Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021953#Comment_4021953
I dont think this will cut it, the second version with showing killers distance from you was also busted in loops where you could just look at it and see if the killer is doing some mindgame or not because the perks showed you how far killer was even throught walls so not only undetecteable killers got robed but killers trying to pull mindgames at loops like shack or jungle gyms, TL walls with hiding red light and trying to go around got countered too.
First version was working with resilience which was just 50% weaker than finnes which has 30% faster vault so you got 15% every time you were injured and killer was looking at your direction which is normal in chase.
It didn't ever show distance other than the max distance to trigger. It didn't work for anti loop, not talking about the action buff anyway. You could fenagil some high brain catching if he's walking backwards stuff but now we're talking plays that 99.9% of people were not using.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021953#Comment_4021953
But changing the effect in that way still makes it a useless perk, you can already tell if a non-undetectable killer is coming towards you via the terror radius
TR doesn't necessarily mean they're coming towards where you're at.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021924#Comment_4021924
I mean, yeah. Multiple perks released with such awful numbers (All-Shaking Thunder, Haywire, Phantom Fear, Unbound, Dark Arrogance, Dominance, ect.)
To the topic, there are some better perks we recieved, but there is no denying that Krasue released with a triple meh.
Ravenous has the same issue as Grim Embrace had, plus being fully countered by staying injured or prerunning.
Wandering Eye is weird. I am wondering if they made it for Nurse and maybe Plague?
And the Hex is kind of mid, too. We got a way better version not long ago - Unforseen.
And most of these aren't flawed at design, it's just numbers. Excessively and unnecessarily long cooldowns, laughably low durations, downsides that have no reason to exist given their power level ect.
Ravenous requiring 4 unique hooks for only 60 seconds of Exposed is garbage. You can easily avoid them for the duration and if they're injured you just wasted the whole perk slot. Either needs a much longer duration, some seconds of aura when it activates, or maybe it also causes anyone injured when it triggers to also become broken for 60 seconds as well.
Wandering Eye either needs a significantly larger radius or making it show survivors outside X meters instead of inside. I personally like the outside X meters version a lot better. I've tried to make this perk work, it's just bad.
The hex is so bad. It could literally sit on a gen they never even touch and do nothing or they cleanse it before that gens touched. For a perk to be a hex the power level needs to be significantly higher and immediately impactful. I'd probably make it apply to at least 2 gens instead of just 1, maybe even 3. Most hex perks in general are just too high risk for too low reward. They need either lower risk or higher power for a lot of them.
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I don't personally do this. However, just as much as it looks bad on that killer wanting that mori, it's also that last survivor dragging it out since he wants that escape. While both feel entitled, at least the killer one was more or less earned.
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What we were asking back then was to just make it not work if the killer is Undetectable so it doesn't gut stealth killers who are already weak to begin with.
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Zero map pressure and he gets pre ran with hold W painfully. You also get absolutely nothing but wasted time if you don't injure with the knives since they drain. Similar issue as Unknown. TTK is very slow.
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Yeah the new killer perk releases have been unusably bad for a long time now. It's not even their design, it's just that their numbers are way too safe. This isn't even developer time to fix, it's just number tweaks. For how many wildly bad perks there are we should be seeing at minimum like 10 perks on each side getting huge buffs on every patch. As with the recent perks, most these are just number tweaks again, so "time" shouldn't be a factor.
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JC is always great at voicing what the community is thinking. Good video. Just referencing the points made, not the tad aggressiveness.
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There are a ton of perks at that level of complete worthlessness.
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In an ideal world many of us would like that. However, that's not the game the developers have made. Instead of putting this onus on killers it should be on them. People would be significantly more inclined to be happy about hooks over kills if that's what the game was balanced around, it was rewarded, and you were scored for MMR from that. That just isn't the case unfortunately. Pitch this to the developers, not the killers.
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It feels like they want everyone to play in one specific way and how they want them to. Every alternative play style or strategy is slowly removed. This runs counter intuitive to a design philosophy of "chaos". Most all changes they've made over the years have run contradictory to this philosophy. It makes matches more and more stale.
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The buffs she got were pitiful. They really didn't need to nerf anything. She needs a lot more.
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@Mandy said:
Using the different tiers of Bloodlust is something that has been discussed, in the PTB we'll test out T1 and see where we're at, so many changes can be made before things go Live so will definitely be looking out for the feedback around it.
