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Those'll be some juice scourge hooks/Boons. And healing will probably be pretty quick.
Probably too many effects that players are unaware of/haven't played enough of, and it's information overload.
Fun concept though. Would be interesting to see what actually would happen.
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How about:
For every 8 seconds spent in chase, gain a token, up to an amount. (Token progress is saved, similar to Stake Out).
The next time you kick a Generator, consume all tokens, regressing the generator by an additional amount based on the number of Tokens consumed.
For anyone that says this is backwards as it punishes short chases, yes. That is the point. This would be more useable on Killers/Players that typically have longer chases. (And it's a Killer Perk, so it punishing survivors that have long chases is also the point).
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@Royval said:
survivors shouldn’t get things like this for free how about you can pick yourself up after lasting the longest in chase.
@Ohyakno said:
This is just basekit unbreakable and yet another thing killers have to worry about
Hmm, if we're going for the spirit of "No free handouts", maybe Killers should be reverted to their old state, being unable to kick generators without the use of Perks? That way the basekit Gen kick action wouldn't step on the toes of Perks anymore, as Perks would be the only method of causing a regression event, and Survivors would have one less thing to worry about?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805270#Comment_3805270
I don't know that it would be a hangup for BHVR. They're bringing in FNAF after all
Perhaps, but IMO Homelander is kinda just a pathetic dude.
Got power, sure, but he uses it in a kind of unintelligent hedonistic manner.
Fear of him is just your generic: This thing can kill me at its whim.
If it's just for the licensing $$$, sure. People do like superhuman abilities (especially flight/strength). I just think that as a character he'd be bland af (Though the actor portrays him phenomenally).
Personally the only thing that would interest me in such a chapter is the mechanical implementation of his "Power"/Perks.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804037#Comment_3804037
Yes, and there's literally no one to unhook them if all 4 are down. So hook them and end the game faster.
The only reason not to is toxic behavior. It's either spite, pettiness, or a power trip to just bleed out 4 people.
Letting survivors speed up bleeding out doesn't in any way change that the killer won the game. It just limits the toxicity and hastens the end of the game.
There's zero reason not to include this feature.
Ah, I had slightly misunderstood stood the last sentence of your post.
Yeah, that has been a suggestion before: Let survivors let go/sacrifice themselves, sometime with the suggestion that they do so while under a hook/bleedout is faster under hook.
Not against it myself. But at the same time I think it could be pivoted into letting survivors climb up the hook/use it as a "crutch" to stand up.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Base kit unbreakable has always been a terrible idea.
Slugging is unfortunately sometimes necessary, but excessive slugging isn't. There's zero reason to slug all 4 survivors until bleed out, for example.
Just allow survivors who have been slugged until the "find help" stage to let go on the ground and go next.
If you slug all 4 survivors you've won. It's a win condition like Hooking all Survivors. And eschews the need to carry survivors to hook or hook them multiple times. And survivors conveniently can't immediately perform "unhooks" because the other survivor needs to recover.
Sometimes fun to see if you can do it: Healing reduction perks, Instadown perks/Killer, with a Killer you're decent at. Just keep slugging and repeatedly slugging and circling back to slugged survivors to check if they're being "rescued" from slug.
Remember doing it myself with Ghostie couple years back. I'm certainly not too skilled, so the survivors I faced weren't able to counter it well.
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I picked that as something up on higher priority just as a general: If the DBD art team thinks that some character models need to be improved, they should focus on that as part of an overall aesthetic upgrade over some other things.
But it seems that follow-up question is for if players themselves believe there are any specific character that in urgent need of a visual upgrade. Probably to serve as an alert.
(So I went back and placed character model improvement as a lower priority as I couldn't readily think of any character who needed a visual upgrade).
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Based off of old Tomes, newer tomes, a spotty memory, playing The Casting of Frank Stone, and somewhat off-the-cuff headcanon:
Some spoilers for TCOFS
THE VOID
The spider-like entity we're familiar with, is not the whole of the system. The whole system is Auric Energy. Effectively a conceptual zeitgeist: the mood and spirit of all Horror, over all time. Its own dimension straddling the Omniverse like an invasive thought, not only like an idea, but a tangible force, though initially detached inside its own Realm from auric universes.
This conceptual zeitgeist is drawn to horror inside the Omniverse. The thoughts and the memories related to it, those leading up to it and during horrific moments. The more horrific/prolonged the scenario, the more that Auric Energy can bleed into a reality. Up until it forms a breach and its "Realm" begins to seep through.
Auric energy has the rather unique property to outside observers in that it seemingly creates matter out of thought. Though that would be incorrect. As it's more that thoughts from auric beings permeate the nearby auric energy, forming a "conceptual auric scaffold" that thoughts and memories of nearby auric energy of a similar kind can adhere to. Not comprised of matter, but thought, auric energy.
But this is not a guarantee: The nearby Auric energy may not be comprised of any of the thoughts or memories associated with that scaffold. Or, there may be such a predominantly existing pool of auric energy of another kind that it has sporadically formed its own scaffold, and is much less prone to manipulation from other auric sources.
Near anything is possible in this realm, this void of all sense. But the auric energy itself has a predilection towards forming more fearful things within The Void.
So what happens when this void bleeds out into reality?
Its established that horrific events are the best method of drawing it out, and creating such a tear in reality. As Auric Energy is predisposed towards horror, the pool of thoughts and memories that bleed out of a tear would be horror related. And given that Auric Energy typically forms around the most common thoughts or memories, those auric scaffolds of nearby auric beings in a horror scenario will typically create the horrors envisioned/entombed (Like Frank Stone), or empower the horrors causing them. Though this is not usually a clean process. Prone to mistakes and embellishments or an outright abomination (Such as with The Dredge).
What happens when you/physical reality enters The Void?
Do those that enter suffocate from a lack of oxygen? Will they starve? What happens to the dirt? How do physical things react to a lack of, well, physics?
The Garden of Joy seems to indicate that physical objects brought into The Void no longer need abide the laws of gravity.
