Maybe I'm wrong, but is this update survivor side?
Changes to killers:
- The change to the Clown is fine, although new players can increase the speed of survivors by misusing it (even simply without being a new player, not knowing how to use that "Antidote" well).
- The change to the Wraith seems kind of sad to me, I thought we would have true invisibility all the time.
- Changing the Trapper works for the first few attempts (for Trappers who were unlucky), but with more attempts it is worse for Trappers who were lucky and forced survivors to make many attempts.
- Deep Wound is still stupid, even if the time is shortened, there are still too many ways to stop the counter.
- A "buff" to Iron Maiden that I doubt makes it a good perk.
- Destroyed the combo of Undying and Ruin. Maybe now that it saves tokens it works with other perks, but it only keeps the totem once when you break it (like when they now break Undying first).
Changes to survivors:
- Buffed 5 perks. Only buffs, not changes like Undying. Pure buffs.
- No nerfs to DS / Unbreakable (almost the equivalent of Undying / Ruin).
TL;DR: Killers have one less perk combo, a buff to a useless perk, and killer changes that don't seem like buffs to me.
Survivors have 5 new perk buffs to make new combos with and are freed from the "Undying / Ruin" combo.
And we still haven't changes to the keys 😂
Comments
yup this game is bs
The only killer buffs were Iron Maiden's Exposed status effect duration and Wraith's new complete invisibility. The Clown changes are undecided due to no one knowing how the Tonics will interact with each other.
Now let me rephrase your post.
Changes to killers:
Changes to survivors:
Maybe it's just the phrasing that's the problem huh?
Hard to say. Yes more survivor perks buffed and Undying nerfed. But Clown should be stronger, Wraith buffed a bit. Iron Maiden buffed should be a good perk on Doctor now. It's not a very clear win for anyone here I think.
Trapper change is neither a buff or nerf as I see it.
SWF exists, the entire game is survivor sided... but its balanced around the few solo survivors that don´t play the actual solo role.
For a lot of this stuff we need to see the numbers 1st.
It's not a bad trapper change by any means.
However it is like....one small bandaid and makes me feel they are ignoring all the other; even larger problems. There is no killer in the game with as many (Pointless) weaknesses as trapper.
Imagine if like, just having a medkit in your hands made you not leave blood orbs for oni even when injured, imagine if "Luck" offerings made Gunslinger's gun misfire like a third of the time, imagine if a map revealed every demo portal on the map hidden or not to every survivor and let you destroy them even if he had not yet used them.
THAT is the level of BS weaknesses that trapper has to deal with on his character. Things that just, negate his kit, often exclusively like with luck.
They just nerf/buff for middle ranks.
undying is strong at middle/low ranks but just good at high ranks. Probably 50% of my red rank matches undying is the first hex destroyed. And 3/4 matches all were gone within 3 minutes.
The devs just continue to show their incompetence and understanding of the game and community.
Hey devs... you have a PTS USE IT STOP PLAYING SO SAFE WITH CHANGES!!!! Jesus.
Buff perks to almost op status and then go from there in the test server... TEST changes. Dont just make soft safe changes to some and throw them on ptb and still not touch anything after
Exactly what has changed in your "rephrase"?
I still don't understand. What have you earned with your "rephrase"?
This game Is survivor sided. This is the way
Not really. I feel like this is a really nicely balanced update. Killers and survivors both got nice quality of life updates.
The Wraith's true invisibility is an awesome addition. Not as much as I'd have liked for him. But still a step in the right direction.
Clown getting a second kind of bottles is potentially a huge buff for him. I'm really excited to see what can be done with those bottles.
Gideon looks much brighter now. Which I feel is a buff for both sides.
I think they handled the Undying change fantastically. I don't think it's nerfed at all. Arguably it's a buff.
All the survivor perks they buffed were never used because they were so bad. Except for Open Handed I still think they won't be used. But they feel less bad at least.
Yes you are correct in being wrong, it was mostly killer buffs/fixes...
...nope.
This reply is for you too I guess, saw your post while writing it.
The changes to the wraith, clown, Iron Maiden, are long overdue... I mean, shouldn't they just be considered fixes? The clown's the same, but with 3 sec load times which should be pretty big. Antidote is going to be high risk/reward, gotta wait for testing like others have said. Could be good if antidote boosts movement speed multiplicatively, as it will impact the killer's speed more. Either way, I'm glad they didn't make the antidote's necessary.
