Bardon
Bardon
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@ViperTheCharon said:
Maybe looking at the title could create a bit of controversy over nurse defenders and others, but to point it out:
Nurse is not the hardest killer anymore. (Hillbilly is IMO)
Only counterplay to her is when she makes a mistake.
Blink Attacks counting as Basic Attacks is BS. (because of perks that apply exposed and other things, for example: "Jolt" "Sloppy Butcher")
She is still S-tier for past 6 years. (I actually don't bother that)
I don't know if it's true but she's the second most picked killer in the game. (behind huntress)
If BHVR could take a notice at this (probably won't), maybe she would be balanced out, if there were some proper suggestions for her changes.
What are your thoughts?
Here we go again with the 4,328th thread asking "When will they nerf Nurse" with the same, nonsensical suggestions.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
I hate the flashlight changes. I understand why, but the flashlight just feels so clunky and weird now. Very unresponsive. I feel I have to completely relearn flashlight saves now. Something just feels off.
It's not as big a change as when they ravaged Deathslinger's ADS - you'll get used to the new version like we did.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3225500#Comment_3225500
No, I'm saying it's accurate because tunneling and slugging are not required to be successful as a killer in the game. If you absolutely HAVE to slug and tunnel out to secure a kill, then it 100% means you're bad. You didn't patrol and control gens, you didn't have a good grip of the map, and you don't have the attention span or skill to focus on more than one survivor at a time. At no point, with any killer, on any map, are those "strats" REQUIRED for a win.
Dude, again all that is solely your opinion. Watch tournaments - show me one tournament where the winner never slugged or tunnelled. I would honestly love to see that evidence but from all my looking I can't find one instance, which rather disproves your absolute assertion that if you tunnel or slug "then it 100% means you're bad".
But if you've got the evidence I would honestly love to see it, please share!
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Sounds like a nightmare when 1 or 2 members of a squad are dedicated to Flashbangs and suddenly 1 Flashbang becomes 6 Flashbangs dodging to hook
Yeah, it seems that has the potential to be seriously abused.
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@HeyItsQuiet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220201#Comment_3220201
It's incredibly accurate, considering I can consistently achieve 3-4k without slugging or tunneling, and that's saying something because I often feel like I'm terrible as killer. I don't need to ruin the gameplay of 4 other people just to win a non-ranked, noncompetitive match. There are a plethora of killer perks and playstyles that allow them to be successful without targeting one person at a time, or putting everyone on the ground. Not to mention, you earn way fewer points by slugging everyone and not engaging in chase, and you lose gens FAST if deciding to tunnel out one by one.
I also personally don't think downing someone with Victor then picking up as Charlotte constitutes slugging; not if they're immediately heading for the downed survivor after the character switch. Running around as yeetus fetus and leaving everyone on the ground one by one without picking up, however, would be.
So you're saying "It's accurate because that's how I play." Well that explains a lot.
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@KrazyKatFTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220444#Comment_3220444
You got a scummy attitude, tunnelling because your that desperate to win is pathetic, killer is the the dominant role in the game and good killers dictate the pace and the tone of the game far more than survivors. Good killers should dish out fun competitive games instead of depressing must win at all cost boring snoozefests.
It's interesting that you feel entitled enough to declare how killers "should" play the game. You do know that The Survivor Rulebook isn't an actual thing, right?
People can play however they like and what determines if they are good at it is how successful they are.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3220142#Comment_3220142
"Massive ADS nerf"
They slowed down his aim from 0.1 seconds to 0.4 seconds.
0.4 seconds.
If 0.4 seconds isn't fast enough I don't know what to say to you.
They also slowed down his recovery from ADS and his turn speed (essentially nonexistent) so quick-shotting is no longer possible - definitely not "at the drop of a hat".
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@twin187211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3219271#Comment_3219271
Bro I was looping the killer around the school I asked them why they did me that and the reply was because I kept running buy the gen she was doing so instead of taking a hit for me on a team effort she bodyblock me then teabag me on the hook while the killer camped me because I looped him so long you can't justify that type of behavior that is cheating on survivors part and cheesy on The Killers part
Wait - "I kept running by the gen she was doing" - so you repeatedly led the killer to the gen that a team-mate was working on? Sounds like you were griefing her first, to be honest, and that likely had something to do with why she wouldn't take a protection hit for you.
