Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Cassiopeiae said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024793#Comment_4024793
Eliminating crutches and removing support for poor gameplay is not a negative change. In fact, the gameplay elements being targeted are largely ineffective against competent survivors and these changes primarily exist to allow casual players to, you know, play the game.
On the killer side, many players are artificially elevated beyond their actual skill level through the use of such tactics, often combined with low-risk, high-reward killer choices. And on the survivor side, some players adopt overly passive “ratting” strategies, contributing little to team progress and relying on others to complete objectives or die first.
Neither of these playstyles is healthy, skillful, or deserving of preservation within the game’s ecosystem.
There's contradictions in these statements. Tunneling/camping is a crutch, but so is literally all the base kit features they're adding. It's also not addressing the many circumstances these tactics are necessary because of the games poor balancing. (zero of which has been addressed in this patch) Also no, they are very effective against good survivors, that's literally why those squads are all stacked in anti tunnel/slug perks. If it wasn't effective they wouldn't be running them. They run them because they know that's the only way they're losing.
Many of these changes for survivor are elevating survivors to win matches they have no business winning and is hand holding them.
The game is trying to force spread hook matches in a game that is not balanced to allow spread hook matches against good survivors.
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Or..you know..they're just pointing out that they're in fact bad changes.
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For me survivor queues are fast early day and long at night when all the swf squads get on so the killers stop queuing.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024679#Comment_4024679
As I stated in my reply, these particular stats were gathered over a month.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1J2ZUZZSCFJM/screenshot-2025-11-05-155645.png
8-15-2025 - 9-15-2025
This is the NightLight patch I am using.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1VQRY7KKK2HK/screenshot-2025-11-05-155735.png
As you can see, they are clearly directly comparable.
Ah what threw me off was all the rest of Japans stats were from different time frames. You are correct then these are very different.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024587#Comment_4024587
That doesn't seem to be true either.
Taking the most recent stats from Japan showing KR (in order, without numbers), the order is completely different. These were taken over a month, from August-September 2025, which means we have a direct NightLight comparison.
Here's the breakdown.
Official BHVR Stats:
Vecna
Freddy
Sadako
Dredge
Pig
Twins
Blight
Ghoul
Skull Merchant
Oni
Now, for NightLight (plus how many games were submitted):
Blight (355)
Oni (146)
Vecna (160)
Artist (77)
Freddy (101)
Dredge (98)
Doctor (127)
Ghoul (411)
Unknown (169)
Dracula (163)
There is only one Killer in the same position, that being Ghoul. Artist, Unknown, Dracula and Doctor don't even appear on BHVR's stats. I could play 100 games in a month with Doctor and get a 90% KR, but that wouldn't be statistically significant, would it?
NightLight just isn't a reliable source for information, except for extremely broad trends. Not even for positional placement of Killers in a KR list.
I already told you those Japan stats are from a year and you're comparing them to a month on Nightlight. Of course they're not going to match. This isn't an accurate comparison. You're comparing stats that were being gathered under different patches.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024602#Comment_4024602
Because nurse is not 115 speed, you see the slower killer is the more powerfull power mostly chase one he needs to deal with loops like spirit,chucky but nurse can only be played with her power not as 110 or 115 killer and this makes her kills on average lower than blight or trapper,ghostface and her power is not the easiest to use but not hardest tbh (atleast for me).
Right, I just don’t see what this has to do with Krasue
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024456#Comment_4024456
True but but nurse is just whole abaout her power and krasue has more limits in chase and counters even if the player is good, now I would say ghoul is about same on skill requirement but has more leverage against things like bodyblocks or catching up, dealing with endurance and other things than her.
Yeah I’m just saying that Nurse is held back on stats because of her skill requirement but Krasue doesn’t have this. So her kill stats should be more accurate like most killers unlike Nurse who’s kill stats don’t really paint the whole picture.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024565#Comment_4024565
NightLight has been historically lower than the actual KR's. If you recall, this was a major controversy because everyone thought the stats were around 50-55%, and BHVR released stats showing that KR's were closer to 60-65%.
Unfortunately, you are correct in that NightLight isn't on any archive website and they only hold stats for three months. We have no way of knowing.
