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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706682#Comment_3706682
yes that is a bug, that's something that's been decided as being needed and 10s is far too short. I believe we're still looking at keeping it the same as it was previously, which I believe is 30s but would have to check, there's no current plans to change that but thank you for your feedback.
So, the only significant change to the killer that solved one of their biggest problems, making it The change that makes them bearable to play now, is a bug that is going to be reverted after years of reworking them. Great, just great.
And
according to the Wiki, right now the times are 20 seconds latched + 10 seconds of "regrowth"(EDIT: I have been informed that it was, in fact, 36 seconds total) the times are 30 seconds latched + 6 seconds of "regrowth", compared to the 16 seconds minimum it is now if you recall them (10 until you are able to recall, 6 to regrow).Crazy idea: Why not just make the latch max time 20 instead of 30, the regrow take 10 seconds instead of 6 and still allow for recalling him after 10 seconds of being latched, making it from 20 to 30 seconds total? That way, it would reduce the overall time he is on the match (including all the other times you will recall him) while still allowing the killer to decide if it is better to have him back earlier or let him latched 10 seconds more, instead of survivors forcing it to be 36 seconds.
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I liked the Xeno on release, but when they implemented the number changes it started to feel "slow". Something that I myself don't understand, as its cooldown numbers don't differ much from other killers that I play, but that's why I don't play it unless I have a daily.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
Blame hens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBvvC6gEQ0&t=37s
they nerfed interaction by making his chain count as special but now it has inconsistency with other killer powers.
That's the problem. It would make sense if they made it a special attack if you have an addon that makes it hurt survivors. It doesn't make any sense that basekit chains still make you lose stacks.
That's not Hens's fault, it's the developers for not solving this properly and going for the easy solution.
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@CrypticGirl said:
The D-pad is used for pointing and the "follow me" gesture, at least by default. I have no idea how the quick chat would work. The few seconds it would take to do such an input could be costly, except for maybe the person on hook.
It would work like in any other game with that feature: You maintain or push the "Quickchat" button first, and then the Dpad or other button to send the chat. As OP said, you can also have subcategories for such buttons that lead to other messages.
Let's say L1 or the Z key is the Quickchat button, Up in the DPad or W is the "Unhook" category, and in that category Up or W again is "Going to unhook!". So, in a controller, you press L1 and then "Up - Up" to send that message, which would take you less than a second once you know where the messages are.
Simple, easy, and effective. It is a great substitute for in-game voice chat, as it also allows communication between people of different languages, and the devs don't need to set up and maintain voice servers for it.
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You can deactivate crossplay, as far as I know. While in the main menu (not in a lobby), go to options and it should let you turn it off. But take in count that this will force you to only play with people of your own platform (meaning, not even other consoles) and would probably make queue times way longer.
If you are fine with the drawbacks, go for it.
Google Translate: Vous pouvez désactiver le jeu croisé, pour autant que je sache. Dans le menu principal (pas dans un lobby), accédez aux options et cela devrait vous permettre de le désactiver. Mais notez que je pense que cela vous obligera à jouer uniquement avec des personnes sur votre propre plate-forme (c'est-à-dire même pas sur d'autres consoles) et prolongerait probablement les temps d'attente.
Si les inconvénients vous conviennent, allez-y.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703634#Comment_3703634
I wouldn't, because I don't think Ultimate Weapon is a good perk.
I think it's usable, but there are better options. That hasn't changed.
That's the thing. In my opinion, if it really were usable now, you would be able to think of at least a killer that could make the perk work. Even when Undone was announced I could have argued that you could make an impossible-skillcheck build for the Doctor with it.
I can't think of any build for any killer where the new UW would give any value.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Survivors can go through the Knight if they are being hunted by a guard. It’s always been like that
@Xernoton said:
This has always been the case though.
Huh, that's awkward. I guess I don't body block people that often, because I never notice.
Good to know.
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The funny thing is that DbD Mobile already has a Quick Chat feature and it has been asked to bring it to the PC version many times already. Let's hope they do it soon.
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@jesterkind said:
It's not really any worse than before for any killer that isn't one of the ultra-high mobility ones.
Before the change, UW was kind of mid when run on immobile killers, and decent enough on the best-case-scenario high speed killers like Blight or Billy. It also had a lower end than even that, though, because it was also totally useless on stealth killers.
Now, it's just pretty average on everyone. In all fairness, that was the goal, addressing how obnoxious it was on the high-speed killers while not harming it too much for everyone else. In fact, it got very slightly better for a reasonable number of the cast, which is a nice bonus.
All in all, eh, it's fine. A mid perk gets a bit more usable on most of the cast, and a fair bit weaker on a select few. It's not great but it's not the end of the world.
