Bard
Bard
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If their goal is for killers to quit, fine. Let survivors deal with abysmal queue times.
I have limited free time. If DBD doesn't want to improve, I'll just go play League, Dota, or Minecraft.
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Because getting BHVR to make any kind of correct balance decision is like pulling teeth.
It's like there's a faction of devs that really know the game, and then there's one rank 20 survivor main from Reddit who gets equal input on balance decision to all of the competent devs.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859801#Comment_1859801
What about Wraith and trapper
Wraith received no meaningful changes. True invis at extreme distances. Whoop-dee-doo, you can still see him when it matters and his mobility/chases are both pathetic.
Trapper was nerfed. They removed the ability for his traps to high roll, but maintained the ability for survivors to get out on the first try.
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Faceroll.
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Probably an interrupt, like the tonic, and then nothing else.
The gas is inert initially, so it's not like they would get haste from a direct hit.
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@DawnMad said:
Now let me rephrase your post.
Changes to killers:
- Clown is getting a buff to his reload time and a new ability that give him mobility.
- Wraith is finally getting a buff to his invisibility.
- Trappers traps are now more reliable since it's much less likely they will get out straight away.
- Deep Wound change doesn't matter much to be honest.
- Iron Maiden is buffed, Undying is nerfed somewhat (Seriously survivors had to find both totems before and they will have to find both totems now, what are you all so sad about)
Changes to survivors:
- Made buffs to 5 perks that weren't strong before.
- Trapper traps are now more reliable since you don't have a change to be stuck in them for an hour.
- Deep Wound change makes it less likely to die to it before you Snap Out of It.
Maybe it's just the phrasing that's the problem huh?
...nope.
- The Clown change is good.
- The Wraith change is nice, I guess, but he's still complete garbage. You can still see him when he's setting up to go on you, his map mobility is still locked behind add-ons, he's hard countered by multiple common perks, and his chase potential is still trash.
- Trappers traps are not reliable now, they're just worse. They only got rid of the potential for Traps to high-roll; low rolls are still a thing, meaning Trapper got a straight nerf with this change. It's still entirely possible for survivors to vault the Asylum Atrium window into a trap and escape before you can vault after them.
- Iron Maiden is buffed, but still worthless.
- Undying is massively nerfed, meaning the only way killers had a hope of seeing reasonable gen speeds (which already had several weaknesses) is no longer strong. Undying was only "good" when survivors had to cleanse at least three total totems. The new Undying is effectively the worst-case scenario from old Undying set as the only possible outcome for the new version. Also, the aura reading is massively nerfed.
- A few irrelevant changes to survivor perks, just so the devs can say "we did something" when we ask why Keys, DS, Unbreakable, Exhaustion, and all the other bullshit in their arsenal hasn't been adjusted yet.
- A useless change to Deep Wounds that serves no purpose other than to stop people from Dying to a deep wound from Soul Guard while in madness 3.
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New Clown is great.
- He loses ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with this rework. His purple gas functions EXACTLY THE SAME.
- Even if you were to ignore the golden gas and never use it, this new version of Clown would be a vast improvement because his reload is 2 seconds shorter.
- He has map mobility now. It's pretty common for you to end a chase with 1-2 bottles left; not enough to do another chase with. In that case, just throw a path of speed gas in your intended direction, reload, and then run along the path, hasted and with full bottles.
This isn't even getting into the potential of speed gas at loops. Yeah it can backfire, but that only happens if you ######### it up. Use it sparingly, such that they can't loop back into the speed gas before you catch up.
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Kill rate is a bad metric because of how ######### the matchmaking system is.
One bad survivor means you get 4k'd, so the fact you can have an 4/5 players be elite level and the other one be a level 37 Dwight with 30 hours who is also "rank 1" is a major problem.
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@Almo said:
We don't want it triggering on getting downed by an addoned Bear Trap, or going down to Deep Wound, etc. It's better game design if we don't start stacking up a series of exceptions.
Who the ######### goes down to Deep Wounds?
Why do you care about such minor edge cases when the much more important ones (Chainsaws, Ambush, Shred) are obviously going to get hit harder by that decision when they just don't need to be?
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DBD is balanced around a very low skill level.
Because of some other factors...
- No real ranking system
- No real matchmaking system
- Every experienced player who isn't literally paid to play this game will leave due to poor balance
...you end up with the majority of players being complete morons who dead hard into walls and use that to justify its existence.