Okay, she still shouldn't have bodyblocked you but it's at least more understandable.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3218238#Comment_3218238
Slugging and tunneling are strategies that the killer can use to complete their objective, which is to prevent gens from being completed and killing off survivors. Both killers and survivors only have one way to 'win'. For survivors, it's to finish all five generators and leave through the exit gates. For killers, its to kill all four survivors. It seems like the killer always has the choice to play hard, or to play casually because killer gameplay is more dynamic. Survivor gameplay, on the other hand, is either do generators, or don't. As survivor, you can't really just not do generators without being accused of throwing or being unskilled. But if a killer decides to 'throw' a game, by not tunneling and making sure to get 8 stages before killing anyone off, they are seen as playing the game correctly and fair. I do not believe this is a double-standard, but rather people not seeing the different depths of each role.
Agreed - in particular the mechanics of some killer's powers mean that slugging in particular is the only viable option. Take Twins for example - they literally cannot pick up without slugging unless they never use their power, in which case an already weak killer is just useless. Oni & Sadako also have compelling reasons to slug to retain/spread their power. Tunnelling has become a requirement for low-mobility killers with the advent of CoH, which completely killed the Hit & Run playstyle in particular for the territorial killers like Trapper and Hag.
There are many more examples but just to help clarify that the statement by @HeyItsQuiet that "Facecamping, slugging, or tunneling someone out is a conscious decision made by killers who lack the skill to control a match or focus on more than one person at a time." is just not accurate.
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It's better than the damned snowmen, though that bar is pretty low.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216963#Comment_3216963
Also killer first needed to catch you too
And the killer was rewarded for catching the survivor with a hook state, thus progressing their objective of twelve.
And again, if you failed to catch someone for 5 generators and enough time for the exit gate to open, why shouldn't they have the option that's been in the game for 6 and a half years and is ingrained into every killer player's head as a possibility so something that you should plan around. Killer gameplay is as focused on macromanagement and focusing on the whole game as it is micromanagement and focusing on exactly what is happening with each individual survivor.
A minor point - Killers don't have an objective of 12 hook states, they have an objective of 4 kills. 12 hook states is one strategy to accomplish that but not the only one.
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@Regulus47 said:
Deathslinger has a gun. A GUN. That he can shoot people with at the drop of a hat, through the tiniest of holes in any tile, drag them towards him so they make no distance, and get free hits and deep wounds without even having to hit them.
At what point do we as a community need to say "no" to this kind of buff begging? Slinger is fine, squarely above average, he just takes a bit of practice to play. More killers should be around his strength, not less.
If you honestly think that Deathslinger "can shoot people with at the drop of a hat" then you haven't played him since the massive ADS nerf.
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@Vampwire said:
But there are incentives at the moment. The entire meta and most perks have been reworked to where you only get value by spreading pressure and patrolling. It's just camping and tunneling is so easy for a free kill you don't really have to play the game that way. People aren't doing it because they have no other option, they're doing it because its easy and gives free kills. The only times killers do this is when they're trying to grief someone or if they're legitimately inexperience and don't know how to play the game. Sometimes its both.
Currently the only perk that helps with camping is Insidious. Which is, y'know, Insidious. If you expect the killer has it just listen out for their breathing or audio cues.
Still the problem is killers feel like if they get kills, no matter the circumstances, they won in some way. You can camp someone and likely still have enough time to down someone else and camp them to death too. I do agree that we need to punish the tunneling and camping, but we also need to recognize why people are doing this. Which is largely because its a cheap way to feel like you've won. Whether it be over someone else or the entire team. I think this is due to the fear of losing and being bm'd or something like that. No clear win condition means that people are making up their own so they don't feel terrible. And largely wins are associated with the amount of kills.
Sadly, this part of your statement isn't accurate: "The entire meta and most perks have been reworked to where you only get value by spreading pressure and patrolling. " The Devs have worked for the complete opposite result, I'm afraid.
