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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692548#Comment_3692548
OK, but would it mean anything to hard tunnel one survivor 9 times? You are not getting someone out of the game easier with that? The game is over before you got that far because the other survivors are doing gens.
The priority with that solution would be to get fast downs and apply pressure and not focus one person only... Because you are not getting someone out fast with 9 hooks needed for that xD
If the killer applies that much pressure that you don't get a Gen done in 9 hooks then sorry dude but then this is on your team xD
OK, but would it mean anything to hard tunnel one survivor 9 times?
Against good survivors? No. Against those who don't know how to deal with tunneling and / or get downed 10 seconds after the chase starts? That one survivor would stay on the hook all game and maybe get saved when the 5 gens are done, if the killer doesn't manage to kill somebody else as now the team has run out of hooks and they die at their first hook.
If the killer applies that much pressure that you don't get a Gen done in 9 hooks then sorry dude but then this is on your team xD
I agree, but that's the thing. Have you played SoloQ lately? I don't know how many times I have been unhooked in front of the killer, or even worse, have seen how my teammates get downed over and over again in less than a minute because they are a "bully duo" and their only focus is to blind the killer and save their pal to the point of trying smart things like body block the killer off the hook while being injured. That's why I don't even think that it would benefit survivors that much either, because now your survival depends on your teammates doing good even more.
But hey, trying things like this is what PTBs are for, so I'm all in for them to at least test this.
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It is a bug that technically got fixed in the last patch:
Funny enough, I didn't have it but since the patch it shows in every game. But as people said, it is always Ash IV, not the actual grade of the player.
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@bjorksnas said:
Why does it seem like every other post here recently about toxicity, or whats wrong with dbd, or what the devs should buff / nerf / change next is posted by a new account as their first post.
Half the time they don't even come back to respond to the comments its like someone on some other platform god mad enough they came here to make it seem more of a widespread problem or someone keeps making alts for some reason.
Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me
Oh yeah, that has been happening since I started posting in the forums. Not only that, but there are times that coincidentally all those "No-profile-pic, Unconfirmed" new account posts are about the same topics. Coincidentally.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692250#Comment_3692250
The issue isn't specifically 3 genning, it's that 3 genning is boring.
That has an easy solution: Use Déjà Vu and be that silent hero that prevents their other teammates to make the mistake of leaving the killer the best last 3 gens the map generator can come up with. No more boring 3 gens and depending on the anti-3gen system to win.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692538#Comment_3692538
I've been playing games on Xbox since forever. I just hate the controls
Surprising, because I'm on PC and I use a PS4 controller to play survivor. I think is way better than K&M.
All said, I use a custom button configuration so I can do everything without removing the thumbs from the sticks.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3692507#Comment_3692507
I guess you could make the 12 hooks shared so survivors only die from hook 9 onwards... That would removed hard tunneling as the fastest way... And camping as well... Because that person would sit on hook for 9 min before dying, game would end twice... However I don't believe people would be willing to stay on hook that long...
That can solve camping, but it won't do anything to hard tunneling. In my opinion, it would only lead to the killer downing and hooking the same survivors up to 9 times in a row with the only way to stop it being the exact same as it is right now (in other words, applying the exact same solutions I already mentioned). In fact, it will make killers tunnel more than ever as now is even more important to get someone out the game as soon as possible, as if you don't there would be 4 survivors doing gens for practically the whole match. Unless BHVR make all those things survivor doesn't like (like spending so much time sitting in place doing gens) take so much longer, of course.
That, and people complaining about how they died in their first chase because their teammates were "insert gaming insult here" and got downed 9 times before the first gen was done. Sorry, but I don't see it.
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@Callahan9116 said:
If you move the right joystick you move with your view. You can't touch only the right joystick and look behind you without going another direction
That's how third-person game controls have worked since Super Mario 64 revolutionized how 3D games are played.
I can understand that if you are not a regular video game player / controller user, moving both sticks at the same time can be tricky at first (I had seen people literally moving one stick and then the other when they started playing CoD on console), but you only need practice.
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@Kazuma_Kuwabara said:
On June 24th, Saint John's Day is celebrated in Brazil (the festivities last a few weeks), it is a religiously based date (just like Christmas), but the focus of the celebrations is typical music, food and fun (just like like Christmas). It's an event with lots of colorful clothes (similar to Kate Denson as a scarecrow), people set up bonfires and there are lots of firecrackers and fireworks. Adriana Imai's hometown has a lot of tradition in São João.
Why not. More events = more goodies. By the way, "San Juan" is also celebrated in many parts of Spain, but we set the huge bonefires up the 23 at night, what we call "La noche de San Juan" (Saint John's night).
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The realistic answer to that is: Never. No matter what they implement in the game, removing a survivor from the match ASAP will always be the most efficient strategy for a killer to follow, just as doing all gens as fast as you can is for survivors, unless the design of the game is changed completely.
They maybe could alleviate "hard tunneling" with another one-sided "anti" game mechanic, but I have not seen any suggestion for it that didn't imply removing the possibility of defending the hook or punishing survivors for their mistakes from the killer. Basically, all of them can be summarized as "guarantee saves".
But there are ways to prevent or solve tunneling situations in-game. Like waiting for the killer to be distracted to do the unhook, not unhooking 2 meters away from the killer, body blocking to force him to chase you instead of the recent unhooked survivor, etc. Right now, the basekit BT by itself already makes hard tunneling not worth it in most situations (I repeat, in most situations) unless the survivors make it easier for the killer (like using your free Endurance to tank a hit for another survivor or not using your free Haste to get to the safety of a loop). There are also perks you can use if you are getting tunneled that often, including the buffed Decisive Strike in the next patch.
To conclude, I know that getting tunneled can be frustrating, but that's the game.