However, considering the historical understatements and tiny sample size, NightLight isn't a real source of information. Maybe it could be used to establish broad trends, but nothing specific. The only thing you can conclude from the Krasue data is that she's weaker post-nerfs, which is exactly what we hoped for.
This isn’t what I’ve seen when comparing their KRs historically. However putting that aside and referencing your statement on broad trends, they’ve also generally had killers in nearly the same kill rate ordering as bhvr, such as looking at most lethal killers. So even if we ignore % and just ordering Krasue is still “far down”. Even if we be extremely generous with the % and add the highest kill discrepancy to their % and assume they’re undershooting her, she is still below their kill goals.
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@adam1233467 said:
She definitely got killed againts good teams that bodyblock 24/7 for each other, but against soloq she is a monsters.
Well that's what I was thinking as well but soloq and bad players make up the majority so if anything this rational would have her kill rate high as the average group wouldn't be able to pull off the body blocks.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024535#Comment_4024535
Weren't the Japan stats for September?
No, if you look in the fine print below the Japan stats for it's time frame it was a years worth of stats. If it was just Sept we could compare it to Nightlight, but it's not.
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@LordLazeris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024459#Comment_4024459
Bhvr stats are just as untrustable as nightlight stats.
^ Literally this. They just gave us a 40% tunnel rate lol
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024535#Comment_4024535
That depends on if nightlight stat contributors represent a sample of the average DBD playerbase (they dont). Its like polling 15k people in one city and saying the responses represent the views of the entire country.
They've historically been quite accurate even given this. Given BHVRs track record I also find their data even more questionable tbh.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024494#Comment_4024494
It certainly isn't right now. The average KR is about 10% lower on NightLight.
It's also only tracking about 15K games a MONTH. There's probably 15K games taking place an hour.
Actually no, you're looking at the last kill rate stats they released which are for a different time frame than the current Nightlight stats. You're comparing different time periods.
Stats wise 15k is a very good sample size for most data collections.
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If you actually get enough stacks for Dying Light to matter the games already over and you would have won regardless. It's a very bad perk.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024462#Comment_4024462
Ah, I just don't really trust NightLight to be a good representation of the millions of DBD games happening.
It's generally in the past tracked pretty close to BHVRs stats
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The healing meta has got more and more outa control while simultaneously nerfing all the anti heal killer perks. Realistically I think we want healing to be slow because it encourages split pressuring from a killer. If heals are all insanely fast as they are right now it discourages split pressuring since it isn't giving you as much pressure and encourages tunneling since you know just injuring them without downing and hooking them is meaningless.
Across the board healing perks need to be toned down while buffing many of the anti heal perks. Revert the Sloppy nerf. Gift of Pain is underwhelming from how bad scourge hook spawns are. I'm actually alright with where Deathbound is. Leverage is just very undertuned and the number needs to be wildly higher. Like We'll Make it is 100% and Leverage is 30%? Like what. Coulrophobia (and all TR perks in general) need like a 15 second lingering effect to be decent. No Quarter only targeting self heals is pointless, it needs to apply to all heals. Any killer addons that apply only Mangled or Hemorrhage need to be combined into one. No one runs these. The only ones we ever see get used even sometimes are addons where their effects are combined.
We also just need more anti heal perks in general. There's like 4 times as many heal perks as there are anti heal. Give some more variety.
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@Crowman said:
People who like Skull Merchant do not want Skull Merchant made into another projectile/dash killer. The PTB changes are good and honestly more should be done to keep her current identity. There's like 40 killers in the game now, you have options for dash and projectile killers.
^ Yeah this. I just want improved/buffed current skullmerchant, not more dashslop. I enjoyed her debuff/buff trap identity.
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I play more than 60 hours a week probably. It's too much I know.
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Realistically they should just be hidden better, but that's clearly not happening. We're literally still putting totem spawns next to gens and in open fields years later.
At this point just make hexes not light on the totems until at least 60+ seconds of being active. This would pseudo guarantee at least a minimum value.
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You're missing the third option which is PTB version but with a lot more buffs.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023696#Comment_4023696
Instead of buffing solo queue with some form of comms like a chatwheel, they buff survivors overall which buffs SWFs much more cause they can use all these basekit perks much more effectively.