CoH has completely destroyed the Hit & Run strategy - you completely waste your time if you just injure a survivor as they'll be back to full health after an extremely short time in the Boon radius. In particular this is awful for the territorial killers like Trapper & Hag - they have the choice of slowly trudging halfway across the map to kick the Boon Totem then trudge back to their defended/trapped area - and the Boon will be back up before they're halfway back to their zone. Complete game-loss right there. And before the chorus of "But CoH has been nerfed!" let's be honest - the nerfs only reduced the slowest healing time by 2 seconds. Hardly a nerf.
The devs took away the incentive to spread out hooks from BBQ, which was one of the most commonly used perks. I'm honestly baffled as to that choice as it removes the incentive to not tunnel in the early game. Frankly, I expected them to extend things like a further incentive if you got all survivors hooked twice which would have incentivised killers to not tunnel AND to not camp. A win-win you'd think but they did the opposite!
Now with basekit UB coming in there is no longer the pressure for survivors to pick up a slugged team-mate - they'll get back up on their own - yet another reduction in the killer's ability to spread pressure around.
I'm not going to write a novel but just these few examples should serve to show that the Devs are actively choosing to make it harder to spread pressure around, and by stating that the only thing that will raise a killer's MMR is the number of survivors they kill means that tunnelling in particular becomes an even more effective strategy.
I would suggest that you might reconsider your blanket statement about anyone who ever camps or tunnels, it comes across as just biased and ignoring some of the realities that killers face.
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I agree that the zombies AI is - well, it's consistent with them being brainless, I suppose.
Though I do find it interesting how they interact with Discordance! I saw a video demonstrating and it seems that really seems to attract them for some reason.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3215363#Comment_3215363
no, "not playing the game" by literally NOT PICKING PEOPLE UP! that's refusing to play the game, and just unfairly wasting people's time so you can win, now that we have unbreakable, they can't force situations like that, I didn't contradict anything, you just wanted to be lil snobby lol
Since slugging is a viable tactic and they have designed perks specifically for and against it, slugging is most definitely playing the game.
And please stop with the personal attacks.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
more and more I've been realizing just how necessary basekit unbreakable is, this toxic "you guys have to be patient for me to win" a killer as of right now could down all 4 survivors, and without the mori mechanic, just win by waiting. completely removing skill or playing the game. with onryo slugging for a 4k, or a mori kill its just sad that she can force her kill on you, opposed to simply playing the game and making it go faster.
Sorry I'm a little confused by your post - it seems self-contradictory.
You state "a killer as of right now could down all 4 survivors, and without the mori mechanic, just win by waiting completely removing skill or playing the game."
Surely if the killer has downed all 4 survivors that demonstrates that since they managed to take everyone down before anyone could raise up one of the slugged team-mates, that the killer has clearly demonstrated both skill and that they have indeed been playing the game?
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Y'know, on Midwich that might just be possible... :)
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@Lekitzul said:
You will def have to explain to me how standing in front of a hook not moving and waiting to just press a button to snatch someone is "skill".
As for tunneling, how is going directly after a wounded surv right off a hook "skillful"? XD It's also just not fun, like, survs have objectives to and want to get at least SOME bloodpoints. Make it a little back and forth and more fun.
Ahh, you're talking about facecamping - but there are other kinds of camping too! Proxy camping, especially if you're in a 3-gen with a hook nearby/in the middle is a very effective & valid strategy.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213002#Comment_3213002
Multi-level maps have smaller individual levels so they don't necessarily take longer to navigate on average than flat maps. The Game for instance is actually very quick to patrol because it has easy to access stairs and dropdowns across the level.
That 8 second switch time does hurt them though, no doubt.
The Game, yes. RPD? Midwich? The Main House on the corn maps? There are quite a lot of instances that already are rough for the Twins and will be far rougher when a 22s self-raise comes into effect.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206056#Comment_3206056
I’m not disputing Charlotte’s window to get there is smaller, but It doesn’t take 20 seconds to switch to Charlotte and walk across the map even from end to end.
Actually, it's longer.. Remember, it's about 8 seconds from when you hit the switch from Victor to when Charlotte actually starts moving. And don't forget multi-level maps that make things even worse for Twins in particular.
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I've seen QuixoticGreen pull it off on Billy but he's probably in the top 3 Billy players.
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@About8Genjis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210303#Comment_3210303
It is still concerning though. Killer mains would scream as well if it said "61% escape rate" instead.
