Archol123
Archol123
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@_Onyx_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719243#Comment_3719243
I agree with this completely. "Far fetched" is the perfect phrase to some up peoples offense to this BMing.
The first time I saw the original iteration of this was a Demogorgon, portal spamming against (I think it was Skermz). Every other Killer w/s spamming doesn't even come close to this. And even the Demogorgon one can be avoided because it has to animation spam, you can crawl away while they set up for it.
But yeah, I agree with you. This shouldn't really be an issue. It just seems like people wanting to be offended and someone rallied their viewers to mass protest.
I saw it in two JRM videos, that stuff was hillarious, it looks so funny when he does the motion :D
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@RockyChan said:
It is well known that sometimes trials get a bit heated for various reasons resulting on survivors teabagging the killer or killers hitting hooked survivors or nodding at downed/hoorked survivors.
The aforementioned situations are somewhat accepted and part of the game experience. However, many killer players are spamming W and S from behind a downed survivor imitating a #########. This is a distasteful and offensive behavior that simply cannot be part of the game experience given that women, minors and sexual abuse victims are part of the Dead by Daylight community.
Flashlight click-spam was nerfed because it was irritating for killer players, I think THIS is a way more sensitive and serious situation since it can be triggering on a sensitive topic therefore I respectfully ask developers to address this issue.
Thanks for your time
Minors are part of the community of an 18+ rated game… That really is not an argument, we don't take into account people that are legally not allowed to even play the game.
Walking back and forth on a downed person is very far off from that, and before people on the forums brought this up I never even considered this to be the case, not even with a lot of imagination and I still think it is very far fetched. The origin of t-bagging is sexual and ghostface or pig can for example t-bag a downed survivor, you want to make that banable as well? Considering you are fine with survivors doing that to the killer? I mean sure the killer is not lying on the ground, but at least that term/behaviour has clearly such origins despite not being performed on top of the downed survivor, so what is the difference that one is fine and the other one is not?
I think both are completely fine, there is no animation that resembles anything like that, is just a goofy bm move and if you remove it people will come up with the next thing to be immature and petty towards each other. I really don't think this is problematic at all… Teabagging and this w s stuff are both so far away from their origin (or in the w s case the origin people seem to think it has…) that if you don't know it you would not even think about it… Besides is the point where we basically have an allowed bahaviour, walking over downed survivors, that is only supposed to be bannable based on ill itent? Would be a little bit weird wouldn't it?
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@Rawrbot5k said:
It also prevents the killer from building blood thirst. So he's stuck at the stock 115% if he uses his power at all. With perks survivors can out run him all day every day. SO he's still an M1 killer because as is his abilities just annoy and slow the game down but don't actually give him any advantage in the actual taking down of survivors.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719142#Comment_3719142
What are you talking about? If you play him normally without overshocking you still don't gain bloodlust, but you will eventually catch up to the survivor and hit him, because you prevented him from using pallets or windows?? What do you mean his shock does not give him an advantage in downing a survivor?? Do you even know how doctor works or what is this?
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717671#Comment_3717671
Downside is you cant down someone by shocking. So the opportunity to get away is still there. Spam shocking is annoying but does nothing really. Which is my whole point.
But how do you get away with either a killer with more than 115% ms is right behind you, or you don't get distance while getting shocked or you even get stunned by the shock? The shock window is longer than the window in which he cannot attack… So where exactly do you go with that "opportunity to get away"?
