Archol123
Archol123
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717797#Comment_3717797
Well I see some parallels to our other discussion here.
Maybe bl should not be a general mechanic since most killer don't need it but it can be part for killers that don't have a loop/chase power
What killer would that be? That fully depends on the definition of chase power...
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717789#Comment_3717789
I mean sure that is a skill issue literally but it's also and maybe most importantly a matchmaking issue.
Alao wouldn't that mean the hatch needs to go since there you get a escape even so you lost?
In the end I think its super important that we don't forget that we don't play a 1v1 chase sim but a 1v4 and that while you are being chased there are 3 survs doing the objective and when the killer needs bl1 or even more you had a good chase and made time for your team. I don't think you are really supposed to win a chase as a survivor atleast not in the way the game is made right now
On a side note for hatch... From a matchmaking aspect hatch is a horrible idea, because you can dodge the minus mmr by getting it, despite it relying mostly on luck... And that among other factors harms the viability of the already very blurry mmr system in general.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717789#Comment_3717789
I mean sure that is a skill issue literally but it's also and maybe most importantly a matchmaking issue.
Alao wouldn't that mean the hatch needs to go since there you get a escape even so you lost?
In the end I think its super important that we don't forget that we don't play a 1v1 chase sim but a 1v4 and that while you are being chased there are 3 survs doing the objective and when the killer needs bl1 or even more you had a good chase and made time for your team. I don't think you are really supposed to win a chase as a survivor atleast not in the way the game is made right now
I also want hatch gone, but that is off topic anyway.
The 1v4 aspect does not really change anything, as the skill gap needs to be really huge for you to not get a single hit without Bloodlust... So you won't win either of those aspects of the match.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717783#Comment_3717783
Also 112? 20% of 90 is 18 + 90 is 108,why 112 seconds?
90 charges per gen → 1cps as base, add -20% penalty → 0.8cps as base.
90/0.8 = 112.5 seconds, not 108.
If you only run Thana
Let's not pretend that for half a year base build for Wesker isn't POP+PR+Grim/Barbecue+Lethal, okay?
High mobility? Because he has a dash that moves him quickly over a distance of 20 m with like 12 seconds cooldown
Yes, because he can quickly traverse through map, and during that cooldown he is r u n n i n g, not standing still.
This game seriously needs to be more clear about how efficiency and reduction in efficiency work because this is just ridiculous.
Why did you bring Thana even up then?? Ofc most people will run meta builds, so what?
If that is your condition for high mobility... Overall Clown probably has higher mobility when it is only about traversing the map once. Slow down while charging and after using it compared to reloading... If we count Wesker as a high mobility killer he would only be slightly above 115% killers in general.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717785#Comment_3717785
Girlipop how about we finally start to accept that the killers are so vastly different that we should implement mechanics and balance them.ona per killer basis and not as a blanket. Nurse and Blightmight don't need any early game help sure but trapper needs it so why aren't we giving him help.
I'm pretty sure Nurse is not gonna cry if she doesn't get the same treatment as the weak killers
Generally fair, but as I said before it would not help then as much anyway, despite on paper being the same conditions for everyone.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717771#Comment_3717771
Sure but I so think that would mean bhvr would need to put a good amount of work into the game and rhe balance and especially the matchmaking so you don't have games where the survs are just better and the killer isn't getting downs while the gens get done
No offense but if the other side is better they should come out on top, and if they are that much better that you cannot manage to get a single hit without Bloodlust then that is a major skill issue on the killer side or the most busted map ever, but neither of those are a good recent to get free hits.
Most tiles/maps are mostly fine, with a few exceptions... Hawkins infinite... But the goal should be to create balanced loops anyway and not have a band aid fix like Bloodlust.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717780#Comment_3717780
bestie, what are you talking about?
Let's assume that this is introduced:
all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes.
I wonder what would happen next:
- People would play "them weak M1 killers :((("
- People would abuse this and still play as High Mobility / Insta-Down killer with aura build and slowdowns
Surely, after that change, people would pick Freddy/Pig/Hag instead of Wesker/Blight/Billy <33
IT deactivates when you enter chase... A high mobility killer will deactivate it even faster... For Billy this thing would last like 5-10 seconds... Unless you spawn directly on a Gen you will not even start to work on one in that time, so what exactly is your point? A high mobility killer will not get much value out of the idea, which is the whole point of it... Help low mobility/setup killers get started without losing gens immediately.
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Dunno man, some people just see this in black and white... Everything that does not help my side is purely evil... No matter if it is barely an inconvenience for them but majorly helps the other side.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717774#Comment_3717774
You know what happened when devs made gens 90 seconds instead of 80?
All of the killers brought Thana to increase this time EVEN MORE.
Wesker is already high mobility killer and I don't know why one of the best killers with already built-in high mobility should also have basekit slowdown.
Also, -20%? 😂
That would mean that gens would take 112 seconds instead of 90.
Inb4 "yes but it gives pressure to survivors to remove infection >:(", then let's make it -50%, why not?
So you are telling me a person is just gonna sit through a full Gen while being infected and takes the additional 20% reduction instead of just using a spray... Also 112? 20% of 90 is 18 + 90 is 108,why 112 seconds?
If you only run Thana because of those additional 10 seconds... Wow…you get 2 seconds more slowdown than before with all 4 survivors being injured... That's really not much...
