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Rough Concept:
Myers/Ghostface/Dredge/PigCan stalk like Myers, but also able to lean around taller obstacles to stalk like Ghostface, and is undetectable in some manner (Maybe by entering and exiting special lockers they can teleport around the map like the dredge, this resets an Undetectable state that is lost when entering chase with a survivor/using the upcoming ability). The eyes shining with more intensity as they're stalking, successfully stalking survivors builds a bar. Attacking while stalking will cause them to begin to charge an attack like the Pigs Dash. Upon fully charging (and while still holding the attack button) they will start a Pig dash with a distance based on how much bar they had. Releasing the Attack button ends the dash early and will refund part of the bar that would have been unconsumed based on distance traveled.
Survivors can spend time to barricade the special lockers, which will cause the Killer to lose the undetectable state immediately if they teleport to that locker or just cause a localized (directionally global? for SoloQ?) noise notification that lets survivors nearby know the Killer is there.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798618#Comment_3798618
please no. the m/s reduce already feels clunky. bat is a good spot. i was playing dracula like this with bat form mostly. previous version was really hard to use effectively with the cooldown. now he has really good transform game-flow between bat form and vampire form. only his wolf form could be a little better.
Spirit with 2 cooldown add-on is around 10 second cooldown. I believe she is little bit faster than him and has a bit more information on survivor's positions. Bat-form at loops is at best 50/50 mindgame but a lot of survivors like… won't drop the pallet till you exit form and can stand in positions where they're next to a vault while also being tricky to track. there is counter-play.
We'll have to see how he performs in comp, but I'm a bit concerned at how oppressive bat form can be to mitigate tools the survivors use to gain distance in chase.
While it's not like you can swap in and out of bat form for easy hits at loops, it's great at making up the distance a survivor gains if you choose to break a pallet/they use a haste-based perk even in a successful manner and you end up quickly back on them again like nothing happened just following their scratch marks they left behind.
If we're talking about information, at lower levels, Survivors might not think to go slow and steady if bat form is approaching, and those scratch marks are as plain as day, informing you that a Survivor is nearby even without listening to their footsteaps. And that increased mobility can allow Bat form to gain information at an increased pace about leftover scratchmarks that unaware Survivors leave behind while they run under the assumption that Killer was farther away. As the increased speed from bat form increases the rate that you're able to parse more environmental information simply by moving through the environment faster.
Maybe if bat form didn't see scratch marks, but triggered Killer instinct within a small radius. It would be better suited as a mobility tool, and being more jukeable if used in chases. (And also overcoming the hardware gap a player might experience if they're not using a great headset/have hearing issues). -
Exiting Bat form having a greater slowdown/"landing" would probably be the best choice (also perhaps suppression of basic attacks immediately out of it for half a second or two with accompanying animation visuals indicating that a basic attack isn't ready (perhaps with the hand lowered out of sight then raised when ready).
The smoothness of switching between forms right now on demand is really buttery and I like it.
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Apologies, didn't include full context: the "Claim Rewards" Banner for rift progression must also be present (but is not present if you have claimed rewards).
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Ironically this sentiment is what I would agree with, were someone to give reasons to change Mori's, even though I do not agree with their removal (as it shoehorns the Mori specifically to the end of the match without the use of Devour Hope/Myers).
As it is functionally a 5th perk revolving around time-efficiency. -
Still a bit skeptical of the trigger conditions for the final Mori (given the offerings were redesigned, and I’m unsure how they were made obsolete in the first place, Ivory and Ebony both had the unique feature of letting you perform a Mori before the match has ended, and Ebony enabling multiple), as a “balanced” match might not see the Killer getting one (though that might be incentive for the player to play another round). Of course you could try to curate it by slugging and pushing out other survivors to isolate the last remaining survivor. Though no more Mori parties with survivors t-bagging around during the animation. (At least without the use of a Perk). I do like that it’s keeping its “dynamic placement” and the player having the choice to hook if for whatever reason they wanted to, not railroading the sequence, but instead acting like a Cypress Mori.
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@Ohyakno said:
This is actually really cool. Like killers have a spooky flashlight searching around.
"As their hearts beat faster, its connection grows stronger"
wait dang nvm, the killer is undetectable.
