AngyKiller
AngyKiller
About
- Username
- AngyKiller
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
No, here is what should happen:
If a Survivor DCs:
Any BP they should be divided amongst those remaining (including Killer), and everyone remaining should get a 3% BP boost per DCer. Up to 9% BP (If 3 Survivors DC). Including Killer.
Any perks that proc off a Survivor dying, or being hooked, trigger.
(Also; what happened to our 'Husks' that Killers could hook for BP and Survivors wound unhook for BP?)
If it's the Killer DCing:
His earned BP should be split amongst all 4 Survivors. You can't really give a BP boost, since the match ends.
-
@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710871#Comment_2710871
That sounds pretty cool.
And I still think that it's a squandered opportunity to not personalize the basement for each killer.
I lmow, I know, some peeps think that it will give the survivors, who sneak into it, some kind of advantage, knowing who they are up against, but most of the time the killer will initiate their first chase within the first 40s of the game anyways.
For the stealthkillers you could also make it so that they get a random other killers basement, with one hidden hint, like Ghostface's mask on one of the skulls, or whatever.
It always amused me that 'Hooks were changed so Survivors would not know who they were up against' and then; Freddy. The SECOND you see your sleep meter; you know.
Billy & Bubba; you hear that chainsaw, and you know.
Wraith; you hear the ding-ding, and you know.
Demogorgon; the second he teleports; you know.
Spirit; you can hear her vape.
Huntress; lullaby.
Nurse; you can hear the teleport.
I guess the rest can be a surprise. Except the second 1 person in an SWF knows; the hive-mind all know. SO changing the hooks for a point that basically became void within the year, IIRC, was silly as heck.
-
It does not help that BHVR went through a phase were every killer needed a BUILT-IN counter. You know; just in case the perks that countered said Killers were off-meta, so Survivors would never have to plan ahead or be punished for not diversifying. 🙃
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710487#Comment_2710487
Never put words in my mouth, mate. Never.
I didn't say they should be changed, or removed. I said the majority of the cast should be looped in the regular manner, as it was when I first started playing.
That would mean stop creating killers like that from now on, as we have enough of them already.
Do not do that again.
Apologies if it seemed that way. I was going to reply to you, stopped to help bring in groceries, and then just replied to the thread in general without thinking that I quoted someone.
I do agree we need more Killers of differing types, but that doe snot mean they should never make more anti-loop Killers.
Until the maps stop being so loop-heavy, with vaults and pallets every 6 inches, anti-loopers are the strongest Killers.
-
I stopped giving the hatch or gate when Survivors would STILL insult me, as if they legit thought I had forgotten how to play in the last 1-2 minutes of a game, or their 'l33t skillz' had somehow allowed them to wriggle free while I stood still over the hatch/near the exit gate.
I figure, if I'm going to get the insults either way; I'm at least going to walk away with the BP. Screw 'em.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710470#Comment_2710470
Yes, they were.
And the loops were actually a bit stronger. It was perfectly possible to deal with them back then as it would be perfectly possible to deal with then now.
I speak from experience.
And your last point makes no sense at all. That was how the game was originally designed.
That is how it should stay.
No. Anti-Loop Killers should not be changed or removed just because some Survivors seem to insist their vaguely-defined 'fun' is more important than game balance.
This has been the running excuse since DBD launched. '<Killer> is UNFUN! Nerf him!', as if 'I, personally, am not having fun' is a real argument for balance changes.
Usually made by Survivors that either;
- Just lost to said Killer, and thus said Killer is 'OP' or 'Unfun'.
- Or only have fun if they win, and thus any loss, at any point, is an excuse to claim 'I'm not having fun, so cater to me & nerf <x> killer/power/perk'
-
Survivors: Anti-Loop Killers are unfun for both sides!
Killers: Umm, we don't find Anti-Loop Killers unfun to play as.
Survivors: We said 'Anti-Loop Killers are unfun for both sides!'
-
Of course Legion, of all Killers, gets screwed. Poor Legion.
And, of course, Snowman do nothing but screw Killers in general. Poor Killers in general. 😁
-
I see the problems with DH, but I also don't. Let me try to explain.
Killers need to act like every Survivor has Dead Hard. IE: They have to extend a chase by a few seconds to 'bait it out', and that can make or break chases. Not baiting it out can also break chases, if Survivors DO have it. But you know what that sounds like to me? NoED.
Survivors need to act like every Killer has NoED. IE: They have to extend the match to find totems, and that can make or break matches. Not doing totems can also break matches, if Killers DO have it.
So , while I hate when DH screws me, I also think of it as 'The Survivor's NoED', in that I have to play around it existing. Which is EXACTLY what makes NoED such a threat and the ONE THING above all that can never be changed; not knowing if someone has it until it triggers.
(Which is also the ONE THING most Survivors advocating for NoED nerfs want to ignore; that lack of information is exactly why it's strong, and that lack of information can never be touched without nerfing it to garbage. Same goes for DH.)
