Blueberry
Blueberry
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That's why (among many other reasons) balancing around kills is a terrible metric to use. Most the other options all have issues as well don't get me wrong, but kills is probably the worst one to use as it has many more flaws than the alternatives. Pips for survivor and hooks for killers would yield much better results even with their flaws. Hooks at least somewhat allows us to distinguish between camping kills and actual kills for example. A killer that plays like garbage but just stands there face camping for his 2 kills all game looks "balanced" by our current system even though he did awful, while he would look terrible by a hook system. You'd see a similar result using the PIP system as well. Heck even the extremely old system we had ages ago of piping by bloodpoints would even be a more accurate system.
Something else that artificially puts people at a higher mmr than they should be is running SWF. It boosts you up much, much higher than you could have normally acquired through solo queue.
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@landromat said:
Yes, "casual" mode without mmr and grades where SWF is allowed. Ranked is for solos only
^ This is probably the easiest solution and the most likely one to happen. Especially given the devs recent mention of ranked/unranked modes in the last survey. They could even add a scaling bonus bloodpoint system to wherever the longer queues are to dynamically keep them better balanced in wait time.
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@Desh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2631085#Comment_2631085
This would affect negatively affect queue times since more players would play one over the other. This would impact Survivors more harshly.
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Grades don't make any sense to exist, especially seeing as we already have a Devotion system to show play time. All it leads to is confusion for players.
What should have been done from the beginning is to show MMR, attach ranks to MMR and apply rewards for that instead of grades. The game is currently basically showing you systems that are meaningless and not showing you the systems that do matter.
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@BrotherLove said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630790#Comment_2630790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LvIp5dJKwE
Here is a link to vod #1. If this isnt allowed I apologize in advance.
I don't want to be that guy but honestly even at the later matches which were supposedly high mmr they were complete potatoes. I mean they were running to dead zones, doing a dull totem in front of you, healing in a corner of the map away from any pallets or windows, unhooking right in your face, ect ect. If some other players who also play at high mmr want to watch the matches as well you'll see what I mean. Also, if you main Demo how was your mmr supposedly starting out low as you mentioned? MMR data has been being collected for a long period of time before MMR release. IE you should supposedly be starting out at high MMR.
EDIT: I even looked up some of the people you supposedly played against at high mmr. Many of them only had <50 hours in the game. That isn't high MMR.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2630823#Comment_2630823
The thing is, it's possible to make changes that only affect high skill players or changes that only affect low skill players. In recent memory the devs gave a MS buff to Nemesis T3 as a targetted buff towards higher level play with Nemesis.
The problem is the devs rarely ever address higher level play as they basically solely focus on making the experience better at lower levels. Devs shouldn't focus on one side over the other.
Totally agree.
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Honestly the whole idea people have that balancing for better players hurts low level players is a myth. Essentially all that will happen is that those worse players will start to lose a few more games because they played bad until their mmr adjusts and they are winning/losing exactly as much as they were before. In other words balancing for the better players only changes the invisible mmr number attached to bad players, it doesn’t actually hinder their experience nearly at all. However now we actually have a more balanced game at high mmr. There’s no reason we shouldn’t be balancing for better players as almost all games do for just this exact reason.
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Could you link the videos, I’d like to see them.
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"Overpowered" in the patch notes...seriously..they wrote that.
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I've actually been wondering this exact same thing. Makes it more annoying to get back to when on my phone.
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I wish we'd stop asking to nerf a specific perk interaction every time one comes up with a new killer that is decently good. Do you really want to continue to see the same few perks on every single killer? That's what doing this has done over the years.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546300#Comment_2546300
Wait, how did they gut the 'separate per killer' thing?
Even a killer you've never touched will start at an MMR higher because of your main. IE if your main is at max MMR your other killer will be at like 90% of that. So not exactly as high, but pretty close.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546300#Comment_2546300
Yes, but if you suck at that killer, your mmr will go lower. I find it to be better than, choose a fresh killer and play against <10hr survivors like it was during MMR testing.
I don't think it has to be that black or white, IE <10hr survivors or peak 1900mmr. How about just simply 50% of your mains highest mmr as the default start rather than what it currently is which is like 90% of your highest.