What happens to the Physical body hasn't been looked into too much, but the assumption would be that the conscious and the subconscious more or less causes basic physics/biological processes to continue for that auric being/body (which is why Stan seemed to still be alive inside of Frank Stone, before Frank consciously ended him). And the observations of that auric being on their surroundings would cause anything else to be grounded in "reality" based on their cognitive bias forming auric lattices. (though once again, this does not mean that the necessary energy is available to build them, and a surplus of another kind might erratically build something else).
That is The Void. The Realm. Infinite in size and possibility, leaning on Horror, but also capable of becoming absurd. The Realms and Trials we perform an an infinitesimally small part of it. Technically speaking all fanfic is cannon (unless its harmful to the community or in violation of Terms of Service).
THE ENTITY
The Entity is emergent from The Void. It's a big fish. But it's not the Pond. That would be The Void. But as The Void is infinite, so too is The Entity, in all its permutative glory (hail Enkitty).
But this is the appearance of the "Big Bad", a multitude of auric scaffolds around a strongly permeating idea of a foggy orange and blackish spider-legged being, one which is frequently associated with the act of pulling in Survivors and Killers into "Trials" and whose followers idolization perpetuates that concept, if not simply being that black fog is the most easily associated concept with the fear of the unknown. And spider legs just because of creepy crawlies.
It could demand blood sacrifice. One could demand a high stakes dating sim (never played that though so not sure about its lore implications). Another a sacrificial mouse. Or a well-balanced game.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803622#Comment_3803622
Was really surprised to read this. if the feedback was positive, why BHVR suddenly decided the game isnt commercially viable?
My guess is they say what happened with Concord. Pure speculation but maybe they thought helldivers 2 and deep rock galactic would be too much competition.
edit : its also possibly an indicator maybe casting of frank stone isn't recieved as well as they expected. But unfortunately technical issues are a common reason for negative reviews on that game. Some people enjoyed it others didn't. So kinda mixed.Yeah.
Concord was the same as every other MOBA shooter bringing nothing new to the table and bland design.
Project T seemed like it actually could have stood out from Helldivers 2 and DRG, with a focus on vehicular travel and characters. Not to mention a Horror aesthetic, and who knows what players could do within the Entity's realm.
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Was in the playtest. Seemed promising. Don't know why they cancelled it.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803475#Comment_3803475
They are not called hiders either, bottom line is Devs made the game, they make the rules. According to Devs, survivor aim is to do gens and escape. Killers aim is get kills not only sacrifice for entity but kills in general. Sacrifice or Mori or bleed out all counts as kills. Wouldn't make sense to say the aim is only to get sacrifices when Devs are introducing basekit Mori. Avoiding the objectives while preventing the opponent from accomplishing theirs is called holding game hostage, as the survivor objective is gens untill the hatch becomes available then hiding is not only avoiding the objective but it's preventing the killer from accomplishing theirs. (Can't get kills if can't find them).
Unless the Devs make a drastic U turn on the current goals and objectives then it is what it is.
Bottom line is that yes the devs made the game and made the rules. It's a product. A form of entertainment. Mori's are more entertaining than just hooks. Keeping the match going at a decent pace is entertaining, that's why prolonged hiding is considered taking the game hostage. Bleed out can be considered a "Kill", but it's certainly not entertaining, at least for the survivors that are purposely bled out for the maximum four minutes.
Is that frequent? No (Not that I notice). Is a 1v2 Stalemate frequent? Not for me at least. Are they edge-cases that should be addressed? Yes! Could the way that they're addressed be handled in a manner to provide a base-game tool that can spice up gameplay with new player interactions? Perhaps.
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@ChaosWam said:
Plot twist, Clown skin.
But also Legion, they have that Rabbit costume already, and there are four of them aren't there, and Creepypastas?
Released with zero fanfare though IMO, just kinda find that cringe.
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@ChaosWam said:
Plot twist, Clown skin.
Hmm. Proper grime and all that, a crude clowns cheap knockoff of a teletubby for a childs birthday party wouldn't be terrible. Would fit with the elephant skin.
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Almost entirely certain that was a joke. I hope.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803435#Comment_3803435
Lol escaped how? Defeats the purpose of doing gens at all, hide the whole game and magically escape. You have just created a whole different game with a completely different premise by changing the goal of the survivor from escaping to hiding.
Well, I mean, Survivors aren't called Mechanics. And it's stated that the goal of the Killer is to Hook Survivors for the Entity. Bleeding Survivors out is kinda counter that goal. So maybe it gets uppity.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803409#Comment_3803409
I would be fine with 15min timer tbh, 2 survivors remaining, 15min timer until they are both sacrificed. Beats the 1 hour timer it currently has.
No, they wouldn't' be sacrificed, they'd have "escaped" the Killer/Killer couldn't find them and kill them.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803406#Comment_3803406
Maybe, I’m not arguing that Killers don’t get handheld. It’s just with Slugging, they’re not since they worked for it.
And when survivors hide from the Killer until server timeout they're working for it too. The killer has all the agency they need to try and find the survivors. Maybe not the tools though. But would it really be fair to deprive the survivors of that hard work with something base-kit?
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803393#Comment_3803393
Server end is not the same timer as bleed out, there is a reason why slugging isn't reportable but avoiding gens and deliberately hiding to server end time is reportable. Killers shouldn't have to go into a match fully loaded to counter a tactic that isn't even allowed.
Hmm, maybe because the server timeout is too long. Perhaps it should be shortened to something like 15min. Then it would be a more comparable timer: The Survivors managed to "hideout" the Killer. Hmm, then Survivors would have the option of "Gens or Hideout" and the Killer has the option of "Hooks or Bleedout". That might be more balanced. Maybe not fun, but balanced.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803296#Comment_3803296
I agree slugging to get 4k should go, killers shouldn't have to slug to get 4k in a match they steamrolled and hands down won. But I would disagree that slugging is stalling. Bleed out has a timer, bit longer than on hook but still has a timer. Survivors avoiding gens and hiding has no timer. It's infinite until killer finds them or server ends. If killers avoided chases and didn't slug or go for hooks then ye I would say they are intentionally stalling to get 4k by means of server end. But killers are accomplishing the objective by hooking or bleeding out.
