Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@gatsby said:
An unnatural tingle warns you of impending doom.
Whenever the Killer is Undetectable or you are afflicted with the Oblivious Status Effect, you will retain the ability to hear the Killer's Terror Radius.
Whenever the Killer is within 16 metres of your location, your action speed in Repairing, Healing, Sabotaging, Unhooking, Cleansing, Blessing, Opening, and Unlocking increases by 15/20/25%.
"There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen.." — Sassy, The Lost Tapes
Wow. While I can understand the sentiment that you mourn your favorite perk of the past, this is too strong for sure. This would utterly demolish any killer with stealth and rob them of their power. A killer without a power is just an M1 slasher and thats not very fun to play. MAYBE it could give you an indicator when the killer is approaching your direction while you are repairing the gen and not looking in that direction, but you could see them. This would be very niche, but also be in the spirit of the perks description, but please leave stealth killers alone, they already suffer a lot by callouts and discord, they don't need a perk that invalidates their whole gameplan back in the game.
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I don't know, I tried a build with oppression and only came to the limit of a single gen that was smack in the middle of the map, where everyone wanted to have a piece of it. Jolt/Surge seems to be the other perk that could you make occasionally hit the 8 regression limit, besides that its very, very rare to do so during normal gameplay. And even in a legit 3 geb situation you first have to chew through the 5% gen-tap limiter. From my survivor perspective I have never seen it going off during a game, yet, and as the killer, I only had to deal with it twice, maybe trice.
Its not the most elegant solution, but I recon that it works much better then the anti face camping. And I ADORE that survivors can't freely gentap during a chase anymore, I hated that so much and I gladly take the 8 regression limit for that. Its a give and take and you can't have the cake and eat it, too.
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@ScioNex said:
my point of view on the subject as a person with over 8500 hours in dbd as experienced player, its simple, the game is very balanced right now for both sides, the game is not survivor sided and not killer sided on the highest level.
while the stats shows that killers are stronger than 4men teams overall as evidence that debunk your claims.
you either met people which are better than you, or some cheaters, there is no reason to nerf survivors any more at this point, nerfing survivors any more would def make the game awful for them and since they barely survive now with gen perks says a lot.
i play on top mmr and i win most of my games and could win all of my games if i just play blight/billy/nurse. it says a lot about the power role. u have killers with hundreds of winstreaks, there is no such a thing survivor sided game in dbd, currently the game is balanced in my opinion, nobody give credit to behavior for the balance, people wanted balance and got it, even tho i think the S tier killers needs a light nerf since they are overkill. the S tiers currently are billy/nurse/blight. i mainly play billy thats why i claim it. but u cannot nerf nurse without a rework since she have low stats which are still good since no killer have bad stats anyway.
4men on coms = Killers, No Bias.
One of the most levelheaded and measured posts here in recent history. I see that you are a new one, please stay and enrich the conversations here :) Take a cookie and sit by the campfire.
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4 man SWF are not always god tier, but those god tier teams that utterly destroy you without giving you any chance to breath or regain your composure are 95% all 4 man SWFs.
And thats why I think that the game would only benefit if we coudl see who was in a SWF AFTER the game. Yes, killers could chalk off their big L to the opposition having "an unfair advantage" for being on coms and using callouts, but it would also show killers that a LOT of their resounding wins and "lucky turnarounds" were actually SWFs of all colors, who took extreme risks, justs because they were playing with their friends and wanted to get everyone out, if they died trying be damned. Thats exactly how me and my SWF friends play, ie we play very risky to get everyone out and if we all die, we laugh it off, but cherish the moments when a daring escape does succeed even more.
Also killers would be surprised how many of the potatoes they play are in SWFs, showing who was in a team with whom would help to defuse the stigma of "SWFs destroying the game" a lot.
Not saying that highly coordinated SWFs aren't problematic and can make feeling playing killer extremely aweful and disgusting. The killer buffs of the recent month have helped a lot to pull that sting out of our flesh, but its still hurting to get utterly destroyed by a SWF and you now seeing what you could have done better. If a SWF sticks to gens and communicate your position, it just feels like fighing an endless swarm that pulls away from your front and always stings at your back.
People also rightfully claim that it ain't wise to punish people for playing with their friends, as thats the most enjoyable part of playing survivor. I have one solution that is a very slight nerf to casual SWFs, a sizable nerf to the ugly ones and non at all to soloQ, could you beliefe that?
Its pretty easy: just don't allow duplicate perks in a SWF and thats it. The casual SWFs would have to coordinate a little bit with their load outs, but in my games we mostly have our own playstyles and very little overlap; what little overlap there is could be ironed out in 5min. But those SWFs that feel like a rolling tide with 4 DH, 4 MFT (back in the days), 3 UB, 4 Sabotage or even 4 Head On with a Dead Dog map offering ... all this would be severely neutered. Of course players would eventually figure out effective ways to utilize four different loadouts, but at least you wouldn't have this "killer as the survivors plaything" playstyle.
The beauty with this mechanic would be, that it would only restrict the builds of players in a SWF, so a soloQ survivor could always pick any perk they want, and 4 soloQ survivors could indeed run 4 DH and 4 UB, as they can't coordinate in that way. But in the end, the most important thing is to show who played with whom in the post game chat, so that we can have an honest conversation about how often the seal team 6 death squads happen .... and how often us killers demolish a full team of gamers who just wanted to hang out with each other and chat while they knocked down a couple gens.
