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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636568#Comment_3636568
This. The vast majority of my solo queue failures don't come down to minor episodes of miscommunication. It comes down to other survivors being absolute dimwits, and no amount of communication tools can fix that. It's usually survivors giving up early-mid game, or survivors bombing the hook and giving the killer a slug pile.
There are things that would improve solo queue, but not drastically. They should still be sought after, but there's no magic bullet.
Gens and roaming the map while the Killer is elsewhere might seem dull, but the TR and the looming uncertainty of where the Killer is can keep you on alert, and your own navigation and interaction with the Trial keeps you focused.
However, when an individual survivor is losing: Sitting on hook repeatedly, holding recover while bleeding out. There is no uncertainty as you watch the Auras of all your allied survivors and have only critique available as entertainment. You have little interaction with the Trial, the only agency you have is Killing yourself on Hook, and even if you want to try you may just be killed early anyway.
In SWF this can be mitigated with the understanding that you're with friends, whom you can chat with and have a bond. But solo, you just get annoyance.
Though, even if you're killed as a Survivor, if you have a decent amount of chase time and have done other objectives, yeah it can sting a smidge, it's offset by all the other gameplay you had fun with.
SoloQ's problem is a lack of entertainment when losing hard. It's no longer DBD, the survival horror game. It's waiting/watching sim.
However, I think the primary concern with regards to overall player retention likely has to do with a lack of core gameplay shakeup(s).
So I'm glad they're trying new gamemodes.
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Shape-shifting is what it is known for. As well as being right under your nose, and with no trust with those around you being what they say they are.
The problem with simply being a re-skinned Wraith that can transition between forms, is that communication does exist. So Survivors can callout who they are, and they won't be wrong. That is indeed a blocker.
I could see this being addressed by making the Transformation aspect of the Power not only about Transforming into a Survivor, but also transposing with another Survivor: When Transforming the Thing can swap places with any Survivor at any time. Becoming a mobility and a disruption tool whose utilization of Survivors as a Vector makes survivors who group together a danger to one another.
However, it would need to be limited in such a way as to prevent The Thing from Transforming on a Survivor that just Unhooked a Survivor, the Unhooked Survivor, and to a lesser extent when there is only one Survivor left. And the design of how the Transposed survivors would need to be approached with care.
Though another issue is that while in the movie being alone makes you easier to pick off, in DBD it makes survivors more efficient, and that lack of trust will turn into players opting to distance from one another as much as possible.
That would need to be addressed in some manner. By making sticking together beneficial in some degree while not curbing the Transformation transposition too much.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633348#Comment_3633348
Information do nothing against good survivors when you have 32m of TR, no stealth, no mobility and weak chase. Also voice comms completely deny even this. So, yeah, you can punish being injured on some best killers, but even on best killers there is no possible punishment for staying injured on gens across whole map with 4 Adrens.
I completely agree about last paragraph. We need to shift our focus from kills to the number of hooks, maybe. Or maybe they'll come up with an even more interesting concept.
Information lets you chew through map resources (pallets) faster by engaging in more chases creating deadzones more quickly to make up for a lack of mobility/chase. I never said anything about being Injured, but stealth play also lets survivors stay uninjured even longer before they get injured in the first place, exacerbating your issue of a lack of punishment when Injured.
And yeah, I do hope they add an additional "checkpoint" system for Killer, tying it with Hook states might make spreading Hooks more lucrative, but something that is more general that takes into account Injured Survivors/Pallet stuns/ and Hook states might give rise to more alternate playstyles.
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Don't actively defend hook. It pushes survivors back towards gens and actively utilizing the Hook timer wasting your time as you run back and forth to hook. The sooner a Survivor gets off of hook is that much sooner they can be sacrificed or their rescuer pulled from gens.
Sitting around one gen just gives survivors more breathing room on other gens as you're not pushing them off.
What you mean you can't chase too fast?
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If we're talking about optimal play, yes, Survivors have been "punished" for "forcing their objectives", albeit through an influx of information Perks for Killer.
If Survivors want to maximize their time efficiency, they want to be in as few chases for as long as possible, while being on generators for as long as possible. To do that, play stealthily to limit a Killer to surveying your area for longer, which gives other survivors more time on other generators, and increases the time chase resources remain. Only once in chase, go hard with it.
Boring AF for Killer when done well and why I'm glad so many Aura/scream perks have been added over time. Also most players seem to find stealth play-style somewhat boring and actively seek chases.
I do find it interesting how most people seem to view Killing a survivor as goalpost and not an individual Hook. Goes to show that Killer is lacking in PvE "checkpoints" like survivors have with Generators.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632382#Comment_3632382
make losing via hook spreading feel like winning
I have felt like winning whenever I got 4 stacks of BBQ...
Yes.
Why make that route explicitly only for BP and not for the "Core match conclusion"?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632300#Comment_3632300
You can't fix that. If you want to fix tunneling, you can focus only on majority of people.
Unless you want to nerf the hell out of it, so noone can even do it. That would fix it for competitive killers, because they will not be able to do it. It's going to piss off most killers in dbd tho.
Don't the majority of people turn to tunneling when they feel like they're losing? Isn't your solution trying to make losing via hook spreading feel like winning through adjacent rewards? Why sidestep the root issue?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632252#Comment_3632252
not really, I think that should be reason to hook multiple survivors even for people without empathy.
Excluding a competitive reason?
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@saym said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631218#Comment_3631218
>> A big part of the reason why we don't show it is because we don't want to pressure people into going out of their way to raise it.
Why is that?
People are prone to "Bigger is better, number go up" syndrome.
Even if it's counterproductive to their own experience.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631931#Comment_3631931
People who wants to ego boost will use strongest perks/killers and tunnel. You can't fix it. That's like people who gives up whenever something go wrong. You just can't fix those. Those are often same category tho.
It's different for majority of players in my opinion, most people will not go for tunneling / camping as main strategy. If I use multiple slowdown perks, it simply gives me time to hook multiple survivors, before I am "forced" to get someone out of the game.