High mobility? Because he has a dash that moves him quickly over a distance of 20 m with like 12 seconds cooldown and you call this high mobility? ^^
I doubt people will do a gen while fully infected, at least not for the full duration, and when it only kicks in at like the last 20% that is really not too bad... So I think you are overreacting quite a lot here.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717765#Comment_3717765
The purpose was to give setup killers some time to do their stuff
No, the purpose was to make soloQ completely unplayable even against weak killers.
The purpose that the people who proposed the idea aimed for. ..
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Very eloquent and with that much reason, Truly the highest point of debating culture has been reached here. I hope you soon honor as again with that amount of knowledge and insight.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717762#Comment_3717762
I think thats just something we have to deal with.
I think the game would feel awful if the killer could just nit catch the survivor. Sure then the survivor is obviously better and the killer is rewarded but it's still better for the feel of the game.
And it's not like survs don't have a mechanik that gives them a win even if they are loosing
I don't know about that, I don't think you should get hits without deserving them in that manner...
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@JeanGreyarea said:
I have heard so much talk about this in the past few years but I still don’t know exactly what it is or what it would be like
Basically a mechanic that got talked about for a while to not make Corrupt Intervention needed, because otherwise especially on larger maps the killer might not even find somebody before a Gen pops.
Scott Jund for example talked about it years ago and it is only a general concept not a concrete idea. Ideas that were mentioned in that context were for example all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes.
The purpose was to give setup killers some time to do their stuff without losing half the gens while giving low mobility killers the opportunity to find someone and start chase before gens pop.
The debate was dropped and BHVR said that they dropped the concept, there was a time when they apparently thought about something like that.
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@ArkInk said:
I think it's harmless tbh. If the killer is getting frequent use out of Bloodlust, it means they are definitely losing.
Sure but they are still getting rewarded and the survivor is getting hit despite not making any mistakes, just because the killer got a haste effect.
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@SlowLoris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717748#Comment_3717748
I wouldn't mind you being able to rummage one "extra" spray to carry on you, but perhaps a small c/d on opening the same crate, so you can't just spam both at the start when the infection isn't any sort of threat.
I mean even in that case it would be slowdown, so I wouldn't mind that, but up for debate I guess.
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@SlowLoris said:
First off, I'd like to say I love Wesker. Mastermind is in my top 3 favorite killers to play and verse, so my opinions/feedback below are solely based off of what I think would make him healthier and more enjoyable overall.
Most actual Wesker mains (myself included) hate the Hinder mechanic from his power. We know it doesn't feel good to verse, and we know it makes hard tunneling very easy with him. With that in mind, I want to say, that I'm very happy you guys are finally changing it.
However, you're kind of just overall nerfing Mastermind without giving anything to compensate. Like I said, I'm happy the hinder mechanic is getting adjusted, but it would have been nice if the infection could have been reworked / he also got some small QoL buffs in general.
One of the most annoying things right now is how often (shockingly) people don't spray and they just slam gens. I try not to run a crazy amount of slow down - 2 max and that's if I really want to just "Chill". Wesker's built in slow down is survivors taking the time to spray, so they aren't hindered. The thing is, if you aren't a back to hook Andy/hard tunneler, stealth is so common now people just play very stealthy and push gens without spraying. This would be like having Pig traps, but they have no timer at all / urgency, so you can ignore them till the game is almost over.
With this in mind, below is my suggestion on how to REWORK Infection to make it a more helpful mechanic to Mastermind, without feeling unfair for Survivors that are having a good chase. The values of my suggestion would have to be tested/tweaked, but I definitely think it's something to consider.
Full Infection
- One hit down if slammed by the Mastermind (This doesn't change)
- Gen Repair Speed is reduced by 20%
Infection Rate
- Infection is gained at the same rate it currently is
- Speed of infection is increased by 50% if working on objectives (Does not effect healing)
- Infection resets to 10% after being hooked
Obtaining Sprays
- Unlocking spray chests is now 15% faster
- Spray Cans can now be scavenged infinitely
- First Aid Sprays per can reduced to 1
Non-Infection Related QoL (Base-kit adjustments)
Leather Gloves Basekit : Wesker is extremely fun to vs and that is because his chase power can be very fun to outplay, but it's also lethal if used well. Unfortunately it often feels like I'm permanently tied to running "Leather Gloves", because his base power recovery is just overly punishing. Especially if you run other add-ons such as Egg, your C/D can take absolute ages. There are plenty of M1 killers in the game, Wesker should be given the liberty to use his power more, but not an insane amount. Leather Gloves reduces the c/d enough that it feels less punishing when versing good players.
Terror Radius : I don't know if it's ever been explained why Wesker's Terror Radius is the biggest in the game. Perhaps, because it's thematic for Albert Wesker, but it's a major pain. I partially feel it's because of the speed he can approach people, but both Billy and Blight have smaller Terror Radius sizes and they are much more lethal if they manage to sneak up on you. Reducing Mastermind's terror radius to 32 meters would be a small, but appreciated buff. Especially with the way that Distortion currently works, the TR is so big that I cannot run aura perks, since players permanently charge Distortion without ever making contact with me. Not just that, but people are able to pre-leave so early with the size of his TR that you almost feel like you're silly for not dashing for distance to get to them before they pre-leave, but you can't do that, since his base C/D is so long, you MUST walk to them unless it's completely cross map, or you're punishing yourself with the C/D.