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The same is true for entering a lobby match when paired with opponents. The archive pop-out opens, and the ready button is covered.
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Human form is strong anti-loop
Doggo is info/speed (and speed is only being added due to the cognitive dissonance players have when thinking about animals and how they're typically faster than your average human). To be frank I don't know why they added a pounce except for thematic reasons the devs felt would cause more cognitive dissonance (or they added it because of their own cognitive dissonance/bias). They should keep the doggo pounce though.
Bat is mobility. I don't know why Doggo has Killer instinct and not Bat. (srsly, why make a hardware disadvantage again like they did with spirit, give KI in a small radius so you don't have to be reliant on headphones, and also goes with the audio but not visual theme).
Hug tech for doggo is not intended, nor should it be kept, as human form is the anti-loop. -
@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793256#Comment_3793256
losing on purpose isn’t “not playing sweaty” that’s just losing on purpose.
It amazes me how many killers think if a survivor brings DS DH etc. they are always “sweaty” and how many survivor think a killer getting more then 1 kill is “sweaty”
Winning a game isn’t playing “sweaty” bringing full gen regression/progression builds and rushing to end the match as fast as possible is sweaty.
I shouldn’t be forced to lose on purpose just to have fun in the game, that’s not how any game should be made.
Getting 2+ kills dose not make you competitive 😂 if I bring backpack bubba (RIP old space Billy) and not hook anyone until I down everyone with starstruck because everyone ran into me that’s not being competitive that’s running a meme build that worked.
Being competitive is defined as: “having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others”
Your intent isn't what's being recorded, it's the result, as the result is generally what is impacting the experience of other players.
Unfortunately, 2+ kills is what the current MMR seems to see as a "winning/stalemate condition". And as such, those who hit that mark are deemed to have been competitively successful for a match. Even if it's a meme build, it's a build that worked, ergo: "sweat".
And while by definition of the system I'm "losing", I heartily enjoy going for 8 Hooks 1 Kill as my resulting lobbies allow me to be more of a director of action: I can try for jumpscares, what I think are cinematic moments for players/myself, tense gameplay for them, etc.: creating an atmosphere (which is what I find fun). Without needing to be tethered to the clock or perfecting time efficiency in order to be able to waste time on such endeavors.The devs should take a look at why people want kills even if they're not "competitive".
Frankly, I'd like to see what the community reaction would be to a game mode where there were no hooks (or if there are it will instantly sacrifice the survivor), the Killer can Mori a dying survivor whenever, there's basekit infinite Unbreakable, killed survivors respawn, Killer gets a lot of bloodpoints for Mori'ing a survivor, and survivors get a decent chunk of bloodpoints for destroying Totems that periodically randomly respawn around the map (also Totems can now spawn in glyph spawns, bloodpoints probably given to nearby survivors too, but not globally). Game ends after a certain period of time. Pallets could possibly respawn, breaking Totems could possibly do something extra too (gameplay wise) and actualy probably just use glyphs instead of totems to avoid animation issues/terrain clipping.
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Stop playing sweaty.
2 Hook everyone. Bring Rancor. Mori the Obsession at the end for some flair. Let the other three escape.
If that's too difficult, keep trying (and losing) until your losses accumulate to the point your MMR tanks to that level. Works for me.
If it's too easy, just whiff and miss attacks/farm, try to give the impression of trying but failing. You'll maintain/lower your MMR further until it's mind-numbingly easy at which point meme around or stomp for a few rounds if you want a challenge.
If your "funny builds" involve remaining competitive and getting 2+ kills, guess what, you'll be put in competitive lobbies. -
Idealistically DBD should provide the horror setting, and any character should be able to be tossed into the game and it'd make sense, as it's just that character in a "horrifying environment".
That being said, DBD gameplay with multiple hours into it certainly plays more like an action game than a horror game.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741312#Comment_3741312
It definitely depends on what killer you play, like any other mode. The hook thing feels more like a quality of life than a super OP thing.
But yeah sure. First cool unique mechanic we've seen in a while. Get rid of it. Why not.
Nearly all Killers have standardized hook play, same speed, same powers, same considerations.
Skipping it allows that time saved to be used to leverage their strengths, and on the stronger killers there's a more noticeable effect as that time not spent doing hook stuff is now replaced with their power use, etc. (This is just "Best case scenario" where nothing else other than moving to hook can happen)A more balanced approach rather than simply removing it would be power suppression for a duration after use.