What about the long list of killers that aren't top tier that have abilities that will negate this bloodlust entirely? Onryo for just one example. You're almost always teleporting as soon as you hook so she would never see this benefit at all. There are many other killers with the same issue that would get no value from bloodlust on hook regardless of the final number adjustments of it.
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Myers is just there because it's halloween time and everyone's checking out the changes.
Krasue I saw once in 12 hours of playing. She's like dropped off the radar for me.
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This would be very cool. I wish they'd get a lot more creative with verticality in maps. Have a map with less horizontal and have like 4 levels to it.
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Normally in most cases the best is to push gens over healing. That said, we've been in a crazy heal meta. Most matches have stacked heals making healing ridiculously fast and there's basically no counter play to this on killer side. Most the anti heal perks are trash atm. So with how crazy heal speeds are right now the few seconds is usually worth it. This is all situational though.
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On top of that, I understand bloodlust over haste to not work with powers like Blight, Spirit, ect ect. However, there are many killers with powers that will deactivate the bloodlust that are low tier. Like this bloodlust is completely worthless to me on Onryo, regardless of what number it is. I'll be teleporting as soon as I hook, deactivating it instantly... The slug changes are also gutting the many "slug oriented" killers without any compensation to their kits. They should all be getting large changes along with this nerf to slugging. Pop also affects killers very differently. Way more useful on already strong high mobility killers. I also detest gen kick builds, which is why I like running Surge. Pop built in now forces me to always be kicking.
There's so many angles that these changes are affecting that were not adjusted for.
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Is MMR very flawed? Yes
Does that mean MMR means nothing and high mmr doesn't exist realistically? No
MMR can be extremely flawed and need fixing (we agree) and it still mean something. The only times I find peoples disbelief in "high mmr" is when they can't get themselves there. That's fine, but I find those times to be coping with not being able to get there themselves.
You will get lots of random bad players against you even in high mmr but you will still face lots of high mmr players that lower mmr players are not. If you watch someones matches at low or even average mmr and then someones at high mmr, the matches are very different, even with outliers existing.
The average dbd player is very bad, so the theme of "high mmr doesn't exist" is very appealing to many of those players. It validates their opinions more.
I completely understand that people using "if you played at high mmr you'd understand" is a very annoying phrase for people to hear, but it's honestly reality. There are many things that are only issues at high mmr that many will never experience if they aren't there to understand why they're a problem.
While true that we can't actually "see" our mmr's, you can assume you're high mmr with a greater than 90% winrate across hundreds and hundreds of games. There comes a point in tracking your win rates that you can guesstimate.
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Their wording tells me that even if they decided to, it's wayy off.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020036#Comment_4020036
Not exactly a fan of how OP is framing these changes but it feels like nobody knows what QOL means anymore. (Not even the Developers if you count the Pallet Density "QOL" changes)
The only upcoming change that I'd say is in the category of QOL is being able to see the Resolve bar on the HUD. The rest are just straight buffs.
I'm not really against these buffs either, but please call it what it is.
Technically that isn't QoL either. Showing the resolve bar on the hud gives the entire team the info that the killer is near the hook. It's basically a base kit weak Kindred. Definitely not QoL.
QoL is supposed to be a "feel good" change that isn't impacting balance for either side. An example would be the auto recovery on ground, that would be a QoL, since for killer you wouldn't even notice this. It's just a feel good convenience for survivor, not a buff.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019819#Comment_4019819
No problem! I honestly thought the fresh hook incentives for extra BBQ and baseline pop would have helped me alot with my chase builds (it's how I have the most fun playing killer), to give me a bit more breathing room.
Maybe they'll re add them in the PTB if they feel the incentives aren't enough.Yeah I’d like if they reintroduced that base gen slow down and then nerfed a lot of the gen slow perks accordingly
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Honestly I didn’t really notice them that much at first since they do it so subtle. When I really started to notice them was when I was on survivor after dying and I’d spectate my teammates and you’ll see them snap the speed on for a split second when they round corners and think no one can see them.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019816#Comment_4019816
Oh I apologise, it's not my words I just remember an interview from this years anniversary about it, so take it with a grain of salt lol
Mainly just a lot of focus on Killer updates, making events more friendly for killers, things like the mori finisher system among other QoL. Haddonfield among other killer sided map changes like Borgo and Coldwind
I'm not saying it "fixed" killer issues, just they said it was a focus.Ah okay if it was just a reference to them saying it and not actually doing anything then that’s fair. I don’t personally remember if they did or didn’t say that. I can’t think of anything tangible that made the experience any better for killers last year other than a couple QoL at best, nothing in terms of balance.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I think they mentioned at the anniversary they were taking this year to really look into survivor QoL in an interview no? Much like how last year Killer was a huge focus, so I'm guessing it's tied to that.
