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@Denezu said:
Just use unbreakable
Eh, not a huge fan of Perk solutions for a lack of basic functionality.
Would be like removing the Killers ability to kick a generator to regress it base-kit because:
“You can use pop, or just, you know, git gud and apply pressure”
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@Skillfulstone said:
I'm honestly just concerned about possible health hazards a fnaf Killer can bring.
Fnaf is a game which has the "horror" label only because it's 90% loud jumpscares and flashing screens, those kind of things (which will become beyond infuriating even for people without any issues after a while, imagine just getting fnaf-jumpscared but repeatedly every 1-2 minutes) can cause issues for many people.
Remember the flashing basement bug? The thing that justified a seizure warning to show up on startup? Yeah I'd rather not have a Killer that has jumpscares and flashing screens/ear-blasting noise as it's entire gimmick.
BHVR, for all their faults and issues, have a good track record when it comes to making licensed content. Even the weakest licensed Killers are lore-accurate gameplay-wise and, even if weak, are interesting and unique in their own way during gameplay. There's no way to make a fnaf Killer without basing it's power around sensory overload and epileptic seizure hazard, even if somehow they manage to not make the most visually and audibly insufferable Killer yet, there's no way that the Mori will lack the classic "death" animation jumpscare (and the horrid Finisher Mori...almost every single games someone will get their eardrums blasted...after spending 4 minutes on the ground).
I honestly don't really mind an animatronic Killer (although a possible wave of kids is unnerving) but for once, the Killer can't be too close to the source material.
They could go the William Afton death route: basically using the suit as a bludgeoning iron maiden. The grating/computerized screech instead being the blood rusted hinges of the springlock suits grating as it quickly and violently compresses the survivors body into pulp, overlapping on their scream.
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Not a huge fan (just always get super quickly engrossed in speculation of things), but I like making speculation on powers
This is my guess on what we might see:
Many different animatronic cosmetics initially - William is preparing his phylacteries for his Remnant, after all.
Simplistic:
- Start inside a Maintenance Bay (Locker type object spread evenly across the map the Killer can enter)
- Unique in that the Killer can select between their cosmetic choices of their loadouts while inside the Maintenance Bay to change their cosmetic choice (but not Perks) during the match, even to set it as random.
- Gain Undetectable until the Killer enters chase
- Can reset the Undetectable state by entering a Maintenance Bay
- While inside a Maintenance Bay, can teleport to others.
- Can Stalk and lean like Ghostface, but Cannot be broken out of it, like Myers.
- Upon reaching full power, can perform a Demon dash like charge while the power gauge quickly drains.
- Can be cancelled, but depletes the gauge
Complex:
- All of the above
- 2 Additional Power Archetypes can be selected inside the Maintenance Bay, changing the power from stalking to something else.
- Each archetype will correlate to a given loadout cosmetic. (Archetype 1 uses the cosmetics in Loadout 1, Archetype 2 uses the cosmetics in Loadout 2, if any, etc.)
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Hex but placeable (with the caveat of needing a Dull Totem Broken)
Always thought they should pivot Hexes that way, so why not.
If more rekindled perks were introduced, would they all apply to the same rekindled totem?
Can the Killer replace this up to 5 times? Or after the rekindled totem is broken, is the Perk deactivated?
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Need to make sure you start the game up on the console so it can ping the server with your data, I think.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824439#Comment_3824439
It would synergies better with her crouch since you can start crouching later.
If I’m doing my math right:
4m/3.8ms - 4m/4.4ms
Saving 0.14s, or 0.63m gained prior to reaching the destination.The skill level and information needed to consistently utilize that outside of it being a placebo is not even expert friendly IMO.
And you can use John’s Medical File to reduce that to make it (If I’m calculating the +10% right being +0.44m/s to make crouched movement 4.24ms):
Saving 0.034s, or 0.15m of distance gained prior to reaching your destination.
By and large I think it would mostly be a placebo change. Only serving to make things a bit muddier categorically.
I do like tinkering with Terror radii, But think it should be within the realm of addons/Perks for the most part, part of the Power, unless there ane any obvious thematic/mechanical ties.Like Wesker’s ego, or Sadako not having super strong chase/not having true stealth with Demanifest due to the lullaby (ironically she can be stealthier while manifested and using Monitor).
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@BlackJimmy88 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824413#Comment_3824413
I'm not talking about the void specifically.
In this events case, it's the complete lack of cooldown on the haunts. Literally everyone else would have pointed out the need for at least a small cooldown, and the fact that remote hooking in the Anniversary even made it past conception is baffling. Remote hooks felt so unfair I would walk to the hook before using to feel less cheap.
All these issues would have been incredibly obvious if BHVR play tested their games more.
The Void's issue is that you're expected to engage in it at the expense of doing objectives, and if you're opponent is just playing to win, then you have to either ignore the void or throw the game. Again, obvious problems that would should have been picked up ages ago.
Ah, gotcha.
I tunnel visioned on this posts topic.
But to be frank I’m glad they’re iterating and not being too afraid to see how things work in a live environment to collect data and feedback.
These events are temporary, after all.