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Can it be achieved in a KYF lobby?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731830#Comment_3731830
We could just change the visuals so they match with what is possible, instead of removing the techs because they don't fit the visuals…
I don't know what you mean with that ideas? Oni can already slowdown by left right strafing…
I'm always up for fine polishing stuff, but I don't want those techs removed without giving something of equal worth instead, otherwise we just dumb down killers and remove their depth.
Yeah, visuals should match what is possible, though in blight's case not having any kind of movement slowdown prior to a hard flick would need to be a mechanical change, not simply visual.
In Oni's case, does it make sense to slow down by wiggling your movement? Or is it just accepted because that's what is available? Why can't you slow down/speed up via forwards/backwards input?
I like depth, but there's a difference between utilizing mechanics together for a better result, and utilizing mechanics to bypass existing mechanics.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731114#Comment_3731114
Without those mechanics all 3 would be terrible killers because their powers would be super easy to dodge... On Blight the shoulder flick is basically required because side stepping is way to easy to do without it and it completely negates that you basically used bump logic correctly to hit them otherwise.
If Onis demon dash is not his main power to get a down then he is just like a Myers with mobility and a bigger lunge, which would also make him a terrible killer.
Curving is what enables Billy's gameplay... You want to have Billy just back revving or what?
I have to say I don't think it makes sense to remove any of those 3 as those mechanics are what gives depth to the characters and how to play them as well as play against them.
By consistent you mean that it is not a 100% guaranteed method to avoid the hit? If that was a thing that would be horrible, how are you going to outplay the survivor if they have a guaranteed way to always avoid the hit no matter what you do?
So your solution is to simply be content with the powers as they are now instead of improving them such that they have visual and physical consistency with their animations and basic physical assumptions for players? Like making blight able to cut a rush short without a bounce, giving Oni the ability to adjust turning speed by lowering their sprint speed (by holding the backwards movement key) without having to perform angle stuff, giving billy a short window of high turn freedom before accelerating faster and restricting movement, or making it so that Wesker doesn't dash with survivors once hit and instead immediately decelerates while unrestricting camera movement and following up with a throw?
When I mean consistency, I mean the power able to standalone perform the kinds of things you'd expect the power to be able to do "naturally". Flicks and curves all ignore momentum and as such are not visually well telegraphed to players and ultimately just makes it feel cheap.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730502#Comment_3730502
I fail to see what you mean in the first paragraph... Blight is basically required to flick, otherwise you could easily side step his rush if he could not flick? Same goes for Oni?
And how exactly does Billy's curve bypass something? The curving is what makes out his chase potential...
Wesker might hit the survivor but it removes the survivor option to position themselves In a way where they cannot be thrown at a wall normally... So would it somewhat still count by your logic?
That side-step is part of the counter-play of the power which a flick bypasses. Blight's speed/bounce is what should be doing the heavy lifting by cutting survivors off and getting to survivors with good bounces, not also 90 deg flicks to hit over windows you were perpendicular to during a rush. If flicks are a necessity, then the base power needs work.
Oni's demon dash is a mobility tool used to take advantage of information quickly, cut off survivors, patrol quickly, and it has some use as an insta-down tool should a survivor be unlucky. But Demon Dash becoming a primary chase tool leveraging sliding and camera angles to prevent bumps to increase speed in LT walls while still being an instadown is frankly BS.
Billy's curve bypasses that linear motion associated with his sprint to get tight curves in areas a survivor might otherwise think that the killer wouldn't be able to hit.
All three of the above involve manipulation of the base power itself to avoid counterplay revolving around the power. Making the counter-play inconsistent with its presentation, and ultimately more esoteric and annoying to learn.
Wesker's eurobend may be a bit problematic, but the counterplay to the ability prior is mostly consistent and the throw fits with the theme of "The Mastermind". Frankly it could become basekit with a bit of polish for all I care.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729380#Comment_3729380
Just because something was not intended does not mean it is not a good addition to the game... Looping was not an intended mechanic, Hillbilly curving was not an intended mechanic. Eurobend on wesker was not an intended mechanic, got removed, everybody wanted it back and it got reintroduced basically immediately after. Saying something should be removed because it was not intended is just not a proper argument, you didn't want to create it, but maybe it is a good addition to the character, so why remove it?