Just curious, in what killers do you see yourself using UW now efficiently, instead of using any other option?
Me, like any other "locker perk", in Huntress and Trickster as I will open lockers anyway. And even with them, I think there are better info options.
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703580#Comment_3703580
That interpretation has to be the furthest from what I said.
Regardless of what perk you insert, spending 2 minutes not doing gens in essentially sandbagging your team. How do you turn a survivor perk efficiency discussion into an "us vs them". I would expect killer would be happy if a survivor spent 2+ minutes in the basement while he hunts down the remaining 3.
It is not an "us vs them" or "perk efficiency" discussion. It is about not justifying griefing and harassing someone for any perk. Nobody is saying the perk is efficient, nobody is saying you can't be mad at someone bringing it, but saying that you should expect to get "flamed" for bringing a perk is insane and tells a lot about this community.
And yes, sorry, but I find pretty ironic that there are people here who literally called in other posts the toxicity and "lack of empathy for survivors" killers have when it was one doing it in similar situations, but in this case they are like "It is not ok, but I mean… you brought the perk dude. Totally understandable what they did to you".
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The best part for me is that this perk was only useful for high mobility killers for the most part, and it didn't even have a high pick rate. They nerf it anyway, making it worse but somewhat still useful… so then they make sure it is not useful for anybody.
I guess the plan was never to balance it but to make it useless (especially for high mobility killers, for what they said in the devlog).
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@Ebonbane2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703323#Comment_3703323
If Distortion took me off of gens for 120+ seconds and injured you for the remainder of the trial, I would expect to get flamed for using it.
If I was using actual Distortion and stayed off gens for 120+ seconds, I would expect to get flamed.
If I spent 120+ cumulative seconds booning shadow step (which would be slightly useful) in a match, I would expect to get flamed.
Again, I blame game design more than anything. Invocation should never have been created without being useful. And creating a 3v1 for 2+ minutes is not useful. It's like those challenges that require you to throw games.
SoloQ is frustrating enough as in and any and all game additions should take that into account.
So, what you are saying is that if you run perks like Distortion or Lithe, it is understandable and you should expect "getting flamed" by the killer, both in match and end chat, because he doesn't like them, disrupts his gameplay and is frustrating for him?…
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@ImWinston said:
- the funniest thing about this post are the people who say "don't worry honey, use Invocation as many times as you want"
I'm sure they are killer main🤣🤣🤣
(i'm joking of course)
The most funny part for me is that if this post were about a killer tunneling and camping a survivor and saying in the end chat "You are running Distortion, you deserved it", suddenly everybody who is saying that what OP teammates did was "not ok, but understandable" would be offended that someone was treated that way just for using a perk and calling anyone who used the same argumentation they are giving "unsympathetic".
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@Nerfpopalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703075#Comment_3703075
well I mean then literally don’t run invocation and expect your solo queue team mates to be happy solo is already unbearable as it is I don’t blame the team mates for being angry like dude I’m just being realistic
I don't think anybody is saying that you have the obligation to feel happy about someone bringing that perk. But griefing and harassing someone just because you are not happy with their perk choice is not justifiable in any way.
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How many are "several"? According to my math, using all charges of a yellow toolbox you should get 16.46 tokens in 13.33 seconds (1.234 stacks per second). Full 20 stacks in 16.2 seconds approx if using Commodious Toolbox.
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@OmegaXII said:
I probably won't buy those DLCs, as they're more expensive, and Killers are not that interesting to play..
If you don't plan to buy Nemesis or Demo anytime soon then yes, it is worth grabbing both perks. They allow for a lot of good builds and you can always farm more fragments, while you maybe won't have the chance to get those perks for free again in the future.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702032#Comment_3702032
So you take it out on the next group of survivors because the previous ones didn't express sufficient gratitude? You can generally win without tunneling or camping every game. It's an unranked public match.
Every public match in this game is ranked by default, even if we don't see our "ranks". The only way to get an unranked match right now is playing in custom games.
Also, it is a PvP game. It is not the job of the other team to make the game fun for you, but to win the match.
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2K is a draw in the MMR system, and as far as we know it means that you don't gain or lose MMR. Also, the MMR you gain or lose is based on your opponent's MMR, but if you gain or lose that MMR is only dependent on you winning (Escape through the exit gates for survivors, 3-4K for killers) or losing (Get killed for survivors, 0-1K for killers).
From the Wiki ( ):
Survivors gain points towards their MMR by escaping from ranked Trials and lose points for dying:
- Dying in the Trial is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Escaping through the Hatch is considered a draw.
- Escaping through the Exit Gate is considered a win towards MMR.
Killers gain points towards their MMR for killing Survivors in ranked Trials and lose points if they manage to escape:
- Killing 0 or 1 Survivor(s) is considered a loss towards MMR.