Very few would complain about Solo Queue being brought closer to SWFs, the problem is theyre buffing survivors overall, and ALOT at that, OTR, Babysitter, Wicked all going basekit, ontop of some of their reworks being even better. (Babysitter and Wicked are insane now) and the AntiSlug is just hypertargetted at Twins/Oni while anti-camp screws Trapper over.
Its so simple what the game needs
Nerf Blight, Nurse
Add communications to Solo Queue
Fix Bugs
Add QoL
And after all that, check the state of the game and see what needs changes from here.Yeah I'd generally be in favor of all your ideas if we also add buffing all the low tier killers and balance the game around assuming comms.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023683#Comment_4023683
Queue times would definitely suffer from a tighter MMR system, but honestly, would you rather play a fair and balanced match against opponents of your own skill level, or would you rather have an unpredictable one-sided stomp?
I know comp has different rules, and limits in place for obvious balance purposes, and that it is mostly co-ordinated teams, using clock callouts, and there are only a certain few maps that comp is usually played on.Speaking of "throwing worse players in the mix", do you remember DBD before MMR?, and that some time during 2020 the ranks started becoming rainbows, almost every game, in conjunction with shorter queue times.
Before that point in time, ranks used to be fairly balanced in matches, and queues were ususally 1-3 minutes (on the faster side).
Maybe there were some testing behind the scenes going on at the time, to see if mixing ranks gives faster queues (which it certainly did).
Now, the old problems with queue times were present before the introduction of cross-play. Now that cross-play is a thing, the pool of players is a lot bigger, and thus should naturally reduce queue times.Yeah I joined back in 2016. I personally think matching was better back when it was by ranks.
"but honestly, would you rather play a fair and balanced match against opponents of your own skill level, or would you rather have an unpredictable one-sided stomp?"
Well as I mentioned earlier, idealistically yeah I'd rather accurate matches. However, I would not want accurate matching with the current games balancing since it's a complete trash show. The game isn't balanced for good vs good currently. It's balanced around players that don't know what they're doing. So "if" the game was balanced for good vs good then yeah I'd like accurate matchmaking, but we aren't even close to that. I'd be getting forced into "unfair" matches basically. All my matches would be against swf groups of which the game isn't balanced around.
"I know comp has different rules, and limits in place for obvious balance purposes, and that it is mostly co-ordinated teams, using clock callouts, and there are only a certain few maps that comp is usually played on."
And the reason they have to do this is because the game isn't balanced at the high levels, which is what accurate matchmaking at the moment, would force good players into, except without comps balancing rules.
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Basically.
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Yeah a lot of these changes just buff swf more.
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Yeah Beast is now a solid perk. It's the only thing making the bloodlust useful at all.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023398#Comment_4023398
So you are saying that the idea of changes to the bloodweb, matchmaking, maps, and the anti-bad-play measurements are not QoL, or healthy proposals?
Sorry I was being a bit hyperbolic with my statement as there were a lot of changes that I would not call QoL. However in regards to your ideas to bloodwebs, matchmaking, maps and anti-bad play they all sound good to me.
MMR is in a rough spot. Firstly as you mentioned, it doesn't take into account enough things. The other issue though is that while we would all like more accurate matching with MMR, we're in this awkward spot with balance and queue times where it almost has to match poorly. Last time it was tested to be more accurate we had significantly longer queue times. DBD is also balanced from the bottom up rather than the top down, so the balance at high level is a complete trash show, hence why there are many, many extra rules added in comp to illustrate this. By this I'm pointing out that the poorly accurate matchmaking works to cover up the bad balancing at high levels by throwing lots of worse players in the mix. In other words, in an ideal world where the game was actually balanced well, we would all like to only face players of equal skill, but the game isn't balanced for that. It would make for a miserable experience in high MMR matches. Not to mention the highest mmr people would not even see 95% of the killer roster.
If hypothetically the games were balanced for high mmr then yeah we could do this, but the majority of the community would not go for this, as being quite frank here, they're bad, and they want the game balanced for them. Personally balancing from the top down with nuance makes way more sense to me, but we can get into that conversation if you'd like.
I don't see any way of fixing the queue time issue though.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023517#Comment_4023517
They won't stop until every single killer players is a Blight, Nurse or Spirit main.