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@Langweilig said:
I hope they move away from standardizing such stuff. It is cool to have killers with different terror radius sizes and it also reflects their character.
Making pigs terror radius 28m would fine, I hope they do it. It could probably even be 20-26m. I generally don’t understand why some stealth killers have a 32m terror radius. It kinda defeats the purpose of being a stealth killer.
After you mentioned Sadako I hope they reduce the terror radius and lullaby for her too to something like 18m.
Because the intent is to use their stealth power for stealth…
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Main’ed Pig.
Don't see too much reason for a 4m reduction in TR range apart from a feel-good “I’m unique, nostalgia, I got a a buff!”, other than slightly better synergy with Monitor and Abuse.
Her Power already causes her TR to shrink/disappear when she has a destination in mind to use it at, there are other perks out there that can give her undetectable phases, and she’s one of those Killers who you can let get even closer to you until running, with her middling chase strength anyway.
I wouldn’t be against an addon influencing her base TR to a slightly stronger degree, but see no reason for her base TR to be smaller.
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@BlackJimmy88 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824094#Comment_3824094
It should have though, and too much stuff doesn't cross their mind already. Too many busted mechanics get through the cracks during these events, that any one of us could have said was obviously a terrible idea.
They need to playtest these things more.
This is far from a busted or obvious mechanic and you’re being melodramatic.
- Survivors can still see the dying survivors aura to navigate towards them in the void. They can still help them recover.
- If the Killer is hanging out in the void with the slug, that’s free time on gens. And survivors have a handy tool to obscure their movement that they can access while the Killer is standing on the slug to try and make the pickup safer
- If the Killer abandons a chase to re-enter the void if they see another survivor enter it, then that’s less pressure on the rest of the survivors, increasing their efficiency
I will agree with it seeming odd that the Survivor can’t exit the void while in the dying state.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824279#Comment_3824279
Does this report following a template?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430460/tome-not-working
And this is mine. —
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430117/constant-200-ping-on-the-new-event
Do I really need to make a screenshot of the red bar in the lobby in order to have my report approved on this one?
Your issue is something technical with no described reproduction steps other than “my connection is bad, fix pls”.
They cannot help you with that as they do not have any of your system info in order to diagnose the problem.
It’d be like calling an auto-repair shop and asking: “My car is having problems, can you fix it?”, but then never taking it into the shop.
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How does the second heal take longer?
It’s a perk that heals you (additively) 70% of the altruistic healing you perform. It’s not a “siphon” of altruistic healing to you or anything.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823881#Comment_3823881
It makes it too easy to find unbroken pallets = dragging out chases.
It makes it too easy to go from loop to loop = dragging out chases.
Showing Pallets helps with SWF parity by allowing SoloQ to be informed on where a pallet could have been broken.
Though it does allow SWF to get pallet intel from the start of the match, and removes any need to communicate pallet status (other than god pallets some might try to navigate to).
As far as Window chaining: It’s still reliant on the survivor understanding how to loop those in the first place.
Were it ever to be nerfed I’d imagine it’d just be;
See the Aura of Vaults (including Dropped Pallets).
I’d want to add “Receive a noise notification when a pallet is broken”, to simulate a pallet break callout, but that’s basically Alert. But not a huge fan of two perk slots for that small bridge in information.
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Maybe it didn’t cross their minds.
Perhaps they could leverage the hatch interaction conditions (from a technical perspective), if they’re looking to reuse code to allow survivors another interaction method while in the dying state with the Void Portals.
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@Seraphor said:
A killer that camps a hook is wasting 70-140 seconds of time they could be pressuring other survivors and furthering their objective.
You have 70 seconds to rescue the survivor, use it to repair gens instead of skulking around the hook, and the killer won't benefit from camping.
Survivors make camping meta.
Oh, but I do want to add (as this post is also about tunneling, and by proxy: proxy camping):
Survivors might make camping meta, but the game mechanics make tunneling and proxy camping meta:
- If one survivor is taken out early, the hook/rescue/chase cycle now can now allow no time on generators: 1v3 becomes significantly skewed in the Killers favor
- Survivors that are unhooked, give the Killer a notification on where they were unhooked (and by nature of being in the same place.)
- Unhooked survivors are hooked in areas that possibly have had their resources (pallets/breakable walls) expended, and are now more likely a dead zone (making it easier for follow-up chases even against base endurance)
- Unhooked survivors bleed and groan in pain, coupled with the unhook notification providing the time they were unhooked, allowing for better predictive pathing based on the hook location from the Killer, should they double-back.
- Hooking survivors in potentially high-traffic areas (like in Gen clusters), allows the Killer to guard the hook from a distance while still effectively patrolling, increasing the likelihood of trades for an unhook
- From a metagame knowledge perspective, you always know where at least two survivors will eventually: at that hook, which can be tempting to return to upon hearing the unhook notification if you haven’t found anyone.
- From a basic reactionary perspective, the Hooked survivor is “your catch”, and you don’t want to let people take it. There is no strong incentive to go for other things, even if rationally it makes sense to do so. (I wonder if camping and hard tunneling is higher for new Killers, and if that might cause a negative impression on new survivors, possibly damaging player onboarding).