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As a pallet cleanser, I offer you my humble Pyramid Head stacks. I am just 35, because I feel obliged to get every character I own to P6, so I don't just pump every single blood point into him, but its slow, honest work and I enjoy it.
As a true Pyramid Head main I am never changing my add-ons and use just two, so the rest is collecting dust.
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I personally believe that @GeneralV as the sole remaining Freddy main is just that cracked, that he singlehandedly skewed that kill rates. Way to go to the top 3!
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651997#Comment_3651997
Agree to disagree. Sounds like skill issue tbh.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3652018#Comment_3652018
That is the issue. Even tho bringen the best gen rush build and toolboxes, this still wont compensate for the slowdown, DMS & GE provides for killer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651993#Comment_3651993
The perk should not automatically win the game, but what it provides is a lot, much more then other killer perks at the moment. If for whatever reason killers cant transform slowdown into pressure, then this is not an issue with the perk, very clearly.
That's true, a strong perk shouldn't automatically win you the game, which is ny point. The gen block of Grim Embrace is useless, if you can't capitalise on it, and that's directly linked to the survivors in question behaviour. If they lay low and hide efficiently and effectively, it comes down to a game of luck (and a little bit of skill and experience) to find anyone, unless you want to camp out that last survivor you put on he hook and only have to defend then for 15s beyond the 45 Grim Embrace timer. You can do that, but it's not very fun for anyone, killer included.
Which is why I love making room for Spies in the Shadow, my guilty pleasure info perk of choice that literally flies under the radar of most players and gets a bad rep. Its like having eyes in the back of your head and helps immensely when survivors lay low and play super stealthy, just barely out of sight.
BTW it's my time playing as a survivor that thought me how often the killer is right on top of a sneaky survivor bit just barely miss them, it's part of the games design with 1st vs 3rd person POV and all that. Much hot air about nothing, but what I wanna say is this:
Tl,dr Grim Embraces power is directly linked to the killers ability to pressure survivors during its uptime, so try to dedicate one slot to perks that help in that regard.
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Lot of true words spoken here, fr9m a person who actually has passion for the game.
There was one such instance that gave me a reality check and ground my excite train to a grinding halt: when Alien chapter was released and I was pumped, someone on the forums said: "LOL I can't wait to get facecamped by the Alien or have the Alien looped and tea-bagged by a cheeky Nea with a flashlight."
Whatever cinematic scenes went through my head at that time instantly died, and yeah, that's dbd for you. The gameplay loop can be fun, but these days it's only fun if the players somehow try to look out for each other.
I had a game where I absolutely dominated as Billy the other night, and when I cornered the same survivor at 4 gens for the third time, I nodded at them ,spun and sprinted away, downing someone else.
I then tried to get 8 hooks before killing anyone and got a 3K with a gifted hatch. Still, the survivors claimed to have fun in the post game chat. I really tried to curb my toxicity of late and take survivor experience into account. Of course, this was an extreme example, because most games you can't effort to give survivors that much of leeway and still come up on top. But if I had just stomped that game and got a 4K at 4 gens, the experience would have been that much more crushing and bitter for the survivors.
Most games aren't a back and forth and on the edge, most favor one side rather early and put the other in the worst situation. And its on us as the playerbase if we capitalise on that and just stump down and ridicule the losing side, or they to have some fun for everyone. Fact is, the games basic loop doesn't take fun into account, only success and efficiency.
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Grim Embrace really profits from some detection perks, but it can't be Nowhere to Hide, as you can't kick blocked gens.
Slowdown is meaningless if you can't transform it into pressure. I have entire Grim Embrace lol 4s run out without me being able to find a survivor and the hook long cold when I returned to it (didn't want to camp). This way it just wasted everyone's time, as no one could progress the game ... well, not true, the survivors did heal, so they came better out of the forced break then they entered it, e en though they couldn't work on gens.
This makes Grim Embrace much much healthier than Eruption during its haydas
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@Xendritch said:
I wanna know what killers were "designed" to camp and tunnel.
It seems like such a nonsense claim when most killers can't use their power around hooked survivors.
Either Bubba and Pyramid Head (both old and oldish) or he means Knight "camping with a guard", a common misconception by the uninformed who don't know that any guard will despawn if you touch a hooked survivor. I really guess its Knight, because he is a rather recent addition.
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@Nebula said:
It’s PTSD from the past. I think part of it as well is that Skull Merchant typically attracts a certain kind of player that a lot of people dislike playing against.
This. Must presume still bear the mental scars of her first iteration and must sunwise can't let go of the past and have it ingrained in their head: you play SM = you barely qualify as human. I was literally told so several times when playing her, or variations there of ("imagine being such a douche and subjecting others to play against SM in 2024").
And just has a different kind of slowdown in that she deals a first health state to random survivors around the map, but nearly never can she directly capitalise on that. Occasionally she'll run into a hurt survivor, sometimes survivors will spend time healing, other times the drones just activate their Resilience perk and further the survivors gameplan.
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@Astel said:
May I ask who is Sluzzy
A legendary querulous person and troublemaker of this forum, with unabashed survivors bias, especially during the times when survivors were the undisputed power role.
No one rant knew if Sluzzy was real or trolling, but everyone enjoyed the madness. But eventually Sluzzy overstepped their bounds time and time again and had to retire.
