AChaoticKiller
AChaoticKiller
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New chapters do draw in more players which leads to more players finding out about the forums.
It is irritating to see people think they know how something works and it shows their lack of understanding on the topic. A good example is all these Mori posts when anyone that has been here for a long time and has looked into rework posts know that there wasn't really a better nerf to Mori's, pretty much every other idea had a big flaw or didn't do enough/did too much.
We are also getting a good old "DC remove pls" post practically every other day from players new and old not liking that they can't rage quit and they come here to whine about it.
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It's a trap to see if a survivor or killer tries to step out of line.
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I don't see accidentally killing yourself on hook because your struggle button gave out or you lagged.
I play this game so much i had to switch my struggle button from A to B on my controller since it was so worn out i kept killing myself on accident, that and dying from a lag spike on struggle phase makes me take a break for the day a lot.
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monstrous shrine: For each survivor hooked in the basement all survivors get -15%/-20%/-25% to repairs, cleansing, and opening the exit gates. Monstrous shine is not active unless you are 24 meters away from the basement. Survivors in the basement suffer from the oblivious status effect. While monstrous shrine is active you move 10% faster.
The distance can be changed but i think it would be a cool rework to the perk.
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I just lobby dodge, In high ranks i get matches fast so i don't have to worry. I also like to play hag with franklins if i see it sometimes and they almost always end up killing themselves trying to get the key back.
Like I support Mori's getting nerfed even if it does this and i barely play survivor if i don't have a challenge/daily.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1811339#Comment_1811339
No what I'm saying is making mori's basekit permanently, not temporarily. I understand you disagree with me but I would say the majority of the community agrees Mori's and keys should have been done at the same time. And at the very least they should have been treated the same way instaheals were, not sneaked into some hotfix patch where they couldn't be used up beforehand. You seem to think Key's are mori's should be treated as two separate subjects whereas I, and again the majority, feel the power they give both sides is intertwined and therefore be dealt with simultaneously.
"Mori's and keys never balanced this game, they were simply the strongest thing both sides have. situationally keys are stronger but that strength is way more uncommon then what mori's showed in any game they were used in. simply put mori's were more of a problem because their strength was more common and easier to use. sure keys are in slightly more matches but their not always used."
I mean this is entirely anecdotal information. I've been in games with an ebony mori and it was never used. I've also been in games where survivors managed to 3 man escape with hatch when there was no hope of escape, all because of key. We can play 'ive seen this and i've seen that' back and forth the reality is they should be treated equally. If mori no longer gives an real advantage the key should be treated just the same.
Keys, unlike mori's, cant simply be lobby dodged anymore with the recent influx of key's spawning in chests thanks to 'key to success' builds.
And were those games common? No most games mori's are used to win them, most games keys result to only 1 survivor escaping if they even get to use it. Mori's were more of a problem it doesn't matter if 1 out of 50 players or whatever don't use them the majority use mori's to win. I also think they should have been done at the same time but i'm also fine that they were not because mori's are no longer a problem.
Using uncommon examples doesn't prove anything it just shows i was right that keys are stronger situationally, in a mod post they said that 2% off all escapes are from keys. If it's that low what percent do you think mori's make up for kills? The very fact that either are not used in the majority of matches let alone together shows that they don't balance each other out.
Also keys to success that isn't common especially in high ranks were the meta is most common so again getting a key during a match isn't common.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1811272#Comment_1811272
I mean I play both survivor and killer on a regular basis. I would definitely say I'm more killer sided, not because its my preferred method but because they get screwed with on every turn. The devs just seem to want to make 4k's harder and harder for the average killer to achieve and I disagree with that philosophy. DBD should at it's core be what it has always been, an asymmetrical survival horror game. Instead, they seem to be believe swinging everything to be survivor sided makes the game somehow more competitive when in reality it just makes it more frustrating to continue playing killer.
Let's sum this up quickly please. What main points do you want me to addres about Mori's being balanced? And before you respond let me at least say this on the matter:
Nerfing the mori's now have not balanced the game, they've created an unbalance as one side now has the ability to shorten match lengths in their favor while the other does not.
