Akumakaji
Akumakaji
About
- Username
- Akumakaji
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636227#Comment_3636227
What exactly is the risk of the tunnelling failing, though?
Anti-tunnel tools aren't that strong, so it's solely down to map resources and the skill of the survivor you're chasing. The latter is a non-starter because if they're that good you wouldn't want to chase them to begin with, so that means that - meaningfully - it's random chance if tunnelling can be countered, rather than perks or skill. Not a good place for that tactic to be, in my opinion.
If the survivor could use perks to bridge the gap and better express their skill, because the killer has to invest time into actual hit-blocking and a proper DS stun which would give them time to get to resources, it being risk/reward would be the case. Currently, it's not, so tunnelling is just the easier option in a lot of matches.
Maybe its just me, but I sometimes actually do lose survivors, when they turn a corner in an unexpected way and hide behind something while I don't notice. Sticking to a survivor is not guranteed for me to catch them, but maybe thats just me being bad and everyone else has a 100% successful chase rate?
Non-the-less, I actually explained the risks of tunneling in my original reply to you pretty well: while tunneling you leave the other survivors freely at their gens, putting a hard 90s timer (or less) on the first 3 gens and another 90 (plus maybe 20 traversal/search time) on the last two. If you can't tunnel and kill the survivor in 200s, you lost, because you gave away all gen protection in favor of tunneling and no other survivor has any hooks.
If the tunnel fails and that survivor you were tunneling somehow gets away, you got nothing to show for your effort, but all the disadvantages, ie you lost 3-4 gens with the fifth probably already under way, and the escaped survivor resetting and helping the wash up, while staying low. Tunneling is an inherent risky proposition, as you hand the gens scott free to the survivors and if you can't translate the tunnel into a kill, you lose it all.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636123#Comment_3636123
You bring up some good points here.
I don't necessarily agree with tunneling being required, I think it is still possible to secure a win without doing it. But I definitely agree with what you said regarding the change in playstyles after the meta "adjustments".
I really miss the days where survivors only had Dead Hard to work with, because the rest of their build was made to counter tunneling and slugging, while the killer didn't resort to those strategies because he had BBQ stacks to collect. Was playing as effectively and as scummy as possible a possibility? Yes, but it wasn't the normal scenario of an average trial and that was an excellent thing.
Reading through patch notes 6.1.0 again, it is no wonder that it caused playstyles to be shifted and eventually led to unfun situations. There is just so much wrong with that patch that it is hard to know where to start.
I know some people disagree with me when I say this game was better in the past, and they have every right to do so, but I don't think anyone would truly be opposed to going back to the gameplay you've described as the fun and kinda tense games we used to have.
Although that would require changing the way people approach this game, and that isn't easy to do.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636154#Comment_3636154
Asylum isn't that bad for Freddy. But if you get RPD, may the Entity have mercy upon you because the game won't.
Thanks :)
Well, of course it is possible to secure wins without tunneling, but it has become much, much harder of late, with the survivors prioritising gens before anything else and splitting up has no downside. Sometimes you can spook a survivor away from a gen, while chasing another, but the good survivors will return to the gen the very second your back is turned on them. Literally. And this leads to the infamous 3 gens popping by the time the first chase concludes.
If this happens, you got 1 hook and the survivors only have 2 gens to go, what are you going to do at this point? Well, you can try to defend gens and hunt someone new and pingpong between them and the first hooked survivor, this is kinda the most "fair" way to handle it, but even then survivors will complain that you ignored one or two of them.
I know that I am pretty alone on this hill, but I think the early game can too easily be a desastrous for the killer, like you picked the wrong survivor, they get away and then 3 gens pop without even one hook. I personally would want a PTB to explore the possibilty of prohibiting splitting up at the very beginning by making gens repair extremely slow and inefficient when all 7 are still standing, but this inefficiency malus going away as more and more gens get done and the map shrinks. It just feels aweful to have so many gens pop in unision and knowing that you are already backed against the wall, while the match has barely started. To compensate for this, we could also implement some hard anti tunneling mechanics while the survivors havn't completed many gens, like if you pick up a survivor at 4 gens that you just hooked, they get an auto DS (5s) and free unbreakable if you slug them, thus incentivising the killer to go after fresh prey.
Of course, stuff like this is taking agency away and make the game play more to a script, but this would be an option to slow down the early game. My ideas here are just brainstorming level, though, so don't come down hard on my by pointing out holes in them. But thats the general idea that I would try to go for: make splitting up early undesirable and give survivors hard anti-tunneling during the early game. I don't think that the game would suffer with such new mechanics.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636102#Comment_3636102
I stand by it being comparably strong. Not equally strong, tunnelling is stronger, but successfully employing any number of other tactics focused on better macro strategy and game sense is in the same leagues of strength. It's just not as easy to do, which is an important distinction.
And yes, you're almost right. Tunnelling should be doing something substantially weaker while banking on being able to get someone out fast, at which point you're in a stronger position. However, right now, there's extremely little risk, so there's no real "banking on" involved, you just will be in a better spot once you've finished tunnelling someone out because anti-tunnel is too weak and thus the only "risk" is if the survivor you're chasing is substantially better than you. Which is possible, but only through matchmaking mishaps, and since those need to be fixed it's not a good idea to rely on them for balance reasons.