- Killing 2 Survivors is considered a draw.
- Killing 3 or 4 Survivors is considered a win towards MMR.
The strength of the MMR of one's opponents also influences the final amount of points Players gain or lose towards their MMR:
- If the opponent team has a higher MMR, but they lose, their losses towards their MMR are increased and the Player's gains towards their MMR are also increased.
- If the opponent team has a lower MMR, and they lose, their losses towards their MMR are reduced and the Player's gains towards their MMR are also reduced.
- If the opponent team has a higher MMR, and they win, their gains towards their MMR are reduced and the Player's losses towards their MMR are also reduced.
- If the opponent team has a lower MMR, but they win, their gains towards their MMR are increased and the Player's losses towards their MMR are also increased.
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Sincerely, I don't think there was anything else to "figure out" after looking at his perks. He was obviously speedhacking. It's not something new or uncommon either, this has been a big problem for well over a year now.
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@Brightened said:
1st Game:
Singularity hooks a Leon and starts to chase and down an Ada Wong.
Leaves her down and uses his teleport to come back to the hook right as the save happens on the Leon.Why would I play this game? So I die on hook. :)
2nd Game:
Leon gets downed. Haddie gets downed right next to Leon.
Leon gets hooked. I go for Leon. Haddie gets hooked right next to Leon because the hooks are literally right next to each other most of the time.
Unknown hooks Haddie and then goes back to Leon's hook and then is able to hit me AND spit the bomb on me.Why would I play this game? So I die on hook. :)
Like how are any measures being put in to actually help the survivors enjoy the game? In the past 2 years there has been nerfed flashlights, nerfed medkits, nerfed survivor perks, nerfed loops, nerfed boons, an increase in silent killers, an increase in anti-loop killers, an increase in teleporting killers, an increase in aura reading perks, an increase in screaming perks, an increase in exposure perks. What have survivors gotten exactly? The ability to unhook if a killer stays right in their face HOPEFULLY before they hit 2nd hook as long as no teammates are around? I'm sure the additional seconds to decisive strike will help in the next patch………….. as long as you do nothing that is considered a conspicuous action… such as existing.I already know these forums are killer-sided. The devs are killer-sided as well. But if no one ever actually speaks up for the survivors, you're going to lose them all.
PLAYERS DO NOT ENJOY SOLO-QUEUING ANYMORE.
PLAYERS FRIENDS HAVE STOPPED PLAYING BECAUSE OF THE IMBALANCE SO THEY STOP PLAYING ALSO.
I'm trying to understand where in those two situations the "tunneling and camping" is happening. As I'm reading it, the killer hooked someone, then chased another survivor, at least downed them, and then they predicted that a save would happen so they came back to defend those hooks, and instead of chasing the unhooked survivor, they chased and downed you.
Besides that, maybe I know this even when playing survivor because I'm a killer main, but if the killer hooks someone close to the previous hook and a save has not happened yet, he will come back to see if someone is going for it. It's something that you should expect and play accordingly. The same if he didn't find anybody else for a while.
As long as the survivor doesn't get to the next phase of the sacrifice, it will not matter if you unhook him 30 seconds after being hooked instead of going for it the moment the killer turns around (something that happens way more often than it should and is the main reason for tunneling and constant fast downs most of the time). That's why, when I play survivor, I usually wait a while before even going for the save to let the killer gain some distance or get distracted with another survivor.
The rule of thumb is, if the killer is not literally camping (as in that case, it will require a coordinated effort or simply let the Anti-FC do it's job depending on the situation), wait until the terror radius is gone and / or the killer is chasing someone else. That way, even if the killer tries come back to the hook, both of you will have more than enough time to gain distance.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701246#Comment_3701246
I have to say that is indeed a bit weird to just ignore each individual survivors mmrs and just average it out, despite calculating it for each of them seperatly. Like if you caught the top survivor in that game but had to let go the weaker ones that should count for more in my mind, but whatever the system is already quite bad, so this does not change much.
I d really like to know the wikis sources though, given that they are obviously not official, because the last time I got information on that the data miners gave the numbers I mentioned earlier... So that's quite interesting. I guess that is one of the few times where you cannot fully rely on the wiki... That and the old distance you got by deadharding.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701170#Comment_3701170
I mean imagine if you have a 4 men swf... 3 guys have 700 mmr, one guy is a cheater bot with max mmr, let's say 3k for the sake of it. The mmr you gain or lose is based on the difference between you and the survivor. You should get a lot more from someone who is higher than you or lose less, and the other way around. If you yourself have like 1k mmr you should lose not too much from those 3 guys escaping but gain quite a lot by killing the 3k cheater bot. (It is a bot for that example because no human can reach that mmr)
If those are given why should it not be possible to gain mmr with a 1k? It would make no sense at all if it didn't work like that,and it the whole system already makes very little sense.
