Batusalen
Batusalen
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An average of both MMRs. There is also special rules applied for winning or losing MMR when you are in a SWF:
Team-based MMR
If Survivors queue up together with friends, playing as a group (Survive with Friends), their final MMR score is influenced by what happened to the other Survivors queueing up with them:
- For each team mate that escapes:
- Increased gains towards MMR upon escaping.
- Reduced losses towards MMR upon dying.
- For each team mate that dies:
- Reduced gains towards MMR upon escaping.
- Increased losses towards MMR upon dying.
This was implemented to counter situations in which team mates sacrificed themselves for the survival of the others and were punished for their altruism by the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating.
More info in the wiki: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating
- For each team mate that escapes:
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@Atom7k said:
I think people underestimate how much time this perk actually steals from the killer.
The times of survivors beeing overly stealthy are gone and looping is more and more common. Therefor having a single perk that shows you EVERY RESOURCE in your reach is completly broken.
When looping a killer resources like windows and pallets are crucial to gain distance, extend the chase, burn more of the killers time and escape.
There is a meta build out of windows of opportunity, resiliance, lithe and adrenalin. This build relies almost entirely on windows of opportunity. Survivors will try to bait you in a chase because they know where the resources are.
You cannot drop every chase with a woo user and it needs an atrocious amount of time to catch one.
This being said if you don't catch a survivor in a bad position this perk alone will extend the chase for a significant amount of time. This add's up when multiple people are using this perk.
Thats why it's too strong. Time is curcial for a killer and a perk which burns time in great amounts, is active without conditions infinitely is absolutely broken
Suggestions:
- Windows of opportunity only activates when in chase
- Max range is reduced from 32 meters to 28 (20/24/28)
- Once a pallet got dropped or a window/pallet is fast vaulted the perk goes on cooldown for 8 (12/10/8) seconds.
- You gain a stack for each pallet you dropped, window/pallet you fast vaulted in chase. At 4 stacks the perk deactivates until you are out of chase for 30 seconds, then all stacks are removed.
Oh believe me, people know exactly how much of a problem this perk is (it is the number 1 perk used by survivors for a reason). The thing is everybody plays dumb the moment the nerfing talk starts.
Things that you are going to see in any WoO post:
- It is a perk for new players, even if it is behind a DLC survivor and most people that just started playing the game would not even know the perk exist.
- It is not useful when you learn the maps, but you would see it mainly when you reach high MMR. There is a lot of people that still doesn't know the maps after hundreds of hours, apparently.
- You still need to know how to loop, even if most people that use WoO would just simply press W and go from pallet to pallet.
- Won't somebody please think of the SoloQ survivors!!!???... even if a SWF would mostly only inform of killer shack and most people would still use it even in a group.
- It is not that strong and not that many people use it, even if it has a 35% use in Nightlight and you see at least 3 per match most of the time.
And so, here we are.
And about your suggestions, I like the stacks one, but I would make it only 2. 4 stacks can basically be 4 pallets, which can be a whole gen at the speeds they get done nowdays.
EDIT: The perfect example of a WoO advocate.
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614855#Comment_3614855
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614909#Comment_3614909
If a Survivor constantly pre-drops and takes no risk, then ya know what that means?
1: Chances are, they are not that good at looping when they run out of safe/god pallets.
2: For every pallet that's dropped (and that you broke) that's one less loop for him or other Survivors later on.
3: After everything's been pre-dropped, nearly every chases are free unless they find a strong window.
And if worst comes to worst and the Survivor can handle himself even without pre-dropping? There is no shame in dropping chase. In fact if you can't get a hit in around 30 seconds then you should consider leaving the chase anyway since 30 seconds is around 33% of a gen without perks/items/great skill checks.
WoO is the most newcomer-friendly perk and makes the new player experience much more bearable until you know the maps enough to play without it. It's especially good for SoloQ and newcomers since they can't/don't know what has been used and where are the deadzones (while SWF teams and/or experienced players have some of that information).
If you gut Windows it'll hit newcomers/casuals hard. It's not exactly complicated to understand that WoO, just like Distortion, does NOT make a Survivor better at the game. Sure Windows can make a chase a tad more difficult (at least more so than it should be if facing a newcomer or casual player) but all those dropped pallets are gonna be missing later and eventually the Survivors won't have anything and chases will become easy.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614792#Comment_3614792
Who knows? The system doesn't even work most of the time.
Maybe if our MMR was public, we could see if the system works or not...
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@[Deleted User] said:
Why do so many people keep saying there's no win condition? What do people think is the mechanism that causes MMR to move up or down?
The magic of friendship, apparently.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614751#Comment_3614751
Dude, you are describing exactly how a ranked system works to argue that the game is not ranked.That doesn't sound like anything I said.
Here's your original sentence that I first commented on
Funny that you don't see the contradiction in saying "It is a party game" continued with "Escape/kills highten your MMR".If you want to play DbD casually and just enjoy, you can. If you want to play it extremely competitively, you can. The MMR will put you into brackets related to how you play and, broadly, match you against similar player types. (generally speaking, with the system breaking down more outside peak hours)
The mistake, which most people make, is also related to a comment of yours
So, doesn't matter if you had looped the killer for 5 minutes, repaired 4 gens by yourself or if you had left every survivor at last hook during the match, if you end up losing is -20 MMR rating for you.Things like this don't matter mathematically. If you are player who is some combination of skilled/sweaty you will escape/kill more. Any individual game will have variance, but it will not impact the overall MMR in a meaningful way. Put simply, if you have enough data about outcomes, you don't need to know how the outcomes were arrived at for sorting players.
The way you play will impact where you end up in the MMR. Play it casually, expect to get more players who are also casual.
Well, they are wrong. A party game, by definition, is what I described.Not sure where you are going for a definition as I see no formal definition of the phrase 'party game'. I see a British definition of 'games played at a party' which is axiomatic. I see a wikipedia article with no sources for the phrase. I see a video game definition of games consisting of short mini-games, which DbD has never been anywhere close to being.
