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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519742#Comment_3519742
Problem is, like many other things you claim, is that you're combining your own headcanons with that of the actual canon and act as if it's all legit.
just because you're treating your headcanons as if they're actual part of the actual canon doesn't automatically make it anymore canon than that of any other headcanons, which is none at all.
And no, that has nothing to do with any "artistic difference" (even though you can't really call it that since what is canon isn't some subjective thing since everything that actually is canon is clearly stated in the tomes and such), it's just a matter of fact.
My headcannon heavily intertwines with the Arcus logs of the starting tomes. Which leans heavily into the same kind of sentient multiversal horror (Omniversal given IP crossovers), with its own interior multiverse. Which, if true. basically means that the Trials format is its own subdimension ("Universe", though I hesitate to call it that given all likely are finite in size) within The Entity.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519758#Comment_3519758
I disagree. It'll eliminate (or heavily punish) facecamping - a rather dull and not very efficient, but rightfully disliked practice. It wont affect the highly interactive and very efficient macro-approach often referred as 'hard tunneling'. I'm personally very happy for that, as it's a pretty fun playstyle, especially once you start to regularly face groups of survivors who know how to play around it instead of giving up as soon as they realize what's happening.
Once the feature goes live, I'll read the lamentations of mediocre killers claiming that "killer got nerfed" with the same glee I'll feel about the survivor complaints that the anti-facecamp feature only eliminated facecamping, and they are still subject to proxy-camping and tunneling. I'll have a hard time resisting to point out their "skill issue" in both of these cases.
I'm the kind of CoD of advanced warfare player that would setup anti-infantry mines to make sure a chokepoint was just that, a choke-point, given player interaction and more than enough anti-infantry mines,
DBD doesn't have that.... Yet.
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How good is your "Map sense", understanding where players likely will be?
- You want to be able to have good map sense and utilize her crouch Undetectable a bit, especially at the start, to get the drop on Survivors and get in a stealth hit before chasing, otherwise that first down will be a pain. But you do move slower, so going to the wrong spot penalizes you more.
Are you fine with having Perks be your chase power more often than not?
- Her Ambush can be used to push Survivors out of a loop, but only hit good survivors in certain loops.
Are you fine with dealing with a lot of pallets/loops in a match?
- Her RBT's provide quite a bit of slowdown, but this means she's going to be doing a lot of M1 Killer stuff if not getting lucky with Survivors running you towards Survivors with RBT's to down them (or you scouting out an RBT'ed survivor)
She doesn't have a great chase Power, but when it comes to leveraging map sense and chase fundamentals she's good. Does get a little dumpstered at higher MMR if players pre-run and really extend that first chase preventing you from getting an RBT on early, be it through comms, Pallet dense maps with players that pre-drop, or a map with huge sightlines.
I don't use her addons much, so can't really comment on them.
But I do like playing Pig. When the slowdown gets on early the game doesn't feel like it moves too fast. But if I don't, then it does.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519759#Comment_3519759
Then I don't understand what you're asking for? It seems to be the impossible, and if the impossible isn't possible then nothing should be?
Do you want unhooked survivors teleported to the other side of the map? No wait you want teleporting hooks don't you?
Player teleporter. Not Hook teleporter, I play Executioner, a Hook teleporter won't end well.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519755#Comment_3519755
That would be an anti tunneling mechanic, and already provided by Off The Record.
I’m pretty sure the survivor is near the Hook when unhooked. I still know where they are, especially if proxycamping with respect to the new ranges dictated by the new anti-camp measure.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519748#Comment_3519748
I hope killers will have an indicator. But we'll be fine without it. They said the anti-facecamp feature will have a 16m range - exactly the same as Kindred. Any decent camper is very familiar with that distance anyways.
The returning to the hook variation is not facecamping. That's tunneling and proxy-camping. The anti-facecamp feature isn't meant to eliminate those strategies.
Then it’s merely flavor that will piss off the Killers for “getting nerfed”. While also adding “bad boy zones”.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519751#Comment_3519751
So I guess the only option is to delete those killers huh.
Or come up with a solution that also involves obscuring the whereabouts of the survivor…
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519748#Comment_3519748
You might want to ask BHVR.
You can't dismiss a solution to a problem just because "but Blight and Nurse exist". Nothing would ever get done.
Yes you can when it revolves around the concept of high mobility. Because it’s something that a lot of players like, going fast. I could have included Wesker and his Bound. Spirit. Or range, like Huntress with a good line of sight.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519728#Comment_3519728
My suggestion?
This is the system BHVR have said is coming later this year. I just inserted some values into it.