Thoughts (Possible Issues)
I've had people mention they'd be worried the spray system could be stacked with multiple slowdowns. The reality is, killers already do this with just about everything in the game. HOWEVER, if we wanted to give this some sort of "diminishing" returns, so it's not to crazy, you could always add an "Immune" status into his kit. Once you have inoculated 4 times, you can no longer be infected. Having to spray at least 4 times + open the chest 4 times + any sort of slow down you experienced before spraying would be quite a bit of slow down in general.
I didn't want this to mess with healing speeds, so it didn't lead to nasty play styles of making it impossible to heal, so you can save people, etc. Simply gen speeds, so it could be an actual "fair" part of his kit that is useful.
I felt sprays should be infinite, since it is possible to run certain builds right now that could cause survivors to run out of sprays rather fast, and if that became popular, this would be miserable.
The speed up while doing objectives was inspired by Plague, and I felt that it was fair, because if a survivor chooses to just slam a gen out instead of spraying, even if just off hook, they made that decision and should have to deal with possibly becoming a "One Shot Down", since they played in a risky manner. However, it would also allow survivors to get unhooked and quickly pop a gen that is 5-10% from finishing, if the pressure is currently needed, but they wouldn't be able to just sit and slam gens permanently. I also didn't want them to just quickly be 1 shot down if they do get tunneled off hook, but managed to get a heal off. However, the one hit slam has a lot of counter play, even just forcing a hit while vaulting, etc.
There are obviously other things that Mastermind players would like, but these Non-Infection Related QoL changes would be a much appreciated adjustment without being overbearing / overly buffing him.
Besides all of the bugs he's been experiencing since the UE5 update, Wesker is an almost perfectly balanced killer, especially with changing Hinder, but not giving him something to compensate is just punishing those that didn't use the mechanic for more than just a bit of slow down, since NOBODY will spray now.
I like the infection changes, whether it is 1% or 10% after unhook does not matter too much I guess so both should be fine.
The limit to 1 charge per can in combination to unlimited sprays is Allright, although I would prefer it if I could stack at least of them, so you have the same slowdown by needing to rummage it again and waste time on that, but that way it is easier to be able to cleanse someone else after unhooking and maybe yourself, without needing to run back and forth between the crates.
I guess smaller terrorradius and faster CD are Allright, but at least to me they never felt like an issue. I agree however that stealth and distortion are generally annoying to face.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717725#Comment_3717725
What you're talking about is overall game and map design and exploits. That is an issue for devs to rectify, but otherwise shouldn't have any relevance to map offerings.
Well usually map offerings are used to go to really strong maps for the side that uses them (unless you have an achievement to go for, or a specific quest or what not, but the majority will just send you to busted maps). And in the case of those before mentioned maps you already know that you will have a miserable time, unless you play a really strong killer. Sure that should be fixed by the devs, but the issue is if maps were not as different in strength and balance map offerings would not be an issue... But the point is in a game where you have the same chance to go to a map as busted as badham or garden of joy as you have to go to a map like rancid abattoir, those offerings can never be balanced. As they have way too big of an effect over the match result...
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with map offerings. Of course people might want to take advantage of certain maps because they are running a particular build, or they are trying to collect achievements.
Honestly, if you don't want to deal with map offerings, you should bring sacrifical wards.
A bigger problems with map offerings is people who dodge during the loading screen though. It's to the point where all offerings should just be secret, or revealed AFTER the game has started and there is a penalty for DCing. It's really not fair to unplug your router while the game is loading over an offering and make everyone queue up again.
I don't think that is too unfair to dodge that way... If the survivors want to send the killer to eyrie or garden of joy or the game or whatever stupid map is currently broken or unfun then they cannot really complain if the killer does not want to be bullied... Or remember some time ago where people used garden of joy just to hold the killer hostage by going outside of the boundaries of the map... In that case you are forced to DC anyway, so might as well do it before loading in...
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While it would improve his current situation I don't think it is enough to make him more interesting to play as or against and still lacks skill expression in playing him, therefore I would Stil advocate for a full rework.
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715816#Comment_3715816
You do know that he could spam his shock but can't immediately attack after shocking right?
Yes ofc, I think it is a 2 second window or so... But what exactly does that change?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717347#Comment_3717347
I don’t think BL1 is necessarily an indicator of poor killer play. BL2 and 3 could be nerfed though
Not necessarily but either map design or what I said before...
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717347#Comment_3717347
I disagree. There are still killers that are really pathetic in chase and as long as they exist there should be mechanic to ensure the chase will end at some point. Look at Freddy for example. Once they buff all killers to be able to hold their own in chase (something they are working on) I won't be against removing it.
Sure I guess, but that is fairly obvious... Bloodlust covered for bad map design, mostly loops that are too big and close to infinite.
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@tubalcane said:
Survivors frequently cite bloodlust as some sort of advantage for killers, but many of us are finding its really bad on the killer side, especially in places where you lose line of sight. I propose thinking about some changes to enhance it FAIRLY.
- Countdown needs to start upon locking eyes on a survivor and within a reasonable range (longer than it is now).