Yeah I mainly play low tier m1 killers and I really dislike running meta slow down perks but they just make all the other perk options so bad and the very few that existed are getting removed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023504#Comment_4023504
So Colorblind settings and different color scratchmarks are also not QoL?
"If" they allow better tracking than the red, then yeah not QoL. Although we're probably on such a close line with those changes since it's so minor that I could see an argument either way. Like for the auto recovery as an example, "technically" you'll probably have quite a few instances where it recovers faster than someone would have clicked the button, so that would be a "buff" but it's so minor that no one on killer would really notice it, so it gets classified as QoL. Same kind of thought on your examples. If it's a tangibly felt difference from the survivors perspective then I'd call it a buff instead of QoL.
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First the m1's lose Sloppy, then STBFL, then Monitor, now Furtive. Idk why we keep killing perks for m1 killers. We really just want everyone to stack 4 slow downs.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023398#Comment_4023398
That's not really true.
Visual TR was QoL but was a balance change.
That is a contradiction. The only way you can allow them to be simultaneously true is if you use a very loose interpretation of QoL. IE anything that makes me stronger feels good, so QoL guys! (referencing OP's ideas) While you "could" use that interpretation to make it possible to be simultaneously true, I think it's a bit disingenuous to the true way the vast majority of people use "QoL" as a term.
If it's affecting balance, it no longer gets the QoL classification. So visual TR isn't a QoL.
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None of this would be QoL though, these are massive balance changes. QoL doesn't buff either side, it's just feel good. Like the survivors auto recovering, that's QoL.
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@supersonic853 said:
Yeah them saying "we gave bloodlust" when its only 5% and its deactivated by so much as even going into shroud as ghostface. Just no bhvr.
Yeah monumental oversight.
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So for Syringe, we're removing the healing for a no counter play extra health state? So it's just a better old Styptic.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023096#Comment_4023096
The abandon looks appealing to them because a lot of the player base is entitled and don't care about anything but themselves. Not something I think should be catered to.
Then you don't want an end game abandon for killers?
Yeah that's literally what it's been since the games release
I'm talking about how abandons artifiically inflate personal survivor stats. It registers like free hatch even if you died. Neither the abandon nor the stats have been around that long.
Letting things be skippable just because people aren't interested in it is a bad metric that has a slippery slope or a lot of double standards.
Two things here. You're talking about things that are gameplay. There's still activity in the match even if it's activity you don't like. Last second saves and kills are possible. The mori is animation. Skipping animation is pretty normal in games. Nothing else can happen so I get skipping it. If they hadn't installed the finisher mori and survivors still had a chance of wiggling off than the abandon wouldn't be needed here, but they deicded to do this stupid ending thing and people should be able to skip it, even if I personally don't. It just shouldn't give them a free pass.
Second, idk if I'd call it a double standard because the power balance is quite skewed. Partially, it's because there's no viable killler bots. But it's also because scenarios where killers keep survivors trapped in hopeless matches are far, far more common than the opposite. Like you mentioned about a slugging, griefing smurf. That can and does happen, and those new survivors are totally powerless against someone like that, so I understand why they're adding the slugged-twice abandon option. That's an extreme scenario, but I've been left to bleed out for four minutes many times just for funsies. I just wish everything didn't count as null matches. There needs to be a distinction between an escape from a toxic player and just getting to the scoreboard faster.
This might make the killer just leave that other guy slugged even longer though unfortunately.
Which is where both a self pickup and a fast bleedout option in end game are needed, so survivors have a choice at all times, aside from just leaving the match entirely.
But someone like this isn't going to care if their opponent abandons or not. They get their kill either way.
"Then you don't want an end game abandon for killers?"
No, I don't think either should exist. I'd only push for the killer end game abandon if we're still keeping it in game so it's fair for both sides.
"I'm talking about how abandons artifiically inflate personal survivor stats. It registers like free hatch even if you died. Neither the abandon nor the stats have been around that long."
Only on the dbd website. Not the devs data.
