Blueberry
Blueberry
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Fungoose
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Totally fine addons and we need more of them.
Currently Exhaustion perks have near zero downsides or skill requirements bar some small exceptions and for a game swinging effect that can be used multiple times on multiple survivors. There's a reason every single person runs them.
There is currently zero reason not to always be running an exhaustion perk other than just meme'ing for simply not caring about winning. That isn't good design.
I should look at the exhaustion perks and start weighing the pros and cons to decide if it fits my build or if I want to play around them. This currently is not the case.
If exhaustion perks are going to be kept in a win/win state there needs to at least be more counters for them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I love how the first sentence in every response starts with "I'm Rank 1."
Ego's much?
It isn't ego, it just simply points out that they at least have some idea of what they're doing.
It makes their opinions more credible.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686468#Comment_1686468
That would split the player base though and i don't think DBD could afford to do that.
And i think it would create even more problems then it could solve
The playerbase has increased substantially in general and with cross play.
I think it is a contentious solution but I don't think the other options would work.
I can't see the devs ever buffing killers to the extent they would need to in order to compensate for such a substantial buff to solo players.
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I think they'd be better off with a ranked/unranked queue to fix the SWF problem.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686243#Comment_1686243
His fatigue is not slow at all. He is barely punished from it.
Gas heaven, wreckers yard, azarovs resting place, Thompson house sometimes(jungle gyms make up for it).
Seems plenty long enough to get to loops for me.
Most those have a plethora of pallets. Azarovs I'd agree is low though.
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Why?
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Seeing as longer chases are more fun for both sides, I think the better solution would be to slow the game down so that we can enjoy the longer chases without it costing the game so fast.
As opposed to the opposite which would be to shorten chases to allow them to keep up with gen speeds.
So yeah kinda what you were saying.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1686229#Comment_1686229
The problem with that is he has minimal fatigue a problem my friend and I have noticed. He messes up and misses a hit her he can recover fast? Combine that with tne lack of pallets on some maps he gets a free hit no matter what.
He has addons that can make it faster. It general though it is quite slow and plenty of time to reach a loop.
I don't think maps have any lack of pallets to combine with that, if anything most have too many. Definitely not free hits.
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Literally just loop him like every other killer. He used his power? Use the amazing power of stand behind a rock and circle it till he cancels his power. Now you run to the closest loop. That easy.
Most people make the mistake of running when he uses his power. Just stop running and stand behind an object.
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I find it weird when people say it's boring mending all game. Like how many times are ya'll actually mending?
If you/your team is/are playing smart you aren't healing. "Generally speaking", if you are already injured he's very rarely going to FF you to make you mend.
So people that are actually mending "a lot" to me are finding Legion annoying because they are playing badly in the first place. I mend 1-3 times max a game and that's even being a little generous and assuming a couple FF's for location pings while injured which doesn't even happen that often.
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685976#Comment_1685976
I agree on a comment that I think SWF needs a solution and that comms are a advatange (not unfair IMO but a advatange, yes they are)
Thing is if you look at OP's comment you can see a bit "Us vs them" and I looked at older thread history of him and he likes to do that.
Imo OP should do another thread with the things I mentioned, He didn't even bother saying why solo's play SWF, why SWF is a problem, Why SWF needs a fix, Bringing a solution to SWF, buffing solos.. Literally nothing, that's why pretty much this thread turned into a us vs them
"comms are a advatange (not unfair IMO but a advatange, yes they are)"
What makes them seem fair to you? To me it is unfair because the game isn't properly balanced around it and it is using an outside program not available to other players in game.
"Thing is if you look at OP's comment you can see a bit "Us vs them" and I looked at older thread history of him and he likes to do that."
I'm judging the post itself, not his history of posts. His history could have a lot of "us vs them", I haven't looked, but we're talking about this one, not the others.
"Imo OP should do another thread with the things I mentioned, He didn't even bother saying why solo's play SWF, why SWF is a problem, Why SWF needs a fix, Bringing a solution to SWF, buffing solos.. Literally nothing, that's why pretty much this thread turned into a us vs them"
He actually did explain why SWF is a problem and why it needs fixing. Although it was not in the original post which would have been better I agree.