- It should stay active while the killer is roughly in the path of the survivor over the last x seconds. Losing line of sight for a brief time shouldn't deactivate it during a chance, but after a longer period allowed now. It should stay active without a countdown while still roughly in the path of the survivor.
There are just too many obstacles, pallets, w-keying that can be done and bloodlust should be enhanced to fairly counter this.
I think bloodlust should just be removed entirely as it rewards killers that play poorly or stubborn to finally get a hit/down.
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I mean for the aspect of getting an item and being able to use it next game it is fine, but ofc for the current match it is completely useless. So yeah why not, if it does not serve a purpose get rid of it, or at least give it some form of an effect... I don't know quicker chest opening on next chest or so?
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@AggressiveFTW said:
The results are going to be even more extremely mid or trash perks, uninteresting meta, uninteresting perks and the lack of creativity clearly showing to the public (already has started to show itself a long time ago).
The amount of bad perks in this game because BHVR keep changing the small meta we do have is bizarre. They talk about how they want to change up the meta, yet we still have SO many mid/trash perks not worth running because the alternatives are so much better and viable. Why do they keep changing the meta instead of making the lesser viable perks more viable so we can have a broader meta? And this issue is going to get even deeper if we keep on making so many new perks every year.
I'm honestly so tired of seeing new gen perks every new chapter, it's so expected nowadays because of the base game problems and lack of new stuff in the game. I don't understand why BHVR doesn't ask themselves why gen defense perks are the most used types of perks on the Killer side. Why do we continue to nerf these gen perks instead of improving the actual root of the problem, the base game, so we do not have to run these perks as much in higher levels?
The solution might be to just put perks together and therefore create stronger ones out of several single ones, for example by combining some that are only situationally good with certain other perks. The majority of perks is just useless and nobody uses them except for meme purposes… We have several hundred perks by now, that is just way too much and obviously the devs will run out of decent ideas eventually…
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@LatexT said:
The Slice and Dice hit cooldown is currently 3 seconds, so I think it's fair, following the current trend of lowering power hit cooldowns to the same value of basic hits, especially after his upcoming balance update. It also would make his brown addon, the Good Guy box, indirectly much better, as it is currently useless.
I don't understand why they didn't already do all of this in one go when they introduced the lowered base attack cooldown, in addition to also creating new killers with the old number… probably an oversight..
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717193#Comment_3717193
I wish you would post a source when you say, "bHVR isnt going to ban you for it."
because their website help center says nothing about this.
The question was if a crosshair overlay was bannable, but I would say that you could use the 2nd setence in this case as well:
"As with any 3rd party: it's not condoned or recommended, and while you will not get a ban from BHVR…" Given that it is whitelisted and BHVR won't ban you it is most probably fine to use. -
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717193#Comment_3717193
I wish you would post a source when you say, "bHVR isnt going to ban you for it."
because their website help center says nothing about this.Ok, soooo here we have a video of Hens explaining how to use them and that they are whitelisted by EAC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyLjtTJwTSI&t=60s
Mandy (one of the mods) is quite of often in his chat and if the it is whitelisted by EAC they would need to manually ban him for it, and since they did not do that yet it is most likely the case that they won't ban you for doing that. A quick google search will spit out that EAC has indeed whitelisted Reshade… otherwise you might take this for the time being ;)
Hope this helps, otherwise maybe just ask mods if you see them in chat of one of the fogwhispers/twitch streamers or something like that? AfaIk they don't ban people manually but won't take accountability if EAC bans you, but that should not happen since it is whitelisted.
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@kidnamedfinger said:
Hello, I'm a Hux main and I love his gameplay but now that we're seeing multiple killers get qol updates/reworks I think it's only fair that my bbygirl gets one too. There's too many aspects of his basekit that feel too punishing so here's what I propose:
- Soma Family Photo's effect needs to be basekit. 5% haste after teleporting. No 20% reduction for the overclock duration BUT overclock could be reduced by 1 second in general. Proposed idea for a new effect for Soma Family Photo would be: Decreases the size of biopods by 30% and reduces the sounds they make by 50%.
- EMPs should have two modes: one for removing biopods and one for removing slipstreams. This can make them feel less unfair and also add an element of strategy for survivors.
- EMPs should NOT work across floors. It's okay for them to ignore walls/obstacles but not floors.
- EMPs should take 1 second longer to charge. I believe it is 2.5 seconds now, buffing it to 3 or 3.5 would not be bad.
- Biopods recovery time should go down from 45 seconds to 35.
- Remove all of the anti-camping debuffs that Hux gets. They made sense at release but now anti-camping is properly implemented in the game and it just sucks that Hux gets EXTRA basekit slowdowns when near a hook but other killers don't. I don't like camping but this just feels unjust.
- Improve collision detection for biopod placement and LOS mechanics for slipstreaming.
That's all really. Also please give him more skins.
I like the soma photo base speed, as the killer feels quite weak without it sometimes.
I don't necessarily feel like the EMPs need further adjustment.
The anti camp debuffs are indeed redundant as of right now.
Further I would really like it if you had a seperate button for teleporting, because sometimes you just place new pods instead of teleporting to the survivor, because it does not register correctly, so that would be quite nice.
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@Alucinor said:
When people who hijack game with reshade to cheat gonna be permabanned?