So, no, I don't want "more risk than is already there", because there's meaningfully no risk in a majority of scenarios. I want there to be risk, the kind that makes the average killer stop and rethink, because the average killer wouldn't even conceptualise tunnelling as a risky strategy to begin with - and why would they, when there isn't all that much risk to notice right now?
As for your last point, no, I'm contesting how strong not tunnelling is. I agree tunnelling is strong, it's the alternatives I'm saying are being undervalued. For the additional point, yep. Not tunnelling is currently in a pretty damn good spot, and tunnelling is currently in an over-inflated bad spot. I want the bad thing to be addressed and don't see much need for changing the good thing.
I would also add, considering "not tunnelling" is just... playing the whole game, normally, it's going to benefit from any changes that come in the future. BHVR have been making pretty steady changes and improvements to the killer role, and a lot of them are more meaningful to you if you're not tunnelling someone out ASAP. Those aren't going to stop, so no dedicated "don't tunnel" incentive needs to be devised to fix tunnelling- just fix it, and killers can benefit from the steady stream of buffs and tweaks already in motion.
I always consider tunneling a risky strategy, as it lets the three other survivors do as they want ... or two, while one shadows me with a flashlight/flashbang. If the tunneling fails, the survivor will get away, hide, reset, while 2 or 3 gens pop without me interfering. Thats pretty risky in my eyes.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Tunneling is never necessary. Its just easy. Everyone here knows it.
What a load of manure. Aggressiv blanked statements like this help no one and only addfuel to the fire of "us vs them". You can't expect empathy from "the other side" if you lack it yourself. Both sides play miserable at this point and its everyones guess how to improve things, but claiming that one sides plight is completely invalid doesn't help at all.
-
@Cellardoor said:
Gens are the wildcard in DBD's balance and their speed/completion time is currently balanced by the Claudette self-caring in a corner for 60 seconds and the David just doing his "open x chests" tome challenge for half the match.
If the teams is actually sticking to gens and doesn't leave them as soon as they hear the Terror Radious, and you have someone with minimal loop knowledge being chased first, the killer gets their first hook at 2 gens left, easily.
Gens are wildely inconsistent.
And when a Killer tunnels right from the get go in the match, I usually THINK (and I say this as someone who plays more survivor) they're doing that because they don't know what gens they're going to get this time, not because they want to hurt someone's feeling playing the game.
This is probably the best comment in this whole thread.
-
@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633604#Comment_3633604
Does it matter what we call it? The ideas the same.
Tunnel gens, gen rushing, tunnel kills, kill rushing. It's all the same in the sense of "I'm mowing down my objective efficiently because I want to win".
There's plenty of IRL examples of the same thing being referred to with different names/words/phrases. I don't see why all of a sudden in a game it NEEDS to be referred to as only 1 specific word/phrase.
Everyone knows what's being referred to.
The main point is: you're focusing you're objective I'm focusing mine. It hurts your "feelings" to get killed quickly? Well maybe it bothers killers too to have gens finished quickly.
If you want killers to consider your feelings on losing too quickly you need to respect theirs as well. As long as many if not most survivor players refuse to show the killer any respect or kindness in this regard, especially out of the flimsy defense of "ThE GeNs DoNt HaVe FeELinGs", things will remain as they are.
Sure the gens don't, but the killer player does. Why should they respect your feelings and your play, if you don't respect theirs?
When I explained one game in the post game chat that I hard tunneled, because the survivors all split up and put so much pressure on my and gave me no breathing room, everywhere I went, there was a gen 75% done, I was accused of tripping and being ludicrous.
Survivors splitting up on gens was not the norm 2 years back, but 6.1 made it so, and now you can't put the genie back into the bottle. Nowadays survivors know that splitting up is THE most efficient way to tackle gens, so nearly everyone is doing it as the standard MO and killers are not allowed to question this, but have to live with the consequences.
But really, this is one of the main culprits of why matches these days go by so fast and both sides feel like they are backed against the wall and need to DO someting: both sides discovered the most efficient way to play during the 6.1 aftermath and the game has never been the same, since.
And games are so fast these days, you can't just easily switch gears when you are stomping, most of the time its too late at that point. Also, not sealing the deal at that point might still cost you the game. Survivors often complain that the killer tunneled at "4 gens left", ignoring the fact that 3 of this 4 gens were being worked at and at 50-75% done. If the killer switched targets at that point, it would be "ggeeeez", so tunneling is the only option to not loose in an embarrassing way.
The fun, kinda tense games of the past, where the killer found one survivor, chased and eventually downed them, while one gen popped, then they roamed and found another survivor, downed them, another gen popped while the survivor on hook got rescued, thats not coming back. The efficiency on both sides dictate that 2-3 gens pop by the end of the first chase, and this puts the killer already in such a bad spot that the gloves come off and the tunneling starts at one hook.