It's all about causation and what you do with the stats. The main reason why Nurse is so low is cause one is probably going to have a really bad time the first times they play her, which is why her kill rate was the lowest in the stats.
Ofc, 61% COULD say that most survs are just bad, need to "git gud" and are low MMR , but it COULD also mean that the killer role is currently too powerful or dominate in certain areas a little too much.
The devs have stated that around 60% is where they want the kill rate to be.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197755#Comment_3197755
They are designed to counter camping. Counter camping...counter camping...counter camping. So I have your consent then, OrangeBear, that camping is not an intended feature and is abusive? It is very appropriate to call it an exploit if more than two perks have to be designed to work around it. It's the same with gerrymandering in politics. Does that make it okay? No. Should more be done about it? Yes.
By your logic then doing gens is an exploit because there are perks designed to counter gen progress and there are definitely more than two gen regression/blocking perks.
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It's bad enough that BHVR took away the killer's ability to switch to a different killer in the lobby now you want to make it even worse?
Seriously?
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@Sluzzy said:
A stealth killer that teleports all around the map with potential mori doesn't need buffs.
Your expectations are way too high for a killer.
This is hilarious coming from a Nurse main.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207510#Comment_3207510
It's not normal. Otherwise Devs wouldn't create perks and mechanics in game that try to promote other playstyles, or try to promote against it :PPPPPPP
The devs have also created perks like Lightborn against flashlights, Agitation/Iron Grasp against wiggling out, Spirit Fury against pallet stuns, Franklin's against items - the list goes on.
By your logic, none of those are "normal" either.
If you want to talk about mechanics, Twins are absolutely designed to rely on slugging as it's literally impossible for them to use their power otherwise.
Honestly, just let this one go, you have every right to your opinion but your repeated statements as though they are facts are demonstrably wrong.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204098#Comment_3204098
See that's the thing. Slugging is not being taken away, it's just being made less viable, but certain situations where you want to slug, you can still slug. This self pick up suddenly won't turn situations where you want to slug into an automatic loss, since the survivor will still just be lying there for 45 seconds doing nothing. That is just such an exaggeration.
So yeah, if you can down one survivor quickly, and then go for another survivor, you are still punishing them. That survivor will still be lying on the ground for 45 seconds. And you can then get another down on the next survivor. If it does take too much pressure away from killers, BHVR can still change that. Or simply buff killers in a different, healthier way.
But you have to assume that the survivors will be up in 22 seconds - you can't bet on them not having Unbreakable, especially with how powerful this change makes it. Twins, Oni & Sadako in particular are screwed over massively by this change and that needs to be addressed if they actually go ahead with this insanity.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207436#Comment_3207436
What other thousand situations are there?
There is only one I can think of, and that would only become a problem if the devs do finally listen to the community about DS and buff it back to 5 seconds.
Every down while playing Twins, as a simple example. Oni and Sadako also have legit need to slug as well.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207208#Comment_3207208
Not sure why you're surprised that Twins are getting worse and worse, they are a killer that have needed a rework the longest, lol, they were dead before this change too, please.
So you agree that slugging is not a crutch for Twins but a necessity.
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Twins in particular are getting heavily screwed over by this set of changes and need a serious fix.
Additionally, removing the requirement for team-mates to help up a fellow survivor removes a lot of pressure - now there's no need to leave a gen to pick up your team-mate and with Unbreakable they can be up in 22s which is a joke.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202875#Comment_3202875
Being slugged is not the survivor failing. They fail when they die because their objective is to escape. Killers that tend to resort to slugging are failing because they are not getting rid of players, they are still keeping them in the game, at times, keeping them hostage.
slugging is a crutch for killers when they can’t keep up with the survivors, the same way that DH was, the same way that a 4-man hatch escape was.
the changes punish being too greedy as your main objective is hooks/kills.
Slugging is a crutch?
Twins would like a word, please. Slugging is not only inevitable but it's impossible for Twins to avoid unless they never use their power - and with 22s slugs due to unlimited 100% Unbreakable? Congrats, BHVR have successfully destroyed a killer.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202537#Comment_3202537
They're related, if the 45 second time is too short and it gets raised that also raises the time with Unbreakable.