And true, every party game can be a played as a competitive game if you set additional rules on top of it, in fact Tetris is playedDbD has no win condition. Every person talking about wins and losses is literally doing what you describe here, taking a party game and putting additional win conditions on it to make it not a party game.
If you want to play DbD casually and just enjoy, you can. If you want to play it extremely competitively, you can. The MMR will put you into brackets related to how you play and, broadly, match you against similar player types.
You mean like any skill based ranking system in the world, again? Because guess what? If you play it casually, you would lose (something that you should not mind if you play the game "just for fun" anyways), so you are going to have a low MMR, ergo you are going to be paired with other people that have a low MMR. Even your mind gymnastics contradicts your point!
Things like this don't matter mathematically. If you are player who is some combination of skilled/sweaty you will escape/kill more. [...]
That part was about the MMR system "taking in count your skill" and what the dev said. It has nothing to do with the game being or not being a party game as it will not be a party game even if it would count everything you do in the match to rank you with a system like ELO (a system that would be so much better for a game like DbD that the current MMR, by the way, even if way more complex).
The way you play will impact where you end up in the MMR. Play it casually, expect to get more players who are also casual.
Again, yeah, that's what an skill rated based system is for. Still don't know how this makes the game a party game and not a competitive PvP game, specially when this kind of system are used in high skill ceiling competitive games to avoid the top people crushing on the low skill newcomers. If it was a party game with a low skill ceiling it would not need such a system.
Not sure where you are going for a definition as I see no formal definition of the phrase 'party game'. [...]
So, basically you find things like this, which directly contradicts you and proves me right:
Party games are games that are played at social gatherings to facilitate interaction and provide entertainment and recreation."Party video games are commonly designed as a collection of simple minigames, designed to be intuitive and easy to control, and allow for competition between many players. Some, like the Mario Party series and Sonic Shuffle, are played on simulated game boards."
And your response is making excuses and more mental gymnastics to justify it not being an acceptable definition? Dude...
I see a video game definition of games consisting of short mini-games, which DbD has never been anywhere close to being.
You know why? Because DbD never was a party video game. Shocking, I know.
DbD has no win condition.
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614773#Comment_3614773
Again, from the wiki:
Survivors
Survivors gain points towards their MMR by escaping from ranked Trials and lose points for dying:
- Dying in the Trial is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Escaping through the Hatch is considered a draw.
- Escaping through the Exit Gate is considered a win towards MMR.
Important: the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating only considers the escape of a Survivor through the Exit Gate when calculating its final MMR score, and does not care how much that Survivor contributed towards the main objectives during the Trial itself.
Killers
Killers gain points towards their MMR for killing Survivors in ranked Trials and lose points if they manage to escape:
- Killing 0 or 1 Survivor(s) is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Killing 2 Survivors is considered a draw.
- Killing 3 or 4 Survivors is considered a win towards MMR.
Important: the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating only considers the death of Survivors (or their failure to escape) when calculating its final MMR score, and does not care how that death occurred.
Whether a Survivor died because of being sacrificed, being killed by the Killer's own hand, or being bled-out, or even how many times they were hooked, is of no concern to the MMR system, they will all count as kills.
There you have your "win condition". It is a ranked system in all ways possible and I still don't know why you all insist in negate the empirical evidence.
It has, you are wrong. Also, even if it didn't, I don't know how that would mean anything. I mean, many party games have win and lose conditions, so according to your logic this makes any game that has one not a party game?...
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614136#Comment_3614136
The fact that mmr is hidden and insanely loose is evidence it's a 'party game'.
MMR was introduced purely to separate the casuals from the sweats precisely so people didn't need to play competitively all the time.
It is not a ranking system in any meaningful way.
The fact that there is no defined win condition and no way to objectively evaluate skill, both of which are essential for a true ranking system, means it can never be a truly competitive game.
Again, from the wiki:
Survivors
Survivors gain points towards their MMR by escaping from ranked Trials and lose points for dying:
- Dying in the Trial is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Escaping through the Hatch is considered a draw.
- Escaping through the Exit Gate is considered a win towards MMR.
Important: the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating only considers the escape of a Survivor through the Exit Gate when calculating its final MMR score, and does not care how much that Survivor contributed towards the main objectives during the Trial itself.
Killers
Killers gain points towards their MMR for killing Survivors in ranked Trials and lose points if they manage to escape:
- Killing 0 or 1 Survivor(s) is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Killing 2 Survivors is considered a draw.
- Killing 3 or 4 Survivors is considered a win towards MMR.
Important: the Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating only considers the death of Survivors (or their failure to escape) when calculating its final MMR score, and does not care how that death occurred.
Whether a Survivor died because of being sacrificed, being killed by the Killer's own hand, or being bled-out, or even how many times they were hooked, is of no concern to the MMR system, they will all count as kills.
There you have your "win condition". It is a ranked system in all ways possible and I still don't know why you all insist in negate the empirical evidence. In fact, the real problem here is that our rank is hidden from us while being a ranked game.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614512#Comment_3614512
Seriously, dare to explain how you deciding to "use random perks and play around" makes a game with a ranked system based on skill a party game?.Sure. The game has powerful perks and sweat addons that will make you stronger. This will lead to you escaping/killing more. This will result in you playing against 'harder' competition, most likely those who are using similar build types. There will be outliers, either people so good at the game that they are at the higher level, or so bad they are at a lower level. But the average player in the average game will be matched up with players using a similar playstyle.
But you can also look to what the Devs have said (first half is the most relevant):
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312088#Comment_3312088
Over enough plays, the math will average out your games to reflect your playstyle against people who match that playstyle.
And I think the term "party game" in gaming is pretty clear: A multiplayer game, usually with simple controls and low skill ceiling, to be played for the sake of it to have fun, normally with friends. Basically, the same concept as a table top game, but being a video game.I don't think that's what people mean at all. A party game has skill and competition, but emphasizes fun elements over balance. Not every map/killer has to be balanced, instead they should add variety and fun to the game. People don't want anything that is too broken, but the fact that the game has a ton of random elements is not a detraction, but something that makes it appealing.