Blight's, Oni's, (even Wesker's) and Hillbilly's slide/flick techs are all utilizing their map traversal power in ways to be incredibly mobile and lethal at the same time while bypassing the chase design restraints on that portion of their power (bounces and turning angle, turning angle and wind-up and closeness, rev time,) with little trade-off, while also just being the same normal loop gameplay just with hit faster at loops.
Euro-bend Wesker still requires the Killer to hit with their power normally, before taking into account their surroundings and where to throw the survivor, is relatively easy to perform with any hardware and setup, and thematically ties into how the power is used: finding an angle.
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TCM is fun at first, when you’re not familiar with the game and learning how to play it, everything is new and interesting because you’ve never seen it before.
Once that period is over though it’s a lot shallower than you’d initially believe. Few maps with little variation. Slow movement, instakills or absolute tank survivors, limited character possibilities with their license and map design, and a huge incentive to rush with little stealth otherwise getting killed as survivor due to grandpa and increased lockdown by the family.
I will say that they do have the edge in varied objectives, but the gameplay surrounding them is kinda meh.
On a side note if graphics are a concern, DBD updated its engine to UE5 (which is friggin monumental), and that will facilitate much better graphics going forward. You can use the new maps dungeon as an example.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725831#Comment_3725831
I'm aware of how it works I just don't think it matters very much. The MMR is already rather loose and either you go against a worse killer which okay easy game, it's even coll, or you get a good killer which can be a learning experience of you they ever want to actually get better.
I swear all this complaining about MMR wouldn't even be a problem if people focused on getting better instead of excuse fishing for when they lose and I mean that for both sides.
Well then, why don't we help people focus on getting better by reducing the fish in the pond.
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@Yharwick said:
You can't damage a game that hasn't happened yet it's not exactly the same thing.
I'm also quite confused about the fact that everyone talks about what a bad thing SBMM is for DBD but then constantly complains about it either not working or people doing things that they think effect it so it feels like people actually do want SBMM? I don't quite get it.
Survivors that have had their lobbies dodged by the Killer already have a longer queue time than normal, so their matchmaking range gets expanded to expedite matchmaking. This means you get more skilled survivors against less skilled killers more often. This causes increased burnout for newer killers, and negatively impacts the killer pool.
At least unless they've changed anything with how backfilling works.
So yes, killers that cherry-pick lobbies are damaging future games. I'm surprised they don't have a soft-ban like League does with multiple sequential lobby declines, if not simply to ward against bot spam who would cause an issue in the other direction: low MMR bot accounts causing newer survivors to go against harder killers.
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"If it bleeds, we can kill it"
From a thematic point of view, something you can defeat, that you can kill, immediately becomes less scary than before. There's a sense of security in that something is mortal and can be removed. If you've ever played any of the Deadspace games, the Ubermorph is always something tense that you have to navigate around, because it just keeps following you and doesn't stop. That is until you hit a certain point. And upon further playthroughs it becomes a blitz to reach that point. Kinda like what it would become in DBD were it an option, the only win is to kill the Killer and to min-max reaching this goal.
If you play killer to the point that you're against good survivors, you also know the game can be constantly demanding even to reach a few kills, whereas survivor has periodic downtime and split responsibility. As a Survivor, getting moried by the Killer also can feel thematic, and you can even use the excuse that others are to blame for you getting killed. Though tossing in a mechanic where the thematic script is flipped because the killer did so poorly is going to cause more burnout than before, especially if it's something that's quite literally in their face, ala performing a Mori on the Killer.
And in terms of toxicity, I don't like Killers slugging people out of spite (and hope that gets addressed at some point), and I have no doubt that Survivors would likely end up doing the same kind of hitting with their "Killer mechanic" too.
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If you're talking about numerical tweaks, undoubtedly there will be some as part of live balance as noted in this PTB.
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Most I think they could do without creating any hostage scenarios is make it so that the Killer can break a Switch to prevent it from being used, but also causing the Hatch to open permanently. Could be used to cut off survivor you know would escape with just a hit (such as a healthy survivor), and the survivor still has the option to find hatch. (And thematically matches with a slasher villain closing the door of a house to stop an escape route). Thought that would probably end up with some killers just camping switches…?