The MMR gain is capped at +20 per trial, and as @Xernoton explained the amount you gain or lose is affected by the MMR of the opponent, but gaining or losing it depends only in winning (in case of the killer, +3K) or losing (0-1K):
The strength of the MMR of one's opponents also influences the final amount of points Players gain or lose towards their MMR:
- If the opponent team has a higher MMR, but they lose, their losses towards their MMR are increased and the Player's gains towards their MMR are also increased.
- If the opponent team has a lower MMR, and they lose, their losses towards their MMR are reduced and the Player's gains towards their MMR are also reduced.
- If the opponent team has a higher MMR, and they win, their gains towards their MMR are reduced and the Player's losses towards their MMR are also reduced.
- If the opponent team has a lower MMR, but they win, their gains towards their MMR are increased and the Player's losses towards their MMR are also increased.
By the way, the max MMR is 2100.
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@Karth said:
There IS a fandom wikipedia thats tells alot about the SBMMR system, but even then im personally not sure if this is all valid
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating
It's valid. The info on the wiki comes from official sources and data mining the game.
And I hope this comment is not erased again without warning or reason like my first one in this post.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699434#Comment_3699434
The thought of buffing Huntress & Twins that insane is the proof of Dev's path on balancing killers.
Maybe this is one of the reasons:
Also, the Twins rework was specifically made to change the slugging strat that survivors hate so much. They overtuned them? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it was made for the survivors, as Twins mains were perfectly fine with the way the killer worked before (they had more killrate being the least picked killer than the second most picked killer, after all) and if they just wanted to "make them OP", they could just buff their numbers and done.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699273#Comment_3699273
You may think you've proved your point but you think wrong; I recommend you read the post of mine you quoted to find out why, it explains your statistical misunderstanding of how averages work. I could rewrite what I already said but directing you to read what's already there is more efficient.
I already read it: A lot of twisted logic and assumptions that, in reality, it's nothing more than a big strawman argument (who said anything about the hatch?) that completely miss my real points. That's why I'm not going to even try to answer it.
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699246#Comment_3699246
The Real answer to your set of questions is that it doesn't matter, because as I've pointed out you can have a 62.5% win rate with a less than 50% kill rate.
You're trying to catch me out with gotchas such as the theoretical 100% winrate survivor (it would actually be a 37.5% win rate, as hatch escapes are at best a draw for survivor), the overall average winrate of slightly over 50% for survivors (again falsely assuming hatches are wins, the more accurate number is again 37.5%, but even with hatches counting as escapes that's still less than the 62.5% killer win rate in my hypothetical, btw) and then constructing counter-hypotheticals where a killer can only ever get at max a 2k, can never win, and forces the winrate to just around 30%.
Your attempts at gotchas prove you incorrect. You want to talk about averages, but your specific scenario where kills are reallocated between matches to make every individual match as close to the average as possible is one of the "specific made up scenarios" you decry, as ridiculous as my own made up scenario. A kill rate of just under 50% can mean any winrate from 0% to 62.5%, we cannot meaningfully detirmine what the actual win rate is. Your reallocation of kills to construct an "average" match is an elementary misunderstanding of how averages work . You cannot meaningfully construct an average win rate from kill rate, as the latter has far lower data resolution; if you want to use "averages" to discuss win rate where a 3/4k is the win condition, ONLY statistics wherein the average rate of each of those outcomes occurs per match is sufficient to prove any point about win rate, kill rate can tell you nothing.
I see you edited the questions after I pointed out how unclear they were. Thanks for doing that. Would have preferred a clarification post separate from that, but at least we got on the same page in the end
And by the way, the question edit was only to add the 3º one in the second case, even before seeing your need for "clarification" of a simple math problem that you provided. You can check by seeing the unedited copy on your post and then seeing mine. But funny that you seem to try to call me out for doing a shadow edit, by doing a shadow edit.
Like I said, have a nice day.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699246#Comment_3699246
The Real answer to your set of questions is that it doesn't matter, because as I've pointed out you can have a 62.5% win rate with a less than 50% kill rate.
You're trying to catch me out with gotchas such as the theoretical 100% winrate survivor (it would actually be a 37.5% win rate, as hatch escapes are at best a draw for survivor), the overall average winrate of slightly over 50% for survivors (again falsely assuming hatches are wins, the more accurate number is again 37.5%, but even with hatches counting as escapes that's still less than the 62.5% killer win rate in my hypothetical, btw) and then constructing counter-hypotheticals where a killer can only ever get at max a 2k, can never win, and forces the winrate to just around 30%.