BHVR balances around terrible players and does everything in their power to cultivate an unskilled playerbase to make that work, because anything else would be "hard".
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Because ######### you, that's why.
BHVR loves to nerf random perks for no reason other than to say "hey, we're doing something!" while they don't do anything about things that, you know, actually matter.
Boy, I sure am glad Franklins got nerfed! So, any news on when you're gonna balance the game such that there are more than two viable killers in matches where everyone knows how to play the game?
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Legion is very, very, very bad, but he's not the worst.
He's pretty good at snowballing and slowing the game, because he keeps people injured constantly.
This isn't enough to make him higher than D tier, but it still puts him above complete dumpster fires like Wraith, Myers, and Clown.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1852305#Comment_1852305
Did you really just call one of the strongest killers in the game "mediocre" lmao?
7th, maybe 8th place.
In a game where only the top two are really viable.
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It's. Fine.
Oni with the add-on goes from being "mediocre" to being "almost good enough".
Still starts the game as a pure M1 killer. Still has a power that's borderline useless at jungle gyms. Still entirely beatable.
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@scenekiller said:
You're all the boring ones for complaining about the same things every other minute. This goes for both sides.
Maybe we'd stop complaining if they fixed the damn game.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
Hoo boy. This post is food for those "Freddy is OP and any moron can play him GG" types.
Freddy isn't OP in the slightest, but it is true that a Bonobo could code an AI in javascript that could play Freddy to red ranks.
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@AskingForHelp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/213231/freddy-is-b-tier-at-best-and-doesnt-need-nerfs
Tbh most killers need nerfs that just fly or teleport across the ALREADY SMALL maps and hit and down people so quickly. It’s a stale experience playing survivor. 5 gens actually is quite a lot to do because teammates are constantly going down and dying.
lul
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They could remove the Hex part and the CD, and it would STILL be completely useless.
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Sloppy is an absolute requirement. It's not even because they use it particularly well, it's because if you don't have it their kit doesn't function at all.
If you down somebody as Victor, but get kicked (because it's TOTALLY FAIR that you can get killed as a punishment for using your power successfully...), you will wake up 3 seconds later in Charlotte, a long way away.
If they have any kind of heal speed increase (Desperate Measures, Botany, We'll Make It, WGLF, Leader on the slug, or even just a Medkit), it is completely impossible for you to get to them before the survivor you downed is healthy again.
With Sloppy, this is still a glaring weakness, but it's at least somewhat feasible that you'll get the grab.
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Whaaaaaaaat?
Aren't you grateful that they're giving you ONE DAY of bonus BP over the course of a month.
Wow, what entitled players.
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Most killers can be played with no add-ons... but you want something that can match a SWF with no bonuses?
Nope. Not gonna happen.
Even with add-ons, that list is basically just Nurse and Spirit.
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If you get an unlucky spawn, you can lose 3 gens for your first chase even if you end it within 30 seconds.
One more gen after that, and one sacrifice, and the other three get to win no matter how badly they ######### up the rest of the game.
Keys are bullshit because they let survivors circumvent their already easy win condition.
If you get a 3 gen, barely holding on but still very much in it, a key means you lose. Why? No reason. What can you do? Nothing, really, just hope they're ######### eniugh to get stomped.
Imagine if in the League/Dota world finals, somebody pulled out something that changed their win condition to "destroy one inhib/rax". That's what we're talking about here.
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If these devs knew what they were doing, both Moris and keys would have been gutted three years ago.
The changes are good. The timing, as well as the fact that the key update still isn't ready is #########.
Also, because this company is more mistake-prone than me after three Run and Cokes, they SOMEHOW made it impossible to kill people with Devour Hope if they're not on death hook
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This is only useful for a hyper coordinated SWF, who really should be able to beat Spirit without too much difficulty regardless.
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A reminder of how much spare time I've had in the last month, and that I'm better than at least 45% of players.
Rank 1 means nothing.
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@zoozoom6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1814417#Comment_1814417
if something as minor as that i would hate to hear what you would think if she made a sound q when she phased and came out of phasing as well as a sever movement penalty before she came out of phasing. ie. what wraith has been for years
... then she's literally a 110% M1 killer.
What you just described is potentially the worst killer to ever exist, even worse than old Freddy.