It seems your issue is more how he went about his post rather than disagreeing with the point itself, of which I could agree with that. You seem to have changed your original stance on the topic somewhat. Your original point seemed to be disagreeing with his premise, not the wording.
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685953#Comment_1685953
I will comment this quick cause I dont really have time:
OP's didn't bring a solution to SWF problems, Reasons why people play swf, problem fixes to solo q, buffs to killers and etc.
Pretty much on my POV this is a us vs them thread or just another swf thread, this has no solution, no fixed pretty much a pointless thread.
"OP's didn't bring a solution to SWF problems"
That is a rational point of which I agree. Solutions could have been offered by OP.
"Pretty much on my POV this is a us vs them thread"
I think that's a little bit of a stretch. His post just seemed like someone frustrated with some issues with the game that many people share. I didn't get an us vs them vibe from it at all.
As I said, I agree some constructive options for the problem should have been added or at least asking for ideas. However, most the posts including yours denies that there is a problem in the first place. So you're making the argument that he didn't provide solutions to a problem that you don't even think exists.
Just saying that we shouldn't really even be nit picking solutions until we can even agree on the basis of the discussion in the first place.
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@Kamizake12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685904#Comment_1685904
It really isn't a strawman, it's just a fact. Most killer mains act like if you press SWF you become god like, and that they always go against 1% swf.
Now tell me, why should be balance around the 1%, when this game isn't built around the 1% and isn't a competitive game? (It has a leaderboard so newbies dont suffer)...
"What they are saying is that SWF/comms gives an unfair advantage aka "cheating" by definition of the word. If we don't agree there then I can start linking definitions."
It gives an advatange, oh yeah. Cheating? No, if it was cheating it would already been fixed, why it isn't fixed then? Oh yeah! Maybe cause devs dont consider it cheating, and if devs dont consider it cheating, then sorry but you need to accept that isn't cheating.
"The point isn't removal of SWF before we start on that strawman either. The point is to find a way to balance around it, IE ranked/unranked queues etc. If you want to have a discussion on pros/cons of the different potential solutions then that would be a fair place to start, but we can't even begin to find a solution if you/others don't see that there is a problem in the first place."
Yes, we need a solution. Thing is most solution brought to the table literally kills or punishes people for playing with friends.
IF we want a solution, we should accept first that not every survivor is a god like team.
That we shouldn't punish people for playing with their friends.
That WE shouldn't bring sepate queue modes cause that would increase the queue times (in general)
Which we have not yet achieved.
"It really isn't a strawman, it's just a fact. Most killer mains act like if you press SWF you become god like, and that they always go against 1% swf."
It is a strawman by definition. It is making an argument against a point that isn't being made, that is a strawman. SWF to some extent, but more so comms, gives an insane amount of perks to you past the normal 4 that you would normally never have access too.
Do you not agree that a survivor having 10 perks in a match is insanely stronger than 4 and that you are only intended to have 4?
Also, my point and OP's point have absolutely nothing to do with facing top 1% so I don't know why you even bring that up. That has nothing to do with the point of this topic.
The point of this topic is that SWF/comms gives an unfair advantage that they would not have by normal means. Whether they are rank 15 or rank 1 is irrelevant to the point.
"Now tell me, why should be balance around the 1%, when this game isn't built around the 1% and isn't a competitive game? (It has a leaderboard so newbies dont suffer)..."
While I do think the game should be balanced around high ranks that once again has literally nothing do with this topic whatsoever, please stay on topic of OP's post.
"It gives an advatange, oh yeah. Cheating? No, if it was cheating it would already been fixed, why it isn't fixed then? Oh yeah! Maybe cause devs dont consider it cheating, and if devs dont consider it cheating, then sorry but you need to accept that isn't cheating."
I can start linking the definitions if you would like. Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage, of which this fits that criteria. Just because the devs haven't fixed it yet does not imply it isn't cheating, that isn't rational. They haven't fixed it because they don't know how. Whether they consider it cheating or not is irrelevant, whether it is cheating or not is determined by definition of the word.