Your attempts at gotchas prove you incorrect. You want to talk about averages, but your specific scenario where kills are reallocated between matches to make every individual match as close to the average as possible is one of the "specific made up scenarios" you decry, as ridiculous as my own made up scenario. A kill rate of just under 50% can mean any winrate from 0% to 62.5%, we cannot meaningfully detirmine what the actual win rate is. Your reallocation of kills to construct an "average" match is an elementary misunderstanding of how averages work . You cannot meaningfully construct an average win rate from kill rate, as the latter has far lower data resolution; if you want to use "averages" to discuss win rate where a 3/4k is the win condition, ONLY statistics wherein the average rate of each of those outcomes occurs per match is sufficient to prove any point about win rate, kill rate can tell you nothing.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699236#Comment_3699236
This doesnt need a math.
The whole point killers try to make "60% kill rate doesnt mean they win more than 50%" is just attempt to make Devs aim for higher kill rate balance, there is no reason other than this.
- So I put a math that there is no way the win rate is lower than 50%
- Why killers not content with 50% win but want survivors to content with 40% win
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699229#Comment_3699229
If 60% kill rate doesnt mean 60% kills, then what does it mean…?
Killers count a survivors death as a killer, either Mori, Hook, or Entity. Counting hatch escape as kill only increase killrate and gain unnecessary MMR for harder match (which is not benefit to killers). Win or lose is made up to each players, not by the rule.
If the post game instead showing "Merciless / Brutal killer", but showing "You win" everytime killers get 8 hooks but 0K, will they play fair and spread hook?
No, the more kills, the better.
So, both of you, instead of doing the math and honestly see what the numbers mean (among other things, that a 60% killrate on average doesn't mean that there won't be players that wins more than 40% of the time and others less [that's why, again, it's an average], and because the asymmetrical nature of the game and all of the outcome possibilities the only way that every player has a balanced and equal chance of winning is getting as close as possible to the mathematical equality of 40% winrate that 60% killrate provides, which is what I have explained numerous times to both of you and others in other posts already), would simply evade the question and respond with fallacies because it directly contradicts your narrative of "Killers OP, 60% killrate unfair".
I think I proved my point (again). Have a nice day.
PD — The answers:
- Case A:
1.- 100% winrate for that sole survivor, even if the killrate is 46.875%
2.- 53.125% survivor winrate, even if the winrate of the killer is 62.5%- Case B:
1.- 2K per game, at max.
2.- 0% winrate for that killer.
3.- 31.25% killer winrate on average, while survivors winrate would be way more than 50%. -
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699236#Comment_3699236
I literally just told you I do not understand what you were saying. I cannot answer those questions until you clarify what the questions were
Dude, it is a simple math problem that you, yourself, provided. I don't know what I need to clarify here.
Read the main situation you provided ("If a killer plays 8 games, wins 5 with a 3k, and then loses the next 3 with a 0k each time") and answer the questions according to the two cases I provided for that same situation.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699213#Comment_3699213
I wanna make sure I understand what you're saying here. It seems like your first question is asking "what is the winrate of the survivors in these games, if you only count the survivors who escaped." Your second point seems to be "we cannot make any assumptions based on kill rate alone, therefore we must make the assumption of the absolute minimum possible winrate". Are those the positions you are trying to take here? I'm racking my brain and cannot come up with another interpretation of what you've said, but I find it hard to believe that's what you'd argue.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699228#Comment_3699228
Oh so thats mean some survivors have 30% escape rate so other can have 50% escape. But is that 30% escape rate okay for you?
Do the math homework I gave you, and then we continue the debate.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699221#Comment_3699221
The chart with Possibility 1 shows after 5 matches (0K 0K 4K 4K 4K) with 12 kills/8 escapes (60% kill rate, with 60% win rate, 40% lose).
Goes the same for other 3 possibilities.
Then what you are not getting (among other things) is, again, that for it to be a 60% killrate on average some players need to do more, and other less. That's why it is an average.
I invite you to answer the questions I made to @ratcoffee and see it yourself.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699213#Comment_3699213
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P4043E6UQSTQ/image.png
40% win is the lowest possibility, while 80% win is highest possibility. Of course in a thousand of games, you dont get exact 400 matches with 3K and 600 matches with 2K to argue about "Killers only have 40% win". But rather a mix between all 4 possibility, which is about 58% win rate in average.
What survivors have? 40%.
Sorry, I'm trying to understand what you posted, but I don't even know what this "possibilities" are about, not how you calculated that, or how it answer any of the questions I made.
It would be helpful if you explained it with more detail.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699091#Comment_3699091
If a killer plays 8 games, wins 5 with a 3k, and then loses the next 3 with a 0k each time:
- What is the killer's win rate?
- What is the killer's kill rate?
- What result, on average, is the killer getting?
