whether through skill checks or even clocks for that matter.
It's kinda funny to realize that a killer is so non intimidating that even when counter play is put in front of them they decide it's not even worth the time to take it. Lol it's sad.
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We shouldn't be balancing around kills period. It's heavily flawed.
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Why after 5 years there are still holes in all the shack walls baffles me. There is no mind game when you can see the killer the whole time.
The other part of shack where there isn't holes is also uninteresting as it's nothing but a 50/50 guess. They're always going to hide their red stain regardless, so whether they end up committing or doubling back is nothing but a guess. The difference between the guesses for each side is that losing that guess costs the killer a lot more than it costs the survivors.
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Man you're late bud. That nerf happened like what...4-5 years ago? lol
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I would say at least 25% of the perks could have their effects literally doubled and they would still be garbage. That should say something about how bad the balancing is on a lot of them.
Honestly they don't even need to give up a lot of development time on perks. Just run through the list and start jacking up the numbers on dozens of them that see no play.
I like that we're seeing regular passes on improving old perks but it's too slow and most of them are too light handed. We need to see like double the amount of perks on each update getting buffed and much heavier handed on those buffs. Many of them that have been touched are still bad.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642260#Comment_2642260
True, I was actually watching when he got that 2 hour MMR queue, I stopped watching but forgot that he ended up in a game, which he lost.
I suppose there are not many streamers who can always win now with MMR? probably a good thing I guess.
Generally speaking no, not a lot consecutively at high mmr bar some off exceptions like Nurse.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2642098#Comment_2642098
Bruh he has a 50K streak with most of the Killers XD
I get what you're saying though, it's not like he's literally 4King 100% of games since he switches up, but he's pretty dominant
That's pre-mmr. Which is a big difference.
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Honestly 10 minutes is like the absolute bare minimum for a match to be fun. I would have even picked longer if it was available. Almost any match under 10 minutes isn't fun for either side.
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Because if they were even remotely useful the casual survivor base would complain. It's essentially the story of why most things are undertuned. The game is balanced around the lowest common denominator.
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People would start blocking killers every other match for whatever silly reason. Way too abusable.
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I don't think map offerings themselves are an issue. They are more a representation of how unbalanced many maps are. If the maps were better balanced the offerings wouldn't matter as much.
Also, seeing as it's a 4:1 ratio the killer map offering should carry much more weight than a survivors map offering since they're able to throw more. IE if one survivor throws an Ormond offering and the killer throws an Autohaven offering, the Autohaven offering should win every time.
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@Tr1nity said:
When you run nemesis on nemesis and nemesis's nemesis goes off than nemesis has a new nemesis.
Facts. It's true!
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I don't mind getting RPD, it actually makes the match play out differently. We currently have greater than 50% of the maps with the exact same tiles that bar some different aesthetics essentially play exactly the same. That's boring.
Autohavens, Coldwind, MacMillan, ect ect. Bar some size differences and a couple building structures it's the same map, with the same tiles, that plays out the same as each other. Not to mention most those repeated tiles are arguably way too strong. This is why I think most people don't like RPD or most indoor maps for that matter. It takes away a lot of the abusable loops.
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If you play killer you're better off having it on.
If you play survivor you're better off having it off.
Crossplay in general is going to lower the quality of your teammates. You will have longer queues though.
This is also because your PC at base. If you were console it would be the opposite. Console players on average will play much worse.
I personally keep it on for faster queues and to have some semblance of improved balance.
"Note: one thing I do find frustrating is the number of killer dodges. Maybe they see our hours or that some people are grouped up, but there have been times at night where the lobby time is longer then the queue time."
They dodge because the game isn't balanced for swf so he'd be intentionally walking into a match where y'all have a significant unfair advantage.
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Better yet, just allow him to hold it and use it when he wants rather that what we have now which is a use it or lose it design.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2641114#Comment_2641114
"I thought we might get a discussion going of potential ways to improve him not only in terms of strength but also in terms of enjoyment to play as and against him."