The server ending is a timer, just an even less engaging one, much like bleeding out is relatively unengaging unless you specifically have perks for it. I could say that you should be using Whispers and stop complaining. But Perk solutions generally force a meta of necessity.
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@Leidenschaft90 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803322#Comment_3803322
Replace them with useful alternatives, make them rare in the Bloodweb or remove them completely from the game.
So, a reduction of the lower % BP increase offerings?
Anything additional that you'd want mechanically different? Like being able to bring in Glyph challenge offerings that can Grant BP/some kind of benefit for taking the time/chance to find them? Or BP Offerings that have more specific challenges tied to them as some kind of consumable Tome Challenge? (Or do you prefer the passive increases)
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What'd you want to see?
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803243#Comment_3803243
I'd say a formal forfeit would work but survivors already have the option to surrender by allowing themselves to be hooked if they want. They only don't surrender because of the hatch as an option. Which is why I'm fine with the hatch being an option so survivors have an incentive as long as there is some sort of aura reading or someway for the killer to find the survivors after a certain amount of time. I would rather give survivors incentive to surrender than give incentive to drag out a match the killer has already won tho, bots do gens. The in game advice for killers is to patrol gens as it's a good way to find survivors. If they don't do gens and hide it's incredibly difficult to find them especially on some maps.
I see it as if they acknowledge the loss then it's time to end it and move on not prolong the match because as it stands the 2 v 1 stand off is a big problem. Survivors refuse to do gens but don't like being slugged. The other option would be the killer not slug and intentionally lose the chase when they find the 3rd survivor to drag out until server end time which results in auto sacrifice.
Survivors don't like being slugged for the 4K because just like the survivors stalling (and "surviving" technically), the Killer in that case is "stalling" to get the satisfaction of more kills instead of moving the game along.
I definitely wouldn't mind the idle crow system being a little bit more oppressive if the survivors don't interact with objectives, but at the same time slugging for the 4K needs to go.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803132#Comment_3803132
To be fair players hide when it's 2 v 1 anyway, they know hatch is an option so it puts the game in a stand off position where survivors don't do gens (because what's the point?). They hide and hope the other player gets found and killed first. I don't see how removing the hatch would make this any worse because the result of removing the hatch is already happening with the hatch as an option. If anything removal of the hatch would mean there is no good reason for survivors to hide while refusing to do gens (other than to deliberately hold up the game) so might actually benefit the game.
But that also gives survivors more of an incentive to just "quit/surrender" if they feel the game is lost and there is no carrot or incentive for them to chase even in defeat. But perhaps creating a more formal forfeit mechanic is what could be better.
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Make the process of getting killed in DBD an engaging/fun affair (and perhaps add something in after being sacrificed to tide over people in a SWF if spectating is found to be too uninteresting/ you're killed first and lost out on a lot of possible bloodpoints).
A higher kill-rate/final-girl thing is a thematic thing for horror.
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Possibly restricting the base-game Mori to the Obsession (if made easier to obtain than the final Kill), such as not to saturate matches with Mori's. (But this might invite tunneling/be macro-game restrictive, possible a good thing on the latter)
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I agree with you (and starting out I had the same dissonance: words on left mean I use left input, words on right mean I use right, that isn't the case), but I also think they did that to make it looks like fangs. Ultimately after getting some muscle memory (since Wolf/Drac who can always melee is the melee key, Bat is on the left/revert to prior form) I don't need to look at the input buttons.
Maybe they could make the more prominent middle UI prompts match up with left/right inputs while keeping the less prominent power Icons shaped like a fang.
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@xBlackPanda said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800811#Comment_3800811
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800797#Comment_3800797
I think this is the only reason they would do this 😥
What was the price before? Kinda curious given I want to compare it to the Canadian/USA minimum hourly wages.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801314#Comment_3801314
I get that this defeats the purpose of this game mode at least to some degree. That's why I explained why these killers are the ones that are the most fun. You don't get any clues at all that would tell you where the survivors might be so you just run around aimlessly for the most part. Which means, that nothing happens. No interaction, no sense of urgency, nothing. That's the most boring thing that can happen in this game. Or any game for that matter. You can test this by starring at your TV for 5 minutes while it's turned off. You'll be bored and that's pretty much the same experience you have in lights out as a killer whenever you aren't in chase.
The difference between killer and survivors in this regard is, that the survivors' objective doesn't move. So once you find a gen, you can always get back to it. Not to mention, there is a sound clue to help you find gens. The killer's objective, survivors, on the other hand does move. Survivors can also hide and don't give the killer an audio clue whenever they are near.
Survivors at least have something to do when the killer isn't on their heels. The killer however doesn't. So the actual progression part of the killer gameplay is decreased and replaced with random patrols around the map, which isn't fun to anyone that knows the maps. Doing gens isn't particularly fun either but at least you are doing something.
I agree that this game mode 100% isn't for me (I haven't played any of these 3 killers) and it seems that a lot of other people feel the same way. We don't play a game to have nothing happen, so we are bored whenever that is the case.
Maybe the Red Stain could be brought to the forefront in that regard:
copy from a post I've made before
Just a spitball idea to give some ambiance/killers some tracking potential and area lighting (if needed):
Make the red stain visible to the Killer, make it an AoE red light source that emanates from them. (This AoE more like a glow than a hard light)
Maybe have it grow in size/intensity as you get near survivors? (If killer tracking ever becomes a concern in this game mode, then also disable Killer seeing Generator auras and using this as a form of tracking?)
A spotlight of faint glowing red energy that grow in intensity as you near survivors (so you patrol and watch for that glowing to intensify indicating a nearby survivor and then start searching). Possibly also making the surrounding area more interesting to watch for survivors as well.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801319#Comment_3801319
What does that have to do with what I said though? Nobody discussed the aesthetic or the ambiance. I indeed think that everybody can agree the lighting and athmosphere are sickening. The topic is allowing killer powers to work in a way that defeats the purpose of the game mode.
