Adjatha
Adjatha
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The ONE change I didn't want to see was "move speed lowered while placing traps." Reducing number of traps and entirely removing the slowdown addons were not unexpected, but slowing way down to use your stupid power feels so BAD on Pyramid Head, Myers, Wraith, Plauge and they've done it here too. That's awful. Wildly over-reaching nerf
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099962#Comment_2099962
Hag already works like that unless you're using rusty shackles or mint rag. Your phantasm faces the survivor, and when you take control of it, you're still facing that direction. Doctor's power also already works like that. It won't interrupt queued fast vaults much like Freddy snares won't.
Hag faces the direction the survivor WAS when the trap was first sprung. Teleportation time means the phantasm does not take into account where the survivor moves, so by the time you appear, the survivor is often LONG gone.
And maybe that's how Doctor's power is SUPPOSED to work, but I don't know how often you play him because it sure doesn't work that way. I can't count how often I zap a guy and a full second later, they're through a window, or over a palette. And besides, you can interrupt vault animations via grabs, I'm not sure why a power entirely based around "can't vault" wouldn't ALSO stop stuff like that. It's super infuriating.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2100004#Comment_2100004
But do you think any killer looks at two queues labelled 'free wins' and 'risk getting bullied' and voluntarily pick the latter?
The only way to fix Swiffering is by buffing killers to bust bully-strats, then massively buffing solo survivors to match their new balance floor.
You may have missed the part where I said: "SWF should be its own mode, with more deadly killers, while solo queue should be the base game, with weaker killers."
Make solo queue killers weaker, make SWF killers stronger. Maybe that's a move speed change. Maybe that's survivors getting more hooks before death in solo queue. Maybe that's killers getting six perks in SWF. I don't know. My point is that solo queue SHOULDN'T be an auto win for killers and SWF SHOULDN'T be a cakewalk for survivors. But while the two are in the same pool, everything has to stay more or less the say while vague overtures toward a parity that will never exist get bandied about and both sides get less and less enamored with the core gameplay loop
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You have 14 seconds to stop somebody from taking apart your hex totem. That is in addition to patrolling generators, chasing survivors, navigating loops, finding hiding survivors, kicking gens/palettes/doors, dealing with stuns, and picking up/hooking survivors. And while you're doing all of those things, any of the four survivors could be making a beeline for your totem and, 14 seconds later, it's gone for good. Despite survivors having plenty of extremely strong perks that function identically to hex totems with potent, once-per-game applications (Unbreakable, Deliverance, Adrenaline, etc), there is nothing killers can do to shut those off or prevent them from being available.
And all that is irrelevant when you consider that survivors can literally spawn next to a hex totem and break it before the killer can even walk all the way over to it.
Hex totems are a joke. They SHOULD be high reward and high risk, but unless you're using one of the 3 really, really good ones, it's high risk for low-to-zero reward. And even the really good ones rely on being in-game for a prolonged period. If your argument is "well, that just means that killers should have to patrol them in addition to doing everything else they have to do during the game," then may I suggest that cleansing a hex totem should work like repairing a generator, and it should take 90 seconds instead of 14?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099993#Comment_2099993
Well, yeah. No Swiffer, no DBD. Solo survivor is a massively frustrating experience and is practically unwinnable at very low and very high ranks.
The game highlights this internally as well though: the survivors need to live now and again in order to make sure they don't numb to the sensation of death. Similarly, the more you play this game, the more you numb to the 'horror element'.
Solo play isn't scary. It's frustrating as hell.
And if SWF were removed from solo queue entirely, the game could be better balanced around the challenges of killer and 4 strangers, hopefully making things less frustrating and more engaging. While SWF exists in the same pool, though, any survivor buff is amplified by a factor of four, making the killer experience atrocious. While they're linked, you can't address what needs fixing.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099926#Comment_2099926
Bloodfavor works nice on killers that have a secondary attack that doesnt count as a basic attack. And people being downed near pallets is quite more common than you'd expect. Let alone that in most cases, 16 meters is plenty of distance to gain a second hit without having to care about any pallets. It is a bit too niche to work as it does right now, but the devs are a bit too afraid to block pallets too long(look at Cruel Limits for example, it blocks ALL vaulting locations, except for dropped pallets). This is simply indicative that this game needs more counterplay than just pallets. Like breakable windows.
Devour Hope "but requires the killer to already be doing very well to get any mileage out of it due to the build-up time". Not really, there have been plenty of games where I've been able to get 9 hooks and only kill 1 survivor simply due to them tanking hookstates efficiently, Devour Hope, even at 3 stacks, has a lot of value that goes ignored. Especially on m1 killers like Trapper and Myers that dont really have any way of effectively close gaps.