So you're saying that tunneling is in a fine state because most people have empathy and will willingly go out of their way to make the experience of other players better at their own expense?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631917#Comment_3631917
It's unlikely all survivors are that good. It can happen of course, but it's rare.
Usually there is a weak link that can cost game for everyone, you just need to find him.
Or play in a way you don't need to tunnel from start and have good chance to win. High tier killers, or perks can carry you through it.
Why do you think strong Perks/Killers are excluded from tunneling?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631913#Comment_3631913
Well, there needs to be reason to not do it as first thing.
Before it used to be BBQ. That was basically first thing many killers wanted to do, then was tunneling time if gens were low.
Well, if you play smart you will try to hook more than one survivors just to see who will be easiest to tunnel. Tunneling first survivor you see is just gampling. You hope they are not too good, if they are not, then you win.
I mean. You downed them. If it was quick you've got your answer. If it wasn't you might feel like you're losing already and need to tunnel. And if you're wholly outmatched you likely will not be able to get that "carrot" for not tunneling, since it's less effective.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631907#Comment_3631907
Or tunneling when you have the opportunity to
I consider tunneling an issue only when killer goes into the game with this as main plan and tunnel at 5 gens.
I don't really care when killer does it later (1-2 gens left). It's understandable for me. They still want to win and there is not many options at that point how to do it.
Why not do it earlier than that?
I'm not a great player, and because of that I'm in lobbies where I get A LOT of other players will also make mistakes that I could easily capitalize off of early. (still kinda feels scummy though and I've had to force myself to start doing it so I can get into higher MMR).
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631896#Comment_3631896
conjunction with tunneling
It's more like you go for tunneling, when it doesn't work for you.
3-gen nerf is going to increase tunneling quite a lot imo.
Basically before you had chance to defend your gens and make a comeback from it, it's less likely with this feature, so getting someone out of the game is just way better and easier.
Or tunneling when you have the opportunity to?
It can be pretty easy to tunnel, even accidentally (usually with undetectable Killers)
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631889#Comment_3631889
Eventually, it will become the prominent gameplay style for a player unless they actively try to avoid it.
Well, nerfing most other strategies is really not helping...
Sloppy is going to get nerfed. So hit&run will take a hit.
Hexes overall are just shadows of past, like how often you see that? Their spawns are just awfull and you neede Ruin as slowdown with it... There used to be time where survivors actually used totem detection perks. Those are useless now.
End game builds are way less used, because of NOED nerf and Adrenalin rise.
3-gen is getting nerfed now. So endgame you just need to get someone out of the game -> tunnel.
Most slowdown perks got nerfed hard, I highly doubt we are going to see Grim Embrace for long btw, because it won't be fun for survivors imo. 3-gen mechanic will make many of them worse too.
Camping got nerfed in many forms.
Everything you listed
apart from campingcan be used in conjunction with tunneling.Nerfing them doesn't address the core issue. Trying to get a singular survivor out of the Trial as fast as you can fundamentally gives you more breathing room. No Perks, no addons needed.
And nerfing camping (which was a good move) just makes tunneling more desirable.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631840#Comment_3631840
Tunneling lets you win harder
I have feeling your concept of competitive and mine are different....
When I talk about competitive I mean tournament levels. It's not win harder there, it's often win or lose situation.
Probably.
When I say competitive I'm talking about the drive to reach your goal to the detriment of your (human) opponents. This game is inherintly competitive.
And I think the problem with Tunneling is that it's both effective as shown that it's the meta tournament strat, and it's the path of least resistance:
- If you don't find another survivor if you choose to roam, if the survivor is unhooked you now know where two survivors are, who are likely healing, whom you can interrupt and likely will have one already injured that's easier to down.
- You can proxy hook to intercept rescuers and potentially interrupt three survivors at once (Hooked, intercepted, new rescuer)
- The Hooked Survivor is one more hook state closer to being removed from the game, which upon reaching makes all existing strategies that much more time-efficient
- A more readily apparent defense target can give some semblance of comfort and ease, part of why camping was so prevalent.
Eventually, it will become the prominent gameplay style for a player unless they actively try to avoid it.
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@MalekithHatesSnow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631785#Comment_3631785
Literally who cares about competitive DBD seriously
Does "balance" matter in casual gameplay?
Should Insta-Mori's and Old Brand New Parts have never been removed because it's "competitive-minded balancing"?
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631785#Comment_3631785
I've seen this argument a lot. No point in addressing part of the problem unless you can solve the whole problem?
No point curing cancer if you can't end world hunger, right?
The one of the biggest issues with tunneling right now is the frequency at which it occurs. If you fix it for part of the playerbase, the amount of killers tunnelling decreases (but not to zero), the frequency decreases. But I guess anything less than zero is not worth bothering with.
Didn't say it couldn't be implemented, just that it only addresses some of the problem: If you like bloodpoints you'll go for it. But if you like "winning" the defined Trial mechanics, you'll fallback onto tunneling.
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631785#Comment_3631785
Competitive section
Those actually need to tunnel to win. You can't fix that and it's minority anyway.
Tunneling lets you win harder, it isn't only a "crutch". And people tend to gravitate towards better strategies over time. Why do you think looping is popular even though it wasn't the main focus of the game to start with. Thankfully looping is relatively entertaining for both sides.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631237#Comment_3631237
Wanna make it basekit?
Well, if you want actually fix it, then bring back old BBQ. That actually made killers throw games just to get 4 stacks.
That will appease one section of the playerbase, but not the competitive section.
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@pizzavessel15 said:
if its encouraging to tunnel to win in the game maybe you have to ask yourself. is tunneling the issue or is it the balance.
It is both.
DBD's fundamental metric is time-management: Can Survivors spend enough time on their objectives before the Killer catches them.
Killer can more or less interrupt one survivor at a time. If a Survivor is removed, the future time that they could have provided is now burdened onto the other survivors. The remaining survivors are now more beneficial to interrupt by the Killer. Repeat.