Uh. Well, IMO I kinda get the vibe that the entire point of the game-mode is the aesthetic and ambiance provided by the restricted lighting, environmental effects, and suppression of information/HUD? More of a claustrophobic feeling reminiscent of the darker maps prior. Probably why so few mechanical considerations were made.
Otherwise they could've just released a mode where the Killer is permanently undetectable and the HUD is disabled if "mechanics" were all this was about.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801269#Comment_3801269
The thing is that the whole point of the game mode is that, that you can't see the enemy that easily at all. If you have fun just playing info killers maybe the game mode is not for you, which is fine and alright. Imagine if survivors could have kindred, wiretap, or object of obsession. It just defeats the whole point of the game mode to have info on the enemy team and those 3 killers should not be playable there.
Well. I mean. The darkness is kinda cool looking though. As is the ambiance of the Candelabras and bats/eyes. Ignoring actual gameplay.
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Unironically Rancor is Ivory and Devour is Ebony. Just as with most perks they're something gameplay related that can be played against by the other team.
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@SkeletonDance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801173#Comment_3801173
That's a really good change, now we just need to remove map offerings 😌
I'd say that Offerings are a good tool to see the sentiment of players on what is a "good map/bad map".
Short-term, yeah maybe. Long-term, the maps should hopefully be well-designed for everyone.
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Maybe just make it so that if a Deathhook Survivor is placed/dropped under hook, they have a Mori prompt? (A tunneled survivor would still get Endurance for a chance to get away from under the hook)
Then Hook spawns/placement/terrain can be made a bit more cinematic over time?
Maybe make this only occur if a certain hook threshold is hit?
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@merri1400 said:
We need to keep pushing that the system the way it is now is perfectly fine, a lot of survivors even enjoy certain moris (especially Ghostface) or wish killers would get oooler ones. Turning them into a one time deal after a survivor stomping is what is going to breed resentment because people will feel more inclined to slug to see it, whether simply because they want to use it without bringing a certain killer or because they put on a challenge.
It's good, but It's not perfectly fine:
- People use it as a competitive tool to deny possible carry saves/shave off time.
- It restricts the Killer to a select few Offerings if they don't want to be beholden to certain Perks.
That's kind of why they want to add it as a base-mechanic without the need of an offering but making it an end-of-match option.
However the method in which they do so:
- Limits its use in a "naturally flowing game" to a stomp.
- Curating its use means slugging a survivor, or multiple survivors to ensure there is one remaining.
- Mori's can now only be done at the end of the match without the use of a Perk.
- Cannot be "Photobombed" any longer.
If you HAD TO,
How might you address these two points?
- People use it as a competitive tool to deny possible carry saves/shave off time.
- It restricts the Killer to a select few Offerings if they don't want to be beholden to certain Perks.
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Regarding other Killer powers/information powers, that is a huge issue.
Legion should not be eligible for this game mode just from a conceptual standpoint. Doctor too.
Or make it so that while holding the candelabra the Survivors are immune to Aura Reading/Killer instinct/Screams. You're more visible, but only because of the light.
Possibly make it so that Survivors holding Candelabras Show their Aura to other Survivors holding Candelabras. A kind of link that the Killer can also destroy, and more of a reason to find another Candelabra if yours is destroyed. (Maybe you don't actually see Aura's, but instead the beating heart of survivors as a ever-present low-tier terror radius effect while holding a Candelabra? Could that also be used to indicate if a survivor is in chase viewing an increased heartbeat at a distance?)
Maybe make the Candelabras more like "Darn" Freddy's Clocks:
If the Killer hits you with a Basic Attack (or just keep this trigger point to when the survivor is put in the dying state, or perhaps give the Killer a side-objective that causes the candelabra of the next survivor you injure to break?), the Candelabra falls out of your hand and is broken. A candelabra spawns on a nightstand elsewhere for you to pickup with its Aura shown to you (no need to try and find a chest in the darkness) that only you can grab (as to others is blocked by the entity/not visible)
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Played it once against a Trapper as a survivor (though I never stepped in a trap so I just played against a M1 Killer basically) so can't rightly give great feedback but:
- Because they hide the generator repair HUD I have no feeling of progress on generators as the rate of change of audio for it is rather imperceptible/smooth. (Though I like that generators start with 5% progress giving an in-game manner for survivors to learn/hear where a generator is.)
- I've never found the act of repairing generators themselves interesting. I found the dynamic of needing to avoid the killer/repair when the opportunity arises to be interesting (and I suppose some people like to be skill-check monkeys). But with no Terror radius or chase indicator that dynamic is basically non-existent now.
- Since I can't see the numbers of generators completed I further have no sense of progress
- There is no longer any tension provided by the Terror Radius, nor can I see far, other survivors, etc. so I feel isolated. Possibly a good thing, but:
- Upon getting hit out of nowhere (which is a bit of a jump to be sure, cool), I found it hard to navigate the map, just getting downed immediately.
- The Auras of the Candelabras don't take into account that this "impenetrable darkness" is a "wall" itself so if I was running to one that was out in the open (This was on Dead Dawg Saloon) its aura would disappear making it a bit annoying to navigate to efficiently. (Perhaps this is also an issue with hooked survivor auras, I don't recall if you can see a hooked survivors aura in this game mode. You should.
Keep the generator completion HUD Icon.
I'd say rework how generators are visually/audibly handled entirely by making their whole animation/audio system not so gradual and more staircase incremental to indicate % thresholds hit, but that'll probably take more work. Just add the repair bar back.
Reconsider how auras are shown to Survivors in open areas while in the darkness/outside of a light source.
Bring back the Terror Radius, not to 32m, but maybe 16m, 10m? Don't make it so easy to get the first hit off. (But also maybe there's a side-objective the Killers can participate in to gain full on undetectable until next hit)
Do something to indicate another survivor is in chase. Does the entity "twitch", is it excited with this ongoing chase? How could that be represented in the Trials audio/visuals? (not in a HUD)
Maybe the Candelabra's could give some kind of Windows of Opportunity effect while held in chase?