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And it's not stronger then a well placed pop or PainRes, as always the unrestricted comboing of this effects causes some issues.
I think the best way would be to introduce a couple of new perk classes (Gen regression, Gen repair, maybe Aura reading if it must be done) and limit builds to two perks per class. Maybe perks like Lethal Pursuer could raise the limit by plus 1 or don't count themselves, because of their supportive nature.
Unrestrained builds has been a staple in DBD for many years but it's causing issues because of the vast number of perks, killers and combinations. Like when Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of Nurse, imagine if Nurse just couldn't equip it etc.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650972#Comment_3650972
My read of the OP's message is more of "Don't blindly follow the stats, ask the 'why'". While the kill rates may be accurately in the 60% range, how many of those kills/escapes were because the Killer let the Survivors go/Survivors refused to leave and died to endgame collapse, and does the system account for that? (rhetorical)
Also with DCs not being counted towards the stats, that creates another mismatch of player experience and data. The 3 remaining Survivor players have to finish playing out the doomed match, and hate every moment of it. When we are told "DCs aren't tracked" along these other (varying levels of) common player experiences, we instead interpret the message as something like "LOL sucks to be you, because that isn't real". Having a 'with' and 'without' for something like DCs helps that significantly more.
DCs are also a clear player experience message (in the current system). If someone is willing to soak an escalating penalty and still play, that means that particular experience was so bad and the game at large isn't at fault. If they stop playing after the DC though, they might just be going to bed. If Joe-Schmoe DCs against every Nurse, they are sending player feedback that Nurse is the problem, not the game. If we are told DCs aren't tracked, we are told (some level of) player feedback is ignored.
When someone says "I feel like the 'true' escape rate is 20-35% because I include when the Killer farms us (2-hook release) and matches with DCs", the 'why' is clearly stated. When there is such an extreme mismatch of player experience and data (like OP's 'true' 26% escape rate), it lowers faith in the game's integrity. Player experience shouldn't be this far divorced from the data, or that causes people to believe the dev team to be out of touch. The targeted 60/40 feels much different for the 3 Survivors with a DC, as they can't just toss their experience to the wind, unless there is a system implemented to allow for unpunished DCs in matches where a DC already happened. In other words, data collection should as closely match player experience as possible. (So either count DCs, or let us quit after someone else does please.)
Side tangent, feel free to ignore, its more for the thread in general
{
I have seen 3 major DCs: Killer recognition, tilt-ragequit, and stop wasting my time. Killer recognition is simple, see the Nurse example above. Tilt-ragequit and stop wasting my time both have some overlap though. A turbo-tunnel off hook is a bit of both for example, as the Killer clearly didn't want the Survivor to play the game, so they go out on their own terms. An exclusive tilt-ragequit is failing a vault or mindgame or stun mid-chase. An exclusive stop wasting my time is bleeding out/slugging for the 4k.
Before MMR, I near exclusively 2-hook tango'd, or hooked each Survivor twice then let them go. I quit the game (in the hopes that it will get better in the future), but if I return, I will refuse to kill Survivors as long as MMR is as sweaty as it still is at this point. If I return, I will be 'stacking the deck' in terms of kill rates, where the Killer wins in reality, but the Survivors win on paper. If everyone learns this is the only way to have fun, then no stats will have meaning, and MMR will fail at its intended goal.
Similarly Ghostface is low in kill rates, but the 'why' is likely people play him as an M1 Killer instead of a macro 99 stalk all players style. (At least that's how I had significantly above average kill rates with him as my main.) If players start to play Ghosty 'right', would his kill rates raise significantly? Probably not, because too many newer players will still think "Ah cool Ghostface", and still play him as an M1 Killer.
}
I am not refering to your entire post (though you are making quite some good points there) as I need to go to bed. Just one quick food for thought morsel of my mind:
"The targeted 60/40 feels much different for the 3 Survivors with a DC, as they can't just toss their experience to the wind, unless there is a system implemented to allow for unpunished DCs in matches where a DC already happened. In other words, data collection should as closely match player experience as possible. (So either count DCs, or let us quit after someone else does please.)"
This would also imply that the 60% kill rate that gives killers a bit more success doesn't count this very loopsided games with one survivor DCing at the first opportunity as a win. Considering that this game still raises the killers MMR, how many toxic-death-squads will be send against the general killer population, to even out the whole affair so that the killrate eventually comes to a "true" 60/40 split?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650945#Comment_3650945
Thank you, edited it.
Only saw it now. ^_-
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650918#Comment_3650918
"Better than old DH"
Yeah, gonna be an ######### on this one and shut everything down here. That's such a ludicrous horrible take that I am genuinely uninterested in furthering this discussion with someone who believes that.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650935#Comment_3650935
I believe @Akumakaji meant better as in "better to play against", not "stronger".
You do you bro, but for real, just like GeneralV said it, just literal the next 5 words explained that I didn't mean it like you took it. Whatever, happy gaming :)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650229#Comment_3650229
Because perks that are dependent on the Killer's ping are bad.
Not only do you need skill to know the timing.
Not only do you need to make a read.
Not only do you need to be positioned correctly in a loop.
You also need the Killer to have good ping.
This has been claimed time and time again, yet so many survivors managed to turn the 6.1 DH into an absolute menace that made playing killer again feel like a chore. It was BETTER then old DH for sure, but only because I eventually learned to predict and mindgame it, but that didn't counter the untold lose/lose situations that this "ping dependant" perk put me in at pallets.