Besides with the values I used, none of what you said would be true. If you weren't within the zones for the entirety of the hook state, aka actually facecamping, you would have nothing to worry about.
How do you know you’re not in the zones, will there be an indicator? You for certain will be for a little bit right after Hooking the survivor, will there be a grace period, or should you play hotfoot?
And how would you then address the resulting complaints of getting camped by blights or nurses who just tunnel off hook, or Killers who return to the hook periodically once they see a survivor coming with the understanding that the buildup is now slowed?
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8: By detaching directed intent from the eldritch force, you provide a lot more narrative leeway for worldbuilding.
If the eldritch force only manages The Trials because that’s what it wants and is focused on, and that’s all, then everything unrelated to The Trials isn’t canon, and people can be weird about that.
But if the eldritch force is much more esoteric, like just feeding off of the concept of fear, then you could even say that Hooked On You is canon, as the eldritch being is feeding both on the fear of rejection, and the fear of possible death. And it’s world is a result of the concept of infinite possibilities.
And in the same world space the Trials would be handled by some kind of unhinged observer that’s orchestrating and influencing how they’re setup for some goal.
All in all this detachment allows for more storytelling, compared to stating that there is only one canon way the story should be told, The Trials.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519116#Comment_3519116
You'll still get facecamped and tunneled out, just now it'll take the bubba (in theory) a few seconds longer...
This is still much better than it is currently.
What happens currently when you get facecamped? You hang there completely passively with nothing to do for 120 seconds, not partaking in any gameplay, then you die. Or, you give up and Bubba eliminates someone in a matter of seconds, lets say around 20 by the time you realise you're getting camped and take your chances and give up.
What would happen? Is that after 59 seconds of hanging on the hook, you get to play again guaranteed. You get to run for around 10-60 seconds depending on how long you manage to stay up. Even if you go straight back on the hook, you then get the chance to do it again in another 59 seconds. You've now occupied the killer for between 140 and 240 seconds instead of between 20 and 120 seconds. You've scored two lots of unhook BP scores plus extra chase time, and given your team mates enough time to repair more gens. You've been given and incentive to stay in the game instead of giving up, and achieved more for it.
So basically, it introduces a complicated mechanic whereby everyone has to know exactly how far away they are from the hook in order to get information on how close the survivor is to unhooking themselves.
The whole idea of it having two graduated zones is so it's not easy to 'game' the system. No one is going to be noting when they're 10 and 16 meters away from the hook, and looping a killer directly above/below a hook on a 2-floor map is going to be very situational and easily avoided by the killer.
A much BETTER solution, would be one that makes camping completely impossible for example, my proposed solution is actually a fix for both tunneling and camping:
Why do people keep suggesting shared hook states? This would be awful, it would promote tunnelling even more.
Just as a bad survivor can feed a Myers his stalk, every game would just be bad survivors feeding the killer the whole teams shared hook states until everyone is suddenly on death hook without ever having been hooked once.
I don't know where you got the idea that 'allowing the killer to tunnel the same person even more' would somehow 'prevent tunnelling'.
So your suggestion is to create esoteric “punishment zones” for the Killer, that aren’t easily understood or noticed, to instill an underlying bias that they cannot stay near survivors once they’re hooked. Just so survivors can preferably at minimum maximize hook economy, and at most gain a time efficiency advantage without any effort whatsoever on their part, while not addressing proxy camping, high mobility Killers, chokepoints, patrol routes in relation to generators remaining, or map elevation?
An unclear, passive, AoE based mechanic that promotes Killer uncertainty/anxiety over approaching a hooked survivor is not what I think would help the game, nor would it introduce any novelty.
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@SAF3TYRA1LS said:
6- I mean trials are canon right? So maybe? Is there even a canon ending for trials?
8- Ask the entity. Cosmetics clearly have descriptions saying how they got there.
Sorry for my uneducated barging in, correct me if I'm wrong on any of these
6: IMO, the Trials we play are cannon in the sense that these matchups are possible, duplicates and whatnot, given the reach of the underlying force being multiversal. Same with the endings. The player acting as a kind of Observer, viewing these memories that match up with our inputs.
8: To which I say, are you talking about the being that decided to distribute those clothes, or the thing that made it possible for those clothes to exist in the first place? My opinion is that there is an eldritch force that makes all this possible, and then whatever or whomever that ascribes intent over some of what that eldritch thing is capable of.
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508733#Comment_3508733
- the entity is sentient and intelligent, it feeds on memories of horror because fear is the most delicious emotion to it
- what does this prove?
- again, what point does this prove?
- this is just straight up not true. the Entity is both the Trials and the Realms. it is every pallet, generator, wall, and window.
