Blueberry
Blueberry
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On survivor it's felt pretty abusable. I've stretched loops out for minutes that probably would have never happened if bloodlust was active.
While infinites per say are gone for the most part there are still highly abusable and way too safe loops chained together on many maps to where bloodlust 1 still feels needed. I could see bloodlust 2 or 3 going though.
The devs feel they've fixed the maps enough for this change but I disagree. Maybe just wait till all the map reworks have finished and then we can go about removing 2 and 3. I think they're just jumping the gun a little before the maps that are still abusable have been reworked as well.
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15 seconds is pretty laughable. Needs to be 60 seconds at least.
They really need to stop making Hemorrhage addons as well until they actual improve the status effect to actually be relevant whatsoever.
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No. Expecting full price for an incomplete product isn't good etiquette or even good business practice.
Aside from it not being complete none of their changes actually address the core issues with the Twins. Victor will still be held hostage and the locker hold will end up not being long enough for Charlotte to capitalize.
There is just counter play, on top of counter play, on top of counter play, it's exhausting. She needs a lot of improvements still to even be decent. No one is going to view this killer as threatening in her current proposed improvement state.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1763470#Comment_1763470
they should reduce the timer to 25 seconds and apply aura-reading as soon as Victor jumps on a survivor. That would help resolve the issue. I have feeling that locker will still hard counter victor because victor will be next to a locker so teammates will just kill victor similar to how people sometimes save teammates from trappers traps. SWF bully ego is going to be through the roof.
Yeah instant aura reading on Victor pounce and the survivor goes down if they don't remove him in 20 seconds sounds decent to me. Locker grab by Victor should simply down the survivor honestly. If they want him to hold them in then it needs to require a teammate to rescue you while highlighting your aura to your teammates, no timer involved.
Even 20 seconds is almost an entire gen for the killer gone per pounce. I don't think they realize how much more tight time is for the killer than it is the survivor.
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Mostly bad.
They didn't fix bad perks and nerfed a perk that was already bad.
Holding Victor hostage will still happen as their change isn't gonna fix the problem. The locker fix is better than its current state but still bad as they can still be rescued before you can even get there in time. Victor should just down the survivor in the locker and you have to come pick them up.
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Nerfed an already bad perk basically.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1763470#Comment_1763470
They got "buffed" so they can pull survivors out of lockers like every other killer in the game. Still no lethality from a healthy state, and still takes a year to actually hook a survivor. It's so bad.
Yeah honestly Victor catching someone in a locker should just down them and Charlotte still has to come pick them up.
She's extremely time inefficient in a meta where killers are already in the negative on time. "Gimmicky" is a term that summarizes her a good bit I'd say. A lot of extra and unnecessary steps, taking the long way around to complete the same thing.
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I was expecting a lot more improvements that they just didn't get. This killer is gonna get bullied really bad. This is probably the weakest killer they have released in quite a while.
They're essentially gonna have a 45 second cooldown on their power every time they use it. This is gonna be abused so hard.
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While yeah the walls can just be broken, the problem is that the time to break the walls is a cost on the killer.
IE yeah now infinite's are gone, but the killer has to waste extra time removing them all. This is in a meta where the killers are already vastly behind on time compared to the survivors for their objectives.
If the whole breakable walls mechanic was a time sync on the survivor side and an extra objective for them then yeah that would be a more realistic solution.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1759955#Comment_1759955
It's not that my teammates have been bad - they're just ONLY working on challenges.
I have deranked from 7 to 10 since these latest challenges come out. And I have to say, since taking a break and coming back from 20 to 5 (before the reset), I consistently had better teammates at higher ranks than I do at red and purple.
Also, how do you survive in 80% of your games when in most of my games, all three teammates will stop doing the last 1-3 gens and just wait for everyone else to finish? I am not kidding about how often this happens to me as a solo survivor. I had a game the other day BEFORE the seven heal challenge where I had to finish the last three gens entirely alone.
Either I loop the killer for ages and my teammates just sit on the gens till they're done or they're looping and I sit on them. I don't experience much of what you're saying is happening in your games.