"Yes, we need a solution. Thing is most solution brought to the table literally kills or punishes people for playing with friends."
Of which none of those solutions I agree with as I do not want them punished at all.
What your post should have been, is stating that we haven't been able to think of a solution that fixes the problem without harming friends playing together, or asking us what ideas we have to fix the problem. However instead your argument is that there simply is no problem and misrepresenting our points.
"IF we want a solution, we should accept first that not every survivor is a god like team."
You literally just straw manned the exact same argument that I pointed out was a strawman earlier. The argument is not whether swf/comms makes players godlike. The argument is that is gives an unfair advantage. Whether that makes them "godlike" is irrelevant to the point being made.
"That WE shouldn't bring sepate queue modes cause that would increase the queue times"
This would have been a much more rational point to base around instead of the other points you made. This is something we can actually have a meaningful discussion on. Your other points misunderstand what is being said by others and denies the problem exists in itself.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Why cant Killers accept that SWF does not mean that they become godlike players by just clicking a Button to invite other players to their lobby?
This is such a strawman argument.
"SWF does not mean that they become godlike players by just clicking a Button to invite other players to their lobby"
You are making an argument against something that the OP and others are not arguing.
They are not saying that SWF and comms makes players godlike.
What they are saying is that SWF/comms gives an unfair advantage aka "cheating" by definition of the word. If we don't agree there then I can start linking definitions.
The point isn't removal of SWF before we start on that strawman either. The point is to find a way to balance around it, IE ranked/unranked queues etc. If you want to have a discussion on pros/cons of the different potential solutions then that would be a fair place to start, but we can't even begin to find a solution if you/others don't see that there is a problem in the first place.
@Justalittlepeeck summarized many of these points on this page already. We want a game to be lost from getting outplayed, not because the other side was by definition "cheating".
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Honestly this is so far in the complete opposite direction the perk needs to go that I thought this was a joke. No sarcasm.
Not only does it not need to be base kit or get buffs, but it literally needs a rework/nerf. It's way too strong for what it does while asking zero skill, zero downside, zero cost, nothing.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1684333#Comment_1684333
Survivors don't have this stupid "power role" either. It's whichever side is better than the other because it's a multiplayer. Can people stop saying "power role"? It's so pathetic that people want BHVR to make a particular side stronger than the other...in a multiplayer PvP game. If you're better at the game than the other side you're going to win. If you're not then you lose.
Both sides equal skill level you will lose as killer every time unless they mess up. That is the "power role".
And yes, one side does need to be stronger, it's a 1v4, not 1v1.
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Just because there's more of them I'd rather the corn maps first.
That said, Haddonfield and Ormond do need reworks badly.
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The game stops being scary and losses its horror aspect when you realize the killer isn't the power role.
While not entirely solving the issue, the game would seem much scarier if they were.
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She's got a lot of bugs but they're almost all related to server ping. The dedicated servers hurt her a lot.
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I just think Deep Wound should apply Oblivious status until it's removed. Would make players make sure they're in a safer spot before mending.
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I'm assuming we're talking licensed.
Alien is still at the top of my list.
While not really licensed I still really want to see The Boogeyman.
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I only really mind the loops that are strung together to an abusable extent or the loops that have low walls/holes in the wall to where they can see you the entire time. Those aren't mind games, those are time wasters. That isn't fun.
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I can counter the hackers I've seen on one hand after thousands and thousands of hours on PC. I tend to think you may be misinterpreting game mechanics for hacking.
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Those players have tried to help them many, many times throughout the years already.
They listen, think they know better, and then do what they want. Which usually ends up being the opposite of what everyone wanted changed.
While I don't think those players get literally everything right, in general the game would be in a better state if we did get most their changes.
I really want to see an open conversation on skype/discord with the games balance team and some of the top streamers about the games balance. This would shed a lot of light on the games problems and do well for their PR.