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Well, recently they ported the game into UE5, now it's a matter of upgrading assets, learning new methods/tools and utilizing them with that engine, and integrating things into the game over time up until they can release it all at once so there's little mismatch between assets. (And don't forget they had to try to make as much of the game's code work as possible when porting it over to UE5 too, so it has been in constant development)
It'll probably be a while. (Though we may see bits and pieces of it on the PTS that don't get shipped with the upcoming release)
But I'm glad they didn't do DBD2 and start from scratch with UE5.
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Well, they tried to introduce a "surrender" option a while back (for survivors): If everyone was in the dying state the Killer automatically performed a Mori on the last Survivor downed in a cinematic fashion and the game ended.
Of course that meant that it heavily rewarded slugging play, skipping hooks entirely and kinda made the game seem a bit "on-rails", and the community didn't like it.
BHVR might have mistakenly taken that as a hint to not include a surrender option entirely.
I do hope that they include a "surrender" option, but not something that gives a reward for trying to curate a "surrender" forcing playstyle like a Mori or Bloodpoints, nor one that adds automatic mechanics that removes a players ability for agency or that introduces sudden viewpoint shifts that detach the player from their character.
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The least-intrusive way I can think of hatch being added during a win-scenario for survivors (without needed communication) is:
Hatch also appears (closed) once both Exit Gates have been opened (not powered).
And Blood Warden also gains the effect:
- During this effect the Hatch is closed (if open), and blocked.
Just having hatch appear when gens are completed potentially removes a lot of gameplay regarding the Exit Gates as its providing an escape option prior to the "main path" escape option.
By further restricting it to both Exit Gates being opened, you introduce an additional requirement past the "main path" escape option, requiring additional effort, but potentially allowing a larger selection of positional options after an escape option has been given. Perhaps introducing situational gameplay during the end-game camp scenario, and/or giving survivors going for a challenge a "guaranteed" method of spawning hatch without need for communication to other players that they need to leave.
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I don’t like the idea of introducing variable state mechanics at the games behest with no obvious connection to gameplay (how would a new player know what scratch marks are, how they’re placed) in order to counteract a gameplay style.
I still don’t like the implementation of the anti-camp feature.
(I still don’t like how Hooking survivors doesn’t seem to provide a personal benefit over outright killing them).
A large boon for tunneling is, yes, that you know where a survivor is off the hook, and if you’re a stealth killer, that the survivor doesn’t know exactly where you are.
Just suppressing everything may help some, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Killer can still use intuition and or get lucky, on top of now making the survivor feel like they’re in a very gamified state, not something that flows naturally.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662908#Comment_3662908
"I feel like I’ve had to work hard to convince my friends this game isn’t as bad as it is. But the lie can only carry so far."
And this is why BHVR should really work on this. New player retention is abysmal, even to our friends lol.
The irony is that trying to get your friends to play by playing with them is counterproductive given your MMR likely brings you into a vastly higher skill bracket than they should be.
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Tunneling in DBD is widely considered chasing the same survivor after they have been hooked. As they’re likely in a dead zone caused by their chase, are Injured, their skill level has been evaluated, their location known, and are a step closer to death compared to others.
Tunneling is not going for the first survivor you see.
You might be conflating it with the non-DBD metaphor Tunnel Vision: A lack of perspective caused by the intense focus on a singular object leading to the neglection of surroundings.
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Time-limited never returning battle passes are poor practice:
- The date of expiry is set, progression is a set constant, but each individual players availability is variable.
- Players with too little availability may simply not engage with the battlepass or become frustrated at an inability to reach a goal dictated by forces outside their control.
- Players with too much availability unlock it too quickly, and the retention from a feeling of progress is lost just as quickly.
- Once expired and removed that is content that future players cannot engage with, a loss of possible player retention.
It would not surprise me if rifts become permanent at some point.
They already have a decent model with the Tomes.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662205#Comment_3662205
Bro just say you don't like playing with people who NEED accessibility to have a chance at an even field
I like playing on an even field. And that’s what MMR should provide.
To me this issue seems niche enough whose (likely) solution changes far too much of chase:
Nearby scratch marks are no longer needed, nor their suppression useful.