I'm sure survivors enjoy him as he is now. so expect no changes.
Yeah I'm not expecting, just attempting to remain optimistic.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2641192#Comment_2641192
If the killer being looped for a few minutes whilst all gens are gone is supposed to be fun because of chases, then the actual act of being tunnelled should be fun on the other side, no? And once you're dead, either your team isn't amazing (and the game is likely to end soon because of reduced gen ability and increased killer pressure) or they are (and it's likely to end soon because they do the gens), but it's not going to be an eternity.
And it seems bizarre to ask anyone on either side to specifically sabotage their gameplay for a notional even amount of fun. If you play a game where you can die, you're going to spend time dead and not doing anything. FPS's have respawn timers and endless running back to where you died etc.
Well it's interesting as well to compare the match results of playing normally and playing super campy/tunneling. I've been doing some sample runs going for full camp/tunnel to compare the results. Oddly enough you will end up with way more wins playing full camp/tunnel than you will playing normally. You will occasionally get the good group that just does the gens and leaves the guy on hook, but that's the rarity.
Ideally we'd like a balanced system where playing the more fun way for both sides (not camping/tunneling) was the most effective.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2641158#Comment_2641158
I'm still trying to work out why tunnelling is called bad. The most effective thing a killer can do to increase their chance of winning is decrease the number of survivors working on gens. The best way to do that is to kill people off sequentially. Only a few ramping/snowball builds benefit from spreading the focus across multiple survivors.
Why wouldn't you, all other things being equal (not going to extreme lengths to do it etc.), hook one person three times rather than three people once?
Tunneling someone out would be the smartest play to win. We typically just try not to because we want everyone to have a fun match. Ironically this mentality is typically not reciprocated by many survivors.
There's a survivor rule book killers are expected to follow but there isn't one for survivors. It's a double standard.
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9/10 times I see people call the killer a camper/tunneling he wasn't. It's usually the survivors making a bad play and killer punishes them for it. People like to make excuses by nature.
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@Phasmamain said:
I like your ideas for zombies but if they were to get all those changes I would remove their collision after a successful hit.
I'm totally fine with that.
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@xili84 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2639589#Comment_2639589
I think this is the best way one can put it. The action itself is meaningless. But for me also it is the fact that the 4man SWF Thinks they are a god or something similar, when all they did is just abuse all the game mechanics that has been thrown into their lap on survivors side. It's like making 2 people fight, but one has a gun and the other a knife. The guy with the knife gets shot, and then the shooter acts like "YEEEEEEH I OWNED THAT GUY"... THAT is what I hate the most about those people. The complete self-unawareness.
Whenever I play solo survivor and the killer has no chance to get kills, cause everyone is using their meta perks to max efficiency, I feel so bad for that killer, cause I know exactly what is happening. It is not because me or the others are playing good or pro, it is because we are abusing all the advantages we have as a survivor team.
Exactly.
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Well for one there are a majority of killers that are so weak you can lose the game regardless of how well you play. For many people losing the game at killer selection isn't fun. They want to feel as though their skill level matters on the result of the match.
There's also simply people enjoying different play styles.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
- For every survivor currently infected zombies gain an addition 25% move speed.
- Every time a survivor is hit with Tentacle Strike zombies move 25% faster for 10 seconds. During this boost period zombies are significantly louder.
- Zombie detection range increased by 8m and field of view increased by 18 degrees. (Admin Wristband basically)
These changes are more directed for Nemesis to use his zombies like moving trapper traps where you can funnel the survivor into zombies and it would give zombies a lot more threat in general in bigger maps where distances for them to patrol are big for them to make any difference.
We had a bit of this going on in PTB for Nemesis, than they weakened zombies detection range and made zombies louder post PTB. The survivors comments regarding zombies if I remember correctly was something like "Zombies are low skill map pressure that auto win the game for killer". I can't remember what precisely the feedback was regarding them, but it was something like that. It increases skill-cap of using zombies, but to the survivor's perceptive, it just looks like PVE mechanic that is defeating them and they don't like that so I doubt they'd ever do that. He could also use an extra zombie so there killer+3 zombies, 1 zombie for each survivor.
