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Blueberry
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729244#Comment_1729244
Well let's agree to disagree then. I think the vault build is crazy strong in the hands of a good player. I equate it to going into a game with light amour. You will be super hard to catch, but easy to kill once you go down. Where-as running the BT/DS/Unbreakable/DH combo is like going in with heavy amour. Easier to catch, but hard to actually kill off.
"Top tier players don't heal" and they only get away with that against bad killers. People who don't heal in my games usually die fast when I am the killer. Not healing against me when I am playing a killer like spirit / hag / wraith / ghostface / etc is a death sentence. You can try to get away with it if you want, at your own risk.
""Top tier players don't heal" and they only get away with that against bad killers. People who don't heal in my games usually die fast when I am the killer. Not healing against me when I am playing a killer like spirit / hag / wraith / ghostface / etc is a death sentence. You can try to get away with it if you want, at your own risk."
They get away with it against good killers as well. Most survivors are just bad on average, your comment about them not getting away with it against you is using the average survivor you face, not top tier survivors.
We can agree to disagree though.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729196#Comment_1729196
"The only time it's not working is player error."
I'm sorry but thats wrong. I and many people on the forum can attest to this that it does not work 100% of the time and it not player error but an error with the servers.
"That said, even it wasn't 100% of the time that is irrelevant. That wouldn't change my point being accurate at all."
Actually it does change your point from being accurate. You claim that using dead hard doesn't produce a losing situation but logically speaking if something in the game doesn't work when its supposed to it creates a losing situation, which dead hard can produce that situation. Thus your claim is still hyperbolic.
"I could see that argument if it was substantial enough to matter in the chase. However, it's not. The effect is near placebo it's so small."
Thats not what were arguing though. We are taking about dear hard and resilience not having downsides even when injured, not how substantial of an impact it makes. Based on what was previously said it could still both dead hard and resilience are comparable.
"I'm sorry but thats wrong. I and many people on the forum can attest to this that it does not work 100% of the time and it not player error but an error with the servers."
Server ping only matters when you are attempting to use it for an invulnerability frame. If you use it for simply distance you don't have any errors related to server ping.
"Actually it does change your point from being accurate. You claim that using dead hard doesn't produce a losing situation but logically speaking if something in the game doesn't work when its supposed to it creates a losing situation, which dead hard can produce that situation. Thus your claim is still hyperbolic."
Something not working sometimes isn't "creating a losing situation". That's a misuse of the phrase. My claim only comes off as hyperbolic when you misunderstand terminology and proper use of the perk.
"Thats not what were arguing though. We are taking about dear hard and resilience not having downsides even when injured, not how substantial of an impact it makes. Based on what was previously said it could still both dead hard and resilience are comparable."
The potential impact of the perk is important because it determines the need for "downsides", which is part of the conversation. DH's "downside" that you use as being injured is negated by its effect meaning it negates its own negative. Resilience doesn't negate its negative so it still retains the downside. That's why they aren't comparable.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729219#Comment_1729219
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SRSEBZ976BI1/lul-png.png
All these "top tier" survivors say it's amazing because it's bad? Noob3 ran it, and after that video I saw it so many times in my games. I can literally tell when a survivor is running it when I am the killer because they go through the windows so fast.
And if you are telling me botany knowledge has a downside because you have to heal people, I don't know what to say. It's a core action in DBD buffed by a perk. There is no downside to that.
A youtuber meme'ing with some perks does not make them meta dude rofl. Even if we hypothetically say he was using it because he thinks it's crazy strong, that doesn't make it meta. That isn't what the word meta means. Meta does not mean strong, it means popular among top tier players for winning, of which it was not.
Many youtubers make videos exaggerating how strong perks are for views(not saying there's anything wrong with that, but just making my point.). You are taking click bait on youtube too seriously.
"And if you are telling me botany knowledge has a downside because you have to heal people, I don't know what to say. It's a core action in DBD buffed by a perk. There is no downside to that."
Top tier players don't waste time healing when they want to win. So yes, wasting time healing is a downside.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729203#Comment_1729203
Absolutely not. Resilience was meta for a while when the window hits were extremely killer sided. Now they have been buffed significantly, and the vault build is as relevant as ever.