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823873#Comment_3823873
Right. So it's a nerf to tunnelling to compensate for the gen time increase's buff to tunnelling.
Basically.
IMO still not a huge fan that their solution to address perceived Gen rush was just to increase the time it takes to repair a gen.
But whatever.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822686#Comment_3822686
Slugging is no more a dick move than leaving your teammate on the hook to commit to a generator.
only a dick move if that teammate losses an unnecessary hook stage.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Just because they aren't free second chances, doesn't mean they don't have great stuff. Expand your mind, and your skill set.
Playing the devils advocate with that sentiment
Exactly, learn how to adapt to situations on the fly.You’re already following the survivors trail, a guiding beacon (a lifelike aura, one could say) on where you need to path to, so now you just need to adapt to what it is they lead you to.
How do you react to each new possible loop, resource, or layout presented to you?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
The fact is, you can love it or you can hate it, proxy camping and tunneling is a winning strategy. Spreading hooks across survivors, not tunneling, is not a winning strategy. If it works, it's because the survivors are bad. Even Hens figured this out, and admitted it when it did a video where he did a 10 game win streak as Trapper without camping or tunneling. He FULLY admitted in the comments for the video that the survivors he faced were SIGNIFICANTLY less skilled than he was, after other people in the comments called it out. Otherwise, like it or not, he would have been bodied.
"Don't tunnel, don't camp, don't slug" - these are all imaginary rules. They aren't real, and you need to let go of them. It can't only be okay for survivors to use strong stuff, use effective strategies to try and win.
I want to agree with you in that people should play how they want to play, not being entirely beholden to the opinions of others, but your argument isn’t sound, and you come off extremely abrasive.
”Don’t tunnel, don’t camp, don’t slug” are indeed imaginary rules, in an attempt to establish a social construct, one at the very least held by those proponent of it.
And so is the social construct that getting a 4K means the Killer won, and is what all Killers should strive for, which you seem to be a proponent of. Your opinion is just as imaginary. If for no other reason that I hold a contradictory opinion that my win condition is simply that I had fun as Killer.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823523#Comment_3823523
Again: whatever you are talking about, it's not the reality of DBD.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823549#Comment_3823549
Gen times would need to have an added 21-30s to generators, not 10s.
It's never gonna be 30 seconds -unless the killer camps-. If the killer just continues playing as normal, those 10 seconds will not come into play. It is still in the survivors' best interest to get that unhook as fast as possible.
Getting the survivor unhooked as fast as possible gives the Killer a larger window to harass generator progression and utilize regression perks while more survivors are preoccupied resetting instead of reaching generator “checkpoints” (generator completions), that cannot be regressed by the Killer.
If the other survivors don’t manage their chase resources well and get downed quickly, yes, it’s important to have more survivors fielded. But if they can last a decent amount of time in chase, better to focus on gens if the opportunity arises to complete a generator without the hooked survivor entering the next stage. -
What Mooks said.
Though personally I think the screen obfuscation inside the fog cloud should be toned down so the Killer can better understand if the survivor is still inside the smoke or not, and reduce the skill gap for short term memory recollection of the immediate terrain.
Reducing its effectiveness at just dropping it while the killer is almost near you, requiring a bit more effort to plan where to drop it, in advance.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823611#Comment_3823611
Gens are your main objective. If you don't enjoy that, maybe playing survivor is the irrational part.
shrugs Gens are the objective, but not why I enjoy the game.
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Survivors are supposed to heal themselves on the ground simply because that’s what came in the package.
To be frank, I think the idea of a survivor taking advantage of the Killer ignoring the slug via an altruistic action to be a novel idea:While contesting the slug, the Killer can proxy while the slug remains immobile and recovering, but if the Killer departs away from the slug, another survivor could get off a Gen early to help the slug move while recovering (but not at the rate of healing, that’s saved for the slug being on the ground immobile healed by another survivor).
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823335#Comment_3823335
And the death timer should continue because else what prevents someone from dragging a survivor "forever"? (For any reason, and I can already imagine a few.)
I see no reason not to keep the blood stains. They don't stay for long anyway.
The reason for temporarily pausing the dying survivor's death is to give the survivor time to move the dying survivor to a better place to heal, I mean so that the dying survivor doesn't die in your hands.
I think you think that survivors can heal a dying survivor while dragging or carrying the dying survivor, I don't want that, what I wrote here is intended to move the dying survivor meaning you will have to lower the dying survivor to start healing.
The reason for hiding the blood stains is to encourage the survivors to cooperate and make it difficult for the killer to track the survivors as there are already 3 survivors in one place.
Does the bleedout timer also pause when healing a survivor?
I don’t think the blood stains should be hidden, at base.
Though this kind of interaction is something that could be expanded upon with perks, however niche they would be.
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So, fun fact, as I’ve obstinately done this as Killer myself: if you spam the hook button while picking up a survivor underneath a hook, you can initialize the hook animation before the stun window opens for survivors with flashlights. (At least I’m nearly certain about this, could also be latency).
That could be the criteria for the zone in which a survivor can pick themselves up: where the Killer would also be able to perform an immediate hook. (Possibly also making the location stricter too for survivor, to prevent moving in and out, and some visual particle effects/flair to indicate to the Killer and the survivor that the survivor is in that zone).