Spam shocking puts you at a disadvantage because you will lose additional distance, which is why it is a good thing that you get slowed down for using the shock because otherwise it would require 0 skill and there would be no reason to not just constantly shock, at any given loop, which would be super annoying.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718691#Comment_3718691
It was not
Saying that just show that you never use it to try to be safe after a tunnel or camping killer, 3 secondes, is just nothing, you can do anithing with just 3 (2.6secondes in reality) to be safeWell I think it was, it just wasn't as good against killers with range attack for example.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718692#Comment_3718692
Well that's your opinion we can agree to disagree on that subject, I don't see the value in having it outside of playing against bad killers who rely on tunneling, which you should be able to run them anyway without it
I mean sure it has more value against the worse killers, but that does not make it bad or useless against the stronger ones. More than half the roster of killers need to catch up with the distance you got during this time. Sure some can hit you from distance or blink right on top of you like Nurse for example, but it is still quite the time loss for the killer, and especially in addition with Dead hard and OTR against hard tunneling it works really well, as after it you are no longer in deep wounds, so you can benefit from dead hard again.
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@ays12151 said:
I just want to share with my ideas to change Oni's Add-Ons and his base kit a little bit.
While the base kit change is allright, I guess. Some of those addons are quite busted. Increased range of blood orb aura seems pretty useless to and I don't think people would run it.
Bloody sash does not really seem worth it, considering how slow the passive charge rate is anyway and the additional 3% only during ult, when you more often then not won't kick gens anyway, because you have better stuff to do is not really enough to make the perk decent.
I don't like the purple or Iridescent addons. Oni arguable has one of the if not the strongest power in the game, some people say he would be the strongest killer in the game if his power was not time limited, and I think that is probably true. Messing with his cooldowns during his Blood fury might make his power way too opressive, so I'm not really a fan of decreased missed demon dash. Gaining undetectable during his demon dash without any condition is also really strong, not only does he move with nearly 200% ms and almost fully steering, now you won't even get a proper warning that he is coming, that is probably too much to still be somewhat balanced.
The iridescent family crest is probably the least problematic of those, but when you are using your dash around a tile it will probably help a lot if you see the aura of the guy you are trying to flick, so they cannot really hide in a corner or try something similar to that to avoid getting 180° by the Oni, which just ruins his counterplay in those situations.
Renjiro bloody glove is probably the most busted addon out of those… Using this + duration and lethal pursuer makes it quite possible to slug the whole team before the power even runs out if the Oni is really good, and even if not it will lead to at least 2 downs… The bonus required charges really does nothing, because at that point two people are downed, at least one is probably hooked and they leave blood orbs everywhere, you will probably not have an issue with getting your power for the rest of the 2 min bloodbath you are about to create in this game.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718641#Comment_3718641
It's not a trash perk but it's definitely not one of the best anymore
I disagree. It is easily one of the best perks in the game.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718642#Comment_3718642
because of his recent buff at 5 seconds back, when it was 3, you don't practically see it
Dunno if 4 gonna do something, but for me, when I play survivor, I'm not gonna take it anymore, the only people who gotta take it, it's just for bullying, or using it at an offensive way, not in the defensive wayEven when it was 3 seconds it was a really good perk, maybe not top 10, but nowhere near trash.
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@ChainsLogic said:
They should change the Broken key to just a normal green key that can open the hatch basekit. Really strange that you can spend time going through a chest only to find a useless item. They could call it Rusty key or something like that.
They could just remove different rarities of keys and only keep one.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Make the Broken Keys super duper ultra rare, be found only in chests, and allow them to instantly open one door once the gates have been powered.
Only if there is a killer offering that has a super super ultra rare chance to appear in bloodweb that instantly kills one survivor... That would be around the same level...
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718522#Comment_3718522
It was one before
Since now, there's only one use, and can't be deactivate for no reason at the endgame, or because you try to heal yourself, healing someone else, just by a little missclick
It it not ONE of the best perk in the game, OTR take the place of DS now, and this perk gonna be forgotten for something elseOtr deactivates under the same condition and gets mostly negated by getting hit immediately after unhook... Ds is still top 5 or 10 of perks in the game on survivor side.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718522#Comment_3718522
They aren't wrong honestly it's far removed from its glory days at the top where you could immediately use it without being hooked and it was always ready to go, now there's so many things that can take it away that if the killer isn't trying to actively remove you it's a wasted perk slot, for that alone it's not a top five perk for me personally
Just because it is not completely busted and stupid does not make it a trash perk.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718586#Comment_3718586
Exactly: on average. Remove rng from it and it will become insanely broken perk for how much time it will save.