Or I'm misremembering. They also probably get plenty of feedback with how vocal the Killer community is via content creation.
It could just be they already feel they have all the data on killer side they want rn and are choosing to tackle more pressing health issues the game has. Like none of my friends want to play DBD on survivor side anymore who play very casually and I feel like thats a huge red flag when it comes to multiplayer games I've enjoyed in the past.
When all the casual players are gone for the most part, what are you left with? Lots of experienced players and a more miserable killer experience.
At least that's my two cents.There was no killer focus at all last year, which changes are you referring to?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HFU7WB8J1CTX/image.png
The survey questions were rigged to be survivor sided, so the data is invalid.
We have multiple choices that only apply to survivors, by zero choices that only apply to killers. Of course, complaints about killer strategies are going to be the most popular results, if the questions are rigged like this.
That survey is just wild. It’s putting a survey out with only the options you want and then using the survey as the rational for why the things you wanted to do in the first place are a good idea lol.
It’s like, do you agree with me?
1. Yes2. Yes
Results: The majority of the people answered yes they agree with me so I was right
And honestly even if the survey was done correctly the proportion of survivor to killer players isn’t the same so the results will always be skewed.
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Based on how they phrased the changes about potentially keeping them if people like it that tells they are back at square one on her changes. IE even if she was hypothetically to get a rework, it’s WAY off from any time remotely soon. Other than tweaks it seems she’s gonna be in this form for quite a while.
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Yeah Cut Loose and million other perks as well. The majority of perks on both sides are extremely bad. It’s why we have no perk diversity, most are just bad. We need to be seeing like 10 perks on each side with big buffs on every single patch.
Even when we look back on many perk buffs they’ve done on previous patches, most of them accomplished nothing. The vast majority of the buffs were so soft handed that it took perks from being terrible, to slightly less terrible, but still terrible. Most those perks they buffed still aren’t used any more than they were before bar a few exceptions.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019424#Comment_4019424
Part off the reason for this is because they removed any downsides to actually tunneling.
And, for the record, there is no buff "for not tunneling", it's simply just a buff.
There's nothing in the extra haste that requires you to chase anyone else, and it's fully compatible with getting back to hook faster and chasing the person off hook in a tunneling situation also.
Yeah it should have been more carrot not stick to begin with.
That’s true you could just call it a buff in general, but we can also say that about the anti tunnel/camp/slug features as well and those I would call drastically more significant. I’d personally have made the “buff” require not tunneling rather than passive as they did. So harder to actually take advantage of for the killer basically but with “actual” incentive.
While I agree they could use it to come back hypothetically, the changes in total make tunneling/camping significantly more difficult than the current state, even if they did try to do that.
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Yeah the buff for not tunneling looks pretty worthless to me. I don’t see it having much of an impact on anything.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018694#Comment_4018694
Yea, except the game has already been thrown out, so it's not a loss? I think?
we have no idea lol
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@VadersRage6 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019205#Comment_4019205
Try OSS report and footprint cast if your hitting a decent amount of shots like just regular weakens the amount of tps you can place plus the lowered cooldown feels really good and my most used addon combo
Yeah that’s actually the main addon combo I use
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@VadersRage6 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019181#Comment_4019181
That's what I meant by frustration unfortunately the big reason alot people don't play them unlike me and other Unknown mains but that's why I want changes to make them more accessible to others but still make them have that skill ceiling etc cause the potential with this killer is high when you put in the effort
Yeah I agree with you there. He feels extremely punishing for new or average players when so many other killers can accomplish the same thing with way less work.
I’m a little biased in favor of hit and run split pressure type killers and I don’t really care for anti loops ones. So that’s why I’d prefer the more teleporting and debuff slowly refreshing its duration if not completely removed. This would give them a more viable hit and run bouncing around the map. His current teleport cooldown feels too long for this to be done properly.
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Unknown is one of those killers I really want to like as they’re thematically very cool but feels bad in practice. They feel like the poster child for “high risk/high skill/low reward”. To me they’re way too punishing for what pay off you get and how difficult the hits are in the first place.