God, how I hated that DH had zero "pallet drop cooldown" afterwards, there were loads and loads and again LOADS of times, were I correctly predicted the DH at a pallet and held my swing, yet was still hit in the head with the pallet afterwards, because I was 2 frames too slow.
And DH can still do all of this today, its just not as obiquitous anymore and severely limited in uptime, which is why so many survivor ditched it. I still die a bit inside every time I am hit by DH,though, but I guess thats just ptsd of the olden times.
On a sidenote: I find it very telling, that not a single of the anti-tunneling perks is in the top 10, even though tunneling has been the TOP complaint of the survivor player base. So it still seems to be a tough call for many to put their survival above the need to "stick it to the killer" and that they value offense more then defense. Thats a choice in itself, and while I think that doing something against tunneling would help the game a lot to become more fun, its still a choice that many make themselves: stay meta slaves instead of losing one of their valued meta perks for survivabilty.
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@aerie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650886#Comment_3650886
do not double the amount of pips you need. 10 pips for iri 1 ALONE? dear god xD
i think i'd prefer a system that depips me than that grind....
The thing is, that by doubling the pips, but doing away with de-pipping, you would need around 250 good or ok games (games that gave you one pip, obviously less if you got a double pip) during a month. Thats a lot, but still manageable and a sort of hard cap. Also, without de-pipping, the value of every single game would go down, and thus a lot of the sweat.
I know for a fact that in critical situations, it nearly broke my heart when an especially cute survivor gave up when the game was stacked against them and I REALLY wanted to give them hatch, but I was at 4 of 5 pips and I knew that I would miss out on the sacrifice emblem if I let them get away, so 9/10 times I killed that survivor with a heavy heart.
In nearly all cases of the 1/10 where I let them get away I was rewarded with a couple of extremely toxic and/or strong murder/death-squads that effortlessly reduced my pip count from 4 to zero in the span of 5 or 6 games. That felt really aweful and made me resent the de-pipping system with an absolute vengeance. I can somewhat understand how some people defend the system with something like "its the only thing that makes you play and give it the games a little sense of impact", but I also strongly believe that we would curb down the toxicity and sweat considerably if all games were safety-pip games and everyone could play anyway they liked.
In my hardcore DBD days I sweat like mad in order to reach Iri1, just so that I could play anyway I liked afterwards, and I would so love if I could play anyway I liked EVERY game, deciding on a whim if I want to become friends with a survivor and meme around or if I want to be a sweatlord, and don't have that decision be influenced on my amound of pips and the prospect of losing them all to a slew of bad games.
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Eruption plus Overbrine kick meta. I was finally free to interact with the survivors at my leisure and meme with them if I wanted or kill them off if I felt like it, finally living the power fantasy that was the killers role by birthright.
Lol, just kidding. I only used that combo for about a day and relised how broken it was and that it would get inevitably nerfed and played at least without Eruption.
I honestly think that 6.1 was the most interesting time that I personally played at. It was the first time that as big a rumble as this went through DBD, before I felt like playing killer was at its lowest, with many games feeling like a masochistic undertaking, me staring at the screen with dead-eyed acceptance at the abuse I was suffering at the survivors hand, without any tools to strike back at them and any DH was defended with a "lol, relax, its just a perk. Git gud."
6.1 then pulled the whool from everyones eyes and revealed how much the survivor community had come to rely on second chance perks. The first day was like utter chaos, with survivors being unable to cope with the loss of DH and some of the other tremors. It honestly felt like an "all you can kill buffet", with survivors just running around headless, unable to counter anything and I had games were it seemed that no one dared to touch a generater, lest it exploded or something.
It took nearly 1 1/2 days before the dust settled and some survivors regained their composure, touched gens again and just tried to play. It was a wild time of exploration and wonder, the meta was crushed, so there was no meta, so everyone played whatever they liked and tried out perks that had sad in their discard bin for literal years. You saw all kinds of exhaustion perks, all kinds of builds, all kinds of new and wild and different playstyles. And it was a time of brave duels of skill and raw expression of the desire to surviv/kill. It also was a time of 10min killer queues, but that was okay.
That all changed, of course, when the Fire Nation attacked, eh I mean, when survivors realised that the new DH was actually much stronger and reliable then the old. Plus everyone woke up to the fact that splitting up was the way to counter the +10s gen repair time and that genie will never go back into its bottle, sadly. But until that, this whole time was such a fun and interesting experience and I really loved and cherished it. I know that 6.1 is seen as controversial by most, but I guess I had a more unique POV on the whole thing, as I didn't try to be as much a douche bag killer as possible and tried to explore new and crazy builds myself.
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@Halloulle said:
thing is, if a killer is afk like that you will depip. If you're at a point where you don't want to depip you do some stuff that will help you pip; cleanse the totems, open chests, hope for a toolbox to sabo a hook, so stuff that gives you points in boldness. Takes about 4-5 minutes.
More evidence that the de-pipping system should be done away with, ASAP. All matches safety-pip unless you DC and double the amount of pips you need. Done.
Reminds me that I should start the 8ths topic about this, until BHVR takes notice :)
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I have to wonder if people aren’t blinded by a hate boner, cause this trend was a thing from the very moment she got her first ‘rework’.
Did people even try to learn how she works? I’m getting the impression very few people cared to. Which is unfair regardless.