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SBMM for high mmr players just isn't fun at all (or balanced for that matter). Not to mention how they gutted the whole "separate per killer thing". If your main is at max mmr you could jump on a brand new killer never played before and still be matched just barely below mmr cap level.
The games imbalances at the high level used to be covered up by bad matchmaking but now that isn't the case.
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Like 80% of the perks I havn't seen in maybe a year. So many need massive buffs/changes.
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@Pulsar said:
Because SBMM is miserable for people who are good at the game.
^ This.
For the average player SBMM is good but at high MMR it's just terrible. SWF sweat fests every single match and normally the games imbalance at high rank is covered up by bad matchmaking but with SBMM that's no longer the case.
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Not always but it is extremely good for solo queue.
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High MMR DBD right now is a sweat fest and really not fun.
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It does need a lot of help.
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Either an increase to regression or an extra percent on kick. This has been needed for ages. Kicking a gen without a perk is 9/10 times a terrible idea.
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It's pretty good for survivors in general or "average" players.
However, for the higher tier players (killer role specifically) it's a nightmare. Those "sweat squads" weren't too common so at least you got to have a lot of fun games in between but now when your MMR is so high it's literally almost every single game back to back SWF with thousands of hours each. If the game was balanced at the top tier of course I wouldn't care as it's a balanced level of skill on each side, but that's simply not the case. You normally psuedo avoid the unbalanced nature of the game through bad matchmaking but now that we have that gone it's lots of either losing through game balance or winning but you really didn't have fun because everyone's just playing with the most un-fun "play to win" mindset.
Yes the survivors get better killer players as well however the biggest weakness for survivors was the matchmaking and SBMM has essentially removed that at the high MMR. So even for top tier MMR survivors it's still quite good for them overall.
TLDR: SBMM it's a nightmare for high MMR killer players and saps a lot of the fun out of the game as it points out the glaring balance problems in the game way more so than before where it was at least covered up better. I would much rather have the old system since they refuse to balance for the high tier game play.
Also a side note: I really hate how it sticks even the killers you don't play at a base high MMR because of your mains. I came back from a bit of a hiatus for school so I just bought Nemi and literally my first few games even touching him are also facing multi-thousand hour SWF that I would usually see on a main.
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Pretty overrated and not worth a perk slot imo.
What little time it saves you in chase you could just run another gen slow down perk for way, way more value.
Generally speaking most DBD's "chase" perks are quite under tuned bar only 1 or 2 exceptions.
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A is being generous and also assuming we don't end up getting the dust kick up later. She's gone from "competitive" though. Against actually good survivors she's now loopable.
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Spirit, Huntress, and then Blight probably.
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The only real outlier is Trickster, but common, let's be honest he's so bad he could use the help.
If anything just make it require a few knives to trigger for him. Don't gut the perk again for everyone just because of him.
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Calling Wraith overpowered was just laughable. He doesn't need this nerf whatsoever.
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Victor on your back.
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His quick shots made him unique with a different play style to Huntress which is why'd you pick one over the other. Now he's just a bad Huntress. Like why would I play DS over Huntress? The things he did uniquely are gone and what he has now is what Huntress already has.
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Even 6 hooks would be VASTLY more accurate to balance around than 2K.
Balancing around 2k you can literally just face camp 2 people to death before the gates are open and make it look like a "balanced match". There's just so many factors that get you "kills" that don't equate with "balance" whatsoever.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2542514#Comment_2542514
Well, then why don't we put DH on the same limitation? It gains a token whenever a gen is done, and requires a token to use.
I actually think that's a pretty good idea lol
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2541645#Comment_2541645
Yeah, but there's so much counterplay, it'd render the perk unusable.
Issue with Dead Hard is the distance, which is what gets complained about. But remove that, and the i-frames aren't enough to carry the perk. It'd need a new tool to compensate the distance loss.
I should've been more specific. I wasn't necessarily implying just removing the distance and nothing else. The i-frame could possibly be lengthened/improved.
That said, even just the i-frame itself is very strong and I don't believe there is too much counter play.
To put this into perspective, if the killers had a perk like DH it would be a hex perk, with a cooldown, and it would be a weaker version. I say this to illustrate how overly strong it currently is relative to all other perks.
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Remove the distance, keep the invincibility.