You should be running Haunted Grounds more often I hear. In a lot of cases, if you have ANY information perk, you can easily get more than 1 down out of it.
Lullaby is a tad weak, but not hearing any skillcheck trigger is worthy of it being a hex totem. Even if you already do decent, if ignored too long it makes the difference between a win and a loss. Which is essentially the secondary effect of any hex totem: forcing survivors to do anything other than just gens.
NOED well, you're right, except in your token based totem argument. Lullaby has an effect as long as it is active: if you fail a skillcheck, you get a 5% additional penalty. Devour Hope allows you to kill survivors without finishing any sacrifice.
Retribution is a very strong perk. Especially combined with any other hex totem. Giving survivors the oblivious status when they cleanse any dull totem means they do not hear you coming for 45 seconds. Cleansing any hex totem reveals their aura's for 10 full seconds(remember me saying that Haunted Grounds combined with ANY information perk easily would grant you more than 1 down? Retribution with Haunted Grounds is powerful enough to end games THAT is why it's a hex totem).
Ruin, nothing to add
Third Seal, VERY strong perk might I say. A lot of survivors actually dont look for this perk actively when they are affected. "but you can still see when a survivor gets downed or hooked." Well, that has nothing to do with blindness tho, that is simply the survivor HUD. But you CANT see where a survivor is downed, you do NOT get to see an alert where someone gets downed. You can see where a survivor is hooked for 5 seconds, sure, but after that, you do not see them, nor their hook. Heck, if you're on the opposite side of the map, survivors wont have a clue as the bubble they see is the same size on their screen, regardless if you hook them 2 meters away, or 100 meters away. Third Seal is a hidden gem. Remember Trail of Torment originally being buffed to keep killers Undetectable untill they down a survivor, yet quickly getting nerfed to include injuring survivors also? Third Seal is why. It's not the strongest effect, but it's definitely too powerful to be a regular perk. You'd be surprised how many people reach their second hook state because survivors are blinded. Or the new suggested OoO change? Third Seal is going to be it's main counter. My only grudge with this perk, is that it requires you to hit survivors actively and only applies to the survivors you hit.
Thrill of the Hunt, again, ALSO notifies you of people working on any hex totem. Solo it's relatively weak and doesnt do anything but grant you extra BP and a way of telling if survivors are cleansing dull totems(the counter goes down when they do). However, like Retribution, it's amazing at totem defense. So if you have a perk like Ruin and want to make it last, slap on Thrill of the Hunt. It's quite strong.
Undying, I mean, the old perk was far too powerful to be a perk. It's slightly weak right now as I think there should be a difference between cleansing Undying and cleansing a specific hextotem, but it's information is still quite nice(again, Haunted Grounds, people running around a totem without knowing = free down with Haunted Grounds being respawned). Still quite strong as it revives a hex totem that would otherwise be gone.
So out of all the hex totems, only Bloodfavor is one that I argue to be too weak, due to it having a cooldown it does not need as it's already reliant on basic attacks. You thinking other hex perks are worthless is you simply not thinking outside of the box and just slapping whatever is deemed meta by the community.
Perhaps I should've stated a little more clearly: every one of the hex perks I noted as being weak are Weak BECAUSE they are hex perks. They don't belong in that category, because their abilities are not better than perks you can take that the survivors cannot simply disable (or they have a single effect and you have to just hope you can get the most out of it because then it's gone, more like an item or addon than a perk). If Lullaby were a regular perk that couldn't be removed, sure it might be useful sometimes, even if it just always granted like the effect of 3 tokens and never went up. Retribution might be okay if it were a default power, that just showed auras the whole game, like Bitter Murmur or BBQ, but as something that is basically a one-shot johnny, it's awful. Same with Thrill of the Hunt. If Third Seal put blindness on for, say, 3-5 minutes and wasn't a hex, THAT might be useful. As a hex, you've got to be playing against non-SWF gamers who are just totally oblivious to everything going on and are just holding M1 on that gen all day.
A perk that survivors can turn off NEEDS to be game-defining, like Ruin, or perpetually useful, like Crowd Control. Anything linked to a hex totem needs to be stronger than Sloppy Butcher, Whispers, Pop Goes the Weasel, BBQ, or any of the other standard, always-good default perks that are not vulnerable to survivors spawning next to them. The whole travails of totems really only come down to the 3 good ones, with the others being either weaker than normal perks to begin with, or just existing to try to protect your 3 good hex options. That's awful.
But hey, I appreciate your thoughtful response, so please enjoy this:
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Well, what could use a boost?
Trapper: Needs like 2-4 minutes before the match starts to set up his traps.