Blood pools have even less purpose.
Loud noises suppression or manipulation no longer has a use (see locker perks, quick and quiet).
Nearby aura reveals are no longer effective.
Line of sight is no longer a form of counterplay in tall loops.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662186#Comment_3662186
I find Trickster and Huntress to not be an issue, as they are really big, the killer is 40 m away so what, however the smaller lullyby of Sadako basically ruins her stealth.
Yeah Sadako is a weird one.
The smaller the lullaby range, the more it becomes a locator like closer distances escalating TR music.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662163#Comment_3662163
Games are allowed to have accessibility changes, even if they affect game balance.
The whole point of accessibility, is that the changes are made for the greater good, and the game can be rebalanced afterwards if needed.
You know the "Greater Good" argument is about majority benefit at the detriment of a minority?
Contradictory to the change you want, which shifts the majority of player chases to be more deterministic with a 3D world-space Survivor tracker, ultimately causing the player to disengage with environmental clues and their interpretation of them by only following the "quest marker", for the benefit of a minority.
A minority whom should be in an MMR range where that accessibility limitation is mitigated by their opponents skill, still providing a good selection of matches. The Killer role is designed around being able to end chases quickly, not hunting Injured Survivors in perpetuity, Survivors are likely already conditioned that the Killer can hear them and thus unable to capitalize well on an opponent they don't know can't hear them perfectly.
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You’re not expected, nor is matchmaking designed, for you to get a 4K every match.
You can curate your MMR to some degree by sticking to a playstyle: if you only go for 12 hooks your MMR will settle around you averaging 2-3 Kills that way.
But any deviation from that (such as caving back to tunneling in a match that was imbalanced) will set you back to a more meta gameplay MMR.
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The Heartbeat is a directionless audio effect designed to be heard with audible clarity. It adds to the atmosphere of the game “The Killer is coming, run/hide. You’ll need to hunt for the Survivors”. And whose skillful comprehension is simple: do I hear it or not. A UI element that turns on and off based on the presence of the heartbeat is simple.
Breathing/footstep audio is a different beast. It’s a directional audio effect requiring spatial reasoning to estimate the source. It’s inconsistent and can be drowned out by chase music and ability use, significantly modified by materials stepped on and distance. Skillful comprehension of this is more about competitive play, not simply entry. It and things like scratch marks/blood adds to the atmosphere of the game through a lack of precision allowing survivors the possibility to escape a chase through erratic movement.
This UI element would not be simple. And equating it to The Heartbeat is disingenuous.
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If digital live-service FOMO goods didn't amount to database table entries being checked as yes/no I might give them more respect.
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@Green_Sliche said:
You have a bleedout timer for that.
If you believe the game is over for you, alt tab your game and do something else. It will be over by the time you come back.
Creates a positive for Killers that perform "negative player engagement behavior" from giving them increased lethality from slugging. Rather see a form of self-pickup in edge-cases so that disengaging with players is a negative and pivots players to at least dribbling to cause a drop stun.
@Scarletprince15 said:
If you do penalty for this, can we make penalty for survivors that wait until the end of the timer on the exits when there's nobody in danger? Or maybe even better; permit the killer to give up once the doors are open.
Being able to close the gates once open could allow for interesting strategies and rages. Necessitating the Hatch to be opened without closure once closed to prevent softlocks.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658678#Comment_3658678
Just out of curiosity, why do you think BHVR wants the kill rate to be 60%?
Thematics. "Final Girl".
They're (we're) just cucked atm where the killed survivors do literally nothing and cant "cheer on" the "final girl" when dead.
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A 50% killrate will typically lead to the path of least resistance.
Given that tunneling is the path of least resistance at the moment, do you want the game balanced around 4 Hook games where only 1 Survivor is targeted and the rest are relegated to gen duty?
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PotD applying Torment to Healthy Survivors. (Not Injured. So no Off-hook/Cage/Tunneling shots and gives you a choice of going for a Healthy PotD hit or to take an easy M1)
PotD Breaking Pallets/Breakable Walls.
Torment Trails Hinder for the duration of Killer Instinct.
Survivors suffer from Deep Wounds when hit with PotD.