@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
The better question is what would incentivize you not to tunnel. Definitely not longer gens because that's been proven that people will still tunnel.
People will optimize the fun out of the game.
Find what is optimal, and make that fun, or shift what is optimal.
Make being sacrificed early, inactivity on Hook, and short chases fun.
Or give survivors easy tools to prevent early survivor removal and/or give benefits to the Killer for not tunneling that equal or exceed the time-benefit from tunneling.
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A Perk is a band-aid.
Not only that, it can also be used in conjunction with Tunneling, as it still procs on that first hook.
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The Gens are there to stall survivors while the Killer kills Survivors.
You should be asking how conductive the current 5 Gens are to whatever the point of "balance" is.
Otherwise if you're just concerned with Gen numbers, how do you know it's not the case the game is balanced around 4 Gens and the 5th one is there is to make it so the Killer actually has 4 Gens?
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Could be a cheater. Could be devs testing fixes if the issue is more about server oddities more easily tested one the live environment.
How were they playing?
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@Pink_Ronin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630820#Comment_3630820
I would be all for a rework that made the conditions for opening hatch more difficult while still allowing team hatch escapes to be a possibility. It was a fun objective that added variety to the gameplay and shouldn't have been completely abandoned
The problem with that is that it allows Survivors to skip any Exit Gate related perks. You'd need to move the conditions farther back such as having both Exit Gates opened before the Hatch will spawn/open, and then figure out how you want to deal with Perks like Bloodwarden or other similar Exit block effects.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630337#Comment_3630337
Keys and moris are alternative paths to victory indeed, and they are like Sun and Moon.
Can't bring back one without bringing back the other.
@Thusly_Boned said:
Having multiple survs escape when you were winning, especially when trying to play the "right" way (i.e. spreading hooks) felt bad, man.
Also remember the bad things the old key/hatch system encouraged (lots of Franklin's, tunneling out anyone with key in lobby, etc).
If this was brought back, I'd want one hook (or no hook) moris also brought back to balance that out. Alternative paths to victory and all that.
Old Keys/Hatch and Old/New Moris are different. But both share a core issue.
Old Keys/Hatch provided a new victory condition: bring an item to an unknown point after a given threshold. It has its own distinct gameplay of scouring the map for Hatch, as well as potentially being sourced from the Trial itself via Searching Chests for Keys.
Its activation conditions meant that it could be used to at minimum to bypass the Exit Gate, with 1 Survivor dead it could skip the last Gen, with 2 dead it could bypass the last 2 Gens. It also bypasses the patrol pressure Killers apply on Generators while Survivors look for Hatch. By being an item, the Killer could interrupt its use.
Moris don't provide an additional victory condition, it accelerates the existing one (Kill Survivors). It does not have distinct gameplay, though it does have distinct visuals. It also cannot be sourced from the Trial itself (only through an offering).
Mori's flat out lower the survivor Kill threshold and are immutable.
The shared problem with both Keys/Hatch and Moris is that they are the shortest path to victory. That is not an alternate path to victory, that is the main path to victory that players will pivot to optimize towards.
I do think that alternate paths to victory can work. However they need to be balanced against other methods.
For Moris there is a fundamental flaw with their implementation: A flat lower Kill threshold is applicable to all styles of gameplay. The path of least resistance would be to use Moris in conjunction with whatever meta strategy exists, in this case, "Tunneling". Moris also have an issue as an alternate victory path given that they restrict user choice of Offering: if they become equal to tunneling or surpass it, then gameplay variety relies on reducing Offering choice, or becomes mandatory for meta play.
For Keys/Hatch, it's more problematic. Tying a distinct victory condition to an Item also brings that Item way out of line with the rest of the Item roster. Keys/Hatch suffer the same design problem with Moris in that they apply ontop of whatever meta strategy exists for completing Gens the fastest. Keys/Hatch also have the issue in that they eschew Killer patrolling. All 4 Survivors may not share the same goal, which may cause logistic issues if Key/Hatch is made too distinct from Generators. Given the asymmetric nature of individual victory between Survivors and Killer, this alternate path must scale with players attempting it, and tying it exclusively to generators would also retain an issue that has arisen with the removal of Keys/Hatch:
@Peanits said:
Others have beat me to it, but the way the hatch used to work created some awkward scenarios that weren't very fun to play. The Killer could be doing well, have a few people near death, but suddenly everything stops with 2 gens left. They patrol the gens a few times, but the Survivors are nowhere to be found and no progress is being made on any of the gens. Then the remaining Survivors suddenly disappear and the game ends. Turns out the entire time, the Survivors were wandering around looking for the hatch and leading their teammates to it.
It made for a really underwhelming premature end to the match, and didn't fairly reflect people's performance in the match leading up to it.
You still have the problem where everything stops when there are two survivors left, who might otherwise have been scouring the map for a Key, who are now waiting for the other to die (or being slugged). As a result of the Killer having the advantage in this scenario when it comes the survivors reduced split pressure.
If I were to give my two cents on reintroducing these alternate victory paths, I'd do the following:
For Mori's - require Hooks on non-consecutive Survivors (to separate from tunneling), remove Hook requirements for Moris once the non-consecutive Survivor Hook threshold is reached, EG: after reaching 8 distinct Hooks you may Kill all Survivors by your Hand.
For Keys/Hatch - No Key requirement or Interaction (remove the Item issue). Make the Hatch visible from the start of the Trial (give Killer the chance to find and add it to their Patrol route when it becomes prominent). When a Survivor is Sacrificed/Killed a Haunt will spawn in the Trial. A player picking up a Haunt is empowered with the Void: Killer becomes undetectable for a duration, survivors lose scratch marks for a duration. Multiple Haunts can be collected at once, each refreshing the duration of the effect and counting as an extra stack. All Haunts must have dissipated before they respawn after a delay. While empowered, Survivors can interact with The Hatch to infuse the Haunt into it. Once two Haunts have been deposited, a global audio cue plays. Once three have been deposited, the Hatch opens. The Killer can Kick the Hatch to disperse all charges or close it.