Myers: Needs like 50% more evil to suck off of survivors, so you're less screwed by teams hiding out your T3.
Hag: Needs to teleport in facing the person who activated the trap, not just in any random direction as they get away.
Doctor: Needs to shut off vaulting/throwing power the second the survivor screams, not like 5 seconds after the scream is over. This is so frustrating.
Freddy: He feels great to play and I really hope any nerf doesn't screw with that. If you want to nerf him, make his Class Photo baseline and increase the CD on teleporting. That way, he can't just fake out teleports and every teleport becomes much more important to choose, rather than just spamming it all the time.
Pig: Cut down the time till the trap springs by like 50%.
Clown: More bottles. Like, 50% more bottles.
Legion: Remove the stun effect when Frenzy ends naturally, but keep it if you miss an attack, double-tap a guy, or prematurely end it.
Plague: Turn her puke into a flamethrower, not a series of invisible chunks, so it actually hits the target when the screen says it hit.
Demogorgon: Let him track survivors near inactive portals.
Executioner: Needs all new addons. His addons are the worst in the game (other than the 3 +range ones for his shockwave).
But as to the main question: Who should get worked on next? I'm gonna say Plague. She's such a great killer artistically and thematically, and her power is built so poorly. She needs the biggest change (altering how her puke hits work), and she's already throttled by her lack of mobility and built-in pool weakness. Fix her puke reliability and the healing pools suddenly become huge advantages with RELIABLE blood puke.
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Agreed. SWF should be its own mode, with more deadly killers, while solo queue should be the base game, with weaker killers. If you want the full experience, you're not allowed to play with friends. If you want to play with friends, expect to sweat.
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It's also worth noting that even if all hex totem powers got buffed and all hex totem spawns were very well hidden, it would still be perfectly fine, because survivors already have all the tools they need to deal with totems. You have maps. They auto-detect totems you pass by, higher tier maps that start with objects pre-tracked, addons that increase auto-detection range, and an addon that shows detected objects to everyone. You also have Small Game, that pings you when you're looking in the direction of a totem (or trap) on a very short cool down, making totem hunting far, far easier (and giving you some advance warning against Trapper, Freddy, and Hag)
And that's on top of a perk that auto-detects everything in a very large radius whenever a generator is done, which is already your main objective, removing the need to get off gens and go treasure hunting instead. This was run constantly during old Ruin/Undying days, with great success, and that hasn't changed now. Buffing hexes in any way is literally not a problem that doesn't already have hard counters survivors have easy access to.
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@Homemade_Cookies said:
Duh. It's high risk, high return mechanic.
What did you expect? A frickin treasure hunt for survivors?
Hex totems are supposed to be vulnerable.
90 seconds cleanse? Too bad.
They have the most powerful effects in all of DBD and yet you want to have the cake and eat it too.
Either don't equip Hex totems if you're scared of them being cleansed or just suck it up and think it's bad luck.
"They have the most powerful effects in all of DBD"
Let's take a look, shall we? https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Hex_Perks
- Blood Favor: Blocks palettes in an extremely small radius after hitting a target, with a very short duration and a long cool down. The only time this is ever going to be useful is if you down someone inside a palette before they can drop it and another survivor is right nearby waiting to drop the palette on your head when you go for the pickup. Extremely niche and significantly less powerful than almost every non-hex perk
- Crowd Control: Rushed Vaults block windows for a short period. It can block multiple spots, is not limited by range, and has no cool down. THIS is strong.
- Devour Hope: Rescuing people from hooks while the killer is gone builds stacks. At 3, you're exposed. At 5, you can be killed. Hilariously difficult to keep up before, with Undying, there's a chance that this may actually affect your game, though the killer is using two perks to do it. This is a strong perk, but requires the killer to already be doing very well to get any mileage out of it due to the build-up time.
- Haunted Ground: A trap that exposes everyone if cleansed. Literally only there to punish survivors for cleansing or to (theoretically) protect other hexes. Exposed lasts 60 seconds, but everyone is alerted, so unless you're very unlucky AND your team is playing foolishly, it's rare to get more than down down out of this, even against solo queues. This effect CAN be strong, but considering it's a one-shot, it almost never is.
- Huntress' Lullaby: Makes skill checks slightly harder by messing with audio cues. This also has to build up by hooking survivors, and has almost zero effect against experienced players whose muscle memory nails every skill check instantly. It has limited play against new survivors, but you have to be doing VERY well to build up to that point. Very bad.
- No One Escapes Death: Very Strong, but only in the end game and does not suffer the effects of all other hex totems by not lighting up until it's good to go. Some of those token-based totems could learn from this. Very strong.