Most of the survivor changes are positive, and seem like pretty big buffs to me. Going against survivors with Iron Will + Fixated will be rough. If the animation changes don't make it easier to catch survivor mistakes when squatting, then I foresee hardship ahead. There are going to be three different speeds to anticipate survivor distance when looking for a survivor that's disappeared, and there are no scratch marks.
These Deep Wound changes dont change the fact that survivors can just run in circles to prevent Deep Wound from being a consequence. They could have increased time to mend, too... something, anything. They're just throwing us a bone.
Overall though, I say yes it's survivor sided, but what's new? It's like survivors are designing the game and it still feels bad to be a killer main.
Why do you get into this discussion if you haven't even read the Developer Update that the developers have made?
I can't see how people can call the changes to Wraith and Trapper "buffs". They are adjustments that won't affect the outcome of a match in the slightest. In other words: they are not even worth being mentioned. Changes to Survivor perks are neither. The reworked perks will be used for meme builds at best. Changes to Clown? Still have to wait for the outcome, but he's one of the many killers, that I don't even wanna touch for a daily. The more and more Killers, Survivors and Perks are added to the game, the more afraid the devs seem to be of shaking up the meta. Every new chapter nowadays is more like: okay another mediocre killer with ridicoulos restrictions and trash perks (except for Blighty Boi, he was a rare exception).
It's so blatantly obvious that BHVR wants survivors to be the power role in this game lmao. All these killer nerfs and not a single nerf to keys or DS or anything. They dont even bother to hide it. guess who makes them the most money? 4 swf buying a skin is obviously more profits than 1 killer buying a skin. Gotta keep your cash cows happy. I say this as a 50/50 player
Shhh... It's a fine and well-done patch, remember Killers are just AI.
At this point, I'm just taking the piss today.
Overall it is a killer buff patch. They simply made Undying a little bit more fair.
They just buffed a bunch of useless perks to make them very slightly less useless, killed undying, buffed clown and thats about it.
Bhvr: Makes Undying not ridiculously OP vs solo survivors.
Killer only players: OMG survivor sided, even though we're getting big buffs to Clown, as well as some nice minor ones to Trapper, Legion AND Wraith, who we want to be buffed!
Bruh.
If we're being honest here, and let's be honest about being honest: we're honestly not honestly being honest about being honest, the Survivor Perk buffs were "Eh, okay". They are not bad at all, but it's not like they will replace the second chance meta or anything. They are good buffs so that when someone says "Boy oh boy, it would be nice to not play this game in a bathtub so I don't drown the rest of my house in sweat", they have more viable options to pair up with their choices of pants that won't get stained by gamer-induced-perspiration.
Yes, please do pretend that the Clown change isn't a huge buff or that the Wraith change isn't a decent buff. Please pretend that Undying/Devour Hope isn't a huge buff. And let's not forget the map reworks, all of which have buffed killers in the past by removing obnoxious loops and/or pallet-heavy areas.
The buffs seem okay, though I'm iffy on them to a degree. I don't think Clowns interactions will change much, as his core playstyle will still be completely intact, so for most Survivors, they won't see a difference. The most I see it doing is making Clown able to answer "ring ring EXPLOSIONS It's for you" notifications when they happen across the map. They might also be used to negate some of the distance gained from Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Balanced Landing, which I can see becoming a big issue for some players. We won't know until PTB if that's a thing, though.
Wraith being invisible across the map? Cool! Kinda visible when mid-range? Hmmm. The point of Wraiths ability is to allow Wraith to set up their angle of attack while the Survivors are none the wiser, though we can all pretty much vouch for this being a not-thing. A thing that is not. You know what I mean. With the new system, I'm not entirely convinced that it will become a thing. Or stay a not-thing. Also, making Wraiths speed add-on (Windstorm) basekit would still be a good change, if not better than invisibility.
The Trapper change is a bit of a bandaid on a missing limb. Is it better than nothing? Yes. Are there a gorillion other changes that could be made that would preserve Trappers playstyle while benefitting Trapper more? Absolutely. Again, it's not a bad thing, and one could argue some kind of "trickle down economics" series of buffs for Trapper, but I wouldn't dare to accuse anyone of being Reagan. While reliability with the traps is nice, I don't think it's going to dent Trappers issues. Top level Trappers might notice a difference, but they will still also notice the myriad of issues that will continue to plague the Killer.