These Haunts promote roaming the map for both sides. The limitation on spawned Haunts will only allow up to 2 charges to be deposited while 2 Survivors are alive, but The Hatch signaling itself as a threat when those charges are deposited can help move the Killer around so the other Survivor can try to work on a Gen while the Killer goes to kick it, with the Killer being able to try to collect Haunts to Empower themselves and prevent Survivors from using the Hatch. The Hatch is also useless when all 4 Survivors are alive.
Though this is probably much more prone to error that the Mori suggestion.
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@TheDiscoAvenger said:
I don't see spectator updates as high priority either but with my disability it doesn't matter what the symbol is as it can only communicate so much. Good design is key for sure. But hindered was simply an example that was easy to come up with a phrase for.
So being a software engineer I know business analysts will see reports like this, if their reporting system works, so when a bug inevitably affects the spectator screen this could be an excellent addition when updates are made.
Besides with it being toggleable it won't clutter up the screens for the majority who don't need it. But the extra clutter, or bad design elements, can be incredibly useful when someone's nuerotype processes mass amounts of information quickly but can't store alot of reference information.
That's why I don't think just updating the logo would help because I still have 30+ perks to memorize and 10+ status effects for refernceable on screen info and then I need to keep a general reference of each killers ability and a basic knowledge of each killers add-ons if I want any chance at higher level competitive play.
In all honesty I don't think that not being able to remember 30+ Perk Icons and their effects, all status effects and their symbols, Killer Powers, and their addons at a glance is neurodivergent... wanting too probably is. People don't usually get that invested with games and even then that will take a long time.
I'm not against the idea of a better Perk/effect identification, but I wouldn't call you disabled for not being able to quickly memorize everything in a game.
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If a symbol isn't easily referenced to associated words, then it's not a good symbol, perhaps try to argue on ways that the symbol could be improved?
What about the Hindered symbol prevents easy reference to Slow Movement for you?
I highly doubt many people remember what all Perks do. Being able to read them at the end of match screen is already a decent solution, I don't see the improvement of the spectator screen as very high priority.
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I do think that the Perk Tiers are generally useless at this point.
I find it annoying that I cannot use the auto-blood web on non-prestige characters.
I think that unlocking Perks via blood web interaction is an unnecessary abstraction away from gameplay unlocking the Perk and favors those with banked bloodpoints than those starting from scratch.
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Don't buy stuff you don't want.
If the only reason you bought Stranger Things stuff is literally because of FOMO and exclusivity status with no other desire to use that content... Well start buying smarter.
If you bought ST and then used it because you liked it, you still got a return from it. (You probably could have sought a refund shortly after purchase if you didn't like it).
If you bought ST to try and flip it because of scarcity and exclusivity prestige and are only now looking to rectify that spent money when it's no longer exclusive, you are the problem and why companies do FOMO in the first place.
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I thought people liked Survivor Powers? /s
In all seriousness... I don't think phenotypes should be standardized.
Sure, maybe some egregious cases of things like grunts of pain should be looked at (since, you know, you could cover your mouth to muffle the noise but that's not a mechanic), but not equalized across the board to a sanitary degree.
And if you start trying to make phenotypes competitive... That's a subject that's quite a minefield. Best to let the community deal with that then set a foundational precedent.
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An unconditional free wiggle-out Perk wouldn't be a good idea for the game.
I say unconditional because its only condition is the main survivor objective in the first place: repairing and finishing gens.
There would be no gameplay deviation apart from the high chance that you now get to wiggle out once per match, which can be extremely powerful based on location and Killer.
Regarding weapons to 'fight back' against the Killer, I don't think that's a great idea either. A lack of agency against the Killer when the Killer is on a Survivor is a good thing for this game, it means that Survivors should try to avoid the Killer. If you start adding in more ways to directly fight the Killer when they're on top of you, that threat is made even smaller.
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If I barely hit you, I get to try again several times. If I missed you once, I get to try again several times.
The ultimate crutch, and the ultimate non-handicap.
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@elderwitcher96 said:
I'm not an impatient person, but considering it's been like 4 months since the fov slider announcement and the fact that the biggest workload related to it is reworking shadowborn I feel they are being way too slow with the amount of work this would entail.
Changing Shadowborn/MnA is probably the easiest thing about the work involved with the FoV change. (Depending on how they change Shadowborn, of course)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573238#Comment_3573238
Is that implying that the entire time, between the FoV slider being announced, and September 25th when it was declared ASAP, that BHVR did 0% work on the FoV slider? As in literally didn't even start the FoV slider at all before September 25th?
And why on earth does it need to be 1000s of manual tests before we can see it? They could just run some tests, and throw it on the PTB, with a disclaimer that it's still a work in progress, so we could at least preview it.
Or, the first release could have just have been a Shadowborn toggle in the options menu, or maybe just 2 or 3 presets, and the fully functional FoV slider could have been created later. Or at least we could have gotten concept art, or some other details about the FoV slider, instead of just "it's not ready yet".
It's likely that this isn't as high priority as a quarterly content update. Thus, it would not have many employees allocated to it. So, it's possible the QA (Excluding dev/designers that work on issues unearthed by this) is being done by only a few people who may have other more highly prioritized tasks that they jump between. This means it will be slow going, both in testing, and fitting in bug fixes across the timeline. So, we don't know how long they've been working on it, or how much has been worked on and when.
And this is the kind of feature that has a lot of testing for a relatively small code change, given that the camera is something that touches a lot of other gameplay functionality. It's also the kind of thing that can have a lot of emergent work required, if most models/code were made under the assumption of a fixed FoV.
The feature could be finished in a day but take several months to deal with its ripples.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573180#Comment_3573180
The screenshot I posted is dated September 25th. It's been "ASAP" since September 25th.
Sure, "as soon as possible" includes:
Making the FoV setting in the first place.
Testing that it works as intended with the UI values provided.
Then...