-
Translation: 'Whaaa! The Killer used tactics that I lost too! Why can the Killer do anything that makes me lose!? If the Killer wins, it's clearly 'abusing the game!' When are you going to fix it so I never lose!?'
-
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2709406#Comment_2709406
And that is exactly what should happen.
Nerf to face-camping and tunneling-off-hook, with a simultaneous nerf to gen speeds. No new perks to Band-Aid-fix the problem.
I think a 5 second "Sprint Burst" from hook would be an excellent way to fix the tunneling-off-hook. Maybe some type of Borrowed-Time effect mixed in for Face-Camping.
Won't happen. It needs to happen, but won't.
Survivors will riot if gen speeds are touched. Even if camping & tunneling, and genspeeds, are all nerfed in the same patch; Survivors will scream for the gen speeds to be reversed. I guarantee there will be screams of 'Unplayable' and 'Whiny Killers ruined the game'.
Yes, some Killers will do the same. But just from having been in various DBD communities over the years; I've seen far more Killers admit camping & tunneling are boring (but they work), and admit that 'Gen speeds made me camp/tunnel to have a hope of winning', then I have seen Survivors admit that gen speeds go fast.
Usually, any comment of gen speeds is met with 'git gud' and 'stop whining' and 'pressure gens!'
-
@Impartiality said:
It’s funny how killers always blame survivors for when killers camp 🤦♂️ That’s like blaming the killer for when survivors flashlight click and tbag
It's also funny that Survivors will see a Killer camp, stand around NOT doing gens, go for a save they literally can't get, and then scream that camping somehow magically gets 4Ks.
All while ignoring every second of participation they had in feeding that camping Killer his 4K.
-
@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2709286#Comment_2709286
Way to jump to conclusions. That's like saying "why should anything survivor sided be fair? Why did DS need to be fair(read: killer-sided)"
Do you think DS is killer sided now? It's been made more fair, with your logic that must mean it's killer sided now, right?
Way to strawman.
I'm just asking why ONE spot favoring Killers needs a nerf, moreso when it's the basement; the place of a Killer's power.
But basically anything even slightly Killer-favored has someone asking for it to be changed.
-
The basement SHOULD be powerful. Come on; it's the only no-sabo hooks in the game. It's clearly the Killer's lair.
Why does anything Killer-sided need to be 'fair' (Read: Survivor-sided) instead?
-
Because everything is either a box or a pill-shape.
And when it comes to hitboxes; the devs erred on the side of Survivors and made every object's hitbox larger than the object so there's 0 chances for hatches/shots/etc to go THROUGH said items. Basically, they would give a grain of sand the hitbox of a Buick to ensure Survivors could hide without feeling cheated.
-
@AnneBonny said:
blight just needs add on changes and artist just came out
You say 'Artist just came out' like that matters.
I've seen Killers on the PTB for ONE DAY get screamed for nerfs by angry Survivors. 😬
-
Git gud.
Heaven forbid Survivors get caught and killed 1st hook. They should have 50 second-chance perks that...Oh, they do.
Well, they should have perks that literally make it impossible for Killers to kill unless they check a questionnaire that asks 'Did you have enough fun?' If the Survivor checks 'No'; he's removed from the hook, given immunity to literally everything, and allowed to do gens for 5 minutes before he can be hooked again!
-
The first rule of any PvP game: I don't like it, and I don't use it; it must be nerfed.
-
@PbutterNjellie said:
Same here, after every update I get booted at least 4 times a day. Today on the 2 boot...got a 1/2 hr penalty.
You would think they would know the difference between a boot and someone just disconnecting. Really frustrating.
It's literally impossible for a game to tell 'disconnect' from 'crash'.
All the game code sees is 'Client disappeared'. There's no data (due to your client going away) to send that says 'This is a crash, not an intentional disconnect'. Crash, alt-F4, powering off your router, losing power at your house; it's all just 'The client stopped sending data'. It's not at all possible, at current, for any program to know anything beyond 'You left'.
On top of that; if there was a way to determine 'crash' from 'Babyrage'; DCers would abuse it to babyrage out of matches without punishment.
-
I was a bout to say the same thing; A 3-4 Man SWF would render the Killer useless.
Granted, SWFs render every Killer useless (Hence why I call it Cheat With Friends) but that's another issue.
-
@BreadTube said:
I think they should test the waters by adding Springtrap 1st to see if terminator would fit, both being robots of course one is just more popular.
I'm sorry but I shudder every time someone say 'Springtrap should be in this game'.
Maybe it's because I'm not a big fan of FNAF, but I really don't think FNAF belongs in DBD.
-
@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
I've always said the best killers should verse the best survivors, but it does underline the difference in power between the two groups. So many ideas have been suggested for fixing this, hopefully killer mains leaving the role will push the devs into considering some of them.