Yes keys may get nerfed at some point, but until then it is still unbalanced.
You have my list and your responses didn't address the points i made.
also why should mori's be basekit until keys are nerfed? fighting unbalance with unbalance doesn't = balanced that a horrible mindset to have. yes keys are still a problem but you said it yourself they will get changed, so what if survivors have their best item untouched for now. The amount of BS mori's had in games has been addressed which means better overall game health and balance even if there is a slight key usage increase that doesn't change the balance state of the game on the survivors side it's the same as it has always been.
Don't like keys then lobby dodge them, last second key switches are rare so if you want to avoid them you can. Everyone has their opinions and wanting mori's to be untouched until keys are addressed is a common one. But when discussing balance you don't include your opinion on a separate subject you talk about the subject in question not it's counterpart.
Mori's and keys never balanced this game, they were simply the strongest thing both sides have. situationally keys are stronger but that strength is way more uncommon then what mori's showed in any game they were used in. simply put mori's were more of a problem because their strength was more common and easier to use. sure keys are in slightly more matches but their not always used.
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yeah slugging is just what will happen you can't change it.
Since victor can't hook survivors and he would be weak as hell if he can't down them your forced to slug even if it's only partially. the most effective thing to do with him is to leave that survivor to try to get him on someone else or you know slug them and leave victor with them so you can do things near you.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1810951#Comment_1810951
You say a lot of contradictory things to your viewpoint. You don't make a whole lot of sense in most of your logic. You say it's next to impossible to save while carrying survivor to the hook but you say that it would be crazy op to take the mori at this state and make it basekit. But you also say that mori is balanced now. All of these statements can't all be true. I'm at work so I don't have time to piss with you about this. That link isn't showing my profile, most likely because it's private. But If you want i'll SS my killer page tonight and send it to you if it makes you all wet and warm inside :)
alright i'll believe you but that just makes me think your too biased to offer proper balance suggestions, regarding your idea of basekit you can't refute the points you just pulled strawman arguments meaning you ignored and didn't address what i said and you include things that don't matter in the balance aspect which is the main topic. As for saves how often does a single survivor pull off a save on you, if it is often you just bad then and not being careful. I play killer daily and the amount of saves that happen in a month can be counted on my hands and they are mostly from multiple survivors trying to save the person im carrying.
Mori's are balanced now, if your saying they are not strong enough then your just power hungry not everything has to be game changing strong. The fact that you are ok with how this would encourage toxic behavior in every game without offering a suggestion shows your biased and don't care about balance. If your suggestion makes mori's even weaker which it would then it would be better to have it as a offering.
Like i said the simply nerf the devs gave us was the best one, not a single suggested change to mori's is as effective and safe as it and most are exploitable. Yours just has too many problems in all sorts of ways. Acknowledge it or not your suggestion has too many faults BALANCE wise, small insignificant things like the bloodweb doesn't matter in the face of balance and game health.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1811017#Comment_1811017
After using franklins people are seriously exaggerating how helpful it is. Keys are way more manageable with that perk. the only time it's hard is when an ACTUALLY good team plays. Which rarely happens becuase its PUBS. It would be better but hey moris are stronger.
situationally keys are stronger but normally Mori's are.
The moment the hatch requirements are meet and hatch is found with a survivor who has a key you lost a kill, if it's a swf you lost multiple.
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dude i rotten fields twice and wanted to rage quit on the spot.
You can barely see them and the only time i benefited was if they were on a gen.
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Keys are situational but that doesn't mean they are fair at all.
like why should having an item and finding hatch (which is pretty easy on most maps) let you instantly and completely safely escape with the possibility of others escaping as well. even if they don't EGC still starts and if there are 2 other survivors left at least 1 will escape and if there is only 1 survivor left its unlikely that they will escape so it screws him over.
Also of course the escapes keys makeup are low they are not brought into every match and they don't always get used. How many games are played a day and how many of them do you think keys are brought/found in. What matters is how they work situationally not how often that situation occurs.