Related yes, but as I stated given how powerful they've made Unbreakable a killer would have to assume that they have it, just like old DH & DS.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202512#Comment_3202512
There is not very much hope in matches any more. Killers have been buffed to where most survivors have no chance at all to win. Solo is unplayable. They are small in that they address only the slugging part, but for the most part survivors will still be losing.
I'm sorry, but I have to ask - where do you get these statements from?
Your position is just completely divorced from reality. How can a Nurse main honestly justify the things you post?
Edited to tone down hyperbole.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200826#Comment_3200826
I think it's really the second bullet point that might need to be monitored. For example, say you down someone under a pallet and there's another survivor nearby. If you don't chase the other survivor they'll get a pallet save so your only option is to slug the dying survivor there, at least for a bit. Now the question becomes, is 45 seconds long enough in that situation that you can drive off the other survivor or down them and still manage to collect a hook state in the process on one of them? If not then the dying survivor will just stand up while you're chasing the other player and you've gotten nothing for your trouble other than increasing that dying survivor's bleed out timer by 45 seconds out of 4 minutes.
The other thing regarding that second point is that while you have someone slugged for pressure, for instance, currently you can do it and know another survivor will eventually have to go revive them. But with this new system if I slug someone for pressure the other survivors who I don't chase can just stay on gens the entire time and know the slugged survivor will just stand back up. So it does lessen the impact of single survivor slugging for pressure a bit. That's not to say it's not still worth doing depending on the scenario, but it is a bit weaker.
It's hard for me to tell the overall impact of all this without trying it out. It's definitely a survivor buff but how much of one in total I'm not sure. 🤷♂️
The question isn't really "is 45 seconds long enough" it's "is 22 seconds long enough" because given how powerful Unbreakable just became you have to assume that most survivors will have it.
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@Sluzzy said:
I hope you are joking. They had to do something, at least a little, to help as survivors were leaving in masses. It would have been good if they rolled back some of the killer buffs but at least base-kit unbreakable is something. Slugging was too strong and boring. Killers are still grossly overpowered even with these very small changes.
"very small changes"?
Seriously?
Even you have to admit that these are big changes.
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@Sluzzy said:
Good. Slugging was overpowered and it was very boring to be slugged for a long time while the killer looked for the 4th person.
Killers that abused slugging will have to play the game now and actually hook people.
If Sluzzy is unequivocally happy about it that pretty much tells you everything you need to know.
Seriously, this just murders one of the most important sources of pressure when you know that there is no longer any need for survivors to pick up a downed team-mate.
What were they thinking?
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@Nazzzak said:
Everyone focusing on basekit Unbreakable and ignoring why it's necessary to go hand in hand with the Finishing Mori option. They won't release the latter without some way of countering the inevitable increase in slugging. IMO they should just scrap the whole thing but I'm willing to see how it all pans out.
Given the broken messes that BHVR have released in the past, on what are you basing your optimism?
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199482#Comment_3199482
Or what? Lol
there is clearly a distinction of what is necessary and what isn’t.
face-camping someone from the minute the match starts when no gens pop, and no survivors are around the hook to justify a face-camp is unnecessary and toxic.
where did I say how others should play? I’m not forcing anyone to play in anyway, but I will certainly complain and advocate against unnecessary toxicity! x)
Once more, in case it might sink in, this is just *your opinion* of what is necessary or not - you assume that everyone agrees with you and that's clearly not the case, judging by the responses to this thread.
So okay, you can delude yourself that you're right and everybody who disagrees with you is wrong or you can accept that you're not the sole arbitrator of what is necessary or not and therefore what is toxic or not (by your personal definition). Entirely up to you.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198351#Comment_3198351
You missed my point.
it is toxic because it is not being done when it’s necessary, it is being done because these killers are boosted and can’t compete otherwise - with BHVR giving these killers even more crutches to execute these behaviours.
players are no longer trying to even learn the powers of the killer because they are still effective as M1 killers when they camp/tunnel from the nerfs survivors received in chase.
I shouldn’t be running into nurse or blight players that are playing them without using their powers at all because it works on their matches prior. Or when they do use it they go flying past me because they SUCK at that killer!!
taking advantage and being excessive when not needed or necessary is toxic, and you’re not going to change my mind tbh
"It is toxic because it is not being done when it's necessary."