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@dwight444 said:
I mean…you're saying you couldn't injure 1 survivor before gens 'flew'? Not sure what flew means here, 1, 2 or 3 gens?
even if all 4 run lithe and pre-run (big if here, also a big if that all players play optimally), sure it's going to take you longer to catch up but eventually you'll catch up and it's unlikely most average players will walk during chase to get their exhaustion perk back so it's just a regular chase at this point. If you decided to abandon a chase before it started each time then that's just you not playing optimally and hoping you catch someone while they're exhausted before you commit; at some point you have to commit to someone, which, it's probably best at the start of match you just commit to the guy who you know is now exhausted.
lithe isn't going to make you good at pathing, looping, etc so it sounds like there was a bit of being outplayed by the survivors here and outplaying yourself.
Well, you said it yourself. When you don't have any chase power and someone good at pathing, looping, etc., just go flying through a window and it would take at least 10 seconds just to catch up with them, not counting the time invested to that point and that by then they will be in yet another loop, it is a problem. Multiply that by 4 and it is a really big problem, as catching anybody would mean wasting a huge amount of time. And yes, gens would get done fast unless you drop chase and try to pressure gens, which would only mean starting the process all over again with another survivor.
There is a reason it is the 3º most used perk by survivors right now, and it's not surprising that the 4 most used perks are literally one of the best chase builds you can have.
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As a Nemesis main (even if I play him less and less these days… a little buff, BHVR?) and survivor player I could say that yes, that strat is the number 1 enemy of killers without chase power nowadays. I don't know how many times I forced or was forced to drop chase thanks to Lithe. I can even argue that it needs some balancing.
Until then, Mindbreaker is your friend as killer. It won't guarantee that they can't use it all the time, but it will help when you find a survivor in a gen even if they start pre-running.
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@SirXenomorph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690868#Comment_3690868
Why should I do that? I am no hardcore player like the majority of the game is not. And that is ALWAYS the problem when it comes to that discussion. You guys only view from the high MMR viewpoint you do not even care about the majority of the players who are not in that MMR stuff. And yet your complains are the ones who are more important? Why? Cause you are high MMR and are superior?
It is always that. You think only bout how it is for you in that very specific situation where are not so much more players. Cause say what you want, the majority just is not in that MMR where you are and do not really care bout that they just want to have fun, but because you high MMR guys just only every care about how it is when you are high MMR it is no wonder you do not care how it is for the others. So the big deal here would be to change this MMR stuff to a own rubric in the game. Something which can be chosen at will, means there will be a matchmaking for the casual players and one for you hardcore gamers with your very special high MMR and in this high MMR stuff you can have all the buffs you want as a killer go for it I do not care. But why do the majority of players or the new players have always to deal with these stuff only because you MAYBE can meet a high MMR survivr or a whole team, why do the rest of the players who just want to enjoy the game always have to say what they have an issue with and been downtalked by guys like you only because your game is SOOOO hard for you? Why?
I do not need to hardcore gaming the game for that when the better option would be that all you hardcore high MMR addicted killers try to relax a bit. It is just not normal that all have to go like you wish only you have sometimes so extrem hard survivors. Oh and let me guess you play always like that. I also would assume, maybe I am wrong, but for sure you do tunneling, slugging and maybe even camp right? Be honest. Cause high MMR made you to do that right? Ridiculous if I am right
Why should I do that?
To have an informed opinion of both sides of the game and not make unfounded claims, for example. And if that is not enough reason for you, so you can get more BP when the bonus is in the other side.
Nobody said that you should "hardcore" it, and nobody downtalked you. I just explained why your claims are objectively wrong.
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@weareweebs said:
If you are going nerf adrenaline, then nerf Lightborn because by your logic that perk needs a nerf too. How is it fair that it can completely remove the effect of flashlights, and it prevents players from doing tome challenges too. Lightborn should have charges, it's a game-breaking perk. Player items already barely last long and flashlights are way too situational so that perk should be nerfed or removed from the game. In almost every match the killer is using Lightborn, really unfair I am wasting items I cannot use that are already rare to get and cannot do tome challenges because of this.
@SirXenomorph said:
Sry but lightborn is just a senseless perk. I mean you all killers complain now, that he said he want it to be changed when adrenaline will be changed too. And you all come out and say yea but this perk is not used as much as adrenaline is, yet it negates 100% the effect of flashlights, something what a killer can easily overcome by just look down or up or turn away.
Lightborn is a bad perk and it is way more used than you guys say. I saw it in the past days very often, especially in the matches where one or two survivors take a flashlight with. Most of the times killers just change it out JUST BECAUSE they see that there will be flashlights. Also since the effect that you can not be flashed by it already start at level 1 of that perk makes it sure a good pick for a perk that need to be changed. You can take it with you on level one and do not even need to get it to level 3 because it works still in the same way.
What should be changed, now that you can not get unhurt from a hook after the last gen is made, that camping in the end game also will fill the campermeter. I mean all of you killer crawl out to complain how hard the game is yet it is EXTREMLY easy as a killer to win. IT JUST IS, do not try to say otherwise because it is nonsense. Killers have a wallhack to nearly everything. They move much faster than any survivor without ever become slower after a few seconds. Wiggleing also is useless since the killer is not stunned long enough to lose the survivor after that. All in all the game is much more give advantage to killers than it does to survivors.
And again any critic which is made will be downtalked by the killer mains, who already got the very soft treatment so they can have no trouble AND YET they still use toxic "game mechanics" like tunneling, camping and slugging.
Go on with that stuff and you will be experience much more survivors who just kill themselves on hook or dc. Because it is no fun to play against killers who compansate the lack of skill with using toxic playstyles and still are not satisfied.
I met killers who play very good and with much skill and that is always nice and can go either him or we as survivors. But in these cases where it is a killer which just has no skill it is ALWAYS a toxic match then. It is no fun and I do not get what a killer can enjoy in smash down the survivors play like he is the only person who cares in that game and then will not be outcalled or critisized for that behaviour?