Testing the FoV settings on Killer Powers that rely on FoV, for every major FoV setting.
Then....
Checking the Vault/Locker/LockerGrab/GenGrab/WindowFrontGrab/WindowBackGrab/Carry/Walk/Wipe/Miss/Hit/TerrainHit/Snuff/Hatch/Squash animations and all Power Animations for every Killer to check that their 1st person skeleton shows up correctly for each major FoV setting.
Then...
Do all that again on every cosmetic model with significant model changes.
Then...
Anything else I couldn't think of on the spot.
Which is probably 1000s of manual tests. + dialogue back and forth for issues found and resolution on major issues.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567622#Comment_3567622
The solution BHVR are looking for is likely not "everyone can lobby shop".
Hiding prestiges in pre-game lobby for everyone is fine. Post-lobby prestiges still show.
I know, but I do want to point out that the only role that can lobby-shop at the moment is the Killer role. And the person that I replied to probably would be hurt if they couldn't showcase their Killer prestige to Survivors in the pre-game lobby.
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@appleas said:
Tail is still buggy. I’ve hit a Survivor in the chest setting up a turret and the game decides that it isn’t a hit.
Turret hitboxes are still wonky.
That’s your iconic license in a nutshell.
Yeah, I tried playing alien and I had a Yui that stood right in front of me, I used the tail attack while she was standing still, and the tail went through her, the projectile effect even went through her torso. The next time it worked, oddly.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566038#Comment_3566038
Or…. How about we make it an option?
A lot of people don’t want prestiges hidden. It’s not even a dodge thing. I grinded to p100. Why would I want it hidden?
I think the amount some of y’all on here complain about “being dodged” is dramatic. Being p100 isn’t super uncommon or scary anymore. Everybody has got high prestige characters now. I’ve got p100’s in nearly every single killer match, if not more than 1.
Kinda seems unfair when only the Killer sees an opponent's prestige in the pre-game lobby. Maybe they could also let Survivors see the Killers Prestige level (but not the Killer) while in the lobby too?
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The addition of a zone that connects with the trial is novel for this game. I like the ambiance it provides, and I'm curious if Haunts will have any further implementation into the game. The Broken status effect on Survivors when Injured can act as a visual signal that a Survivor has entered The Void (and also gives an incentive for entering Healthy), item charges on releasing Haunts for Survivors can be nice for item builds (though I don't know how many charges it restores). And Haste+Undetectable on Killer through the event interaction is cool (but somewhat reliant on understanding where you exit the The Void).
But there are some things I don't like about the implementation of the event mechanics:
The layout of the Void could also be improved to give better clarity on where exiting portals will lead to in the Trial. Instead of a box, match the shape of the Void to its given map. And place identifiable landmarks (possibly just floating in the skybox) accordingly, so players can get a better understanding of their surroundings should they exit.
Even with the Haste effect upon interacting with the Unstable Rifts, the interaction itself is more M1 gameplay and feels as though it detracts a bit from the movement you used to reach that Unstable Rift point. I don't think there should be any interaction prompt for the Unstable Rifts, and the player coming into contact with the Void Rift should simply automatically add energy (if they have enough).
Exiting and Entering the Void is mildly annoying. The interaction prompt takes time and isn't well used in chase and feels clunky from the Killer perspective (always slashing at it). I think it would be beneficial to make entering/exiting the void simply be based on walking into the center of the Portal with near instant teleportation. (If you want to add a cooldown, have the portal itself destabilize for a couple seconds.)
Unstable rifts you deposit energy into don't remain, so there is no mark where a portal will open (for you or others). I think a better user experience would be to create an "engorged rift" that signifies that's where a portal will develop when energy is deposited (into other Rifts).
The Portal generation seems like it could be improved. When the Void is opened, no new Portals can be opened. However, it would be nice if there was player agency on creation of additional portals once they have entered The Void, such that for Killer their exit options can be more strategic. It doesn't have to be totally open-ended where they could open a new portal, but it would be nice if instead of releasing the Haunts, you could tether them to a point in the Trial, using them as a new portal.
Even if you have a full bar of energy, you can't deposit it all into one unstable rift, there is a minimum number of unstable rifts that have to be interacted with before they open. I don't like this. It would be nice to be able to perform interactions with an "engorged rift" to open The Void from a single point. Such that in the event that gameplay has necessitated your full interaction for a while, you don't have to spend time running around the map interacting with Rifts if others haven't.
Then there's the Haunts. Not sure what the translucent Haunts in the Trial are for. Surprised you can't run into them to collect more void energy. And the friendly Haunts that you spawn always seem to spawn on the opposite side of the map (that I've seen so far).
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3567565#Comment_3567565
They also nodded at and humped us on the ground before hooking, hence why I'm so close to bleeding out, so i sincerely doubt they were just hitting on hook because they were waiting for her to die. I also never even got hooked, I died from bleed out.
Then report them for unsportsmanlike play. That kind of gameplay isn't thematic nor sporting.
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Likely the problem would be the platform owners themselves.
BHVR is using 3rd party hardware in order to sell a software product, they don't own the hardware themselves.
In order for the hardware companies to keep themselves financed over time; they need some kind of continual revenue stream. This can come from subscription services. It can also come from taking a cut from sales on their platform (with which they can use to reduce their own subscription service cost and/or make their subscription service more appealing).
Detaching sales from platforms basically reduces revenue for the hardware providers. That could possibly hurt future deals, violate existing ones, and make BHVR less appealing of a partner.
Could they structure some sort of deal/monitoring where codes credit the platform on which they were redeemed? Probably, but it would require more overhead to manage and would add more points of failure such as the addition of time delays between money spent and currency redeemed.
But this is my own speculation, maybe they already "pay rent", and in-game transactions are not touched.
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@dwight444 said:
this is for the most egregious type of camping, I don't get how people are legitimately mad about it as if it's an unhealthy change??
you really can't refrain from doing this ???
play something else if this is what you had to do to secure 1 kill, clearly you were not having a good go at it to begin with
It's a healthy change. It's just unhealthy design.