The only "cost" of most of the perks in the game is the slot they take up and what could be in their place. What's the downside of something like botany knowledge? Or the downside of bond, sloppy butcher, etc? There are none, only what you could have in that spot instead.
No, Resilience was never meta at all.
Botany Knowledge isn't getting its full effect without using a medkit and you're deciding to spend gen time on healing.
Note that I said the criteria that the devs stated they want to get the perks to. I did not say that all perks currently fit that criteria.
I think the devs were referring to having that criteria for stronger effects, not necessarily all perks in general. IE Bond would probably fit this criteria. However a second chance like Dead Hard clearly fits the top standard for this.
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@DaKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729159#Comment_1729159
It's a perk. It's supposed to give you an ability you normally would not have. It doesn't need to have a losing situation or downside.
And resilience will absolutely save you in chases, even in spots where dead hard might not. With resilience and spine chill you lob through windows so fast the killer has to pre-swing at every window or they will never hit you.
No, perks are supposed to have a cost, downside, requirement etc per the devs own words.
Not to mention you're talking about one of the strongest perks in the game having none of those. I could at least see your argument if it was a mediocre effect as that would have some balancing in tow.
The times Resilience is saving you is mostly in your head. It can make a difference, but it is extremely minute and more placebo than anything.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729159#Comment_1729159
I think you being hyperbolic when using the term losing situation. That terms implies that its a perfect strategy that that always work 100 percent of the time when it can sometimes have the opposite effect.
And you can potentially argue that resilience is a second chance perks since it provides a buff to action speeds and also can extend chases if used well, which by your logic also provides a losing situation.
"I think you being hyperbolic when using the term losing situation. That terms implies that its a perfect strategy that that always work 100 percent of the time when it can sometimes have the opposite effect."
The only time it's not working is player error. Otherwise yes, it is working every time if the person plays correctly. That said, even it wasn't 100% of the time that is irrelevant. That wouldn't change my point being accurate at all.
"And you can potentially argue that resilience is a second chance perks since it provides a buff to action speeds and also can extend chases if used well, which by your logic also provides a losing situation."
I could see that argument if it was substantial enough to matter in the chase. However, it's not. The effect is near placebo it's so small.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1729139#Comment_1729139
I Disagree that is a downside. By your logic resilience and this is not happening also have no downside either.
Those aren't comparable because you're referring to not being able to use an effect to help you escape a chase but you don't need the perk to save you in a chase if you aren't already injured. IE being uninjured negates the need for the effect in the first place.
Your examples require you to be injured but they don't counteract themselves.
If your two examples were second chance effects then they would be comparable.
If you aren't injured you don't need a second chance. If you are injured you get the second chance. When is that ever a losing situation?
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@dspaceman20 said:
Dead hard does have a downside to running it. You have to be injured to be able to use it, which is not a favorable position to be in.
That isn't a downside. If you aren't injured then you don't need the perk in the first place. That leaves you in a win/win situation using it.
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I gather from your post that you're a newer player. When people talk about how bad Legion is they're more referring to higher ranks. If you're playing at low ranks Legion is completely fine and you shouldn't worry about his problems for the most part. If you like him, play him, you'll do good.
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Blinding at pallets typically serves no purpose other than bloodpoint farming or just to annoy the killer. Generally you can track the survivor by sound so you usually end up actually losing more distance than you would have gained if you had just ran immediately. It can definitely be tilting as killer to know you're just being farmed for points at every pallet.
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I'd personally rather them just get more counter play and downsides to them. There's currently no reason not to always be running an Exhaustion perk unless you don't care about winning. To me that's a sign of poor balancing.
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"Killer small pp build has counterplay to it.
Survivor small pp build does not. (DS,DH,BT,UB )"
^^ This. They aren't equivalent at all.
Also, what reasoning do you have for saying Undying+Ruin is "unhealthy". I would argue the literal exact opposite. It's extremely well balanced and designed.
