ArkInk
ArkInk
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- ArkInk
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Wicked doesn't work on death hook right? You can just take the hook and you won't have to deal with it for the rest of the match.
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Losing the moonlight offerings was kind of upsetting, especially as this was a little before the Graphical Update would come. It was sorta the beginning of the end for DBD's classic atmosphere, although the given reason made sense.
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Would actually be kinda creepy, especially if they swayed on it. Sounds cool!
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They said they were looking at him and Myers awhile ago, so they may be on the roadmap that'll presumably be unveiled on May 14th. I wouldn't hold my breath, but Sharp Hand Joe might be coming out of retirement soon.
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I play Doctor all the time and don't experience this. He's not the best, but he's the best he's ever been. I'm satisfied with him after his recent tweaks.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712635#Comment_3712635
That's not true. Please don't spread misinformation. If you look at my video it takes 74 seconds to do a gen now instead of 90. It's not 45 seconds. It being 74 is still an issue but it's not as extreme as 45 seconds.
I was referring to its use with people running Prove Thyself and other perks, which as you mentioned in your post would speed the gen up more. I shouldn't have made the comparison to gens taking 90 seconds, as that's just with one individual instead of multiple. Not misinformation, but my mistake nonetheless.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712538#Comment_3712538
Map+dark clothing+bushes = map
I don't get it
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@Melodiya said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712476#Comment_3712476
Because it doesn’t break the game like spot in Garden of Joy where you can go behind the texture and hold the killer hostage, they just need to fix it in the next update and that’s it!
It breaks the games balance in an incredibly big way. Gens should take 90 seconds, with this unintended exploit it can be 45 seconds all the time. Given how otherwise niche it is as a perk, killswitching it would improve player experience greatly.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712508#Comment_3712508
The thing about that hypothetical is that the thing which is giving the survivors value is the bodyblocking, not the DS. That would still be in their best interest to do if the person who just got unhooked had no anti-tunnel tools at all, especially if they'd been on their first hook when they were saved.
Bodyblocking can absolutely be weaponised, both in legitimate/balanced ways and in problematic ways. The only thing DS adds to any of these circumstances is that it forces the killer to slug instead of just shrugging and hooking that survivor again.
In other words, it forces the killer to make the bigger-value play instead of following the path of less resistance. DS is the part that can't be weaponised because the impact it has on this situation is to push the killer into capitalising on the free pressure whether they'd know that's what they're doing or not.
As to the first question in that first paragraph: No, because they'd have to go out of their way to do it, and that'd waste a lot of time. In the scenarios we're talking about, the survivor is the one going out of their way to make sure the only investment the killer has to make is a weapon-attack cooldown, because they're making sure there's absolutely zero distance or resources between themselves and the killer. In that scenario, slugging is absolutely better because you don't have to do anything other than hit the survivor to achieve it. They're gifting it to you almost for free.
I'd disagree there that slugging is the best option. That slug can get Adrenaline or Unbreakable, which results in nothing for a killer. I'd hook that survivor to force at least someone to eventually unhook. Chase the unhooker and hope that you can down both survivors on death hook for a tie before the gen and gate are done. The alternative is slugging the unhooked and booking it to the final gen, which gives survivors a chance to reset what otherwise would be a situation in your favor as you now need to leave the only death hook survivor alone and risk the final gen being done in your face.
In other words, DS is preventing me from the making the play I think is the best call despite my actively not tunneling (ie respecting its activation condition). That's weaponized. I don't really care if bodyblocking is what's causing my problem, it's that DS is a get out of jail free card from the consequences that should come with making that decision. You can disagree with me, but that doesn't make you right, and I shouldn't be forced into a situation like that by a perk that is patently not designed to make that situation possible.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712492#Comment_3712492
Well, I'll try and alleviate that concern a little, because I do have an answer.
It did affect my decision making, yes, but the decision I made is better for me than for my opponent. As I've said multiple times in this thread, I do not consider a weapon that harms its user more than its opponent to be a weapon worth talking about or naming as such.
In the scenario you describe, you say that a survivor body blocking and not having DS means they're hooked again and that's more pressure for you, but it isn't, really, it's just more direct progression towards your goal. You're at best breaking even on the map pressure you're exuding because you're just resetting back to the same situation as before; one on hook, one coming for the save, two on gens. The two on gens haven't even stopped this whole time, for that matter.