No... The other two perks on average... You will get around 1 skill check per heal on Autodidakt... It gives you what, 60%? So therefore cutting healtime in about half... Same as well make it and a bit more than botany knowledge... But the point is those two don't really require buildup in the same way.
Removing rng entirely and starting off with 5 stakcs would ofc be better, but otherwise not...
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718555#Comment_3718555
That is so stupid. But I guess they do it so that Blendettes don't win by doing nothing.
The most fair thing would be to come up with a less rng mechanic or just make it a loss for the whole team.
Would be ridiculous to gain mmr by bringing a key and being a Blendette all game long... Or wake up and sole survivor and stuff like that... You could literally teach a completely new player to win like that and therefore reach the top mmr... And unless the gates are 20 m apart they will get out more often then not.
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@SokoyoOwO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718582#Comment_3718582
I'm not saying to exclude any other chance to get skill checks, you can still get random skill checks ontop of the guaranteed one, the perk would be really bad if you had to heal five different survivors to get it to max stacks and never getting any value once you reach five stacks
Ooooh OK, yeah that was not clear to me :D (Maybe add that, if other people misunderstand it as well)
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@fussy said:
This perk is only balanced because of rng aspect, if you want to make it consistent, than its value should be nerfed in half.
I would not say that... Perks like we will make it or botany knowledge reach similar values on average and don't have this weird build up, sure we will make it only lasts for a limited time, but 90 seconds is quite a lot of time.
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@SokoyoOwO said:
I've been running autodidact consistently for about a year now on survivor and noticed that this perk is way more miss than hit in terms of value since you rely on rng to get skill check, so I've been thinking of a way to keep the original idea of the perk while removing some of the rng aspect of the perk, and I came up with this buff idea:
- When you start healing an injured or downed survivor for the first time, you get a difficult skill check (similar to overcharge) and if you suceed at it, you gain an autodidact stack like you would with any other skill check
(Note that this only happens when you start healing a survivor for the first time, so you can't just spam healing actions to get infinite skill checks)
- The guaranteed skill check you get at the start of a heal stops appearing when you reach five stacks (for obvious reasons)
I feel like this would still keep the base concept of the perk while lowering the rng aspect of the perk by making it a bit more consistent, what do ya'll think?While lowering the RNG this might actually end up nerfing the perk... Healing 5 other survivors in one game is really rare, and since you only really get value with 3 stacks the perk is just bad.
Maybe just give it increased skill check odds instead or remove the negative of starting off with skill checks that reduce progress...
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718574#Comment_3718574
‚interaktive film‘ game like Until Dawn, The Quarry, Dark Pictures Anthology (these all from Supermassive Games themselves who also create Frank Stone) or Telltales The Walking Dead. Set in the DbD universe but not in the Entity’s Realm as far as we know.
Thanks for the explanation.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718574#Comment_3718574
‚interaktive film‘ game like Until Dawn, The Quarry, Dark Pictures Anthology (these all from Supermassive Games themselves who also create Frank Stone) or Telltales The Walking Dead. Set in the DbD universe but not in the Entity’s Realm as far as we know.
Hm... OK... Not really my type of game but fine I guess... Would however be a wasted opportunity to not eventually make the main character a playable one in dbd as well.
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What type of game is this even supposed to be?
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718548#Comment_3718548
Yes, it's a draw for the survivor, but the killer's MMR sees no difference, 3k is still a win for him. For killer, draw is 2k.
Isn't there a difference between a 0 and 1 K as well? So why exactly should you not get bonus mmr for the 4th kill as well? You just don't lose any for not getting it, but you lose the points you would have gotten by getting the kill.