- Retribution: Reveals the auras of survivors who cleanse hex totems (but not dull ones) for 10 seconds. Hilariously weak.
- Ruin: Gens automatically regress. Very Strong.
- The Third Seal: Inflicts Blindness on survivors you hit. You'd think this would be strong, but you can still see when a survivor gets downed or hooked. It just shuts off being able to see slugs and still-on-hooks. If you remember where the alert came from, you can find the target easily. Weak perk
- Thrill of the Hunt: Reduces cleansing speed and increases BP gain. Increases a cleanse from 14 seconds to 18 seconds. Extremely weak.
- Undying: Saves one of your other hexes from being trashed (and now preserves the tokens on it). Also reveals auras, but only around Dull totems, not hexes. Literally does nothing other than keep another totem up. It's basically a perk tax to try to avoid a bad spawn. Wouldn't be needed if totems were hidden better. Only as strong as the perk it's protecting.
So, that's 3 strong hexes (Crowd Control, Ruin, Noed), 2 situational hexes (Devour, Undying), and 6 worthless hexes (everybody else).
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Throw out every Pyramid Head add on that is not "extend range of shockwave" and redo the lot of 'em. The increase duration, increase recharge, and increase amount should all be on one add on, as each of these individually makes as close to zero impact as can be perceived. From there, all the new ones should be things to help Pyramid Head with his biggest weaknesses (mobility, slow down, tracking), or should provide minor quality of life improvements (reduce duration of missed shockwaves, all survivors start off tormented, survivors no longer remove torment when saving others from cages, your shockwave puts down torment trails when it is used, your trails of torment power makes no sound and does not slow you when it is used and you are not in a chase, etc).
Basically, it sucks playing a killer with ONE viable add on.
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Trickster DOES have a unique advantage that no other killer has: When lacerate builds to max and inflicts a damage state, the survivor does not get a speed burst, like they do whenever they take damage from anything else (other than stepping in a beartrap for obvious reasons).
In THEORY, this lets him stay on you longer, which I assume was the justification for the slower move speed and the very high number of hits needed to inflict a damage state, and possibly even for the laceration decay. The problem is that he has ALL of those negative debuffs, on top of low accuracy, high recoil, move slowdown, and limited ammo.
It's a case of coming up with an idea ("what if he could hurt you without letting you sprint to safety?") and then pouring layers of conditions and hinderances on top of one another to justify the small boost. It should really come as no surprise, this is also how killer perks are designed these days. Compare old perks (50% less stun duration) to newer ones (After hitting a survivor TWICE with BASIC attacks, for 30 seconds, any time a survivor makes a GOOD but not GREAT skill check on a generator, it will light up in yellow, but only until they stop holding M1)
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He's like the other side of the coin on Twins: Twins are an ugly killer model that lacks any aesthetic coolness, has a lame backstory, and is utterly devoid of anything that makes a slasher compelling; BUT the obvious playstyle for Twins is slugging, one survivors hate to play against. Trickster has style oozing from every pore, looks great, has a great backstory, and makes perfect sense as a slasher; BUT the obvious playstyle is trying to get knife hits, which is so outrageously awful and easy to evade that survivors are going to love every minute of it.
Both bad and not all that appealing for killer players, but for different reasons. Nobody gives a crap about some poor, victimized French peasant who's just misunderstood; but nobody wants to play a competitive game wearing training weights.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2057688#Comment_2057688
Usually the ones taunting at the end are survivors who were tunneled and camped and in that case,,,while still wrong,,,they are showing the killer the error of their ways lol. I will tell the killers what they have said for a long time now to complaining survivors,,,"get better".
You could not be more wrong.
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I don't know if this is true for other people, but it's almost exclusively purple and red rank survivors who are huge douchebags to me. Those are the ones rapid-clicking flashlights, teabagging, refusing to leave through the exit or hatch till they see you, acting like they'll give you a mercy final hit but then Dead Harding to the exit, taunting and trash talking after the game is over, and launching into strings of expletives even if they ran you around the whole game and got out perfectly.
Just something about putting a lot of time into the game that seems to transform people into miserable scumbags. Or, I guess, being 14 and having nothing to do with their time other than rank up and behave like a child.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041712#Comment_2041712
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2040686#Comment_2040686
just going to say that she is better than trapper since trapper can have his power disabled easily.
plague at the very least survivors are either all injured or you have a very strong ranged attack due to that aspect of plague she is stronger than trapper.
Not all fountains are at the edge of the map if survivors cleanse you just always use the corrupted pools and you get fast downs and you can just win like that and if you are getting stunned you're not being careful so that is entirely the killers fault.