You brought up tabletop games. Take Settlers of Catan, its a competitive game, has random elements, and can easily be played by a family every couple of months, but lots of people play it in more intense competitive tournament settings.
I don't like the term party game because any game can be a party game or a competitive game depending upon how you approach it.
Sure. [...]
Dude, you are describing exactly how a ranked system works to argue that the game is not ranked.
The same with the dev description. What he says there is every single game with a skill based ranked system in existence, so doesn't matter how many mental gymnastics do you want to add on top of it, you are only proving me right.
In fact, you can argue that precisely the main problem of the MMR system in DbD is that it doesn't take into account skill at all, as it only count win or loses. So, doesn't matter if you had looped the killer for 5 minutes, repaired 4 gens by yourself or if you had left every survivor at last hook during the match, if you end up losing is -20 MMR rating for you.
I don't think that's what people mean at all. [...]
Well, they are wrong. A party game, by definition, is what I described.
And true, every party game can be a played as a competitive game if you set additional rules on top of it, in fact Tetris is played competitively even today, also Monopoly. The key point here is what you said about Settles of Catan: "can easily be played by a family".
Again, a party game is a game with low skill ceiling and easy entry point designed to be played mainly with friends just for the fun of it. You can't put your non-gaming mother to play DbD online against strangers and expect her to do good or be able to compete at the game, even if you tell her exactly how to play. That's the difference.
@020_AMS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614516#Comment_3614516
There are no brackets. There are literally no ranks. There is the noob bracket and the everyone else bracket. Play normally and somewhat decent and you fall into the normal bracket. You cannot get higher up. Maybe actually understand MMR in this game first?
First, from the Wiki, which base it's articles in patch notes, devs talks and data mining the game:
Skill Brackets
Players of ranked Trials in Dead by Daylight are sorted into so-called "Skill Brackets", depending on their MMR:
- Players with 650 points are newcomers and put into the "Testing Skill Bracket".
- Players with 900 to 1,000 points are in the "Bottom Skill Bracket".
- Players with 1,600+ points are in the "Top Skill Bracket".
- This bracket is the widest, as it encompasses all Players with MMR scores up to the maximum of 3,000 points.
- Players with 2,000 to 2,200 points tend to be professional Dead by Daylight Players, such as streamers and content creators, due to how frequently they play.
- Players with 2,400 to 2,500 points are the most proficient Dead by Daylight Players.
Caps
- Players with 2,100 points reach the "Soft Cap" of the MMR system.
- Reaching this cap will significantly reduce gains towards their MMR.
- Players with 3,000 points reach the "Hard Cap" of the MMR system.
- Reaching this cap will suspend any further gains towards their MMR.
The Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating, often abbreviated as "SBMM" or "MMR", is a hidden scoring system used to match Players together for ranked Trials in Dead by Daylight. The system has been in use since 8 September 2021 and replaced the previous matchmaking system, which had matched Players based on their Grades. The Skill-Based Matchmaking Rating uses a hidden score that is influenced by the Player's performance in ranked Trials.There is no way for Players to know their specific score. The SkiSo, at minimum, we have 3 hard coded skill brackets right now with people above 2000 being considered the "top":
- 0 - 900
- 900 - 1600
- 1600 - 3000
Second, even if the game didn't had any "rank bracket" the point still maintains, as again, in any game with a SMM system the bracket only represent a certain part of your "rank number" (usually with some cool name like "Platinum", "Emperor", etc.). The difference comes in how the game uses that number to do matchmaking. In the case of DbD, when you have hit a rating of 1600 it would try to match you against people with the closest rating to yours, ergo, if you have 2500 rating it would try to find someone with also 2500 rating.
So, just as I said: "You win or lose games and if you keep winning you get to higher ranks, facing players of your same rank, until you reach max rank because if it was infinite it won't be a rank, it would be just a number", brackets or not.
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@020_AMS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614136#Comment_3614136
There is no contradiction. Hightening your MMR merely serves to move out of the new player pool. After crossing the soft cap there is no hightening your MMR anymore, you’re in the same pool as the majority of the players. After crossing the line escaping/killing people doesn’t serve a purpose anymore.
Yeah, that's how a rank system work. You win or lose games and if you keep winning you get to higher ranks, facing players of your same rank, until you reach max rank because if it was infinite it won't be a rank, it would be just a number.
Don't know how you got that MMR having a top makes that first, everybody reaches that top, second that it means that the game is not really ranked and so it is a party game.
In other words, you are so wrong.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614187#Comment_3614187
As survivor, you can play a team based game if you want. Even if you escape and the others don't, its a loss. You can even say if its a 1k its a win, even if you die.
You could also evaluate your performance on the overall point score or any other metric that you wish. BHVR supports that based on comments I've seen, though I've always found the games lack of clear win conditions very strange.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614136#Comment_3614136
Funny that you don't see the contradiction in saying "It is a party game" continued with "Escape/kills highten your MMR".There isn't. MMR is meant to match players of similar playstyle against each other, not just skill. If you min/max your role, expect to run into other people who do the same, if you bring kind of random perks and just play around you're supposed to get the same from others.
Also 'party game' is a term that lacks clarity. It means different things to different people.
... what? Where the hell have you take that from? The MMR system is literally a counter, it goes up or down depending on your win/loses. It has nothing to do with how you get that win or loses. Seriously, dare to explain how you deciding to "use random perks and play around" makes a game with a ranked system based on skill a party game?.
And I think the term "party game" in gaming is pretty clear: A multiplayer game, usually with simple controls and low skill ceiling, to be played for the sake of it to have fun, normally with friends. Basically, the same concept as a table top game, but being a video game.
A high skill competitive PvP game, by nature, is not a party game.The moment you need a minimum game sense and you are faced against strangers in matches according to your rank there is no possibility for playing it as a party game unless you play with friends in private lobbies. Simple as that.