"Two things here. You're talking about things that are gameplay. There's still activity in the match even if it's activity you don't like. Last second saves and kills are possible. The mori is animation. Skipping animation is pretty normal in games. Nothing else can happen so I get skipping it. If they hadn't installed the finisher mori and survivors still had a chance of wiggling off than the abandon wouldn't be needed here, but they deicded to do this stupid ending thing and people should be able to skip it, even if I personally don't. It just shouldn't give them a free pass. "
You gave the criteria of "not interesting", not whether it's interactive game play or not. I'd argue on average survivors waste significantly more time waiting at exit gates to tbag or be forcibly pushed out than they would watching a mori. This tells you it has absolutely nothing to with wasting time. They just want to gloat, but don't want the other side to be able to. Double standard. There's no game play standing at the exit portal tbagging where even if you're downed it pushes you out. Skipping animation in games IS normal againt NPC's. It is not normal in player vs player.
'Second, idk if I'd call it a double standard because the power balance is quite skewed."
Not sure what you mean by this.
" But it's also because scenarios where killers keep survivors trapped in hopeless matches are far, far more common than the opposite. "
Completely disagree. I literally cannot even remember the last time this has happened to me, and I play wayy more than the average player. This is probably more of a player playing bad which is their own fault rather than "getting trapped", which is a way of alleviating accountability.
'Like you mentioned about a slugging, griefing smurf. That can and does happen, and those new survivors are totally powerless against someone like that, so I understand why they're adding the slugged-twice abandon option."
This doesn't make sense. They are generally facing similar skilled killers if they're new and even if they were in this scenario (which is ridiculously rare mind you, even the dev stats show it), they are already able to abandon. Slugged twice abandon option is a ridiculous idea that makes no sense and is utterly unnecessary. It removes slugging as a strategy in game and makes all game play boringly linear.
"That's an extreme scenario, but I've been left to bleed out for four minutes many times just for funsies"
I haven't had this happen to me in even the past year of playing, and again I'm playing way more than most people. This isn't even an issue worth addressing.
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Stealth killers in dbd are generally all low tier as at the end of the day they're basic m1 killers who get looped. The "stealth" would normally counter some of this problem except swf exists. They just call you out every time. "He's heading your way!" "He's going shack!". This basically removes your stealth.
Tbh stealth killers in general could use some good buffs across the board.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023086#Comment_4023086
Slugging for the 4k is a constant occurrence in my survivor matches. If that's toxic (which I never really thought it was. Just crappy) then a lot of negative feelings have built up in people, so the abandon must look very appealing indeed. I don't know if I'd call a 4man slug toxic either. Again, its crappy, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen, and hopefully it soon won't with the upcoming changes. Toxic, to me, is BMIng, which the abandon feature currently does not help with.
It's like 5 seconds man, it's not a big deal. This is silly.
It's not a big deal but people skip them in almost every match they occur in, so they're clearly not interested. They're also mostly hideous. I no longer do them as killer. I don't want to watch them either. I'm saying they haven't helped the game, especially combined with the abandon.
I can't think of a single rational reason for them doing that.
I'm afraid the rationale may have been an unhealthy one. Stat-wise, anyone who makes it to the end can get free hatch the moment they hit the ground. It's starting to feel like a survivor stat consolation prize. It would be an easy enough fix to have the option show up maybe 30s after the last down.
"Slugging for the 4k is a constant occurrence in my survivor matches. If that's toxic (which I never really thought it was. Just crappy) then a lot of negative feelings have built up in people, so the abandon must look very appealing indeed. I don't know if I'd call a 4man slug toxic either. Again, its crappy, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen, and hopefully it soon won't with the upcoming changes. Toxic, to me, is BMIng, which the abandon feature currently does not help with."
I personally wouldn't call that toxic either, I'm more referencing that lots of people would. The abandon looks appealing to them because a lot of the player base is entitled and don't care about anything but themselves. Not something I think should be catered to.
"It's not a big deal but people skip them in almost every match they occur in, so they're clearly not interested. They're also mostly hideous. I no longer do them as killer. I don't want to watch them either. I'm saying they haven't helped the game, especially combined with the abandon. "
Well dang man there's a ton killers aren't interesting in that they have to sit through, should they be able to skip any of that stuff as well? Once the gates are powered and open I'm personally not interested in kills gained from whether or not they decide to be greedy and save, should I be able to skip all that. Letting things be skippable just because people aren't interested in it is a bad metric that has a slippery slope or a lot of double standards. We're currently sitting in the double stardards section. Survivors have abandon criteria for simply wanting to go next faster, but the killer doesn't have this. They expect the killer to sit through everything.