Please never speak again, I think each word you say causes a 3% increase in brain hemorrhages within our community.
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Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, DS, Unbreakable, and Lithe are all just completely busted. BL is just as good as those if you're on the right maps. Adrenaline and BT are also very strong. Object is overpowered as ######### if you have friends.
In general, killers have nothing on that level. Stridor on Spirit is the only thing that comes close. Aside from that, slot in as much game slow as you can along with BBQ if you want BP.
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The entire point of Spirit is that you don't know where she is.
There was a bug that let you hear her general direction in phase a few patches ago.
It singlehandedly made her terrible.
Being able to see her exact location would make her complete dogshit.
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@Wooden_Enthusiasm said:
Huntress hatchets can down you as can honing stone trapper traps. He's considered a power which is a good thing because if he was a killer he would have perks and I dont think anyone wants to see knock out/nurses calling victor
Why not?
Knock Out wouldn't do anything regardless since Pounce isn't a basic attack, and Victor with Nurse's sounds hilarious.
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@Drywatr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1812497#Comment_1812497
Reuse pallets.. That has a massive cooldown and only works if a killer avoids breaking pallets. At that point it's the killers fault.
Thing is, "not breaking a pallet" is often a good thing, since if you can chase them off the pallet without breaking it you can down them faster.
On a lot of unsafe or semisafe pallets, there's little value after they're dropped, so there's no reason to kick them in chase. If you come in with Any Means, that pallet is once again useful.
It's also somewhat useful in solo play against more casual players, because if you try to lift a safe pallet immediately after dropping it, a lot of killers will just look at you like you're an idiot, expecting a free hit. If you then cancel it at 99, you just bought your time 3 extra seconds AND asserted dominance.
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Why not?
Killers pay for crazy strong chase powers with movement speed.
Why shouldn't survivors have the same standards?
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1812474#Comment_1812474
First of all, Deliverance, Desperate Measures, Flip Flop, Power Struggle, Alert, AMN, Breakdown, Breakout, Dance With Me, For the People, Off the Record, Pharmacy, Poised ARE all garbage,. Seriously, did you sneak Off the Record in there thinking no one would notice?
And for the majority of the actually decent perks you listed. they do not have even remotely the same purpose as the Exhaustion perks, namely, to create distance in a chase. You run them with an Exhaustion perk, not as an alternative.
Exhaustion Perks are fine as is. There's nothing broken about perks being functional.
- Free Kobe, nobody has to come save you
- Reset off of mass injuries in seconds
- Save yourself if the killer slugs you for even a few seconds
- Always know where the killer is, and always know where dead zones are
- Re-use pallets, as if you didn't have enough of them
- Create areas in which it is impossible for you to get hooked
- Render basement hooks impossible.
- Lose scratches, make a play
- Heal somebody to full after they get downed vaulting
- 80 seconds of using Object with ZERO downside
- Heal yourself in 10 seconds and get a massive hoard of medkits
- TEN SECONDS OF NO SCRATCHES, GOOD LUCK TRACKING THAT
A perk doesn't need to be busted to be functional.
As for "not serving the same purpose", that isn't a purpose a perk should serve, not directly anyway. Opening distance is what pallets are for.
A perk that gives you distance "just because", without even requiring you to DO anything, is absurd.
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@Withered8 said:
More exhaustion nerfs? Are the previous ones not good enough because the perks are still useable?
Sure nerf exhaustion perks once you add a downside for using gen regression perks.
The only exhaustion perk nerf i'll ever consider is dh, the rest are fine as they not only are situational but need you to actively do something in a chase to proc them. Learn to play around them. If some has dh don't lunge, learn when they will dh through a pallet and expect you to lunge through so that you are able to just walk through and smack them. Proc sb's, go away and do somethign else and then come back. There are plenty of counters to exhaustion.
No, because those nerfs didn't fix the damn problem.
All they did was make it impossible to use the effect twice in a chase.
They didn't do anything about fixing how insanely broken the actual effects were (except for Balanced Landing, and even then it's still top tier on maps where it's usable), which was the entire problem.
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@Science_Guy said:
Entity forbid some perks AREN'T unusable garbage.