You killermains who KNOW that you are meant, should try to learn to be not hella selfish and egoistic and that this community is not here to obey to your own desires in that game. It would be just good if you just start to rethink your behaviour! Instead of wanting the Devs to make the game so easy for you that you start in a round with all 4 survivors already on the hook. THIS WORLD IS NOT ONLY ABOUT YOU. And it would help that you understand, that every buff the killers get and every nerf the survivors get are highly inequal to each other. Not to forget that the survivors do NOT get really good buffs at all.
Sorry to say, but if you really see Lightborn that often, that means that you are at low MMR (have you just started playing the game? Serious question).
Lightborn is a beginner perk, useful when you don't know how to deal with flashlights and "funny" squads (as it seems mods don't like the word used by the community), but the moment you learn that there are things you can do to prevent getting blinded, there are better uses for that perk slot. Doesn't need any nerf.
I mean all of you killer crawl out to complain how hard the game is yet it is EXTREMLY easy as a killer to win. IT JUST IS, do not try to say otherwise because it is nonsense.
Grab a killer, play it exclusively for a couple of weeks, and get to a higher MMR. When you start getting matchmaked against survivors that coordinate like a SWAT team and 2-3 gens pop up before you can do your first hook, you will see.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
Okay seriously, how are you meant to counter it? You can’t face away, or even face a wall because the speed boost and blast angle still allows for saves
You can’t realistically equip lightborn every game just in case they bring 1 perk
Flashbang by itself is fine, it allows for skilful saves if you’re close enough and have the right timing, or a free blind at pallets every now and then. The problem is Background Player, it makes the perk incredibly frustrating, especially in the hands of a coordinated SWF
Background player needs nerfing
Okay seriously, how are you meant to counter it?
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No basekit BT? No anti-facecamping? No anti-3genning? Hook grabs? Regression perks at it finest? Sign me in!
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In any case, what they have to add is an "Unranked" / Quick Game queue. The game is already "Ranked" in every sense, except it doesn't show your rank.
A Quick Game / Casual mode, more MMR brackets, proper rank names for them and showing your rank / MMR would be nice.
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It is a cool idea on paper, but the problem is that it would be a design and balance nightmare.
Imagine one perk that by itself is not that strong, so they assign it "10 points". Now, people discover a build where that perk with 5 another weak perks makes a super strong combo. How do they fix it? They make that weak perk cost more points, making it not worth using it by itself? They nerf one of the other perks, making them also not worth their cost and probably breaking other fair builds? They reduce the total points you can use to make a build so you can't have 6 weak perks, affecting every other build?…
But I agree, there are multiple perks in both sides that need some love to make them more useful.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690508#Comment_3690508
Even if that was the case, this would be an easy fix because there already is an rng value to the spawn logic of the basement, that could be used for it (basement offerings).
I didn't thought about that. That could be a good solution.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690492#Comment_3690492
Yes, a map rework is probably the best option.
But this will take a lot longer than removing a basement spawn. So it would be nice, if the devs did a band aid fix in the meantime.
Knowing BHVR, I bet is not even possible. They probably have the basement spawn logic hardcoded to the shack and they can't deactivate it in one map without deactivating it in all.
But sure, it would be nice.
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@Xernoton said:
A guaranteed hook down there wouln't make the issue go away though because hooks can be broken and then you'd have the same situation again if multiple survivors were in on it.
So they either need to make it easier to reach the hooks on the outside or remove the possibility for the basement to spawn in shack.
I think the best solution is rework the map entirely. It is by far the less balanced map of the whole game, in my opinion.
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@NotDuality said:
i struggle with it.
It depends vastly in what killer you are using and your playstyle, but in general terms by having a build with a couple of slowdowns / regression perks that fit your killer, not committing to chases for a long time (if after a couple of pallets you don't think you can down the survivor or they get distance with a perk like Lithe, drop and go defend gens) and remembering what gens are the closest to be completed so you can come back to them first you should be able to have more pressure over the survivors. Some aura and info perks also helps to identify in what gen you should apply more pressure.
I don't know how much experience and knowledge of the game you have, so I will try to make a 'general' perk guide for everybody based on my personal opinion:
Regression perks:
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance (The Artist)
It's good in almost everybody and the best regression perk in my opinion, but it depends on RNG and if you play with a slow killer sometimes you won't get to the hook on time before survivors complete a gen… if RNGesus didn't screw you up by spawning all Scourge Hooks on the other side of the map, of course. You can always pair it with Agitation (The Trapper) to alleviate this problem. - Pop goes the Weasel (The Clown)
Is good in killers with high mobility. If you keep in mind what gens are being done you can hook somebody, and just after go to that gen to regress it before it is completed. - Surge (The Demogorgon)
This one is specially good for M1 killers, as you will activate it everytime you down someone and have the advantage of also working on blocked gens. The problem with this perk is that it is strong at the beginning, but as gens get done it loses effectiveness unless you are able to catch and down survivors beside gens. For this reason, I don't recommend using it as your sole regression perk on most killers.