The difference in gameplay can be summed up thusly:
Survivors win if Survivors do well.
Killers win if Survivors do bad.
Basically; Killers don't win if good Killers play good Survivors. If You have a flawless Killer match; a flawless Survivor group will still win. So it's not a Killer's skill that determines a Killer win; it's Survivor skill that determines a Killer win.
-
@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707076#Comment_2707076
Thats fine, I also think DS should activate twice now, once on each hook to solidify its place as an anti-tunnel mechanic.
Rofl. No.
Sometime tunneling is needed, and Survivors don't deserve to get out of a down 8 times a match (twice per Survivor). This would make it almost impossible for Killers to get kills so...No. DS should not be basekit, and it should not activate twice.
Neither should BT. Screw that OP noise.
Not unless NoED becames basekit to compensate for the fact that no Killer will have more than 2 hooks before all 5 gens pop.
-
I think BHVR keeps making anti-loop Killers because there's so many effing loops in the game that any OTHER type of Killer is basically screwed.
Survivors can run a loop for 15+ seconds, drop the pallet, and be halfway to the next loop & pallet before the Killer circles around/destroys the first pallet.
And if the Killer does not break the first pallet, the Survivor can run back thataway after the second pallet drop, or decide to go for a third pallet.
Basically, this game is Looped By Daylight, and anti-loop Killers are all that can compete with competent Survivors with 16 second chance/chase-extending perks per match.
-
Make the first DC 5 minutes, the second 10, and then every DC afterwards is a random amount, from 10 minutes to an hour or more.
But not perma.
People don't get griefed enough to hit that cap; it can only happen if someone is deliberately DCing.
'But what if I have bad internet!?" Then why are you playing a PvP game where your teammates ability to win or lose is based on if you can stay in a match?
'So I can't play if my internet sucks? That's selfish!" Expecting your teammates to put up with you crashing because you're 5 minutes of fun before your internet cuts out AGAIN is more important than them having a match where their teammates don't scrub out, is so stupidly selfish that there are no words. Think of the other players, and play something else.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706810#Comment_2706810
And I fully agree with both of those rules. The game needs a one-shot overhaul that lowers the stakes for both sides, so that killers can take a breather and survivors don't have to deal with tactics that see them locked out of play.
It's definitely not going to be easy, and yeah, it's doubtful BHVR can do it. They made -this- MMR system, for pete's sake! But if, somehow, they managed to do it, they absolutely need to nerf/buff both sides, equivalently, at the same time.
Honestly, and I don't see this happening, as it's a complete game overhaul; Remove the hooks.
When the Killer downs you; he kills you. His murdering of you feeds the Entity. And then then Entity forces you back onto the map.
By which I mean a Survivor can run around as an invisible ghost, and can see the map, but not: Living Survivors, the Killer, Totems, or Killer traps. (This is to prevent the Survivor from spying on the Killer using Discord while dead).
The Survivor then has 60 seconds to run around (Time can be adjusted), and can spawn in sooner if they want. Upon spawning, they are immune to being killed for either 30 seconds (can be adjusted. This is to make it take too long for a Killer to want to tunnel them), or until they: Drop a pallet, disarm a Killer trap, interact with a gen or totem.
Each Survivor must be killed 3 times (can be adjusted via balancing, bearing in mind the Killer is also wasting time in kill animations).
Gen speeds would probably not even have to be nerfed by much, given Survivors would be 'dead' quicker (you're cutting out carrying & hooking).
And it would add weight to being caught; you're not hooked & waiting to be rescued. You're dead and waiting to respawn.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706710#Comment_2706710
I've been in the game since launch; Killers rarely camped, because camping sucked, at the start. Until gen speeds sped up, thanks to perks and toolkits and an overall optimizing of Survivor's gameplay loops. At that point, Killers realized they HAD to get kills ASAP to slow down gen speeds, not trade hooks.
The very first PTB involved anti-camping measures. You can keep thinking that killers are perfect little angels, but they're not all interested in a fair game, and some aren't interested in pushing themselves for a big win.
Show me anywhere where devs said 'We made gen speeds faster to compensate for camping'? You can't. Which means gen speeds WERE NOT optimized because Killers camp. Instead, since gens can only go so fast, it's more likely that Killers adopted new strats as Survivors got faster thanks to perks, items, addons, and a general building of personal skill.
Who's talking about gens being sped up?
I'm talking about how the devs CAN'T slow gens down, because it'll directly buff camping. Hard.
But, of course, you look at the problem, blame Killers, then say it's Killers that must be punished/nerfed to fix it, then try to say 'But we should not do Us Vs Them' right after you did Us Vs Them.
I'm pitting things against a flaw in game design, not against killers. I am constantly saying that we could improve things for killers if camping were to be removed. From the get go, I mentioned that camping is upholding balancing issues. That includes things working AGAINST the killers. That's why I'm going on the 'gen speeds can't be slowed because of camping' angle. It's a buff for killers, but it's hamstrung by camping.