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As long as you are decent yeah since not every game is against good survivors. Perks greatly influence games but they don't win them for you against good survivors, as long as you can do okish you can pip and the meta perks for killers help with that.
Besides it has never been that hard to pip like i got into R1 after i want to say 3 months of playing killer and i wasn't the best yet i still pipped even in games i lost. I feel that hasn't changed too much as safety pips prevent you from deranking too much so eventually anyone can make it to R1.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/212665/twins-being-to-op-spine-chill-does-not-work
Spine chill isnt good anyways. Usually only pussies run it XD
cries in wraith, pig, ghostface, myers, deathslinger, spirit, and tinkerer.
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@ZtarShot said:
The only real problem with the change is timing. It did need a change, but instead of deciding to try and not face backlash by releasing it with a keys patch too they only did moris.
I feel like this is the main thing that has caused complaining, like if they waited the amount of posts regarding mori nerf being unfair/ect would be a lot less since a lot of players would be satisfied that both sides lost their strongest thing.
Also regarding whoever works on balance whether they hate it or not who knows but the people that approved of hillbillys addons like having a flashlight shining on you need to understand that situational things like that isn't what players want and they are borderline useless.
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@Mozzie said:
Im looking for a discussion not a meaningless argument. Saying I'm not answering your points or they are incredibly weak etc while being hostile and contradictory statements is not moving this anywhere. I'm on steam, I don't know about stats as I don't think steam tracks them other than time played and mine is more as I've played since launch. I have all killers, save the most recent 4, p3 with all perks and half the survivors done. But does this really have to be a pee pee measuring contest?
Here you go :)
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@Mozzie said:
Im looking for a discussion not a meaningless argument. Saying I'm not answering your points or they are incredibly weak etc while being hostile and contradictory statements is not moving this anywhere. I'm on steam, I don't know about stats as I don't think steam tracks them other than time played and mine is more as I've played since launch. I have all killers, save the most recent 4, p3 with all perks and half the survivors done. But does this really have to be a pee pee measuring contest?
you called me biased i provided bare minimum proof that i at least have way more time in killer in this game. Like without proof your claim of having all killers p3 and playing since release isn't very believable since anyone can say that. Not saying it's impossible but for someone to disregard balance knowing how this game is either shows you don't care about balance or you don't have the time you say you do. i said show stats because only new players or extremely biased ones say what you say and from what you say you don't have a good grasp on this game, like how saves are easy to avoid that is the truth for good players and since you claim to have all killers p3 surely you are good enough to rarely have a save be successful.
all your points were weak and you didn't counter mine, if that is not a meaningless argument to you yet losing one is then nice you should acknowledge when you have lost.
Im pretty sure you can see your stats on steam since i have seen some interesting stats like how many blinks someone has done as nurse on youtube but im unsure where you could find them maybe look at a separate site that tracks it. For now i won't believe you have the time you say you do in this game because it's hard to believe that you do based off what you say, feel free to prove me wrong or not at this point it doesn't matter since we are basically done here.
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@Greatamygdala said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1810807#Comment_1810807
I'm literally just going off on the whole "B-but Mori nerf was easier to implement" when Keys is just the same. Change a number and you're done. You think I don't want an actual rework for the keys?
the devs took the best approach to mri's and it happens to be a simple number change. The nerf is just that a nerf but unlike almost every other idea to nerf mori's it didn't introduce any exploits or unfairness.
I'll agree that it's disappointing how uncreative it was but out of all the idea's for mori's i have seen this one has always been a "meh, i wouldn't mind it but i want something else". However i never saw a idea that didn't have major flaws in one aspect or another so that something else was never clear.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1810749#Comment_1810749
Your a survivor main, we get it. You think that the mori buff added balance to the game when it actually created unbalance. There are two things in the game that could quickly speed on the game in favor of one side. Survivors has keys and killers had mori's. That's not even debatable. I didn't knowingly dodge any of your points. If you want me to go through these all again I will.