What people need to understand is while plague is subjected to RNG with pools and some consistency issues with the right build (all killers need them besides very few) you can just always capitalize on what survivors do.
Like you are either a m1 killer that has everyone easy to find/exposed or you are constantly using CP to end chases quickly. There isn't a middle ground since that is both having injured survivors and giving her CP which is when she is at her strongest.
I guess you missed that part where I said that all her other weaknesses could be forgiven if her power worked like every other power in the game and showed you what hits and what doesn't, and how playing her feels terrible because you're just straight up being lied to by the graphic design.
I agree Trapper's weak and all that, but at least you can trap up loops, and when they're set, they're set. The hit box for 'em ought to be bigger too, but it still works as advertised (most of the time)
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The half-assed way the Mori nerf was handled was the biggest problem. "We'll nerf moris and keys. Oh actually, keys are going to be hard to change, so just moris." The 'fix' to moris made them hilariously useless, and was obviously just the first suggestion somebody pitched with no consideration to other options. But somehow, keys deserve special thought and deliberation to find a balance that doesn't invalidate them but also reduces their impact? Okay, sure. Perfectly balanced.
Also, it's been mentioned above, but considering that Moris are now entirely just there for the special kill animation, why are they still so expensive? Why weren't they downgraded in rarity when the change went through? They upgrade and downgrade addons all the time, but somehow it just wasn't important enough to make the cost match the usefulness?
And what about all the BP already spent on the old Moris? Heaven forbid we get the difference in BP between the old cost and the brown/yellow cost that they're actually worth now. Nah, see that would take work, so it's entirely off the table.
The only effort that could be done was changing a "1" to a "2." A minimal effort and it just swept the strongest offerings off the table for every killer at once. And that came more or less around the same time as the "what if we remove Bloodlust" proposal and the nerfs to various killer perks. Sure felt like putting the boots to the dead horse!
Flash forward to now and there's dozens of threads whining about how survivors are getting nerfed into the ground with the Decisive Strike change. What a terrible fate, to have even the slightest inconvenience for survivors!
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Plague's the only killer whose power includes a ton of heal spots that not only remove her power but ALSO heal the survivor back to the healthy state. Unlike Pig's 'guess which of the 4 boxes' or Freddy's '1 per survivor alarm clocks', the stage is FILLED with fountains to heal off of. She's also one of the tallest killers (making it difficult to fake out loops) and also has no built-in movement, tracking, or slow down. Her addons are worded poorly, making it difficult to determine what each one actually does, and the infection timer is both hidden from her UI and take so long baseline that waiting for that to pop before hitting the survivor often takes just as long as hitting someone twice like any other M1 killer.
But all that could be forgiven, if her puke worked the way it looks. It feels terrible to puke directly on a survivor with a full charge and not tag them even once. Puke travels so slowly and in such a short arc that survivors can often outrun it by just going straight ahead. On top of that, the hit confirmation is the least reliable part of the game. The actual effect is to shoot a series of chunks out that trigger 'hits' with empty spaces between them that do nothing. But, because it appears as one, unbroken stream of puke, there is no way to tell what is or is not hitting, so you're left with survivors weaving back and forth in your puke stream and coming out miraculously as clean as if you were gently misting them with mineral water.
I cannot fathom why the graphics don't appear as the actual chunks, or why it doesn't work like the flamethrower it appears to be. But it is so frustrating that the whole character just feels bad to play. It really is a shame: the mechanic is a really cool one. I don't even think she needs a big buff, just make her puke reflect what does and does not actual hit like every other projectile in the game.
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Different themes for hooks seems like a no-brainer for cosmetics. They already put decorations on hooks for holiday events and people would love to customize the hooks with more than teeny, tiny, nearly imperceptible charms.
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If every breakable wall benefits the killer to break, then there is no reason for a killer not to break the walls on strong tiles to help shut them down in advance (other than wasted time).
If some walls are bad to break and actually help the survivors if they are broken, there are "wrong choices," that a killer can make. This is usually a type of reward for people who play often enough to know which walls are good to break and which are traps. Or, to frame it another way: it's a punishment for new players, who break everything they see.
Personally, I think it's pretty crummy to put trap walls in the game to make the game even harder for new players, but that's how things are.
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MMR Feedback: Rank 12 killer
Game 1: Bought the Blight as a fresh new killer and after a long wait, I was matched up against fairly low skill rank 16-20 survivors. Went 3-1 with 2 gens done and a hatch escape. This was ideal, as I had no idea how to use his power and I only managed to make one successful lethal rush.