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Killers should still hook survivors.
It's thematic. And the pickup/carry to hook where the Killer is "powerless" can be seeded with dynamic events such as trying to sabatoge the hook, body-block, drop a pallet, flashlight the Killer, hinder them in a last-ditch effort
What should probably change is how survivors unhook a survivor, and giving survivors tools to combat tunneling/proxying as there are dynamics with the Hook that present gameplay problems.
As it is, with a Hooked Survivor (as Killer):
- You know where another survivor will be within a period of time, as survivors have a limited window to rescue that survivor.
- You can patrol/proxy this hook in addition to nearby gens in order to cut off/discover survivors more quickly as they'll be moving to it and effectively "coming to you" instead of you "hunting them down". Making you more time-efficient on finding survivors by sticking around.
- If you're unable to find another survivor, once again the Hook serves as a place where you can expect survivors to congregate, much moreso than generators as survivors have a time-limit to reach the hook
- The surrounding area of the Hook can potentially be a deadzone, as that's likely where a chase occured.
- Since you know that the survivors will be animation locked, with AoE killers you can get a juicy double-hit in to cause the unhooked survivor to need to waste time mending while you go and down the unhooker.
- If you've hidden/masked your presence you can lull survivors into a sense of security to go rescue which you can exploit by cutting them off or getting a successful hit in while proxying the hook.
- The Unhook notification is an indicator that there are two survivors at that location, that might get players to naturally move back to it.
- The unhook notification also immediately informs you of where at least two survivors are, giving you knowledge of survivor positioning on the map that can be used when deciding on which pathways to use/navigate to cut them off at map edges.
This promotes patrolling/proxying hooks as it's a very good strategy to shave time off of hunting down survivors given you have good knowledge of an area/objective that other survivors will need to expose themselves to get to.
Now, for tunneling (as Killer):
- Because of all the time-saving methods available to you when proxying/playing around guarding a hook, it makes sense to go for the weakened survivor.
- While the survivor may have endurance, it's possible that the Hook is in a dead zone from the previous chase where pallets and the like were used, giving that survivor fewer options than a survivor at the other end of the map
- The Hooked survivor has fewer options to try and evade or gain distance from the Killer if the Killer returns to hook following their rescuer
- Being unhooked "safely" when a Killer is proxying is highly dependent on the Rescuer having an anti-tunneling perk or the unhooker having one themselves. This creates a meta out of necessity.
- That survivor is one hook stage closer to being removed from the Trial, and having the Killer reach "the pressure point of no return" in a 1v3, where one role must be cut from the Chased/Hooked/Rescuing/Repairing gameplay state as there are no longer four survivors to maintain it. Where the killer can keep up a Chase with a survivor while a survivor must rescue a hooked survivor and there is no progress being done on any gens.
All of this together means that the Killer has strong incentive to stick around a Hook because they know where a weakened survivor is, likely in an area with fewer chase resources for survivors. This is why people gravitate to camping and tunneling if they are just "playing to win", and unfortunately what the game has been balanced around, the smallest number of actions needed to get the survivors to the point of a 1v3.
Give survivors tools to circumvent the strengths of Proxying Hooks and Early Survivor Removal with a time commitment
A Hooked survivor is a fountain of survivor location information as well as the hooked survivors hook stage being a natural progression step towards the killers checkpoint of getting the first kill.
To remove the information advantage of a hooked survivor, I'd suggest letting a survivor(s) perform some kind of ritual to teleport hooked survivors to any point in the map without the Killer knowing where they were moved to, with a time investment to do so to make up for the lost opportunities the killer had to be more efficient at finding/cutting off survivors. If the Killer doesn't have a guarantee that survivors will come to the hook, they may move around the Trial in an attempt to find other survivors/prevent the ritual from completing. This in turn also gives survivors a chance to just go straight to the hook for an unhook.
To circumvent the ease as to which a Killer can snowball in a 1v3 scenario, I'd suggest letting survivors perform some kind of ritual to transfer hook stages between them, with a time investment to do so to help make up for the added chase times from "distributing hooks".
These tools would require player input to operate, not being automatic/passive system tools like the anti-camp mechanic.
Perhaps survivors can invoke the transfer of a survivor to an empty hook somehow without the Killer knowing.
Perhaps two survivors under a hook can invoke the entity to transfer stages between them.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800794#Comment_3800794
Unfortunately I think that would promote tunnelling, why would a Killer make it harder for themselves? They literally would just have to down the Survivor a fourth time. Nobody would use this, ever, unless they planned to tunnel. It's a cool idea, and thematic, but it would not do much for the Killer and would give Survivor a decent buff for nothing.
Hmm.
The goal with the 1 hook on all survivors first requirement (similar to Grim Embrace) tries to make tunneling immediately less lucrative if what you're going for is a Mori, as even if you tunnel out someone at the start, you won't be able to get a Mori. And then even if you do decide to tunnel for it, that Survivor has an extra chase.
And once you have the Survivor on Deathhook, if it's a close match you can try for the Hook, but if what you want is a Mori you can start that survivor on one more chase for the Mori.
It's intentionally trying to give survivors a buff in exchange for the Killer having a Mori, only if the Killer wants the Mori over just putting a survivor on deathhook.
It's trying to remove the meta-game min-maxing aspect of using a Mori as a final hook pickup bypass.
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Hmm.
Ukrainian minimum hourly wage seems to be
34 UAH
(USD 0.92/hour)
From google.
But the Ukrainian average minimum hourly wage seems to be
130 UAH
(USD 3.38/hour)
Maybe they bumped up the price to hit near the average?
What was the price before?
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whatcha think about this idea?
@AssortedSorting said:
I get that Mori's can be used to skip a hook stage, you put in less work and it promotes tunneling.
What if it's made to be extra work and promote interacting with all survivors to get a Mori?
If you've hooked every survivor at least once/every survivor has incurred a sacrifice stage, you can invoke a Blood Hunt on dying Deathhook Survivors:
For dying Deathhook Survivors, Blood Hunt is an option in addition to pickup for the Killer (uses the same key as Kill, and if the Survivor is able to be Killed by your Hand at the moment via a Perk/addon the Kill prompt will override it).