- "Killers have the same amount of options if they use a Mori and the only options that get introduced are tunneling options
Just because you use a mori you automatically assume everyone will tunnel. That's a fallacy. Don't believe it? See Pyramid Head.
- It won't affect blood webs that noticeably, go look at my post response i already disproved this and pointed out how stupid that is as using it as a point for mori's to be basekit.
Yes, say that to people like myself who have over 200 ebony mori's alone on there killers. That equates to 1.4 million wasted blood points on a single offering, not including the other two.
- yeah reduces slugging by killing survivors which is NOT a trade why do you think slugging exists its to help kill survivors. Your literally just buffing killings mate.
It's not like when players are getting mori'd the rest are just standing around and doing nothing. Those animations take time and if needed could be increased.
- LOL devs won't do that you just included BS in that list and this is about balance not about cosmetics
Say's who? You honestly don't think they've already taken this into consideration?
- Saves are extremely easy to avoid as killer and if they try it and fail they are wasting their time and you are getting into a chase faster. Only bad killers complain about SWF saves.
Okay, you're just being silly now or you camp the hook, not sure what's worse but we can try it in KYF and see how well you do.
Yeah that isn't likely, sure it will slightly affect how intense players will try but the impact as said won't be much. People don't even attempt saves unless nearby and only idiots follow the killer around doing nothing until that survivor goes down
You are basing this on what exactly? To say that people don't attempt saves makes me think you play a lot of green rank solo survivor a lot.
- BRUH you just complained about swf and now your complaining about perks that are not a problem, also it wont reduce them your wrong. If a player doesn't tunnel and they get a survivor on death hook they will use the hook, Mori's will be used for tunneling by avoiding save chances with any in game mechanic. Also getting a kill earlier is not equal to not being able to use a perk, it is always better to have a easier kill.
I'm not complaining about them, I'm simply listing the pro's and con's if such a change were to be made. How would it not reduce them? That doesn't even make sense. If you don't hook how are hook based perks to work? If you don't slug how are slug based perks to work? If you don't carry how are carry based perks to work? You're arguing about things that are indisputable. If you wanted to put a good argument to that you would say ' is it enough of a tradeoff?'
- That is unrelated to balance again you just added filler.
Having survivors afraid means they are more likely to make mistakes and less likely to progress. Come on....
- It doesn't limit closing the hatch how TF does it??????? if anything it buffs the killer since they can mori survivors on the hatch and if a survivor is escaping by hatch they are not doing gens so the killer can wait off DS and hook that person or carry them to hatch and mori them. You don't understand how things impact games do you.
I'm fairly confident after reading all your points you either rarely play killer or know very little about them. Mori's cause the hatch to open instantly after the animation is played.
my profile on xbox is achaoticprince go check my stats i have around 8k kills. I love it when someone doesn't have a good argument and tries to justify their bias by calling the other side biased when they just have better points. I already addressed all your points and you bring NOTHING new to the table at this point it is already clear that mori's being basekit is bad for this game. Also what buff? this was a nerf and it did make the game more balanced because mori's don't decide how matches go anymore. Keys are a separate issue that will get addressed and this isn't about keys.
- you don't speak for all players i simple speak the truth, if something is exploitable players exploit it. that is true across all games no matter how people feel about it.
- you have too many mori's? replace it with literally any offering/addon you don't use boo hoo again we can simply do something about the bloodweb removing mori's from them doesn't solve the issue and can't be used to argue for mori's being base kit because they are not affecting how mori's are used in a match.
- We don't need to increase mori time and you just ignored my point, simply responding with BS doesn't make you right. provide better reasoning that goes off LOGIC not your opinion.
- we are talking about balance again responding doesn't make you right and that's off topic.
- you suck at killer then, i play R1 and have been in R1 for nearly 3 years. Saves are not possible unless your in the open and didn't check for survivors or multiple survivors are taking hits so the survivor wiggles out. hell if you down survivors by walls simple looking at the wall removes the chances of a FL save happening you didn't prove me wrong you just showed me how much you don't understand how this game works good job.