Game 2: Used Ghostface (only played him 4-6 times before and never well) and was matched up against a Med Kit squad of matching Year of the rooster survivors (rank 12-20). Went 3-1. This squad was similarly low skill, but far better at staying on gens, having finished all 5 and one getting out through the exit gate.
Game 3: Used The Pig (only played her 6-8 times, with mixed success) and was matched up against far more capable survivors across the spectrum (8-16). The 16 died to the helmet while the others knew to boop the snoot, implying a degree of proficiency. Went 2-2, with 5 gens complete and both getting out the exit.
Game 4: Used Pyramid Head (played 20+ times, with a sizably large losing record) and was matched with a rainbow (4, 4, 8, 13). Despite the two red ranks, I went 3-1 with 4 gens done and the last survivor making the hatch. These survivors were considerably better at looping, but not great as they ran away from the strongest tiles pretty regularly.
Game 5: Used Doctor (30+ times with a sizable winning record) and was matched with the strongest group yet (3, 4, 6, 13). Went 2-2 with 5 gens done and exit gates opened. This was also the first instance of Decisive Strike (all 4 survivors had it) and also the first instance of rapid teabagging (by the red ranks, of course).
Game 6: Used Freddy (20+ times with a moderate winning record) and went against a middling squad (9-19). This was the first instance of Rage Quits, as the rank 9 quit on his first down (before he was even hooked) and another survivor DC'd on hook immediately thereafter. It was a 4-0 with 2 gens finished.
In summary, I felt like the match-making was pretty accurate (except for the final Freddy Game). Killers that I either have very little experience with or am terrible with went against significantly less capable groups, while ones that I am better with ran into way better survivor squads. This is good news, because I had been holding off on picking up any new killers due to trying to learn their powers while red ranks clown me down and the experience soured me pretty fast on the whole thing. With a more linear progression of difficulty, I think it will be easier to grow into new killers and not get stomped unceasingly along the way.
Finally, I would like to note that while Freddy's game was the least well-matched, the fact that two people gave up 90 seconds into the match played an overwhelming role in the 4k. This is by no means unusual for my Freddy games before the new MMR either. I'm not sure if the Devs are discounting game data involving DC's, but I really do believe this is why Freddy's kill numbers are (apparently) so high: some survivors just straight up quit (which only goes to reinforce the impression that he's OP for the ones who don't quit but now find themselves playing a 2-survivor game).
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I don't mind getting zero kills in a game if it felt like I was doing a good job of catching Survivors and they were doing a good job of helping one another. When it's just top tier players looping me endlessly for the entire game, even a 4k feels awful.
Being able to hit, down, and hook will always be more fun than playing ring-around-the-rosey, no matter the final score.
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Same thing with Pyramid Head and all the "Undetectable" they were pushing for him. Not having a red stain or terror radius doesn't do very much when he's stomping around and slamming his weapon into the ground with the crash of a thunderstorm (much less that he's so tall you can see him coming over most walls anyway). Undetectable probably ought to silence ALL killer noises, if it's supposed to be a stealth element.
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How about locking in the grab/unhook animation, like every other action in the game. Once you're committed to vaulting, you vault. Once you're committed to throwing the palette, the palette comes down (and stuns the killer even if they hit you). But for some reason, when survivors go for an unsafe unhooking right in the killer's face, they can cancel the unhook to try to bait an attack instead. And they can stay on generators well past the point where the killer's hand is on their shoulder and they're about to pick them up, but then they let go and the grab is fully cancelled.
If it plays the grab animation, you should get the grab 100% of the time.
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Pyramid Head just sees a whole lotta sexually-frustrated, philandering widowers in need of confronting their own feelings of grief, shame, and loss.
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When a squad of survivors stomp you all over the place, teabagging endlessly, and then take the time to insult you in chat after the game. I get it: you won. Great job. Move along to your next game, no need for name calling to rub it in.
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Green rank killer and I'm getting 2-4 red rank stomp-squads ever game. Even on Nurse, who I've played all of 4 times, I get a fully bully squad of ultra pros. MMR ain't on, it's just that all the pro survivors came back to the game after they gave Survivors their zero-lag 360s back.
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I'll do you one better: you can throw out every single Pyramid Head add on except the ones that extend the range of his shockwave. All the others, from the browns all the way up to the iridescents are atrociously awful, with as close to zero gameplay impact as any item in DBD.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4RJ91L91SNZ0/20210305-102141.jpg
I just checked I still have it on my Switch. Did you check on your last offering page?
Ah! There they are. Well, my bad for not flipping all the way back. I'd just assumed they would be at the front, with the anniversary cakes. Well, disregard this whole thread, then.
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@Zaytex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1997426#Comment_1997426
It doesn't matter either way, survivors will end up remembering where totem spots are after a certain time.