Slowdown perks:
- Deadlock (The Cenobite)
I don't recommend using it along PR as if Deadlock blocks the gen, PR can't regress it (I think it would regress the 2º most progressed gen, but I'm not sure). It's a 50/50 with Pop, as it will prevent you from kicking the gen right away, but would basically tell you what gen you will damage the most. - Dead Man Switch (The Deathslinger)
This one has good synergy with PR and Grim Embrace, but is easily countered the moment survivors notice you have it. Best for high mobility killers IMO, as even by itself you would be able to get to a gen fast enough to make the survivors let go. - Grim Embrace (The Artist)
The new kid in town after the buff. It pairs well with both PR and Pop and would give you enough time to get to that gen that was about to get done in time. - Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain (The Cenobite)
Currently bugged (The Cenobite bugged some way or another? No way!) but good if you are using PR (or another SH perk) as it will apply Mangle and make survivors do gens slower after they heal, making them have to spend more time recovering the regressed charges. - Hex: Plaything (The Cenobite)
The forgotten one, but it can be a pretty good slowdown if paired with Pentimento (The Artist), specially in killers that already have a side objective (like The Cenobite himself). - Corrupt Intervention (The Plague)
Pretty good for slow killers or those that need some kind of set up / power up at the start of the game (The Shape, The Trapper, The Nemesis…). - No Way Out (The Trickster)
Technically not a slowdown perk, but hey, if you can't catch them before they finish all the gens, do it after! By itself it can grant you enough time to get those last hooks you needed for the 3K, and there are some good endgame builds out there that fit many killers with little change.
Info perks:
- Discordance (The Legion)
Just two survivors in one gen, without counting any perk or item, would shave off 37 seconds from a gen. By focusing on the gens that are being done by multiple survivors, you will reduce the pressure survivors apply to you. It is also a good perk on Nemesis as the Noise Notification would alert zombies. - Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage (The Onryo)
As with any other SH, it pairs well with PR and it would help you keep pressuring survivors if you don't find anybody before an unhook and you are too far away to come back to it. Again, focus on any gen that has two or more survivors if possible. - Nowhere to Hide (The Knight)
Of course, it pairs well with Pop and will help you get those survivors that hide beside the gen when they hear the terror radius and wait for you to leave to keep doing it, reducing your pressure and allowing you to keep pressuring them at the same time.
With this said: Experiment. Not everybody play the same way, so you should find a build that adapts to you and the killer you are playing. There are tons of build videos in Youtube for any killer that you can use as base.
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance (The Artist)
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@Doxie said:
I am still newish, and part because I'm seeing more of it.... especially in solo... But here I am, playing a good game with teammates that are not so good. I avoid the killer, escape, do gens, wait for the good time to unhook…basically play the way I should. No hooks and then I realize I'm going to have to run interference while teammates are are two hooks in. One hit, down , moir. I mean playing a great game and then dead. Isn't this kinda opposite what they are going for. I get punished if I don't unhook, heal people. Gens and escape...I fail to get emblems, but if I play…instant dead. Then I get a stupid killer that tells me I need to get better. One hit and I'm garbage? Besides spending every game looking for every totem, which is a waste, what's the counter? Lockers and hide entire game? It's just unfun.
If you got moried in your first down, you missed the warning that tells you that Devour Hope is in play, two tokens before the killer can start mori people. The only surprise here is that it wasn't cleaned 14 seconds after starting the match.
Next time, the moment you see the warning tell your friends to look up for the totem and clean it.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689918#Comment_3689918
I did after I took the screenshot of offerings but I didn't think people would assume she was mistreated just cause I was annoyed she went afk.
Maybe because you only showed part of the screenshot, hiding your builds, items and chat.
So, if I have to bet, from my own experience, I would say that you are a full SWF that was doing all gens while the killer only got to make one hook. Not saying it is the case, but I don't know when you are not giving the full context of the situation.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689034#Comment_3689034
No wonder your takes are so god-awful. You’re clueless.
To activate Deadhard requires: Getting a successful unhook, getting hooked yourself, not being exhausted, not being in Deep Wound, timing the perk, the killer having better ping than you, and you having good ping as well. Those are the actual activation requirements. Not just getting hooked.
I couldn’t care less about the rest of your comment. It’s irrelevant.
Old DH:
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
· Press the Active Ability button while running to trigger the Endurance Status Effect for 0.5 seconds.
New DH:
Dead Hard activates after being unhooked or unhooking yourself:
· When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
· Press the Active Ability button while running to trigger the Endurance Status Effect for 0.5 seconds.
That's it. That's the only "activation requirement" that is different between the version that supposedly "didn't suck" and this one. Everything else you said can be applied to the older version, too.
So, I guess the takeaway here is that you think that the old version of DH sucks because you need to "not being exhausted, not being in Deep Wound, timing the perk, the killer having better ping than you, and you having good ping as well" to use it, right?…
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The bots literally have wallhacks. It's impossible to mindgame them in a loop as they know where you exactly are at all times, even through walls. Not only that, but the moment you get close to a gen they start running even before the TR is in place. Among other things.
The only reason I think nobody was saying bots are OP is because sometimes they seem to lose their pathfinding and get stuck in a corner in some maps and things like that. But when I play killer I refuse to follow a bot to a loop, and when I play SoloQ I thank the Entity that I would get a good teammate for once.
So yeah, any nerf to bots is welcome. At least make their bot superpowers random so not every one of them comes with cheats by default.
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@goodfriday said:
First of all I dont heal under hooks because am not slow and I hate when people wanna do that(Solo que) , Second of all its a solo que problem and Third of all am tired of saying this for about the 50th time I do not care about tunneling because I know how to loop and I swf and my swf can loop. I am so sick of tired and saying its not ME its bothers, it bothers me when its a baby person being tunneled that cant loop. Also even if said solo que moves from the hook the killer will follow their blood trail and down em again knowing their a new player.
Tunneling in solo que is what am talking about which is barely why I ever play solo que, I do not care if am being tunnel in solo que am talking about the baby survivor team mate who just brought dbd 10mins and is being tunneled out by the killer. Goodness gracious I swear some of you really can be ignorant and just either not reading or just have nothing to do but to annoy someone. Did you clearly not see me saying this to another person above already?
Appealing to emotion, much? You said it yourself: They got tunneled because they're new and don't know how to loop, and the solution is getting good and learning to loop so they don't care about getting tunneled because they know how to loop just as you do.