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@020_AMS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613830#Comment_3613830
It is a party game, not a competitive game. There are no official win conditions. Just escape/kills that highten your MMR. And that MMR just has a soft cap, that’s it. Your “reward” would be prestiging, that’s it. Ofherwise you have picked the wrong game.
Funny that you don't see the contradiction in saying "It is a party game" continued with "Escape/kills highten your MMR".
This is a competitive PVP game with a ranked system, only that for some reason (a big part of the community that like you still want to believe it is a party game, if I had to bet) they hide our rank from us even if showing it would solve many things. In fact, it is so competitive that it doesn't even have an unranked "for fun" queue when other games made with E-Sports in mind have it.
I think is time for you people to realize that the only way to play this game as "a party game" is playing with other 4 people in a custom match, and for BHVR to show us our MMRs.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613045#Comment_3613045
I'm not sure what you think I am saying, because to my eyes, you seem to be in weirdly violent agreement with me.
Well, it seems that you are definitely not seeing the same reality the rest of us sees. What a surprise...
Again, have a nice day.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613028#Comment_3613028
You know full well that what you're doing is a bit more than just being unreasonable.
And I never claimed that Mecca was referring to anything other than you. Mecca was just saying that the whole killer main playerbase is like you, and they're not. Whatever you've got going on is not something I'm seeing from others on the forums.
- The question: "Are you going to argue now that being unreasonable is not the point of the conversation and that it is I who doesn't know what is being talked here?"
- Your answer: "I never claimed that Mecca was referring to anything other than you"
Your logic and whole way of argumentation in a nutshell. But I am the one with "something going on" and a "particular brand of weirdness".
I'm going to be left wondering in what moment I had accused you of claiming such thing as Mecca not referring to me or how you got to that conclusion, but whatever dude, not in the mood for any more strawmans or any other type of fallacies today. For the rest of your post: I'm not the one being unreasonable, that was a joke, and thanks man, you know how to make someone feel unique!
Have a nice day.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612987#Comment_3612987
Doesn't change that whatever you've got going on is definitely a 'you' thing, and not something shared by the community, does it?
Being unreasonable? Nah dude, I'm pretty sure that there is pretty unreasonable people everywhere, it is not a "me" thing.
Or are you going to argue now that being unreasonable is not the point of the conversation and that it is I who doesn't know what is being talked here? Because I can see you do it even if this started with someone saying "You can't reason with killer mains" referring to me, not going to lie...
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612930#Comment_3612930
I thikn the whole purpose of the chase music is to cover up survivor noises, being steps, grunts of pain or whatever, so that would be a lot more than quality of life... ^^
You are right, that would be being able to play the game without it taking away one of my senses artificially so I can locate my targets better, which would be super premium quality of life!...
Now seriously, I don't think it would make that much of a difference except cases when many sounds overlap each other (like reworked Red Forest on launch... my entity, I couldn't even hear my own thoughts in that map) where is virtually impossible to distinguish a burning barrel from a survivor running. You also have to take in count killers should many times lost line of sight with a survivor to mindgame thanks to that red light we unwantingly have attached to our heads, so it would be nice if you can rely on sound in those cases.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612907#Comment_3612907
Oh, no, this particular brand of weirdness is not a thing killer mains share. Just this one.
That's cute coming from the guy that only debate in fallacies when I had reached middle ground with the more hardcore followers of the survivor's rulebook this game could have spawned many times in this forum.
Like I said before, never change 🤣
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@ShinobuSK said:
Of course you cant change wiggle back, that would give players too much of a freedom of choice and we cant have that here
The question here is, why would you ever want to wear off the keys / buttons of your keyboard / controller with the button mashing wiggle ever again? More so taking in count that the wiggle now has a fixed duration and pressing them faster would not get you free any sooner.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612175#Comment_3612175
What quality of life options would you like to see?
- Auras of survivors rendered on top of anything else / different color so they don't get occluded by other things like gens.
- Hook counter on HUD so we don't have to memorize who we hooked and how many times.
- AFC bar when on range of a hook, so we don't have to wonder if we are granting a free unhook unintentionally (also for survivors, so they don't have to wonder if their teammates is getting face camped or they should go for a save).
- Visual status effects both on gens and survivors so we don't have to guess if that survivor that supposedly was exposed still is or survivors having to wonder if that gen lost so much progress because it was affected by CoB (seriously, you guys made a whole effect for someone carrying snowballs and not for buffs / debuffs?).
- Seeing if survivors are in SWF on lobby and how many (e.g. if two teams of two) to know what to expect in the game.
- Toggleable Aim Assist (or Aim Dressing, or however you want to call it) so we can decide if it benefit us or we just want to not be forced to miss hits.
- Crosshairs / 3D space prediction arcs / landing marks (a la Singularity) for ranged killers so we don't have to build muscle memory to know where our hatchets / knifes go.
- Smaller and less intrusive loud notifications, specially when gens get done and on unhook so we can see where survivors go next without them being hided by the icon.
- Offerings shared between killers (also for survivors) so we can use our puddings with whatever killer we want and not who RNGesus decide to give them to.
- Some way to interchange addons for others even if it requires enormous quantities, so we don't pile up hundreds or thousands of that addon we will never use (also for survivor's item addons).
- Louder survivor's steps, so they doesn't get silenced by chase music or ambient sounds (or vice versa, quieter chase music and ambient sounds) so we can use them to locate survivors just like the in game tip told us.
- Change some SFX so they don't sound exactly like survivors steps (from memory, fire barrels and Freddy's own steps) for the exact same reason.
- Allow us to disconnect at the EGC without penalty, so we are not forced to wait 2 minutes because survivors want to tbag in our faces.
- Other things that can be consider more balance than QoL, like less perks telling survivors exactly what and how (Dissolution not showing in their HUD the moment it gets activated, for example), a blind cooldown so we can't get double blinded or a rework of the Hex mechanic so they doesn't get cleaned 14 seconds after starting the match.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612713#Comment_3612713
That's a question for YOU to answer, since YOU took the conversation there, not me.