You get more pressure from slugging the survivor who tries to body block regardless of if they have DS, because you're making more of a push for reactions from the survivor team. If they have Unbreakable, they have to use it and get it out of the way. If they don't, one of the two on gens actually has to come pick them up and that does even more damage to the team's overall efficiency, all while you're still occupying that unhooker in a chase.
Countering DS bodyblocking turns it into a tactic that benefits you. That's not weaponising, because it's your weapon.
I see, but this relies soley on the idea that DS Bodyblock is always detrimental to the survivors. Which, if this were true, killers would slug the first survivor off hook all the time, because that would therefore always be the best thing to do, right?
Hypothetical. There's 1 gen left, and someone Body Blocks you off hook with DS, the unhooker is on death hook. Is your mindset "oh boy the next survivor is absolutely making it to the next god Pallet, but at least I have a slug while the last gen is being done across the map." Or are you thinking "I need that Unhooker dead right nooooooooow." Is Adrenaline in play? Is Unbreakable in play? You don't know either of these things. Depending on that answer, there's one or two survivors on the final gen, and that slug won't be slugged for longer than thirty seconds. You've lost five seconds of distance on the Unhooker, can you make it?
My mindset is the latter, I assume you're the former. This is likely where the crux of our disagreement lies. I simply don't see DS as nearly as hard to get genuine use out of in this context, and I don't believe these situations are as uncommon as you.
I don't want it to seem like I'm calling you crazy or anything, and tbh it's disappointing to see how uncivil people are about this. I'm still honestly less peeved about the actual perk effect and more annoyed that it's on what's supposed to be an Anti-Tunnel perk, and that a lot of survivors try the strat and then get upset in the endgame chat when it backfires. I liked 3 second DS more simply because at this current point in the games life where Tunneling was already one of the most hotly debated topics, buffing it to 5 seconds feels like a Bandaid for the strat without actually solving it whilst allowing for another toxic situation that doesn't even fit how the perk is designed.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712481#Comment_3712481
To be blunt, no, those things aren't weaponising DS. They're weaponising bodyblocking.
The core of my position is two statements, I'm gonna repeat them now just for easy reference.
Statement one: The survivor cannot force the killer to eat a DS stun, not even as the lesser of two evils like they could before the Conspicuous Actions change.
Statement two: The only thing the survivor can do is force the killer to slug them, and BECAUSE that outcome is always better for the killer than the survivor being up and about, that can't be considered weaponising.
You may end up in a position with DS bodyblocking where someone makes a pallet or a window, or a key generator gets done, or something along those lines. But, barring a very specific single perk in a very specific situation (Adrenaline, with the final gen being the one done because of this play— and even then they're injured instead of healthy afterwards), you will always have a slug on the ground while you recover from that blow, which is always better than that survivor being free to do whatever they want.
The reason WHY a killer's time is more valuable than a survivor's time is relevant here, too. The killer's time is more valuable because any one of their seconds spent outside of chase could be four seconds of generator time. Basically nothing else matters for this very specific concept, and in fact, pushing survivors to do other beneficial actions like healing is part of how killers spread pressure and play the macro game. Their goal, minute to minute, is to lower that "one second for me is four seconds for them" number as much as possible by forcing survivors into actions that aren't repairs, like saves, heals, and chases.
So, we can see with this in mind how a survivor slugged on the ground is always beneficial compared to that survivor being free to do what they want. If they're slugged, they're not contributing to that "one second is four seconds" number, but if they're up and about they are.
That's why your math is a little off, because you're not factoring in that you're already occupying two survivors. That 21.6 seconds number you cite is actually 10.8 seconds because only two survivors are actually using those seconds to progress the game, potentially.
To cap off, I'm actually not thinking of this perk in isolation. I am factoring in these things, which is why I come to the conclusion that the best case scenario that survivors can force with DS is still beneficial to the killer in at least some way. Even when survivors get as much as they can out of it, they're still giving the killer slowdown and potentially using up resources like Unbreakable.
To be blunt, no, those things aren't weaponising DS. They're weaponising bodyblocking.
I don't really know how to approach this conversation given this statement, as it feels so completely devoid of context within the match it makes the rest of the conversation essentially untraversable.