If all 1v1s against each survivor themselves count as a win loss or draw it would not make much sense if it would not at least give more mmr for a 4k over a 3k.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718510#Comment_3718510
Hatch escape is treated as a draw, so escaping via gate would be better for the survivor. Unless that is also considered a draw.
I think only after hatch is closed gate is also a draw, before that if all gens got done then it counts as a win.
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Otr does nothing if you get hard tunneled and immediately hit after the unhook, whereas DS still works in those cases. The killer basically knows immediately if you have otr because you don't make injured sounds so if he wants to tunnel he will hit you immediately instead of waiting out the 10 sec base BT.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I was today years old when I realized DS is a 1 time use for the whole trial. I thought you could use each time you got off hook for a total of 2 times…
Then they wanna nerf it? It’s already trash. 🗑️Calling one of the best perks in the game trash is quite the hot take there ^^
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@Junylar said:
You already win with 3k, MMR literally sees no difference between 3k and 4k. Why do you feel the need to go out of your way to make the life even more miserable for the last remaining survivors?
Technically you don't get the additional mmr for the 4th kill... So it is a difference, isn't it?
Why should the 4th survivor get out of the game by random chance anyway? They failed to do their objective.
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717762#Comment_3717762
I wouldn't call it making mistakes. With so many pallets, windows, multiple ways to stop injury, anticamp, basecamp BT etc. the game has been made so easy for survivors there needs to be a counter for killers.
And your counter is a random speed boost when the killer can't manage to get a hit in time...
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@tubalcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717347#Comment_3717347
Game isn't easy enough for survivors already? The same could be said about poor survivors who just w-key across the board to yet another pallet window that exists every 5 feet for them.
If you can't manage to get a hit without Bloodlust that's on you, it's not about easy or hard considering that getting a hit by using Bloodlust is usually not the optimal play so it is not even about having an easier game as survivor just about not getting hit when you weren't supposed to get hit based on your gameplay.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718334#Comment_3718334
Your original does say a, b, or c. The comment I responded to only includes a or b.
At no point does 'or' mean 'and'.
If a b or c clearly means any of them...
It is clearly meant as any of them Alternatively will deactivate the mechanic and not several of need to be the case.
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@jayoshi said:
So we all know that a 2K is a tie. Anything below is a loss and anything above is a win. So when you have a 3K as killer, you won. If a survivor gets out with a hatch or opens the gate to escape, their team still lost and the killer still won. Giving everyone base kit unbreakable is too strong to stop a 4 person slug, but what about a one person slug with only one other person in the game with you? I think that's when a survivor should be able to pick themselves up.
I think majority of players can agree waiting on the ground as a killer stays near you as they look for the last survivor is boring and unhealthy for the game. The killer already won if they just hook that survivor and that survivor then dies. So why not let the survivor who was left on the ground to up themselves. I would even argue if a killer is so many meters close to a survivor - they then get built in endurance for x seconds so they can't just wait for them to get up and then down them again right away in this situation. If I could DC and move on, I would, but I don't want the DC penalty.
It could even be like hook proxy, that if the gates are powered, then a survivor can't bring themselves up.Considering the mmr system counts a hatch escape or everything beyond that point (gate escape after hatch closed) not towards mmr gain or loss the killer technically "loses" those mmr points he does not get because of this mechanic when he does not get the 4th kill… So by that logic alone it is completely fair that he can do that, and since it is probably the most reliable method, considering how random hatch and everything beyond that is I don't see a reason to change that.
If you want to have a look at that whole thing then we might as well come up with something else other than hatch, because it basically saves a survivor from losing mmr points despite not being able to accomplish the goal of doing all gens and escaping.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717836#Comment_3717836
Given that it took months, several nerfs, a killer rework, and a new base kit mechanic to get people to stop 3 genning, this is the most abusable ######### I've ever heard of.