Who are you to determine what the killer does is necessary or not? Sorry, you don't get to dictate how others play the game just because you consider yourself the arbitrator of the "rules". Tunnelling out a player from the start is a very effective strategy especially if the killer finds themselves matched against more experienced survivors - if he plays by your rulebook then he's lost from the beginning.
You do you, but you have no right to tell others how to play the game. Get over yourself.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192189#Comment_3192189
It's what most people call it. Playing fair and in a fun way pretty much means no camping and tunneling. I was just assuming everyone knows that.
Yes, I do know that BHVR confirmed that camping and tunneling are legitimate tactics. That's why I also can't really blame people for using those strategies, but rather just the devs for not addressng these strategies enough.
But most people simply refer to not tunneling and camping as playing fair, because the general consensus is that tunneling and camping, are either not fair, or at least not healthy or fun for the game.
So all you are doing here is arguing semantics. Which fair enough, I can understand when people say that "playing fairly" is not perfectly accurate. Playing in a healthy and fun way might be more accurate, but of course, this is the "fun" factor for survivors we are talking about in this case.
But it does not change anything else. It's very clear that camping and tunneling are two of the biggest problems of DBD right now, because no one enjoys going against those strategies, no matter if you call those tactics fair or not. So the question of whether these tactics are fair or not is irrelevant.
And you know what isn't subjective? Queue times.
Again, here you are speaking for "most people". I'd love to see your evidence. Plenty of people consider tunnelling and camping legit and therefore fair - if they were unfair then the devs would state so rather than definitely calling them legit tactics.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190370#Comment_3190370
Well then that's not a smart move. I can maybe see why they wanted kill rates to increase by like 3 or 4%, but 8% seems crazy much.
Queue times clearly speak for this. And something that really shouldn't be ignored. Survivors want just as much of a fair chance to win. And surely this varies between mmr, but the simple fact is that some people feel like they escape way less than they die, and that is not the most fun experience.
I do agree that a 61% kill rate would be much less of a problem if tactics like camping and tunneling weren't effective, and killers got these kill rates by simply playing fairly and in a fun and skillful way. But even then, people want a fair chance at escaping matches as well. And it seems like that is not completely given at the moment. For solo queue at the very least.
This is also why I hope the devs now really look into nerfing camping and tunneling more. That would only nerf the very unfun and cheap strategies of the killers, while still keeping the normal gameplay of killers at the same power level. And it would still drop kill rates a bit, which would be a very good thing. Because again, I do not think BHVR is doing themselves a favor by wanting to have kill rates be at 60%. Not a smart move at all.
See, here's the thing. From your post:
"I do agree that a 61% kill rate would be much less of a problem if tactics like camping and tunneling weren't effective, and killers got these kill rates *by simply playing fairly* and in a fun and skillful way"
Who defines what "playing fairly" is? Camping and tunnelling are confirmed as legit strats by the devs so by definition they're also playing fairly, no? Or does your definition mean "Killer has to go for 12 hooks?" or something else?
"Playing Fairly" sounds pretty subjective to me so you're never going to get agreement on it.
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@Piruluk said:
True killrates above 80%, well have a fun playing survivor, especially solo, so killer mains, can feel very powerful, after a power role meant to have extremely unfair advantage, playing survivor means to be a loser prey for killer to have fun with.
More than 80%? Wow, that's really something - can you please share your data on this? I mean, it's not like you'd just do a wild-a$$ guess to make a hyperbolic point, right?
Right?
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"While the killer buffs were great, without compensation buffs on the survivor side, it's no surprise that kill rates increased too much."
I think the problem is that your personal definition of "increased too much" doesn't match the devs, so I'd prepare for disappointment.
What did you think they should go to? Could you clarify your position - where do you believe the figures should be?
It's an asymmetrical game so the killer needs to have an edge, given that it's 4 vs 1 so I believe that around 60% kill rate is good.
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Doesn't help that they're among the worst maps in the game too - well, except The Game. :)
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Damn, now I want pizza!
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@KerJuice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177227#Comment_3177227
You’re thinking of the definition of offense as in: “a breach of a law or RULE.” That’s objective. It’s fact and can’t be debated or disputed. There is no RULE that says killers can’t tunnel. I am not an advocate for entitled hidden survivors’ rulebook. But at the same time I personally choose to go by it when I play killer, because I do not like how it feels when it’s done to me as survivor. I keep that same energy and don’t get upset at killers for using it, just frustrated with the game’s design.