I'll say this, if someone Body Blocks and doesn't have DS, that survivor is on death hook and I have even more pressure than five seconds ago. If that survivor has DS, I'm getting a five second stun. No, a survivor a cannot force you to activate their perk, that does not prevent them from reaping the reward the perk grants them by nature of its presence. You made this argument yourself by saying the best thing to do against DS is purposely not pick up the surv, meaning DS actively affected your decision making process in the bodyblocking. How a perk can completely change the action you take in a situation, yet somehow be exempt from weaponizing said situation is something I simply don't feel like arguing over.
If that hasn't convinced you that DS affects bodyblocking and allows it's weaponization, therefore being weaponized in the process, I don't really think this is a conversation worth either of our times, sorry.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712458#Comment_3712458
Not necessarily. I've had a lot of matches swing from two hooks to a 4k specifically because of tactics like this.
The fact of the matter is, letting the killer down you is always a huge risk. It's only really guaranteed to work if they take the bait and eat a stun, but if they don't, you've just given them a window to potentially snowball that game back into their control because they're creating a lot of situations the survivors need to respond to.
Also, again, people keep acting like slugging a DS user means starting a new chase, but it doesn't. You're already in a chase and that survivor didn't make that much distance, you keep chasing them. Sure, sometimes they have a very specific setup that makes chasing them a nightmare, but the times where a bodyblock makes the difference between them making it and you getting them are pretty damn rare.
The bottom line would be that immobilising a survivor on the ground is always better for you than that survivor going off to do generators. Hooking that survivor would be even better, but hooking that survivor isn't a situation that would be relevant to this conversation, so we necessarily must compare slugging them to them just being off and doing whatever they want away from you.
True, I've been able to swing a few matches from a 2 hooks to a 4k involving these strats, but that depends largely on survivor misplay, which again puts this "Anti-Tunnel Perk" back into their control. This playstyle is fundamentally against the perks design activation condition, which is to punish killers who won't leave unhooked survivors alone. It's why the Conspicuous Action condition is there.
Hooking is absolutely important when referring to this perk, because it's what the killer is trying to do. If that logic where applied uniformly, gens are off the table too. DS stops the killer from getting a hook on a down, therefore being downed is now only valuable to the killer from a slowdown or bait perspective. Ergo, hooking survivors is relevant to the discussion by nature of it being off the table when it usually is.
And yes, survivors aren't always in the position for the unhooker to basically disappear or become unhookable, but what happens when they are? What happens when a survivor or a team goes into a match with this strategy in mind? Is that not weaponizing DS? Is this still somehow related to tunneling?
I also feel like Unbreakable is just largely being ignored as a possibility here. There are 4 survivors in a match, so a killer's time is 4 times more valuable than a survivors. A killer's weapon wipe is 2.7 seconds. Not counting the amount of time a killer may waste before realizing they need to hit the unhooked survivor, that's 5.4 seconds wasted on hits, 21.6 seconds in survivor time. With Unbreakable, 24 seconds wasted in survivor time on a single survivor is used to commit to the play. Yes, a killer's advantage, but keep in mind again that this is within a survivor's control, and they could have altered the situation before going into it to waste more time.
In the current situation, yes, I agree that DS bodyblock is a misplay. But there's a lot of BS in DBD, doubly so now that the latest patch is filled with enough bugs to make Bethesda blush. Do you think that there is no match that occurs where a survivor can waste five seconds for a killer, not get hooked for it, and the killer is the one who ends up benefitting? You don't think that on Midwich or The Game, an unhooker can make it to a window or pallet that justifies why a survivor team would choose to delay a hook for as long as possible? What if the killer is an Instadown killer like Oni or Bubba? That unhooker is a lot more vulnerable, the survivor team may have much more incentive to keep them safe for longer than an unhooked who's guaranteed not to get picked up without wasting even more of a killer's time. How about Plague? She loses Red Vomit on DS stun now, that's even more safety for the survivor. What if the Unhooker is on death hook? You'd definitely want that DS Bodyblock to make sure they don't die right there and then.
We can't be referring to this perk in isolation, because there are many factors wherein it simply becomes a better option than the alternative. This isn't an unpopular opinion either, it was a top 10 comp perk before it was buffed.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712377#Comment_3712377
That's not a lose/lose situation. That is a lose/win situation, because having one survivor slugged and one in chase is better for you than just having one in chase.