It would seem that way and it’s twice in a row i just hope it doesn’t end up being unbalanced again after the game was becoming more balanced
It's funny how I need to repeat this even though I put it in the first comment, but people just want to look smart 😂
So has the last update basically released 1 meh killer perk and 3 semi gimmick survivor perks not mention not many people like the twins
The wraith buff if meh Ngl often there is an object in the way so it's not like you could of seen him coming away
No one denied that clown buff is nothing wraith buff is minuscule because there's often objects in the way so you wouldn't see him anyway
Undying was more of a bad trade it can save a hex once but can keep tokens and they are changing the maps to be more fair every killer hates ormond (wonder why)
Almost like they created loops way too strong (ontop of rng) and are toning them down
"Big buffs to Clown"
Yikes
The Clown buff is a huge gameplay change that adds and entirely new dynamic to DbD, the Wraith buff makes his power actually consistent, the Undying nerf was a long time coming but was also a massive buff because of Devour Hope, and Ormond is now one of the most killer-sided maps in the game because nearly every single loop got completely decimated. There's nothing left but a small number of very spread out maze tiles and that one god pallet on the second floor.
A few garbage killers being buffed to be slightly less garbage doesn’t make up for the fact that gen control perks in general are now terrible. Corrupt pop has been nerfed, ruin undying gutted.
You may as well just run like 3 chase perks, NOED, and tunnel people because there’s no way you are stopping gens from getting done.
Which is probably what the devs want because survivors could not handle getting stomped so hard no gens got done even though they played poorly and probably had like 12+ second chance perks in a game where the gens can be done in 4 minutes.
And it won't be the last one either.
Yup. This will help survivor queue times!
/s
Technically the Open-handed was a shadow nerf to non meta builds SWFs (you know the ones that don't always have at least 1 ds 1 unbreakable 2 borrowed time ect). Before you could stack open handed in a 4 man swf with bond and see all survivors within 68 meters range. Now it doesn't stack so the max you can get is 16 meters (making the bond SWF 52m instead although opens three perk slots I guess) or worse the kindred open handed SWF that could see the killer up to 48 meters away from the hook when someone is hooked, that is more than the default bond radius now which is only 32 meters...
Having said that open handed is still the WORST PERK IN THE GAME (killer and survivor perks included), I believe other than vigil it is the only other perk in the game that requires another perk to use it. That means if you take open handed and none of your teammates have an aura reading perk it is literally useless. Making it only good (I say good in the loosest terms here) for SWF or paired with other perks as a solo (and then there are so many better solo survivor perks than one that needs 2 perk slots to actually do anything.
I am pretty happy with the changes although. Having said that I do main Hag so I never used tinkerer/undying/ruin (I use Corrupt, Pop, STBFL, Monitor or swap out Monitor to Franklin's if there is a beamer.) It is a MASSIVE buff to Devour Hope and I expect to see that become meta, when you have to find two totems with exposed. If survivors are not looking for totems they are likely to gen rush at high ranks giving you enough time to get your 3 stacks and the time it takes to find one lit totem you can get another stack and patrol the last totem for an easy win. Especially if you pair this with BBQ on a killer with mobility (a massive buff to Freddy in my mind, I can see forever Freddie's using Pop, BBQ, Undying & Devour for easy 4ks) before undying/DH was useless, now it is OP (even more then undying ruin on high mobility killers) I might even swap to it on hag for some ez 4ks.
I guess some people just want easy wins.
Looks at behaviors patch history overall. Wait this game has a huge survivor bias
Behavior pulls out nerf gun always has been.
No news on keys, no news on ds, no survivor nerf at all of recently but killers have eaten 3 hard nerf over the last few patches one of which awas a prolonged buggy patch that broke half of the rooster.
Pop nerf
Mori nerf
Undying nerf.
These were deserved but again wheres the damn ds nerfs and key nerfs these have been a problem far longer and they have chosen to exaspeate the issues with soul guard and the recent offering changes. Poor show.
A tiny ass speed boost you have to time perfectly to avoid Survivors getting the benefit of while needing to remember to change bottle types to go back to dealing with Survivors..... this is a "big buff" to you?
Bruh.
I agree killers have taken a beating, DS was reworked once already and I feel it needs to be reworked again, I have put forward suggestions for a DS nerf and I feel it should be made into a true anti-tunnel perk. If you are downed off hook it stays active until you are picked up (and you can stun the killer) or another survivor picks you up and deactivates when another survivor is hooked. If you touch a gen it deactivates and if you get in a locker it deactivates after 8 seconds (meaning you can still use inner strength if you are being chased to try and heal) This means that killers can no longer tunnel but you don't get 60 seconds of invincibility including if a killer hooks someone else then you go and farm to get the DS stun off.