The last 5% could also reset itself if the survivor stops recovering, meaning the survivor would always have to have some small time commitment. As well as the rate of recovery for that 5% being lowered as needed. The Killer can take advantage of/that survivors would need to body-block for. At which point it kinda just becomes like picking up the survivor for that last 5% like a regular pickup.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822855#Comment_3822855
It certainly beats a basekit Unbreakable scenario. Maybe further limit to only being able to be used if either 2 Survivors are down, or there are 2 left and 1 has been slugged. I can imagine a well-coordinated SWF could use it to their advantage if only 1 downed Survivor was needed, and it allows the Killer to punish those moments when Survivors wrecklessly mob to save the fallen.
Otherwise, it's better than anything I could come up with. You may very well have taken my idea of it being unsolvable, and shat on it!
I’d prefer to keep the activation conditions simplistic, so not having a requirement of multiple survivors.
Thinking about SWF and endurance stuff, it should also add Deep Wounds to the survivor on that self-pickup too, so they couldn’t take advantage of it (endurance effects), and further add a time penalty for that survivor performing the basic self-pickup.
Broken, Deep Wounds, needing to position under hook, and fully recover. Think that might make it as unappealing as possible, while still being easily identifiable as a last resort.
- Fully Recovered, under hook, can recover the last 5%
- Becomes Broken, and suffers Deep Wounds
Though if you can elaborate on possible swf strategies I’d be more than happy to hear them.
This idea is a cumulative chimera of sporadic consideration of the topic over years. And certainly could use more facets of consideration to complete it.
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@Seraphor said:
A killer that camps a hook is wasting 70-140 seconds of time they could be pressuring other survivors and furthering their objective.
You have 70 seconds to rescue the survivor, use it to repair gens instead of skulking around the hook, and the killer won't benefit from camping.
Survivors make camping meta.
That’s a rather irrational take…
Video games are an entertainment medium.
People play them to be entertained.
If you had to choose between sitting at a generator holding M1 with the occasional QTE, or having a back and forth with a hostile presence, attempting to reach a point to help someone else (also taking advantage of empathy, spite, even a challenge), which would you choose as your form of entertainment?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823117#Comment_3823117
@NarkoTri1er pretty well explained how slugging affects pressure and how not going for the unhooking for extended periods can rob the killer themselves of any pressure. Its not that hard to understand, but you seem to purposefully dodging this.
No, Narko delivered a bunch of word-salad which never actually addressed any pressure, just his personal misperception of pressure. Like mentioning having pressure on the unhooked and unhooker because he knows where they are. That's not pressure, unless you actually are able to affect them at that point. Otherwise, they can heal under the hook or get on a gen right next to it anyway.
So no, that's not an explanation of 'pressure', it's just Narko talking about how tunnelling/camping is harder now, which is fair, considering it got buffed with the +10 seconds on gens. If you're not tunnelling/camping, these ten seconds make very little difference, and survivors that attempt to exploit those ten seconds may well cost their team the entire match.
And like I explained already, the +10s hook timer is NOT equal to the +10s gen time, or as you put it " these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen."
You didn't explain it, you just stated it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823156#Comment_3823156
increasing hook time was poor choice by BVHR in the end because it reduced urgency for survivors to unhook players.
It doesn't, unless the killer is camping/tunnelling. Survivors still need to get people off the hook as quickly as possible, because if there's two survivors on the hook at the same time, it's very much possible for the killer to snowball out. Those 10 extra seconds aren't 10 extra seconds of gen progress on three gens. One gen should be interrupted by the killer anyway, but the extra time spent on the gen is weighed down by the survivor on hook staying there longer.
Consider it this way: 1 on hook, 1 in chase, 2 on gens, for 70 seconds. That's 140 charges.
Vs.
1 on hook, 1 in chase, 1 on rescue, 1 on gen for 30 seconds, then 3 on gen for 40 seconds: That's 150 charges.
The -only- difference it makes, is if a gen is within the exact right progress point where being able to go for the unhook 10 seconds later allows them to finish it. If they're not progressed far enough, they will have to go for the save anyway. If they have progressed further than that, then the 10 extra seconds don't come into play. The further progressed the gen is, the less of those 10 seconds are left to benefit from.
And the exact point where you need to lock in to finish the gen? That's different based on the distance between gen and survivor. And that's so hard to calculate that you're not going to realistically be able to make use of it.
So what changed, from the survivors' perspective?
Nothing.
Except for the fact that you now have 20 extra seconds to 'just do gens, 4head' when the killer camps or tunnels.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823161#Comment_3823161
Pick-up-to-hook-time did not get changed at all.
I was addressing your slug concerns.
Regarding the 10s hook change:Gen times would need to have an added 21-30s to generators, not 10s.
One survivor hooked still allows for up to three survivors on generators simultaneously or spread out.
Meaning a maximum charge/second input of 21-30 charges (based on efficiency penalty of any grouped survivors) if survivors utilize that added extra time to its maximum potential.
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Maybe they’re the seeds for an ARG lore event tied to Halloween in the forums.