It used to be a lose/lose scenario because ignoring the survivor with DS meant they could progress the game in your face. Now, if you ignore them and they want to bait you, they have to waste time running around after you and trying to bodyblock.
It depends on the state of the match, no?
If the killer only has 2 hooks and the survs are at 2 gens, the survs being able to delay the possibility of a hook is a win-win for them, regardless of whether one of them goes down, because time is ultimately on their side, especially if another teammate is in the area for a pickup or unbreakable is in play. The survivor has no hooks, and the killer's only map pressure comes from someone they can't use to progress their objective. In this situation I would rather be halfway through chasing the unhooker with the unhooked survivor healing or on a gen than have so much time wasted with a slug I can't pick up and nobody new to chase in sight, but that's just me.
That said, if there's a time and point in the match where the killer is up, like 6 hooks 4 gens, a DS bodyblock isn't nearly as effective because the killer doesn't need to rush with finishing their objective, so I'd actually perfer getting two survivors off gens, less so if Unbreakable is in play, but that's a whole perk deactivated. One could make the argument that this line of thinking could apply to many other perks, but DS bodyblock being almost entirely within a survivor's control, having such a possibly annoying effect, especially when this is supposed to be for an Anti-tunnel perk, it just feels bad. If you'll notice, tunneling isn't at all relevant to the playstyle we're referring to, so what did I do to get it incurred on me, what was my agency here in activating a perk that was only supposed to be useful depending on the killer's playstyle?
That's ultimately my issue with current DS. I don't think it's an issue at all when it's actually an Anti-tunnel perk, but when I'm halfway through a MacMillan match where 2 gens pop in the first minute, I challenge my single unhook up to this point in the game, and then Meg fr decides to give me the biggest hug of her life while Vittorio sprint bursts to main building where I know he's got Boil Over to use upstairs, I'm sorry, but the Anti-Tunnel perk made me tunnel. I didn't wanna, but what else was I genuinely going to do there?
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She didn't deserve the hand she was given, but she played it well. RIP to a fantastic VA.
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A whole lot of dreadful answers here. I'd say it's the newest patch bugging so much of the game out. Depending on your region, it could've caused a lot of players in your area to put the game down.
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@Doxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708879#Comment_3708879
These posts are all about making killers stronger. It gets old. Survivors have nerfed perks and it gets old. Even the new characters have pretty much useless perks. I play survivor and get hit with something crazy and like....whoa what is that!!! Oh that's a cool perk. Here though anything good gets a big crying show that it needs nerfed. I lost to show you how old it gets seeing the same posts to buff killers over and over and over again.
Thoroughly irrelevant to the matter at hand. This is the topic of the post, if you want to make a post about what's on your mind, you are more than free to do so.
If these killer buff requests are so common, it might be because some killers need them.
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I like Spies as is, and I'd honestly just change crows to make them more present throughout the match.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708843#Comment_3708843
Thats true, but reworks should only be for things that need it because whenever you rework a character you are likely going to be changing it for people the way it already is.
Michael doesn't need it to do what the character is trying to do for fans of his franchise and he is not something that most people have a problem facing. Not only are there bigger fish to fry but Michael is not really a problem and from what I know is quite liked by a lot of newer players so I don't think he should be changed.
Michael is often considered one of the worst characters in the game and is also one of the most frequent requests for a rework.
He doesn't need a major one, but off the top of my head.
-Moving Faster in Tier 1 and maybe extend the lunge. He should still be slower than average, but he's so sluggish it currently feels awful.
-Tier 2 could use more to make it interesting as it's the tier you spend the most time in during most matches. Maybe a passive ability of sorts could work.
-Rework stalking so you're encouraged to do it from a distance, as the current way it works incentivises just walking up unstealthily and pressing the button. Not very faithful to his character.
-Minor addon pass to balance some of his more ridiculous ones out. Tombstone has been broken since literally ever. Aside from that he's actually got some of the best designed add-ons in the game imo, as they all encourage different playstyles.
-Regain Stalk Points after awhile. Shouldn't be too much as to discourage tunneling, but Michael shouldn't be the only killer without a power after enough time has passed.
Would all these make him more competitively viable? Yes. Would they compromise his faithfulness as a character, I don't think so.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708670#Comment_3708670
I chose F4 because we all know that Bethesda is on par with BHVR bugs concerning (although they are a lot larger than BHVR). Is it good to have such a buggy game? No. The only difference is, that it's not BHVRs own engine they have to deal with.