Seeing that @Archael already answered you, I have another question: In those 8 games, the same one survivor always escaped.
1.- What is the winrate of that sole survivor on those 8 games?
2.- Counting the escapes of the other 3 survivors in the 3 0K games, what is the winrate of all the survivors in those 8 games?And another: In the same scenario of 8 games, another killer kills the same amount of survivors, but equally distributed between the 8 games.
1.- What is the maximum "nK" that the killer would have done in those 8 games?
2.- Taking in count that, what is the winrate of this killer?
3.- If only this two killer players existed in the game, what would be the average winrate of killers?When you answer, you would see why thanks to the asymmetry of win conditions and outcome possibilities you have to balance it taking in count averages, not specific made up scenarios. And if you not, I already wrote walls of text in other posts explaining it to you (and others like you), so I will not do it again.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699071#Comment_3699071
"A 53% killrate means killers almost always draw with the surivors. This is because a win for the killer is a 3K, with 2K being a draw and 1 or 0K means a loss."
Absolutely and completely false. Average does not mean that number is the most likely outcome. A 50% kill rate would mean something like this (roughly)
20% chance of 0k, 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k. So a 2k would only happen about 20% of the time.
Another person that doesn't know what an average is, apparently.
And no, a 50% killrate would mean 2 survivors killed on average per match, which also means that killers draw their games on average.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699066#Comment_3699066
Technically… each survivor is a mini-match for killer as well (at least in terms of MMR). A killer gains/loses MMR for each survivor they kill or fail to kill. This was clarified by the devs a little while ago.
Yes and no, as for the killer it counts the total of survivors killed to gain or lose MMR, but each individual kill or escape would make the gains or losses bigger or lower depending on each survivor MMR.
That's what the wiki says, which info is compiled not just from official sources, but also from data mining the game itself.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699021#Comment_3699021
"Asymmetrical" has nothing to do with kill or win rate. It simply means uneven teams and different roles on both sides. It's perfectly possible to have an asymmetrical game that aims to balance 50/50 for both sides. This game used to be, before 6.1 the kill rate was 53% and the playerbase was growing every year. Yet I keep seeing killer mains saying the game is more balanced now than in the past. This is the only pvp game I've heard of where the devs intentionally state their desire to make it unbalanced with a 60/40 split.
A 53% killrate means killers almost always draw with the surivors. This is because a win for the killer is a 3K, with 2K being a draw and 1 or 0K means a loss.
That's the reason behind the 60/40. 60% killrate means 2.4 survivors killed per match on average (or, 40% winrate) at the same time that survivors escape 40% of the time, or in other words, also 40% winrate for survivors as them only need to escape themselves to win, as I already said.
There, your "equality in the inequality". That's why they want a 60% killrate and why the game was unbalanced before, not now.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699021#Comment_3699021
It doesnt matter if its an asymmetrical design or not. Assuming that equal skill doesnt exist is ignorant on a fundamental level. Also it doesnt matter if theyre equal or not by design, cause the game itself sets them on an equal stage: The one is as powerful as the four summed up as a team. Survivors are not solo players.
It doesnt matter if its an asymmetrical design or not. Assuming that equal skill doesnt exist is ignorant on a fundamental level.
Enlighten me, then: How would you measure how good a survivor is in comparison to a good Nurse, when they don't even need to have the same game sense and knowledge as the decisions they should make and the way they should play are completely different?
Also it doesnt matter if theyre equal or not by design, cause the game itself sets them on an equal stage: The one is as powerful as the four summed up as a team.
And again, how do you measure exactly whether their "power levels" are equal? For not saying that you are wrong again, as by design, survivors have the upper hand at the start of the match. The killer is more "powerful" than one survivor, not the four combined.
That's why if the killer doesn't pressure them enough to hinder their progress survivors would escape, and the main reason for tunneling, AKA getting a survivor out of the game as soon as possible, being the most effective strategy for a killer to follow.
Survivors are not solo players.
But they are in terms of winning or losing. The match is only a "1v4" for the killer. For the survivors, each one of them has their own match with the killer, and getting killed would only mean a loss for that survivor, the same as if he escape only he would win (or, as devs said in the day, for them it is a "1v1,1,1,1).
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3698413#Comment_3698413
If you play vs equal opponents it needs to be a 50:50 game. Thats how balanced gameplay would work. Expecting to get 4ks at this level is just entitlement. That only works if youre far superior to your opponents. And to your quastion, I have several hours more than you and I am only playing Trapper (or Nurse if i want challenges easily done in single games).
It seems to be a skill issue on your end.
That would make any sense, if this game wasn't asymmetrical. In your "50/50" case, the killer draw because he did a 2K, two survivors won as survivors win by escaping by themselves, and two other survivor lost because they died.