It would take about 20 seconds for the meta to become going afk for an hour to auto-win the match while all the gens are permanently blocked.
See comment above, the 60 min time limit on matchtime was not a thing when this idea was discussed.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718301#Comment_3718301
damn I didn’t even think about that afk thing lol
Technically the 1h time limit was not a thing back then, but obviously people thought about it being problematic in this context as it would have otherwise lead to games just never end.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717836#Comment_3717836
Given that it took months, several nerfs, a killer rework, and a new base kit mechanic to get people to stop 3 genning, this is the most abusable ######### I've ever heard of.
It would take about 20 seconds for the meta to become going afk for an hour to auto-win the match while all the gens are permanently blocked.
I literally said in the beginning it would deactivate after x amount of time… Glad you actually took the time to read that.
" Ideas that were mentioned in that context were for example all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes."
All those conditions apply simultaniously… So it deactivates if a, b or c is (+). -
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718189#Comment_3718189
Typically, the unopen trap is a good indicator of a Trapper. Remember we are talking about a system where gens are locked. The only productive thing a survivor could is find the killer and start a chase so the game can begin. Finding a Trapper early means you avoid the area the Trapper was found.
Still better than just getting gens done immediatly. I don't know how active people would be, even when running Corrupt these days some people just stealth it out entirely and don't even think about touching a generator. Also many survivors are scared of getting chased by the killer early on… So sure if everyone was playing good then yes, but since most people are really bad that is usually not what will happen.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718157#Comment_3718157
Ok, we are talking early game here. The survivor has plenty of options besides the loop you are wasting your time trapping.
Sure but he doesn't know which one is trapped? Unless you are on the most open map ever you will get 2-3 traps down before anybody spots you…And you don't know what the killer is at the beginning of the game, so you probably will not try to find him immediatly and risk going down within seconds.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718147#Comment_3718147
If you want to place all your traps around the hook survivor, you do you.
You can use traps in chase what are you even talking about?
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718072#Comment_3718072
Issue is the killer has a terror radius making them easy to locate. The strength of Trapper is to put down traps so chasing the 1st survivor you see won't go well in the long run. Remember that Trapper has to pick up their power, there's a high chance of seeing a survivor before your "web" is setup.
It would be an improvement compared to the current state, also apparently it is debatable whether or not you should set up a web beforehand or rather start chasing immediatly, as far as I know Hens for example prefers the second idea.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717836#Comment_3717836
Say the killer is the Trapper, the killer that comes to mind with this feature. You block gens until the first chase. Gives plently of time to setup right? No, the correct response is to run into LOS of the killer and trigger a chase as soon as possible. No time to setup and gens are available.
Poor Trapper.
On the other hand a stronger killer can take their time finding the first survivor and get a quick hook before any gen progress had been made.
Ok, even so now he has his first chase, it already improves his situation, and when you have to run close enough towards him to start a chase you are already in his web, it is not like you immediatly know where exactly he spawned either. Even if he does not get to setup 20 traps he can get down like 2-3 until they show up and then he can directly chse them into those traps.
When the strong killer gets a quick down, he beforehand gets a fast chase, and then the feature already deactivates… soooo where is the issue?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717944#Comment_3717944
I mean if you cannot get hits against good players on those tiles because they play really well, no matter what you do, why do you think you should get bloodlust and then the hit? They did everything perfect, and they still get hit because you get a random speed burst.
This is not an unreasonable argument, but the same goes the other way for the killer. The killer is in a 4vs1, which means the killer playing perfectly shouild be always winning a 1vs1 eventually correct? So by the same token, a killer and a survivor player both playing perfectly should result in the killer always winning in a timely manner. This is what happens with the likes of Nurse, Blight, Spirit, etc… these killers win in a timely manner, and almost never build bloodlust because they have powers that do the job better.