I understand your frustration and especially the rubberbanding gets me, but that is the worst I had to deal with so far. I did not even encounter the strobo glitch once fir example.
Also rerolling is not easily done because consoles have special requirements for releasing updates. So they probably cannot do it.
I have encountered the Strobe glitch about six times, had at least three matches where I couldn't break a pallet, and about four instances of map collision simply not working, alongside the rubber banding issue pretty consistently.
Our different viewpoints seem to be at least somewhat tied to our different experiences with this update. Even if rerolling isn't possible, that's all the more reason why each and every update needs to polished since there is quite literally no going back once it's out.
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@Unusedkillername said:
Michael does not need a rework
He is awful and a bottom-tier character that the game has left behind… and that is ok he is a licensed character that perfectly fulfils the fantasy that is playing as Michael Myers for fans of the Halloween franchise. I recently had a friend who's a fan of Halloween get into the game and when he did they kept saying how much he loved him, and BHVR did him justice, and how his power was perfect for the character.
If a licensed character is not trying to be a good character but is trying to do right by the character as long as its not a pain for regular players to play against and harmful to the game's health then I'm fine with them being trash.
Michael can stay faithful to his identity as a character without comprising his competitive viability. There are a number of ways to add to his kit that keeps his core power intact.
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I'd maybe make the half jump to 150%, just to bridge the gap without it becoming meta defining again. I'd take an activation requirement too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Tbf no Killer should be stuck with that default chase theme in 2024.
Old post but very true. It's still weird to me that Plague doesn't have her own theme either.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708595#Comment_3708595? Is this a loading error?
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708384#Comment_3708384
Tbh I don't know when and how exactly the Devs were notified of the support ending soon.
We only know that they work on the updates way before they are released and I can imagine that the engine update took a lot of manpower from the other updates.
Also "fixing a light switch can result in the elevator not working anymore, because the wires are not installed correctly". This is an analogy my friend likes to use when talking about Bugfixes. You may fix one issue but get 2 more in return.
Just look at Fallout 4's Next Gen update. It has more bugs than the base game had before.
Using a Bethesda game when talking about bugs isn't really a flattering comparison for DBD. Fallout 4 and the rest of the series are notorious for bad programming and especially horrendous bugs (although New Vegas still goes hard). If this update took a lot more resources than usual, I'd say the next few chapters are in some extremely hot water.
I have worked with programming in the past, and you are absolutely right that engine switches result in more bugs, which is exactly why this update should've been polished far more before release, especially considering that it aside, there wasn't much of anything substantiative added. Haddonfield was reworked, that's cool. UW was gutted and the five Twins players in the game got a QoL update. What else? The shop looks fresh…
This update, out of all of them, had the absolute least reason to not be pushed back, as the trials themselves are almost unchanged and so many new issues were added they farrrrr outweigh the positives.
If it wasn't for the fact that new content is being added in June (ie deadlines), I'm certain that simply delaying or rolling back the update altogether would've resulted in a far more playable experience.
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It was most certainly not always that way, I agree. Honestly, I don't like vsing Plague very much so this feels nice, but it's annoying that the devs didn't explain or even mention the change.
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NoeD, despite being cleansable, provides guaranteed instadown and doesn't have a tell until after the survivor is hit, whereas Terminus relies on prior injuries. Additionally, NoeD also speeds the killer up, which pairs well with other Endgame perks like Batteries.
Terminus isn't bad, it's just outclassed, and is one of the few Endgame perks I can't really recommend running by itself. I tend to pair it with BW, NWO, or Batteries for the best results.
It's an alright perk, and I'm glad it's here, but I'm not crazy for it tbh.
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@Xernoton said:
Let us add to the list an exploit with Potential Energy, invisible traps, laggy servers (playing Huntress right now should be a crime), Balanced Landing, Twins and skirtless Ada. And these are juts the issues I know of. On top of the already existing bugs.
I know that an engine update is a big deal but this is unacceptable. If an update breaks pretty much the entire game, then it's a horrible update and it should be reverted immediately while they work on a solution. You can't keep breaking the game like this. Fixing this mess will take quite some time and if history has taught us anything, more bugs are just around the corner when it comes to future patches.
invisible traps
Not the buff Trapper needs, but one he deserves.