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If you yourself are actually playing good regardless of how bad your teammates are you will steadily rank up. Steadily ranking up increases the chances of competent teammates. Even if my team is really bad we may all die, but I will still pip. There are issues with solo queue revolving primarily around it being too easy to rank up and the rank reset problem, but in general I think people over exaggerate how bad solo queue is. I primarily play solo queue and I survive probably 80% of my matches at least and I don't run almost any of the second chance meta perks either.
I think a lot of this comes down to people blaming solo queue as the reason they're doing bad when they're actually playing bad themselves and don't take any responsibility.
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I tend to agree with others about Father Campbell's Chapel. I'm pretty fine seeing that map on either side.
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They've actually added a decent amount of crows to the maps now, but the issue with Spies is that when it triggers the survivors were already so close you would have heard or seen the crows anyway defeating its entire purpose.
If they changed it to aura reading for like 2 seconds and the range was map wide then it might be worth considering.
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@HittingOnHook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756135#Comment_1756135
is bloodust disabled upon a successful hit? if it is not, I reckon that's the balanced solution
It is disabled on hit.
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If the killer is actually bloodlusting survivors for a hit he's losing the game anyway because the time you spend getting bloodlust before your hit means you're wasting way more time than you should be if you expect to win. This is why it doesn't need any changes.
IE if you bloodlust a survivor you've lost the game anyway. If you're bloodlusting people and still winning then the survivors are just playing badly.
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I play the game enough that I only payed for the premium track 1 time and now it will be free for me forever. The deals don't get much better than that. Absolutely worth.
Now if you didn't play a lot I could see it not being worth.
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They said they were working on the feature, but that was like 6 months ago so we're not sure where it's at now. It's definitely needed.
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If anything his chainsaw hit box is way too large, not too tiny. That's a first I've heard anyone say that it's too small ever.
Only think I'd want changed for Billy is his annoying roar when using his chainsaw.
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Oni isn't really underrated at all. Most the community considers him quite strong because he is.
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All 3 killer ones seem pretty underwhelming to me.
Hoarder one should be map wide and make it reveal aura for a few seconds not just a location ping. Current form is just gimmicky.
Coup De Grace is quite bad. Honestly just make it a slightly increasing lunge distance and speed of lunge for each gen completed.
Oppression simply needs a shorter cooldown, say 40 seconds. Base regression speed in this game is just abysmal and near worthless. You could also instead make it 60 second cooldown but they regress slightly faster.
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It's literally a challenge not to pip even at rank 1 regardless of how bad your teammates are. Not to mention how the slow rank reset has made it almost impossible to actually de-rank now. Awful teammates you'll probably lose and die, but you will still pip. If you aren't pipping then you are doing barely anything for your team. Do at least 1 gen, make a save, pop a totem and run the killer a tiny bit. There's your pip.
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Trapper looks the most dated to me if we're talking just visuals.
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@Alphaphalt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1745992#Comment_1745992
Sorry I probably should have elaborated more.
A lot of killers don't enjoy holding W around a pallet, because that's all they can do unless they're a high tier chase killer like Rin Sally and Caleb.
I appreciate the feedback though <3
I agree that's why the loops without high walls (ones like in Autohaven) need high walls. When they are low like that there is zero mind games involved. It's just mindless circling to get rid of the pallet. This is also why they need to close the holes in the shack, because being able to see the killer during a loop removes the mind game.
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The loops/chases need to be long enough for the survivors to have fun. However loops/chases that long lose the game for killers.
I'd say rather than shortening loops/chases to keep up with the games speed the more fun solution is to keep the long loops/chases but slow the game down enough so that we can have those fun interactions without it costing the killer the entire game.
This is one of the reasons a lot of survivors don't like the indoor maps, it's because they generally don't have these kinds of loops.
I personally think they should reduce some of the amount of loops but add a lot more fog/grass/LOS blockers etc to allow for more skilled jukes/mind games mid chase. To me as a survivor that would be fun. Currently that just isn't happening unless the killer is just really bad.
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I think people think it's better than it is. Yeah you can save a tiny bit of time catching back up to them, but in most cases unless they position really badly you shouldn't be continuing after them anyway. Hit or pallet, break chase, hit or pallet, break chase. That's how you map pressure. Continual chasing loses games.