Problem solved.
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That mechanic is there precisely so you take a little time thinking on when to unhook your teammate instead of just unhooking him with the killer at 2 meters looking at you.
If you are getting that much unsafe unhook penalties, you are doing something wrong.
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@goodfriday said:
Remove hook notifications would be another good fix , sick of these teleporting killers or high mobility killers coming back to EVERY unhook they hear, am talking literally doing it willingly because even if you wait till they come across the map they still come back to it to tunnel.
If any of the killers is able to come from the other side of any map and still get you, your problem is clear and the solution simple: Stop healing under the hook unless the killer is in chase.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688900#Comment_3688900
I know where you can't. Dbd. Your turn.
I wonder how it feels to defend making the game miserable for other players as a 'normal thing'. I just dont get it.
I don't need my turn, I have already stated pretty clearly that where you can't have a guaranteed experience everytime you play is in any competitive game, including DbD. Sometimes it would be good, others would be bad. Don't like it? Play a single player game, those guarantee the same experience everytime you play them.
And the problem here is that what makes "other players miserable" is just people playing to win in a PvP multiplayer game. What is not normal is complaining about it, and this community is the only one with enough entitled people to validate those claims.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688900#Comment_3688900
Except DBD is rather different.
It's not mechanically like other games, the tutorial doesn't really teach you much and if you lose, you aren't allowed to contribute at all anymore. No respawns, no ghost mode, nothing. You're dead, you have a bad experience and you get no BP.
The game is extremely hard to pick up and is very unforgiving.
True… dare to explain how any of that contradicts anything I said?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688699#Comment_3688699
This is such a delightful discussion lol. Ty!
Fortnite is pretty straight forward. Its a shooter. You expect to shoot and get shot.
That's not entirely true. Yes, it is a shooter, but not all shooters are equal. A COD player would not be able to start playing Fortnite and be good at it right away. Yes, they would have a base, as every shooter it's the same deep down, but there would be a lot of other aspects that aren't. Specially Fortnite, as even if now it has a "No Building" mode, dominating the unique building aspect of it was kind of important in getting good at the game. I stopped playing for a long time precisely because I didn't like the building.
But also, it is a Battle Royale, which also has its own implications like inventory management, knowing weapon spawn points, or where to land at the start depending on the way you want to play the match.
Maybe comparing games is the wrong way. There isn't a game similar enough to Dbd to compare realistically imo. So I'll leave this point alone. Not enough here for me to get anything going. But I understand your point, just disagree.
You think Dbd is the exact same? Any new player can come in and just learn it like one does with fortnite?
I think that no new player could just come in to any game and just learn it. Like I said, if you play shooters often, you would have some aspects of Fortnite already dominated but you would still have to learn the specifics of it.
But if you prefer, I can compare DbD to a genre that has more in common with: Fighting games. Playing a fighting game is not just about learning to play with your character, you also have to learn how the other characters work, how to defend from their attacks and when you are able to attack them safely. It is not something that you are going to dominate in a couple of days and you would need to keep playing, learning and getting better over time.
You either like doing that, or after a week of losing non-stop because you don't understand how the game works you would quit. There is nothing wrong with it, but again, that's your fault, not the game.
This is where we mostly diverge I think. If a player plays a game for a week, and decides they dont like it, that doesn't mean they were bad at it. Maybe they destroyed everything that came before them and they were bored.
But we are speaking about Dbd specifically. There is no other game to compare. So I've decided I'll stay within the bounds of dbd when talking about this. You do not have to follow suit :)
If a player starts dbd as survivor, they are MUCH much less likely to stay with Dbd than if they started with Killer. Hot take perhaps, but I've seen it a few times. Friends who are pvp aggressors usually start with killer and do pretty good after a few games.
Lately the survivor starting group usually decides the game isn't fun after… oh… lets see, we played 3 games, tunneled twice. After a few more, I was asked "How do you fight this type of killer playstyle?" I said "The person who is getting targeted remains on hook as long as they can while the rest bust out gens. You'll be a martyr, but the team will win."
They just sort of looked at me strange. That is not something someone needs to hear about a game 'being fun.' Its not fun. Its pretty miserable time and time again. So no, it's not that gamers in this scenario are lazy or need to 'get gud.' The game sucks for new people. I dont say this as my opinion only. I base it on experience with trying to get new players in and the reactions thereof.
I know my friends and who likes what. Some of them are pretty hard into pvp, others aren't. I'm definitely not the best of the bunch lol. But we know bad games and what we'll put up with. Dbd is good at keeping the Entities claws hooked in ya despite the game's chasms of shortcomings. I dont fault players for not wanting to keep falling.
Where we disagree is when a player plays a new game for a few days and decides its not fun.
Well, you said it yourself. They decided the game was not fun for them and stopped playing even before having the chance to get good at it. Like I said, you either like learning and getting better at the game, or you don't. They didn't.
Thats a lot to assume. You've a very black or white view and I've learned its usually never the case. We'll just disagree here lol.
Forenite would show player pregression better than Dbd imo.
In what sense? Just curious.
I tried Fortnite a few times with friends, but shooters other than BLands is usually not very interesting to me. Just a personal thing. That aside, I played well, I get snipes, shootouts, etc. But I just wasn't feeling it like, say dbd. Just isn't my kind of game.
Since I've played both, this is my take: Fortnite is mostly a point and click, learn one map, and in general a great moba style free for all. Its done pretty damn well.
Dbdb is a 1v4, many many maps to learn, and character perks, powers, and addons. This should be plenty enough to distinguish the differences.
If I improve on fortnite, I see my shooting, live/die ratios, and the 'in the moment juking' I suppose lol. These are the areas I felt I'd see improvement in as I played.
In dbd, I see improvement if I begin remembering and identifying perks, remembering map layouts, learning builds, learning killers styles and finally learning about whats a win and a loss, since dbd seems to be a little strange with its win-cons.