-
Really, the way condemned locked in after a hook seemed such an elegant mechanic and solution to make Sadako scary, while also forcing her to hook people. The hard cap to 2 feels again extremely tone deaf to what makes her tick and what her problems are. Of course, you can't make everything perfect, and neither should you, but all the excitement I felt to play her went down the drain and I feel zero incentive now to throw Sadako into my killer rotation. This hard cap is a real killjoy and party pooper ... oh well, at least Billy will be exciting to play, but Sadako is basically dead on arival again.
-
Freddy is an icon of horror, one of the absolute big shots and his DBD incarnation is so sad and uncreative. There are a numerous threads and posts about how to improve him without really reworking his power and coding new assets, but if you were really determined to throw in some effort, he could be extremely awesome and creative. The dreamworld offers so many possibilities, that are just utterly untapped and left to fester. Like Freddy as a whole.
So for me a Freddy rework would be an 8 or 9, the only thing the game needs more is an add-on pass for Pyramid Head, because he is my main <3
-
She can be quite stealthy with the right upgrades, getting undetectable for 8s after placing a drone. Her drones can also damage a survivor after scanning them 3 times and this will often lead to random survivors getting damaged around the map, giving you some unforseen opportunities at a quick downs should you run into them.
I still think that her claw traps are underutilised, you basically never have a read on a survivor when you need it, but just at random times. I like playing her every nite and then and survivor's still hate her. Be ready to get a lot of hate directed your way just for playing her, even if it's pure Chasemerchant. The hate for her seems to be hard baked into the community by now.
-
Yeah, the base daily Rituals feel kinda lackluster and unrewarding. They motivate me to play killers I usually don't play, but it's actually not worth it from a pure BP perspective.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629073#Comment_3629073
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629081#Comment_3629081
Can you all explain to me why these killer mains insist that survivors are somehow in a good spot if the killer is kicking the same gen 8 times? It just seems like the survivors are throwing the game from my perspective, and I can’t imagine losing a game as any killer under such a circumstance. But it appears to be a major concern for the killer mains here and on Reddit. Why?
With the old gen tapping a survivor could have very easily baited out 3 or so events by just running around a tight loop and 8 might have run out pretty quickly, but with the new gen tapping mechanic its not that easily abused and quite fair game.
I guess many players are just seeing it from the old perspective, without taking both mechanics into account. With both mechanics in place 8 regression events just puts a hard counter on the whole thing, but only a true, classic 3 gen situation will ever get close to this numbers.
Just like with the anti camp, it's more the looming threat of running out of events that will make killers commit to chases, then killers actually running out of regressions, and I think that's a good thing.
-
Dwight, hands down. But I also hate his present 🎁 outfit.
-
BHVR just give he man his splinter. Do it quietly, don't make a fuzz about it, we will never speak of this again, just do it for a friend and the sake of old times.
Cheers. BTW, you are doing good of late and putting in the effort. We like and appreciate that as a whole.
-
@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625969#Comment_3625969
I wouldn't be surprised. Some Killers would rather stay in a match until the servers shut down instead of "losing". That's how much of an ego war they take upon.
Same for the survivors who stay for 1h. Its an ego vicious circle.
-
@Marc_go_solo said:
It's rare, but when I face a group of Survivors who have clearly been screwed by the MR system, I tend to play the Trial by chasing each Survivor in turn and hook each Survivor twice (or until their final state, if they aren't rescued soon enough), then showing I'm friendly and either doing faux chases, getting then to stun and do gens under pressure.
There's zero pleasure in destroying a clearly inexperienced team and we're trying to keep people in the game, so I can't see a sane reason to just be a twat when you know they clearly have been screwed.
Same. Something that I noticed in this cases, though, is the UTTER inexperience of this players. Sometimes when I hook someone the second time and basically RUN to the other side of the map and hide there, the others are too afraid to go for the unhook. Its really depressing to see someone dying on hook with you not even pressuring anyone. It has been said a couple of times, but this game is really, really bad at explaining its basics and it couldn't hurt to revise the basic tutorials and add some advice about common tactics or how stuff actually works.
-
I will never forget that Nemesis I played 2 months or so back. It was cin RPD and he played decent, but fell for every single juke or mindgame and while he got a couplecof hooks, we had an undeserved 4E, because Nemi was so confused by bodyblocks and why he couldn't move on towards the exit gates.
The post game chat solved the mystery: 2550 hours me had played a 20h Nemesis! And my other teammates were no noobies either, sporting 650 to 1000h in DBD.
Really, no matter the lobby time, but stuff like this should not happen. At all. But this is fine, I guess.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Better Than New is just garbage version of Leader.
Hyperfocus is good perk but i need to bring more perks for make it effective. Instead of that, i just can use better gen speed perks and then i can free my other perk slots. Hyperfocus is just not worth it.
Reassurance is only perk can be meta to counter proxy camping but activate range is so small. So if BHVR buff this perk a bit for larger range, then we can use this perk. Right now activating this perk costs you health state most times. For basement, it's imposible tho.
For real, the drive by of Reassurance is so close that you could just take the hit and unhook unsafe anyway. I think you should at least have been able to use be perk on someone in the basement by loitering a bit around the area, then we wouldn't have needed this whole, convoluted Anti-Facecamp thing.