If playing a killer that doesn't have a tool to close down a survivor however, even played perfectly, they can't down in an efficient time frame. For these killers why should it be the only way to land a hit be the result of a survivor making a mistake? Well to give that argument a fair shake… if the killer and survivor does everything perfectly at a loop and the killer still can't land a hit because of the way the killer works, then that killer needs to make their strength up in other ways right? This is the arugment with Pig, or Sadako, their slowdown is what affords the weakness.
However other killers, like Myers, are great examples of why this is a problem, he is artificially held up by the fact he can immediately murder someone with Tombstone Piece. He has no slowdown in his kit, he has no map traversal, he has no real anti loop beyond a slightly faster vault and extended lunge. This means without bloodlust, Myers would have to be even more obnoxious with his ability to kill players to remain even remotely relevant.
If you take away bloodlust, what is your advice to a Myers who is trying to loop at low tiles like Wrecker's Yard, or is pursuing a survivor holding W tile to tile with WoO? There isn't really anything he can do about it… there is no skill he can employ to solve this problem…. and while killers like him are in the game, blood lust is still needed.
In an ideal world we wouldn't need it all, all killers would be equally strong… but the fact is blood lust dminishes the difference between higher tier and lower tier killers… and regardless of the diversity of the cast… sadly chase pwoer and map traversal tends to be the decider on what makes a killer good or not… so unless we homogenise all killers to be great at chase, we'll always have killers who are gonna fall short, and blkood lust patches that dvide in a rather limited capacity.
I don't think Bloodlust should exist at all, but at least bloodlust 2 and 3 need to go, they only help the most stubborn type of player that really does not want to kick the pallet no matter the cost.
All that said however it does seem like in a broad way we both agree, just with different motivations.
Myers is a bad example, considering he is a stealth killer is chase ability is naturally rather weak, but he has a small terror radius and can approach without much of a warning and then insta down, if you chase normally with Myers you are either sure you can get the hit, or you messed up, or you are on an open map and don't really have a choice… But I don't think you should need blood lust on him, not saying he does not deserve some buffs to his kit, but I don't think it should be to make him stronger in chase.
What he can do in those situation is force the pallet drop, kick the pallet and either continue the chase or just go find someone else, but not stack up blood lust…
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717879#Comment_3717879
To clean up some terms, hold W to my mind is vaulting or throwing pallets, and instead of sticking to the loop, holding W away from the tile while the killer is on the other side. Commonly you see players running tile to tile when you play lower tier killers, and is more common whether you break the pallet or not (examples where this usually happens are Trapper, Pig, Sadako or Dredge). Against bad players even when they use their resources as poorly as they can, they can still waste in the region of 20+s of my time doing this before I even catch up to them at another tile. I have not infrequetly gotten to blood lust 1 and sometimes 2 just following after them in a straight line after a single Lithe vault.
Against good players, they will obviously greed pallets, maximise the time I spend chasing them, and on a number of tiles with proper use of check spots, it is almost impossible to mind game them. I can double back, turn my red light, pause in place, use all kinds of tricks, and if survivors know check spots and don't makew a silly mistake, you simply can't catch them without running in straight line and forcing them to block windows or throw the God pallet and weaken the tile. Can I go for someone else? Sure,a nd a lot of the time I should (and do). Identifying when you're gonna take way too long on this strong tile is a skill in of itself, but on killers that lack anti-loop, there needs to be a fallback mechanic for scenarios where there is literally nothing else more productive that you can do with your time other than chasing this survivor.
Essentially my argument in favour of BloodLust 1 is: any killer with an anti-loop element of their power, is always better trying to use their power than trying to use bloodlust. Any killer that doesn't have any real anti-loop usually has other elements of their kit that aids them in the trial outside loops… but there are scenarios where building bloodlust is not even really their fault and isn't actively sabotaging their own chances of winning the game for the sake of a kill. Ultimately ending chases efficiently is the main distinction of a strong vs. a weak killer, and this basic mechanic provides a weak chase killer something to fall back on to at least try and break a super strong tile, or cut off a survivor who is just running tile to tile.