It's a passive effect that removes agency from a player and utilizes several triggers that are barely telegraphed to players involved.
It can come across as logical to "guard the flag", but instead of introducing base-game methods for Survivors to get around the Killer, this system just instills the idea that "you can't guard the flag". Not because of the actions of the survivors, but because the system itself says so.
Not to mention a lack of transparency of the system while in-game just leads to more "okay, what's the threshold? Have I reached it? Should I be concerned about it? etc. That just takes up extra thought".
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Are there indications for Haste effects in the game yet? (Such as modified animations or small contrail effects) So players don't have to guess if a player is going faster than normal while the Survivor has full benefit of increased mobility?
And ultimate weapon is overtuned: Open locker while patrolling, turn brain off until a scream happens. Perk cooldown is back up after chase/down/hook. Also has no counter outside of such healthy design such as Calm Spirit's "This Perk passively negates screams at all times". And as a bonus it blinds players for 30s so if they have Windows of opportunity, they're much less effective in chase if they brought that Perk because they don't have Tiles memorized.
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So long as they implement a role cooldown for dodging too many lobbies in a row. (To address players shopping for players with Perks they want/dodging those they think are bringing stupid stuff, and to address Killers window shopping survivors based on outfits/items) Assuming you mean also showing the Perks in the lobby too.
In-game an easy implementation might be to just add Perk breakdowns into the pause menu.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
That wouldn’t necessarily be better than current IW since it would make it a lot harder to get any benefit from in chase. IW is completely fine the way it is imo
The point is to shift it away from being a chase suppression of Grunts of pain into another playstyle (out of chase covert perk) with Bite The Bullet taking precedent for chase-based Grunts of Pain suppression.
Not make a duplicate or an overall better choice in chase.
@SpanishExecutioner said:
That's just worse than current IW in my opinion. Even with current IW, when you are crouching, you are going to need some spirit main with 200% volume to hear you. Unless you play Jeff, or Bill.
IW would be fine without that exhaustion limitation, I don't think it's needed. It was overnerfed in exactly same way as Ruin, just double nerfed in single patch for some reason.
IMO total passive removal of Grunts of pain isn't a good idea for a Perk. Grunts of pain give a lot of information of a Survivor's whereabouts in loops and when patrolling. Given that the Killer is playing off of that information (and 3d audio in general due to the 1st person camera limitations in loops regarding line of sight), the Perks should be more proactive in their use (effectiveness based on how and when the Perk itself is used), rather than reactive to the Killer messing up due to an absence of information.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557467#Comment_3557467
I've always been so curious how those players use SC in a way that makes it so valuable. I'll have to look into any recordings I can find online or something, it's fascinating.
Simple: The Survivor that isn't healing you is now doing something else.
The other survivor doesn't take time finding you, or pathing to you. They can even be in chase, repairing a generator, or healing another survivor that doesn't have self-care.
That being said you probably want to bring a healing speed perk in tandem as it's unlikely that anytime you heal, the other survivor (that would have been healing you) brought Perks themselves that make up for the 13s of inefficiency incurred by the 35% healing speed. Or that they're actually doing something beneficial.
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Yeah, it's strange.
It's not like a skin locked behind endgame highly coordinated raid mechanics. You always get blood points from matches and end up putting them towards your characters. So long as you spend BP on the character you want, you are always making progress towards a goal. Which is a retention booster, especially if there is a tangible reward at the end.
Hell, it could even be something like a "bloodied" effect that applies itself to the mesh of any given clothing item (think of Nemesis's Blue splotches, hell, use the "totally not a placeholder to test the nemesis blotches" bloodied effect the PTB or so before he released), so it applies to all existing cosmetics and still lets people buy cosmetics in conjunction with it.
And regarding Seasonal Cosmetics, I still think it could be better approached with seasonal discounts instead. Being available all year. You're "no longer" video-game FOMO while still having FOMO through discounts.
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TCM is in a honeymoon period, where most experiences are new, novel, for nearly the entire user-base.
That said, I think its going to have some growing pains, especially given their apparent stance on random Perks (On Twitter they were hostile towards the idea of players "save-scumming" for specific Perks and said that players should just make a build out of what they were given based on RNG).
They apparently think that novelty comes from willing handicaps or stunted user agency. Instead of a multitude of valid options to choose from based on user preference or incentives (EG: Challenges). Or optional handicaps (such as a "Randomizer", which is a great idea for DBD (given caveats that the Perks still try to synergize with each other)).
They'll have to balance "competitively" at some point, which in reality is just making Perks provide a multitude of alternate pathways of performing the same goal via different flavors. (This does not, however, mean that they should be able to be used effectively by everyone the same, some people might have a preference for immediate result Perks, some might not, some might like that one is red instead of blue, etc.)
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Based on "luck", given The Hatch is invisible until it can be used, a Survivor or the Killer can find it immediately and use it.
- This is unfair for Killers given the Survivor had to do very little to end the match if The Hatch spawned under the Survivor.
- This is unfair for Survivors who didn't have a chance to even attempt to search for the Hatch if The Hatch spawned under The Killer.
Closing The Hatch starts the EGC
- This requires the Killer to still patrol the Exit Gates after already finding The Hatch, which is unfair given they already had to drop everything to search for The Hatch. Though this is a map-dependent issue.
When closed, a Survivor with a Key can open the Hatch (I believe even a Key without any charges so long as it's an eligible Key).
- This is unfair for the Killer who already found The Hatch and now must patrol the Exit Gates.
- This is unfair for Survivors if they choose not to bring a Key, given the Key user can still use their item and can then use its additional effect.
Personally, I'd make it so that Bloodweb Keys can no longer open the hatch, the hatch is closed by default when it spawns, a closed hatch still emits a muted audio cue, and a special Hatch-specific Key spawns in the basement when all Totems are cleansed.
- This prevents Survivors having immediate access to The Hatch escape without any effort being put in.
- This removes item disparity given niche use cases.