So I guess Bond, Botany, Deliverance, Desperate Measures, Detective's Hunch, Inner Strength, Iron Will, Kindred, Quick and Quiet, Self Care, Soul Guard, Spine Chill, We'll Make it, We're Gonna Live Forever, Deception, Flip Flop + Power Struggle, Alert, Any Means Necessary, Blood Pact, Breakdown, Breakout, Dance With Me, Empaty, Fixated, For THe People, Head On, Hope, Leader, Off The Record, Pharmacy, Poised, Resilience, and Appraisal just don't exist.
Nope.
The ONLY viable perks are DS+Unbreakable, BT, Adrenaline, and Exhaustion perks.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
One side effect is that Dead Hard fails so often it's almost a joke. I don't think killers have any idea how often that perk just flat out does not work.
But sure, I get three free bonus health states mid chase when I'm exhausted on the ground three times a game.
Oh look it's the guy I mentioned earlier, who keeps trying to go for last second Dead Hards at 150 ping, dying because of it, and thinks that means Dead Hard isn't OP.
Well, I gotta keep my promise.
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@Boddy604 said:
You kept referencing Sprint Burst over and over like that's a relevant perk and it kinda invalidates your entire argument.
Just saying
...no?
No it doesn't?
Sprint Burst is tied in popularity for most run exhaustion perk.
The fact there are one or two perks that are more overpowered than it doesn't make it balanced.
...lemme put it in a way you can understand.
GEE YOU'RE SURE REFERENCING SPIRIT A LOT, AS IF SHE'S RELEVANT. DON'T YOU KNOW NURSE IS THE BEST KILLER? WHY WOULD ANYONE PLAY SPIRIT? IT KINDA INVALIDATES YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT.
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Billy.
He's Blight, but without everything that makes Blight fun.
Clunky, cumbersome nightmare.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1812339#Comment_1812339
The issue I have with Sprint Burst is that it makes you too conservative about running, and that leads to inefficient play and objectives not getting done quickly. You should not be slowly walking around when you know the killer isn't in the area, you should be hustling to the next gen. And if you're following my advice, this makes Sprint Burst an unreliable perk, because it sometimes won't be up when you really need it. When it IS up, it's awesome and creates a ton of distance, but it just enforces bad play in other areas if you want to have any consistent say in when you use it.
And while I am on the subject of exhaustion perks, Balanced Landing can be super-powerful on street maps like Haddonfield and Springwood, and multi-floor maps like Gideon and Hawkins. But it tends to require a little too much planning and restricts you to a narrow area to really leverage its power on many maps.
Then don't be conservative with it.
Don't be stupid, don't burn Sprint Burst to cover 3 meters to a gen you spawned next to, but by all means use it.
40 seconds is basically nothing. It will usually be up when you need it.
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Ah yes, don't you just love fighting survivor teams who think they're the ######### because they can escape while literally running 16 extra lives?
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Run Sprint Burst and hold W.
It doesn't matter if the killer is better than you, there's no way to outplay somebody Sprint Bursting to a safe pallet as an M1 killer.
Just sit back and let the bullshit carry you.
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@Voldemort said:
Some of the perks you put on low tiers are mandatory in competitive xD
Camaraderie is only useful in a setting where you know the killer is going to try to camp/tunnel somebody out of the game, and running DS on all four people is banned.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
The EGC is already doing what it's supposed to do.
It removed those awful hatch standoffs and survivor keeping the game hostage after completing all the generators.
Exit gate spawns are fine too.You already had the chance to escape with your teammates but failed.Then you had the chance to find the hatch but failed again.It's only fair if your third and last chance to escape is the hardest one
Thing is... it isn't really hard.
It's just a death sentence if the map generation is unlucky.
I don't really care if the survivor lives or dies at that point, I just don't think it should stretch on for two and a half minutes.
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No, but if they're too close it's very difficult to actually attack before they're behind you.
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@lagosta said:
Unbreakable A tier? it single handily change outcome of matches.
Also OoO S+? OoO is only S+ in a SWF or against freddy. In any other case it's nowhere near as effective.
Self care is the best killer perk in the game. It doesn't deserve A tier, it's just a trap for new players.
Stridor is too conditional to be good, it's certainly S+ on spirit, but doesn't make the cut for anyone else.
BBQ deserves a much higher spot too. It's consistent on almost every single killer, even on PH that doesn't get full benefit.
Unbreakable is good, but it's fairly balanced on its own since it's just anti-slugging. It's broken when paired with DS, but DS is definitely the thing making that combo broken.