" It's starting to feel like a survivor stat consolation prize."
Yeah that's literally what it's been since the games release.
" It would be an easy enough fix to have the option show up maybe 30s after the last down."
This might make the killer just leave that other guy slugged even longer though unfortunately.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023015#Comment_4023015
I'm not defending the abandon button--I actually hate it in its current application and I don't use it, but not only does the quantity of those 30s endings matter, it's the quality. If someone is slugged for the 4k and is left powerless and unable to act on the ground, the killer isn't showing good sportmsahip. So why should the survivors? That's not all ending scenarios, but it's a lot of them, and even when it isn't, people are fed up and want to move on. Good sportsmanship isn't in a good place right now in DbD.
It's also really boring to watch these tired moris over and over and over again. The finisher mori has made the game painfully repetitive. I can understand why people are over it. And the abandon should be just a skip animation button instead of an MMR toss-out.
"If someone is slugged for the 4k and is left powerless and unable to act on the ground, the killer isn't showing good sportmsahip. So why should the survivors?
This is an irrelevant statement as I already said that it's fine for preventing toxicity, aka the scenario you're describing. That isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about normal matches. In normal matches the time for the killer to simply hook the final survivor or two is not significant enough to warrant allowing abandoning for.
"It's also really boring to watch these tired moris over and over and over again. The finisher mori has made the game painfully repetitive. I can understand why people are over it. And the abandon should be just a skip animation button instead of an MMR toss-out. "
It's like 5 seconds man, it's not a big deal. This is silly.
I do agree that abandon shouldn't be an MMR toss out though, that makes no sense that it does that. I can't think of a single rational reason for them doing that.
I'm completely fine with abandon for getting out of toxicity. I'm just not fine with it for go next faster. I don't think it's sportsmanlike and harms the integrity of the game.
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@Crowman said:
The update is very flawed and there's several reasons for it.
Camping changes. These are not necessarily. They kept talking about facecamping in the stream, but facecamping has been dead as a strategy. They are targetting this at "proxy camping" which is honestly stupid. There are many reasons a killer may be within 20 meters of a hook some of them being maps like game or RPD where existing on the map is too close to a hook. It's basically the devs trying to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist.
Slugging changes. I do not why we are so obsessed with giving survivors permanent unbreakable. If the thing we want to fix are situations where the killer is slugging multiple survivors, then the better solution is giving slugged survivors the ability to pick each other up. All granting survivors unbreakable does is give less reason for survivors to pick each other up and play as a team. Not to mention that realistically a 4 man slug only happens if survivors massively misplay.
Tunneling changes. Adding buffs to unhook survivors that give them a better chance to hide immediately off hook. This is actually a good change. Aura reading of the killer and 30 seconds of endurance are more problematic. Survivors have historically used defensive buffs offensively. I do think some matter of endurance is needed off hook so survivors can't immediately be put back into dying state before they had a chance to even more their character. Then if we want killers to tunnel less we need to give out actual incentives that are stronger than just putting the same survivor on hook repeatedly. Bloodlust 1 and some bloodpoints are a joke and will not change that the best play is to get someone out of the game ASAP.
Agree. This sums it up pretty well.
At most the slugging change should require recovery and another survivor. Even then, we already can abandon very easily if the killer is slugging so I don't see how slugging even needs to be addressed anymore. Furthermore, why are we addressing something in 4% of games? Their own stats show it is not an issue. I also don't understand how they don't see that this change will make survivors just leave any teammates on the ground. Like if I'm pumping a gen and a teammate gets slugged, why on earth would I ever go pick him up? I'm just gonna stay sitting on the gen. Why would I get off when I know he can just pick himself up. This game is supposed to be a team game.
They even showed the Endurance being used offensively in their demonstration of the changes rofl.