It is very high risk, does literally nothing unless the killer plays well to pressure the map and has lots of counter play. Like seriously if that's "unhealthy" what would you possibly consider healthy?
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@Toybasher said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1724131#Comment_1724131
Pretty much. One of the problems with the anti-chest offerings is by removing the chests, there's less "Distractions" that keep survivors off of gens. Every second is a second survivors could be on generators, but survivors are not always on generators every second since they could be looking for chests, totems, maybe they want a glimpse of the killer to see who it is, etc.
By reducing the number of chests, survivors that would have been searching chests are likely on generators instead which works against you. With the change the same number of chests would spawn, just when searched some would be completely empty so survivors are still "occupied". Since it's secret survivors wouldn't know if it's a mori or a chest offering until they open a few chests to rule it out.
"Pretty much. One of the problems with the anti-chest offerings is by removing the chests, there's less "Distractions" that keep survivors off of gens. Every second is a second survivors could be on generators, but survivors are not always on generators every second since they could be looking for chests, totems, maybe they want a glimpse of the killer to see who it is, etc."
Yeah that's why the current cut coin is actually a negative and hinders the killer. You want the survivors wasting that time. It's also why I'd make the argument that the Broken status effect can actually be a negative since you want the survivors to waste time healing.
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@Toybasher said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1724105#Comment_1724105
I saw a clever idea to make the cut and scratched coin offerings (less chests) secret, but still spawn the chests anyway, but the chests are empty when searched.
Now when there's a secret offering you can search chests to see if it's possibly a mori, and the offering still benefits killer as survivors still waste time searching the chests.
I actually love that idea.
Hides the secrets essentially and makes the cut coin actually decent on killer as it could make them waste more time as well as having counter play.
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Split pressure, slug, and hope they make a lot of mistakes.
For how much people hate slugging it is essentially required against even semi decent survivors if you want to win. You quite literally do not have the mathematical time to hit, down, hook each survivor one at a time and taking turns between them. You will not win that way unless the survivors are terrible or just screwing around.
When people tell you not to slug, that's essentially saying "just lose the game".
This is why most top tier SWF or just good survivors in general always run Unbreakable. it's because they know that's the only chance the killer has to beat them. Well..that or camp/tunnel people off the hook, which is why you also see BT/DS stacked with that.
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Also the fact that there are so few secret offerings that you essentially always know what the secret is. IE defeating the entire point of being a secret...like it's been this way for 4 years I mean jeez common. Either we need more secret offerings or just hide them from the screen entirely. It currently just looks like poor design.
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@Golden_spider said:
It's not bad but having the potential to lose your totems because you accidentally ran past a few totems just kills the idea for me.
Except as soon as you step past one the perk will let you know it triggered. IE you now know there's a totem there and can cleanse it for free. That's not really wasted and fills the purpose.
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Haven't tried this combo yet, will do.
To be honest though, new WGLF even by itself is hella good. Even if you removed the BP component I'd still keep running it. I've been getting lots of value out of it. One person running it and the killer basically can't slug all game, that's huge.
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They really are completely busted right now. Just played there as survivor and those fences are infinite's. There was nothing that killer could have done there. It's not even just one fence either, we got multiple.
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Buff. The kit is salvageable with some small tweaks.
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A lot of people conflate the rank system being flawed with rank doesn't matter.
The ranking system may be bad but rank does mean something. That is just obvious to anyone that's played against a grey rank and a red rank.
I can usually call out what the solo queue players in my groups ranks are before I get to the end lobby and I'm usually pretty dang accurate. That's because rank matters and the skill differences are very noticeable.
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Man grabs have been bugged to hell since back when dedicated servers were released and it's still broken. The issue is related to ping but you'd think it would've been fixed by now.
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Just played a match with these as survivor. This is a literal infinite. I could've kept the killer there the entire match. Needs fixing asap.
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Generally speaking if you 3K and didn't pip it means you killed them on first hook.
IE you cheesed them with NOED after losing the game or camped them out. Meaning you didn't really earn the the 3K, so no pip. Obviously some small exceptions, but that's generally the case.