- again, there are not two Entities. the Mad Architect isnt even a real character and has never been mentioned even a single time.
- you dont need this stupid explanation to prove that trials are canon. they already are which is proven by actual lore.
- what does this even mean?
- we literally have in game cosmetics with descriptions describing how they were created from memories and given by the Entity
- what does the Black Vale have to do with this?
- the Dredge being created by Stamper doesnt prove anything about your point. its already been established that anybody can manipulate Auric Energy, its just that the Entity is so incredibly powerful that nobody else is able to manipulate the Cells that it has
1-4: If the entity is sentient and intelligent in ways we understand, why does it allow any of its own power to be used by others? Why does it have excess or unneeded zones between Trials if it actively controls and is involved with all aspects of itself? Why can it be avoided by others inside of its own realm, or even have dissenters if it can wipe and implant memories?
5: Architect/Designer. Whichever.
6: Just to clarify, a 4 Leon Trial is canon?
7: This is only relevant from the viewpoint that the entity in control/design of the Trials is manipulating a subset of something larger.
8: Why would the entity even want to give cosmetics in the first place, why waste the effort?
9: Why let others leverage your power?
10: What is the underlying force that allows Auric energy to do this stuff in the first place? This force is what I consider the actual Entity.
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3505875#Comment_3505875
i have read the archives. and you're wrong about several things there.
"feeds off fears of those in other universes" wrong, it only takes memories from those it captures
"miasma of jumbled and digested memories" wrong. even outside of the trials (aka the Lost Realms) each realm still holds together and doesnt completely collapse into random garbage.
and for whatever that last point is which i cant even attempt to understand. the Entity created the trials. the Mad Designer doesnt do anything even close to that. they write stories about killers and survivors in other universes and design the masquerade outfits.
the proof of the Entity being in charge is literally so obvious, the entire game is full of evidence. in the tutorial "the voices" tell you to hook survivors for the Entity. and the perk Whispers is stated to be the voice of the Entity. if it had nothing to do with the trials, why would it be encouraging Killers to partake? when you dont get enough hooks, the entity is Displeased. why would it care if its not running the trials? why would it torture trapper and others into doing its work if it doesnt run the trials? why would it influence the Legion or Artist their entire lives if it didnt want them to be killers in the trials that it runs? why would it give killers cosmetics (the Bloodstained Sack DLC is stated to have literally dropped sack of outfits from the sky for the killers, legion bunny outfits have the same explanation). why would it literally create the Minotaur directly out of the memories of some survivors?
i could list every single game mechanic and random bit of lore that proves you wrong, but it would take hours.
If it fed on memories without any preference, why is horror such a persistent theme?
The Trials literally collapse after they finish, and the end-game screens all show the characters walking through black fog.
Most characters describe walking through a black mist.
More importantly, I’m talking from the viewpoint that there are two “Entities”. One calling itself The Entity, orchestrating the Trials we experience, gathering power from these sacrifices.
And then there is the Eldritch dimensional being/universe that is the core for these events and happenings in the first place.
This Entity, is infinite in scale. It works off of the multiverse. I’d even warrant The Trials we play are canon.
One is the Apple that falls from a tree, and the other is the gravity causing it to fall.
You keep asking about a why, looking for a reason for things like why cosmetics appear, I posit that there is no reason, simply the happenstance from the literal chaos that is an infinite pool of memories being twisted and churned on universal scales.
Cultists worshiping the encroachment of this eldritch force, or inhabitants of the fog reaching into other universes where the veil is thinnest, or most catalyzing.
You seem so focused on the Trials but forget that The Dredge was created by Otto Stamper through experimentation with this force. The house of Arkham, the Observers Tower, if you’re so focused on reasons, why is that allowed?
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I don’t think so. At most I’d think they make people that die on Hook more likely to queue with others that leave the game/afk.
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485695#Comment_3485695
no, everything in the trials is being designed by the Entity itself. in a meta way, you could think of BHVR as the Entity, choosing how the maps are created and how the powers work.
but everyone else here has it just about correct. the Entity places down the pallets, windows, loops, gens, exit gates etc. so that survivors keep thinking that they can actually get out of there. feeding on emotion and whatnot. and the Entity isnt really biased to one side or the other lorewise, even though there are a lot of Killer perks and mechanics that summon the entity to block gens/windows/exit gate, survivors are capable of using these powers as well
Have you read the archives?
The entity is a dimension of memories that feeds off the fears of those in other universes. Being a universe made of living memory, the memories of those it feeds on slosh around the miasma of jumbled and 'digested' memories/emotion. Effectively being a chaotic hellscape.