First post by @Tsulan that started this conversation branch:
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611459#Comment_3611459
Years ago, devs tested a anti camp mechanic. Where the hook progress timer stopped when the killer was to close. Survivors then completely stopped the progress by simply looping the killer around the hook. Devs scrapped the idea and now brought us this.
It only works as good or bad as our community allows it to. I sometimes see my teammates loop the killer around the hook. Which only helps the killer.
I guess the Meg Bot is also somewhere nearby the hook. Because bots are well bots.
My further post, answering both of you about the topic, which was about the old camping mechanic and why it was discarded:
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612015#Comment_3612015
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612018#Comment_3612018
It was an exploit, because survivors could literally force the killer to either grant the save or stick by the hook wasting time at infinitum, allowing the other 1 or 2 survivors not looping the killer to do gens while survivors literally lose nothing as the hooked survivor would never get sacrificed as long as the killer didn't allowed them to unhook him. That's why it was discarded.
In the new version that got to the game, something similar could be done in the PTB as you can see in the video and thank the Entity that BHVR did something right an changed it so it was not possible anymore.
It was always about the old anti camping mechanic. So, you either are aware of this but yet again you are lying in an attempt to claim I was derailing the conversation (which would be funny, as that's your thing) or for some reason you are not able to follow the flow of what is being talked in a conversation and respond accordingly. In any case, again, whatever you say dude.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612591#Comment_3612591
My guy, the same system has been suggested multiple times over the course of DBD's entire lifespan. Even leading up to 6.1 it was a common point of discussion and every time it was brought up, people argued against it as if infinites were still in the game.
But thanks for stating the facts about what I am referring to, to me. Not at all presumptuous or anything.
I would ask what anything of what you just said had to do with the old system being abused by survivors and that being the reason of why it wasn't implemented, but yet again, we know how you roll so whatever you say dude.
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I think it is fair in some degree, at least in some of the things they are receiving it for. Mainly:
- Saying it would take years to implement simple QoL changes that should be in the game since day 1 with obviously bogus excuses.
"We can't implement seeing other survivor's build in the lobby because we don't have flexibility in the HUD"? My brother in the Entity, you made the HUD! Open that widget editor in UE and change it. It is mind boggling that anybody effectively can watch a couple UE's HUD tutorials in Youtube and do the exact same thing in a couple of days, and they are claiming that we will have to wait years for it to happen. And believe me, it's not that hard or something that need that much planning, testing or developing time.
- The wording in some claims.
"Our posture is that lack of information is not the problem". Even if it is true (I mean, play a couple of SoloQ games, watch closely what your teammates are doing and you would realize that the real problem is a lack of game sense on average and doesn't matter how much info those people would had, they would still don't make the right call at the right time) saying that, in that way, after affirming that people would have to wait years for simple things to be implemented is not the right way to do it.
Even if nothing would change, there is no reason to not have things like builds preview in the lobby or even better, the AFC bar implemented in the HUD so survivors know when a teammate is being camped and the killer when he is granting a free escape unintentionally, or any HUD info for killers as they don't have any (we still have to memorize who we have hooked, for the entity's sake). Again, things like those should have being in the game since the beginning and there is no excuse to not have them 7 years from then (in fact, there is also no reason to not add voice chat or a ping system in the game, either or both, other than server costs).
Have all those things in the game and then yeah, you could be like "The lack of information is not the problem, is that on average you don't know how to play", but if the game is missing basic functionality and you claim that it would take you years from now to add it... dude, seriously?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612436#Comment_3612436
jesus crist
look at trapper standing like 5 feet from the hook, but the bar doesnt fill up because, well, he is on the staircase down below
WHAT A JOKE
What is happening with the trapper in that video:
As the range is distance based, obviously, not all maps have the same height between floors. If anything, this proves that effectively the system detect survivors and killers in floors bellow if the height between floors is small enough (RPD, Midwich, etc.).
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
Choy recently did a video on how the Anti-Camp Mechanic has made things WORSE not better. Give it a watch.
Seriously, if you are a survivor, watch this for how to make sure killers don't trick you and get an easy 4K.
Seriously, if you are a killer, watch this for how to trick survivors and get a easy 4K.
About that video:
- All survivor problems he mention would be solved by showing the bar in the HUD for the rest of survivor, something that people have being asking for since the PTB but BHVR have decided to just ignore, and even if not it would take years for them to add it, apparently.
- Nice he also mention at least some of the problems killers faces with this system, something that most people don't seems to see or care.
- Making it so the survivor dies slower like in the failed old mechanic, even with the rules it has now, would make impossible for the killer to defend the hook in any way. With this system, if you see that the survivor is about to enter second phase or be sacrificed, at least you can be inside the area for those last seconds to secure the kill.
- I don't see how anything said in that video could lead to an "easy 4K".
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612099#Comment_3612099
Maybe because there is no need of saving him as he can unhook himself? Just saying.
How's he gonna unhook himself if the killer doesn't cooperate though?
They doesn't have to last forever, just enough for the gens to be done or the killer giving up and granting the unhook. And they used builds and strategies for that to happen.
Which it's not going to when you have no space to move in.
Says you. Facts says that was the exact reason the old anti camping mechanic didn't got out of the PTB, survivors exploiting the mechanic to gain an advantage. But we know that you don't deal with the reality everybody else live on, so you do you.
We're not talking about the old anti-camp. I'm talking about the suggestion that got floated every month or so in the interim that always got that remark as well, when nothing of what you said applies. No infinites, and no self-unhook. Just feeding the killer extra kills.
We're not talking about the old anti-camp.
But we are, the same one that didn't made out of the PTB because survivors abused it to gain an advantage and don't letting the killer sacrifice anyone. This are facts, but here you are denying reality itself again.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612199#Comment_3612199
It was like that in the PTB, not anymore
Verticality
When this feature was tested on the PTB, it treated both horizontal and vertical distances equally. However, this had a side effect of detecting Killers on different floors as camping even if the shortest path to the hooked Survivor was rather long. This was especially noticeable on indoor maps such as The Game.