Most the "chase" perks including Brutal Strength are vastly overrated in my opinion.
If you're really just trying to save time in general you'd end up saving more time just running slow down perks.
Now if Brutal Strength gen kicks caused the gen to regress faster as well, now we might be talking. Currently just doesn't do enough to be worth a slot to me.
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@Boot said:
If a killer tunnels and camps and I make it to that exit, I'll sit there til the last second of EGC.
That would seem understandable. The problem comes in though when everyone thinks the killer is tunneling or camping every single game when they're really not. Peoples judgement of what constitutes camping or tunneling is so far off from reality.
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They like to re-use rigs so I would assume we'll be seeing more short killers in the future now.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739926#Comment_1739926
Idk how to get you to recognise the issue here, tbh. It's clear as day.
I think it's pretty clear as day as well.
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@MrPeterPFL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739877#Comment_1739877
There are Killers that keep survivors injured or one shot you down, that “one hit” can be lethal and punishes survivors for doing their job.
Most all the killers that currently keep survivors injured are on the weaker side already. There are one shot killers but I also think that's assuming a best case scenario. There will be many times it pops not at the right time where it does nothing for you or the multiple maps that you will see very little value from it.
Lastly, there are currently lots of perks that punish the other side for doing their job. We can argue whether that is good or bad design but that's another discussion.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739877#Comment_1739877
Because T-L walls don't have pallets...and then you also need to take into consideration if it's been a relatively long chase where the survivor has already been hit or if the killer has an instadown...
That IS gamebreaking.
Not the literal T-L wall, there are pallets right next to them though. If he's already been in a relatively long chase what's the issue? So he's been chasing the same survivor for like a minute and only needs one more hit to down him, that's game breaking? Giving up a perk slot that situationally helps you down a survivor in 1 minute sometimes? If every single chase took 1 minute you lost the game as killer a few times over already. You're also assuming a worst case scenario. There are many times it could pop and maps you could be on where it gives you nothing.
That isn't game breaking.
If the perk got this change I wouldn't even run it.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739854#Comment_1739854
Imagine they're on suffocation pit, in the middle with 3 back to back T-L walls. Suddenly every window is blocked. Survivor dies because they were in chase when a generator got popped.
It would reward survivors doing their jobs by letting them be easily downed with minimal effort in plenty of cases. That is unfair.
And why wouldn't they just drop a pallet in this circumstance? Also, the blocked windows are for a very, very short duration. A lot of the time you can out kite the block duration to a nearby window as well as the distance blocked isn't that far.
This is also just one hit if he fails, that's it. That isn't game breaking.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739809#Comment_1739809
It would, but then it would be very unfair/broken. It's a dilemma. I want it to have a meaningful use, but the only good buff to it would punish players for successfully evading the killer while others are doing gens.
I don't think that would be unfair/broken evenly remotely. When I say potential I mean at least a consideration, it still probably wouldn't even be great, much less broken. All it does is force an earlier pallet drop, that's it.
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It's just windows and still an extremely bad perk even after its changes. Would've had some potential if it blocked around the killer instead of the completed gen.
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@Cutiaddu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739669#Comment_1739669
Yea ranks truly don't matter in dbd
I'd say they matter as in not completely meaningless (on average a rank 1 will be better than a rank 10 for example) but they do currently mean significantly less than they used to because of the flawed systems we have going on at the moment that i mentioned.
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@noctis129 said:
Pig is only good w noobs. At top tier ranks pig gets bullied.
^^ This basically.
Against average or bad survivor she is totally fine like most killers because they make mistakes, waste time and don't fully know what they're doing. However, against actually good survivors she is quite weak. She becomes essentially a basic m1 killer with a little gen slow down that is completely RNG reliant on how good it's gonna go. She has a stealth but it's one of the worst in the game and her ambush is near complete trash and should have had a rework ages ago. The only loops her ambush is good at are loops that are unsafe and could've been easily mind games without the ambush in the first place.
Lastly, most her addons are just bad or don't make any sense.