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It isn't about criticizing fog whisperers, it's anyone in general. You can't name and shame.
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Spine Chill is just a better Premonition imo.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1720036#Comment_1720036
Again, I completely agree with you.
I've almost given up entirely on trying to follow the balance of this game. I can't figure out for the life of me the goals. High level play, casual play, competition vs party game, the design choices of this game seem to borrow and ignore from all of these categories equally.
Yeah it does seem all over the place. I think their intended balance is more of a party game around rank 10 or below. Which can be very frustrating for more hardcore players that play with a competitive mind set such as myself.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1720011#Comment_1720011
Oh, I agree with you. I was more speaking of the intended balance. My math was slightly off, I was more pointing out the general idea. I'm not super math-crunchy at the moment. The INTENDED balance is 4v1 over the course of 5 gens and an exit gate to produce a 2k. That is TECHNICALLY their stated goal. I don't think balance is there atm, but that HAS been their stated goal. It would still equal out to Killer perks feeling less potent than Survivor perks, though they should also be useful throughout the entire match to compensate while Survivor perks are situationally strong but won't allow them to go head-to-head with the Killer. Obviously, that's been an issue of late with the amount of second chance perks, much less other perks that allow Survivors take trade hits and bog down the Killer.
I guess I don't hold much light to an intended goal that hasn't been met after 4+ years. I feel like it's what they say but don't actually do.
"It would still equal out to Killer perks feeling less potent than Survivor perks, though they should also be useful throughout the entire match to compensate while Survivor perks are situationally strong but won't allow them to go head-to-head with the Killer. Obviously, that's been an issue of late with the amount of second chance perks, much less other perks that allow Survivors take trade hits and bog down the Killer."
I'd make the argument that most the "meta" survivor perks aren't situational at all and their effect is net much more gained than the consistent value of the killer perk all game. The only time the second chance perks don't activate is when the killer plays in a way that loses him the game anyway against good survivors. IE a lose/lose scenario. So even if your second chance perks never activated they still gave you insane value as you forced the killer to play stupid/inefficient. I'd also argue that survivors currently are indeed able to go toe-to-toe with the killer which doesn't make any sense with an "intended" 1v4 balance, as that shouldn't be possible.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1719986#Comment_1719986
I think it makes sense insofar as the objectives of the game. The Killer has a set amount of gens to down the Survivors. With 5 gens and 4 Survivors, mathematically, that means the Killer needs to down about 0.75 Survivors per gen. With that in mind, the same math can be used to technically compare their perks to Survivor perks. As a result, the math actually kinda indicates that Killer perks should actually be LESS potent than Survivor perks. However, they need to be fairly useful throughout the entire match. Survivor perks, on the other hand, more or less need to be strong enough to make a single gen possible to power through before the Survivor gets boned.
Add on top of this the stated (although not explicit) balance as being a 2k, and you further push the math to weaken Killer perks even more in order to meet that stated balance goal.
TL:DR Killers are, in general, not balanced for 1v1. They are balanced for 4v1 with the expectation of a 2k after 5 gens and an exit gate. This means they are technically supposed to be kind of weak with a consistent baseline and spikes in potency.
"I think it makes sense insofar as the objectives of the game. The Killer has a set amount of gens to down the Survivors. With 4 gens and 5 Survivors, mathematically, that means the Killer needs to down about 0.75 Survivors per gen."
.75 boils down to less than 2 kills so that isn't quite accurate. That is also assuming every single hook is on the same 2 survivors which is highly unlikely not to mention kinda playing like a dick to those guys.
"With that in mind, the same math can be used to technically compare their perks to Survivor perks. As a result, the math actually kinda indicates that Killer perks should actually be LESS potent than Survivor perks. However, they need to be fairly useful throughout the entire match. Survivor perks, on the other hand, more or less need to be strong enough to make a single gen possible to power through before the Survivor gets boned."
This rational is ignoring a multitude of other factors that are extremely significant in the time to time ratio between the sides. Generally speaking every 1 second of time the killer uses is 3 seconds the survivors gain, assuming at least 1 is in chase/downed/getting hooked etc.