This is the main culprit IMHO. People seem to have it ingrained in their minds that playing SM is cheap and unfun and you as the killer player just barely qualify as a human for chosing her for others to verse (numerous players have told me so).
I strongly believe that this is all due to the lingering effect of her old Chessmerchant playstyle and the burning 3-genning. Now she is a stealth/controller hybrid who gets constantly random wounds across the map, which forces survivors occasionally to heal or hack drones (slowdown) or become vulnerable, but it's in the players hands if they want to stay injured, they aren't exposed just like that mid-chase.
I find her surprise Stealth one of the more fun aspects of her kit and notice all the random wounds my drones cause, but 90% of the time it happens somewhere with me not knowing where and thus unable to capitalise on it. My biggest gripe from a gameplay perspective is that information and drone hunting seems to be a big part of her kit when looking from the outside, but ingame the claw traps are so infrequent and short-lived that's its a real coin flip if I can get any info by then at all. Most of the time when I check my scanner there is just void, and this is somewhat sad.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650102#Comment_3650102
Yeah I would imagine games where a survivor DCs is very likely a 3k for most
Probably right, but I also stand by my own obversation: that some bots are way better players then the player that they replace. Also, Chucky has the highest problem versing bots, as he can't mind game them and his poor stats don't allow him to easily brute force the bots behaviour, unless its an utter trash loop. Bots against Chucky are brutal, I tell ya!
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@Dreamnomad said:
I think it is worth noting that 2 swf has a lower survival rate than solo q and has identical survival rates at average and high mmr. Also noteworthy is that 2 player swf is the most commonly played version of swf. It is only at high mmr 4 player swf that the survival rate is substantially higher (and even then below 50%). The only logical conclusion is that SWF is not the problem that the forums would have you believe.
Most duo SWFs are in the thick together and die or live together, will go to great risks to safe each other or often give up when the other dies.
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@TieBreaker said:
I don't know what you people are complaining about. Everything looks great.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K7NPJ7AQO697/spongebob-my-eyes.gif
I would upvote you, if I could find the button. Goddam the glare. Ugh.
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I would also say that I am happy that someone brought him up, as I never experienced the smooth Pyramid Head, only the sluggish one we got today, but then I realised that my plight might not be on topic here, and well, I win with him enough, but the sluggish ways of the punishment of the damned often punish him just as well.
If the survivors only knew that every time I zone them that I most likely wouldn't have hit them in 4 of 5 cases anyway, if they had committed, my whole gameplan with him would be in pieces. Slick and sick cool blindshots are still one of the most satisfying things this game has to offer.
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@Dustin said:
I wish the auto level was slightly faster but also we didn't need to prestige a character once to use it. I really don't see a reason to need to prestige someone first.
That you need to prestige a character to P1 in order to access the auto bloodweb is a bummer EVERY single time I acquire a new character. Really, this is such a needlessly convoluted system, just let people spend their bloodpoints, its still taking its due time, but being forced to do it manually with each new character feels like pure torture.
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@OrangeBear said:
One of my first matches as bubba i got all 4 survivors down with a single chainsaw sweep. They were all together at coldwind harvester for some reason so i won the match in less than 2 mins.
This reminds me of a situation I got with Pyramid Head, pre-basekit BT. I intercepted a survivor who was going for an unhook, gave them a good whack and they still went for the safe. Well, let me tell you, what POTD could do to unprotected, unsafe hook-safes: you took aim, waited till the hooked survivors feet touched the ground, and shot: BOOM, two downed survivors, one shock second, two DCs. Turned the game from intense to "oof, that escalated quickly" in 2s flat.
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The game is really fun with a barebones approach without any perks and just skill.
Most players rely a lot on the terror radius and you can basically get gen grabs with basically every killer, no matter how big and stompy
Most casuals abandon this game mode pretty fast and the callout 4-SWF deathsquads seem all thats left, eager to write their "Lol, GGEZZZZZZZZZZ" as soon as possible
a lot of M1 and subpar killers are suddenly viable and so much fun
this game mode could be really good with some small changes; tunneling is really unfun, but survivors can disapper like smoke just by existing and turning a corner. Maybe we could give survivors some basekit anti tunneling DS or something and give killers some info upon hooking a survivor; not aura reading, but maybe a notification which gen they should check out next, just to point them in the right direction and peel them away from the hook.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648607#Comment_3648607
Slowering solo gens speed and buffing gen speed when working together could help in that problem. I've seen many use corrupt invertion it's great perk to avoid quick 3 gen pop.
I know that Corrupt is a good perk, but I am somewhat hesistant to make room for it in my build. This could be a me problem and I should 100% give it a try, but I often get a quick first down with Lethal Pursuer or even just experience with anticipating survivor spawns, so it could down pretty fast. On the other hand, by that time its main work is already done, ie preventing survivors from jumping on the gens they spawn next to and forcing them to search for gens.
Thinking about it, it might really be a good perk. Thanks for the input and making be consider corrupt, again.
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My Problem with the game from the killers perspective right now is, how absolutely easy and without consequences it is for survivors to split up and tackle gens separately.
When you startle a survivor and they run away early, its a tough choice: chase them for maybe a minute because of the head start and because it's the first chase, ie all resources are still up, or break chase and have them back on the gen the second you turn your back on them. All the while three other gens are getting worked at.