I’m referring to a second definition of offense as in: “annoyance or resentment brought about by a PERCEIVED insult to or disregard to oneself or one’s standards or principles.” This definition is Subjective. So in other words, players like myself can get offended when being tunneled because we ourselves find that in poor sportsmanship (just an opinion). When we play killer, we don’t tunnel. That’s our principle(s). This is our perception, hence me calling it an “offense.”
I prefaced that last line by acknowledging tunneling is a strat and killers are well in their right to do so. Why would you completely ignore that? You come across as being defensive & one who gatekeeps tunneling. Do you not agree with me that’s it’s a strat and well in the killer’s right to use it?
I didn't ignore what you had said about tunnelling as a strat. Quite frankly, you appeared to be contradicting yourself by stating that tunnelling is a legit strat then calling it an offence. That was the point of my post. When you use a negative statement like "offence" in the less-common meaning of the word it's probably better to clarify that.
By the very dictionary definition that you quoted calling it "his offence of tunnelling" is very clearly using the first definition. The form of your statement followed the definition of the first dictionary meaning IE "breach of a law or rule" - offence is used as a descriptor of his action not a response to it.
Seriously. Re-read what you said in full:
"Maybe that was his only offense of tunneling and he didn’t remember that instance."
Be honest - tell me that it doesn't sound like you're using the first definition not the second. You're not using offence to describe your feelings, you're using offence to describe his actions - there is no mention of you or anyone else in that sentence, no mention of annoyance or resentment, just him and his actions.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177174#Comment_3177174
Refusing to participate in normal gameplay. You catch and down a survivor? You can hook them or (for some stupid reason) slug them for 4 minutes.
But to then return to the slugged survivor when the 4 mins is nearly up and dribble or let them wiggle off just to rat out the last survivor is abusing game mechanics.
Bad enough the killer can bring Hatch offerings, Whispers, No Way Out, Remember Me, use killer powers from Trapper, Hag, Demogorgon, Pyramid Head, et cetra, on top of the RNG spawning both gates close together with a hill or 2nd story balcony between them.
"Refusing to participate in normal gameplay" is against ToS?? And btw, who defines "normal gameplay"?
Please show where "refusing to participate in normal gameplay" is in here? https://deadbydaylightgame.com/terms-use-eula
Or if you were referring to "play the game the right way" again, you're trying to use some personal definition of "the right way" and "normal gameplay". Slugging for the 4k is not illegal! Admittedly there are usually better options but you can't force someone to play the way you want them to.
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@KerJuice said:
Yea, that’s tunneling. I agree, if you want to use that strat, you’re well in that right. But don’t be delusional about it. Maybe that was his only offense of tunneling and he didn’t remember that instance.
"his only offense of tunnelling".
Dude, tunnelling isn't an offence.
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Even the Rift is too embarrassed to mention Self Care....
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@LittleBigSunset said:
All solo queue needs is a base-kit Kindred equivalent and I'd be happy. There's nothing BHVR can do to stop you from getting bad teammates if you happen to get games like that. And if you happen to get games like that a lot, it certainly can feel 'unplayable'. Especially considering the recent all around killer buffs. But that's always been the nature of solo, a roll of the dice as to whether your game goes well or just sucks from the get go.
And more perks need to be revisited and/or buffed. Considering the amount of perks the game has there are still too many that are made redundant when compared to the vastly superior alternatives (eg: Solidarity, Clairvoyance, Buckle Up, I could go on). The perk mid-chapter was a strong start but it should by no means be the end of perk reworks.
Weaker killers also need addon passes and/or balance tweaks so as to encourage a meta shift. I've been getting Weskers and Nurses an awful lot since the chapter and before that Blights and Nurses. It gets awfully boring versing the same stuff over and over. I'd love to verse a variety of killers like Hillbilly and Trickster and Myers and so on but they're too weak to be used at the high end of MMR (or at least that's the impression I'm getting).
And (this is by far the most important one) more Laurie cosmetics please.
Remove the ability to see the Killer's aura and maybe base-kit Kindred would be workable. Still a pretty big buff for survivors.