4th wall meta breaking with vigo or the Arkham troupe scrawling comments into sheefs of paper they find that look like dialogue about their own world viewed as a video game.
Once Halloween rolls around, and the bleed into “our world” strengthens, they populate into little lore snippets and comments from some characters, maybe even cries for help, or just keeping them sane.
And those interested can score the forums for all past instances of those previously obscured comments.
Or just some automated troll bot that’s trying to automate spam into the forums consistently being circumvented/bypassing the ability to be removed completely by moderators, and or a new forum bug regarding moderator post removal not working correctly.
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@AshitakaNago said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823155#Comment_3823155
I agree with what you are saying. One way to combat this is the random generation of hook locations each time a survivor is picked up. This would prevent the memorization of hook locations. I think it could be implemented to not have the survivor teleported to one of the hooks closest to the killer as well. If a killer approaches a hook, the hook could relocate to another location, similar to the 2v8 as another user mentioned. Do you think this would sufficiently solve this problem? If not, do you have any suggestions?
Similar to Pyramid Heads cages.
To some extent it would work, but also does introduce hook shuffling as a niche to waste more survivors time: If a survivor was going for the rescue, but then is cut off by the killer, who forces the hook to relocate, they could cause more confusion and time spent traversing to hooks on the survivors side, while also allowing the killer to go a step further when cutting off survivors by potentially denying a trade.
Possibly a good thing, the caged survivors experience isn’t quite so static (in the case of relocation), and can be a tactical tool for the killer to waste more time if they can locate the caged survivor without accidentally triggering the relocation.
You could likely replicate that, but just using hook spawns.
At the same time though, there are points to be made about how deciding where to place survivors on Hook is a strategy in and of itself for Killer. As the Hooked survivor becomes a “watering hole” for survivors to congregate.
I don’t technically want to remove that.
I’d also like to make the hooked state a little bit more interactive.So how about:
A hooked survivor can slowly expand a radius around themselves by holding a button, steadily revealing the auras of hooks to themselves.
The survivor can then press another button while hovering over a hook to confirm it as a spectral link. Their Aura changes color, and is reflected on the hook they’re linked to, the hook whose aura is then shown to all other survivors.
If they’re unhooked, they will teleport directly underneath that selected hook. (Being unhooked by an unhooker, a self-unhook, or the anti-camp mechanic)
This can be canceled by expanding the radius again to reset the selection process.
(Preferably I’d like to remove the anti-camp mechanic, and allow the hooked survivor to channel their pain into a resonance onto their spectral linked hook, upon full resonance they swap to that hook).So now, the hooked survivor themselves is able to navigate this web of hooks (likely only once per stage given the time it takes to expand the radius and resonate to another hook), but whom still needs to be unhooked.
They can choose another hook to be unhooked at if they feel the killer is tunneling (via the link to another hook teleporting them there on unhook), and if the Killer is camping, they themselves have the agency to move to another hook (through resonance). (In this case it is the survivor utilizing pain resonance, lol).
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822835#Comment_3822835
You do realise that this dramatically narrows the window, right? This only comes into play if your gen is around 90% done, otherwise there's no benefit and you're better off getting the other survivor off the hook so they can get back into action too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822837#Comment_3822837
Same goes here. It's only relevant if those extra ten seconds are exactly what you need to finish the gen. Which, to Akumakaji's second point, also means that these ten seconds are a pretty exact counterweight to the ten extra seconds on the gen.
But, another quite important question in the overall discussion: If these extra ten seconds are such a big deal, why would killers then opt to slug instead, considering slugging takes 2 full minutes longer, rather than 20 seconds?
Say I’m the Killer.
I just got a down.
I could pick up the Survivor, spend about 10 seconds taking them to the hook and hooking them (or more time if there are nearby survivors), and then retrace my steps and go looking for others. Let’s say that was 15s overall.
Survivors had a cumulative 45s of time they could have been spending on gens in that time.
By slugging I skip that time, allowing me to potentially intercept a generator completion that I would have otherwise let slip through had I spent the time hooking the survivor.
But you’re not trying to bleed that one survivor out.
It’s a race to get them to a point where they’re all slugged, and unable to pick themselves up, as at that point you effectively win.
The bleedout is just the arbitrary endpoint.
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There is a decent chance that the survivor will be randomly spawned on a nearby hook, one within line of sight, or perhaps even on the very hook the Killer placed them on.
If there is any logic behind which hook the survivor is teleported to, that can be dissected like with cages and played around.
The killer may very well stumble upon the hooked survivor while looking for a victim, such that they’ve now become more time-efficient than either spreading pressure or staying near hook, but spread pressure and got closer to the hooked survivor.
Though I agree with the removal of the unhook notification. -
sounds fun.
So long as there is at least a little delay when lifting up the survivor, such that players couldn’t try to just drag a survivor over to a pallet or out of the exit while the Killer is in the wiping animation, and if the carrying survivor suffers a health state of damage, they drop the survivor. (Might not be an issue competitively, just an annoyance exacerbated with coordinated groups).
Letting the dying survivor recover (as normal) while this action could be cool too, and give more credence to it as a co-op action.