Spreading pressure is easier said rhenium done and depends on survivors getting spooked when you hit them. Seasoned veterans will jump back on gens the second you give them the opportunity, and survivors who prioritise gens before friends are a nightmare for the killer, who put such immense pressure on those poor sods.
I don't really have a solution, but having three gens popping even after a good first chase is freaky disheartening, because it puts the killer in such a bad spot. At this point, with only 2 gens left and 3 healthy survivors, tunneling is often the best solution: it offers the only way how the killer can pressure the survivors and maybe tunneling will lead to one or two other survivors taking protection hits, opening themselves up for retaliation.
A possible solution could be to penalise the repair speed of be first 3 gens, ie so that the right play wouldn't be anymore to split up completely separately, but in two teams of 2. This would lessen the stress on the killer a lot and might actually lead to some more fun games that don't feel like speed running. After 3 gens pop, this debuff would go away and allow survivors unrestricted repair speed on the last gens.
Compensation could come in the form of hard anti tunneling, ie if the killer downs a recently unhooked survivor while at 4 or 5 gens, they get both, a free UB and an auto DS, incentivising the killer to spread hooks in the early game. Other techniques could be a revival of the old BBQ BP bonus as a basekit mechanic, but only increasing the multiplier while all 4 survivors are alive.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648372#Comment_3648372
Funny thing is i rarely play blight anymore. More of a singularity player now.
Not saying that you are lying, but I am pretty sure that I am the last Singularity player left.
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@I_Tunnel said:
A Trapper match:
- Match starts.
- Picked up a trap. Placed it at Shack Window.
- Picked up a trap. Placed at Shack Pallet. As I was walking away; It caught someone.
- Hit them. Reset trap. Carried to Basement.
- While they were screaming from being hooked; Pallet trap got someone else.
- Hit them, reset trap, carried to Basement.
- Even before I had them hooked; Someone got caught by the Shack Window.
- Hit them. Reset trap. Carry to Basement.
- Final player comes down the stairs. Sees me. Runs, vaults Shack Window; Caught by trap.
It was the only time I had all 4 Survivors on basement hooks all at the same time. 😂
Match took maybe 3-5 minutes?
Lolol. This sound like such a stupid, fun game. I mean, at some point the last survivor must have thought "ahhh f* it" and just went for it.
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A Pig match against a callout 4-man-SWF. The first gen was gone in 20s into the match due to 4 BNP, before I could even get my bearing, then they swarmed the map, one kept me occupied while the others slammed their gens. This was on the (non-temple) Yamaoka map, so not particularly survivor sided, but actually one of the balanced maps. The whole match was sub 4min. A game like this happend only ONCE in my 2600h, but dayum, was that a burn.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647824#Comment_3647824
Good thing that I can tell you that you will not go against as many competitive SWF as you think you are. You are probably going against no competitive SWF at all. Only because you lose a game does not mean your opponents were a bunch of comp-players.
Probably true; thats why I am a big proponent of clearly showing in the post-game screen, who was in a SWF with whom, this would be more likely a big eye opener to many killers, then just confirming their bias that every loss was due to a coordinated SWF; probably more 4K and surprise turn-around-games were due to SWF-altruism for their, well, friends.
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OPs rant is a bit over the top, but the basic premise is right, ie that "coordinated" SWFs are a real pain in the but and no fun to play against.
My solution would be a very slight nerf to regular SWFs who just play with their friends, no nerf to soloQ, but a big wrench for the death squads.Its rather simple: when in a SWF you can't equip muliple instances of the same perk. Thats it. For regular SWFs this would be more of a nusiance, but when I play with my friends we have very little overlap, as we all have different playstyles. The problem are the coordinated SWFs with 4xDH, 3xUB, 4xAdrenalin or even "Dead Dog map offering and 4x Head On". Its the coordinated specialisation that brings the most pain to my games. Against such a SWF, you can only eat all the dirt they throw your way, as switching targets often offers no respite, as they could be running the exact same build.
SoloQ players who backfill or fill up the roster should be totally exempt from this and could equip whatever they like without their personal choice interfering with any other players. I am also a big proponent of showing all participants after the trial, who was in a SWF with whom. People keep claiming that this would lead to more salty comments and even players writing down SWF names, so that they could dodge them, but that latter fear sounds pretty far-fetched to me. I believe that showing the SWFs after the trial would have a contrary effect: many killers would wake up to the fact, that a lot of their 4Ks were even against SWFs and especially that many missplays and overtly "altruism that killed the whole team" could be attributed to players being in one team together.
While we are at it, could we review the last 5 or 10 matches we played? Its such a bummer that, if I die first but want to see the killers build, I have to spectate the whole match. Would be really nice if I could just review the post-game screen at my laisure sometime later, saving 5-10 datesets per player shouldn't be THAT difficult. This would also help in that instances where I clicked the "next" button too early, and just the instance later I remember, that I wanted to look something up.
Just my two BP.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647021#Comment_3647021
I am not in favor of being carried around the map indefinitely.
Mad Grid Backpacker build wants a word with you. Its fun for the whole family, they say.
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I really dig the general idea, especially with the added tome page. This is some awesome recurring content: give us a silly, unbalanced mutator each week to play around with, run wild and try all kind of stuff, and let the interns submit their mediocre charms and background banners, so that we can grind for something that won't cost much in the way of development, but increases engagement rate and offers something new.