There is not 50/50 in this game, as survivors are not a team and if you die and your other three teammates get out, you have lost anyway. And you can't compare if your opponents are "equal" because they are not equal by design. Not their gameplay, not the skill needed to play them, nothing. You are either good at looping the killer and better at mindgames than him, or you are not.
@ImWinston said:
"survivors have each other to rely on" … I suggest less streaming of survival main and more "real" game in soloq🤣
But that's a survivor problem, not a killer one. It's not the killer's fault if your teammates don't have enough game sense to make the right decision at the right time.
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Before they added the bots, if there was some disconnection at the beginning of the game I would give hatch and even just let them do the gens and leave.
But now, like someone said in this forums, "I give hatch for every survivor that stepped out of the gates so I can have a 1K".
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@Commander_Nefarious said:
survivors just complain about tunneling and slugging and camping and noed but dont realize its difficult to play killer. managing time, perks, choosing chases. its only 1 person vs 4.
survivors have each other to rely on but the killer is all alone, and have to be ur own ally
No, they don't. The same as they don't realize that most of the games they lose are because their teammates mistakes and bad decisions, not the killer doings.
Whoever says the contrary has not played killer for long enough.
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@OFM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697927#Comment_3697927
I see two flashlights so not picking up was probably the best idea.
That aside though, in my eyes this scenario is just the survivor side equivalent of camping a hook in endgame to secure a kill…
Except camping in the endgame have a counter, coordinate a save, and this have not. That's why it should be fixed.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697913#Comment_3697913
Yeah when she starts healing, a. Does not prove the possibility to block by using your hotbox and b. Does not prove he tried to block that...
It has been in then game for ages, if they wanted to fix it they would have, especially if they considered it an exploit... And I would assume you cannot accidentally program it like that and then not fix it after years of seeing it is a thing... So the assumption would be it is intended and not an exploit.
Yeah when she starts healing, a. Does not prove the possibility to block by using your hotbox and b. Does not prove he tried to block that...
So, the "Pick up" prompt disappearing, which literally means he was on top of that survivor and was able to grab him for half a second before someone started healing even with him there, does not prove that it is impossible to block it by being on top of the survivor. Just because you don't see it with the first person view in a gif. Alright…
https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdryRespectfulJellyfishTriHard-CDsSfoST9OHWhUucWhat about this one, in a 720p - 30 fps video from the survivor's perspective? Was that Ghostface on top of the survivor before anybody started healing him, and the other one still negated the possibility of picking him up by doing the healing action regardless, yes or no?
It has been in then game for ages
I had never seen survivors abuse it like this in all the time I have been playing this game, only recently. So, you are assuming too much, starting with BHVR knowing that it is being abused this way.
But again, either way and no matter how you look at it, exploit or not, it should be fixed.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697798#Comment_3697798
I cannot really see him trying from just that gif... If a survivor can block the killers prompt by simply being there this should work the other way around as well.
Also how'd you know it is an exploit? Might as well be intended for all we know.
I cannot really see him trying from just that gif... If a survivor can block the killers prompt by simply being there this should work the other way around as well.
You can literally see not only that he is on top of the Iron Maiden shirt survivor most of the time, but how the "Pick up" prompt disappears when the Ada starts healing him.
So no, it doesn't work the other way around.
Also how'd you know it is an exploit? Might as well be intended for all we know.
Because even if for some unknown reason they coded that the killer can't grab a downed survivor if he is getting healed on purpose, survivors are using that game mechanic to get saves when they should not. Ergo, exploiting and it should be fixed. And if not, then there is no reason for it to work like it does so survivors can abuse it, so there is no reason to not fix it.
However you want to look at it, it should be fixed.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697699#Comment_3697699
During that cooldown your are able to move and block their prompt as well aren't you?
I dont know, I don't mind these kinds of interactions as they add another layer of gameplay. I don't necessarily like that gameplay, but the idea of it. And labeling every little tech as an exploit is kind of ridiculous.
During that cooldown your are able to move and block their prompt as well aren't you?
No, you can't. Have you not seen the gif OP posted? Even if you are standing on top of them, they can still prevent you from grabbing the downed survivor.
And labeling every little tech as an exploit is kind of ridiculous
It is not when it is literally a mechanic exploit. And even if it wasn't, again, there is no reason for this to be the way it is right now.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697606#Comment_3697606
I have never seen that and don't think the hit ox is big enough for that and even if, they lose collision when you hit them once and another survivor can't be there fast enough to block the slug again...
Just as they are not fast enough for another one to keep healing the survivor while the 2.7 seconds of cooldown are in effect, right?
Either way, there is no reason for this to be a thing. Simple as that.