The debuff needs to be more difficult to remove. You have this small time window to score a second skilled hit in a row or the first one was meaningless. Whether that’s just more time to remove, narrowing the vision detection on removing it, or maybe if it’s not fully removed it slowly refills. Something.
His teleport cooldown could be reduced dramatically. Like even cutting its cooldown in half would not make this killer op for as dramatic as that sounds.
His addons are dog water. So many of them are extremely mediocre. Needs a pass improving a lot of them.
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With the wild amount of busted maps that need reworking I don’t understand why we’re touching auto haven of all maps. Feels like very odd priorities.
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They’re going in the right direction, but I don’t really understand what the bloodlust on fresh hook is expected to accomplish. That does basically nothing as far as incentives go for getting someone not to tunnel. An incentive for someone not to tunnel is like a 20% pain res on each of those hooks. That’s actually relevant. A little bloodlust till chase starts feels on the verge of placebo.
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I’d probably agree with most people on Wesker. Strong but fair.
A tier is generally where I’d see the most balanced killers at. S tiers usually lack enough counter play and anything B tier any below have too much counter play. A tier is usually the sweet spot for strong but not too strong.
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It's a rough double edged sword with matchmaking. We all "want" equal skilled matching at face value and in an idealistic world. However, the issue is that DBD is not balanced at all at the top end. By top end I also don't mean like 1%, I mean like even top 20%. So the matchmaking is almost required to be intentionally bad in order to cover up that "imbalance". IE if all the good players were always facing all the good players it would be a terrible experience, both in fun but also because of how bad the balance is at that level. The game is not balanced for them, it's balanced for like the bottom 30% of players who don't know what they're doing. This type of balance is what causes said issues at the top end.
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Yeah this sounds like terrible design. This would completely destroy the accuracy of the data.
So if when the last survivor abandons as soon as I down them ALL of those games are thrown out for mmr? That's nearly every single match now since the abandon system is basically a "go next faster" button. No one hardly ever waits the end out anymore. This would make my mmr basically never move, even if I'm winning.
Also if you abandon as killer after it's only bots left because they all abandoned, it shows them as escaping in end game screen. So on DBD data these would all be "losses" unless I finish out every game against bots?
This abandon system is a mess.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018499#Comment_4018499
You're right about Removing them being bad, though both votes should definitely be made no longer anonymous if Downvotes are gonna stick around.
I'd be fine with that personally.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018375#Comment_4018375
I would say that comes down to being informed on how the game actually works, which isn't the greatest mindset, since naturally low hour players won't understand that survivor is actually better than killer and has been since the game released. Specific killers are problematic, but for the most part all non top 5 killers should be getting outed on paper. The stats are overinflated since Abandoning doesn't count a match towards personal and collective stats. Killer isn't actually better, its just that there are far more survivor players that are inexperienced compared to competent and decent survivors, leading to MMR and killer struggling alot with chases, plus the already ridiculous gen speeds possible. When a new player starts, killer is more easy to play then survivor, most new players will be scared to do anything, leaving you to just find them and kill them with no gens being done.
I should've said it before, but you should also be able to see what posts a user has downvoted or upvoted on their profile, that way you can quickly scan them for lack of worded thoughts and bias, and disregard them for misusing the forums.
Expressing your opinion without engaging is fine if the topic is super broad like "Revert the Pallet Density Update" or something, since its kindof a yes or no sorta post, theres really only 2 stances you can have, so a quick response through voting is warranted and justified. When it's a massive post talking about adding Anti Slug and Anti Tunnel, created by the devs, and people are out here downvoting these massive topics without actually saying what they think is wrong is exactly my problem. Downvoting without explaining doesn't help the OP, and if you keep doing this, you should be disregarded and ignored, since you are just refusing to participate in the Forum at that point.
I don't feel like you really addressed my points about why removing downvotes is bad though.
Also, generally speaking everybody tends to think they know the game best and anyone disagreeing just doesn't understand it. We all think we know how the game actually works lol. Tends to be human nature I find.
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Without downvotes, upvotes are meaningless. The context of seeing both is what gives value to upvotes.
A lot of your points against downvotes are around the presumption of "bias" which you cannot actually know. Like just because someone upvotes a lot of posts that want survivor buffs does that make them now survivor bias? No, it does not, it could be just that they literally just logically think survivors need more help at the moment. "Bias" entails an "unfair" preference, of which you cannot know.
By your use of "bias" essentially anyone that's not a fence sitter on every single topic is now "bias" is whichever direction.