Just because I can 3-4k the majority of my matches doesn't mean Pig is good, it just points out that the majority of survivors are bad and we still have a flawed ranking/rank reset system piling survivors up at ranks they shouldn't be in. IE those players aren't really the rank it says they are.
I also quite hate when we look at one of the best killer players for a specific killer in the game to say a killer is a fine, but then when we look at survivor we look at the "average" survivor in a solo queue match. That's quite a double standard. The same criteria needs to be used for both. IE top tier both sides or average both.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738943#Comment_1738943
Plague has the most devastating ranged damage attack in the game. Hypothetically, if all she had was corrupt purge, then she mop the floor with survivors in all maps except for a few of the indoor ones like Treatment Theater. As she currently stands, good survivors cleanse very sparingly, as opposed to those who cleanse as often as possible and get punished for it. I know this because I actually mained her up until Blight came out, and I still do very well in red ranks when I play her with my build: DL, Thana, Surge, Surveillance/Pop/BBQ, (I call it the "Rock and Hard Place"). Her power with corrupt Purge is uncontested IMO as it's basically "machine gun hatchets" with a 13m range that can hit multiple survivors better than bubba's chainsaw, can be used more often, and good survivors know it and fear giving it to her. This is why My build punishes them for refusing to cleanse more than it does for when they cleanse, which by design, encourages them to cleanse and give me that power over them. Like I said before, I don't have to go out of my way to get corrupt purge when, sooner or later, a survivor will lead me to a corrupt fountain during a chase, and I'll unleash hell on them for it. If they gain 4 seconds for each time I gain corrupt purge, they are gonna lose 20 seconds per survivor I down with it.
I admit I did miss that because I started responding after reading up to the auto corrupt idea, and while that would stop the scenario wherein they can all cleanse simultaneously, the auto corrupt still gives them no incentive to cleanse at all when they can just deal with being broken all game and gen rush. While My build counters that and encourages them to cleanse, it still falls victim to survivors being efficient with gens in the early game as the main slowdown I gain with my build doesn't occur until all survivors are infected/broken, and I have acquired at least 4 stacks of DL. If I can't get them all broken and 4 stacks of DL by the time there are 3 gens left, It's a real pain in the ass to make up for it. My build and strategies aside however, I still feel that giving them the power to control when corrupt purge activates for Plague vs. being able to choose when you activate it yourself, would be more of a hinderance for her than a blessing.
I'm neutral on your suggestion to lower her TR 2m per fully infected survivor because M&A was my go-to perk with her for a long time since it allowed her to get close enough to start infecting survivors, but with that suggestion it would require her to infect all 4 to gain the benefit of M&A. Still, If paired with M&A it could be quite devastating, as she would have a 16m TR with all infected, and we all know how much survivors hate it when Deathslinger brings in M&A, and he doesn't move as fast as she does. Likewise the regression suggestion is a nice touch that would encourage Plague players to infect every gen they come across as often as possible and use the add-ons that increase infection time on objects, but I promise you'll get nothing but complaints from the survivors over it, and even if it were implemented, their go-to method to defeat it will still be to gen rush while infected instead of cleansing.
As for your last suggestion... I honestly think that is already in the works. The devs are trying to get the tik rates and timings for perks like Dead Hard optimized for the dedicated servers, and I'm certain they're also working on correcting killers projectile timings and tik rates as well, so you may not have needed to suggest that.
IMHO, Plague is a very strong killer once you learn how to use her effectively. Is she S tier? No, but I personally put her at a high B - low A because her 2 part power makes chases last half as long as they would be with most other killers, Gives her excellent tracking, and makes her a nightmare to face at range. Does she need improvements? Absolutely, but not if they are going to give survivors more control over her power than they already have.
I think you vastly over value how strong her corrupt is. Even with corrupt she can be looped for quite a while. She will down you slightly faster than without yeah, but when you count in the extra time spent infecting and picking up the fountain you're at more of a negative than a positive a lot of the time. You are misunderstanding the time ratio I gave you. They are not gaining 4 seconds each time you get corrupt purge, they are gaining 4 seconds for each second you spend. So 5 seconds to pick up corrupt purge (this is extremely generous and assuming you're near walking right past it at the moment which is quite rare) is 20 seconds given to the survivors. I think the survivors gain a lot more time from this interaction than you're realizing.