Just feels like dbd is a more in depth game when it comes to 'learning it'. There's more to learn. But maybe I just haven't played Fortnite enough lol.
I don't feel this is anything but totally natural and understandable. Not players being lazy or.. whatever this would be called. Not even sure lol.
Well, I can agree with you that competitive games are not for everybody, like I said. It's not that anyone is lazy, it's just that some people don't consider investing time in having to learn and get good at a game "entertaining".
Your friends are an example of this. They didn't like it when you got online and had to play the game against people that play to win, but they play it in customs games for fun. So, I assume that what they didn't like was not the game but the competitive aspect of it and having to "grind" to win. And that's totally fine, but again, blaming the game because it is competitive in nature and people are going to play to win is not it.
My friends are an example of this. They did not like how games played out. They were tunneled and, basically, didn't get a chance to 'get gud.' I feel this is something that splits players as killers and survivor mains also. You and other killers say they wont put in the time to get gud. We say the time isn't worth putting in because of the killer meta. "Get gud." Is just echoed after that. And its just something to say at this point without any real substance.
I find it curious that this is literally the state of the game in NA lol. Its totally different depending on the region. But NA is now slathered with killers who will be able to tunnel, and will cry about various perks and survivor stuff because they are in a class of MMR that they shouldn't be. While I find this poetic justice, its still not healthy for the game. imo.
Thanks for the talk! Not sure we'll gleam much more from this. :)
Maybe comparing games is the wrong way. There isn't a game similar enough to Dbd to compare realistically imo.
In that part I was addressing explicitly what you said about Fortnite.
Talking in DbD terms, even if you can't directly compare it with another game mechanically speaking , you can with the process of what you need to get good at the game. In fact, I already did: Fighting games. Like I said, in a fighting game you need to not just know your character, but the rest of the roster to know how to counter them and use your attacks effectively against them.
In DbD, even if you don't need to go as deep as in a fighting game (you don't need to now that Nemesis's whip charging animation takes 0.35 seconds and it has a hit window of 0.333 seconds to know how to dodge it, when in a fighting game knowing frame data is crucial) you still have to learn how the 35 killers + survivors + most used perks work and how to counter them to be able to play against them efficiently.
And again, that isn't something that you are going to learn in a couple of days, not in a week or two. And that without taking into account other things also common in other genres, like learning map layouts or developing a good game sense to know what to do and when to do it.
If a player plays a game for a week, and decides they dont like it, that doesn't mean they were bad at it.
True, but we were talking about why new players would just say "this game is trash" for having a "bad experience" with the game, killed the first one in a match in this case, after playing a couple of days. Any other reason a person can have to stop playing a game after a while is irrelevant for this conversation.
Like I said, I stopped playing Fortnite after playing it for months because I didn't like the building that much.
That is not something someone needs to hear about a game 'being fun.' Its not fun.
Of course it isn't, as it is not fun to get killed in Fortnite before you can even get a gun. It's not fun getting your ass kicked in a fighting game because you don't know which one of his attacks would grant you a +15 frame advantage on block that would allow you to punish with your 14 frame combo starter, and he knows everything about your character. It's not fun to get killed over and over again by the same camper in CoD because none of your teammates have thought of throwing grenades at him. It's not fun to spend hours making your perfect deck in MtG Arena and be destroyed by someone with a discard meta deck.
It's not fun, but it is part of any competitive game. Specially when you just started learning it.
Also, there is plenty of things you can do in a tunneling situation, specially in a SWF with voicecomms. Instead of saying "be our gen JC and just die for our sins", maybe you could have taught them how to coordinate a save and to body block the killer to force him to chase somebody else. You could have slotted Reassurance or a flashlight to save them when going down, I don't know.
So no, it's not that gamers in this scenario are lazy or need to 'get gud.'
Again, nobody said that anyone is lazy, but they definitely need to "git gud" before saying something like "this game is trash" and stop playing because they got tunneled in 2 games and "a few more".
The game sucks for new people. […] I base it on experience with trying to get new players in and the reactions thereof
Sorry to say, but no wonder if every time they face a hard situation with simple in game solutions, your advice for them is "just die".
Thats a lot to assume.
I don't think it is a "lot to assume", taking in count there are few competitive games where you would get any good in just a few days playing them. And like I said, we are talking about one specific reason for not liking a competitive multiplayer game after just playing for a while, not the whole spectrum of reasons of why someone may not like a game.
Since I've played both, this is my take: Fortnite is mostly a point and click, learn one map, and in general a great moba style free for all
Excuse me, what?…
Are you thinking of League of Legends? Because it confuses me a lot that you mentioned multiple times that Fortnite is a "shooter" and that you played it, and now you are not just oversimplifying its gameplay to simply "point and click" but calling it a "MOBA"…
Just feels like dbd is a more in depth game when it comes to 'learning it'. There's more to learn. But maybe I just haven't played Fortnite enough lol.
True, but… what does that have to do with one or the other "showing their progression better"?
My friends are an example of this. They did not like how games played out. They were tunneled and, basically, didn't get a chance to 'get gud.'
Unless they got banned the moment a killer tunneled them, they had the chance to "git gud". They still have. They only need to start playing again, and start learning how it works. From a source that really teaches them how to deal with things in game apart from dying, preferably.
You and other killers say they wont put in the time to get gud. We say the time isn't worth putting in because of the killer meta.
Well, I started playing this game pre DH nerf, with every game having at least 3 of them. I could have said the same as you are saying right now, "is not worth putting time in getting good as survivors meta is busted". Instead, I kept playing and learned how to deal with that meta.
Whatever the reason, you are admitting that at the end of the day, they didn't put in the time to get good.