In a later update, the meter will be weighted more heavily toward horizontal distance than vertical. This will make the meter a little more forgiving if the Killer passes by on another floor.
As explained by Mandy in another post, if I recall correctly:
Before, the detection range was a circle, now it is an ellipse that even if it allows you to not be in the range as much in other floors, it still detects both killers and survivors in it.
It even says it there: "This would make the meter more forgiving", not make it not detect you on upper or bottom floors. So I don't know why you are insisting in claiming the contrary or accept that either you didn't let the bar fill up, or your teammate didn't even tried to make use of the free Deliverance.
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612199#Comment_3612199
This was changed from PTB to live. If the killer is below the hook on another floor, the meter will not fill up. It is supposed to fill up slowly if they’re below or above hook but it doesn’t appear to fill up at all. Could be a bug, but it’s a thing regardless.
Well, simple to discern as the range is exactly the same for both killers and survivors. So, if survivors stops the bar in other floors but the killer doesn't fill it up, it is a bug. If it doesn't work for both of them, they changed again the vertical range since the last time I played survivor (I took a break from the game since recently) because when they changed it, the bar still filled up when the killer was bellow or above me.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612161#Comment_3612161
And when the killer is on the bottom floor the timer stops
It doesn't stop. If that Deathslinger walk to the bottom floor and stand there enough time without another survivor in range, the bar would fill up and grant a free Deliverance without reason.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611956#Comment_3611956
most of the time inside the range = on the bottom floor
At 16 meters of the hook, yes, inside the range.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612037#Comment_3612037
The AFC never was meant to prevent the killer to defend the hook, it was to prevent Facecamping as it's name implies
Except facecamping was removed years ago with the introduction of swivel hooks, if we want to get finnicky about terminology.
The problem with facecamping, as was outlined in the dev showcase where it was introduced, is that a survivor is kept on the hook with minimal to no chance of being rescued. And now you're here saying that under the current system, survivors should give up on rescuing a hooked survivor.
Ergo, system is a failure.
That if the survivor doesn't have any endurance like DH (more so in the day), there is no pallets around the hook, there is only one survivor and not two doing it as they did in the day, and a long list of variables that makes your statement wrong.
Literally no chase lasts forever, bud. You were the one who said 'ad infinitum'.
Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that survivors abused the hell out of that mechanic to gain an advantage (ergo, exploit). That's why it didn't come out of the PTB and nowdays we have the fairer version of it instead.
Doesn't change that it's still getting called a survivor exploit in situations where it blatantly benefits the killer.
And now you're here saying that under the current system, survivors should give up on rescuing a hooked survivor.
Maybe because there is no need of saving him as he can unhook himself? Just saying.
Literally no chase lasts forever, bud. You were the one who said 'ad infinitum'.
They doesn't have to last forever, just enough for the gens to be done or the killer giving up and granting the unhook. And they used builds and strategies for that to happen.
Doesn't change that it's still getting called a survivor exploit in situations where it blatantly benefits the killer.
Says you. Facts says that was the exact reason the old anti camping mechanic didn't got out of the PTB, survivors exploiting the mechanic to gain an advantage. But we know that you don't deal with the reality everybody else live on, so you do you.
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Good for you.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612021#Comment_3612021
Except it doesn't, does it? Because the killer just moves a short distance away and AFC disables. Which brings us back to square one.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612024#Comment_3612024
It was an exploit, because survivors could literally force the killer to either grant the save or stick by the hook wasting time at infinitum
Or until bloodlust kicks in, at which point two survivors will be on the hook right next to each other, putting the survivors into a very dire spot.
Except it doesn't, does it? Because the killer just moves a short distance away and AFC disables. Which brings us back to square one.
Starting to move the goalpost already? I was wondering why the number of fallacies in your post was suspiciously low.
The AFC never was meant to prevent the killer to defend the hook, it was to prevent Facecamping as it's name implies, and as has already become clear it does it function as intended (when you let it do it). This is also the reason of why it deactivates in the end game.
Or until bloodlust kicks in, at which point two survivors will be on the hook right next to each other, putting the survivors into a very dire spot.
That if the survivor doesn't have any endurance like DH (more so in the day), there is no pallets around the hook, there is only one survivor and not two doing it as they did in the day, and a long list of variables that makes your statement wrong.
Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that survivors abused the hell out of that mechanic to gain an advantage (ergo, exploit). That's why it didn't come out of the PTB and nowdays we have the fairer version of it instead.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612010#Comment_3612010
I would be too, but that makes it all the more baffling that some people describe that as a survivor exploit.
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612015#Comment_3612015
No, no. Its not a survivor exploit. Sorry if i expressed myself wrong in that regard.
It was an exploit, because survivors could literally force the killer to either grant the save or stick by the hook wasting time at infinitum, allowing the other 1 or 2 survivors not looping the killer to do gens while survivors literally lose nothing as the hooked survivor would never get sacrificed as long as the killer didn't allowed them to unhook him. That's why it was discarded.
In the new version that got to the game, something similar could be done in the PTB as you can see in the video and thank the Entity that BHVR did something right an changed it so it was not possible anymore.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611996#Comment_3611996
So we go from 'killer is camping, don't go for unhooks and just slam gens' to 'killer is camping, don't go for unhooks and just slam gens'.
This is what I mean with 'the game has not functionally changed'.
No, we have obviously go from "killer is camping, don't go for unhooks and just slam gens" to "killer is camping, don't go for unhooks and just slam gens to let the AFC grant the hooked survivor a free Deliverance".
We both know that you like to cherry pick and twist the argument, but come on.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611962#Comment_3611962
If the game functionally doesn't change, yeah, it's a failure. If all the scenarios play out the exact same way they used to with one completely non-functional difference, yeah, it's a failure.