You mention them now not having incentive to cleanse at all but that is entirely the point of my other change where we decrease her TR per survivor fully infected. This is to make it more dangerous if they indeed don't cleanse now. You also say it's bad to give survivors more control over her power but now you are getting instant corrupt without the time cost of picking it up making it actually time cost positive. There's also very few moments where you would not want to get that corrupt instead of your vile. The only time you are honestly being given your corrupt when you really don't want it is the assumption of a hyper organized SWF 4 man. Given this, it would be a net positive.
I think considering Plague low A tier is extremely generous. I can't think of a single high hour/high rank player that would put her there or even close. The general consensus is mid B at best. A killer that when it comes down to it against good survivors is an extremely loopable m1 killer is never even remotely close to A tier or in a general sense "strong". I just feel like you're giving Plague way too much credit. I'm assuming good survivors, not the survivors you will run into on average.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1739003#Comment_1739003
are you playing plague without add-on? the add-on you should always use on plague is rubbing oil. its like huntress Flower Babushka. It will drastically improve your vile purge and corrupt purge by lowering the wind-up of it thus making it a lot harder to loop. Slow arcing is something that threw me off at the start but it ends up working out in your favor if you can master the arc, it ends up working in your favor on a lot of the loops, you can hit people even behind objects with right angle. she has some setup time but its really easy to perform within normal game loop unlike the majority of setup killers that have to go out of their way to use their power(Trapper, Demo, Hag etc.). I do not play much of plague purely because of her emblems. Otz made a video about her recently. She is definitely one of the more.... strategically complex killers. I am not really sure why you think a killer that counters all form of healing and could even counter old instant heals + has opportunity to move at 115% with a ranged attack is weak but that is beyond my comprehension.
She did move at 120%, It was definitely in one of those patch logs. I found it fascinating purely because no killer really moves at 120% with M1 capabilities. I found it to be quite unique at the time. Hope that shows up some new killer release in the future.
Killers shouldn't be balanced around certain addons so I am basing this around no addons.
"I am not really sure why you think a killer that counters all form of healing and could even counter old instant heals + has opportunity to move at 115% with a ranged attack is weak but that is beyond my comprehension."
Because I actually play her regularly at rank 1 and understand how weak she is. Countering heals is irrelevant because now they waste no time healing and gen rush you even harder. You want the survivors to waste time healing. The only real benefit Plague has here is them wasting perks slots in turn because of this. You also aren't taking into account the amount of time you waste infecting, picking up and then finding someone in realizing the cost associated with Corrupt Purge, not to mention missing its high level of counterability in the first place, IE slow charge, slow down on release and arc speed. She is highly loopable with corrupt. You are over valuing how good her Corrupt is and under-realizing the cost for her to get the corrupt in the first place.
"She did move at 120%, It was definitely in one of those patch logs. I found it fascinating purely because no killer really moves at 120% with M1 capabilities. I found it to be quite unique at the time. Hope that shows up some new killer release in the future."
You can look through the patch logs, she did not have 120% move speed. I even went back through them just to verify. The very fast speed she had was when she kept her 115% while holding a charged corrupt.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738933#Comment_1738933
In corrupt purge, she's 115% huntress and ranged killers are usually reserved to 110%. she's definitely best ranger killer on paper but like Oni is to Billy, she is not always in her power. Without her power, If everyone is broken, She's permanent infinity EV3 Myers and Myer is quite weak as being 1 hit is worthless vs good looping. The only time 1 hits matter is when your saving people from hooks and you do not want hook trades and plague gives you control over on when you can be 1 hit or not 1 hit. In the end, It is same problem as many other killers like Oni before his power, Legion, Myers etc. M1 killers will never win vs good survivor players because they make few/no mistakes at all in loops that are safe which is vast majority of them hence why the better killers always those that can spam their power and render looping ineffective. Plague is not able to spam her power without survivor control and therefore is subject to be beaten by good looping.
I mean for reference, Plague used to move at 120% in PBE in corrupt puke mode and she could hold her puke at 115% and they thought it was too oppressive. Its still hard to believe that Pop goes weasel and Thana were "overperforming perks" but you know, rank 20 balancing as they say.