The Trials are a subset, with structure, and whose structure can be approached via the idea of infinity a la the Library of Babel, or through directed intent, ironically also part of the approach when considering the Library of Babel.
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Chasing every trend just makes a product the same as others. I like that DBD tries to stick to a theme with its aesthetic: grim.
Freddy Krueger flossing may fit in Fortnite, but if you want that, go play Fortnite.
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I’m surprised it wasn’t released for the anniversary. Though that may speak of a focus on refinement.
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He has no map presence.
- Rites of Judgement Torment Trails can be countered by Crouching outside of chase.
- Rites of Judgement Torment Trails duration is too short.
- (Have you noticed no one has mentioned using Rites of Judgement as a pre-placement tool outside of immediate chase?)
His anti-loop is situational
- While holding Rites of Judgement, its movespeed simply allows you to zone the Survivor out of safety in a loop without even needing to try Punishment of the Damned.
- Without Aura Reading Perks, even with Killer Instinct from the Survivor running over a Torment Trail, any fancy plays through walls are guesses.
- Outside of an animation lock the propogation speed and telegraph gives Survivors a lot of room to dodge. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the only purpose of Punishment of the Damned is to damage Survivors.
- Punishment of the damned only interacts with Survivors when it connects. It doesn't Break Pallets/Gens/Walls nor does it lay down Torment Trails. It is only for Damaging Survivors, and has decent counterplay outside of animation locks.
His Cages promote Tunneling and hyper-proxy camping.
- With an understanding of cage spawn mechanics, you can learn where the Survivor will likely be caged, and head over there.
- When understanding cage spawn mechanics, you can juggle the Caged Survivor mutliple times.
His Cages can work against him
- Always spawning at the farthest spawn point could allow Survivors to quickly rescue and reset
People say that he feels clunky to use, and he kinda does. But thematically I think that fits with the personification of guilt, when using your Power it should feel sluggish, like a great weight is upon you, but using this Power creates hindering hazards for those you're here to punish.
But the payoff for it, is kinda lackluster at the moment. Punishment of the Damned doesn't feel very.. punchy. Almost too snappy imo.
If I were to change him I'd experiment with the following:
- Make him move slower while channeling Rites of Judgement.
- Massively increase the Duration of Torment Trails created by Rites of Judgement.
- Make Torment Trails Hinder Survivors when Walked over.
- Cause Torment Trails crouched over by Survivors disapate shortly after.
- Have Punishment of the Damned lay down short-lived Torment Trails (not creating restricted Trails so they're not created under a Hooked Survivor)
- Have Punishment of the Damned Break Dropped Pallets and Breakable Walls, as well as starting regression on Generators if it hits one (Though the gen could be an addon).
- Cause the Cage of Atonement to have more erratic spawn patterns.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501762#Comment_3501762
I agree, if Huntress Lullaby wasn't a hex. I feel like a new player would be able to cleanse a hex totem. Especially since you get a notification of the hex as soon as you do a single skill check at the start of the game. You know what's coming and it takes time to build up by hooking survivors. Plenty of time for someone to find and cleanse the hex.
The reasoning that it shouldn’t be an issue because it should have been cleansed already ignores the Killers attempts to pressure Survivors away from the hex, through downs, zoning, and support Perks like Undying.
Though don’t get me wrong, I still don’t like the RNG nature of Hex placement.
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The Terror Radius is surprisingly good at preventing terror with the amount of heads-up it gives survivors.
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Huntress Lullaby buffed an unengaging aspect of her Power that acts as a noob stomper in part of gameplay that would see the Survivor get Killed immediately if too successful.
Allowing Perks to impact these skillchecks would simply lead to builds focused on just forcing Survivors to fail them for a headpop, circumventing other gameplay.
The limits of skillcheck difficulty on the jigsaw boxes should remain curated with pros and cons with addons, not through Perks.
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@Tsonka said:
Yes, some are clear, others not so much. You can read the descriptions, but doing it in game and understanding what you are doing and how to do it is something else.
For example I purchased The Singularity and spent a few rounds trying to figure out Bipods and slip streaming. I had no real intention of chasing down Survivors, only figure out how the Killer operated ... Those rounds had to be no fun for the Survivors, and I felt I got nowhere because I only attached a pod to one person and that was by accident
You can also play Bot matches. Load up a K(ill) Y(our) F(riends) lobby by clicking on Custom Game and then click on the + Icons to fill up the Survivor rosters with at least one Survivor (Choosing only two Bot will have the match progress more slowly, but do NOT select only one Survivor, otherwise The Hatch will always spawn with the Bot looking for it). And then start the match.