Hooking a Tormented Survivor shows the Obsessions Aura for 6s.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654484#Comment_3654484
Giving the survivor more time leads to the kill becoming a non threat. Right now, Pig can force survivors into making hard decisions. With these changes, i see these decisions gone, because the survivor will simply have enough time to do anything they need to do. Heck, they could maybe even work on gens if the trap they have is 2 searches or lower.
I dont think i have to go into why 10 seconds more or less are such a huge difference, when the tempered timer exists, do i?
I agree that with too much time it can become a non-threat, potentially allowing Survivors to consolidate when they all start searching reducing the time pig has a constant 1v3.
If they know they have two searches or lower it's still relatively irrelevant with the current time.
And if they have up to four searches, the more they get interrupted by Pig when they could have been searching, the more likely they spend more time having to navigate from hook/chase escape to their next box, and Pig also knows their next relative location. At least I'm pretty sure Survivors cannot interact with the same box again. (Brain is flatlining atm).
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654478#Comment_3654478
I agree! I dont like the changes to her aura one bit. Both the timer increase and the removal of the auras are the wrong nerfs.
What don't you like about the timer increase?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654438#Comment_3654438
I agree, but then are not these interruptions targeted?
The best nerfs in my opinion are these:
- survivors cannot die to the timer running out while searching a jigsaw box
- survivors are not interrupted by screaming while searching a jigsaw box
This adresses the short interrupting. The Pig has to commit. Screaming also would not work. The 30 seconds more are not necessary and just give the survivors more room for mistakes. These mistakes, by the way, only come into play when the box takes 4 searches. Even 3 are usually not a threat.
I'm fine with the extra time, I don't think interruptions should cause the RBT to straight up kill a survivor with little investment.
I just don't like the Jigsaw Box Aura removal for Pig.
At least for my playstyle its a QoL nerf for when I've hooked someone else and see the RBT'ed Survivor still hasn't taken off their active trap, I'd patrol Boxes if I thought they might be nearby for another down. Now I don't have the Box Auras as a guide like I do with Generators. I can still do it, but it's going to require more map memorization.
It's not like removing the Jigsaw Box Aura is going to stop a Pig player from hardcore following a survivor off of hook. Nor address that her RBT's aren't the cause for tunneling in the first place: it's a universally good strategy at the moment, it just so happens that Pig quite literally can put the first RBT on the prime tunneling candidate - the first down.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653311#Comment_3653311
Why is it that smart killer gameplay is considered harassment or scummy? The killer always wants the exact opposite of what survivors want. If they want to be left alone when taking care of the RBT, then it's only natural for the killer to pressure them away from the boxes. A killer has just much a right to play around their power as a survivors has as long as it doesn't involve exploits. And this is not an exploit.
The real value of RBTs wasn't the 144+ seconds of slowdown because they were even stronger than that. A good Pig player can make survivors stop progressing completely, if only for a brief time. That guy with an active trap has to take care of that. They don't have the time to come for an unhook, heal, search a chest, get chased away from traps and still get the trap off, if they have 4 searches. This will no longer be the case. 30 seconds more time is enough to take any kill pressure away. Meaning, they have no reason not to participate in normal gameplay during that time. It's worse when you consider that the Pig can no longer play around their power either. It's still a 1v4 even with an active trap in play. I don't know how that doesn't make her slowdown mechanic weaker.
There is no nerf here... unless you're a Pig who harrasses a trapped survivor to force a head pop.
In other words: Just don't use her power to its max potential. What about Pinhead's box, would it be a nerf, if he couldn't pick it up himself anymore? Surely not. It's only a nerf, if you do that. Or Sadako's codemned moris, would it be a nerf if you couldn't kill survivors with it but it would give you simple slowdown instead? Only if you used it to get kills. Pig needs to do even more to get this kind of pressure. She first needs a down. As a M1 killer with only a mediocre chase power.
Good killer gameplay is using literally everything in your power to build pressure. So you could also say: It's not a nerf, if you play bad. But if you play bad, then you should lose the match. This argument is a complete slippery slope.