But the game functionally changed, now if a killer is facecamping someone, that someone can unhook himself without his teammates having to invest time in doing a trade or a save as long as there is no one else in a 16m radius.
Of course, if you are going to play like the system doesn't even exist and stay beside the hook without even trying to go for a save and preventing the system to trigger then yeah, nothing has changed. But that's not the mechanic's fault, it's yours.
So, next time you see a killer camping, get the hell out of there and invest your precious time in doing gens, instead of not letting the anti face camping mechanic work as intended.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611868#Comment_3611868
As a sidenote: if the 'solution' to this is 'just do gens', then the system has made zero functional difference and is thus a failure.
So the mechanic doing exactly what it was designed for, allowing the hooked survivor to unhook themselves in case the killer is face camping without his other teammates having to invest generator repair time in doing a save or trade is a failure?
You and your logic, dude. Never change.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611868#Comment_3611868
What I mean is that, if the killer is in a different floor, the bar doesn't fill up
but it another survivor is in a different floor and the killer is camping right next to the hook, the bar doesn't fill up too
And what I'm saying is that you are wrong, the bar fill up if the killer is in another floor with no other survivor in range and you can see it in the video I posted (2:15). That hasn't changed since the PTB, the change was that now downed survivors still slow down the bar and has a 7 second grace period before it start going up (so the killer can use a locker or kick a pallet / gen besides the hook before it start giving the free save).
For someone criticizing the mechanic that much, it seems that you don't know how it works that well.
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611882#Comment_3611882
there is a video
I spend at least half the time downstairs, and different floors pause the bar too, because this mechanic is amazing
BTW, that video clearly show that you spent most of the time inside the range, slowing or effectively stopping the build up of the bar and / or even if it filled up maybe the hooked survivor didn't even tried to unhook herself. Like I said, next time, the moment you see the killer camping get out of there and do something useful like progressing gens if you are not going to trade, and if they didn't unhook is because they simple didn't even tried to.
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Yes, it does. In fact, in the PTB having the survivor and the killer close to the hook would make the bar fill slower, but fill enough to allow survivors to basically loop the killer at the same time they get a free unhook for the other one. In fact, the moment you were down you won't count to the bar's slowdown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDoo509XVD4&t=70sThat's why they changed it and now at certain distance the bar stop filling with another survivor close, no matter if that other survivor is downed or not (in reality, it start to slow down when another survivor is inside the range, getting slower the closer that other survivor is of the hook, and even slower if there is more than one survivor in range).
In other words, next time you see the killer camping go to do gens to the other side of the map to let the bar fill instead of being around. If they doesn't unhook themselves, then it is simply that they didn't even try to (again, you don't unhook yourself automatically the moment the bar fills up).
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611457#Comment_3611457
Too close? He’s at least 50 meters away from the hook.
???
No, he is not. The only moments when he maybe is outside of the 16m range is when he is in the stairs. Also, we have to remember that you have to manually unhook once the bar is filled, so maybe she had the chance to unhook but didn't do it.
This is something that can be solved by allowing both the killer and other survivors to see the progress bar so nobody either fill it up or stop it unintentionally, but that would take years of working according to BHVR so I don't see that happening.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611472#Comment_3611472
being in a different floor should not pause the progress
And then survivors would abuse it to get free saves as the bar progress when the killer is also in another floor, something they added to prevent the killer to be able to camp from the floor above (e.g. basement). If it doesn't pause when another survivor is in another floor, it should not fill either if the killer is, but then people would complain that killers just wait on top of the stairs in basement to camp.
Also, you should thank all those survivor that abused this mechanic the moment it dropped in the PTB in each and every iteration BHVR have tried to implement over the years for it to be this
fair"trash". -
@BubMickey07 said:
If I'm looping the killer for three min straight the least you can do is gens or get me off the hook but nope sit there stare at me
That's why the killer got a 4k with two gens left ig
And then come to this forum to complain about how killers are OP and that the only reason for SoloQ survivors to not do as good as SWF is a lack of information, not that most survivors don't have any game sense at all.
The life of a solo survivor main in a nutshell.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609781#Comment_3609781
Please, read the full post before you comment.
No one here is asking for him to return exactly as he was. Old Freddy was my favorite killer and he always will be, but my love for him doesn't make me blind to his issues. That is why everyone who wants him back, and many people do, also demands QoL improvements.
That thing you mentioned would no longer by a thing, thanks to the Incapacitated status effect being added during the Dream Transition. He also gets mobility.
If he were to come back EXACTLY as he was, I would main him again, sure. But I understand this is not what the majority wants nor needs, so that is why the improvements are there.
Does that answer your question?
Not really, because the main problems with him was not being able to attack anybody unless putting them to sleep and the easy skill check fail counter and even in your rework it is still a thing.
Don't get me wrong, you do you and I'm not going to say what people should like or not, but I think that if what happened then proved something is that as cool and lore friendly that design was it is not viable, much less today were there is less casual players and more people would know how to counter him and gens going on so fast that adding a minimum of 84 seconds (7 seconds to sleep * 12 hooks, counting you only needed to put a survivor to sleep 1 time per hook) on top of a normal chase time would mean survivors would get the gens done before you could kill anybody.
Add to this all the other problems this design would bring (i.e. being unable to change targets without losing those first 7 seconds to sleep the first survivor, forcing you to commit to that single survivor until you down him) and as much as I like the concept I still don't see how bringing it back can benefit the killer in any way (without making it unfair or changing it drastically from what it was).
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I don't know why so many people wants the old Freddy back when AFAIK was the weakest and easiest counterable killer BHVR design team has ever come up with (and that includes the Singularity).
I mean, I get that Freddy on release was more unique and lore friendly, but I don't think a killer whose power is waiting 7 seconds to be able to attack survivors if they don't miss an skill check before you get to them would be any fun to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwqWxNKdOU -
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608884#Comment_3608884
I guess this is so hard to do. They can't nerf SWFs. So someone need to boost kill-rates which means why solo survivors are here. It's not surprise there is 15% escape difference between Solo-q & SWFs, at least this was last stat we got from them. And i doubt this changed so much.