But NA is now slathered with killers who will be able to tunnel
Like I said in the other post above, if they are able to tunnel so efficiently, taking into account all the mechanics they added to the game, it has more to do with survivors allowing it than not. There are plenty of ways to avoid making it easier for the killer to tunnel, and even escaping a "proximity camper" situation, specially if you are in a SWF that can coordinate through voice.
Of course, if your first and only option to deal with it is "be a martyr", it can be a little tricky.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688721#Comment_3688721
I meant twenty minutes.
Get a group together, queue up, sit in queue, probably get dodged a couple times, load in, look around, do a bit of a gen, get chased, go down and die. Wait for your friends to play out the game without you.
Boom, twenty minutes gone for a horrible experience.
Well, that's even better: That argument can be used in any game with a long enough queue time where you can lose the match. Even F2P ones. You know why? Because it is a risk you take in every single competitive game the moment you click the "Join game" button.
Do you know where you can get a guaranteed experience without having to worry about wasting any minute looking for a match that you may lose and / or having a bad time? Single player games. Maybe even PvE cooperative games, if you play with friends and don't get salty with them if you get wiped out.
Just saying.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688552#Comment_3688552
Believe it or not but there exists a ton of distance between “perk sucks” and “one of the best in the game.”
Correct! DH is still one of the best perks in the game, but if you compare it to its previous iterations, obviously it "sucks".
That's the point.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688546#Comment_3688546
1. Fortnite is f2p game.
2. Dbd is not competetive game.
3. Dbd is asymetrical game. In most of those games, match ended when either team is totally wiped out, with some kinds of respawn.
4. With getting better, killers also arę better, and still, same small mistake means end of playing.
5. Making mistake and loosing in fortnite is instant. In dbd it takes 1min per hook stage, and how much time spend in chase.
6. Even being really god. Looping killer for 10min, while other survs done gens, and then dying on a hook, means loss, and gives almost no reward.
1.- So? Are you saying that just because you paid for the game you are entitled to win / have fun? Because if you are not, I don't know why it matters.
2.- Yes it is, a PvP competitive game in every sense.
3.- What does being "asymmetrical" have to do with whatever win condition the game has? Because there are plenty of asymmetrical games out there that don't fit your description, starting with any Fighting game ever released. Either way, what has this to do with anything said?
4.- Yes… and? Getting better doesn't mean your mistakes are not equally punished as when you started playing, it means you make less of them so you are not punished as often.
5.- Totally false, in Fortnite you could have been in the match for 10 minutes without seeing anyone and then get sniped and lose. In fact, in DbD at least you have the chance to recover from your mistake as technically you have 3 "lives".
6.- False. Because yes, you still lose, but you receive all the points you earned doing all that, including the points you receive from those other survivors doing gens (because yes, you also receive points for gens being done even if you don't touch them yourself). What you won't receive is the bonus for escaping, because obviously, you didn't escape. But again, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687780#Comment_3687780
Ayrun is also a super experienced player (who plays survivor mainly, unlike Otzdarva the killer main). He says DH kinda sucks now… and he can actually use it. So who wins?
That's like saying that NOED sucks now because it is an Hex and shows its aura to survivors.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688494#Comment_3688494
This. Its why I cant keep friends playing. "Why would I keep playing this trash?" Is a direct quote. I'd say about 5-6 people this month alone tried the game for me and nope'd out. Most we're tunneled immediately and didn't get to play until we went customs.
And they'll keep playing customs. They'll never touch live again.
That's like playing Fortnite and uninstalling it because you don't know what you are doing and get killed not even one minute into the match because, well, you are a noob that doesn't know what you are doing. The reason to keep playing the "trash" is to get good at it. When I started playing DbD as killer, if I had said to stop playing because I lost I wouldn't have lasted a week playing either.
I mean, I get it, competitive games are not for everybody but you should blame the player, not the game.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688484#Comment_3688484
What would you say to someone who tells you that "making a mistake and hanging on the hook for the rest of the trial" is the game you payed for and that you should be enjoying yourself?
That he is wrong in the "enjoying losing" part, but right in everything else. Nobody likes losing, but it is part of any competitive game, and talking like you are right now only makes you look like someone who thinks they are entitled to "have fun" (win) in a multiplayer competitive game just because "you paid for it".
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@Garboface said:
These games are brutal. It's like every killer is trying out for the Olympics and they might die if they don't make the team.
People can make whatever claims they want about tunneling being ineffective but it's shutdown nearly every game of the last 20 or so I've played. This, when there hasn't even been a gen finished. Can a guy make some points before being steamrolled?
Seriously, is there something I don't know about going on?
People can make whatever claims they want about tunneling being ineffective
Tunneling is the most effective strategy to follow and would ever be by design. The sooner one survivor leaves the game, the better for the killer.
What is true is that right now, tunneling is not as "viable" as before, and the times it is, is mostly survivors fault.
Maybe, just maybe, don't go to the save the moment the killer hooks somebody, and try to not unhook your teammate with the killer around. It will be the same to unhook 40 seconds after as long as you don't let the hooked survivor get to the second phase. That way, you gave time for the killer to move away from the hook and get distracted, and even if you didn't complete the gen you were doing, you would leave it with way more charges than just instantly going to the rescue.
Also, if the killer is doing "proximity camping", again, try to be smart about it instead of simply "YOLOing" it like most survivors do everytime I play SoloQ. If you time it right, you would only get hurt once and you would give enough time for the unhooked survivor to use his 10 seconds of free Haste and Endurance to at least get to a loop and waste more time from the killer. If you don't, at least you would trade, which gives the other two survivors up to another 60 seconds to keep doing gens and go for your rescue.
To finish, if you are not a good enough looper to force the killer to drop chase and / or you are constantly getting tunneled, well, that's why anti-tunneling perks exist. They are going to buff DS soon, so time to start using it.