EDIT: I don't expect this level of goodies each time, but it's actually just one item of goodies per class, so it's actually quite the good way to use some of the artists assets that they design all the time, that don't make the cut for the major releases. Everyone wins with such an arrangement and it will eventually lead to players banners not all being the same 3 things.
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640893#Comment_3640893
How exactly is this perk going to help team mates? Saving someone with a locker head on is even more situational and rare then a successful CJ Tech or Head On stun + Escape.
That would mean the perk is completly useless except when you play on coms and manage to die in the right spot
I once had a once in a million Head On play against a Doctor. During a chase I diverted into the basement and hid in the first locker. Then my teammate with whom I was in a Discord call went down. The Doctor of course carried her into the basement and I called out to her "Yo, check this out!" , jumped out of the locker and saved her just before reaching the hook. But that was quite literally Lightning in a bottle.
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Honestly, during the Eruption meta I only tried it out 2 or 3 times and then laid it to rest, focusing on other ways to win, but in hindsight it feels like I dibbed out of an important part of DBD history, the likes people are still talking to this day. I did the right thing back then, but it feels like I missed out on history. This won't be happening again, this time I am all in for it! Wooohaaa!
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636958#Comment_3636958
I'd even go so far as to say it should get a charge for each unhook so it can be used twice per game.
I actually forgot that this wasn't the case, but that it was just one use only.
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@xEa said:
When the DBD forum community has no objection to a survivor perk buff, it is apparent that this perk should get its revert.
BHVR please make us happy again :)
Most killer mains also agree that DS 3s is utter garbage and should be revoked to its 5s original state, to maintain some impact on the game. The only nerf it needed was that it didn't work in the endgame. And I am as killer biased as they come.
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Yeah, the Sadako nerf was such a bummer. If you could lock in 4 or 5 curse stages, that would mean something and could both, raise the stackes and fear level and make Sadako more dangerous without being an utter noob stomper. But 2 curse stages mean litterally nothing, the max you can do with that is 4 stages with two hooking events, and after that the survivor is on death hook, so why bother? This really went from 100 to 0 in an instance and my excitement is at its lowest.
At least Billy will be fun to play and maybe learn, but really, this update leaves Sadako in the dust and let her linger again as one of the lowest picked killers.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636531#Comment_3636531
I think part of the problem here is that the conversation has become a hard binary between "Tunnelling" and "Not Tunnelling", as though the latter is a single strategy the same way that the former is. It does also seem, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, like you're expecting "not tunnelling" to involve the same gameplay, effort, and type of value as tunnelling, which it does not.
Tunnelling is, boiling it down as bluntly as possible, taking a shortcut on overall skill expression to put all of your eggs in the "short chase times" basket. It's making a play that allows you to focus on that one skill, that one aspect of good killer gameplay, and have that be the thing that wins you games over everything else.
If you aren't making that play, though, you're going to be using all of the other skills, so expecting that the chase times must necessarily be shorter is somewhat missing the point. You don't need them to be shorter because you're using everything else at your disposal.
Well, and of course, there is tunneling and there is tunneling. You can do some suplemental or tactical tunneling, that will ferret SWFs out and cause them to take protection hits, thus opening themselves up, when they would otherwise have been sticking to their gens, even if your intention never was to tunnel that player out, yet. Is this also taking a shortcut? Many players, myself included, are under the impression, that a team, that sticks to gens before friends and only goes to safes in the last second and maybe even letting someone slip into hook stage 2, are next to impossible to beat. You just can't generate enough pressure and the second you turn your back, they jump on their gen again. It feels mercilessly from the killers POV, just like tunneling feels for many survivors.
The best natural games are around killers with natural slowdown, like Pinhead, Pig or Sadako, as these games give the survivors a solid, tangible side objective besides slamming gens. Maybe every killer needs their very own objects and side objective? This would be a massive undertaking, but could be a way to go.
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TBF, gen tapping has been brought up as an unfair mechanic time and time again. I don't know about the greater whole, but I really appreciate that survivors can't undo 1.8s of animation with 0.1s while midloop, that was always a source of grief.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636123#Comment_3636123
That makes sense to me but others don't see it that way apparently. They believe that if you need to tunnel to stand a chance you don't deserve that MMR and you're boosted. Supposedly the game is balanced to the point you can go for 10-12 hooks every match.
They also don't think incentives work, only punishments.
Not my words, just what has been expressed to me in the thread.
What would insinuate that MMR is working most of the time, which he have established time and again, it is not. I like winning, so I sweat a lot; when MMR is working this puts me up against a lot very, very good survivors, and against those I doubt that anyone could go for 10-12 hooks, in this cases you NEED to play dirty or to perish and get rediculed "OMG. 2500h and you still lost and got not one kill. Baby killer.", stuff like this always makes me wonder whats wrong with this people, do they always perform at top level without ever having a bad game? But I digress ... when MMR is not working, well then everything goes and the strangest stuff can happen. I usually let one survivor go in that case, if I can idenfity a newby usually them, but until one is dead, even a newby can pressure gens just like everyone else.