But if the carried survivor holds sprint, it cancels the interaction/prevents the interaction from occurring.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
It's an unsolvable problem, which is currently not so prevailent in the grand scheme of things. It happens more to some than others. For me, it's extremely rare, but does happen (had it happen once today).
It's unsolvable, because it doesn't matter what incentives Killers get for not slugging, there will always be some players who will slug regardless. Even if those players had the most powerful version of each gen-related perk available, it only takes some pressure, a perceived BM by a Survivor, or something else for them to slug again.
Whichever side somebody is on, be it Killer or Survivor, if there is a way to make the other side unenjoyable, then there will always be some who will do it. Perceived unfairness - gen speeds, healing nerfs, whatever - will always only be excuses to do these things. Even if it's fixed, there will be another excuse.
It's still not common in the grand scheme of things. It'll be when idiot influencers start promoting it in more detail that will be the problem. Maybe they'll recommend it as a tactic. Maybe they'll do it under the guise of pointing out a problem, when it's just for their views. People ultimately have a choice. It's been proven time and time and time again playing for slugging isn't needed for Killers to win, and it says more about the players skill than anything else.
If ever it becomes too common (and I hope it won't) the only option is basekit Unbreakable. It's a poor response, but there is no reasoning in this. The best thing is to just have some empathy and actually understand the pretty clear difference between being honour and just being a dick.
Once a Survivor has recovered to the point they need to seek help, they can either wait for another survivor, or seek to prostrate themselves before the entity: Underneath a Hook, survivors can recover fully, but become Broken until they next enter the dying state.
- Removes the possibility of survivors leveraging hook distance for free self-pickups, as they'd need to be under hook
- Adds additional time to the self-pickup by necessitating the Survivor must be under a Hook, which they would likely need to crawl to
- In the case of multiple slugged survivors, one can perform this self-pickup, then try to recover the other survivors
- Survivors as disincentivized from leveraging this over healing a dying survivor due to the persistent Broken status.
I would not expect this to be a common occurrence. Just as an exit strategy for the semblance of agency should this scenario occur.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822716#Comment_3822716
increased hook timers and perks like Reassurance are not only used for anticamp purposes, unless you have completely linear understanding of the game
How, exactly, do survivors benefit from another survivor being incapacitated for longer?
Say the Killer has Hex: Ruin:
If I get off this Generator and go rescue a Hooked Survivor, I now have to repair any lost progress once I get back. But if the Survivor has enough time left on Hook where I can complete the generator, and then go unhook them, I now no longer have to deal with that additional time caused by the regression from Ruin, as once a Generator has been completed, it can no longer regress.
The additional time a survivor can spend hooked allows me to be more discerning with how time-efficient I can be.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822762#Comment_3822762
Gurly it's not me not wanting to hear or talk about it, it's you who is not happy if someone actually bring arguments to the table. Like if all you want to hear is "Yes, omg slugging is not fun." then talk to your friends about it. I am not saying that everyone should like being slugged or that it's not valid to be unhappy about it. But your post never had that topic to begin with, so maybe make it more clear.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822761#Comment_3822761
I am not saying that it's wrong to feel a certain way about it and I totally agree that it's not fun. But all I can say right now is that we have enough counter potential to minimize this aspect. Heck, No Mither is the anti-slug perk.
Band-aids band-aids band-aids. That's how you create perk metas when there is a mechanical vacuum that only a perk can fill.
If there is a base-kit pickup added, I don't want it to be better than the current perk offerings, or being better than being picked up by other survivors, it just needs to be there as an option.
As it stands, if for some reason no other (non-dying/hooked) survivor can reach you as a downed survivor, you're SoL.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822713#Comment_3822713
One Boon: Exponention is enough to counter it. Like I said if some survivors bring the usual perks in a match even then it's no big deal. Of course there are different factors, like u said, a dracula has more slug potential than a bubber. Also the map can make it easier or harder. A Exponention on Midwich is stronger than on Swamp. It's just a question of how meta slugging is or will be. If it is turning into the new big meta, people will naturally adjust, expect and counter it. Especially since Survivors have a lot of tools to counter it.
And the slugging Killer will adapt too: Slot Shattered Hope to destroy the Boon Totem completely.
People will adapt to the current meta strategies, but the question is if those meta strategies are any fun to engage with in the first place.
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822646#Comment_3822646
yeah, let's constantly punish strategies in existence as a bandaid for not being able to take care of the core of the problem, and in return make the game become even more unhealthy and toxic
The core of the problem is that a slugged survivor has zero chance of being picked up on their own.
(though I suppose technically that the real core is that dying survivors can't help each other up, though if they could, then there's a question on if the survivors mobility penalty while in the dying state still allows the killer too much time-efficiency should slugging two or more survivors at a time ever become common).
This allows the Killer to skip the pickup/hook step, increase their time-efficiency, and get survivors into a state where none are able to help one another recover (thus all being setup to die), all while retaining the time-efficiency of skipping all pickup steps.
Adding incentives to get the killer to pick them up and hook them instead are band-aids.