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@Sava18 said:
WIth how little changes they make a ptb like that shouldn't come into existence. They spend literal months and come up with blantently bad changes, small amount of changes and just bewildering changes such as the mere idea of the twins rework, soul chemical and summoning stone going from mid but interesting to trash and lame, DS animation being removed. This patch amounted to almost nothing, years spent talking about the twins rework for them to get slight number changes and nothing else.
You don't spend 1 and a half months to make nothing changes and when one big patch a year. I'd like to think there's no more than 2 devs on the balance team, one that thinks up the changes and one that implements them into the game.
The reality though is that frustrating games can be ever growing if they get properly updated but bhvr even if they have some how upped their game since I joined in 2021 is so below expectation that it isn't the case.
I think that might be the worst part of it all. With the Twins rework being reverted, the DS buff and Haddonfield rework are basically the only changes worth noting (ig aside from the new shop UI and UW)
With such relatively small content for a mid chapter, it feels all the more insulting that they still updated to UE5 and introduced Pandora's Box of Bugs on us.
There definitely needs to be more balancers and bug fixer's hired, although I imagine the spaghetti code means training new employees is a nightmare.
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Xbox Series X currently! I've had three instances of it in the Basement and a messy endscreen after around 12 hours of playing.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
You can always join the Spies From The Shadow fanclub.
Another believer! Spies has won me more games than I can count.
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@sukre1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706640#Comment_3706640
Read post. If I have prestiged many killers then I would have been playing alot.....yes?? My goodness.
Yes it pretty much has reached its conclusion. I'd like to see a dbd 2 online similar too until dawn/ quarry where the online is choices. Most choices picked goes that option while the killer is looking in a bigger environment
Depends how much you consider "a lot." By DBD standards, many people consider anything below a thousand hours beginner and to truly be a 'pro' you need at least tens of thousands of hours to keep up with the best of the best (the people capable of pulling off thousand winstreak games)
If you've prestiged every killer once, that's a drop in the bucket compared to I'd say 90% of the people here.
A DBD 2 would be great, but blaming a game with 35 killers and however many maps for not having enough to keep you invested is strange. This is an online game, it's not like you were ever going to level up, it's just the trials, bloodweb, archive, and shop. You don't really need much else.
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I'd say the software only really qualifies as cheating if it's intentionally being used to hear and find players/important objects faster. If it's just someone trying to remove Plague's vomit noises so they don't puke, please do!
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
Also bump up the pitiful default survivor BP per game
Absolutely, solo Q is already unbearable enough as is, giving them only 7-25k per match is probably one of the reasons why a lot of new players quit.
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I dislike playing against Nurse, Blight, and oddly enough, Plague.
Nurse and Blight are pretty self explanatory, there's just not a lot you can do in some situations. Although I recently had a fantastic game vs Nurse with a friend and two god gamer randos where I was able to get about a minute and a half chase against her in endgame. That was cool.
Plague is a little different, as it just always feels like you're on the backfoot against her. Vomit is incredibly easy to inflict and will eventually result in getting injured, and on top of that she gets the best ranged power in the game for a limited amount of time. It just feels like she has a B tier slowdown/permainjure power on top of an A tier Ranged power. I think this is mostly a me thing though, as I can't find many other players with the same issue.
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I enjoy interacting with it for only about 3 days or so a week so it doesn't get played out. That said, I'd still say I play well over 15 hours a week on average, which is a lot for a recreational activity, especially across my younger years when I was a lot more involved in the game.
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I think the issue isn't lack of passion from the devs, it's that they're working on 4 chapters at a time, tons of cosmetics, modes, events, archives, tomes, meetings over licensing rights, etc.
It seems that whoever is time managing at BHVR wants the company to put so many resources towards new content that makes money, that balancing, reworks, map changes, QoL etc. all get shafted. You can't really expect the devs themselves to be able to juggle so much at once, but it is absolutely on the higher ups at BHVR to stop reaching for our wallets so often and to direct their incredibly cunning and otherwise competitent team to give more time to projects that need it.
Look at the Twins rework for example. A standard chapter includes a from the ground up killer, survivor, and map that needs to be made. That's been said to take about a year to develop, yet changing around a single killers power took YEARS of blubbering and non answers only for a poorly thought out redesign and some good QoL, only for the Power change to be axed after basically everyone in the community recognized immediately it was a design potentially stronger than Nurse.