It's wild to me that totem spawns are in static locations. Almost all of them are atrociously out in the open and incredibly easy to locate from great distances. That kind of terrible placement really feels like it's the product of a purely random system that just choses arbitrary X,Y coordinates, not something some programmer went through the effort of placing by hand.
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If totems were actually well hidden on all maps and not just out in the open right next to the spawn, maybe I could see your point.
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If everybody's is max health, the doors have been opened, and they don't have NOED, there basically no reason to even bother. Sometimes, survivors will let you get one parting hit, but most of them just teabag and Dead Hard through the gate. I'd rather not give them the satisfaction, personally.
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@Anniehere said:
They announced that the event would last for another week and it's over a few days before the weekend.
It was obvious that they would disappear eventually.
I can see them still on the bloodweb but not in the inventory. maybe a bug.
Why is it obvious that they would disappear eventually? I still have Blight Serums in inventory, even though I can't use them anymore.
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@malloymk said:
It would make 3 genning too strong. Maybe 1 percent, with a faster regression.
1% is totally pointless. If regression was 2-3 times faster than it currently is, that'd be better, but it still wouldn't solve the problem of "I kicked this thing with my size 25 face-stomping boot and it's unharmed? That's stupid."
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"Back?"
I'm green rank killer and a typical survivor team consist of 1-2 red ranks, 1-2 purple ranks, and 1-2 brown ranks. I think I see a green rank survivor once in every 12 games. No new MMR is on, it's just that matchmaking is as random as ever.
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When I started, I assumed kicking a generator regressed it by a bit and started the regression timer that was roughly equal to one player working on it (minus the boosts from skill checks, so it's effectively still slower).
Imagine my surprise when I learned (through the wiki, not through any in-game source) that kicking a generator does NO regression and the kicked regression is 1/4th the speed of a single survivor on it (again, minus any skill check boosts).
It seems pretty counter-intuitive. You're some 8' monster bashing this delicate machinery and it does virtually nothing (other than wasting time). 5-8% regression from kicking seems like it'd make way more sense.
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I think the aesthetic is slick, the appearance is cool, the time frame is unique, and the ability is clever.
That being said, I haven't played on the PTB, and it sounds like he's wildly underpowered. But that's more or less the state of killers these days. They're either a pain in the ass to play (Blight), ugly as hell (Twins), or hilariously weak (apparently Trickster). Here's hoping all the potato survivors don't ######### their way to another unplayable killer getting released.
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Whispers.
When I started, I assumed Whispers was supposed to give you an auditory warning about the location of survivors, which it KIND OF does. But it's so faint as to inaudible most of the time, and especially so on extremely heavy-stomping killers like Demogorgon. It wasn't until I discovered that the ACTUAL way it works is by lighting up and turning off that I began to understand just how useful it is. Don't get me wrong: being looped ad nauseum is terrible, but the WORST part of playing a killer is trying to find super stealthy survivors. I can't stand wandering around the map blindly as gens pop all around without so much as a chase to my name. Whispers helps zone in on where they're hiding and when it's fine to take a more detailed look.
Certainly, there are other perks that achieve similar ends. Tinkerer and Discordance, for instance. But those depend on conditions outside of your control and stealthy survivors can play around them, especially once they've identified that you're using 'em. You can't escape Whispers. And that's to say nothing of how friggin great Whispers is on the final stand-off, flushing out survivors who are waiting for you to patrol away from an exit gate. I don't doubt that there are better perks and that better players don't need Whispers, but for my money, it's the best quality of life perk around.
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Use the friggin alarm clocks. It's not hard, there are no skill checks, it takes around 2 seconds, it doesn't alert the killer, it doesn't waste another survivor's turn, and it doesn't incur an increasing time penalty.
Honestly, asking Survivors to get off of generators for 5 seconds these days. It's absurd.
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Ghostface's passive: All the survivors have cell phones in their pockets and they ring from time to time, alerting the killer (like Doctor's screams inflicting madness)
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1964872#Comment_1964872
So you consider tunneling and camping to be a dirty playstyle?
And on par with with a bully squad?
I am genuinely curious.
Is it on par? Probably not. At their core, Tunneling and Camping are means of getting kills, which is still the core goal of the killer. They're also not very sporting, a fact that is reflected in how doing these will result in lower bloodpoints by the end of the match (and, after all, getting bloodpoints is the real point of the game).
What IS an equal counter is slugging the entire survivor team and letting them all bleed out. At that point, you're wasting your time and theirs just to demonstrate your disdain for them and their tactics. You're saying "I would rather not get easy points and just end this game because you have chosen to try and ruin my fun, so now nobody gets to have any fun."