There is a difference between tunneling one survivor and giving them so many side objectives that they simply cannot do them all. You don't need to tunnel to get head pops. Strategic gameplay can be enough. If the trapped survivor has a million different things to do all at once, then they get dangerously close to dying. Now push them away from the boxes once or twice and they die. Pig is too weak in chase to win all of her games by hooks. No matter how good the Pig player is, they are still limited by her mechanics. They can't fly, no matter how good they play and they can't use their ambush around connected loops because survivors simply leave.
Given Perks are not supposed to interact with Killer Powers, yes, using things like Perks that cause a Survivor to Scream, interrupting and resetting a Jigsaw Box search is technically a bug, an exploit. Not sure why this hasn't been addressed yet.
RBT's are designed to provide slowdown, with the threat of lethality as a reason to do the Boxes, with Pig leveraging that slowdown to allow time for her stealth to allow early hits and to brute force tough loops to get downs.
Bypassing the need for chases and stealth through forcing a headpop by simply interrupting that survivor once or twice is smart, but not engaging for the Survivor who now skips hooks and chases that would have otherwise been engaging.
That's not good design.
I do want to point out though that I'm not against Pig players interrupting Survivors searching Jigsaw boxes, so long as it leads to chases that can also be engaging, an unease of not knowing if the Pig will pop out of nowhere. And it is fun using the knowledge of the Jigsaw Box locations to modify your patrol routes based on current RBT status (I'm against the Aura suppression). However simple harassment with no commitment should not be most effective.
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I don't mind the changes to Ambush much, but I find it distasteful that it's becoming just another in-chase Power. Very same-old-same-old.
Not going to complain about the crouch QoL.
But I don't like losing the Box Aura's. It's nice being able to incorporate them into patrols in the moment if you notice UI changes and/or get a feeling for where a RBT'ed Survivor might have gone while you've been elsewhere.
That may be scummy, but it's nice leveraging intuition and map knowledge for an easier down. Though I wish that RBTs weren't literally required to be placed on survivors that have just been focused already.
And it's not like a lack of Aura's will stop Pigs that follow RBT'ed survivors.
I don't care for Headpops as a result of running the timer down. The 3min isn't much of a concern for me. If people want headpops they can rally for a mini-mori of some sort, tampering is Amanda's thing after all.
Screaming interrupting Search needs to go. I don't know why it hasn't yet given it's contradictory with their "Perks don't impact Powers" philosophy.
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Instead of ideas of just making Kindred base-kit, how about:
Let the Hooked Survivor look at another Survivors Aura(s) to give them a notification that they should come unhook them.
Makes being Hooked a little more engaging and doesn't require immersion breaking with wallhacks.
"The steadily waning gaze of a decaying survivor sends chills down the spine of those whom they look towards: Survivors looked at this way hear the Whispers of the Entity and the edges of their view share a similar fog" + Add Whispers sound/visual effect to Survivors on Hook as well
This could also be expanded upon for a new Perk type: Amp survivors you're looking at while Hooked. Not great while winning, but can help when losing.
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A map-sourced method of self-healing to mitigate uncoordinated movement that is otherwise a coordinated collapse onto a point via comms.
Comms are still likely to be faster overall with movement time saved and positioning near objectives, but at least if someone is aimlessly running around they can stumble on a method to heal themselves and not just get downed due to a lack of not finding anyone.
Like being able to choose (scavenge) basic Items from a Chest.
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She can still patrol her Boxes.
It's just not hand-fed information so it's part of a "Skill-ceiling" and not something new players get right out of the gate with other new players.
And she can now better pop up to spank a survivor given a faster stealth patrol.
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@aerie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639320#Comment_3639320
punishing people with accessibility issues because "they're the minority" is such an awful and gross mentality. of course people use the new fov slider for the slight advantage but why do people with accessibility issues have to have a disadvantage just because people min max advantage on this game??? like i'm so tired of this mentality. i'm SO sick of it. you're lucky the moderation here is oversensitive because i'm trying so hard rn to be civil but i'm so grossed out you're filling my replies with this kind of stuff and i'm grossed out that you're even allowed to say it. people with accessibility issues getting told to just deal with this stuff because they're the minority is such a harmful approach and is why people are afraid to ask for more accessibility stuff, because of people like you shunning them for being in a minority
Keep it simple: If a survivor is in your FoV with a Flashlight, they can blind you. Easy to understand with no additional strings attached like "How close are they to the static viewing angle flashlights are based off of"?