@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822731#Comment_3822731
Dead by Daylight released 2016, slugging was always a thing. Doesn't matter what shiny new Perk gets released or which big YouTuber releases a "new" slugging build - It was always a topic, a strategy and there are many, many Videos about it. So let's just move on since this is just cold coffee by now.
To be frank, slugging isn't fun as Killer for me. And I'd assume most others too, especially those with any empathy, or simply pride in being "better than you" that you didn't even need to do it. Slugouts are really only done by those trying to prove a point, or are just mean-spirited.
I remember way back when when I introduced the game to my brother for the first time, we had a Myers that wasn't super good at the game, but once we were the last two, Myers ended up slugging me and him out over the course of like ten minutes as both of us were able to pick each other up, and he couldn't down both of us at the same time or find the other while the person he downed was recovering (and he didn't try to camp a slugged survivor either). But we neither had a key for the hatch (as it could be opened with one at the time), and working on generators while one of us was in the dying state would mean a death sentence if they were caught off guard and downed while the other was still in the dying state.
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@TimelessData said:
that’s the problem I shouldn’t lose by playing “nice” it should be hook counts not kills then killers have more incentive to actually go for chaces and not tunnel for kills but I play to win I’m competitive but I like to play both sides so I’m not biased. And I think that killers atm are just weak survivors imo especially when they know every loop every map are far far far too strong in chases and gens.
Then still go for the 4K but while "playing nice". Just remember that doing so competitively will mean that there will be wins and losses, and falling prey to temptation to tunnel when you feel you're behind will start your MMR sliding towards necessitating that kind of playstyle.
I agree, I'd like there to be more pomp and flair for going for as many hooks and chases as possible, but that's not what the current gameplay loop provides: By far the most satisfactory checkpoints are Hook deaths and now the base-kit Mori.
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@TimelessData said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821464#Comment_3821464
unfortunately that’s how the devs see skill is getting kills not hooks so playing “nice” will most likely lose you the game as too much pressure and gens fly you have to tunnel to even get close to winning or playing “unfun”
If you're just looking at "winning" like the devs are, yeah, you'll lose more by "playing nice".
But honestly I've never had more chill games:
By adhering myself to an 8 Hook "nice Killer" playstyle (and further I even typically try to be sequential about hooks), my MMR settles to a point where I'm matched against survivors of skill levels where that's consistently possible.
Which is in stark contrast to when I'd try to hyper-tunnel/slugout survivors with Bubba. After several matches of that, whoof, the sweats and cheaters I faced for a while.
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
I dont understand why you get automaticly transfered into the void when you open a portal.
I agree.
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@BurnedTerrormisu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821421#Comment_3821421
you cant talk over win rate before talking over killrate because you have to kill survivor to win.
But if my personal criteria for "winning" is aggressively going for 8 Hooks then playing "nice Killer" until Mori'ing the Obsession with Rancor, I am skewing the data for killrate being an absolute measure of skill for MMR.
Unfortunately we don't really know how many other players play in such a manner. But as far as I'm aware, I've created an outlier in the data if only kills are looked at as a measure of "skill".
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@MaddieMage said:
Zero reason to ever enter the void. In void survivors are exhausted, broken and don’t know when killer are there.
Killers know when you’re there and are undetectable and their powers work in void.
No haunts this year to release which was HUGE for gaining extra BP inside and outside of the void. The BP gain this year is pretty garbage.
Useless smoke bomb that hinders you just as much as killer
Killers can use their event power and their M1 almost simultaneously to basically instadown survivors.So again… why should survivors even play this event? I’m basically gonna do the tome so I can get the event items and that’s it.
Just a quick note to the devs: You know it WAS possible for you guys to give killers some needed buffs to make this event fun for them without completely destroying the experience for survivors correct? Just checking.
Not too sure why survivors are exhausted TBH. Killers have their Power there now. Survivors leave scratch marks, etc.
But far as I know, depositing energy for an event item will also give you bonus BP. Perhaps it's not as much as releasing haunts like last year?
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@Ayodam said:
Someone explain to me why survivors should enter the void? They are revealed to killers at all times while inside, are exhausted and broken. And they do this to possibly create a smoke bomb that briefly hides scratch marks in a small area around them..?
- If the Killer isn't immediately on you, but still chasing you, you can enter the void to break line of sight with them/make them stop and interact with the void portal, and there's a lot of pallets/loops/drop downs (for balanced landing) that might not have already been used/act as a supplementary pallet zone. (You can also fake-out entering the portal/use it as a LoS blocker by going through the energy).
- You can make yourself more mobile around the map, but this is honestly down to RNG portal spawns (I do hope they do a minimum distance between portals, and traveling salesman it to find the zones best suited to create the most distance between portals outside of the void) and being able to figure out in short order which portal correlates to which location, but that can be a bit tricky (would love it if there was some semblance of indicator as to the immediate surrounding area both looking into, and looking out of, a portal. (maybe being inside the blue portal zone overlays two cameras: inside and outside of the portal, could be used to check for killers using them as hook camp tools too)
- You can deposit energy there for a chase disengage/obfuscation tool, best acquired in conjunction with using the portals as a means of mobility across the map or as a pallet resource zone.