"Reduce the speed boost gained from tentacle strike on causing infection. (basically only when it's used to cause infection, not cause damage)"
"Mutation rate when hitting survivors increased by 33% (Marvins Blood)"
This I doubt they'll ever change, apparently they think nemesis's 1vs1 is oppressive because you need make reads at pallets and survivors don't like 50/50's as seen by spirit and deathslinger changes etc. This ironically his biggest problem right now a chase killer is that he almost has negative corrupt intervention because his early game is so bad that he spend first 1-2 minute of the game getting his ability which doesn't do damage therefore survivors are likely to always complete 3 gens before he even hits tier 3 and gets his first hook.
"Using a vaccine takes 10 seconds longer."
Another aspect they'll never change about him. His ability to give free stypic needles as item in a chase just double down on giving him a bad early game. Very few survivors even utilize this mechanic against him. I'm pretty sure the reason why its like 4 seconds to heal is because they want survivors to have extra health states vs his "oppressive" power 1vs1. Allows them to shift+W longer, makes his early game worse so its easier to genrush him before his anti-loop becomes remotely relevant.
They'd never change any of these mechanics for nemesis because they do not want killer's skill to be expressed in any killer. Nemesis has probably most potencial out of new killers they've released. He's just bold down by a bunch of negative mechanics that make him purposely underwhelming so that survivors won't complain about him.
Pretty much agree with everything you've said. Them balancing around low skill survivor is inevitably the root of the problem.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640431#Comment_2640431
They weren't, I'll agree with that. However I stomped these survivors with one of my least played killers on my first game. If you noticed, I didn't even have the muscle memory fully down yet. I am by no means a good Nemesis, but if I can do that while rusty, when unrusted and better practiced I could likely do the same to a really good team. Nemesis isn't op, but he's not weak either.
I don't mean to bring up your game play but just to make a point. If the survivors still lost after you missed at least 4/5 tentacle strikes you threw that's less a representation of how good Nemesis is as you're saying, but more a representation of how truly bad the survivors were. We're seeing the same thing is my point, just interpreting it differently.
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I have not tested it, but I would assume most the "hex" and "dull totem" perks do not work with them as they are "Rekindled Totems", not hex or dull totems.
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If we're solely talking addon pass and not necessarily the killers kit, I'd say Ghostface. Other than cooldown reductions nearly all of his addons are complete trash.
If we're talking killers themselves Myers and Legion come to mind first. Both need a good bit of improvements.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640204#Comment_2640204
Sure. This video was recorded earlier today. Bear in mind this is my first time playing him in about a month and it was also my first game of the day, so I was really rusty:
As you said you were rusty from being gone I won't comment on your play, but being honest with you man, those survivors were not high mmr.
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@OhEtsu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294928/nemesis-discussion
Nemesis is fine imo. I do really well with him personally and I play at high MMR because of my Nurse.
I actually don't think he plays well whatsoever at high MMR. Would you mind posting a link to your games if you record them?
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294928/nemesis-discussion
I think that it should also be an option to force zombie respawns from a distance or to have a built in death timer if they don't move for 15 seconds or so.
I suppose that could work as a fix for their getting stuck issue.
I thought about making changes to an addon that would make your zombies respawn on whatever gen has the most progress. Would be quite hilarious of an addon.
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@Mat_Sella said:
I never understood why the devs went so light with Nemesis vaccine cleansing time. What's the point of infecting someone if they just easily get rid of what is otherwise supposed to be deadly? Might as well add skill checks to the vaccine box too to keep survivors on their toes.
Also, they couldve went with scarier zombies. Others have suggested the Ne-a zombies, and I think it would've been way creepier.