That said… BL3 is BS and should aboslutely be removed, and BL2 should be the new maximum with maybe another 5 seconds to trigger it added.
The issue is that depending on how good or bad the tile is leaving it and not engaging in a heavily one sided 50 50 can be the best option, so it is not really their fault for doing so.
I mean if you cannot get hits against good players on those tiles because they play reallywell, no matter what you do, why do you think you should get bloodlust and then the hit? They did everything perfect, and they still get hit because you get a random speed burst.
I would not say that bloodlust is there to break a super strong tile, you're still not going to bloodlust shack or another really good pallet, it mostly harms the gameplay around balanced loops, because they turn onesided with bloodlust.
I don't think Bloodlust should exist at all, but at least bloodlust 2 and 3 need to go, they only help the most stubborn type of player that really does not want to kick the pallet no matter the cost.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717347#Comment_3717347
Main reason Bloodlust needs to stay in the game is due to the effectiveness of hold W against any non dash/non ranged killer.
On someone like Blight, Huntress, Nurse, Spirit or Hillbilly bloodlust doesn't make a lot of sense…. but on a number of weaker killers it defintely does. If survivors play the loop, fair enough, but most don't even bother, and will make 1 loop on a strong pallet and then use lithe as the killer breaks it to vault the window to run to Narnia. This shouldn't be able to waste upwards of 20-30s of the killers time before they even catch up to try again.
Not to mention there are several low tiles or tiles with checkspots where it is almost impossible for an m1 killer with no/weak anti-loop powers like Sadako, Legion, Myers, Pig or Trapper to win a mind game over the survivor unless they make a mistake. The only way to get them to throw the pallet a lot of the time is run after them and disrespect the pallet completely until they are finally forced to throw the thing and hope another strong tile isn't nearby. Someone like Pig or Trapper for example (who do have anti-loop) can't use it 50% of the time, cause if they try, it takes too long and just loses to hold W. It's not a "skill gap" if the only way the killer wins the exchange is if the survivor screws up their looping path.
Unless we want to explore some kind of mechanic to prevent holding W from tile to tile, maybe something like a fatigue mechanic where spritning while over a certain distance from the killer results in the survivor slowing down and needing to catch their breath, bloodlust can't be removed. I'm sure you'd agree, Bloodlust seems much less annoying than something like survivor fatigue.
Generally speaking holding w is only used as a phrase when you do it out of chase, and since bloodlust only comes into account when you are in a chase I don't really get what you mean?
How does bloodlust help you in that situation though? Are you basically bloodlusting the pallet instead of playing it or kicking it? That should not be a thing either…
Sure it is much less annoying than that, still does not mean it is a good mechanic or it should stay… Running from tile to tile and looping it is playing the game… I don't get your point here… Do you mean tiles are that close to each other that you can just not drop the pallet and still connect them or what is your point here?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717836#Comment_3717836
As a frequent Myers and Ghostface player I can think of several reasons.
So two killers? Then make a special condition for their power uses?
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@IamFran said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717765#Comment_3717765
I've never heard of this version, it is too drastic and OP, survivors need to advance their objetive, not forcing a chase or being injured which is too detrimental for them and feel weird.
The version I heard for is a mini-corrupt intervention which last around 25-30 seconds, just for the survivor not starting to do the generator which is only 2-10 meters from where they started. It seems fair and gives some time to weakest and low mobility killers.
How is it OP if it turns off as soon as you enter chase or lose a health state?
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717822#Comment_3717822
This is exactly my point. Different people judge things differently with no guarantee of a sensible decision. Starrseed suggested making basekit changes based on grouping killers in a tier list. Where do you rank Nurse there? At the top because she pretty much destroys everyone or at the bottom because casuals force one of the lowest kill rates in the game on her?