>its not a cheating
Its absolutely is, with reshade blood is brighter than with bloodhound perk
BVHR whitelisted filters, they explicitly said they were not going to ban people for using filters… So if you define cheating as violation of the game rules it is not cheating by definition. And even if you use another definition it would not matter, because they still wouldn't ban you for that kind of "cheating".
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@ChainsLogic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716960#Comment_3716960
I didn't forget Nurse can blink, it was just irrelevant to my point. At first you said she would be even more op, but then with slightly longer blink recharge B tier at best, implying that she could be even worse (while I agree she could possibly be as "low" as B tier, thinking she could be C tier or worse with the rework is honestly just ridiculous)
Feel free to reply, but I'm not going to discus this topic anymore with you, because it seems you just want to be right at any cost, even if most of your arguments are all over the place and don't really make sense.
There is a difference between a killer being strong and having no counter... Original Legion was not a strong killer but he didn't have a counter to his power... Those two things are completely seperate from each other and for some reason you just did not get this point. No Nurse would not be op with your rework she would be rather weak, but she would not have counterplay, which is terrible design. Interacting with her in chase would be boring.
It is fine if you don't want to reply anymore, but don't blame me for your lack of understanding my points.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717157#Comment_3717157
playing vs strong survivors with him is like playing vs AI that side-step shots at last second. it is not viable to go for 12 chases with him. too much room for outplay. you miss like 2-3 shots and it is game over vs efficient teams.
Well that could be said about most killers that you cannot go for 12 chases... I would still say he is in the better half of killers.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717152#Comment_3717152
so make him 4.6 m/s. It is more useful then any of these changes. you can't justify 4.4 m/s with weak/mediocre power.
I really don't think his range attack is weak or mediocre xD
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i find it impressive that they're still not giving deathslinger 24 meter TR for being 110%. Why give all these pointless changes to slinger if your not going to make his power good? Just make 4.6 m/s at this point.
I mean considering he used to have that, I guess they just don't want to go back on that decision aside from the problematic no warning /terrorradius with a specific perk/addon combination.
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@BlightedSugarcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716990#Comment_3716990
His previous delicate sense of whether or not to collide was more interesting than his current one.
But that means his abilities are unstable, and I think it's inevitable that they will be fixed.
So, at the very least, I wanted to expand his abilities in a stable way and bring back something like what was there before (not just Hug Tech, but the fun of switching between Slip and Collide).
I use buttons simply because they are obvious and easy to implement, but I'd like to see some better ideas.
Sure stable is a good thing, but it should have been possible to keep the variable for sliding, but just making it more consistant...
I guess they just could have refined the existing mechanic of looking up and down instead, but that would have been a lot more work... Currently they are taking the easy way when it comes to collision, instead of reworking problematic collision on maps, they make killers collision smaller, for example Billy or upcoming Bubba.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717001#Comment_3717001
Also let's remember that the OP was specifically talking about Bubba and facecamping, which the anti-facecamp mechanic doesn't work against at all, as he can easily down you again with the chainsaw after unhooking yourself. That's the issue being brought up in this thread.
Sure, but the complaint is that the mechanic, that is not supposed to solve the issue of a camping Bubba does not solve the issue of the camping Bubba... Which is the whole point xD
There is not really a relation to the AFC other than that it not being what the OP wishes it to be, despite never being intended that way...
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716984#Comment_3716984
They're saying that the anti-facecamp mechanic is so easy to play around, we may as well not have it.
But it is not, because face camping only means standing right in front of the hook, which fills the meter and grants a free unhook… What they actually say is that face camping isnt the issue but camping, but thats not the point of the feature and was apparently never the intention of the devs in the first place.
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@BlightedSugarcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716976#Comment_3716976
Yes, I totally agree.
Honestly…I can't decide if fixing that collision was a good thing or a bad thing.
Pale Rose is much better. Indoor maps are... dead.
The sliding itself may have been a bug, but I believe that sliding certainly expanded his abilities in some ways.
I think those changes were a bad idea, as all it did was make certain tiles not playable with his power anymore and himself way more straight forward, and since bump logic is more reliable than hug tech or flicks, especially in combination with this sticky collision this just leads to more safe hits and less risks taken by Blights, which is quite sad.
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@BlightedSugarcane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716902#Comment_3716902
When Hug Tech was actually available, it was sometimes used to hit survivors directly behind objects, or to hit survivors on the other side of a car with MoonRush.
But a more common use was positioning for the next Rush.
The obvious direct-attack hug techs were barely hitting experienced survivors, and were mostly harvesting survivors who don't know Hug Tech.On the other hand, Hug Tech was also useful for simply navigating complex maps.
Hitboxes have been fixed (not a bad thing in and of itself) and indoor maps are now very scary places for the Blight.I think it would be more appropriate to think of Hugtech as a tool to aid in movement rather than a weapon for attacking.
So I think SlidingMode brings back the functionality of HugTech for mobility, and instead of making it easier while increasing the number of solvable loops, it can improve mobility on indoor maps.
I guess it makes sense under that aspect. I still don't like that instead of learning how to do certain things it is now just the press of a button. Before the changes it was one aspect of learning Blight to learn where you bounce and where you slide and that is completely gone now…
However I would not call it "fixed" collision, I dislike the current collision way more than the old one, now you get stuck on everything, and while I agree that this solution will solve some part of it, most still remains and to fix collision would have been the far better option than this semi done thing they chose to do.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716963#Comment_3716963
Well sure it does what it's supposed to do. But what it's supposed to do is a freaking joke. That's the big problem. It does nothing against normal camping, and after such a long time of complaints about camping, you would expect a system like this to do a bit more. As it stands it was just a waste of resources.