I still think that the nerf to Reassurance was done for the wrong reason and handled absolutely horrendous, ie "oh some one in a million survivor could keep someone hostage on the hook, so let's make the perk borderline useless by only giving it a single use per person per hook".
Instead they should have gone by a token system: Reassurance got 3 tokens and you could use them up any way you deem fit, maximum 3 per hook stage. This way one single Reassurance user could waste a lot of time of the killer without keeping anyone hostage and with a hard limit. And even two people could take the perk and apply it to both hook stages.
And the easiest fix of them all would have been to just allow a survivor on the hook to overwrite Reassurance with a double tap or something.
-
One simple fix: let SWFs of any kind have only one instance of any perk. This will mostly hurt the strong, coordinated SWF, where you will see things like "4 MFT/DH, 4 Resilience, 4 Head On" etc. while only minimally impacting SWFs of friends who just wanna play together and goof around.
SoloQ would be totally unfazed by this ruling and anyone backfilling another lobby could bring any loadout they want.
This simple rule alone would also cut down the power and grieving potential of coordinated SWFs massively, without cutting into the other players fun too much or punishing people for playing with friends. This rule would just moderate the most outrageous forms of SWFs power plays.
On a sidenote, showing a killer SWFs before the match is silly, but telling then afterwards would be massively beneficial: it would help alleviate the stress and bruised egos that they "lost because they played against a 4man premade" and not allow those players to gaslight the killer "lol, no, we're just soloQ and never met before. You are just bad.", while also showing killers how often they stomped not so good SWFs teams or how many of their last-minute-turn-arounds where against SWFs and probably due to altruism instead of strictly playing for the win. It would have more benefit then drawbacks and help improve the mood and atmosphere surrounding SWFs.
-
Lol what? I mean, for real? Its the first "fun and friendly" interaction killers and survivors have since the inception of the game. Sure, its a "battle" or "conflict" or whatever, but its also childs play and there are no stakes attached. You can even ignore snow balls completely, but I have so many games devolve into spontaneous snowball matches, and thats the best thing about this event.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614984#Comment_3614984
At least Huntress is fun to face. She has limited hatches, both sides can outplay each other. I am enjoying against her. And when i go against insane Huntress, they always amazes me.
But Trickster? This killer is braindeadly easy and his power is so annoying to go against. BHVR somehow made him even worse to face.
I am always amazed what people think is "brainded easy". To me "braindead easy" would literally mean that you could just turn your brain off and go by autopilot and easy cues ... like those WOO players that beeline to the next yellow highlight, predrop, beeline to the next, rinse, repeat. Thats braindead gameplay, because its utterly uninteractive, unskillful and it even relegates the killers role to a robotic one, where they can just break one pallet after the next with basically no chance to do anything meaningful in chase and the only option is either to break chase or to continue breaking pallet and racing to the next one like an automaton.
Trickster on the other hand has to make a whole lot of decisions and do mechanically well. His power is not "click here and win", his knives don't automatically hit survivors, nor do small loops automatically "play themselves". He might get comparable "cheap hits" at otherwise safe pallets or loops, but thats just his power. The player behind still has to aim and still has to do something to earn a down. I never really understood where the "braindead" part came into play.
And at high level Trickster play there are all this trickshots through smol gaps in shack or three windows and a door to the other side of the saloon. Really, watch some of that trickshot compilations and talk about braindead.
-
A survivor playing it perfectly is neight impossible to catch, they get their fast vaults, know all the tiles in an out, greed pallets to the absolute max and wait at all the check points, mitigating most mind games, relegating the killer to more of a reactive role, then a proactive, while the other three survivors slam gens.
The killer can also mindgame, for example by moonwalking and thus hiding their red stain, but this is much harder then waiting at a check point, due to the nature of moonwalking, ie going in blind and not knowing what the situation will be.
All this accumulates much more favorably for the survivors side, which is why high level play for killers is so stressful (or at least to a high slice of the killer demographic), while many great survivors are utterly fearless and even seek the killer out in order to bait them into a pointless and fruitless chase.
Yes, the killer player also plays it perfectly in this scenario, but still, the survivors have ways of manipulation things in a way that they don't have to rely on the throw of a die on a 50/50, because they can wait and see and then react, while the killers mindgames often require blind faith and a prayer that the survivor messes up or plays along.
-
I am beyond that, because NWTH has been one of my favorite perks ever since its inception. But I also always knew that there is no way in hell that it would survive the nerf hammer and would inevitable be smashed into pieces ... so this kill switch is either a first taste of whats to come, or a way to get used to the separation pains. Either way, with a heavy heart I will soldier on.
-
Survivors. 95%
-
I remember that Wesker had a bug right at the start of last anniversary event that lead to him being kill switched and Wesker mains were up in arms "Ugh, that means he won't be around to farm cakes/flans/terrormizus with? That can't be real!!" and BHVR actually fixed him in like 4 days or something. But that wasn't during the big winter holliday layoff, so anything goes, I guess.
-
@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613136#Comment_3613136
Actually the killer can see Blast Mine- A trapped generator will have a flashbang sitting on top of it emitting faint amounts of smoke to warn the killer that the gen is trapped(although just about no one pays attention to it). That's why occasionally you can find a killer who certainly kicks gens, but will almost always actively avoid kicking trapped gens since some killers do look out for the warning sign.