Also, downvotes allow people to express their opinion without engaging. If I hypothetically disagree with a topic but I can see most people posting are irrational, should I be forced to have a conversation with irrational people to express my opinion? I don't think so. Trying to rationalize with someone that's irrational sounds painful.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459072/krasue-infection-clear-from-hooking
"Just asking for something to still prevent that person from getting tunneled off hook from infection, but still require them to need a mushroom to cleanse the infection when unhooked"
1.Maybe recently unhooked survivors (60 seconds maybe?) can only be damaged by head form if they are in Tier 2 of Leeched. Once that time passes or they make a conspicuous action they can be damaged by the head form in Tier 1.
2.Or you could just make it so survivors lose the Leeched status when downed rather than when hooked. She is strong enough to get a nerf rather than a sidegrade.
1 could potentially work if it was zero collision instead so they can't use that to body block.
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Firstly, scrap the aura reading and the haste. They affect different killers vastly differently.
Second, swap the base kit Pop for base kit Pain Res. Again, Pop is significantly more or less useful depending what killer, while Pain Res is affecting them all mostly equally.
Third, bump up that base kit Pain Res % significantly since we're removing the aura and haste. Aura and haste base can feeling cheesy to face, regression instead just makes up for forcing the killer to play non efficient.
Fourth, scrap the slug nonsense entirely. We already are able to abandon (and win when abandoning for whatever wild reason that's baffling) when 4 slugged.
Fifth, "When a Survivor dies to a hook action or Mori before 6 total hook states, the remaining Survivors gain a 25% repair speed bonus." needs to be toned down to dying before 4 hooks and not apply to any killer powers like Onryo, Pig, ect.
Sixth, "When a Survivor that was previously hooked is Killed or Sacrificed, the Killer loses the ability to block, damage, or regress generators by any means." Needs to be 3 in a row, not 2.
The issue was less the concept and more that it was way, way overkill on the killer while being significantly more strict than it should be. Rather than being "anti tunnel or camp" it was "anti momentum".
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Why over complicate it though?
The reason people still dc so much is because it's too lenient. Just needs to be stricter.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017839#Comment_4017839
But difference between Wesker and Krasue is that Wesker's full infection grants him ability to instadown and catch up, while also have limited cleanses per game. Krasue infects immidiately to what she needs, thus she has unlimited fungus per game, which makes sense. I feel that people overrated Krasue a lot, as I saw some survivors spinning her head form and 50/50 so well that she eventually just dcd.
Yeah so far I feel like people are vastly overrating her strength.
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Drop-Leg Knife Sheath base kit.
M1's only remove a percentage of their stalk.
Harder to break him out.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459072/krasue-infection-clear-from-hooking
You mean something like Wesker? The issue with that is that even minimum leeched makes you vulnerable against whip same as if you were leeched 2. I posted recently about making her infection and cleanse both more meaningful with cleansing being faster and fully infection trigger faster. There should be one more nerf to Krasue due to Otz and I hope it will be to cleanse rate as her whip and vaults are in decent balance-wise spot and don't need further nerfs. And main issue, infection of hook was also solved.
Yeah essentially my goal is to accomplish something similar to Weskers change, you have the idea. As you mentioned though this doesn't quite work the same way for Krasue. Any ideas how we could accomplish this?
I saw your ideas with faster infection but faster cleanse, I'd be down for this as well. Different issue than this post though.
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@Ohyakno said:
All of the best killer perks in the game require hooks in order to proc. Maybe krasue has the pressure to keep everyone slugged all the time but I doubt it. Feels like a risky proposition.
Haven't lost a game playing like this yet, so it seems to work well so far.
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@random1543 said:
It feels like the wrong play because they were overturned to begin with and you go used to that kit.
but if they where to add it back to hooked survivors mushrooms need to be instantly cleansing (as soon as the animation to eat is done the status effect is removed) would be the only way to allow them to carry over into hook states."It feels like the wrong play because they were overturned to begin with and you go used to that kit."
Actually no, I never played her before the nerfs. Just analyzing her current version.
"but if they where to add it back to hooked survivors mushrooms need to be instantly cleansing (as soon as the animation to eat is done the status effect is removed) would be the only way to allow them to carry over into hook states. "
This seems like a completely random change. This post isn't about nerfs/buffs, it's wanting a side grade that encourages hooking, which is what survivors want.
I'm trying to reach out here for changes to encourage the play style survivors would want. If people really hate this I'll just continue my slug play style since it's more optimal. This was an attempt at changes for the survivors benefit.