"TL:DR Killers are, in general, not balanced for 1v1. They are balanced for 4v1 with the expectation of a 2k after 5 gens and an exit gate. This means they are technically supposed to be kind of weak with a consistent baseline and spikes in potency."
They are currently significantly balanced around 1v1, not 1v4. It isn't even close if you simply look at the math. Compare the time spent finding, chasing, downing, picking up, and hooking + 3 times for a killer to the time for 5 gens. It isn't even a close call. Even if we assume a very good killer and he downs the survivor in sub 15 seconds which is rare, +2 for pickup, +5 for carry, +1 for hook. That's 23 seconds x3 which gives 69 seconds to the survivors. That's being quite generous and it's almost an entire gen. That's also assuming he was already injured...
This is also ignoring all the myriad of second chance perks that extend this time tremendously.
It needs to be balanced around a 1v4. Not in chase, but in time for objectives. This leaves fun chases for survivors while still being able to balance the objective times appropriately.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1719800#Comment_1719800
For the pig
Stake out works on Jigsaw boxes huntress doesn't
Resilience and Leader can affect jigsaw boxes search speed but thano or dying can't ( personally I 100% understand why this one is the case but it's an example)
As I said in my post I'm not looking for changes just wondering the reasoning behind it.
There isn't really a good reason. If anything you'd think it would be the opposite since its a 1v4, IE 1 of the killers perks should be rough equal in strength to 4 of the survivors. However that just isn't the case across the board. Heck even just comparing 1 to 1 most killer perks are weaker than most survivor perks, which as I've said doesn't make any sense.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1719723#Comment_1719723
Why killer can't have perk that's effect they power but survivors have perks that can effect or even counter killer power
Example?
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It has nothing to do with how strong he is, I'd even give him some small buffs.
The issue to me is lack of interactivity. Since there's no delay on scope canceling and most DS no scope shoot you, you're left just randomly wiggling because you have no idea when he's gonna fire. You aren't reacting to anything, you're just randomly guessing.
He takes quite a bit of skill with his aiming, it's just all on his side and not much on yours.
One of the least fun killers to play against in my personal opinion.
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The biggest issues causing this is the ranking/matchmaking/rank reset system.
It's currently way too easy too rank up (on both sides, but especially on survivor), there's still wonky matchmaking where I'll get thrown against literally grey ranks that just started the game, and that terrible rank reset change that was done like 6 months ago or so which now makes it almost impossible to derank. The mismatch of ease in ranking up is also what contributes to queue times problems as now you have many more survivors piling up at high ranks than there are killers. The queue takes longer because the system is initially at least, trying to match you with "equal" skill players, so it keeps looking even though there aren't enough and it gives up and finally puts you with differing ranks.
This causes games where your teammates are "supposedly" your same rank but they really aren't, but you will get matched with an equal rank killer under the assumption that their rank is accurate. Since it's not accurate you get games where you feel like you have potato teammates that go down in seconds and have no idea what they're doing because they're not in an equally matched game even though it "technically" says they are in the lobby screen.
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Now if we assume these issues get fixed with the MMR system, then we run into some other problems.
Many of the games heavy imbalances are covered up by all these flawed systems for the reasons I presented before. These "mismatched" games throwing you with potatoes counter-acts these imbalances to make them less noticeable.
IE in a perfect world where the MMR fixes these problems it will bring all the extreme imbalanced to a head and make them much more noticeable than they currently are and make much less people want to play killer at high ranks. It would essentially force balancing around high ranks, but we know that is something they at least for the last 4 years, have not wanted to do.
Assuming their MMR system works anyway, these are the next issues we're gonna be running into once MMR gets released to fix your solo queue issues OP.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718926#Comment_1718926
I only notice it when the legion player knows they've lost and I'm not saying it's unwinnable or all the time I'm saying the game drags out further when they choose to just frenzy for the hell of it and patrol the gens without committing to anyone
Assuming he does this ( I can't even remember the last time this happened it's been so long), you first had to have essentially given him a 3 gen. Even then, it's a losing strategy as you'd get the gens done faster than he could do that. Yeah it would be annoying, but it's also a rare/unrealistic scenario.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718581#Comment_1718581
Some legion players will just try to be annoying though and FF even when you're injured just because they know you have to stop and take time to mend, I think thats what OP was talking about.