I think you make her Corrupt Purge sound way stronger than it is. She is still very loopable even with corrupt given the slow wind up, down down on herself, and the slow arc of the attack. She also has to waste time infecting and then picking up the corrupt which ends up wasting way more time than the extra time you saved downing them faster with the corrupt. I wouldn't call her a permanent EW3 Myers when they don't cleanse either, she's much worse. Myers has a longer lunge and faster vault in EW3 as well as a him having a smaller TR. Not to mention Plague is also extremely tall and a full 32m TR, making her one of the most loopable killers in the game in that state without her power as well as plenty of heads up that she is coming.
I agree with your sentiment about M1 killers.
Plague in PTB never moved at 120%, what she had was the 115% while holding corrupt as you mentioned.
I agree about Pop and Thana.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1738727#Comment_1738727
Auto corruption would only encourage survivors to avoid cleansing as much as possible, which would bring back the old way of combating her when plague first came out (i.e. never cleanse). My current method of gaining corrupt purge is to simply chase survivors until they lead me to a corrupt fountain, pick it up, finish the chase, and then spend the next 50 seconds punishing the team for cleansing. While survivors primary strategy is to cleanse at fountains as far from the Plague and gens as possible, they also go out of their own way to do it, which wastes their time, and honestly they can't keep it up forever. Why go to the fountains they chose far away, when they will soon be bringing them close to you?
I've honestly never had much trouble with picking up corrupt purge, it's just not my primary focus as much as keeping them sick and in a 1 shot state is, but even that has it's issues, and while auto corrupt would mean that survivors would be less inclined to cleanse and stay broken, it would also mean that the survivors will either never cleanse or choose to all cleanse at the same time so that you only get 60-70 seconds of corruption, vs having 4 fountains ready each providing 60 seconds of it at your leisure. Either way, it puts them in more control of her power than they currently have, and I'm not much of a fan of that concept (this example is best shown in game by using her Iridescent Seal add-on and having 2-3 gens pop at roughly the same time: 2-3 activations of auto corrupt, but only about 50 seconds of usage for it). At least now, you can pick when you want to start doing ranged damage, even if you sometimes have to go out of your way to do it.
It's not that I think it's too much in the way of making her broken, Instead I feel that it would do the opposite, because unless the auto corruption stacks its seconds every time a survivor cleanses, 4 survivors cleansing simultaneously will only give Plague one corrupt activations worth of time, and if it did stack the time, no one would ever cleanse. You can see where I'm going with this right? When plague first came out, everyone complained that her corrupt purge power is too much in the survivors control, and with the auto corrupt idea, that would be 100% true.
I do however agree that the volume of the "prayer whispers" she hears when she gets corrupt purge needs to be turned down. It currently smothers out all survivor noises aside from screaming. Hell you can accidentally walk by a gen being worked on and not even hear the sounds they make while working on it. I don't get why the devs insist on applying certain sounds to killers base kits that hinder our ability to hunt survivors via the noises they make, all while still giving us a hint in the loading screen telling us to "listen for survivor noises". well devs, which is it? Am I supposed to be able to hunt with sound or not?
Even if we assumed a hypothetical situation where vile purge didn't exist and she had corrupt purge all the time, where would you place Plague? I ask this because I think corrupt purge strength is pretty over exaggerated. In this hypothetical world I still think Plague would be only high A tier with a couple other killers still being better. My point being even if we added all these things (which is much, much less than the hypothetical situation I mentioned) she still wouldn't be top tier so I don't see an issue.
Yes the survivors have to go out of their way to cleanse but that's pretty meaningless when you think about how much time you spent infecting them in the first place and the time you give them in picking it up. IE every 1 second you spend is +3 or 4 seconds for them, so you walking over to pick it up is way, way worse than the time they spent cleansing it there.