- The Hatch starting closed prevents the EGC being a significant part of Killer Hatch gameplay.
- This provides a base-game mechanic for Totems.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531572#Comment_3531572
The truth is… I don't know what to believe anymore… The Entity is… not what it is… or what I thought it was…"
This doesn't prove that there is a second Entity, only that truly understanding The Entity is beyond comprehension.
"More luminous energy sent to me by an unknown ally. With this energy, I was able to open a small window that allowed me to look into a lost realm where I saw to my great surprise a city with survivors living as though nothing was out of the ordinary. The window eventually closed, and I spent the entire evening imagining how such a thing could be possible or if it was merely an illusion. The same night another surge of energy permitted me to open a doorway into a realm I didn't much recognise or dare explore. I stared at the scintillating doorway until it faded out of existence. It's as though the one manifesting these sacred glyphs is trying to help me delve deeper into the mysteries of this dimension or, perhaps, he is suggesting that the answers to my salvation are hidden amongst the countless realms discarded by this Old One since time immemorial."
"I have uncovered to my amazement and bewilderment memories of Claudette that are unlike any of those I've previously experienced. One might even say they should not belong to her... and yet... they are hers. I surmise these memories may belong to another Claudette from another Terra world, suggesting that this Old One may have clear preferences at the cosmic buffet for certain souls. It will take more samples of these memories to know if they are in fact from another Claudette or if, and it is possible, I am having troubles deciphering between her actual memories and her creative musings."
"I have often wondered if those trapped here have ever paused to reflect upon the inexplicable significance of this world that defies not only time and space but death. A world made of memories that is neither consistent or constant. Something akin to a collective dream made of the collective memories and beliefs of its inhabitants. Sometimes I wonder if not all worlds were like this in some respect and that reality is what we in fact dream it to be or believe it to be."
"Stories and journals are scattered everywhere. So much to read… and yet I find myself drawn to the scribblings and renditions of the unknown creator I'm calling the Mad Designer. Journals filled with the wild sketches and musings of people I imagine are caught in other parts of this living dimension--people juxtaposed with other Terra worlds and timelines that make little or no sense to who they are or where they come from. The illustrations and notes are foolish, absurd and quite contradictory, and yet they bring moments of levity to my life which does the soul good. I suppose it's a form of absurd escapism I turn to when I'm not reading the more traditional stories. Interestingly enough, I found seventeen versions of a story featuring a killer named Evan written by seventeen versions of the same author from the omniverse. Seventeen similar stories with sometimes subtle, sometimes significant differences. What I find particularly interesting is how the stories are written as fiction in one world and non-fiction in another. It reminds me of Universus Alveo… a theory that suggests that the human mind might very well be equipped with a powerful networking mechanism that reaches out to other worlds for wisdom and knowledge from our other-selves. Some can use their minds in this way and others can't. The theory suggests that those who have experienced trauma in their formative years detach from their reality, allowing them to explore other realities and worlds with relative ease. Artists like magicians and shamans see small things in the big, unexplainable endless dream that is the omniverse and they bring these ideas or insights back to entertain, enlighten and inspire the world. Fiction in one world, non-fiction in another. Everything is real, or nothing is. And here in the Chamber of Blood there are countless horror stories of every variety. So many that it seems to me that one of the unknown prisoners was collecting these stories as a way to discover more about their imprisonment, the Entity and the terrible screams coming from the surrounding abyss. Whether this true or not, I'm not sure, but what I do know is I spent the whole night reading my favorite stories out loud like my father used to do by the fireplace. And the entire time I couldn't help but wonder… How? How could anyone have accessed and assembled such a rich collection of notes, journals and stories? I have no immediate answer, but I suspect by the texture and density of the fog that I may be in a place as complex, mysterious and misunderstood as a black hole—a living, breathing, all-consuming black hole, the serpent of infinity that gorges on its tail, that eats itself endlessly as it spirals downward into the cosmic, Fibonacci stew that is life incomprehensible."
All of this doesn't prove that there are 2 Entities and neither does it prove that Jezabel/The Mad Designer has anything to do with the trials as that aspect is not even mentioned at any point in the entry that's talking about her.
The Entity is cosmic/existential horror. Not Jigsaw.
It's both, the other quotes that i didn't bother to address doesn't contradict the quotes that i did address.
The Entity is conscious, it's literally stated and shown to be as it's capable of using objects to communicate as seen with Billy the Puppet from the SAW tome trailer, it's been striking deals with killers to bring them into the trials or tortured killers if they don't submit to it's will, it's even been known to toy with people such as Talbot in the Human Quotation tome and so many other examples.
All of this is something only you don't seem to get, nobody else except you thinks these headcanons of yours are legit and if you were to ask the lore guys at bhvr, i guarantee you they would say you're wrong as well.
Nowhere in any of the tomes is it directly suggested or outright stated that someone else other than the cosmic force that The Entity is are controlling the trials and none of these quotes supports that notion your headcanon claim.
I'm just gonna leave it at that and not keep this conversation going any further because it's clear that i'm wasting my time on you.
The question is how much of it is "The Entity", and whether or not emergent sapient personalities can be formed through the thoughts and emotions of those within its realm. Or how much control an individual can amass over the Fog itself. We already know that monstrosities can form, such as The Dredge. But what's the limit?
And what I don't think anyone else seems to get, is the sheer limitless scope of infinity. There is no bound to what is canon and what isn't, just what scope is currently being used, its lens, how it's being observed from a given perspective.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529806#Comment_3529806
My headcannon heavily intertwines with the Arcus logs of the starting tomes. Which leans heavily into the same kind of sentient multiversal horror
I mean that's all fine & dandy but that still doesn't change the fact that it is still only just that, a headcanon.
Unless the lore itself states these things as legit, it will never be canon regardless of how much you treat it as such.