The issue is the distance, not the i-frame. The i-frame rewards skilled timing, the distance part of it just allows you to greed every single loop without penalty, that's the part of it that's bad design. There's generally speaking no counter play to using DH for distance, there is counter play to the i-frame though.
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Even aside from the balance issues as far as their power level (which is too high), just simply as a concept they are absolutely terrible design with how the games meta is. Killers frankly do not have time to look for totems. Adding objectives for the killers when they are already vastly in the negative when it comes to time just makes no sense and shows a lack of understanding of the game.
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It needs to stay up too long to get any value out of it, but if it does stay up that long why didn't I just run DH? DH staying up that long can actually win me the game whereas Plaything staying up that long just simply makes it a "decent" perk. Now with this all said do you even see DH that often? No, you don't. So that tells you how nice Plaything is.
Like 90% of the hex perks simply aren't good enough for how easy they are to find and remove. The "Risk/Reward" balance just isn't there.
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His tier never changed. His buff is so minuscule you could almost just call it a QoL change. I could see an argument for D tier if we're being generous.
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Workshop Grease should literally just be a base kit change. Her ambush is trash and we shouldn't have to waste an addon slot trying to bandaid fix bad design.
The other addons are cool mostly.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523657#Comment_2523657
His gameplay was definitely not non-interactive. That post was like reading survivor rank 20 baby post. the window situation he/she is describing is bad situation for survivor. The objective is to put yourself into good situation as survivor and to avoid.... bad situations as survivor. The whole point of his gameplay is to bait and predict shots... that is the whole mindgame.
The lower terror radius with M&A is desperate needed. For one it helps his chase efficiency because his shots initially are not lethal so his stealth first hits are very much needed and it helps his 4vs1 map pressure because it incentives survivors to heal to prevent being stealth 1-hit. It makes generators go a bit slower.
Everyone that plays deathslinger understands this.
Whats your thoughts on Plague changes Blueberry?
"His game play was definitely not non-interactive. That post was like reading survivor rank 20 baby post. the window situation he/she is describing is bad situation for survivor. The objective is to put yourself into good situation as survivor and to avoid.... bad situations as survivor. The whole point of his game play is to bait and predict shots... that is the whole mind game."
I disagree a bit. The quickfire is fast enough that baits are only working on bad DS players, there's no reason to pre-emptively fire as with how quick it is you don't need to. It's basically the same philosophy as not committing a Demo shred until the window animation is started. With zero punishment you just can spam tap the aim so the survivors just randomly wiggling 24/7, that's bad design. Like I said before though, even though I wanted this changed I overall wanted him buffed to compensate so I'm not happy with their changes. I do agree though that their scenario was pretty hyperbolic and just presented a bad survivor though, not necessarily the issues with his design. I agree with you for the most part though.
"The lower terror radius with M&A is desperate needed. For one it helps his chase efficiency because his shots initially are not lethal so his stealth first hits are very much needed and it helps his 4vs1 map pressure because it incentives survivors to heal to prevent being stealth 1-hit. It makes generators go a bit slower."
I agree.
"Whats your thoughts on Plague changes Blueberry?"
Plague is weak so a "buff" is nice but honestly their changes are mostly irrelevant. She's "technically" better, but nothing that really matters whatsoever. None of her real issues were addressed. They're so minor I'd almost just call it a QoL change. It's just a bunch of menial numbers that don't really change anything. So good yeah I guess, but disappointed in what could have been done.
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He needed some fixes for the non-interactive game play he had. However, the intent wasn't supposed to be an overall nerf and it was definitely a heavy nerf. If anything DS needed an overall buff. They definitely needed to give him more to compensate for what they took. Substantially more.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2523606#Comment_2523606
It’s a common addon it’s not supposed to be good plus it’s for beginners that can’t hit skill checks
I'd still argue many/most killer commons are better than this. It's sub par even for a common.
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The Interlocking Razor is complete trash. Who misses skill checks on Jigsaw boxes?
The other two I like.
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I see almost no difference in whether the survivors are left on the ground or on the hook. It's just as fun on both sides to me.
Only difference being it's actually slowing the gens down some and being nice by giving you more chances to live. There's also a plethora of anti-slug perks anyway.
What's the problem?