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@Archol123 said:
Thats a proper skill issue on the killer side... The counterplay is fairly easy.. You wait until they finish the heal and hit them, they backflip and get further away from the exit... And you repeat that until you can either down someone else and pick them up or get the pickup on the already downed survivor.
Except that's not even true as they don't even need to heal. I had this done to me by just standing on top of the downed survivor, preventing me from grabbing him.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696444#Comment_3696444
acomplishing that is on paper pretty easy. all they need to do is making the survivor lose all colision. and now tunneling is gone for ever. ofcourse that effect needs conditions and rules.
give the survivor 3 minutes where nothing can harm them that way no killer will wait it out cause they will just loose the game. the survivor ofcourse looses that effect the second they do anything that progresses the game like doing a gen a totem stuff like that.
now we come to the more tricky part. now that tunneling is gone what needs to happen to keep the game balanced cause im pretty sure with tunneling gone kill rates will make a drop. do gens now need to take longer? wich killer need buffs now? do chases need to shorter? thos are all important question that i ofcourse cant answer right now thats all stuff that needs to be monitored on the go and that absolutly means that the game will feel wierd and unbalanced for a while until bhvr gets everything right.
overall getting rid of tunneling is quite hard in reallity but im 100% sure its worth to do that work since i dont think tunneling like it is right now is good for the game and just throwing perks at every problem in the hope something sticks inst going to work forever
"all they need to do is making the survivor lose all colision. and now tunneling is gone for ever" Along with any possibility of survivors getting punished for any of their mistakes. It was an awful idea the first time someone suggested it, even more now with all the systems in place that already provide survivors with artificial safety for many things, including hard tunneling (Basekit BT + having enough game sense to do all those things that would either prevent or solve it, like not unhooking near the killer or body blocking him).
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@NotDuality said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689960#Comment_3689960
alot of people asked this and i apologize for not specifying it (i meant too)
i mainly play ghostface and other m1 killers, they're the ones i struggle maintaining pressure than opposed to someone like blight for exampleUsing his power correctly Ghostface could be pretty good at maintaining pressure, as you would get downs fast. It is one of the few killers that can get away with using Surge as it only regression / slowdown. In fact, I think that the most important perks for him are Surge and Mindbreaker as what you want is to basically stalk the survivors when they are distracted doing gens to at least 99% them.
My build for Ghosty is: Surge, Mindbreaker, Brutal Strength and Discordance, with Walleye's Matchbook and Drop-Leg Knife Sheath / "Philly" if not enough purples.
For other M1 killers, as people already said, depends on the killer and the playstyle. For example, I use an endgame build with Trapper (NOED, Fire Up, No Way Out and STBFL to help in chase, with Iridescent Stone and Honing Stone / Trapper Sack) while others prefer builds with Corrupt Intervention to compensate for the time spent setting traps.
For The Wraith I use a "genkick" build (Surge, Pop Goes the Weasel, Brutal Strength and STBFL with "All Seeing" - Spirit and "Swift Hunt" - Blood) as my play with him is to focus on pressure the gens, try to down fast thanks to STBFL, and immediately after hooking cloak and go to the most progressed gen to kick it and chase whoever was doing it. But one common build for Wraith is simply a pure chase build with "Shadow Dance" - Blood and Bamboozle to catch the survivors on those hard loops with windows.
With a build that's good for the killer and the way you play it, and the general tips everybody has given you, you should be able to start downing people faster and pressure the gens enough so they don't fly past the first or two that you should consider lost in almost every game. Apart from that, the worst enemies for a M1 killer are pallets and survivors getting distance, so perks and addons that help with those things are a must.
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The zombies are super annoying and does too much
Yeah, except when they are at the side of the map where there are no survivors, completely ignore survivors that pass besides them, accidentally body block you when you are carrying someone or just when a survivor passed from that same door and they didn't care, are constantly getting blinded by flashlights, or my favorite: When they just get stuck on the terrain until you kill them. With special mention to them being still in "following mode" while the survivor is on the other side of the map already, and they don't even point in the right direction that the survivor went.
If they need anything is a buff and a functional AI with proper survivor detection.
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"Killers that charge their ability automatically" yeah, that's what a cooldown is. No need to add something else on top of that.
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She will hit me before she even appears after a blink
That's why you should react to her charging her blink, which is audio cued. If she is far away and she charged it for long, run to her. If she is close, try to get her stuck in the loop or make her miss. If you are behind a wall, trick her to blink to where she thinks you are going. You can not loop her the same way you would loop any other killer.
That, and like people said, she always appears before hitting or blinking again.
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It would also be great if they fixed the slowdown bug as soon as possible, as there have been 2 hotfix patches and no fix in either of them:
Seriously, how they manage to bug this killer one way or another with every new patch they release, even when it has nothing to do with him?