In a scenario midway through the game if the legion player feels like they've lost or are gonna lose they will stall that game as long as possible with FF and not even try to commit to any chases just gen checking and FF to slow it out as much as possible and then everyone finally either finds a way to power through or they get so damn bored they just die on purpose to go to the next match because it's not fun to hold m1 the whole game
Honestly how often does this happen though really? I can count them on maybe one hand in many months worth of game time..hardly enough to ever be worth even mentioning it's so rare. Even if he is doing that, you spread out from each other and now he can only even pick one of you to do it to at a time...
This annoying scenario is just pretty unrealistic/rare and can be prevented quite easily, not to mention it assumes they want to just throw the match intentionally.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718581#Comment_1718581
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718596#Comment_1718596
that's exactly what OP is complaining about. Holding a single button isn't fun; mending vs Legion, adding extra time onto gens, especially if combined with thana, is not fun. Holding w in a straight-ass line isn't fun. At least with looping, you can mindgame either side and feel amazingly (or, depending on if you got mindgamed, awfully). I admit a lot of loops are pretty survivor sided but there isn't a single loop where the killer can't do anything anymore except for a type of spawn on Asylumn. Know what you can't do, as either side, with holding w? Mindgame.
You misunderstood my point.
If he is indeed holding a single button that many times he is either playing incorrectly or he's already won because the Legion is playing incorrectly.
If you want to make the point that even in the scenario where he won it was still boring because he was holding one button so much, I'd argue he is actually holding the button less because now he isn't having to heal any.
Either way that doesn't leave a scenario where he's holding one button excessively longer than any other killer, generally speaking.
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@LowSpecGamersMatter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718582#Comment_1718582
it just to much. Its RNG depended. Which means in worst case (and this happens much more than you will admit) u have to cleanse 4 hex totems to get rid of ruin. Good luck doing that on one of the newest maps with INSANE hidden totems like hawkins, or generally any other indoor map. And then throw in tinkerer and high mobility and its gg
If it's that common then throw on one of the totem perks like Small Game. Where's the issue with that?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718661#Comment_1718661
Some people are unlucky in solo que some times you get the pro looping Nea the other times you get the locker Dwight. The other person must get the locker Dwight.
To me that illustrates the problems with the ranking/pip system putting people of unequal skill together, not a problem with these 2 perks.
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@JinSime said:
People here clearly don't play with randoms, saying this it's just easy to deal with the combo.
It's mostly unbearable to play solo, and against this, there's basically nothing you can do (but I guess that's what killers want, right? hope they get full red ranks swf one after another to experience the same frustration). Undying needs to lose its aura reading.
I play strictly solo queue and we manage fine. Many times we even finish all gens with ruin still up. So why isn't it a problem in my solo queue games?
There is plenty of counter play to this combo so where's the issue?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718625#Comment_1718625
I actually agree taking away aura reading away because it overshadows Retribution and TOFH and it's a little much.
That illustrates just how bad those 2 perks are, not that Undying needs its aura reading removed. Retribution and TOTH just need buffs.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1718582#Comment_1718582
the perks themselves arent an issue.
the combo of Ruin + Undying itself is also not an issue (besides the face that it creates an RNG based secondary objective and i personally despise anything that is RNG based, but thats a personal issue i have with it)
however, it gets problematic when this combo is used together with Tinkerer on a high mobility Killer, such as the Blight.
it is then that it gets way too oppressive for survivors and it singlehandedly wins killers a game. all the killer needs to do is showing some map awareness and its basically a GG - you cant do gens, as they would rush to them immediately when tinkerer triggers and you cant do totems, as they would rush to them immediately when your aura is revealed to them - not an issue on normal killers, but high mobility killers always have the ability to get to you before you can finish the action, getting a free chase AND resetting your objective all at once.
granted, coordinated groups can beat this by, well, coordinating their actions, forcing the killer to choose what totem to protect and which to let go for example, but for any solo player this becomes extremely hard to deal with.
my suggestion would be to remove the aura reveal of Undying (or at the VERY least, limiting it to Hex totems ONLY). there is no reason why it should be on this perk, as it has nothing to do with what the perk was made for (respawning other Hexes) and it just ends up making the perk too good imho.
this wouldnt fix my problem with the RNG based secondary objective, but it would help a lot making this combo a lot less oppressive than it currently is, by actually giving survivors a chance to deal with the totems without trading like 5 hooks for them.