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If I recall correctly you can use your cursor to hover over the Power Icon and it should provide a description of how your Power Works. (Where you select addons, hover over the Icon to the left).
You can also view their Power Descriptions and more detailed information on the respective Killers wiki page.
If you learn better through visual aids then there is always YouTube.
There are no in-game tutorials for Killer Powers (yet). The Trappers tutorial is more of an introduction to DBD gameplay as a whole.
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While thematically I like the idea of all RBT’s starting on Survivors, the gameplay suggestion you’ve provided seems far too rigid and over saturates interaction with the Jigsaw Boxes and RBTs to a point of monotony.
It also provides way too much slowdown if The Pig manages to juggle generators for a bit (made easier now there are defined “everyone deal with your hats” sections), potentially quintupling the Slowdown provided. It will at minimum triple it while also removing the time needed to place Traps in the first place.
I think her RBT design is in a good place.
However, of the largest pain points for pig is getting that first down to place an RBT.
So I can see changes to her dash occurring, but I’d honestly approach that by buffing Ambush/Crouch related addons exclusively, and not basekit changes (so there is opportunity cost from not choosing RBT addons, and not every pig just plays with amped Ambushes).
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Aight, so stop going for a 4K. Go for 12 Hooks.
You need to let go of the concept of needing to "win", but then you can focus on the chases themselves more, and in this case MMR will help you have less stressful matches. If you play giving yourself the hardest handicap by setting the hardest goal (12 Hooks), not only do you yourself understand that this goal is unlikely, but because you're chasing it in order to get a 4K, that is also the effort MMR will equalize for you having a 4K to begin with. And any lesser effort will reap greater rewards (In this case less stressful gameplay)
Ergo, play casual and get casual matches.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495409#Comment_3495409
"Pig's slowdown is more or less passive"
I disagree very much. It's passive if the Pig is playing Pig incorrectly, and that's not getting nearly the potential value they could be getting from them if playing actively. It's a lot of macro play with understanding where survivors are on gens and boxes and split pressuring them. You create enough backup on the traps that they start making misplays. The traps also allow you to play an early 1v3 or 1v2 to multipressure. It's lots of juggling, which is what the new Sadako is as well. The new Sadako is more intense juggling than Pig I would say though. Takes more skill and fast paced.
The spam teleporting on Sadako only does so much, you do still need to commit to hits, even if it's not downs for the people holding tapes. So she will have to play loops as a basic m1 with nothing else.
That's not what I mean. It's passive in that you don't have to work for the slowdown once you put on the RBT. You can certainly work with it, but it's self-contained, independent. Which is why it creates the pseudo 1v3 and 1v2 in the first place.
Sadako's isn't. If you're not using the Teleport as much as you can, you're losing out on condemned and giving Survivors more chances to take the tape. Because Condemned is tied to her using the teleport.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495372#Comment_3495372
"That's dependent on a Survivors ability to get a tape in the first place. Given they need to compete against Sadako and other Survivors to grab a tape to prevent condem from stacking."
I feel like even with her 10 second cooldown there are plenty of tv's available to be able to grab one, especially at the start as soon as they all turn on.
"And if her tapes aren't acting as slowdown at all, then there's another problem in that they're not acting as slowdown in in the first place."
This is why I'd want her Iri Tape base kit for extra slow down.
"I'll need to try out Sadako. I've enjoyed playing Pig, so I wonder how much of a similarity there will be."
They're actually very similar now. Pig is my current main. All about the macro game play with juggling and less of the micro.
Hmm. It's not seeming the same.
Pig's slowdown is more or less passive. And hey, a Survivor might get unlucky or path incorrectly and you get a headpop. Or you can interject and track that Survivor on the box, but it comes at a detriment to your slowdown on other Survivors if you haven't placed all of your RBT's. But you still interact with Hooks and multiple chases over the course of the match.
With Sadako, at least with the match I just played, you have to actively teleport the whole time and forgo chases almost entirely, just teleporting the whole time to get condemned as fast as possible and to limit the number of TV's Survivors can interact with. Got a 4K with only 1 Hook (closed hatch and wasn't going to let the Survivor through the Exit Gates accidentally by teleporting). Though it was RPD, and mobility is a premium there.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3495340#Comment_3495340
Here's the thing, the better you are at looping and chases, the less slow down the tapes are causing.
Also I'm not finding Onryo matches to be lasting longer than any other normal games to where the attrition is any different than average.
That's dependent on a Survivors ability to get a tape in the first place. Given they need to compete against Sadako and other Survivors to grab a tape to prevent condem from stacking.
And if her tapes aren't acting as slowdown at all, then there's another problem in that they're not acting as slowdown in in the first place.