My entire argument is trying to figure out how to nerf campers so we can buff killers, and you're saying I just want to nerf killers!?
There's that peer pressure. Shame Killers into avoiding tactics Survivors deem 'unacceptable', so they won't do them. Because Survivors feel they have this divine right to determine how their opponent plays. And if they can't scream for nerfs, they will use peer pressure, insults, and subtext (Camping is what BAD killers do! (Unsaid: You don't want to be a BAD killer, right?)) to alter their opponents behavior.
YOU came barging into this thread to shame people for wanting camping fixed. YOU came in here to try and peer pressure people into dropping an argument for improved game design.
Even if you don't want to 'us vs them' the discussion; you sure do still partake of it while trying to demand I should not.
Because you're not reading any arguments. Any word against camping you immediately turn into 'Survivor want killers nerfed' with zero nuance. You don't bother trying to invest yourself in the discussion, you don't bother exploring other perspectives. You just immediately jump to the conclusion that the survivors must want killers nerfed and survivors buffed.
THIS is why we're not getting anywhere. This kind of attitude has people aiming a loaded gun at the other side and saying 'You drop yours first, and I'll totally drop mine after'.
No. Both sides will have to make concessions if this game wants to have any chance of improving.
I'll say 2 things:
- The devs really have to look at 'Camping Vs Gen Speeds' and do something, regardless of how the player base feels about it. Because the player base will never agree.
- They have to implement whatever fixes to both at the same time. Not nerf/punish camping, then fix gen speeds 6 months to a year later. Not fix gen speeds, then alter camping 6 to 12 months later.
If they don't fix both at the same time, in the same patch, one side or the other will riot. Either Killers will be stuck with 5 minute games and the inability to secure game-changing kills, or Survivors will have games drawn out while Killers camp.
And, honestly, I don't know if BHVR can do it. Not slinging mud, but they kind of have a history of speed-changing Killer's powers/perks ASAP while slowly adjusting Survivor's perks. Maybe that's why so many Killers don't see a change forthcoming; because it won't be an equal change, and will skew the game so hard for months, if not years.
Just look at this healy-boon; both sides seem to agree it's OP...And nothing has been changed. But I have a feeling, had it been a Killer perk? Within 7 days, there would have been a patch.
-
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706710#Comment_2706710
@Firellius is right, gen speeds have to be adjusted for the most effective tactic. The most effective tactic is tunneling-off-hook and camping, so gen speeds have to be adjust to that tactic. Killers have always camped and tunneled-off-hook, it's nothing new.
Fixing tunneling-off-hook and camping doesn't punish the Killer because Killers find it unfun to use these tactics also. Why do you think it's a punishment to fix tunneling-off-hook and camping while also reducing gen-speeds and healing speeds? Also, you have to remember tunneling-off-hook and camping is disproportionately worse for survivors than it is for Killers. However, it's bad for both sides.
Again, @Firellius is right about it being the lowest possible tactic. It's something Killers learn, even before they learn each killers power. Why should Killers be rewarded for something that doesn't require any effort. Shouldn't Killers be rewarded for actually doing something, such as successfully mind-gaming, which is far more tactical than sitting in front of a survivors face.
You have to remember that Survivors reward camping. Survivor mains ignore this fact to whine and complain, but if I camp, and Survivors don't pound those gens as fast as possible to prevent me from getting a 2,3, or 4K? Or if they come and camp the hook and wait for me to leave?
That is their fault.
Why should Killers be punished for 'camping' when it's Survivors who reward it? Oh, right; because Survivors are outright demanding the Killer shoulder the entire onus for the game being fun, at the expense of them winning. Survivors can genrush. Survivors can crouch-spam and use flashlight macros. Survivors can bully and BHVR says 'This is okay'.
But Killers camping, and Survivors rewarding it by hiding near the hook and DEMANDING they get free unhooks? That's just unfair, and all Killer's faults and why don't Killers think of Survivor's fun, and etc. etc.
'Why should Killers be rewarded for a tactic that requires no effort?" Rofl, the bias is large with you.
'I don't think this tactic is hard enough, so why should Killers benefit?' Once again; demanding Killers play in a way you approve of simply because you say so. That they should have to work harder for their kills because you don't want 'Easy tactics' rewarded.
If you can't see the massive bias in your entire post, then I don't need to try countering it, because nothing will get through to you.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706558#Comment_2706558
By spawn-deterrent, what do you mean?
Sorry, that's meant to be 'camping deterrent'. My bad.
Or immunity to being 'tunneled' when unhooked? Because there's perks for that. Anything built in would literally break the game at this point, given DH, DS, BT & Unbreakable. (Seriously; DS & Unbreakable = Killer Can't Win. They wait out DS? You stand up and run. They pick you up? You DS.)
Yeah, there's perks, but those cost perk slots. Not exactly fair to band-aid bad design by forcing players to just give up build variety.