I think you missed one of my other changes which involved preventing survivors from cleansing if another survivor already cleansed and you currently have Corrupt. "-Infection cannot be cleansed while Plague is corrupted" This means your scenario of them all cleansing at once couldn't happen.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1737965#Comment_1737965
The reason why plague is not picked is not because she is not good. its because her piping system is extremely messed up right now and its ironic because when they made emblem system more strict to try better reflect skill in the game, Plague was the killer released and she is the worst piping killer in the game probably purely because if the survivor cleanses, the killer get punished for the survivor healing up from fountains in 3rd emblem even though this is only way for plague to get corrupted puke and if you don't cleanse, than your chaser emblem will be practically be silver because becoming broken from sickness does not account as "hits" in chases so you get a lot of instant downs that award little in emblem system. Plagues probably only killer in the game where you can 4 man 5 gen and depip/black pip.
It has been pretty crazy that its been 1 year and half and they still haven't address the problem of Mori's and instant downs robbing killer of their emblem. Plague being worst offender as her instant downs are under the survivor's control.
from looking at her power, Dev probably think Plague is overpowered as hell considering her power is lose/lose for the survivor just like they weakened thano for the "lose/lose" situation so you suggesting changes to buff plague won't happen in a million years.
While I totally agree about her pipping problem I do think the main reason she isn't picked as much is more so about her strength and survivors having control of her power, not the pipping issue. The pipping issue does contribute some I'm sure though.
I'd overall say Plague is pretty weak. It all comes down to how good the survivors are at looping. Good loopers make her really bad as when it comes down to it she's just an extremely loopable m1 killer. She's probably much more punishing to low ranks that don't know how to loop yet.
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My votes on Demo. The majority of his addons are garbage and his best is a grey.
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@TWiXT said:
A couple alternative small buffs that I believe would help plague gain more map pressure and viability in the mid-high ranks:
- Give survivors the Hindered status whenever they vomit for the duration of the vomiting (roughly 1.5-2 seconds). This is a small and periodic de-buff to survivors that makes the Plague more of a threat in a chase but not so much that she becomes OP or too oppressive.
- Also while a survivor vomits, give them a 6m AoE that infects everything within its radius. This allows the sickness to spread throughout the maps less predictably and reduces the workload on the Plague herself. Currently survivors spread the sickness to each other by rescuing an infected survivor, working on a gen with a fully infected survivor or healing a downed infected survivor, all of which require direct interactions, otherwise the Plague has to infect them and objects herself every time. Adding this will make the sickness spread feel more like an actual Plague, apply more pressure to the map for her, make the add-on's that increase infection time on objects more noticeable, increase the chances of the sickness spreading to other survivors, and help her gain the contagious (25bp) scoring events more often.
I believe this is pretty much all she really needs in order to save time and make her more of a threat without breaking her. I've always thought the biggest problems she has are how much of the work she has to do herself in order to get survivors infected in the first place, and encouraging survivors to use the fountains so that she can gain corrupt purge. Instead of spending the majority of her time infecting and re-infecting survivors, theoretically with these changes, all she would have to do is infect 1 or 2 survivors, and let them spread it to the rest of their team. On top of that, with survivors experiencing small slowdowns during a chase against a 115% movement speed killer, who can one shot them at this point, they'd become much more inclined to cleanse at fountains asap instead of waiting until there's only 1 gen left or the gates are powered. Overall these would allow her to apply better pressure, and save her time so she can focus more on tracking and downing survivors, which is really all she needs in order to become a better and more viable killer IMO.
Is this suggestion too much or too little? What do you guys think?
I like both changes. I worry it isn't enough though.
You think the auto acquiring Corrupt is too much?
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@TheClownIsKing said:
The two ideas I like here are that, yes, some adjustments to the velocity of her power needs to be adjusted now that ping to dedicated servers has handicapped her immensely.
I also like the idea of reduced TR. I was thinking instead though if there were a stage 2 sickness where the survivor is also now permanently afflicted with Oblivious until cleansed.
@Boss i’m actually ok with her height, thus her visibility. It’s necessary for the sake of balance when she does carry CP. Her visibility is only an issue when survivors refuse to cleanse, and has nothing to help at loops, and the occasional bug that gets her stuck in doorways, staircases, or anything else hanging low enough.
I like that idea with Oblivious as well but I leaned on the more conservative change just because I figured people would think it was too much for lower rank players. Against good survivors though the Oblivious would be totally fine probably.