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How? I don't run DS or Unbreakable and have no issues with tunnelers or campers for the most part. Spine Chill is unneeded if you just keep your eyes open bar a small couple maps.Dead Hard for extending loops is necessary? What? lol. You are relying on a lot of second chance perks.
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It was decent enough to be worth considering over those other 2 for certain builds/killers. However they "fixed" the bug to where it goes off once the gen regresses to 0 which was actually a massive nerf to an already under used perk. Now I don't think it's worth considering over the other 2 anymore. Maybe with how much stronger Ruin is now with Undying it makes up for the nerf, but that's a maybe.
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Windstorm and yellow clapper at base. Make his stealth actually stealth, not terrible camo.
Now he's much better.
The issue with him and Trapper are that they're both way too addon dependent. Their base kits are terrible.
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Higher skill requirement killers to me: Huntress, Blight, Spirit, Hag, Deathslinger
"Most" the other killers just require basic knowledge of looping/mind game/map pressure mechanics that are universal to all killers. The killers I mentioned require that same knowledge, but also ask you to learn additional mind games or aiming skills attached to their power as well, so there's a lot more to learn than some of the more basic m1 killers.
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You literally didn't even read my post did you?
"You are asking to take away a survivors chance at surviving tunneled"
No, I am not. If you read my post I said I want the perk to counter tunneling, which is literally giving it the exact use you want it for.
"I used DS for 2 months and rarely used it"
DS is giving you value even if it doesn't activate because it forces the killer to play around assuming you have it, which is playing a way that loses him the game against good survivors. You are getting extreme value out of it regardless of activation.
"then I took it off. And holy he'll. The tunneling, bruh. Every match ive been in, I get hounded. As soon as I'm off the hook, here's the killer chasing me till I'm down again or hitting me right off the hook."
So first you don't get tunneled at all for 2 months and now you say you get tunneled every single time you get off the hook...
Common man, be honest, that doesn't make any sense. I play solo queue regularly and almost never get tunneled. You are either being misleading about what's actually happening or you are playing very badly.
"You aren't entitled to the kill, especially if you tunnel."
What are you even talking about? Not a single thing I've said leads to this statement. I literally said that I want the perk to counter tunneling...and you interpret that as "he wants to tunnel".
If you don't agree with making DS be an anti-tunnel perk then it seems like you want the perk to be abusable for non-tunneling situations which is not its intention. You aren't entitled to free escapes man.
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They mentioned that Clown was next.
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I would say more often than not they are too far away, rather than too close.
That said, why shouldn't they always be closer in the scenario you're describing?
You already had a free second chance attempt at hatch for nothing and now you want another second chance after your team lost?
Not to mention all the previous second chances you could have had with perks that exist. Now I'm not counting those because you might not run them, but common, when's the last game you had where there wasn't some combination of at least 2-4 DS's, BT's, or Unbreakables? Almost every single game.
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I never take Iron Will off my roster. It just makes the game more fun as it opens up more possibilities for jukes that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Mind games are what makes the game fun to me.
Unfortunately for killer you just always have to take one of the 3 slow down perks (pop, surge, ruin). I say unfortunately because you are running one of them because you're basically forced to if you want a chance at winning against good survivors, not because you actually want to run them. Unlike my survivor choice where it's basically for fun, not necessity. You feel forced into more of your perks as killer.
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As other have said ad nauseum already, it exists to fix a problem but ends up creating a problem just as big if not bigger itself.
The perk needs deactivation conditions for progressing the game, IE gens/totems/healing etc. If you're progressing the game then you aren't being tunneled. The perk currently goes way, way past its anti-tunnel purpose and has become just a 1 minute immunity that is highly abusable.
Just saying to slug them is being either extremely disingenuous or simply not experienced enough with the game to understand what that fully entails. If you leave them they Unbreakable and if you pick them up you eat a DS. Either one of those scenarios loses you the game against good survivors. You cannot afford to waste time downing a survivor to have them just get away with zero time gained, killers simply do not have the time for that.