A 30min game from slugging is also extreme hyperbole and not even close to realistic. The hate of slugging in this game is totally irrational.
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@Clowning said:
Because an interesting design, no matter how weak, at least has the potential to be good with buffs and a few changes. It gives you something to hope for. A glorified M1 Killer is hardly something to be excited about.
^ This.
Old Freddy was extremely unique in design. All he needed was some tweaks to fix him, he didn't need a full rework.
I also wouldn't say most people disliked old Freddy. Most the screaming about old Freddy was from low rank/bad players who his kit was more challenging on. This could have been fixed without a rework. I'd argue most people actually overall liked old Freddy design wise, they just thought he needed some tweaks.
New Freddy is just a boring m1 killer with nothing unique about him and just abilities basically scrapped from other killers.
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Honestly like 90% of the perks in the game are garbage.
We need to see like massive waves of perk buffs. They also need to be much heavier handed with the buffs. Most the buffs while nice are still going to leave the perks unused.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2521197#Comment_2521197
People miss DS sometimes. And that comes with a hook. I dont think everyone will never miss a "disarm skillcheck". And unlike other skill check, missing this one may come with a hook.
Here is the link of customized Skill check. https://dbd-stats.net/skill-check/
Set both Good & Great to 30 (equal to DS), try to do 10 skill check to see if you miss any. Reminding, miss one may cost you a hook. If you're doing ok, try set both to 20 (with decrease skill check addon for example). In the end, skill check idea is to giving a risk, not free hook everytime they try to disarm.
The problem is the disparity between good and bad players when it comes to skill checks. The difficult you'd have to give those skill checks to make them relevant against even semi decent players would destroy all the bad players so the devs would never do it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2521197#Comment_2521197
I think trapper rework is going to be like clown's rework. Faster reload == more traps/carrying capacity. 5-6 add-ons changed for trapper. rest mostly be staying the same. Killers will play trapper for 1 week, realize he is still 99% the same and than you will realize that we lost a viable killer in Spirit against good players after 2-3 weeks. Trapper changes are nothing more than distraction.
Look on bright side, at least they figured how to change trapper's trap capacity from 1->2 after 5 years.
Pretty much lol.
Still dissapointed in the sad Clown "rework" we got. He's still nearly just as bad.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2520984#Comment_2520984
Isnt this would buff it? Since you will always get trapped that also cause injured? Though I feel its too much.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2521013#Comment_2521013
Longer disarm doesnt matter when 1 guy follow after you to disarm even if 3sec increased to 7sec. Because you lose more than 7sec to return and resetting it or find somewhere else to place. As @MrCalac123 said, it should come with a skill check, just equal DS skill check (30 degree) that can be decreased with addon
I never said it would compensate for the time he wasted. All I said was it would be "better", not "good", which is true. It's still a net loss for Trapper regardless, it just means he loses a tad less.
If you want to add a skill check sure, but it really wouldn't matter. Skill checks in this game are so easy that they're irrelevant. Even them being called "skill" checks is quite silly.
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It's better than nothing but no, it won't change much at all. He needs significantly more buffs than what he's getting.
-Make base start carry 3 or 4 traps
-Maps need way, way, way more grass.
-Stepping in a trap should cause a damage state period. IE if you get yourself out after you stepped in one while injured you're now in the dying state. Only way you should get out unscathed after stepping in a trap while injured is if a teammate helps you.
-Trap trigger radius should be larger
-Traps should be a good bit darker at base
-Longer to disarm
-Traps should re-arm after a certain amount of time (weaker form of the addon)
Does this sound like a ton? He still wouldn't even be A tier if he got all this. That's how weak he is right now.
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And a pretty heavy handed buff at that.
Needs his stalk limit per player removed. (Using the weakest players to take down the stronger ones is suppose to be his thing)
Return his ability to multi-stalk. (He should be rewarded for catching multiple survivors out of position)
Increase his stalk gained from further away. (More rewarding for skilled plays)
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I would've picked Spirit if the option was there.
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I'd rather play against anything other than Deathslinger. Very little actual player interaction going on there.
Honorable mention goes to Hag though as her intended play style is just mind numbingly boring and has very little chases which is where the fun of the game is at. Seems this is where most the consensus is at as well.