And DS+UB = killer can't win? If you don't go for the unhooked target, DS never fires unless someone baits you into it. The ONLY times I ever got hit by DS is when I got baited into it and I could've easily avoided it.
And even DS UB isn't unstoppable. So they get up with UB, then what? You're on top of them and they go down in one hit. Hardly 'unbeatable'.
And all of this is on the premise that an anti-tunnelling measure needs to, for some godforsaken reason, leave room for the killer to continue tunnelling. It's laughable.
Or immunity to being camped? Any fix that I've ever read had massive exploits Survivors could abuse for free unhooks. To which the makers said 'That's the Killer's problem'. Which meant the fixes were less 'Play fair' and more 'Let me win, screw the other side'.
Aside from some of those complaints being complaints that anti-camping measures would make camping difficult; Just because a solution hasn't been found yet doesn't mean DBD doesn't -need- one.
Survivors need to let go of this 'punish tunneling/camping/slugging' because it will never go away. If a Killer wants to try to win; who gets to demand they do it 'my way'? Why do Survivors get to demand Killer tactics be removed/punished/nerfed?
Because, like it or not, survivors also play this game. Much like busted old DS and keys were gutted, other changes can, have and will be made to accommodate killers and improve their experience. The same can be extended to survivors. The more you entrench yourself in this idea of 'survivors shouldn't have a say in killer balance', the more you also discredit any idea for survivor nerfs.
Less 'us vs them', more 'how can we make the game better?'.
Why can Survivors pound out a gen in 60 seconds and say 'Killer's fault' and then get camped and say 'This is not fair'?
Because gens need to go this fast precisely because of camping. Because if you make gens slower, camping becomes stronger. Exactly as I said: Camping is the lynchpin to almost ALL of DBD's balancing problems. A TON of things that would make the game MUCH better cannot happen as long as camping still exists, because camping would just scale out of control.
It's nothing but a smokescreen for 'Let me win easier'.
You are literally advocating for the lowest possible effort strategy a killer can employ, buddy. Do you really think you have any kind of high ground here?
The first part is an ongoing argument, so I'll pass that.
As for claiming 'Gens speeds are fast because Killers camp'; you have it backwards: Killers started camping when they realized gens were going faster. But there you are; blaming Killers for Survivor's actions and 'fun'.
I've been in the game since launch; Killers rarely camped, because camping sucked, at the start. Until gen speeds sped up, thanks to perks and toolkits and an overall optimizing of Survivor's gameplay loops. At that point, Killers realized they HAD to get kills ASAP to slow down gen speeds, not trade hooks.
Show me anywhere where devs said 'We made gen speeds faster to compensate for camping'? You can't. Which means gen speeds WERE NOT optimized because Killers camp. Instead, since gens can only go so fast, it's more likely that Killers adopted new strats as Survivors got faster thanks to perks, items, addons, and a general building of personal skill.
But, of course, you look at the problem, blame Killers, then say it's Killers that must be punished/nerfed to fix it, then try to say 'But we should not do Us Vs Them' right after you did Us Vs Them.
And for 'advocating for the lowest possible effort strategy a killer can employ'.
There's that peer pressure. Shame Killers into avoiding tactics Survivors deem 'unacceptable', so they won't do them. Because Survivors feel they have this divine right to determine how their opponent plays. And if they can't scream for nerfs, they will use peer pressure, insults, and subtext (Camping is what BAD killers do! (Unsaid: You don't want to be a BAD killer, right?)) to alter their opponents behavior.
Even if you don't want to 'us vs them' the discussion; you sure do still partake of it while trying to demand I should not.
-
Are you kidding?
Strong Killers/Perks = Nerfed as they leave PTB.
Strong Survivor Perks = Nerf...sometime in the next 3 years, maybe, once Survivors are bored of using it to win all the time. But only if they say so! And only if we have something equally as strong to replace it with, so Survivors are not unhappy!
Edit: Typo
-
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706530#Comment_2706530
The fundamental problem with camping is the exact same: You lock someone into a death state. And nowhere did @Munqaxus say that DBD should have safe zones or random spawns or what-have-you, but they did imply that DBD needs -some kind- of spawn deterrent, like all other games with camping problems.
This is actually even more true of DBD, since it's asymmetrical. Camping is a lynch pin in a bunch of balancing issues. There's complaints that survivors clear their objectives too fast, but what happens if it gets slowed down? Sure, regular, 12 hook gameplay gets buffed, but not nearly as much as camping does. Killers will be more incentivised to just sit on hook and wait for the first target to die, since with slower gens, it'll pretty much guarantee a 2K or better.
Almost any kind of buff to killers and any kind of nerf to survivors is going to benefit campers more than it's going to benefit people who play legitimately. That's why camping is such a pressing issue: It's holding not just that one survivor on the hook hostage. It's holding the entire game itself hostage.
By spawn-deterrent, what do you mean?