Every 1 second you waste as a killer on one survivor is 3 seconds gained by the survivors as the other three are on gens. So even if we assume you are an amazing killer and get them down in <20 seconds, that just gave the other survivors 60 seconds on gens..for free if you leave him and he has Unbreakable..or you eat a DS stun to lose those 20 seconds AND whatever extra time it takes you to then find and chase someone else. This is a massive amount of time lost for one survivor...now stick that whole scenario on 3 others as well...
Losing that time if the killer is trying to tunnel someone is totally fine, the issue and why people are upset is when you get forced to lose that time even if you don't want to tunnel because they jump on a gen/totem etc progressing the game and you are forced into a lose/lose scenario from them using it aggressively.
Make it an anti-tunnel perk, not a 1 minute immunity perk. This is all people are asking for.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1673555#Comment_1673555
The MMR system is on in the background, checking what MMR people are matched with whom and checking the outcome. Every game that comes in is another data point on the MMR system's predictive power. It's just that we're not choosing who goes against whom using the MMR.
How is it calculating win/lose rates with disconnects or suicides on hooks?
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1671389#Comment_1671389
I don't mean it that complex.
More along the lines like you build walls the same way PH does his trails only they have colision and can be broken etc. You release bigger toxic clouds that last longer and have additions effects like clown and maybe spawn some kind of puzzple boxes like pig or something. Things like that but combined into one power.
Nothing that would need major work, only alter already existing assets into new ones that work together with new effects.
Oh then yeah then that seems manageable.
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I think you'd run into some of the same issues and reasons that the moon bouquets were removed. They were removed because it was a lot of extra programming to work every single current map and new map that comes out with those features. Similar to the reason Tinkerer was reworked, it made them have to do a lot of extra programming around all the new addons and killers that came out in the future just for that one perk.
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I don't understand how many times this has to be said, it is meant to be bad. It is supposed to be a hard mode for those that want the challenge.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1670082#Comment_1670082
He'd still be underwhelming vs all rank 1 good players than again I consider like 90% of the killers to be jokes vs good players so there is that. If I don't feel like i am getting threatened while playing survivor at rank 1 than its always learn to play issue. Its even more hilarious that Wraith has sound across walls, a global bell sound and perfectly visible camouflage for a "stealth" killers after 3 years. I know he's balancing for rank 20 new players but like if you look other games... like dota or even league of legends invisible(Twitch), DBD really spoon feeds players, even look at new trail of torment perk, they still think that showing yellow generator is "good" game design for stealth and are unable to accept that game-sense should be part of skill-cap of playing survivor even after changing the perk. Windstorm and bone clapper won't change anything.
"He'd still be underwhelming vs all rank 1 good players than again I consider like 90% of the killers to be jokes vs good players so there is that"
I'm not disagreeing with this statement. I'm saying solid vs the average players. As you said, the vast majority of the killers are non viable against "good survivors".
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Honestly just windstorm and bone clapper base kit. Now he's actually quite solid.
I personally still think his "invisibility" should be actually invisible like Freddy at a distance, where his real giveaways are moving grass and his very loud grunts. His stealth is currently pretty underwhelming.
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Realizing that some matches are simply unwinnable.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1667091#Comment_1667091
I think that's a big issue a lot of people have, is it forces them to bring something they don't usually do. But there are so, so many things that just straight up show you where a totem is that I don't really think it's a problem. On the subject of the aura reading, I think it's fine but if it does get a nerf I hope that's all that gets removed. Getting rid of the totem switching idea would make the perk pretty mediocre. Not terrible, but not good either. That's another good point - this meta basically gives anyone with Soul Guard a better version of Unbreakable.
I would say forces them to run something they don't normally use is a strong use of the words. I don't think any of those perks are necessary at all, they just make it easier. Totems in general are pretty easy to find. Even on the harder to find maps they aren't bad as you usually don't even need to "find" them, you just run from room to room listening until you hear the crackling fire sound as the totems are extremely loud. Probably 80% of the time I find totems just because I heard them, not actually saw them.
As I mentioned it's also pretty easy just to ignore the totems entirely and not even waste the time looking.
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I agree that we do need more meta changes like that to keep the game play more fresh.