This is not right, the smol blast mine with the smoke emitting can only be seen by survivors, to the killer the gen looks like any other. Some killers might have the experience, thought. A 75%+ worked on gen thats left sorta on purpose, for example. Or if the killer got hit by a blastmine earlier that match and now just becomes warry around your gens.
But at other times the 4s stun is worth it to it, even when you suspect a blast mine being in play, because the other option would be to wait out 3 min or let the survivors finish the gen uncontended. Often Blastmine players are just having fun with that perk (like me) or use it to finish Blind & Stun challenges without much of a hassle (also me), because they suck at using flashlights and a single blastmine counts as both, a blind AND a stun, giving your 2 pips on Blind & Stund challenges.
-
Even after 6 years, this post is still relevant as back when it was written. Thats actually crazy, when you wrap your head around it.
-
I wounder this myself. Some crazy peeps might actually write lists of players to avoid in lobbies, but that couldn't be many.
Most of the time it would ACTUALLY show killers that 80% of the times they made a stunning comeback after a bad first half if the game was due to overtly altruism from a duo or tri SWF group, and that can't be that bad.
On the other hand it would also help to mend egos when you could verify that the group that totally tabled you without you gotten any chance was indeed a 4man SWF. And those situations where they gaslight you ala "lol, you tripping? We never played before, you just bad and malding." would be a thing if the past.
I see literally no significant downsides to showing who was in bed with whom after the match and just being honest to everyone involved.
-
I will never cease to advocate for my personal take on Hex/totem revision, until BHVR gives it a try in a PTB. Here we go:
1) at the start of the game all Hexes are sustained by The Entity. That means that all totems on the map are dulls and the survivors can do with them as they please: cleanse them, ignore them, boon them, use them to power up perks like Overzealous and Inner Healing etc.
2) after a certain time (I would say 90s, but 120s could also work) The Entities protection ceases and all of the killers Hexes are moved to any remaining dull totems on the map, from left to right in their perk loadout. That means that if the killer got a full loadout, but the survivors cleansed 2 totems, the last Hex would now fizzle out.
Thats basically it. It would make nearly all hexes viable again, while not intruding on survivors ability to utilize totems or getting in the way of tome challenges, achievments or bone hunters. Killers would get a certain guarenteed uptime for their hexes and the increased viability of hexes should increase their usage rate, while not being overtly oppressive.
-
@bjorksnas said:
Have you tried setting it to wumbo
Also if you feel it happens way to much or too often maybe its a good time for a break
Multiplayer games aren't really the staple for feeling in control. Even games with high individual room for skill expression have limits. Play some single player for a bit and relax rather than worry about your next win or what will happen next match
Whenever I play a single player game I am literally BLOWN AWAY by how responsive, fluid and slick the controls feel. It makes going back to playing killers, who are purposefully sluggish and clunky, extra painful and its so sad that this is one of the main ways of balancing killers. Maybe thise mean survivor mains would tea-bag and laugh at the killers for being "big dum oafs" and "OMG how could he miss me? He dumb?" a bit less if they realised that its hard-baked into the game mechanics and controls. But who am I trying to fool? Nah ...
-
@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612767#Comment_3612767
Look at the sheer math, you could heal yourself in like 8 seconds with a medkit (or faster even) and 16 seconds with a boon. The math objectively shows how strong it is. It meant that the killer could not split pressure since any injuries without a down was a time loss almost every time which absolutely murders the killer's pressure.
Being able to heal yourself at the same speed or faster than another survivor could heal you was just simply too strong. I don't see how math wise it could not be.
This problem is a direct correlation to the player bases skill level having far surpassed the games mechanics. If you were to take a mediocre survivor of todays meta and put them in a 2017 match, everyone would think that they were cheating, because they know techniques and tactics that were invonceivable at the games origins.
Nowadays we have all this techs and most players know the games basics in and out, so while technically they should heal, from a game design perspective, their skills tell them "nah, lets just slam this gen and be done with it."
You can't blame the players for this, but the players have evolved much faster then the game they are in and by now its showing very vividly. The game could need some big health updates and internal revisions, but its doubtful that BHVR will ever find the time to do so, with their 3 month release shedule. And I don't know if its even possible on a technical level to modernize some of the games aspects and mechanics.
Something like a dynamic games director that helps the side getting stomped a little bit without the other side getting the feeling that they are "rewarded for losing".
-
It is like we are talking about renovating and refurbishing a very rundown house that could be real lil jewel box, if finished. We got a leaky roof, several smashed windows, the front door isn't closing, there is vermin everywhere, electricity and internet connection is quite spotty and there is even a bush growing in the living room.
So you ask the owner "what are we going to tackle next? I am down for everything." and they tell you "yeah, I bought one nice bucket of wood stain, the mail box is a bit crooked and we will straighten it up and also give it a shiny new coat of paint" "Yeah ok, thats quick and easy. What next? What of the big, pressing issues?" "..." and then you are hit with silence.