Have you read the Arcus logs? I'm just making a more generic outline:
"The atmosphere of the realms is dark and grim to say the least but also… everchanging. I've already remarked that the atmosphere is misty even foggy at times and that this fog feels alive. It seems to contain swirls and streams of memories or imprints of beings from multiple terra worlds. It is as if The Entity absorbs all the psychic energy and thoughts of beings it snatches as it journeys through the endless cosmos."
"End the trials. Destroy its ability to sap dark nectar from victims like a cruel parasite feeding from a flower. At least the Archives affords me a better understanding of the Entity… why it moves from universe to universe, picking victims off and devouring worlds as though at a cosmic buffet. What I have yet to conclude is whether it is attracted to worlds that are brimming with darkness and madness or if it is in fact the catalyst of such darkness and madness."
"All planes of existence are a unique mix of conscious Auric particles and material particles. The Entity is almost certainly pure consciousness… The observable fact of existence is the material world responds to and changes with consciousness… collective consciousness is the key… The body, the home, the trial—all of it is an expression of The Entity's unconscious need for fear and terror."
Still seems as the entity is malevolent and consciously acting out the trials, true.
Then it gets to this part
"Life is not life in this prison, and death is not an escape. It is merely the start of a new trial and most survivors are aware they are caught in something they will never understand. Why this is all happening is no longer obvious to me. The truth is… I don't know what to believe anymore… The Entity is… not what it is… or what I thought it was…"
"Things could have been worse. I could have been banished in a dimension without Auric Fog containing the memory imprints of countless victims, memories that keep me entertained and busy with my coin and spirit collections... and the music... the variations from parallel worlds... it helps pass the time. In a twisted way I think what I'm admitting is that I'm glad The Entity takes what it wants when it wants from the omniverse."
"There is a curiosity at the core of every thinking person. A need for knowledge from uncharted and unknowable territories, but what is discovered in those blank spaces of the abyss... of the cosmos are things far too immense to understand. Things better left unobserved lest they undermine our sanity. Better to embrace ignorance than face the truth of our insignificance in the grand scheme of it all. Against the vastness of the infinite we are mere microbes swirling in an endless, indifferent cosmic stew. I say stew… but The Entity is probably more of a blood pudding."
"I have recently wondered if Survivors realise the titanic significance of their thoughts and feelings, and of how The Entity uses them to furnish the trials. Thoughts and feelings that bring me glimpses of what it's like to have lived on a parallel world as someone else. It helps pass the time."
It can still be said that the Entity itself does direct the layouts of the Trials.
"More luminous energy sent to me by an unknown ally. With this energy, I was able to open a small window that allowed me to look into a lost realm where I saw to my great surprise a city with survivors living as though nothing was out of the ordinary. The window eventually closed, and I spent the entire evening imagining how such a thing could be possible or if it was merely an illusion. The same night another surge of energy permitted me to open a doorway into a realm I didn't much recognise or dare explore. I stared at the scintillating doorway until it faded out of existence. It's as though the one manifesting these sacred glyphs is trying to help me delve deeper into the mysteries of this dimension or, perhaps, he is suggesting that the answers to my salvation are hidden amongst the countless realms discarded by this Old One since time immemorial."
"I have uncovered to my amazement and bewilderment memories of Claudette that are unlike any of those I've previously experienced. One might even say they should not belong to her... and yet... they are hers. I surmise these memories may belong to another Claudette from another Terra world, suggesting that this Old One may have clear preferences at the cosmic buffet for certain souls. It will take more samples of these memories to know if they are in fact from another Claudette or if, and it is possible, I am having troubles deciphering between her actual memories and her creative musings."
"I have often wondered if those trapped here have ever paused to reflect upon the inexplicable significance of this world that defies not only time and space but death. A world made of memories that is neither consistent or constant. Something akin to a collective dream made of the collective memories and beliefs of its inhabitants. Sometimes I wonder if not all worlds were like this in some respect and that reality is what we in fact dream it to be or believe it to be."
"Stories and journals are scattered everywhere. So much to read… and yet I find myself drawn to the scribblings and renditions of the unknown creator I'm calling the Mad Designer. Journals filled with the wild sketches and musings of people I imagine are caught in other parts of this living dimension--people juxtaposed with other Terra worlds and timelines that make little or no sense to who they are or where they come from. The illustrations and notes are foolish, absurd and quite contradictory, and yet they bring moments of levity to my life which does the soul good. I suppose it's a form of absurd escapism I turn to when I'm not reading the more traditional stories. Interestingly enough, I found seventeen versions of a story featuring a killer named Evan written by seventeen versions of the same author from the omniverse. Seventeen similar stories with sometimes subtle, sometimes significant differences. What I find particularly interesting is how the stories are written as fiction in one world and non-fiction in another. It reminds me of Universus Alveo… a theory that suggests that the human mind might very well be equipped with a powerful networking mechanism that reaches out to other worlds for wisdom and knowledge from our other-selves. Some can use their minds in this way and others can't. The theory suggests that those who have experienced trauma in their formative years detach from their reality, allowing them to explore other realities and worlds with relative ease. Artists like magicians and shamans see small things in the big, unexplainable endless dream that is the omniverse and they bring these ideas or insights back to entertain, enlighten and inspire the world. Fiction in one world, non-fiction in another. Everything is real, or nothing is. And here in the Chamber of Blood there are countless horror stories of every variety. So many that it seems to me that one of the unknown prisoners was collecting these stories as a way to discover more about their imprisonment, the Entity and the terrible screams coming from the surrounding abyss. Whether this true or not, I'm not sure, but what I do know is I spent the whole night reading my favorite stories out loud like my father used to do by the fireplace. And the entire time I couldn't help but wonder… How? How could anyone have accessed and assembled such a rich collection of notes, journals and stories? I have no immediate answer, but I suspect by the texture and density of the fog that I may be in a place as complex, mysterious and misunderstood as a black hole—a living, breathing, all-consuming black hole, the serpent of infinity that gorges on its tail, that eats itself endlessly as it spirals downward into the cosmic, Fibonacci stew that is life incomprehensible."
The Entity is cosmic/existential horror. Not Jigsaw.