I'll need to try out Sadako. I've enjoyed playing Pig, so I wonder how much of a similarity there will be.
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@Blueberry said:
I mean at the end of the day this entire play style fails if you know how to loop. She's an m1 killer with no anti-loop. Unless the players are bad they shouldn't be getting chain slugged that easy. Bad players should be punished.
Depends on how much slowdown the tapes cause.
Every player is a bad player in a deadzone caused by pallet attrition.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494883#Comment_3494883
I rarely play survivor and if I do the killer is usually Wesker or Nurse so I was confused watching them play. All they did was run around looking for active TVs until they got condemned and eventually mori'd.
Is it a big deal to find/keep the tapes?
So apparently you can only receive a tape from an active TV, and you can’t grab one from a turned off TV. So at the start of the game survivors need to run to an active TV to grab a tape, and Sadako needs to spam her teleport as much as possible to turn TV’s off where she thinks survivors are. Taking a tape also turns off a TV, so that means even fewer opportunities for a survivor to grab a tape if The Onryo is spamming her teleport as soon as it’s off cooldown, primarily where she thinks the survivors might be to prevent them from grabbing a tape.
essentially meaning Sadako is no longer playing a game about hooks, and just about spamming teleports to build condem and hitting survivors that look like they’re carrying a tape, but still spamming teleport even while chasing to keep TV’s turned off so other survivors can’t grab a tape.
For whatever reason I thought you could grab a tape from a turned off TV. That is not the case, and means that survivors do not know where a turned on TV is, and Sadako can herself turn TV’s off to prevent a Survivor from grabbing a tape, with the introduction of now mapwide condem whenever she turns off a TV herself.
She can basically disable her own counterplay by ignoring Survivors and prioritizing teleport spam, since teleporting disables counterplay for a given TV, while building up her instakill.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3494474#Comment_3494474
You are free to look down if you wish to look down when vaulting for immersion sake. I don't want to do it.
Im busy killing survivors instead of worrying if my immersion when vaulting is good. And yes ofc bHVR trying to control my vison gets in the way. All I ask is for bHVR to stop getting things in the way of my ability to Observe the world I kill survivors in, Thanks.
Oh, thought you were talking about looking to the left/right.
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@Emeal said:
I don't know why bHVR has such a big interest in making it as uncomfortable to play Killer, how our vision must be forced in certain ways. How about you let Killers control their own vision and stop making forced vision animations for the game? Just an idea.
No. Not for Loop-based interactable objects where camera angle provides counterplay. In these cases the camera follows the object you interacted with, at the very least providing a connection between action and the camera movement.
The on-hit lookdown was stupid because to actually provide any benefit in open ground it would have to be as significant as Nurse or Legion Lookdown, and Survivors already got the on-hit speed boost which they could use for distance to break line of sight with terrain.
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By having other Generators in reserve.
Go for the down, accept that generator as being lost, and put a hat on the guy you chase. They'll have to deal with the hat when it activates, and, should you encounter the same scenario, one of those survivors is now playing with their hat instead of a gen.
You're not preventing Survivors from completing Gens altogether, and that should never be a possibility. They will get completed during the match. You're trying to interrupt, hook, and sacrifice them before they escape. Perks can temporarily delay progress on a generator, but they should never allow you to stop progress indefinitely.
Same with Survivor and eventually going down. They should never be able to perpetually perform a loop that the Killer cannot overcome.
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There is a 500 Auric Cell package. The Character alone costs just 500 Auric Cells. There is no underpricing to force overbuying. It's just an annoying extra step.
Is it obfuscating the cheaper option? Yes.
Is it a moneygrab scheme that cannot be opted out from? No.
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I wonder what the IRL response time it takes for a person to experience pain to then scream.
Could they have made it frame perfect to the Survivor getting impaled on the Hook?
Haven't seen it yet.
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@Gandor said:
So u didn't notice the other survivor that literally had to be at most 8m away from you? Or are you hard tunneling so much, that you didn't care for free hit?
Comms can coordinate where the Survivor should go, such as bringing the Killer near a Gen that’s about to be completed, utilizing its nearby resources while it’s completed, and in the event they get downed, they get picked back up and both Survivors are still technically healthy to get to other loops.
For optimal use in regards to prolonging the first chase of the game it’ll take a lot of coordination, but it also just creates annoying loops if survivors just chain the effect in a SWF not taking the game seriously.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
why? buckle up and FTP are anti camp slug perks. they're suppose make slugging less effective.
Slugging is leaving a survivor in the dying state and going elsewhere. Entering the dying state after getting hit is not he Survivor being slugged.