This will cause the Killer to perform the hatch close animation (for sake of reusing assets). The dying survivor will then be healed completely and hastened for a duration. If that survivor is put in the dying state again, they can be Killed by the Killers Hand.
"Run"Edit: The Killer should probably be rooted/prevented from performing actions for a couple of seconds so they couldn't take advantage of any insta-downs/powers/get a hit in immediately.
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@ArthurVeloso said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800280#Comment_3800280
Let’s break down each point of your argument while advocating for a substantive buff to MedKits, because the current state is overly punishing survivors without truly addressing the supposed “balance” you’re defending.
1. Reusability with Add-ons and Perks
You argue that survivors could potentially achieve 10 heals through perks like Built to Last and MedKit add-ons. Sure, in theory this could happen, but let’s be honest: how often does it actually play out like this in real games? Survivors still have to survive long enough to use all those heals, which isn’t guaranteed. High-skill killers can easily interrupt heals, down survivors quickly, and pressure the map. Also, if a survivor is wasting time stacking 10 heals instead of working on gens, they're hurting the team’s objective. Healing 10 times might sound overpowered on paper, but in reality, survivors who heal that much are usually buying time for the killer, not breaking the game.
A balanced buff would rein in this overuse without completely crippling personal healing. The nerf shouldn't be a blanket penalty; it should target excessive reusability specifically through diminishing returns on certain add-ons or perks, rather than punishing base MedKits.
2. Time Efficiency in Objectives
You mention that healing yourself takes 16 seconds compared to 32 seconds when healed by others, and argue that halving this time makes MedKits more efficient than toolboxes. But that’s the point of MedKits! They were designed to allow survivors to heal themselves efficiently when needed. Taking away that efficiency disrupts the balance between survivors and killers. Survivors already face time pressure to complete gens, unhook teammates, and avoid getting downed by killers who can apply constant map pressure.
Yes, efficient healing saved time, but that time bought was essential for keeping survivors in the game. It was a strategic choice. The current nerf, which increases self-healing times dramatically, makes MedKits feel weak and punishing. A substantive buff should restore self-healing to reasonable levels—maybe around 18-20 seconds instead of the extreme nerf we have now. It’s about balance, not removing an entire survival strategy.
3. Speed of Healing Pre-Nerf
You argue that pre-update, survivors could achieve 7-second heals with certain combinations of perks, which you claim is excessive. Sure, some extreme builds existed that allowed for faster-than-usual heals, but those were niche builds—not the baseline for most survivors. If your concern is about overly fast healing, the solution should be to tweak the perks or add-ons causing those situations, not to gut the entire MedKit system.
Furthermore, Circle of Healing provided an additional healing buff that stacked with MedKits, but Circle has already been nerfed. We’re not asking for those same pre-nerf values—we’re asking for a moderate buff to MedKits to make them viable again. A 7-second heal might be too fast, but pushing personal healing times closer to 18-20 seconds for one or two uses should be seen as a fair compromise.
4. MedKits Are Now in a Balanced Spot
You claim MedKits are now “balanced” because they provide some independence while also freeing up teammates to focus on objectives. In reality, MedKits now feel too weak and inconsistent. The nerf to personal healing has been so severe that most survivors don’t bother bringing MedKits anymore unless they’re running an altruistic build or just need one quick heal after unhook. And the faster consumption rate means even the most prepared survivors can’t rely on MedKits to save themselves when they need it most.
MedKits should strike a balance between self-sufficiency and teamwork. A substantial buff that reduces personal healing penalties and moderates consumption rates would restore their viability without tipping the scales too far in favor of survivors. After all, survivors need tools to stay in the match, and right now, MedKits don’t offer enough.
5. You Shouldn’t Be Able to Heal Yourself 10 Times
As mentioned earlier, while the theory of healing 10 times in a game sounds ridiculous, this isn’t something that happens in the majority of matches. Survivors who heal excessively usually do so at the cost of completing gens and helping their teammates, which is an inefficient way to play.
The focus should be on balancing MedKits so that survivors can heal themselves a couple of times per game effectively—not making them useless after one or two uses. A reasonable buff that reduces the harshness of the nerf would give survivors back some control over their own survival without letting them heal indefinitely.
6. Time-Saving is a Necessary Mechanic
You argue that survivors shouldn’t save 16 seconds every time they heal after a killer hits them. But consider the killer’s time efficiency. Killers can hit survivors, apply pressure, and down survivors in mere seconds. Survivors need a way to recover quickly enough to keep the game dynamic. MedKits played a key role in this time management for survivors, allowing them to heal and return to generators without sacrificing too much time.
The nerf has made this balance impossible. Now, survivors waste too much time healing, which plays into the killer’s hands too easily. A buff that reduces personal healing times, even to something like 20 seconds, would restore some of that much-needed equilibrium.
7. A Balanced Healing Speed
While 7-second heals might have been extreme, the current nerf has swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. MedKits should provide a balance of efficiency and limited use. Survivors shouldn’t be able to heal at lightning speed, but they also shouldn’t be penalized to the point of MedKits being useless.
A substantial buff should target the personal healing speed, bringing it back to a reasonable level that gives survivors enough autonomy to stay in the match without becoming overpowered. This would bring MedKits back to being a balanced and essential tool in survivors’ kits, while still allowing killers to maintain pressure.
In conclusion, while the initial intention of the nerf might have been to curb extreme use cases, BHVR has overcompensated by making MedKits almost unusable for personal healing. A reasonable buff is necessary to restore MedKits to a more balanced, functional state that lets survivors maintain a fair chance of survival without breaking the game.
Something being an essential tool is not balanced if it's to compete with other equipment selections.
That 16s saved that the other survivor no longer needs to spend healing you is not in a vacuum. That survivor could be occupying the Killer during that time, or repairing a generator, or healing another Survivor, or simply not being in the same spot healing another survivor, which would make being found by the Killer in that scenario more dangerous/wasteful of Survivors time.