I personally wouldn't nerf Undying at all as I think it's actually adequately strong enough for the high risk involved. If that's the first totem cleansed you just lost a perk slot for nothing, so it needs to be strong. The vast majority of the games hex perks are not strong enough for being hex's which is why no one runs them.
The counter play for popular hex builds is there anyway, lots of people just refuse to give up one of their meta slots for something like Small Game. For how popular those perks are or even NOED for that matter, you will get good value from it the vast majority of games.
I personally just ignore the hex's entirely, run Soul Guard to take advantage of the situation, and just pump the gens out.
Not to mention this build isn't passive, meaning the killer actually has to be good at pressuring the map to even get good value out of it.
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What should be changed based on community feedback and what will change are two totally different things.
Thanata needs significantly higher numbers, like at least 2% more. Unless they really bump the numbers up this was a significant nerf to a perk that was already bad.
Cruel Limits needs to be around the killer, not the gen that was completed, and probably last a good bit longer.
Technician needs to completely silence a gen being worked on.
WGLF should give tokens for getting people off the ground.
Lulllaby needs a lot, it was terrible and it got nerfed. Make it's effect be permanent at whatever stacks it had before it was cleansed. Cleansing it just prevents the stacks from getting higher. It's just too weak of an effect for how risky hex perks are.
Forced Penance just needs an additional effect. No one cares about the Broken status effect. It was bad at 60 seconds and it's still bad at 80. It's a highly situational perk for a weak effect. Even with this buff no one will run this. If you buff something and it's still bad enough that no one will run it then that was a waste of time.
PH needs his Rites of Judgement attack to be faster so it's less easy to dodge and the recovery needs another second taken off of it.
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@LuffyBlack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662283#Comment_1662283
It's so weird seeing you without the Spirit display pic
I actually haven't had the Spirit display pic for at least 6 months.
I just change it to whatever I'm currently having the most fun on at the moment.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662326#Comment_1662326
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662270#Comment_1662270
Having to give up a perk slot for something that the killer might not even use, because matches don't have a pre-determined outcome isn't a real counter.
If most games they are running them, it's worth. If that many games happen where they aren't, then why are we even having this discussion since it's not an issue?
Between Undying/Ruin/NOED it is going to be worth it most of the time, so yes, it is a real counter.
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@BitingSea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662294#Comment_1662294
I like that idea a lot. I feel the 4 second stun makes Dirt + Joey Tape way too good compared to other addons and I just wanted to spice up some addons for some extra use out of Frenzy while it's active. The oblivious status may be a bit much though, I feel like it should get it's own little effect where it basically gives the survivor a personal M&A with a 16m reduce to what the survivor hears. But I feel like doubling back on a frenzy victim doesn't happen often, but I guess that'd be a good buff for when it does occur. I just feel like them being oblivious could backfire heavily on Legion because if that survivor is in a SWF using OoO they could keep sprinting to maintain Deep Wound for that oblivious effect for the info.
"But I feel like doubling back on a frenzy victim doesn't happen often, but I guess that'd be a good buff for when it does occur."
It currently doesn't happen because there isn't an Oblivious effect so the survivor knows exactly what you're doing, AKA no reason to double back. If they actually had Oblivious you would now have a reason to.
I wouldn't say OoO is a reason to not have this change because that is an issue with OoO itself and that perk needs a rework in general.
We could make it just a deafen, I suppose that could work seeing as you wouldn't hear the TR anymore either. Even better it would prevent you from hearing this fatigue noise which Oblivious wouldn't block.
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While his addons could use some tweaking they aren't his main issues.
I'd personally reduce his fatigue by 1 second, get rid of the reduced power bar on basic m1's, and make Deep Wounds also apply Oblivious status.
This gives him some more play styles and makes survivors be a little more careful with just instantly Mending like they do now. You could pretend to leave where they assume you're going to spread FF more but instead double back while they are mending with Oblivious.
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Pink maps are actually pretty decent in a totem build with Inner Strength, QnQ, Head On etc.
Especially while were in a hex meta.