OoO is S+ and is only held back by bad players not knowing how to use it.
Self Care is genuinely quite good IF you use it well. If you're running the perk by itself self caring against a Legion, or you're getting caught Self Caring by a Sloppy+Nurse's Ghostface, yeah it's trash.
For Stridor, fair enough, but I just kinda felt like I needed to recognize the bullshit that is Stridor Spirit.
BBQ is good, yeah, but it's not run because it's OP or synergizes amazingly with every killer. It's run because leveling a character without BBQ equipped is the most painful ######### in the game. If survivors had a perk that gave them this much BP for this little effort, they'd run it every game too (there's WGLF, but that multiplies a smaller amount of points and you have to go out of your way to stack it).
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There are certainly more guys than gals, but there are a few female killer players on Twitch.
- Umbra: High skill killer, Huntress main, frequent stream
- Malika: mostly survivor, but not only survivor; used to be a Spirit main. Streams are infrequent, but when they happen she's entertaining and good at the game.
- DieHardDiva: survivor/killer split. Frequent streams. Average skill at the game, but very entertaining.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Calling Stridor S+ tier because of a single killer is more about the killer, not the perk itself. I'd place it D/C with a note saying it's S+ tier on that specific killer. Otherwise, Distressing is an A-tier perk because of the Doctor.
Prove Thyself is better than C. Yes, grouping is generally bad, but it allows you to quickly pop that first gen while the killer is at their weakest and is very useful when trying to clutch that last gen. Both events are things that can make or break games, so I disagree with calling it a C. Maybe a low B.
Unbreakable should be S or S+. Especially with DS, you're basically playing god-mode.
Spine Chill should be S. I mean... what other perks can completely counter an entire family of killers (stealth killers in this case)?
Undying being beneath Stridor does... it doesn't look right.
Dying Light I would say is... honestly F tier. Sure, it does SOMETHING to help... when you're already winning. At the start? It actually helps the survivors, robs you of info by creating an obsession, and instantly goes away the moment the obsession is out of the game.
Furtive Chase is similar in that it has the potential to actively harm you. It lowers your TR... in a chase. All that does is prevent you from capitalizing on perks like Infectious Fright. It creates an obsession, robbing you of info, AND encourages you to constantly switch your targets by changing the obsession which is very harmful to your killer efficiency—you want to focus on 2 survivors, otherwise, you're giving them too many chances.
Deja Vu actually is a lot better than people give it credit for. Knowing where a 3-gen is and getting rid of it will make the killer's life a lot harder. I wouldn't call it amazing, but it's at least decent.
As a killer main, the fact Whispers isn't S-tier is absolutely rage-inducing...
I would say Whispers is one of the strongest perks that doesn't need a nerf. Either at the top of A-tier or near it.
It's amazing in the early game and in post-hatch game scenarios, but it falls off a lot in the in-between, since it seldom deactivates once you're at a point where you're hooking people.
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@53nation said:
Gonna have to respectfully disagree that Leader, Poised, Hope, and Pharmacy are better than Prove thyself.
Prove Thyself eliminates the inefficiency penalty from grouping.
Unfortunately, unless we're talking about The Twins, grouping is still bad. Unless you're against Twins, you're better off having two people on different gens than you are having two people on one gen with Prove Thyself.
As for the others...
- Leader amps the heal speed of everyone around you, meaning you can get done with a heal party and split up hella quick.
- Hope means that in the endgame, a 115% killer only catches up to you slightly faster than a tier 1 Myers, so you're not gonna get caught.
- Poised means that if you last long enough in chase for a gen to get done, you can easily escape that chase (10 damn seconds of no scratches)
- Pharmacy is a more limited, but more time-efficient version of Self Care
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@bjorksnas said:
undying is better than the perks it protects? weird
Ruin is strong.
Undying lets your Ruin last 2-3x longer, so I assign it the power of 1-2 Ruin's.
Also, random tracking.
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@BattleCast said:
Up The Ante is bad, but I don't see how it could be detrimental, therefore I would rank it as D.
Up The Ante applies to your teammates.
Your terrible, TERRIBLE teammates.
If one of those dumbasses sees a 9% extra chance of unhooking themselves, they might be dumb enough to actually try it, putting themselves in stage 2 and losing you the game.
If one person is running it with solo survivors, it can be detrimental.
If you're stacking it in a SWF with Slippery Meat, it can be good.