It is 16s of freeform time added to another survivor on the team + whatever time spent between the two needed for moving to/collaborating with one another to start the heal.
Current Trial dynamics do not support quick self-heals as a balanced tool.
Which does suck as self-healing gives a feeling of agency.
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So what exactly do people like and dislike about Skully?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799105#Comment_3799105
Maybe if Drac just threw a freaking fireball that takes advantage of low-walls and has good range that'd have made it more unique to allow wolf to shine in close-range. But that'd have to distinguish itself from Huntress in a manner.
that would be pretty cool. i think they choose fire pillar design because it is classic castlevania attack in all those metro games. they had wolf curve around objects using the slide tech or some people call it hug tech because of blight but they removed it. i think that is fine as long you balance parameters of killer to be effective. I think wolf can still be effective power without hug tech if its # of improved even slightly.
you'll never really make good use of Hellfires range to threaten through zoning because the slight angle of the loops curve always points outward.
yes. that is what i mean. that is where wolf form's rush down speed is suppose to be good. Since dracula is pretty good with just its two forms, they might not improve wolf form. it would make his kit more well-rounded but i mean, if it killer already good, why improve it?
Oddly enough, when I look up "Hellfire Castlevania" in google, the Castelvania Wiki shows Hellfire being slower moving fireballs that move across the screen (a slower moving ranged projectile would be an interesting zoning concept). Not entirely sure which game has that as pillars.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798964#Comment_3798964
Right now bat seems to be taking on two roles: Mobility and Shift+W chase, and steps on the toes of wolf (given that I think scent orbs only spawn from running survivors, so its whole mechanic is less about information and more about chasing down survivors after you've been impeded).
the haste for wolf is to brute force strong pallets/tall wall loops down where hellfire cannot fire over. the form is relatively obvious considering that the wolf form also has base-kit pallet break for his pounce. in practice, how wolf form is suppose to work is that you use haste to try make survivor use a pallet then use pounce to either force 70/30(survivor has major advantage in dodging pounce over killer hitting it) or break the pallet, then you bat form for catch-up.
it is just that wolf form is under-powered. the haste isn't very good for forcing pallets down and pallet break is complete rubbish. the wolf is terrible for mindgames because it has penalty for walking backwards. wolf is brute force anti-loop+tracking.
let me talk about why i think wolf form is bad shift-w using this image. this logic is also why i think wesker is overrated.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H3DTGG2SBZET/image.png
The short answer is that survivors can walk around debris in such a way that you have no angle to use the wolf pounce. they can also often turn corners just before you can 2nd pounce. it is same problem that wesker has in his anti-loop. it is too easy to outplay. that is why new bat form really elevates dracula to be better killer because he has options to play around shift-w gameplay while other killers are forced into time-waste. to be fair, before bat form buffs wasn't very time efficient but his buffs made him more time efficient
bat form is shift-w chase and map mobility and dracula form is anti-bodyblock +anti-loop for low walls. bat form and vampire form do their jobs well. wolf form does its job poorly.
Just because Hellfire can't go through tall walls doesn't mean it has no use in a tall-wall loop: It's a ranged attack, which can be used to ping/zone survivors if they're in a position where they'll shortly get funneled into a narrow area or animation locked, similar but not to such a degree as Pyramid Heads zoning while holding PotD.
Though I definitely see the point of wolf being brute force in rotund larger tall wall loops with constant curves (like the rock in your description) where Hellfire won't pierce through and you'll never really make good use of Hellfires range to threaten through zoning because the slight angle of the loops curve always points outward.
This is also the issue with the Wolfs pounce, it's a straight line like Hellfire. It's not an accelerated controllable dash like Oni or something that can wrap around that object. And this is where your point of the haste being under-powered rings true and the idea of wolf being a brute-forcer of strong loops. Maybe then the Pounce should be redesigned to be better/wrap around better, only problem being it'll step on the toes of drac's low-wall anti-loop.
Maybe if Drac just threw a freaking fireball that takes advantage of low-walls and has good range that'd have made it more unique to allow wolf to shine in close-range. But that'd have to distinguish itself from Huntress in a manner.
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@Brutha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799060#Comment_3799060
True but honestly reusing powers is something I'm personally not a fan of, still a cool concept tho
If there are more/unique methods of doing it, I say go for it, this just the vibe I get from having played the first game way back when. Not sure what newer stuff could be like.
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What if:
- The Bloodweb was detached from characters and was a single size.
- This Bloodweb only containing Offerings and Event Items as its own little casino mini-game (likely with a higher BP cost for each node)
- The currently selected character gains Bloodlevel/Entropic level progress from purchases in this Bloodweb. (More like each purchase adding XP to the characters level based on the price of the node).
- Regular loadout Items could be purchased from the loadout selection screen for a given character. (Cost for each incremental rarity similar to that of the comparative chance of an items rarity in the bloodweb?)
- The bloodpoints spent here count towards the characters Bloodpoint/Entropic level. (Now more like an XP system/increase)
- Though These items are added to a general pool of items and can be accessed from every character.
- Killers purchase "Amorphic Potential" of a given rarity that will also persist across all Killers in terms of Addon count for that type.
(Though this does not address undesired items and is kinda messy)
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@Brutha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798926#Comment_3798926
Ok but why would people use Myers Ghostface Dredge and Pig if one killer pretty much has all they're powers combined?
Because they like Myers/Ghostface/Dredge and Pig as characters/their design.
And they still have more facets to their own powers (I'm using parts of them to draw parallels/give a better mental image of how the power could be structured). Such as Dredge's Nightfall and double-back, Myers being insta-down with his power (and strong addons), pigs secondary objective/delay and on-demand Undetectable, ghostfaces crouch memeing and more frequent undetectable, smaller profile, and instadown potential.
And of course unlocking their personal perks.
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This is a thought in process and not complete.
The Bloodweb is an equipment casino minigame that detracts from gameplay thanks to its cumbersome node traversal and is the only method in which to increase a characters level to acquire that characters progression unlocks (through bloodweb prestige).