Survivors have also taken a load of nerfs, hit validation is very killer sided, the amount of window hits I get from lunge attacking when the survivor is already basically through the window, or lunges through pallets where I get stunned but I still get the hit on the survivor. Not to mention the survivor heal nerfs. Not to mention balanced landing, exhaustion changes, double pallet removal and infinites. Killers complained about double pallets so bloodlust was put into the game, then when they were removed and so were infinites bloodlust "should" have been removed but it wasn't and when the Devs tested it the killer mains complained to no end. From my experience playing since early 2017 it goes in cycles were a bout of survivor nerfs happen, then a bout of killer nerfs happen then it goes back to survivor nerfs. Moris needed a nerf, keys need a rework (perhaps only let one survivor escape and only if they have met certain requirements) or perhaps keys can only be used to reopen the hatch after it has been closed.
The sad thing is the game will never truly be balanced. in my opinion I believe that solo survivors need to be buffed to SWF level so that killers can then be buffed without the excuse of (like the ruin/undying nerf will be justified with) it is hard to counter as a solo queuer. The new HUD is a huge step for solo q. I hope they implement a totem counter (even if it is built into a perk maybe add it to kindered seeing as it is taken by most solo survivors anyway. I want killers to be buffed especially piggy (I switched to hag after the surveillence nerf) but I fear that won't happen until solo q are on a near equal footing to SWF, I also hope that the buffs to solo survivors only give information that is already known to SWF so do not unintentionally buff them too.
It's not entirely survivor sided, but it mostly is. It makes last patch's rebalancing look god tier.
Nah, it's a pretty even update.
-Clown gets some minor buffs to give him a little more map presence. I think Clown is one of the hardest killers to change. Adding a new type of gas makes sense. Not much they could do with him without giving him an ENTIRE makeover.
-Wraith gets a minor buff that makes it impossible to see him at a certain range. They can't extend it too much, because that makes camping wraith WAY too powerful. And that's not a fun playstyle to play against.
-Trapper is less RNG-reliant. And yes, the trade-off is that there's a limit to how many attempts a survivor has to make to get free. But most Trapper players will agree its' a bit silly a survivor can be stuck in a trap for 14 tries. If anything, it'll make him a lot more consistent. And consistent killers are easier to balance while inconsistent killers (Pig, Trapper) are harder because you have the outliers on both sides. Trappers who have survivors always escape on the first attempt vs Trappers who have survivors who take forever to escape and Pigs who have survivors get their RBT"s off at the first box, and Pigs who have survivors who have at least one survivor take all four boxes, and potentially die to the RBT. In the long run it'll be VERY worth it for Trapper Players.
-Undying gets a much needed Nerf. And in turn got a buff to make it viable with other hex perks like Devour Hope and Huntress Lullaby. Devour Hope + Undying is actually something worth running now. And Ruin + Undying is less of an insta-win for killers who can properly end a chase and who don't have the absolute worst luck.
-Some survivor perks got some much-needed buffs. None of them particularly game-changing. But those perks will at least be more useful (or at least less useless)
-Iron Maiden got a nice buff.
Killer Mains will of course come in and scream bloody Murder. "What about DS/Unbreakable!" I agree that needs fixed. The combo should be strong, but not as strong as it is. I'm sure the Devs are trying to figure it out without making the combination useless. They probably just haven't come up with a solution for it yet. And it's probably not quite the priority. Ruin/Undying probably had more of an effect on games than DS/Unbreakable (Particularly since killers usually gun for those survivors harder, even throwing the game to get survivors who run the combo) "What about Keys?" I'm guessing Keys will get a stealth update like Mori's did so that you don't see a key every game until they release the update. Keys are also very complex to change. Just getting rid of them would be easy, but there's challenges that require keys. "OoO?" Same with DS/unbreakable, honestly. It's probably lower priority because OoO users don't have an escape rate that's outside the norm. The devs probably understand it's not fun to play against, but from a pure game design perspective, the perk isn't skewing the escape rate for users that run it. And then there's the fact that when you change OoO you also have to change Sole Survivor. Because THAT perk is useless even with OoO. Remove OoO, and it becomes even more worthless. And OoO is only really broken when run by survivor teams with comms. That is not an easy fix by any means.
I think the most egregious and obvious sign of survivor bias is the Trapper change. Are we to believe that the most pressing issue facing Trapper is how it feels for survivors to occasionally have to try more then 4 ######### times to escape. People being stuck in traps too long was not a ######### problem on literally one of the weakest killers in the game.