Bloodlust 1 is a joke. This looks to killers how it looks to employees when their boss throws them a pizza party for doing so well. It's nearly insulting. This isn't even getting into the more than half the roster that aren't top tier at all but will have the bloodlust turned off immediately from their power rendering this "buff" useless. Or how about the multiple killers that are designed around slugging..but were not changed at all to compensate and just left out to dry. Twins, Oni, Onryo just to get us started.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023015#Comment_4023015
However, realistically now abandoning has been allowed in so many scenarios that it's no longer for toxicity, it's just a "go next faster" button. This would be like me having a soccer game and as soon as there's like 10 minutes left in the game but my team is too far behind to win, instead of finishing the match out with good sportsmanship and shaking hands we just instantly walk off the field and head home mid match. It's just unsportsmanlike and would honestly be childish behavior..and that's how the game'sactuallydesigned. Just mind blowing to me. Finishing the dbd match out would cost them an extra like 30 seconds…we're not talking a long time here.I don't want to sidetrack too much from the all important topic of telling BHVR none of us have any idea what they are talking about, but I'll also always defend the idea of a "go next faster" button being a good idea (in terms of mind blowing I've always been stunned how long it took them to get to it).
Soccer Example - In this scenario, you're still playing soccer. Whether the game is 20 to 0 or tied, you're still playing the game.
In DbD you're lying on the ground. There's really no game you are playing. The survivor has probably picked up their cell phone or alt tabbed to something else. There's nothing substantively different between it being a human at the computer, one who has gone to the bathroom, or a bot.
Counter Example - A good example to me is from American Football and the NFL. When a team scores a touchdown, they then get to kick an extra point or go for two. However (as of 2018), if the touchdown is scored after time has expired, and the extra point is meaningless (i.e. the game is now 20 to 7), it doesn't happen.
Even outside those extremes, in most sports the team that is winning tries to get the game over as quickly as possible (kneeling on the ball in American football, throwing the ball around in basketball, etc.) Better to speed up pointless things and move on.
Sportsmanship - My most recent sporting activity was an adult, indoor soccer league. If it became clear that the teams were extremely mismatched, we usually called the game, and traded players around. Having a balanced, enjoyable game was far more important than sticking out something that was one sided. If I'm winning a game, especially by a lot, I usually feel pretty embarrassed and bad and am just hoping for it to end as quickly as possible.
It's also worth noting there are many sports and leagues that do have mercy rules (which outside of professional play are generally good ideas). If the rules say 'here is when the game is or can be over', its not bad sportsmanship to recognize that.
An extra 30 seconds - Over thousands and thousands of games that many people will end up playing, it adds up. But there's a couple of other game design factors
1: It makes the end of the game boring. From a design perspective the best games have exciting ends (the last kill in team death match, a hectic fight over a control point, trying to push the cart a few more inches as time ticks down). DbD has too many times were the game just ends on an incredibly dull note.
2: It probably harms player retention. Ideally BHVR should want players to end a game, and think about getting right back into the next one. I know in the past when I was lying on the ground I wasn't getting excited for another game, I was probably thinking about what else I can do.
30 seconds is not harming player retention. Also, if we want to compare with your example of ending the game faster that isn't quite comparable because we aren't talking about kneeling and getting the game over faster, we're talking about you immediately walking off the field, no hands shook, no gg, just insta dipping. If using your examples we didn't just kneel but they immediately just walked off the field and exited the stadium that would be very different.
If the exit gate is open can we make it so killer can just immediately abandon to accept defeat? Same jist but I would also think this would be stupid. It's unsportsmanlike. I think the killer should have to ride out the end as well.
How is it fair that they've all abandoned and I'm only in the game with bots that I'm forced to finish out the game and can't leave to claim my win or the games not counted? Why is the killer forced to be the janitor and clean up? The games over after all. This is a double standard.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023007#Comment_4023007
Didn´t thought about that…
Holy loophole of hell
For sure, idk why no one seems to care about this. It's allowed perpetual smurfing and bullying of players by game design. It's not just slugging either, you could apply this same scenario to any time the killer is allowed to abandon.