A notable thing about DBD's bloodweb system is that you don't have to use the character you want to progress, in order to progress that character, as bloodpoints themselves are a general pool that can then be dumped into any other character.
The items acquired from it can only be used on the character the minigame was played on, and can create mental barriers to switching to other characters.
You can't discard/cleanup/combine/reuse items you have no interest in using that you get from the bloodweb.
Overtime the oversaturation of bloodpoints has made the rarity system from its casino nature more or less moot.
New players that get stomped each match have a hard time unlocking universal perks (and getting a foothold on perks) as they get fewer bloodpoints, though this is somewhat remedied with bloodpoint codes through social media.
Pros:
- "Floating XP" with the detachment between earning bloodpoints, and then spending it on the character you want allows you to progress any character you want with your bloodpoints earned in gameplay. (useful for target leveling a character you want the perks of, but might not have the BP offerings on compared to another character).
- An added manual step while investing your bloodpoints that has you viewing a character can give a greater sense of attachment/investment than passive XP gains.
- Bloodpoint offerings are a nice carrot to chase while you're leveling your character up if leveling a character is something that interests you.
- Limited time event offerings are a popular thing to chase inside the bloodweb.
- An infinite resource sink for bloodpoints that can assist in user retention if the bloodweb contains items of interest to the player.
Cons:
- Slow
- Time spent playing the casino minigame is time spent not playing DBD
- Oversaturation of bloodpoints decreases the "ooh shiny" acquisition of a "rare item" and ultimately undermines the bloodweb acting as an equipment casino.
- Item "rarity" works against good game balance in a PvP game.
- Items cannot be transferred/used between characters. (more of a logistics nightmare on Killers than survivors)
- Unused items cannot be repurposed if desired.
- The casino minigame itself must be played in order to progress characters/unlock perks across characters.
- The casino makes bloodpoint "number go down", working against players that may want to see "number go up".
On the topic of a Shop
Purchasing Items directly, conflicts with Bloodpoint Offerings.
Purchasing items directly, may reduce the novelty of acquiring event items during limited time events.
Purchasing items directly, needs an overhaul of the leveling method of character progression if it bypasses the bloodweb system.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798907#Comment_3798907
If we're talking about information, at lower levels, Survivors might not think to go slow and steady if bat form is approaching, and those scratch marks are as plain as day, informing you that a Survivor is nearby even without listening to their footsteaps.
the information for bat form is pretty hard to track. bat form works a lot like spirit where you can run as survivor, show scratch marks then turn a corner, then start walking. If the killer is not in direct line of sight when he transforms or has to navigate non-liner/open areas it is not out of the question to juke the bat.
Maybe if bat form didn't see scratch marks, but triggered Killer instinct within a small radius. It would be better suited as a mobility tool, and being more jukeable if used in chases.
I don't want to get into this argument where spirit and bat form is uncounterable. the bat is possible to juke without any changes.
the thing about the bat is that the killer can be wrong on survivor location but survivor doesn't get as much distance because prior to said change, if a killer was wrong, they'd have to be stuck in bat form for at least 5 seconds which is 20 meter of distance. Now the bat is only 2.5 seconds so the survivor gets like 8-9 meters of distance for juking the bat. A lot of killer player often did not use bat because risk vs reward of losing distance was too high. i used it but it was extremely punishing. a lot of my games, i would make a mistake, get super punished and get 2k at most, even few losses. Now it is a lot less punishing if your wrong.
it's not like you can swap in and out of bat form for easy hits at loops, it's great at making up the distance a survivor gains if you choose to break a pallet/they use a haste-based perk even in a successful manner and you end up quickly back on them again like nothing happened
Being able to counter shift-w is one of most important killer assets for a killer. it is almost universally what defines bottom tier killers vs top-tier killers. if your really good at using bat form, dracula can be consider very high-tier killer but i think average killer player that plays dracula will not min-max his kit. at least that is my impression from playing vs him as survivor.
Scratch marks not being generated is the only time in which you're able to juke bat, yeah. But you make much less distance if you juke bat by walking. You don't gain 8-9 meters of distance, as you would have to be running to make that distance, which would leave scratch marks, and let bat track you. You gain about 5.65 meters (less than one second of travel for bat). Even then with that kind of distance itself is easy enough to hear an injured survivor, there's less chance to juke while not Healthy.
The real question is what the intent of bat form is: Is it a mobility chase tool like spirit and her power/blight/nurse/etc. to counter shift+w, or is that the role of the wolf form and its scent orbs that give haste (with base drac being anti-loop).
Right now bat seems to be taking on two roles: Mobility and Shift+W chase, and steps on the toes of wolf (given that I think scent orbs only spawn from running survivors, so its whole mechanic is less about information and more about chasing down survivors after you've been impeded).
Right now wolf also seems to be taking on two roles too: Info and Shift+W (but to a lesser degree) and had its Anti-loop nerfed.
The modes are conflicting with one another and to be honest, I don't know which should be which and I assume players would be mad if their notion of what should be what is quashed.
Maybe if they drew a line in the sand:
At base
Bat: Mobility focus, reduced Anti-shift+W
Wolf: Info focus, increased Anti-shift+W, (keeping the Anti-loop nerf)
Drac: Base, AoE, Anti-loop
But then use addons to allows players to customize what each role does well to get it back to their preference.
Like an addon that makes it easier to use wolf in loop, or addon that makes the delay after exiting bat much shorter but reduces the speed given by scent orbs (either through a direct negative or opportunity cost of not being able to make another selection/combination)
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Yep. Enticing new gameplay also doesn't have to just come from new killer powers/perks.
New modes for instance could take that on, if it adds new mechanics that players interact with, which they are doing, but they haven't yet slowed their pace on killer design/perk design.
Though the thing about a "DBD 2" is it's just a new game-mode (and any engine updates could have just been done on the original game with growing pains), but your player-base just lost out on all the progress they originally had.
Frankly they could just make "DBD 2" a new game-mode in dead by daylight without alienating their existing audience.