- I base that off the fact that simply reducing saves doesn't increase or influence how saves go in game. the two don't go hand in hand players will simply understand that they don't have a chance at saves for survivors on lost hook it won't affect how well saves go or how often they would occur
- I literally explained why they wouldn't see that much of a decrease as well as the fact that a perk not activating is MORE than worth it to kill a survivor. if you can't understand that you are either ignoring it or pulling a strawmans argument.
- they wont be afraid what the hell are you basing that logic on? o look at that i pulled the same thing you did expect it makes more sense because that is a opinion based off no facts and you have to assume that this game actually scares people are for players that are good the only times you get scared is when the killer jump scares you. what do you think will happen this? "OMG IM ON LAST HOOK THE KILLER IS AFTER ME AAAAAAAH" no players are pretty calm when they understand whats happening.
- Yeah no again you just pulled a strawmans argument. you didn't prove me wrong or provide reasoning you just said "no"".
You didn't address my points and are calling me biased when you are the most biased on here because you don't care what happens on the survivor side of things. you points suck and i disproved them with actual logic based of reasoning you don't do that and if you continue doing that then this is no different than talking to a child who can't understand why he can't have something so he continues throwing a fit.
Again it is obvious that the change the devs made to mori's is better than the problematic solution you want, you call me biased but you fail to understand what your idea would do to this game so even if i was majorly based i still have a better point because i understand the game better than you and have provided reasoning that proves that.
what is your profile? show me your not bs'ing
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@Greatamygdala said:
How hard is it to code that you just have to change hatch spawn requirements from instead of 3 survivors/1 generator it only spawn when there's one survivor left then go from there for future updates.
I'll take 1 potential survivor escaping over two or three.
That is lazy and unlike mori's there are plenty of things they can do to balance keys, making it more fair when opening the hatch, giving keys an addon pass, and making them more useful in other areas besides just the hatch are all likely things that the devs are currently working on.
The issue with keys was never that they allowed survivors to escape early the issue was how it was implemented. There is no interaction between the killer and a survivor opening the hatch if they made it so there was and introduced a good way to alert the killer of the hatch being opened keys could be balanced.
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i made a post yesterday about this very thing, the devs took the BEST route to this nerf, was it simple yes, was it disappointing yes, was it a straight nerf yes and that is what they needed mori's impacted games too much. The only flaws this nerf has is how simple it is and that it is a straight nerf and neither of those are actually flaws since the intent was to nerf mori's.
People are complaining left and right or saying how X idea would be better yet they can't show the idea they just say a vague version of it while ignoring it's problems. The worst of them all simply know exactly what they want but don't care about how abusable or problematic it is, basically saying "I don't care what happens, make it work!".
Also all the players saying "mori's are useless" are power hungry, they still allow you to tunnel and ignore saving mechanics it's just now only limited to last hook. that is still helpful and strong yet these players expected mori's to still work mid game and win them matches, like what were you expecting a nef is a nerf the devs were not going to use a problematic solution like having to hook all survivors over a simple flawless solution of having survivor mori-able off last hook.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1809909#Comment_1809909
Would it affect killers across the board? Sure, but is it really a significant buff? I think the trade offs match the advantages and Pyramid head as you mentioned is a prime example of that.
- Gives Killers more options.
- Removes additional clutter on the bloodwebs (now can we please get rid of the hazy and murky reagents on killers?)
- Could potentially cause more tunneling....
- But would also reduce slugging.
- Gives bEhavior more stuff to sell. It wouldn't be long until mori animations made it into the store and were selectable in customize.
- Puts a hard limit on last min saves with flashlight, body blocking, DS & pallets. Nerf to SWF teams specifically.
- This means more saves will be attempted for survivors on 2nd hook phase helping slow down the mid game.
- Reduces usefulness of all hook based perks, most notably meta perks such as BBQ and chili & pop. Blood warden would see less usage as well as minor impacts for carrying perks such as mad grit, iron grab & agitation and aura reading/denying perks.
- Helps increase fear of killers during the endgame.