The core flaw in this design that's causing the problem is making a killer abandon a "neutral" rather than a "win". All of the criteria for when a killer is allowed to abandon is basically when he's only won. Like when all the remaining survivors are bots I'm not allowed to abandon and leave or it doesn't count as a win for me, even though it should be. Like the games already "over" at that point, which is why the survivors are allowed to leave early, but some reason that same rational doesn't apply to letting the killer leave or he's punished? Lol just what. Makes ZERO sense and makes the system feel very bias. So the normal killer player gets punished unless he plays janitor after the games over and the toxic killer is allowed to smurf all he wants and continue the toxicity.
Since there's no scenario where the killer can abandon unless he's already basically won, just make his abandon count as "wins"(because they are) instead of "neutral"(aka no mmr impact). This solves the entire problem. Now it doesn't punish normal killer and doesn't enable toxic ones.
I do find the abandon system flawed at concept though to be honest. Like it made sense when it was a tool to get out of "toxic" matches. That I completely understand and sounds good. However, realistically now abandoning has been allowed in so many scenarios that it's no longer for toxicity, it's just a "go next faster" button. This would be like me having a soccer game and as soon as there's like 10 minutes left in the game but my team is too far behind to win, instead of finishing the match out with good sportsmanship and shaking hands we just instantly walk off the field and head home mid match. It's just unsportsmanlike and would honestly be childish behavior..and that's how the game's actually designed. Just mind blowing to me. Finishing the dbd match out would cost them an extra like 30 seconds…we're not talking a long time here.
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What's even worse about it is that when the killers allowed to abandon it doesn't give him the MMR win. So hypothetically if i was to just spam 4 man slug every single game, the survivors will abandon, then I would abandon. This would allow me to perpetually smurf and never raise my MMR to keep doing it over and over to the newer players. The abandon system has caused many problems.
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They don't need mobility to be good, they just haven't been designing those non mobility killers in a way needed to compensate for that mobility.
Mobility is map pressure and slow down. You basically just need your non mobility killer to have something similar to Pig traps. IE a secondary objective. The only reason this doesn't work for Pig is because she's just bad. Her traps were the right idea, just not tuned high enough.
So let's say you were trying to compensate for that mobility on someone like Trickster. What do you do? Reduce his TR, this shortens chase time and increases pressure. Make it so the daggers he lands stay in until they're slowly pulled out. This again either shortens chases or slows down gens as now they waste time pulling knives out. He lacks time efficiency from pre running. This is because maps in general give too much info and you can see the killer coming too early, this incentivizes pre running. Give more LoS blockers on maps.
The general point here is you can make up for mobility if the killer is designed in a way that shortens chase times and gives secondary objectives to waste survivors time (this is the big one). This stuff can be accomplished in multiples ways. This stuff generally hasn't succeeded so far because they're undertuned.
It's all just TIME. Mobility gives TIME. Shortening chases or making survivors do secondary objectives gives TIME. Currently mobility killers are just getting way more TIME from their mobility than the games secondary objective killers get from theirs.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022478#Comment_4022478
I'm sort of confused what the point is then?
Why give players stats that aren't an accurate reflection of how the game works? A player's displayed killrate on the stats website seems null and void to me if the game (like MMR) operates off of different numbers.
Literally this.
None of this makes sense why we even have it then if it’s designed to be completely inaccurate data. It’s just intentionally misleading.
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Bro that is wild that they aren’t counted. On killer like 90% of my matches have survivor abandons since it’s basically just a go next faster feature at this point. So nearly all my matches aren’t even counted lol. This is ridiculous. This makes the stats utterly worthless.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022217#Comment_4022217
The fact that just hooking a survivor back to back is considered tunneling is certainly inflating the stats. Especially when there's so many reasons why a survivor might end up on hook back to back without the killer tunneling.
Exactly. And that’s just one of multiple other bad criteria that were being used.
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Them giving a roughly 40% “tunnel” rate tells me they consider way, way, way more things tunneling than are “actually” tunneling. Real tunneling does not happen even remotely close to that number whatsoever. 40% is just factual wrong. By a lot.
I assume to get this number they had to use criteria from the last PTB that were being considered tunneling. Of which most of them were not.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022018#Comment_4022018
It getting louder certainly does
Not always. There are many times it will get louder and he's not actually heading towards you, just getting closer.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4022020#Comment_4022020
I think it did worked as antiloop and told you.
Whether he was on one side of the loop or the other the perk isn't telling you his location since he could be looking at you from either spot.