I refuse to believe that was a scenario brought forth by the same team capable of beating the camera system into submission in order for a seamless Chucky experience. Rather, it sounds much more reasonable to me that the Twins rework was the result of one or a few people working on it on their off hours after a few initial design pitches failed and had to shoulder most of the programming themselves for years until they could finally present a design that was halfbaked because it didn't get the eyes it needed on it.
The issue I don't think is that the devs don't care, it's that they're spread so incredibly thin and constantly choked by deadlines that unfortunately major issues can be ignored just because they aren't on the list.
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Silent Hill 2 was on PS2 so idk why BHVR couldn't outdo that in the first place, but a fix would definitely be welcome!
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704515#Comment_3704515
Grim Embrace is meant to synergize with Pain Res, they come from the same killer.
So did Pentimento, is it really that necessary or healthy for the game to design two currently S Tier slowdown perks to work alongside each other just because they're from the same killer? Especially when the other perk in her kit distinctly doesn't have this limitation, although Pentimento can be problematic in its own right.
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@TieBreaker said:
Destroy both add-ons and replace them with this new add-on:
Uber Tombstone Slab
After hooking all survivors once each, Myers enters Tier 4. From this point in the match till the trial is over, Myers can insta down and Mori all survivors.
Busted, yet much healthier.
I'd actually be fine with this, provided you have to stalk in tier 3 to get it.
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M1 Killers actively choose to play characters they know aren't topping the tier lists, so I'd say that by nature their playerbase is inherently less competitive and thus less likely to use annoying sweaty strategies than the high tiers.
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@MagicJoe said:
I liked Scott Jund's idea of giving survivors more options while they're in the dying state, so players that are slugged still have some agency and makes it a bit more interesting. Maybe BHVR could even add new perks that only work while slugged that don't just pick you up. Like giving other survivors more repair speed if you're on the ground or something.
This right here is the best idea imo. I wouldn't be as upset about being on the ground for minutes if I could actually do something while on it. Right now it feels hopeless if your teammates don't want to play or just aren't experienced enough.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I just wish we can skip quickly pass this mid chapter because its nothing exciting in it.
Honestly same. Twins basically being gave up on turned this into the Halloween and shop update, and while it's cool Haddonfield might finally be well designed, my blood isn't exactly pumping rn. Hopefully the anniversary is well executed, although leaks have kinda spoiled the surprise already.
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There's a lot of the same people on the forums yeah, but it seems to vary depending on how relevant the game is, so I imagine there's going to be more people when the new chapter comes.
As for the game, I'd actually say it's been pretty W as of late. I can't imagine the game without the antihook mechanic or anti 3 gen, and every killer Singularity onwards I've been pretty happy with, so I hope they manage to keep the streak.
Ignoring the current dumpster fire that is PTB Twins, I feel like the reworks have been mostly W as of late. I want to see the anniversary roadmap soon so hopefully there's info on a Freddy and/or Myers rework.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702235#Comment_3702235
I firmly believe the hate for Skull Merchant is a result of something else going on. We've seen every aspect of her hated on since her inception, and while some complaints are or were valid—her original power was awful, yeah—many others are irrational. Skull Merchant is always met with people wanting her deleted and replaced entirely, which is obviously ignorant of how game development actually works. People said she was a lost Predator license, because she had a kind of similar weapon and then literally nothing else lined up.
People have been making things up and refusing to actually sincerely analyze the killer since her inception, and the hate people have for her makes her attractive to players who want to be annoying and toxic—Not her actual kit, just how people perceive the killer. People who don't like SM then use these players as faulty evidence something is wrong with the killer on a fundamental level—There isn't. People just refuse to try and engage with the killer's design and character with any fairness at all.
Pixel Bush's guide turned a lot of people around to her! He's gone over the nuances of her power, the interesting strategies she can employ, and some people have seen that and changed their minds! When people give her a fair chance they're pretty conducive—I mean, it's anecdotal, but I really like going against her myself! Another rework won't fix people's irrational behavior around the killer, it won't fix the problem, it's just going to tear a fun killer away from people that like her.
Call it my anecdotal evidence, but I haven't seen literally anything positive regarding her aside Pixel's video, and I won't say that even helped in game, as I still can hardly get past third hook stage without a DC or hook suicide. I would examine the way I play for causing it, but it happens so often before or directly following first down that I don't really think it is anything but the killer I chose.