Maybe you guys could look at the having 1 trap capacity at base. Or having to walk around the entire map to collect your goddamn power. Or that said power has the MOST counters bar none in the game: Saboteur, Small Game, OoO, Map w/ Red Twine, Rainbow Maps, toolboxes, map offerings to indoor maps, deadhard, being able to just disarm them...
Or maybe the ######### jaws addons. All of them are worthless. I dare you to argue otherwise.
Yeah what Trapper needed was to feel less frustrating to survivors in an extremely uncommon scenario.
So.. Undying didn't get nerfed, if anything it just got a lot stronger. Instead of Ruin/Undying, it'll be Haunted Ground/Undying or Huntress Lullaby/Undying.
The survivor buffs were hardly buffs; they turned worthless perks into "somewhat" useful perks.
These a lot of issues here so let me break down how these statements make no sense. Firstly suggested ds changes dosent account for gen tapping which can bypass hold for 8 seconds rule. Secondly making it worl with inner strength is a free health state which is just moving the problem to an extra helath state. Thirdly getting off the hook and getting downed still means you can unbreakable back up. Ds needs a flat reduction on seconds 45 seconds same as pop.
Then we have the survivor nerfs of these only balanced landing is accurate. As hit validation coming from a pc connection with 54 ping on average. My hits do not go through windows unless they are mid animation or are hugging the windows edge. Then there hit thrpugh pallets which again dosent happen unless the survivor is. 5 second off my lunge hitting them. Its console and connections that need to be checked here. The key idea is terrible as your not addressign the core of the issie which is your escaping before you complete you main objective. Keys hatch needs to spawn at no gens left or one survivor remaing no excepetions same as moris only worling on the final hook state.
Let talk bloodlust here. Why the hell should you take bloodlust out of the game when killers like huntress and slinger can get stuck on highly unfavourable maps like haddonfield and the labratory. There are still many uber powerful god loops on these reworked maps look at the building window on suffocation pit, disturbed ward (casting doubht on properly fixing the middle) or badham indoor areas. Infinites might not exist but you could bring them back by removing bloodlust in some of these regions or at the very least entity will block all the windows after a lengthy chase.
In conclusion when is the last time survivor got nerfed in a menaingful way. All of these changes of recent memory were killer changes many of which were needed but the tactless lack of recognition for hitting both sides espicially after the twins patch is pathetic.
You want to be a strong solo queue player you run kindred and at most your down one perk to get some margin of swf level of co ordination. Finally lets talk swf why the hell arent we just hitting swf with a heal and repair speed debuff that increase with the nunber of premades within the group only affecting the group instead of trying to raise solo queue players to 4 gens 2:30 mins speed.
Survivor does need new mechanics a lot of its frustration as a role is its lack of options outside of perks. Wjeres the glyphs? Why is there little to no tools for manipylate killer tracking outside of perks. Why not have new items like noisemakers or snares. This tunneling camping nonesense would bother half as much people if they actually had options and a more robust kit. Stacking seconds chances on a survivor isnt healthy and evertyhing that gives a health state needs a go over to implement and open the path for a more interesting survivor role.
I´m sorry but "much less likely" is a very strong overstatement, the change really benefits Survivors more than the Trapper. There´s still a very good chance they get out in 1-2 attempts but the max they will be stuck is now 10 seconds.
It's definitely a survivor sided update, if for nothing else than Undying getting nerfed. That is the only real important update in this patch.
The buff to iron maiden isn't useless though. That makes it pretty strong. 30 seconds is a long time in this game.
The chance to get out in the 1st or 2nd attempt currently is 43.75% while in the new patch it will be 30.55%. If we look at 1st attempt only it's 25% now and it will be 16.6% after. It is a consistency buff.
Yes, the odds of a 1st or 2nd attempt are ever so slightly lessened, but the outliers on the other side on the spectrum were hit much harder, making it a net gain for Survivors.
It also won´t help in the countless times where they will still escape in 1 or 2 attempts. In the end, it changes barely anything on the Trappers side. You have to guess if it´s worth to beeline to the trapped Survivor, you have to be very close to it and still hope they don´t get out quickly or be saved in 1,5 seconds. As Survivor, you now can´t be stuck any longer than 10 seconds.
LOL - The change to IRON MAIDEN absolutely makes it a better/good perk - especially on Doctor, Plague, and Clown.