- Bait: The Killer knows your general location, and could be tempted to enter the portals to chase you if they're not currently in chase with someone else. Though this one is less likely to be a thing as time goes on as Killers would just ignore the bait if survivors are already planning on hiding inside the void (could counteract that by triggering Killer instinct for a few seconds on all survivors in the void when the Killer enters it)
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That would be dope, though I hope it would be made more fluid than needing to get in range of the keyprompt, pausing, and then pressing the keyprompt to move forward.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821287#Comment_3821287
I agree. Certain bugs here and there will happen but the ones that straight up change the maps by adding breakable walls that could even trap and hold survivors hostage is really bad.
This should’ve never happened.
hmm, that's actually an interesting point: If survivors can place breakable walls, Will survivors be able to be trapped via breakable walls being erected? Can they themselves bash them down if they need to escape?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821279#Comment_3821279
I'm sorry, but how does something like this happen?
I'm genuinely curious.
Probably 2v8 powers/testing spilling over? And this building just squeezed in somehow with the flags set for all breakable wall creation zones enabled.
Likely a survivor archetype will be able to erect breakable walls as a form of chase disengage, or out-of-chase possibly. Ideally not the same class that can also build pallets (as that could seem a bit overloaded with chase manipulation).
Here's hoping that these Breakable walls can also be destroyed with a Basic Attack, or a faster version of the Break animation.
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@Mr_K said:
Yep, this was the next step after hiding prestige. Next you will want default cosmetics until the match starts.
The incremental regress to no lobby continues.
On one hand I do like knowing if I'm against a streamer so I can lookup their stream later (though this could be solved just by checking the end-game names). Though I can see how that could backfire if people wanted to streamsnipe.
I can imagine that possibly some solos/groups seeing a streamers name in the lobby could be a catalyst for those other survivors to join in on the stream/chat before and during the match.
It would be nice if most of the cards were on the table at the start of the match: Killer chosen/name/Survivors/names (though with lobby dodging penalties upon leaving a lobby. Maybe more lenient).
But if we're still hiding the Killer and their name from survivors, I don't see why the same can't be applied to Killers not seeing the names of survivors.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
He’s just another “hold your power until you zone a survivor” type killer, that also has a mini Wesker and Spirit ability. He’s so boring to verse.
Even though I like how rapid you can go from a teleport to transform out of bat into a hit (for generators near a vault), that aspect could definitely be tweaked down.
Though a lot of survivors are greedy with pallets IMO: Pre-drop it so you're not in an animlock that's in-place with the drop animation, instead forcing a 50/50 with Dracula needing to predict if you're going to move across the pallet or continue around a side, and if the later, then you can try to juke (though hellfire propagation speed could possibly be lowered).
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As a former Pyramid Head main (now Drac), that's not as useful as you think:
The survivor is now instantly put at an edge of the map away from the Killer
- This system is somewhat predictable: you know they will always try to spawn as far as possible away from you, so you can get a general idea of where the caged survivor now is, the ever shrinking sizes of the maps doesn't help with this.
- At the start of the match this can be beneficial to the Killer as they could run across the survivor as they patrol generators.
- Flashlight saves, pallet saves, the struggle phase, is now gone, and there's less interaction between the Killer and survivors.
- The Killer is now much more time-efficient as the time that other survivors might have spent on gens while the Killer carried a survivor to hook is now replaced by the Killer patrolling or actively entering a chase
The survivor is moved if the Killer gets too close
- The Killer can try to force hook stages by repeatedly patrolling around the map and moving the caged survivors cage.
- Survivors can now actually waste time moving to perform a rescue if the killer moves the cage, as that distance travelled must now go across the map if there are no other survivors there.
Now, what it does do successfully is make the Survivors position more unknown to the Killer initially, so the Killer can't utilize that information to position themselves to tunnel or intercept.
However, the system that does so is somewhat predictable, and once the Killer figures out the survivors location after some patrolling, it once again becomes a scenario where the Killer knows where the Hooked survivor is with certainty.
What needs to happen in some form, is the creation of Schrödinger's Hook: The survivor both is, and isn't, hooked at a given spot. And the Killer can't be certain where the Survivor is until they're unhooked. Ideally allowing the Killer to influence the scenario based on their own placement of the hooked survivor and their movement.
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@Ohyakno said:
I'm not really sure how to phrase this in an inoffensive way, but it still feels like it needs to be said.
People are praising the trickster preview and how yall are asking for feedback before it's even released. This feels really, really weird to me. It feels like design by committee. Like you're outsourcing game development to the community at large.
You're professional game developers with years of experience. You should know DBD better than anyone. Outsourcing the game to random people with Opinions feels like a bad decision that's gonna make your product worse in the long run. There's taking feedback and there's taking marching orders from your community. I think you know better than the community for the most part.
Years of experience developing games, not necessarily years of experience playing them.
10 years of just developing Solitaire doesn't necessarily mean you'd be able to come up with "fresh new ideas" if that's all you've done or played, as your experience was limited in scope.
Also, it's not like they're designing by committee: they're crowd-sourcing ideas/sentiments via a prompt that they can parse through themselves to find what fits or improves on their current design, or they might come across an idea that sparks inspiration for something new.