You got all this REALLY big problems that they are seemingly too afraid to tackle in any way, and then you have this issues that the community is unhappy with for years, that you get this evasive answers about, ala "we are aware of that problem, but have no immediate plans to work on any solution for the forseable future", in one case claiming that nothing would change for years.
Yeah, BHVR did some big and good changes in the last year, I will give them that, but overall the pace is SO glacial slow and they so very often seem tone deaf to whats really going on and don't seem to understand their game and the issues with it at all.
My favorite solution: give your Fogwhisperers one of the PTBs of the year. Work with them on some of the problems of the game or some crazy ideas and just realize them for a PTB and see how it works. Just imagine the buzz this would create and how much RAW data you would get from this. It could be such a fun event that people look forward to, and I bet that they would come up with at least one idea that improves the game significantly and that would stick after this PTB. Sometimes its okay to just go by gut feeling, roll with the punches and try something thats not backed up by three layers of big data. And you can always admit that this or that was a mistake and roll it back. Someone will always be unhappy with a roleback, but most players would prefare REGULAR and TIMELY changes even if they are rocky and rough, to waiting years and years and years for a solution that leaves everyone underwhelmed and disappointed in the end.
-
@OrangeBear said:
Yes, since MMR change generators feel too fast.
My prediction is that in the next mid chapter they are going to make Grim Embrace meta.
It's the only gen perk getting an update, and it has the popular 4 token first hook system. So it encourages you to not tunnel for a reward. Problem is reward has always been too low. Also obsession aura reveal wouldn't have an effect if the 4th survivor you hook is the obsession.
So i am guessing they will increase the duration to either 80, 90 or 120. Then make it reveal all survivor auras.
To make Grim Embrace worthwhile, it would have to need some big, gamechanging effect, you know how the game comes to a jarring halt once you get your third stack of Devour Hope? Something like this.
Imagine if Grim Embrace had this effect: "upon hooking the forth unique survivor The Entity protects all gens from being progresses for 60s. During this time all survivors are exposed and the killer sees all survivors aura for 5s". It would be panic mode and a complete shift of gears for this one minute and would allow for some hilarious comback situations, where the killer desperately tries to down that elusive forth survivor in time.
But I actually don't have any high hopes for the rework to be anything in this ball park.
-
I think at this point BHVR should just show the bar filling up to everyone, team mates and killer included. We all need to know how this mechanic works and what it does. As the killer, I am always sorta afraid to return to the hook, because I don't want to let a survivor unhook themselves, while I also have had situations in which I purposefully facecamped a survivor to let them unhook when I knew that the other survivor went into hiding. Killing themselves purposefully on hook at this point is one thing, but I want to know if they could. And with survivors its even more frustrating, not seeing whats going on and if you are doing something wrong.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611555#Comment_3611555
I've not heard people in large numbers complaining that a hook requirement for pop and pain res isn't 'earning' the perk. (Usually it was that the perk is getting too much value)
Not 'earning' your perk was during the gen kick meta, where call of brine, Eruption, and overcharge had the 'cost' of kicking a gen, could literally be applied to every gen on the map at once without ever getting into chase, and the cooldown was basically non-existent. Even with blast mine, a meme perk, the devs seemed to understand that having a condition up front before you could even use or apply the perk at all was a good thing.
I still mourn my old blastmine days, where you got it refunded when its timer ran out, but today with the extra long timer, thats kinda ok. The interrim period where you just had a short uptime though before it fizzled out of existence was very painful and sad.
-
@jesterkind said:
I couldn't agree more, there are hardcore diminishing returns with three or four gen defence perks stacked in the same build. If you're doing well enough to get value out of all that, you don't need them, and if you aren't you'd be better served with a more balanced build.
If you want to prioritise gen defence, you'd still want at least one perk for info and at least one perk for chase, but ideally you'd be crafting a build that works with itself in terms of synergy. Bring, say, Pop if you want, but maybe consider other gen kick perks to pair with it like Nowhere to Hide or even something like Trail of Torment if you want to get fancy. Hell, I've gotten a ton of value out of running Furtive Chase/Nemesis/BBQ/Lethal on the right killers, and there's no slowdown in that build at all.
Info perks are nigh essential, no matter what. All the gen regression in the world won't help you if you're stumbling around blindly and taking too long in chase, we're fully out of the meta where you can stall the game without getting downs at this point. Four gen defence perks is a handicap at worst, redundant at best.
The current state of potential perk variety is really healthy at the moment. It just requires people to choose to use the plethora of good options available to them, and a lot of players just aren't doing that.
You expressed my experience better then I could. I mostly play by the creed "aggression is my gen regression" and my most used build is Pyramid Head with Lethal/IamAllEars and any variety of NowhereToHide, UW, Friends, NWO or even Blood Warden when I feel cheeky or just one POP or PainRes. The gameplan is to get into the survivors hair ASAP and never stop harassing them, idealy having a 80% chase uptime and constantly chasing and hooking someone.
But this build heavily hinges on the first chase: if I somehow ran into the 4k hour survivor, then it doesn't look so good. And good SWFs groups who just slam gens are always a tough cookie and I lose more against them as not, but overall this playstyle is more fun to me then endlessly stalling the game.