I'm not saying that I've slugged teams that bring 4x flashlights and body block / sabo every hook before I can hook them. But I'm also not NOT saying that.
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Bully Squads exist to give killers a justification for tunneling and camping. If the survivors' only goal is to ruin the killer's fun, it invites the killer to play as dirty as they'd like. It's one big mud wrestling battle where all the normal rules go out the window.
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Bully Squads exist to give killers a justification for tunneling and camping. If the survivors' only goal is to ruin the killer's fun, it invites the killer to play as dirty as they'd like. It's one big mud wrestling battle where all the normal rules go out the window.
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They can't possibly made Haddonfield worse than it already is, so update that one.
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I'd settle for matchmaking that didn't thrust my Green Rank ass into 4 red rank survivor lobbies every other game.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1964378#Comment_1964378
Freddy has both the highest kill rate and pick rate. It's the combination of both that is the problem.
Kill rate is as I mentioned above. I've run into a ton of survivors who just auto-DC the second they see the who they're playing against, which basically throws the game for everyone else. The high pick rate is partly because he was the WORST killer in the game and his rework made him actually good and fun to play. Plus, he's got two distinct power choices with Snares and Palettes, giving him a lot more replay value than most one-trick ponies.
Certainly, I'm sure the complaints about how OP he is has also driven up killers who want an easier time of it. I think everyone will agree that Nurse is the most powerful killer, but she's extremely hard to play from the get-go. Freddy doesn't have the same "feels bad to play until you're suddenly amazing" hurdle. But that hurdle also goes for all the other skill-shot killers, like Deathslinger, Huntress, or Pyramid Head. The killer is only good if you main them for a really long time.
Freddy has all the tools a killer needs (chase catch-up snares, mind game palettes, scream tracking, gen patrol teleports, and gen slowdown addons), and both feels good to play and doesn't have an absurdly high skill ceiling you need to master. I'd far prefer them to make all killers closer to Freddy and just reduce the amount of time gens take to do. If everybody is having fun, shorter games would be far preferable to slow ones where everything is a grind for survivors and killers alike.
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The Tall Man from "Phantasm"
The Sissorman from "Clocktower"
Tucker & Dale from "Tucker & Dale Vs. Evil" (These college kids just keep killin' themselves!)
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1964347#Comment_1964347
A Killer that immediately downs all 4 Survivors and gets a 4k with 4 hooks isn't out of their league, and tombstone Myers only makes sense with the objective being kills > hooks.
Actually it DOES mean they're out of their league. Their skill level is wildly ABOVE that of the survivors. That's bad matchmaking. Remember that "out" means in either direction. If you down all four guys and hook them before anybody can get a save, you're playing against potatoes.
Tombstone Meyers (and all the Moris, pre-nerf) are there to either feel empowered as the killer for once, or to get a guy out of the match, because the game becomes way easier for the killer when there's only 3 people to deal with. Playing auto-kills is more for funsies than a real indication of the normal gameplay experience and should not be regarded as valuable data when calculating survivor/killer stats.
Remember: Freddy is getting 'changed' (nerfed) because his kill numbers are 'too high'. But how many of those numbers reflect petulant survivors who don't want to play against Freddy and just give up on the first hook (or just DC)? We don't know and that's crummy because that inflates the perception of strength. Freddy's way more likely to get a 4k if he only has to deal with 3 guys for 99% of the match and all it takes is one person deciding to screw over their team.
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Kill Rate is the wrong metric. It's like asking Survivors "how many gens do you want to get done every game?" Well, yes, the end goal would be all, but survivors mostly care about escaping, which could very well be through the hatch or a key or hiding in a locker while somebody else does all the gens for you.
The killer metric SHOULD be: How many hooks do killers get per game. I don't want a survivor to get hooked and give up right away. That's terrible, it hurts their team and it artificially inflates killer numbers. I don't think anyone wants killers standing guard at the hook till a survivor goes from full to dead, either. That's just number padding as well. This misunderstanding is clearly shared by the Dev team, as their handy "hook count" meter for killers automatically fills in the bubbles when a survivor dies, even if you only hooked them once.
At absolute worst, a killer should be able to get 5-6 hooks during a game. Sometimes that equals a 4k. Sometimes that equals a 0k. If they're getting less than that, the killer is facing survivors way out of their league (either due to bad matchmaking or due to killer weakness/genrush strength). A balanced game should probably have around 9 hooks, which usually means 1-3 survivors dead.
tl;dr - It's not the kills that count, it's the hooks. If you measure those and balance around them, you get a way better picture of the state of game balance.
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Welcome to the family, son.