The devs always said that camping might be annoying, similar to tunneling but that it is a viable strategy, so when they told us about the anti-FACE-camping feature, there was not really the assumption it would fight camping?
It was never intended to do something against camping so I don't think it is fair to judge the thing on a standard it was never supposed to meat… Just like you don't judge a fish by its ability to fly.
It is better than not having the mechanic I guess, of course I agree that something against camping in general would have been even better, but since the devs apparently don't share that opinion I guess this is all we get.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716953#Comment_3716953
Yes we get it, it's an anti-face camp mechanic, doesn't change the fact that it's a waste of a mechanic.
It does exactly what it is supposed to do, it makes it impossible to be 20 cm away from the hook and camp that person. If that has an impact in some way shape or form on general gameplay is debatable, but it does exactly what it was supposed to do, it killed facecamping immediatly (unless in endgame).
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@ChainsLogic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716951#Comment_3716951
All killers should be around A to B tier. Not sure why you think B tier killers are bad as that's a perfectly all right place to be power-wise, and since you think Nurse would be B tier, I think the rework works fine for it's purpose (making her not op, not weak).
Also her being faster than survivors would lead to guaranteed hits? Literally all other killers are faster than survivors, so why is it fair for them all to eventually catch up and get a hit, but not Nurse? Really can't understand your logic here.
B tier at best, probably worse. I mean sure, S tier is not necessary, but the issue is just that the downgrade + the heavy punishment for missblinking is really not a good combination.
All other killers dont have a blink ability… You kinda forgot about that part didn't you?
Killer strenght should not be the main goal but how fun to play and play against a killer is and how engaging the chase interaction is. In my opinion Nurses chase interaction is great because there is quite some mind gaming from the survivors side in combination with certain areas and tiles being kind of decent against her but entirely useless against other killers. Currently she is very strong but also offers unique interaction and counterplay.
Your changes remove that counterplay entirely, breaking line of sight to force the Nurse to guess is not a thing anymore, because she catches up normally anyway, in addition to the blink being no langer usable to gain distance on the survivor, which means her gameplay would just be follow until in blink range/close enough for a safe hit and then go for it. It would be boring to go against, you would probably still win more often than not just because of how long it would take Nurse to down people that way, but it would not be fun, nor engaging, nor worth anyones time.
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@ahoodedraven said:
PC Player
Anti camping is useless against The Cannibal as you can sit on hook and unhook yourself all you like but because The Cannibal can hit more than once you can get downed immediately despite having the endurance from the unhook. Killers like The Trickster can do the same thing but it is less rare which makes the anti camping thing utterly useless. The range for the anticamping is too short and changing your perk build to have Decisive Strike for this scenario is unfair as not every killer tunnels and camps. It doesn't help that the only way to counter this is to play with a swf so most players are unable to counter these scenarios for a killer that has such a low pickrate with little chance to prepare for this.It is anti FACE camping, which is why the range is short, glad to help you out there ;)
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@ChainsLogic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716937#Comment_3716937
Matchbox Nurse is 4.4 m/s with one full blink (20 meters), my nurse is 4.2 m/s with two blinks that when both fully charged reach 16 meters. For comparison a 4.4 m/s killer would take 25 seconds to catch up to a survivor who has 10 meters advantage on them, in comparison a 4.2 m/s killer would take 50 seconds. I can see why you would think they are very similar, but with a 5 - 15 second cooldown on blink recharge (I'm sure a sweet spot can be found) that both rewards the survivor for avoiding the blink, but doesn't outright hamper the Nurse can be found. She would be weaker, but still a usable A tier killer imo.
And about near-guaranteed hits, most killers have this (Leatherface catches you in a deadzone between loops and instadowns you, Huntress can often get these hits at pallets, Legion's first frenzy hit) and if they never or almost never could have these situations, killer would feel very bad to play in general.
The point here is not about strenght but about a hit being guaranteed, for that it does not matter if she is 4.4 or 4.2 or 4.6 or whatever, as long as she is faster than the survivor she is not required to use her blinks to catch up. The speed itself is more about how good the killer is in the end. With your changes she would be probably around B tier at best, because running away from her would be super easy and 4.2 takes a lot of time to catch up, and since you cannot use the blink for mobility she would just be a slightly more scary Myers that can blink… She would be a horrible killer, and still boring to face, bad but annoying, because she will get those guaranteed hits from time to time.
The point about the hit being guaranteed is that it is after x amount of time, safe. No ifs and whens, but at point x you will get hit, similar to legion in his frenzy. Getting hit in a deadzone has nothing to do with that and is not comparable. Especially considering getting a hit in a deadzone can be the result of the killer creating the deadzone beforehand and then forcing the survivor to go there.
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@ChainsLogic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716899#Comment_3716899
They could make her start her blink recharge only after her fatigue is over, and the recharge could take between 10 and 15 seconds to promote not spamming her blink attack. Sure before she was a bit slower but being able to cross 32 meters (average killer terror radius) with the fast recovery of her power, negates a lot of counterplay her slower speed brings. Besides if you're at a loop, you'll still have to predict blinks, it's not like she's gonna have basekit wallhacks now.