Immunity so you can find & do gens when a match starts? That's hard fair, if the Killer finds you; you have free gen time now.
Or immunity to being 'tunneled' when unhooked? Because there's perks for that. Anything built in would literally break the game at this point, given DH, DS, BT & Unbreakable. (Seriously; DS & Unbreakable = Killer Can't Win. They wait out DS? You stand up and run. They pick you up? You DS.)
Or immunity to being camped? Any fix that I've ever read had massive exploits Survivors could abuse for free unhooks. To which the makers said 'That's the Killer's problem'. Which meant the fixes were less 'Play fair' and more 'Let me win, screw the other side'.
Survivors need to let go of this 'punish tunneling/camping/slugging' because it will never go away. If a Killer wants to try to win; who gets to demand they do it 'my way'? Why do Survivors get to demand Killer tactics be removed/punished/nerfed? Why can Survivors pound out a gen in 60 seconds and say 'Killer's fault' and then get camped and say 'This is not fair'?
Because they are the same thing; doing one's objective as efficiently as they feel is possible for the moment. Why do Survivors think they have a right to demand Killers play less efficiently? Why do they shove this bullshit under 'Fun' and 'Fair play', again, placing the onus for their 'fun' directly on how the Killer plays?
It's nothing but a smokescreen for 'Let me win easier'.
-
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706441#Comment_2706441
I think what @Kaitsja is trying to say is that being tunneled-off-hook until you are dead, prevents you from actually playing a game you bought. DS gives you 5 measly seconds, basically Sprint Burst + 2 seconds. Here is how tunneling-off-hook looks.
- You get to loop, use your exhaustion perk, use your hit-speed-burst.
- You get DS. You might get BT. You don't get your exhaustion perk unless you have DH or SB. You don't get your hit-speed-burst. You may get to loop if you are lucky enough to be close. If you aren't running DS, DH or SB, then your 2nd "life" has been removed.
- You might get BT. You don't get DS. You don't get your exhaustion perk unless it's DH or SB. You don't get your hit-speed-burst. You don't get to loop. Your entire 3rd "life" has been removed.
If you aren't running the meta perks, DS, DH or SB, or your teammate isn't running BT, then your game is over after the 1st chase.
Any other game you play has deterrents to camping, because it's miserable gameplay. You have safe zones, random spawns, etc. DBD needs to go back to game-design 101.
This game is too different to give 'safe zones' and 'anti-camping' mechanics, because the Killer literally has to camp to win sometimes, and Survivors would run into a safe zone with Sprint Burst and Dead Hard every time they are chased.
If you can't understand that different games have different designs, and no boilerplate template will apply to everything, then YOU need game design 101.
IE: Just because other games do it does not mean DBD should do it. This is a lazy excuse to demand punishments to Killer tactics so Survivors can win more easily. Nothing more.
-
@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2706422#Comment_2706422
Problem is at this point everything seems to be boring for survivor on these forums. Getting chased is boring. Sitting on gens is boring. Doing bones is boring. Everything is boring. Everything is boring.
Unless the killer takes it upon themselves to not play to enjoy a game but play to make sure you enjoy the game Everything is boring. Everything is boring.
Its like the forums/reddit want killer players to be the DM but forget most people only tolerate being DM because it means they get to tell a story. In DbD that usually just means getting repeatedly stunned for the survivors amusement.
Otherwise everything is boring.
Everything is boring.
Exactly.
Killer wins: Screams to nerf slugging/tunneling/camping because 'they are boring'. As if the Killer is meant to create Survivor's fun at the expense of their own.
Literally the excuses to nerf or remove or punish camping/tunneling/slugging were 'It's a boring way to play' and 'I'm bored on hook'. Yet it's not the Killer's goal to make Survivors have fun.
Survivor's counter? It should be. Don't go for the 4K, because it's boring. Give the hatch because it's nice. Don't tryhard because it's boring. Stop being mean and Survivors will stop being mean. It's on Killer's to sacrifice first and HOPE Survivors follow suit. Except...
Except; that never works in reverse. Ever. I have NEVER, in all my years of playing DBD, had a Survivor go 'Man, having a 4-Man escape is boring. Someone should die to the Killer so he can have fun'. The onus for 'fun' is always on the Killer. It's the Killer's fault if the Survivors are unhappy, but who cares of the Killer is unhappy, right?
-
@Percival_nxs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705466#Comment_2705466
Completely agree, map offerings are just stupid.
Offerings in general are stupid.
Survivors: Get 4 offerings (1 each) to alter the state of the game, or change where the map goes.
Killers: Get 1 offering to do the exact same thing.
Such balance, much wow.
-
@BreadTube said:
No offense to tru3 but he complains too much to give him much merit anymore. Most other killers that aren't treating this game like a diamond match on OW don't think survs have too much power.
Even Otz will, at times, admit Survivors have too much power. And that dude is about as chill as can be.