Fully depends on the perk doesn't it? Besides that I think at least for the early game collapse thereis no need to build different groups, as it somewhat balances itself out.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717814#Comment_3717814
Pretty sure they do restrictions on a per killer basis. edit: Yea, they do. Blight had Deli against him later.
Interesting, but the rules also change from tournament to tournament, don't know if all of them do it like that?
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717793#Comment_3717793
Problem with that is someone has to judge this. I tuned into some comp game yesterday and they banned Deliverance against Billy because he is too weak to handle it apparently.
Might also be a general rule that deli is banned? Comp bans many perks.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717806#Comment_3717806
People brought Ghana because they thought it was a good idea, which it was not really.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2RCNL8F2FWKE/image.png
So BHVR nerfed thana in hotfix for no reason?
People don't do a full Gen while fully infected, that would be a terrible play, so the 20% only come into account for parts of it, where it usually does not really matter...
So if you assume that all survivors would surely not do entire gen with that -20%, and also you are saying that it would "only come into account for parts of it, where it usually does not really matter", then idk what is the reason for that buff, if survivors aren't going to be affected and it would not matter.
They wanted to nerf Billy's engravings... Them nerfing something really says nothing. I don't think Thana was an issue back then, the current version is just trash on 98% of killers...
Simply to give survivors a reason to not work on gens while infected but to cleanse... Because with the decrease in speed the incentive to do so has been weakened.
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@Starrseed said:
Yeah hatch is a strange thing. I get they wanted something so survs don't loose all hope when they are down to one or two people but it's total rng and it's bad cause there mmr isn't touched even so they lost. But so many people are a fan of hatch and defend it and all I can think about is the pure rage we would see if killer would get a rng mechanic that just gives them a kill when the survs would otherwise leave
Hatch is just an outdated mechanic, especially in the days of mmr and the game becoming somewhat competitive because of it... It would be weird to have it for the other side…but in that sense hatch and bloodlust/noed fall In a similar category of getting value despite not really doing something for it.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717801#Comment_3717801
AAs a quick thought I would say maybe killers that are relying on basic m1 gameplay to get a down in a loop. So all the rush killer like Blight or wesker are out und all range killers are out.
But it's a difficult question indeedI thought maybe trapper could use bl since all he can do is shutting down a loop and then the surv is w keying to the next.
But then I thought about legion for example. They can vault pallets and are fast but they can't down you and have nothing but m1 gameplayand then I thought about plague She is not fast and can't down with her power so she is pur m1 so she should get bl but what is when someone uses the last fountain and she gets her empowered m2? Then she would not qualify for bl.
Argh it's really not easy.... that's why I'm no dev ^^
I mean Trapper or Legion at best, all the other m1 killers have something that is either stealth like Myers or Ghostface or slowdown like Freddy or Clown... Which makes it a mechanic that only becomes relevant on like 3% of killers xD
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717794#Comment_3717794
Ofc most people will run meta builds, so what?
I gave you and example, if dbd devs center killer power around some aspect (healing, doing gens) it's very likely that killers would bring perks that even more punishes other side in said aspect.
For example:
- Legion and Thana, when it worked on Healing.
- Thana high usage after +10 seconds to gen.
- Hag and Monitor and Abuse.
By making basekit slowdown to gens, Weskers would still bring gen regression perks, making it more obnoxious.
Wesker don't need gen slowdown in his basekit as he is high-mobility killer.People brought Ghana because they thought it was a good idea, which it was not really.
Thana on Legion was annoying and dragged the game out even more but even then it was debatable whether you should heal or not.
I guess Hag and monitor is fine, but the perk is also not really her number one choice... Killers with smaller terror radius tend to get more out of monitor, despite it still not being meta.
People don't do a full Gen while fully infected, that would be a terrible play, so the 20% only come into account for parts of it, where it usually does not really matter... And even then the best play is to get rid of infection beforehand anyway...
Wesker is not a high mobility killer... He is slightly above a 115% one...