Like how hard is it to add feature like that:
Very hard, as they literally say we would have to wait "years" for it. I mean, it is totally reasonable, after all they need to first have a meeting to decide to do it, then have another meeting to discuss what they decided in that first meeting, and then another one to see who is going to implement it. Then, that person would have to open the UE editor, go to the widget editor, copy-paste the name tag part, modify it so it shows the perks instead, also copy-paste the blueprint related to it and refactor it so it takes the perks that the survivor currently have equipped, add a condition so the killer can't see them, test it, and then add it to the current version branch so it gets launched with the next update.
I mean, what do you want? You don't believe that it is something that can be done in one week at much, right? Come on, let's be real here, it's not like you can watch a 1 hour tutorial in Youtube and do the exact same thing in your game in a couple of afternoons.
They obviously are doing their best to bring this highly requested and needed features as fast and best as they can, so sadly we will have to wait for survivors to get all the info they can get and still do worst than SWF because they are right in what they are saying and the real problem of SoloQ is not a lack of information, is what the average survivor player do with the information he has, which usually is exactly the contrary of what he should do (i.e. waste time opening a chest when two other survivors are hooked and the third one is being chased by the killer).
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The only reason that trap didn't trigger is because the survivor is "wall hugging", which in this game technically makes the collision box of survivors smaller as it get inside the wall (you can clearly see how half of the survivor's body is inside the wall in the second image) so they are able to pass beside the trap, even if in the same situation it would trigger without problems if they walked straight through the same gap.
I had the trap even more to the left in some cases and they still managed to pass through it thanks to this "phenomenon" that the devs seems to not even want to address.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607633#Comment_3607633
It would feel incredibly cheap for survivors if it had no warning in its current state.
For it to be balanced with no warning, it would need to be a lot harder to activate/much more situational than it is now.
You need to first, hurt the survivor, then wait 3 seconds so if the survivor already has a dropped pallet available and use it immediately it won't work, and then you have 20 seconds to force the survivor to drop the pallet and use it, and taking in count most survivors would simply get out of a loop the moment the pallet is dropped and go to the next, I can guarantee you that even without the warning this perk is one of the most conditioned killer perks there is.
The only killer I got to use it successfully at some degree is with Trickster after hurting the survivor with knives in a loop, as if the survivor doesn't notice you have it they expect for you to keep throwing knives so they would stick around the loop even with the pallet dropped. But the moment you get one of those survivors that greed pallets at infinitum or have noticed the debuff you won't be able to activate it a single time in the match.
But even without all this, again, a "trap" perk type should never warn the other side of their existence. Just for the sake of giving another example, Blast Mine should warn the killer that is active in the generator he is about to kick using your logic.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607485#Comment_3607485
But ds isn't a free escape and is a one time use perk with heavy restrictions and punishes unhealthy gameplay. Dissolution triggers nearly every chase and forces the survivor to play in a boring way. They're in no way comparable at all. A better example would be ftp+buckle up which is also an extremely broken set up and should nerfed asap.
You're missing the point, obviously. The point being that a "trap" perk should not warn the victim about it's existence. Simple as that.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606327#Comment_3606327
No, the perk shouldn't be a free down the first time its used. The entire perk should be outright scrapped
Then DS should not be a free escape, and should warn the killer when the survivor is going to grab have it active. Same with endurance, should not be a free health state and warn the killer that the survivor has endurance. Deliverance should also not be a free unhook, so the killer should be warned so it doesn't hook that survivor...
Can you see the flaw of your logic?
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@Steakdabait said:
Let's not buff an annoying anti gameplay crutch perk.
This perk showing as a debuff in survivor's HUD is like DS showing a debuff when the killer is standing on top of the survivor to go for a grab. It doesn't makes sense.
At minimum, it need that to be changed.
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@Toaster427 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/398686/upcoming-live-updates-roadmap
McLean once mentioned the reason why a FOV slider would not be fair in this game because the entire game was built on a limited visible line of sight for the killer, hiding and barely slipping by a killers view is exciting and provides a survivor an opportunity to get away. that's why that shadowborn was a perk, it gave you an advantage that the game was balanced on.
it's sad to see BHVR just completely giving up on the foundations this game was balanced on and giving killers whatever they ask for just because you can't handle them complaining about your game anymore.
how many basekit buffs do killers need? how high does the kill rate need to go before you stop?
at what point does this game stop being a PVP game and turns into just a killer simulator. I think BHVR might need to hire some people who actually play the survivor role, because from the looks of it, after McLean left the team everything went to the dumpster.
That's cute, taking in count they are going to implement a "3 genning solution" along with the FOV slider months after they added an "Anti-Facecamping System" just because survivor don't want to have to put some thought in what generators they do to not let the killer have 3 close up final gens. More so if we also take in count that most than probably 95% of killer related things in that list is going to be nerfs just for the sake of survivors crying about it.
The FOV slider should have being in the game since Day 1, and having perks that changed your FOV was only proof that it could be higher without disrupting that much the normal gameplay or being "completely unbalanced". In fact, AFAIK the FOV slider is going to be set only as high as Shadowborn allows now, so the only "balance" change here is that the ones that were forced to use it to not suffer motion sickness at last can use another perk after years of having to use a perk slot to get what should have being basic functionality.
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Well, this is what you get when people start cheating in your game and you don't ban them, that you make them believe that somehow "bug exploiting" is not cheating and they even have the right to do it as they know they are not going to get punished for it.
The question here is, are BHVR going to ban those players this time to make example so they learn the lesson? Because last time I reported 6 people, and not a single one of them got banned.
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Deja Vu, and break those gens at the start. If with only 2 gens to go you had left those 3 gens to the killer, it's on you.
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So, if I got this correctly, STBFL is a problem because all those killers that get less benefit from it are using it in mass, apparently...
Sounds about right. Nerf it.