- Limits the killer on closing the hatch and gives survivor the advantage of getting there first.
It sounds to me as if your biggest contention against this is how it impacts DS. You are either in the camp that DS is in a good state right now or you're not. I'm obviously in the latter as it gets abused far too frequently in red ranks. Sounds like you're in the former, fair enough. After all the nerfs killers have suffered over the last two years it's only reasonable they receive a mild, overall buff. Additionally, the animation locks could be increased with more unique and interesting animations if it were really warranted to give survivors more time to be productive.
Dude you're ignoring literally everything i said and including things in that list i already addressed. Also no your wrong, it is possible to actually not be a biased idiot and see the actual problem with the perk which is what i already explained. If you think all killers need a unhealthy buff i don't know what to say other than i hope you don't become part of a balance team and when discussing balance you don't include things that don't belong in that topic such as cosmetics which is what different mori animations would fall into.
If you can't explain things properly and want to make a list of points here is all those points flaw's. If we compare that to the simple mori nerf we got it's clear that it was not only better balance wise but also it didn't introduce any problems and having mori's basekit is nothing but a LIST of problems. Your right killers need buffs but if you seriously think the way to do that is to make tunneling easier is not the way to go, buffs should be per killer the only buff that should be across the board right now is something to slow the beginning of the game or small changes like how they increased pallet break speed.
- Killers have the same amount of options if they use a Mori and the only options that get introduced are tunneling options
- It won't affect blood webs that noticeably, go look at my post response i already disproved this and pointed out how stupid that is as using it as a point for mori's to be basekit.
- Obviously it's increases tunneling and that is NOT what the game needs, doesn't matter how you play it's the same argument as someone not abusing old mori's just because you don't doesn't mean others won't.
- yeah reduces slugging by killing survivors which is NOT a trade why do you think slugging exists its to help kill survivors. Your literally just buffing killings mate.
- LOL devs won't do that you just included BS in that list and this is about balance not about cosmetics
- Saves are extremely easy to avoid as killer and if they try it and fail they are wasting their time and you are getting into a chase faster. Only bad killers complain about SWF saves.
- Yeah that isn't likely, sure it will slightly affect how intense players will try but the impact as said won't be much. People don't even attempt saves unless nearby and only idiots follow the killer around doing nothing until that survivor goes down.
- BRUH you just complained about swf and now your complaining about perks that are not a problem, also it wont reduce them your wrong. If a player doesn't tunnel and they get a survivor on death hook they will use the hook, Mori's will be used for tunneling by avoiding save chances with any in game mechanic. Also getting a kill earlier is not equal to not being able to use a perk, it is always better to have a easier kill.
- That is unrelated to balance again you just added filler.
- It doesn't limit closing the hatch how TF does it??????? if anything it buffs the killer since they can mori survivors on the hatch and if a survivor is escaping by hatch they are not doing gens so the killer can wait off DS and hook that person or carry them to hatch and mori them. You don't understand how things impact games do you.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/212346/the-reason-the-mori-nerf-was-so-simple
You put more thought and time into your post then they did coding the change to mori's. Tell me why, specifically, you think adding basekit mori's after 2nd hook would make killer's unbalanced. I'd really like to hear a thought out argument against that.
The upside to mori on third hook is it limits decisive strike, a reasonable nerf to DS is something that all killer mains have been asking for. The down side to not hooking on third is you don't gain the aura from BBQ. One final upside, perhaps the biggest, making mori's base kit so killers are no longer blocked on the blood web by being forced to buy offerings they don't want to use. Sounds pretty damn fair and a positive change to me.
If mori's are basekit it would affect killers across the board, as you know the devs won't limit a base game mechanic from a character because it would be too good for them which means god nurses, spirits, or whatever killer you hate/ is strong will have access to them. Now they are strong because as i said idk how many times it cuts save opportunities by a third and allows for easier tunneling. Say what you want but that is a simple truth and we do not need to do that simply because DS exists which btw isn't a problem at least in terms of how it directly interacts with the killer. As for perk interaction it is very much worth it to bypass DS and potential saves to not have a hook perk activate, unless you are wasting time slugging until it is safe to pick them up you wouldn't be able to use the hook anyway and whatever gen you could have protected will get done.