I think you're being way too pessimistic about this rework, but it's true power, or lack of, could only truly be seen after the changes would be tested on a ptb.
By giving her too much of a cooldown on her blink not only prolongs chases way too much if you miss a blink it also makes it so holding w becomes more effective.
I don't think I'm too pessimistic, look at her matchbox addon… That is basically what you are aiming for, you removed the necessity for Nurse to use her blinks to catch up and you automatically make it so she can just follow you until she gets a safe blink hit. As the survivor you will get hit after x amount of time, no matter what you do and that is terrible design.
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@Ohyakno said:
What if blight had to throw syringes at a survivor and then after a certain number of syringes the survivor would lose a health state and get a speed boost from the blight juice. Each syringe would fill up a meter beside the survivor portrait that gradually decays if the blight doesn't hit syringes.
Sounds like you just made Trickster..
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@Ray_Penber said:
I can't seem to get lobbies where it is equal anymore. I just get people who are good at looping. Extremely frustrating since I am not good at mind games or trying to counter there looping or moonwalking. In all honesty I loose track of people easily to the point of mind gaming myself. Since I strictly play only M1 killers it's really tough. My build is an endgame strategy so I have no anti-loop perks. I just wish to play against people who either have no concept of looping or who are not good at it because that's the level I am on. I play console and not pc.
If you lose your mmr will go down, not much more to it… You could try to find people for 1v1s to learn looping otherwise.
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@WinterDraft7 said:
Based on the Knight's performance during gameplay, his power feels Incredibly weak and DESPERATELY needs a rework to balance out his gameplay, and his power. At the moment, he feels like a rubbish killer to verse against, and to play as.
Using The Knight's power can feel very slow paced and very boring to use, if you don't really know how to use it correctly. It can also feel 'unrewarding' trying to use his power, if survivors can already see you create a path in front of them, and dodge it with ease.
With this rework idea in mind, this will surely put a new perspective on The Knight, and balance out his gameplay and power. As well as making him a bit stronger and a bit fairer to play as or against, without him being too annoying.
Knight's Power: Guardia Compagnia
Special Ability: Guard Summon
Rework:
• Anytime The Knight creates a Patrol Path in Guard Summon mode, the created path becomes invisible for Survivors.
• Decreases the collision zone in where you will hit walls or objects in Guard Summon mode.
• Guards will now spawn immediately after the Power Gauge has been completely drained or by pressing the Power button.
Special Ability: Switch and Recall Guard (I don't know what to call his Second Ability)
• Anytime Guard Summon Mode is not in use, you can now switch between Carnifex, Assassin, and Jailer, by pressing the Special Ability button.
• After summoning a Guard, you can now Recall the Guard back by any means, by pressing the Special Ability button.
Guard Special Ability: The Hunt
• Dried Horsemeat Uncommon Add-on is now basekit for all Guards, except Carnifex.
• Map of the Realm Common Add-on is now basekit for all Guards, except Jailer.
• Pillaged Mead Common Add-on is now basekit for all Guards, except Carnifex.
• The Detection Circle around the Guards' is now changed into a Detection Cone in front of them, with a wide 60 degree angle.
• The Carnifex and The Jailer in the Hunt, now move at a base 107% movement speed.
• All Guards on Patrol now move at a base 100% movement speed.
• If a Guard detects a Survivor, the Guard will immediately start chasing the Hunted Survivor within a 6 meter range. If a Survivor is beyond 6 meters, the Guard will teleport over to the Survivor as close as possible.
Add-on Changes
•
How exactly does this make the survivor side more enjoyable? Considering that was one of the goals you had?
"Rework:
• Anytime The Knight creates a Patrol Path in Guard Summon mode, the created path becomes invisible for Survivors.
• Decreases the collision zone in where you will hit walls or objects in Guard Summon mode.
• Guards will now spawn immediately after the Power Gauge has been completely drained or by pressing the Power button.
Special Ability: Switch and Recall Guard (I don't know what to call his Second Ability)
• Anytime Guard Summon Mode is not in use, you can now switch between Carnifex, Assassin, and Jailer, by pressing the Special Ability button.
• After summoning a Guard, you can now Recall the Guard back by any means, by pressing the Special Ability button.
"
However I agree to this part. Would be nice quality of life/buff, however it does not really change his major issues… -
@BlightedSugarcane said:
Blight has been nerfed in multiple updates, making it a much more balanced killer than before.
In the next PTB, the insanely strong Iri addon will be nerfed, leaving no unhealthy strength.However, these updates also took away some of the fun of using him.
Exhilarating speed, hug tech, not strong but unique add-ons.I don't want him to be S-tier.
I want him to have infinite potential that is worth practicing, and I want him to be a killer that is fun to use and play against.It's understandable that BHVR is having trouble adjusting his abilities, as his abilities are highly dependent on the user's skill and map.
Regardless of the former, we won't be able to make him a truly balanced and fun killer unless we eliminate map dependence.I have an idea that involves major changes.
But first, to simplify the explanation, we will define some terms.- Rush (first rush that cannot attack) → Blighted Rush
- When referring to both Blighted Rush and Lethal Rush → Rush
Okay. Let's go!