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492300#Comment_3492300
You support console-only queues? I am actually shocked, finally a based viewpoint
We have console only queues, turn off crossplay.
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@CakeDuty said:
I can see 3 possible solutions for 3 genning. These are just my initial ideas and could be unbalanced
1. Move progress to another gen.
Once 1 gen is left and if the game has gone on for x amount of time and survivors have done combined 1 total generators out of the last 3, the entity switches the progress between one the last 3 generators and one that's been finished.
This way survivors still gotta work for it and can't just hide until the generators switch.
2. Regression cap
When there's 1 gen left, a regression cap activates. Once a gen reaches 25, 50 and 75% completion, a normal kick and missed skillchecks can't regress further than that. (Imo) Ruin, Pop, Pain Res etc can still beat the regression cap
3. Pre endgame collapse
Once the match has gone on for 25 minutes (cus no match should be longer than 30 min), a pre endgame collapse should begin. A timer will begin to count down till the gates get automatically powered. Could be a timer of 1 to 2 minutes, the auras of all survivors will be revealed to the killer during this countdown (to avoid survivors getting free escapes from just hiding), the aura of survivors disappear once in chase and comes back once out of chase. Killers break pallets faster and recover from stuns faster. Once the gamer runs out, gates become automatically powered and the game continues as normal.
So survivors can't just hide the timer out, but that timer becomes a test of skill and killers get a temporary buff.
Just some random ideas, so survivors can get themselves out of 3 gen scenarios, but still have to work for it.
I like the regression cap idea, it's simple. Quick and easy.
In fact having this cap on generators at all points during the match might be a benefit for SoloQ play, negating occurrences where a Survivor gets a gen nearly done, gets chased off but can't call out which generator it is, and it regresses all the way to 0% after the Killer regresses it. Probably would really help low MMR Survivors as well. (Though I might not let Perks allow regression to go past a threshold, or rather I'd convert perks into interacting with the Threshold, eg: Pop and Pain res will chunk a threshold, Pop once per Gen, and Pain res add some additional effect.)
Would really want to have a lot of Killer QoL or at least interesting gameplay mechanics introduced alongside it though.
It really sucks how Survivors get to progressively complete their objectives, but Killers when playing "fair" complete 0/4 of their objectives until nearly the end of the match. And if a "well balanced" match, they should only get 2/4 of their Objectives done with little fanfair, but Survivors get to have a whole show after completing their Generators.
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@Xernoton said:
After seeing their most recent "balance changes" I honestly dread it. They said they didn't want this to affect 3 gens that were created by accident. But I have my doubts that this will be possible.
I reckon it will be something like extra repair speed.
Oh. Oh no. They're trying to police intention if they go that route.
That is RIPE for false positive/negatives.
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One method I can think of at the moment:
Old Car Battery - Item
An Old Car Battery and connecting cables coiled in the handle. Seems dead, with an odd crimson rust. Found in The Basement.
While carrying the Battery, you have the “Siphon Power” prompt when near a Powered generator.
This prompt has the Survivor connect the cables on the battery to the Powered Generator, causing an explosion on the generator and regressing it completely, alerting the Killer, but causing the Old Car Battery to become a Charged Battery.
The Charged Battery gives the “Jump Start” prompt when near an unpowered generator, which when performed via the same animation above, will instantly complete the Generator.
Getting hit while holding the battery will cause it to drop. Carrying the Battery will Hinder the Survivor.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489173#Comment_3489173
If you're suggesting that there's a chance the completely random backfill has coincidentally succeeded in a close MMR match up. Lol
No, what I’m saying is that you think it looks like a backfill, as evidence by your assertion that it is one. When you are not certain, and as a result simply add to the problem by causing another backfill in the event that you were wrong about it being a backfill in the first place.
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@XimaXNL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3489718#Comment_3489718
Interesting thoughts, thanks for the reply.
1: Yeah the solo Q could work then if the names are hidden, I agree. Else they would have enough time to find each other. It's about making it really difficult to find each other outside the game. If they would introduce this game mode with reworked perks, since some of the perks are OP when playing without communications.
2: Based on your first answer, I would agree here that if 1 mode becomes the most popular, the second would have a harder time. Maybe the third option would be the most ideal mode to shake things up.
Furthermore, what are your thoughts of voice chat (whole map or radius around you)?
For voice chat, I base this on a friend who has already been nearly banned from PSN chat for shittalking Killers/Players they didn’t like:
Assuming only between Survivors:
”Hey dickcheese, get out of the Locker and unhook me”
”stop throwing and get on a gen”
etc. etc. not to mention more racist stuff you’d probably find from the younger more volatile generation.