It feels like they were originally for a different mechanic that never happened and then just kind left in because. His powers not really strong enough to care about using the vaccine, while it's also simultaneously extremely easy to get and use the vaccine. The whole vaccine and vaccine box mechanic feels kind of pointless, same as infection itself as me and another poster mentioned. That's basically why I tried to have his "buff" be scaled on infected survivors as it gives it more of a purpose and rewards keeping everyone infected. I also tried to give the vaccine/box a purpose in being a little addition gen slow down in having it take longer. The survivors should actually care about using the vaccine now as well since infection will finally have a purpose.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
It may not be possible but I feel like just adding another zombie to the crew would make the game more interesting. Nemesis can then farm his zombies for tier 2 in early game or let them roam for extra gen pressure. Of course there would need to be some extra balance for that to happen.
I'd just like to see his zombies be annoying rather than a pushover since there are only ever 2 of them.
I would have gone this route as well but unfortunately the devs have already said it isn't happening which is why I decided on this second best route which is basically trying to make the 2 we do have as good as if we had 3 or more.
"I'd just like to see his zombies be annoying rather than a pushover since there are only ever 2 of them."
I agree. My changes are intended to actually make them scary and have survivors actively worry/look out for them instead of what we currently have now (just an ineffective annoyance)
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294928/nemesis-discussion
He's a very odd killer. If it wasn't for the incredible popularity of the franchise, I don't think he'd be played much.
- His zombies are amazingly map/RNG dependent. Some maps feel like they need a third zombie, and their AI still bugs out.
- Infection...seems pointless. It doesn't really give much info and a lot of survivors don't even bother cleansing it. This feels like a part of his kit that got nerfed somewhere in development and then they ran of out time to do anything with it.
- His tentacle is quite strong, despite it's janky hitbox, but the DH 'fix' amounted to a pretty substantial nerf to the tentacle, as not only does it give you a free dodge, but it can also prevent it from hitting you *and* breaking a pallet if you time it right.
"His zombies are amazingly map/RNG dependent. Some maps feel like they need a third zombie, and their AI still bugs out."
Yeah ideally I would have gone for more zombies, even scaling it by map size, but unfortunately the devs have said that isn't happening which is why I decided to go the second best route which was making the 2 we have as good as having 3 or more would have been.
"Infection...seems pointless. It doesn't really give much info and a lot of survivors don't even bother cleansing it. This feels like a part of his kit that got nerfed somewhere in development and then they ran of out time to do anything with it."
This is actually why I focused a lot on the benefits of infection (increased zombie speed at base for more people infected). I also felt like infection currently feels pointless and as you mentioned, probably lost along the way some where in development. The change actually makes being infected matter and encourage them to want to get it off as removing it lowers your map pressure incrementally.
"His tentacle is quite strong, despite it's janky hitbox, but the DH 'fix' amounted to a pretty substantial nerf to the tentacle, as not only does it give you a free dodge, but it can also prevent it from hitting you *and* breaking a pallet if you time it right."
I agree which is why I wasn't looking to make much of any improvements in this area.
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2640112#Comment_2640112
Yes, but not every killer will be A or S tier.
Nemesis is fine as he is, and if his zombies would not get stuck (let's say we even give him one more) he already would be very strong.
The only problem he really has is that his zombies are often very useless, but the more fun it is when they are actually useful. I would rather see other killers be balanced (except zombies being stuck all the time). I mainly use them as info anyways, only if i can close a tight spot (for example he guards the shack entrance).
"Yes, but not every killer will be A or S tier."
I actually think that's a problem. A tier should be the baseline for all killers to have a chance at being competitively viable. Anything below A is under performing and should be improved.
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@lavars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294928/nemesis-discussion
The zombies JUST need to stop getting stuck on everything and he would be one higher tier, he's still strong as he is, is add-ons are mediocore though
Even with that issue fixed I think most people (myself included) would put him in B tier and that's being quite generous. B tier in DBD is extremely weak for reference. B tier basically means those killers require the survivors to make lots of mistakes to capitalize on.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I like the idea of scaling zombie movement speed with survivor infection. That wouldn't solve them getting stuck on random objects though.