"it is then that it gets way too oppressive for survivors and it singlehandedly wins killers a game. all the killer needs to do is showing some map awareness and its basically a GG - you cant do gens"
This isn't true even remotely. I deal with it regularly, easily.
"as they would rush to them immediately when tinkerer triggers and you cant do totems, as they would rush to them immediately when your aura is revealed to them - not an issue on normal killers, but high mobility killers always have the ability to get to you before you can finish the action, getting a free chase AND resetting your objective all at once."
If he's rushing back and forth like that he shouldn't be getting hits on you or you are misplaying hard. As soon as he leaves you get back on, he comes back, then the other guys get back on. Even with a high mobility killer like Blight that is a losing exchange for him.
"granted, coordinated groups can beat this by, well, coordinating their actions, forcing the killer to choose what totem to protect and which to let go for example, but for any solo player this becomes extremely hard to deal with."
This isn't a problem with solo queue, the problem you are pointing out is just bad players that aren't pressuring multiple objectives at once. That doesn't require coordination to work on a different objective than the rest your team.
"my suggestion would be to remove the aura reveal of Undying (or at the VERY least, limiting it to Hex totems ONLY). there is no reason why it should be on this perk, as it has nothing to do with what the perk was made for (respawning other Hexes) and it just ends up making the perk too good imho."
Why does it need to be removed? It isn't oppressive at all and has lots of counter play.
"but it would help a lot making this combo a lot less oppressive than it currently is, by actually giving survivors a chance to deal with the totems without trading like 5 hooks for them."
It is a 4v1. He can't be in 4 places at once even on the highest mobility killers, so unless you are going down sub 10 seconds he isn't even getting a hit without committing enough time to lose one of the objectives. If he keeps coming back to the totem every time that is losing him the game. You are are forcing him to waste all his time there while everyone else is sitting on gens or removing the other totems/hexes.
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Undying + Ruin is good game play. It gives you secondary objectives and does nothing unless the killer can play well and pressure the entire board. Not to mention it's costing him 2 perk slots.
Like literally, where's the issue with the perks? Elaborate.
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Why are you healing against Legion?
If you're not healing and he's FF'ing you while injured, how are you not winning? That generally means he's playing bad.
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@musefan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1716920#Comment_1716920
Please don't mention other perks when complaining about a perk.
I don't want Empathy to be nerfed.
You're misunderstanding my post. I just mentioned another perk to give an example of how it should work.
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I get the need for an adjustable for tier purposes.
What I don't get is why the third rank isn't "Unlimited" like Empathy. That's what rubs me a little wrong.
Overall it is pretty minor nerf as it will be working the same in most cases, but why was a minor nerf however small it is needed? Who ever complained about Discordance honestly? I've never seen a single post on here.
The issue is more the principle that it was nerfed in the first place rather than the actual degree of what the nerf was.
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Unless my team was toxic or really bad I will never hide for hatch. I will work on gens till the very end. I find hiding for the hatch and waiting for the other guy to die to be pretty pathetic personally.
Unlikely for success but I don't like using a broken mechanic for a free escape.
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Your goal is wasting time before you go down. It isn't to not go down.
The counter play is standard looping but throwing the pallet early.
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I don't see really any point to them other than making SWF even more obnoxious and increasing the grind.
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Don't forget the new giant rock that has appeared right next to shack making the loop even safer than it already was...jeezus I hope that isn't intended.
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It gets kind of frustrating playing her because you'll lose games that you could have won if you were on a different killer simply because the limit of how much you can do with Plague is quite low against good survivors.