This, when there hasn't even been a gen finished.
As a killer main that also play SoloQ I can say to you, talking from experience, that if from 1 to 3 gens don't pop between the first hook and the start of the second chase, your team is doing something wrong. Specially if the killer is tunneling, even more if he is 2º hooking that survivor so fast that not even 1 gen gets done in the meantime.
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Oh yes, great idea! I can't wait for someone to tank a hit with DH after a 30 second chase and then go flying through a window with Lithe just after!…
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By this logic, should we make everybody one handed so the game is fair for players with only one hand?
Serious question.
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687544#Comment_3687544
15s is the activation duration it only gives 3s of aura reading & reveals your aura is being read with the blindness effect.
Well, that's less amazing. It should be 5 seconds, at least.
Still, I see myself using this version more than the old. The only killers that I have it slotted at the moment are Blight and Pig for the interrupt build.
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15 seconds of aura reading in your TR every 60 seconds by just opening a locker sounds good to me. I don't know if they pretended to nerf the perk, but in my opinion they transformed a perk with a 7.38% pickrate (according to Nightlight) that was mostly useful to high mobility killers into a good aura perk that is useful for everybody.
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Obviously, no. Nowadays, there are enough game mechanics artificially hindering and forcing killers to not make certain plays to guarantee survivors a chance without having to officially apply the "Holy Survivor's Rulebook" on top of that.
Survivors already have all the in-game tools they need in form of perks / strategies to solve all those situations that you mentioned there. You only need to learn them and get the minimum game sense required to use them right.
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Not just on controller. I don't know how many times I was forced to hit a wall with K&M when I could just lunge around it and get the hit if I had full control of it.
And about why the developers are not addressing it, my suspicion is that the system is part of the "unconventional" collision system the game uses for attacks. And if this is the case, I don't think we will ever see this solved.
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It depends on the day and the killer used. Most days chat is dead, other days (specially if you use a "Survivor No-approved" killer like SM) the salt flows non-stop.
Funny enough, I usually receive more salt when I lose than when I win.
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@catnip18 said:
You should probably have rephrased this because everyone is sticking on the lottery aspect. A better phrasing would have been a developer in charge of balancing things evenly in a PVP setting would be immediately fired and blacklisted for having numbers like this in any other mainstream PVP game if the goal was actual fairness.
Except it would be not true as it is not a balancing issue, is a cooperation one and how people play the game and there is no amount of balancing or communication features that would change this.
In fact, what those numbers prove is precisely that you can't balance the game around SoloQ as it would only make full SWF stronger. Like OP said, "let's just accept that SoloQ will always be like this" because like I said, this is the reality in any team based game out there.
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@TheNameIsGilgamesh said:
They always pick the best stuff. Best addons, best items, best survivor, best killer, best offerings, best addons, best strategy. Anything. It's extremely boring it's no wonder why people just quit and go play a different game. There is no fun in it. The game is STALE and the devs refuse to do anything about it.
Dbd is the only game they have. All their other games have failed I mean the proof is in the pudding look at Meet your Maker. Deathgarden is literally dead. If this game ends up losing all the players, then they'll lose their company as well and that's a fact.
You mean, like in any other competitive game? Even in MTG, with infinite possible combinations of cards to make a deck, each expansion would have a number of "META decks" that dictates what strategies are viable or not in high ranks.
Best character, best weapon, best perk combination, best attacks... no matter the genre, there would always be a "better" / most efficient way to play. If you don't like that aspect of the game, maybe it's just that competitive games are not for you.
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@TheNameIsGilgamesh said:
Let's keep it real, you have better odds winning the lottery than winning a SoloQ game with 3 strangers.
This image shown above is proof. If these official statistics, from the developers themselves, doesn't convince you then I don't know what will.
They can add all the whistles and bells they want. They can break a killer's leg to give the SoloQ an advantage, it will not work.
Let's just accept that SoloQ will always be like this. SWF will always triumph.
Maybe this is surprising for someone, but that's how it works in any team based game that requires cooperation. Even in games where you have all the tools to communicate and coordinate, playing with strangers would always be less effective than playing in a group with friends / trusted players.
In fact, this game is the only team game where I had seen anyone complaining that "playing solo is worst". Of course it's worst, as in any other game.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638587#Comment_3638587
I only play solo Q when I play survivor, because I don't have people to play with. And no, you can't just easily magically get friends who will be into DBD and resonate with you personality-wise and want to play when you want to play.
I think most of DBD survivors are solo Q. Neglecting us is a bad choice for the game's health.... and our will to play survivor / DBD.
I also play mostly SoloQ when playing survivor, and nobody is neglecting "us" for not balancing the game around you. At contrary, balancing the game around solo players would only make those that play like a SWAT team in a 4 people SWF stronger, and that's what is truly bad for the game's health. That, and like I said, any single team-based game out there is "worst" when playing with people you don't know and you can't communicate with to coordinate.
Also, I never said "get some friends", what I said is that what you should be asking for if you are so worried about "SoloQs" is for in game communications to at least have the minimum tools required to try coordinating. DbD Mobile has a Quickchat function, something that would be perfect to have in the main version too as it is the middle ground between voice chat and a ping system:
This is what would help SoloQ, not balancing a team based game for the solo players.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
Thats really weird. I've NEVER had that happen to me a single time before now.
Maybe because Enduring has a 5.51% pick rate (according to Nightlight) and what you described was a very specific situation that is unlikely to happen in any match, Enduring or not.
In other words: Congratulations, you had hit the reverse jackpot.
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If I have to guess, they will make the progress on boxes not get lost when interrupted to prevent the scream builds, change the start up time and maybe the distance of the ambush to at least try to make it viable, and maybe a little more speed while crouching.
On the other hand, nerf The Pig. Nerfing The Pig would solve every problem with the game right now.