That is an issue I agree but that's more bug related than it is tuning. I'm assuming that is something the devs will be working on.
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Sounds fine to me.
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It isn't necessarily the actions themselves that get to you as much as it is the fact that they're able to do them and get away with it because the games imbalance allows them to.
In another game that is a shooting game for example. A guy tbags you but you're able to get him back for it if you're skilled enough. IE you have a problem but there's something you can do about it.
In DBD they can tbag you, but bar some exceptions you can be much more skilled then them and still not be able to get him back for it because of the games poor balance. IE you have a problem but there's nothing you can do about it.
The real thing getting to you as a killer here isn't the action, but the helplessness to do anything about it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2639030#Comment_2639030
I do agree that you can do so. However, he has an extremely short cooldown, so all they need to do is counter their rush and since you're out of position if there isn't a tile near you, you get hit.
Usually you can attempt to make them use 4 rushes and then take a hit, giving them a much longer cooldown, you a speed boost, and they must then recharge all charges. Alchemist's Ring removes this counterplay and makes you forced to rely on the first tactic which doesn't work due to him being a 115 killer with about 2.5s of fatigue at most.
Good Blight's can use bump logic to deal with tiles well. Alch Ring makes Blight's chase astronomically good on maps he's already good on, without really augmenting him on maps he's bad on (Lerys, Hawkins, RPD, etc). It's not healthy game design imho. Add-ons should help cover weaknesses not take strengths into the next level.
(and no, before anyone decides to say this, this is not me saying everything that everyone else has is fine. There are plenty of issues with balance in this game for both sides).
"However, he has an extremely short cooldown, so all they need to do is counter their rush and since you're out of position if there isn't a tile near you, you get hit."
I guess this is the part I just fundamentally disagree with. I think his cooldown is long enough to get to a window/pallet.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2639007#Comment_2639007
No. Not at all. It's an addon on a killer which removed an awful lot of counterplay, on a killer who has already strong addons. If Blight were weaker it'd be fine but he isn't. He's a top tier killer addon-less, Alchemist Ring is nowhere near fine.
You don't agree you can outplay his dashes by putting objects between you?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638993#Comment_2638993
Except when you face that one pc blight that decides exploiting is the only way to play the killer for those sweet sweet 180 flick
(confirmed exploit by a mod, team is aware, can't explain the exploit at request of a mod)
We don't balance the game around exploits since they are just that, exploits. We assume they will be fixed eventually and without that exploit existing I don't see an issue with the addon in its current state. Would you agree that without the exploit the addon is fine?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638960#Comment_2638960
Man it's almost like the counterplay to Blight is to make him use as many rushes as you can before you get hit so you gain as much distance as you can since his power is so good at covering distance, and alchemist ring takes away this counterplay forcing you to adopt the wonderful strategy of "Just don't get hit".
I actually don't think "just don't get hit" is his counter play at all, it's tight corners. He can curve his lunge significantly yes, but not his actual rush itself. If you play like a shift W gamer it's gonna seem oppressive because that's not really doing any counter play. You have to abuse the terrain. Like literally even a rock you can force him to cancel his power for a normal m1 in which you just use that animation time to then go for the actual loop.
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I don't see an issue with the addon at all. It's how good more addons need to be. I'm not really much of a Blight player either. His rushes are just pretty easily dealt with, especially after the distance you've gained getting hit by the first one.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2638140#Comment_2638140
10 seconds is a very long time to see someone's aura though. Even Bitter Murmur and Rancor dont give 10 second aura reads untill the final gen is done. And even after that, the only other aura reading perks that last longer than 5 seconds are pretty much 1 time uses or hexes.
And most those perks are generally garbage. I'd argue most of them need to be brought up to be more competitive.
Even if we be hypothetical and say we make it 5 seconds instead of 10. Would realistically anyone run that? Probably not.
I feel like my idea is being conservative is my point I suppose. It may even need more.