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Why wouldn't it be better to just make DS better at preventing tunneling and less frustrating for killer by fixing the abusable parts of it that aren't tunneling?
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Pretty much only solo. I think playing with swf gives too much of an advantage and it feels like we're bullying people since the game isn't balanced for it.
Per your other comment, the swf rates are actually significantly high, especially the higher rank you go. There's almost always at least a 2 man for sure with a decent chance of 3 or 4 at rank 1.
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Just that it's still coming and is running in the background to gather more information. I'm actually surprised they've kept it down this long. I suppose they felt like it needed a lot more game data than it currently had to be more accurate. It was extremely inaccurate on its last release. No set ETA on release though.
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@Penfighter said:
I have an addition to your list: Ranked Pips!
Doing research on the Plague for some videos, I played exactly 25 matches with her and only gained a pip twice, and never two pips. Even when scoring over 30,000 points, I'd often just get the safety pip. One match where I got three of them, the last took Hatch, and I got Gold on hooks, I still lost a pip. Something has to be done to balance out her scoring in regards to ranked. You lose so many points for them cleansing all their ailments so easily, fewer hits (IE, they get broken from Vile Purge so you only get a few hits in for your chases), and the shortened match time from lack of healing means they do gens sooo fast you never get above silver in generator defense.
Fix plz? (I made a thread in suggestions btw!)
The issues causing this actually effects a few other killers for similar reasons as well. They need pipping tweaks on those killers taking into consideration how their downs work. Plague is probably the most effected by this though.
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@Malum_Midnight said:
Side note, I was playing customs and was using her blight cosmetic (just bought it at the time). I puked on a survivor, they made the coughing sound, but they weren’t sick. The survivor also confirmed they made the sound as was puked on. This was during the blight event 2020
I pointed that issue out in my last change. "-Vomit working better around ping related issues"
This has been happening since dedicated servers came in a long time ago and still exists.
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@Malum_Midnight said:
I dont play plague very much, but I feel its kind of weird that a pallet stun gets rid of her purge. If plague mains could chime in, would this be a good buff to her?
I'm actually okay with this counter play existing. It makes her power stronger between loops rather than at loops similar to Blight.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I agree with these. It mostly boils down to a philosophical issue with how the devs view survivor time vs killer time. It seems that they view them as more or less equal.
It's so much more costly for Plague to go out of her way to pick up a fountain than it is for a survivor to go out of their way to solo heal at a fountain. It actually costs the survivors nothing many times, because at least two survivors would be occupied healing against another killer. But against Plague, it's one survivor healing on a fountain in less time than a normal heal.
Plague has a glaring issue with game speed. The nature of her power takes away the natural stalling of heals, and fountains only occupy one survivor for less time than a normal heal. On top of that, Corrupt Purge is usually not powerful enough to make up the difference. She's a killer that gives every survivor a medkit if she uses her power, and she's not guaranteed a viable reward.
I hate to say it, but she's just really poorly designed.
You summarized quite a few of my thoughts about Plague as well.
"It mostly boils down to a philosophical issue with how the devs view survivor time vs killer time."
^^ This especially. They don't seem to realize that every 1 second spent as killer is 3-4 seconds given to survivors. Killers time spent needs to be significantly faster or the survivors time spent needs to be significantly slower to compensate. They treat it like a 1:1 and it's simply not. This problem applies to a lot of killers as well, not just Plague. This is why I feel they treat the game as a 1 vs 1 instead of a 1v4, which is where the balance problems come from.
I also think people vastly over value how good Corrupt Purge is. Especially when you consider the time spent to infect each survivor that gave you that Corrupt Purge in the first place. When you add that time in, even a super fast down with Corrupt Purge wasn't actually "fast" after all. It also usually isn't fast against a good survivor anyway. I can loop a Corrupt Purge for quite a while.
Hypothetically if Plague was just Corrupt Purge all game and there was no Vile Purge at all would she be OP? Not saying we should do this, just to make a point though about the power level of Corrupt Purge. She might be high A tier in this hypothetical scenario but she still wouldn't be better than a few other killers even with that.