I get the feeling that punishments never work, they only harden the sentiments on both sides and make some people extra stubborn. I really think that old school BBQ BP bonus as basekit would help a lot, with the added twist that the multiplier only increases as long as all 4 survivors live, ie once the killer kills off one survivor they are stuck with whatever bonus they got at that point. Just try that out BHVR, its not like you would be losing much, but could gain a lot.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636271#Comment_3636271
This falls into the trap of assuming that tunnelling happens when the killer loses gens too quickly, but it doesn't, it just happens. I've personally had matches where the killer goes hard into tunnelling someone out before a single gen is even done, and that happens much, much more frequently than any game of mine for either side where the killer has a true genrushing "everyone's split up immediately with a toolbox" start.
Addressing genrushing is reigning in uncommon but unbalanced edge cases, but addressing tunnelling would be addressing a problem the game's been struggling with pretty consistently for a long while. It's part of why my initial post here objected to the framing- the two problems just aren't comparable on nearly any level.
I'm not saying tunnelling should be addressed and then it's okay to wait years before toolboxes get nerfed, but that doesn't mean the two must necessarily happen together.
The thing is, the killer can't just shift gears when things turn sour and start tunneling, most games are just at a too high breakneck speed. Its part of the meta: the meta tought killers to tunnel early, to then have maybe a breather during the last section of the match, just as the meta tought survivors to split up and pressure the killer from all fronts. Heck, if so regularly 3 gens pop during the first chase, then there isn't any breathing room for the killer to decide that its now time to tunnel, they either decide early or perish (or play potatoes, in which case it doesn't matter).
Somewhere earlier I proposed an old BBQ like basekit mechanic, to give killers a sort of secondary victory condition, again. I think that this would do wonders to the game. Besides that, I think that gen speeds and tunneling need to be tackled as a whole, if you fix one part without the other, you will severely imbalance the game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Finally someone opens a Thread about this!
You held your breath, waiting for this, right?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636261#Comment_3636261
I'm in favour of addressing the edge cases for early generator speeds, yes. I do think it's a bit of a false equivalence, but it's not as though the generator stuff doesn't need addressing too, so it's fair to mention it.
Personally, I'd just have every survivor spawn grouped up in groups of four or two, and nerf toolboxes. The only real problematic starts are when everyone spawns on a separate generator with a good toolbox, and those two things separately are too strong as well so they should just be addressed individually.
Now, again, I don't think those two things are linked. I think they should both happen but they don't both need to happen at the same time.
On the contrary I think that they are very linked. Killer being so strong and gens taking longer after 6.1 forced survivors to stop dillydallying and play efficiently, meaning that they no longer do gens casually together but split up with everyone doing their own gen. They leads to 3 gens popping first chase and killers feeling that they have to tunnel at 4 gens, to even have a chance of winning.
Everything is connected in a complicated web of conditions and influences.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636244#Comment_3636244
I'm not sure how you lose survivors when you're right on them and hitting them within 10-15 seconds of them being unhooked?
If they could make distance using anti-tunnel perks, yes, you'd be right, but right now they've got at most Off The Record buying them a few more seconds. With OTR, they could maybe break line of sight and pull the tricks you're describing, but only if they're in a favourable area for it, which means... their ability to even attempt to counter tunnelling is random chance re: map position, as I described.
Your description of what the risk should be is accurate. That risk just isn't there because there's only meagre protection against tunnelling in place. It made the most egregious form of tunnelling impossible, but it didn't exactly make tunnelling in general properly risky.
Imagine if, instead, the basekit protection wasn't Endurance, so it can't be used to cleanse OTR before it's elapsed. On top of that, DS is a five second stun, so you're rolling the dice on if you'll get a stun that matters after downing them, which in this scenario took three total hits because OTR couldn't be waited out or cheesed immediately. In this scenario, tunnelling is a risk- you can get that chase finished fast enough to not lose value, but it's not going to be particularly desirable in most situations. That'd address tunnelling (mostly, at least) without harming regular gameplay, which is the ideal situation.
Fair points. But if we make tunneling riskier and prone to failure, I also think that we should make splitting up on the three early gens less efficient. One of the main reason stated by killers why they tunnel is that they feel pressured and backed against the wall so early, ie they finish their first chase and 3 gens pop. If we could make splitting up on the first 3 gens less effective, I wouldn't mind if every tunneled survivor gets an auto 5s DS and free Unbreakable during that early game to incentivice the killer HARD to go for another target and not wasting time.
The way both sides have been forced to play most optimally has lead to the current situation and the breakneck speed we are experiencing.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3635460#Comment_3635460
I agree, that's why we need something that will reward killers for spreading hooks, which will do nothing in tunnel situations.
Also win condition should shift on amount of hooks or something like that.
While I am a stoud opponent of basekit mechanics, as this dilutes the perk variety of the game and even more solidifies the meta, there is one basekit that I propose every time I get the chance for:
(old) BBQ. In the past every killer had BBQ equipped for the blood point bonus, and many survivors hated the aura reading part, but the vast majority didn't realize what good this did for the game. Killers had it equipped for the BP, but every hook showed them opportunities and thus peeled them away from the hook.
So, why not combine the two effects into a basekit incentive for the killer? They get the old +25% bonus BP for each survivor hooked, BUT only as long as all four survivors are still alive. If you tunnel the first survivor out you are stuck with +25% bonus BP etc. Also, upon hooking you see the aura of a single random survivor that hasn't been hooked yet. Once all 4 survivors have been hooked, no more basekit aura reading will be shown, but at that time the killer has chased and hooked every survivor and spread their hooks around. A mechanic like this would again put "hooking every survivor once" back again as a personal quest on many killers agenda, instead of just having kills as their only means of success.