-
@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705417#Comment_2705417
Sadly this mirrors my own experience. While finishing all the different Adept Killer achievements I sometimes even apologized to the survivors for playing so balls to the walls and no quarter given. I can't remember a single time were survivors showed any sympathy to me when they steamrolled.
Some people solve this problem for themselves by saying "you are enemies on opposing camps. You don't suppose to like each other" and that might be true to a certain extent, but this is still a game and the opposition is still just another playwr trying to enjoy a flawed, but pretty cool, game, so why does it hurt so many people pride to show some respect and decency to the other side?
I had a few games recently: I got a 4K as Wraith. After I killed the last Survivor; he FLAMED me in endgame chat with how 'real Killers give the hatch' and I was 'sweating for the 4K'. Because Killers are toxic tryhards if they don't give an escape, apparently.
So, played a few more matches, got into a 4K again; gave last Survivor the exit gate. 'Baby Killer! Could not get a 4K!' #########, I GAVE you the escape! Or did you think I forgot how to move while carrying you, and forgot how to attack while I followed you to the gate!?
Killers can. Not. Win.
We get a 4K? We are tryhard, sweaty, and 'should be happy with a 2K' because the all-powerful Survivors demand it so. They also demand they be one of 2 allowed to escape, and this goes for all Survivors, so Killers should get be happy with 0K due to Survivor Loophole Skills.
We let people go? We get insulted by idiots who can't comprehend they did not escape due to anything less than their l33t awesome 360 noscope sponsored by Doritos skill.
So I just play to win now, because Survivors have sucked literally every ounce of fun out trying to be nice or enjoying the game in a friendly manner. if I'm going to be verbally thrashed by salty, Mtn Dew-powered 13 year old edgelords either way; why should I do anything but play my absolute hardest to win?
It should be noted, in endgame chat: I always say 'gg', nothing, or if someone is trying really hard to insult me; 'rofl'.
-
@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705068#Comment_2705068
Honestly with that logic, you’re not wrong but I think it’s only fair to admit that killers have the same ######### mentality at times too. Just because a bunch of people exclusively play survivor has that mindset doesn’t mean that all survivors and only survivors should be generalized that way. Comments like yours are part of the reason the community is so divided.
You're not wrong, but I see it more from Survivors.
If play a Killer and get steamrolled? Survivor bile. 'ggez' 'git gud' 'baby killer' etc.
I play Killer and barely win? Survivor bile. More 'ggez', 'baby killer' 'barely won' etc.
I play Killer and steamroll? Survivor bile. 'Filthy camper/tunneler/slugger', 'scrub killer' etc.
I player Survivor and we lose? Survivor bile at their teammates.
I play Survivor and we barely win? Survivor bile at the Killer.
Play Survivor and we steamroll? More Survivor bile at the Killer.
I hate to say it, but I rarely, rarely see a Killer attacking Survivors after a match. Usually they just bail to the next match.
More than half the time; It's Survivors cutting the Killer down for winning, or kicking him for losing, or blaming their teammates for losing. There's a reason 'The Survivor's Handbook For Killers' became a meme, and it's not because of Killers.
-
@BreadTube said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705340#Comment_2705340
I don't want gen speed boons, that would just outright unfair. More like blast mine & repressed alliance kinda boons.
Oh god. I'm imagining a boon totem that Blast Mine's every gen in it's aura. Gods, no. 😐️
-
@BreadTube said:
No, imo boons are fine as is. I hope they add some speed & gen one's next.
No. Gens go too damn fast as it is.
Literally, Survivors can knock out all 5 gens in the space of time it takes a Killer to find, chase, hit, chase, hit, pickup, and hook ONE SURVIVOR.
If they make gens times even half a second shorter: There will be no reason to play Killer. It will be impossible to get anything more than a 2-man kill, and that's if the Killer plays flawlessly, given the short gen speeds, and the 500 second-chance perks Survivors have, plus Cheat With Friends & voice comms giving then an added 5 awareness perks for free.
There should never, EVER be anymore perks that in any way, shape, or form, reduce gen times by even a fraction of a second.
-
@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2704625#Comment_2704625
Boons are definitely an issue - an infinitely renewable bonus of multiple perks for all survivors simultaneously? That's insanely unbalanced even just as a concept.
Survivors: NoED is OP. Who cares if we can break it forever by doing 5 totems spread amongst 4 teammates!
Also Survivors: Boon totems are fine. A infinitely-rebuildable totem that takes up the Killer's time to remove is 100% fair and balanced.
-
Either Boon totems only last once, or Hex totems can be relit.
This garbage of Survivors having stronger totem effects, that they can light infinitely, has to go. Or makes Killer's totem perks match.
Won't happen, because Survivors are the favored players, but it should.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705194#Comment_2705194
You talk about the “hive mind” but 4-person swfs are actually kind of rare. Something like half of games have a 2-4 person swf and half are all solo based on dev stats. And of the swfs about half of those are 2-person and 1/3 or 1/4 of swfs are 3-person. It’s only something like 5-10% of games that have a 4-person swf.