Makes changes to his base kit.
- Set movement Speed to 4.4m/s.
- Set the basic Rush speed to 8.8m/s.
- Blighted Rush also allows you to break pallets by pressing M1 just before collide, but the time it takes to destroy with a Rush(includes Lethal Rush) has been increased from 2.5 seconds to 2.8 seconds.
- Implements two modes, Lethal Mode and Sliding Mode, which can be switched by pressing the Ctrl key.
Switching is possible when the ability is not used and during ChainRushWindow.- In Lethal Mode
- Roughly the same as current ability.
- Reduce turn rate during a Rush by 15%.
- Increases Lethal Rush speed by a stack-able +10% for each consecutive Rush.
- Roughly the same as current ability.
- In Sliding Mode
- All Lethal Rushes are replaced by Blighted Rushes.
- Does not have collision detection during Blighted Rush.
(Just like Oni's Demon Rush with a time limit) - During a Blighted Rush, M1 detects collisions instead of attacking.
- All Lethal Rushes are replaced by Blighted Rushes.
- In Lethal Mode
The next step is to change the addon.- Compound Seven
- Survivors hit by a rush attack will receive The Blindness for 30 seconds.
- Survivors hit by a rush attack will receive The Blindness for 30 seconds.
- Placebo Tablet
- It takes 12% longer to destroy a pallet in Rush, but it instantly recovers 1 token.
- It takes 12% longer to destroy a pallet in Rush, but it instantly recovers 1 token.
- Plague Bile / Umbra Salt
- Increases turn rate by (5 / 10)% during Lethal Mode and (10 / 20)% during Sliding Mode.
- Increases turn rate by (5 / 10)% during Lethal Mode and (10 / 20)% during Sliding Mode.
- Shredded Note
- Increase token recharge speed based on held tokens.
- Reduces recharge time by max 0.5 seconds when 0 tokens, increases by 0.1 seconds for every 1 token.
- Blighted Rat / Crow
- Increases Blighted Rush speed by a stack-able +(4 / 6)% for each consecutive Rush.
- Increases Blighted Rush speed by a stack-able +(4 / 6)% for each consecutive Rush.
- Rose Tonic
- Increase maximum look angle during a Rush by 25°.
- Increase maximum look angle during a Rush by 25°.
- Adrenalin Vial
- Added 2 maximum tokens.
- Reduce turn rate by 30%.
- Increased max look angle by 15°.
- Consecutive Rush bonus will not be added for the 5th and subsequent Rushes.
- Alchemist's Ring
- When a Rush attack hits, you gain 10% The Hindered for 7 seconds, but your tokens are set to 3.
- When a Rush attack hits, you gain 10% The Hindered for 7 seconds, but your tokens are set to 3.
- Soul Chemical
- If all tokens are used up and the survivor is hit by a rush attack, they become The Deeply Wounded and The Broken for 60 seconds.
- If all tokens are used up and the survivor is hit by a rush attack, they become The Deeply Wounded and The Broken for 60 seconds.
- Summoning Stone
- Revert to the previous palette blocking effect.
- Revert to the previous palette blocking effect.
- Compound Thirty-Three
- While in SlidingMode, you will not be able to switch modes in the Chain Rush Window
- By pressing M2 during the second and subsequent Blighted Rush, you can consume all tokens and switch to Lethal Rush.
- It takes 0.66 seconds from switching to being able to attack.
- At the start of switching, Survivors around you will receive the orange effect that used to be in this add-on in the past, allowing them to know when it is time to switch.
- Iridescent Blight Tag
- Consecutive Rush bonus in Lethal Mode gives +5% additional acceleration, but Lethal Rush duration decreases by 12% with each Rush.
- Consecutive Rush bonus in Lethal Mode gives +5% additional acceleration, but Lethal Rush duration decreases by 12% with each Rush.
That's all for the changes.
The following is supplementary.The purpose of these two modes is not to significantly buff chasing ability, but to reduce map dependence and increase the number of loops that can be solved (if done well) by Rush.
In Sliding Mode, you can move smoothly on indoor maps by intentionally sliding, but you can't attack, making it a mode specialized for movement and positioning.Lethal Mode's Consecutive Rush bonus differentiates it from the other mode and compensates for the lower base movement speed.
(If you don't use Iri tag) The maximum speed is slower than the old double speed.
In the first place, high-speed rush using the Consecutive Rush bonus is a double-edged sword, and there is a big disadvantage when the attack fails, and the pursuit becomes slower, so I don't think it will significantly improve the chasing power.Also the behavior of Consecutive Rush bonus is independent for each mode and is as follows.
(addon: Blighted Crow)- (Lethal Mode) Blighted Rush. +0%speed
- (Lethal Mode) Lethal Rush. +10(10 * 1)%speed
- (Sliding Mode) Blighted Rush. +12(6 * 2)%speed
- (Sliding Mode) Blighted Rush. +18(6 * 3)%speed
- (Lethal Mode) Lethal Rush. +40(10 * 4)%speed
Please let me know what you think about add-ons and base kits.
Thank you for reading this far ;)So you basically want to make his hugtech more reliable by making it basically accessable via pressing a button… That is even dumbing him down more… But if during hugtech he is in his first rush, where he cannot attack… how does this do anything for him? So we get hugtech back, but we cannot attack after it? What is this good for?