-
One fun interaction could be this: every 90s or so he can target a window or dropped pallet and press secondary power, to let the vault location be swarmed by zombies. Not actual zombies, but like in the games hand are coming out of it or around the corners and any survivor can only slow vault it and get infected while doing so. One of the Iri add-ons could also damage healthy survivors. Maybe already infected survivors get hindered for a short while after vaulting a zombie vault. This would give him the "Zombie overlord" vibes, without putting too much strain on the game engine and CPU.
-
DBD seriously need some competition. Without that there is no inherent drive to try to polish this rough gem to jewel quality. Every minute change right now has to jump through so many hoops and pass so many "but out data suggest otherwise"-checks and probably meeting after meeting after meeting, that everything happens at a glacial pace. Sometimes its ok to just do something on gut feeling and later reroll it, if it turns out to be a bad decision. Or do something like weekly PTB with just smol changed.
Or, hear me out: do a Fog Whisperer council and let the peeps who made playing this game a career work with you guys on a half annualy PTB with some changes that they and their community work out and then just see how things play out. Imagine how this would transform this community and let it work together and how many awesome ideas we could try it that would be deemed "too risky and not backed up by any data" by BHVR themselves. This Fog Whisperer PTB could be an event in itself that people look forward to and would 1000000% kick the games evolution into hyperdrive.
But instead we get this "saver then save - no risks involved" MMA and roadmap that legit threw this community into its worst depression and even alienated the most stoud of supporters and Fog Whisperers. Really BHVR, PLEASE trust your fans a little bit. We would welcome some risky and sweeping changed, even if they sometimes missed the mark, compared to this depressing, glacial pace. Don't promise us something "some years in the future", give us tangible changes NOW and roll back what turned out to be a bit overtuned. More of us will roll with the punches and try to help you then try to eat your faces.
-
They could do something like Vermintide is doing: each week give us a new mutator that changed the game in a more or less significant manner and award everyone who completes like 5 games with the mutator 300k BP. Afterwards your sides incentive counter for the mutator games will always be +50%, so peeps can farm it if they want, but it will never be balanced in any way.
-
@ButterFlee13 said:
oh, look at these people comments, this is a troll post, history of post 3, come on! hahahah
Look at the OP name hahaha.
and people take his troll comment seriously.
stroking people anger is fun not gonna lie! reading these comments ahahah!
OP might have been a troll, but this sparked some valid points and discussions along the line ... amazing! A forum, where people exchange ideas and different point of views.
-
@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610532#Comment_3610532
I would be so disappointed and lose all hope in DBD's decision-making if that ever becomes true...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610525#Comment_3610525
You know I would be watching as always.🍺
I really should be streaming again. There was so much work to do, that I didnt feel like it, but yeah! I will stream today :) And I hope that I will never have to eat that mouse and keyboard :D Or some carolina reaper or something like that, to make it a bit more reasonable.
-
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610317#Comment_3610317
Like i said, we had those situations already before multible times. One starts, a few are going to join, many will follow and BHVR will react.
I will eat my mouse and keyboard live on stream, and you can quote me on that, if BHVR actually nerfs SB and Lithe, but especially in the light of the current meta and their "unbearable pressure" on the killers population.
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610133#Comment_3610133
You don't maybe but more killers will look excuses for why they can't 4K. And it's not hard to guess that: All blame will go to Lithe/SB or Distortion or WoO.
Probably they will make WoO nerfed next.
I will be happy to be wrong tho.
The "SB is actually way stronger then DH and you will curse the day it got nerfed!!!1"-apocalypse has been teasered so often by now, that I can't wait to see it; it must be some hellscape to percieve and I don't know if I am ready for it, but bring it on!
WoO is complained a lot about, thats right, but not because it is too strong on itself, but because it leads to extremely boring and uninteractive gameplay: "beeline to the next yellow blob on screen, pre-drop it, beeline to the next yellow blob on screen, rinse, repeat", while the killer player can only run after said survivor and break pallet after pallet like an automaton or break chase. Not every WoO user plays like this, but those that do reduce to game to a flow chart with no interaction by humans needed, and this braindead playstyle is really exhausting.
Most of us killer players realise pretty well that WoO isn't OP or too strong or even overtuned, but this beeline-predrop playstyle is just the bottom of the barrel play styles. People are suggesting a cooldown after you drop a pallet, so that you can't just turn of your brain completely; it wouldn't prevent anyone from remembering that a pallet was left in that corner over there, but at least they couldn't just go by visials alone; who knows, a CD might actually force newbies to actively remember where pallets are left and develop some gamesense, instead of just follow the bread crumbs? And experienced survivors don't use the perk like this, they just want the info about whats going on around them and which parts of the map have been turned into a dead zone. BUT I understand that this is a touchy subject, especially in the current meta and with both sides feeling that they are targeted by BHVR with the banhammer regularly, so I won't support the "nerf WoO"-movement and wouldn't mind if WoO never changed.