I'm still convinced they made that up to keep Killers from staging a mass exodus over being turned into walking jokes in Bullied By Survivors: The Game.
-
@dugman said:
Trapper is probably more average than too weak. His traps are a bit cumbersome to collect but they can be good for blocking out zones at loops and even one or two people stepping in a trap can build a lot of momentum since they’re instant downs if the trapper gets to the victim fast enough. His stats are probably weaker at the high end than against average players since veteran players are more likely to have the game awareness to spot the traps before stepping in them, but on the overall I’m betting he’s relatively ok-ish in terms of his stats. 🤷♂️
Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t complain if he got a buff or revamp to make it take a bit less time to gather his traps, etc. I’m just skeptical he’s as weak as the original post makes him out to be.
Oh, he is weak.
The plethora of second chance perks, plus Cheat With Friends completely nullifying his traps with 0 perk investment, makes him a joke.
1 Survivor sees your trap; the hive mind all know where it is. And I don't buy the 'I don't report his traps!' BS most Survivors say to cover up how hard Cheat With Friends breaks this game; watch even the laziest SWF group play; They will call out where the killer is/where traps are (Trapper or Hag) without thinking about it.
-
Honestly, to stymie the ever-present Cheat With Friends hive-mind; his traps should be invisible outside of, say, 15M (Number can be changed).
Something that prevents Cheat With Friends from calling out his traps from across the map, but makes them visible JUST early enough to avoid while walking, but will probably get someone trapped if they are sprinting.
-
@Tiufal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705008#Comment_2705008
A killer pickung up should never be trumping another survivor whos able to bodyblock.
Yes it should because the Killer is (supposedly) the power role.
Tell you what; get between a friend who is laying on the ground, and someone standing up. Now tell the person standing up to get around you to touch your friend on the ground.
$10 says they can literally slam you out of the way.
Now imagine a Killer that is usually 50% bigger and 100% heavier than the Survivors; if he wants to pick up your friend; he should be able too. Because he is the power role. And, as the power role, he should not have the WEAKER interaction priority.
-
I honestly think the trapper should be able to 'lob' a trap maybe 5 yards ahead of him, but they take 2 seconds to arm, so they can't be used to end a chase.
So he can throw a trap into a loop while still moving, thus denying the Survivor the loop unless they cross the trap VERY quickly. But he can't throw it in front of a running Survivor; he lacks the range, and the arm-time of 2 seconds means the Survivor will just run over it before it sets.
-
@Veinslay said:
This game was at its best right before MMR came in. Since then we've had MMR, boons, and dead hard validation. Every single lobby is 4 DHs, at least one CoH, 3+ Iron Wills, and then all 2nd chance perks. Couple in the broken map design and It's obnoxious. No excitement towards playing killer at all IMO with all that
A-men.
Killers have so few 'second chance' perks, while Survivors get enough to fill 2 loadouts before repeating. And the one good second chance perk (NoED); Survivors are hellbent on convincing the devs that it needs massive nerfs.
I can't even enjoy playing Killer anymore:
I do good; I get flamed.
I do bad; I get flamed.
Even with endgame chat closed; Survivors will spam trying to add me to friends so they PM-flame me. And I've had to set my profile as private because I got sick of scrubbing all the 'Durr! -rep! CAMPS!' vomit off the wall.
I get Killers can be toxic, too. But I feel like I see way more toxicity from Survivors, win or lose, as a Killer or a Survivor.
They blame the killer for 'cheap tactics' and rationalize this is an excuse to treat them like garbage. They blame teammates for not reading their minds, or not sacrificing themselves for them, and flame them.
But it's almost never a Survivor's personal fault; always someone else.
And yes; Killers can do the same 'They did not win! <perk> is OP and GAVE them the win! RAGE!'. But it seems less common.
-
@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705058#Comment_2705058
Yes. Also if survivors steamroll, its killer's fault cause they should play better, since they are OP
This does seem to be the Survivor mentality.
Killers Steamroll: OMG! OP! Nerf! Give us free perks and tactics because Killers steamrolling are OP! Punish camping! Punish slugging! Punish tunneling! Punish Killers winning!
Survivors Steamroll: Git gud, Killer! Just stop whining and learn to play! Clicks flashlight faster while t-bagging.
-
@legacycolt said:
Ok but then built in unbreakable for all survivors so killers can’t just slug and camp the slug.
Rofl no. Not unless Killers get built in NoED.
Why in all the hells would Survivors get a built-in free get up just because they can't exploit healing overriding pickups anymore? Just because Survivors always need everything their way?
-
So what happens if Survivors steamroll? If a chase takes 3 minutes and Survivors had 4 purple toolkits & banged out 4 gens?
Or is it only Killers that are not allowed a steamroll?