It doesn't really matter if a killer can be fun to play, if the matches they're involved in aren't. Skull Merchant in my experience can be a joy to face, since she has such a large bag of tricks to pull from, but I can hardly say the ends justify the means when Yui decided she didn't want to play anymore after getting hooked halfway through and now we aren't even allowed to have a bot to keep playing because I guess she didn't want the DC Penalty. Genuinely, I can count on two hands the amount of actual matches I've played with her, and it's not for lack of trying.
Now, how do we fix this? If a rework is off the table, and her current killrate is 10% past the norm, do we just…call it? Do the devs make a statement that says "SM is fine, just learn to vs her?" Is that really going to benefit the community in the long run?
I just don't see what the proposal is here. SM is problematic, and it doesn't matter if the hate from the community is warranted, because it's there, and it ruins most of the matches she's apart of. If a rework is off the table, what is the plan?
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702200#Comment_3702200
Normally I agree, but both these perks are from Licensed Killers which are behind paywall (More expensive even)
That's why I'm considering
If you don't want either of the chapters and can't ever see yourself buying the killers, then def go for it! They're certainly good perks to have on hand.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702222#Comment_3702222
A rework didn't fix it. There's no reason to believe a second would. Besides, she's mechanically fine these days—there could maybe be a little more reward for hacking drones but most of the issues people have with her stem from their lack of knowledge as to what she does, and their refusal to play against her to learn how to counter her power in the first place.
Not working the first time isn't really an excuse to stop trying, Legion and Billy can attest to that. Regardless of how many arguments there are about whether or not Skul Merchant is fine power wise, we need to at least understand that poorly designed killers don't tend to get a bad rap after "good" reworks, so Skull Merchant is either an outlier, or there's something else going on.
And that's assuming she is fine. Her current power is extremely oppressive against new survivor, given her ability to apply so many status effects at once. She basically gets Undetectable whenever she wants, and in a much more expendable manner than other killers. Her power shuts down loops, can apply lasting debuffs, even get a cheeky hit, need I go on?
Now, I'm not gonna argue she's the best killer out there, or even that's she's a good killer in the first place, but I feel like it goes without saying that playing as her is significantly easier than playing against her, just by the way she's designed.
Do I know how to fix Skull Merchant? No, but I don't think throwing up our hands and saying "ah, it's fiiiiiiiine" is going to get us anywhere either. SM isn't suddenly going to become a liked or even tolerated killer until something changes, and that's a fact.
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@Royval said:
Explain how Skull needs a rework
How or why?
How? I dunno, not a game dev.
Why? Because she's the most disliked killer by such a wide margin that her kill rate is bloated because of survivors giving up against her. Idk how that's going to be fixed without a rework.
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I'd save for the killer. That's three perks plus a power.
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@Dinoraptus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701334#Comment_3701334
I always figured, buy one for $15 which also counts as owning the character, and then whatever one you don't own becomes regularly priced/discounted 1080 auric cells if you want it too, since having one would mean you own the character.
Sounds good to me, the devs should try it! Bloody Xeno Queen sounds sick.
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A great idea, but how does the pricing work out for that? Is it 15$ for the bloody cosmetic or can you unlock it after getting the og? I'm def down with the idea, but I don't want it to be an excuse for all Chris skins to be 15$, y'know?
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@Seraphor said:
Changing maps based on the killer would be a bit too much work.
However, I generally think that there should be more map variations. If every map in the game had a least two variations, then they could be designed to be: survivor sided and killer sided, or favouring LoS killers and LoS blocking killers.
Then even when a map offering is played, there's still a fair RNG element so it's not a guaranteed advantage, and you could give weighting depending on the killer. If it's a stealth killer, you get the version with the most LoS blockers, etc.
A much better take than mine imo, as most maps don't really need to be catered to a specific killer, but rather just have certain aspects of design that favor a killer type. It's much more feasible that they design a map variation designed around ranged killers, chase/burst killers, and stealth killers respectively and then swap between them depending on the match.
Tbh though, I think an inevitable thing that would happen with this change is the devs put in a killer with the wrong variation and for some reason don't change it back for years like they sometimes do. Watch Dredge players be put in the stealth maps despite his directional phasing or smt.