Distortion, likewise, isn't problematic in a big sense, but its rising popularity is mostly punishing those players that it shouldn't target: the killers with a single info/aura reading perk. A killer with 3 aura reading perks and one or two aura reading add-ons can burn through the full stack of Distortion with just flexing once, but a killer who might run BBQ or Nowhere to Hide as part of a balanced loadout will be playing with only 3 perks, as that one aura reading perk will be absolutely gutted by Distortion. Add to this that Distortion never pauses regeneration, even in chase, something thats absolutely unique about all the other perks that regenerate while inside the killers terror radius, and you got a very torn and scicophrenic perk that fights and punishes the wrong demographic.
So this is all more nuanced then just "OMG I couldn't 4K two matches in a row, please nerf WoO and Distortion ASAP!!!!11". BUT I also think that nerfing and nerfing and nerfing your favorite toys one after the other is the wrong way to tackle stuff. I still think that BHVR should adopt the LOL moba formula: take the 5 most played options for both sides and nerf them numerically, likewise buff the 5 least played options and rinse and repeat every month, while making the newly buffed or nerfed perks immune to changes in the next month. This way you would have a living and evolving meta with players constantly trying out new perks, losing old favorites, while discovering new ones that just became viable.
-
@adsads123123123123 said:
If all survivors are slugged and no one has recovery perks, why do survivors prefer hiding and bleeding out rather than just going afk so crows appear for the killer to find them? They're dead either way. Letting the killer hook them just saves them time and effort.
Spite and an animu-ish "I will never give up and surrender. HUUUWWWAAAAHHAHAAHAH!" 12-years-edgyness for four minutes, but without a super sayajin effect at the end.
-
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609976#Comment_3609976
The year is 20xx. The last 4 survivor players are choosing between a 105% for 2 seconds sprint burst and a 110% for 1.5 seconds lithe. the 8 required generators take 10 minutes each. toolboxes can reduce this by a maximum of 3 seconds with ideal addons. the killer meta includes a perk that permanently exposes all survivors and shows their auras. somewhere, a killer player is calling the game survivor sided because the survivors finished a whole generator before getting the 4k.
Oof, thats rough. Someone, please make this a short animation spoof of "A Christmas Carol" with Trapper as the MC. "A Very Foggy Christmas". He then wakes up in his bed in the cowshed, drenched in blood and unhooks a Dwight next match, who had SB away.
-
@TheycallmeLix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400330/sprint-burst-and-lithe-are-everywhere
Killer mains wanted Dead Hard to be nerfed, and now they complain about Lithe and Sprint Burst 😂 You guys had it coming, cuz me and my close friends also said that this would happen when Dead Hard was nerfed
No, not "killer mains", "some very few killer mains". Most of us couldn't care less about SB and Lithe being the main exhaustion perks, their very nature will never allow them to be as gamebreaking and soulcrushing as DH and MFT were. So go ahead, my lovely survivors, and SB and Lithe away at your hearts content. Sometimes you will get away, sometimes I will catch you, but now its a fair game.
-
Who cares? Lithe and Sprint Burst usually frontload all their power and you can decide, right at the start of the chase, if its worth pursuing this survivor or to go after someone else. DH and MFT were disgusting, due to their soul crushing nature, dangling the price right in front of your nose, but snatching it away time and time again, letting you die a little bit inside each and every time you got "outplayed" by them.
Yes, I sometimes roll my eyes when a survivor SB away from a gen, right when I approach or when they vault back over a dropped pallet and zoom off, but thats just "their power". Exhaustion perks are essentially the survivors main power and nearly everyone will be running one. And as far as exhaustion perks go, SB and Lithe are about as basic and baseline as they get. Just leave this perks be, least us killer mains will be accused of moving the goal post and going after "the next best thing after you murdered DH and MFT!!!1" or "survivors are not allowed to have strong perks :V".
SB and Lithe are pretty strong in the right hands, but not gamebreaking or soulcrushing or suffacoting. They got way around them, counterplay or you just deal with them and soldier on. My favorite SB users are those that walk in front of you, baiting an attack and zooming off just before you could hit them. If you never swing, they lose massive distance by letting you getting that close and its often pretty easy to catch up to them afterwards.
-
And don't try Chucky, either. One of the main parts of his kit is that he is smol and stealthy and easily confuses survivors and wins mind games ... both are impossible vs bots and at certain loops you can't brute force it with 100%, either.
At least in the custom matches we should get a couple of options to influence big behaviour. I want a "never touches gens" option, so that I can roam and explore be nPs to my hearts content.
-
@KidDope25 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609366#Comment_3609366
Everyone is sweating extra hard for some reason and I have no idea why. It’s like what’s the point? And I say this as someone who has waaaay too many hours and plays both sides
It's always the most puzzling aspect of this events: peeps could just take a step back and just enjoy a silly event and get into finny situations, not taking the gam too serious for once ... but instead a sizable part of the community will sweat EXTRA hard and show the other side how awesome they are, whole finding all possible ways yo weaponize the events assets to their fullest.
-
@appleas said:
Because the meta recently was to not heal and slam gens using resilience with Adrenaline popping at the end. Thana is to incentivize healing
I just wanted to write this, but you beat me to it.
-
@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607546#Comment_3607546
The devs may never live down having all those free Epic Store accounts out there.
Thats the Spirit that will haunt them for all eternity and even from beyond the grave.