And now BHVR needs to implement voice log records in order to actually address harassment as well.
And if it its between the Survivors and Killer as well:
”Get Palleted/Flashlighted biotch”
”Your mother probably didn’t love you as a kid”
”*hard R*”
Some people just love to get under peoples skin.
Trust me, I’d love integrated chat, especially between Killer/Survivor because it’d be so cool to hear a Survivor gasp when you get that sneaky pickup.
But odds are it’s just going to make the game absolutely more toxic.
Players needing to be willing to reach out to others and connect via third parties acts as a fantastic filter. You don’t bash your friends too bad. But a stranger?
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Well now I’m confused on their Perk/Power ideology given that Skull Merchants addons impact skillchecks generated by Perks.
While the RNG of the Overcharge skillcheck is where its position is, the 1s delay is enough warning to prepare to try and hit even the closest one. This should be anticipated in the event that the generator looks to be regressing against a Killer using it, even in the event that the skill-check notification is suppressed due to her Shotgun Speakers addon. However I can see the annoyance in repeated application in quick succession when the last generators are only in a small zone. Could warrant a cooldown.
However her Oppression skillcheck isn’t predictable when under the effect of the Shotgun Speakers Addon.
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- SoloQ: This will not stop the competitively minded from from linking a discord link in PC chat. Or clicking on a a players name to access their player profile if they’re on the same console. Profiles would need to be hidden until match start, and even then you’d still probably have people trying to bypass that in more efficient ways. Separate balance between these modes as an upfront cost could be even more wasted effort if it doesn’t pan out. This mode likely draws in more Killers given it looks like a more even playing field, while omitting any player looking to play as a group.
- SWF: A SWF mode that also isn’t a SWF mode given you can SoloQ into it. That might get confusing while also siphoning more survivors away from the SoloQ mode. It’s also going to have the lowest Killer population while also having the most volatile combinations of survivor MMR. This will make it even worse regarding queue time and any form of skill balance, likely bleeding more Killers out of this game mode over time, further impacting queue and lobby health. Once again, separate balance between these modes could be wasted effort.
- This seems to be the only new game mode you have suggested, the rest were player filters for the most part and an integrated comms system, but no fundamental change to gameplay. With a randomizer you need to adapt your playstyle to what Perks you’re given to take advantage of them. That could be interesting.
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Auric Puncture - A slow moving distortion of condensed auric energy. (Visualize a small black hole effect that moves). Walking into it disperses that energy into whomever walked into it. Killers become Undetectable for 80s, Survivors gain Endurance for 20s.
Though that seems more event-like.
But I’d be interested in something that Survivors need to find that doesn’t have a set spawn point, so they need to do a bit of hunting for it.
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@Seraphor said:
Generally I'll dodge any time I'm backfilled. The matchmaking already screwed up, I'm fixing it.
Or you’re making a pattern out of nothing and adding to the problem.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487898#Comment_3487898
Not really getting what you mean by counterplay being in the open. The point of his ability from what I understood was anti-loop, so yeah ofc it's bad in an open area, that's why you don't use it there. Because you're supposed to use it at pallets an windows. Kind of like Huntress hatchets.
The thing that would make it feel better is if they added add-ons that delayed the warning that appears to survivors or making an Iri that removes it all together. Since atm his add-ons are bad.
His power can also hit multiple survivors so it cannot be body blocked in cramped spaces.
As in, given it can go through walls, every survivor is effectively “in the open”. There is no guaranteed inherent counterplay like Line of Sight (apart from slopes, but that seems more like a technical issue, and drops, but that isn’t available everywhere) so the counterplay has to be baked into how the Power performs the damage. In this case it’s the warning, as well as the propagation delay, as the counterplay should be possible while in an open area.
Personally, I’d like if like Huntress, you could charge PotD for a faster, longer, shot that has less counterplay at the expense of movement and provides more opportunity for skillshots if predicting movement through walls, and a quick PotD that is best used for loops but slower and shorter.
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The Torment Trails he places don’t feel impactful to place, as oftentimes they’ll dissipate before you can chase a Survivor into them, and any slowdown they add through a Survivor crouching through them is rarely seen by you. Their only purpose is to apply Torment. Kind of bland.
It’s cool that Survivors can crouch over them to avoid Torment and Killer Instinct, but it means that it’s just something else that is variably effective that is already time-limited.
Punishment of the Damned ignores walls (Line of sight blockers) and can be held while still moving, so counterplay assumes that the Survivor is always in the open and running away, by giving them enough warning of where the attack will land and taking time to travel over the point at a distance. Making distant hits more reliable only when the Survivor is anim-locked, as has been mentioned already.