DS is meant to hinder tunneling and is effective at it, take a look at how a good player uses PH's final judgement ability and why it is considered very useful. That ability lets you kill off a survivor on their last hook and ignores DS that alone makes it good, it doesn't matter if it would be faster to use a hook with DS you can't use a hook if you tunnel anyway but mori's and final judgement bypass that.
DS is fair with it's interaction with the killer yes even if used with lockers, your taking that stun you could have avoided and even if it is used in EGC you should have went for the savior. the problem with DS is that you can work on gens with it active and have a minute of immunity with UB, DS itself isn't problematic in any other area and is very avoidable by simply not tunneling and applying pressure on healthy survivors. The devs can change DS itself to make it more fair they don't have to nor does it need it's amount of times it can be activated reduced by a third.
We don't need to encourage or even give all killers the ability to tunnel freely. Mori's are still useful whether you acknowledge that or not is irrelevant, the only way that it would be fair if basekit would be if the survivor couldn't be mori'd right away after they get off 2nd hook but that would make them even weaker than the current version so they might as well stay as they are.
As for the blood web that is not a problem and honestly needs to be addressed separately like do you really think removing mori's from them will make that much of a difference?, i don't use map offerings or bad addons/perks yet i get them constantly does that mean they should not be in the game? Obviously no, your opinion on mori's don't represent everyone and neither does mine but at least mine uses good logic that shows why mori's wouldn't be basekit. Your logic is simply "No they would be fine" without taking reality into account or providing good reasoning why. we have had this discussion before in other posts.
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@Melted_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805242#Comment_1805242
keys and the many multiple strong survivor perks aren't game breaking to you? because to me and most others, they are. I agree with the mori nerf, but they should've nerfed both moris and keys and stuff all at the same time. what the devs are doing is good, the pattern they're following, isn't.
never said they were not a problem, im VERY aware of the impact keys have on a match and how meta perks can influence games.
The mori nerf was simple, however they are basically reworking keys if you have looked at the mod responses and that would take way longer. i personally am fine with waiting for keys to be nerfed/reworked after mori's because now games are less busted and i can use mori's without feeling like a dick.
sure key usage will increase but you can just lobby dodge and while last second switching is a thing it isn't too common for it to be a major nuisance.
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It's not impossible to catch the survivor since it's so long and not very curved meaning a few killers can deal with it but it is pretty dumb.
Like if you break the breakable wall to the left of that window it does nothing you actually save time vaulting it due to how the loop works which is the survivor uses both windows to rotate around the building.
They should switch the window and breakable wall positions in my opinion so it's harder to effectively use it and so the wall is worth breaking because as it is the survivors are lined up to use both windows.
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- make it so when you hold a survivor in a locker with victor or hit a healthy survivor with him you don't suffer from the slow down of "waking-up"
- Remove the stupid camera lock from waking up
- when victor is on a survivor their aura is revealed and it starts right away.
I believe that is the minimum they should get.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807930#Comment_1807930
How would you feel about changing keys such that they just allow one person to escape? In other words, if you use a key, the hatch opens and then shuts right behind you. That way you couldn't really exploit it in a SWF and would pretty much only be useful in an EGC/closed hatch scenario. If one survivor with a key uses it before then, they'd probably doom their remaining team members.
I think this would be decent from a balance perspective, but I'm curious how this would impact the "Where did they go?!" achievement. So long as that's possible to get with four keys I think this is okay. Still easier than "From the void she kills".
I think keys need this kind of change, just read the first part no need to read my whole rework. What it needs is for the killer to be able to stop and find hatch anything resembling instant escapes are unfair and as for your question i would be against it since it screws the other survivors and if it starts EGC it will be broken still since they just bypassed the gens and if there are still 2 in a trial at least 1 will escape.
@AChaoticKiller said:
Hatch mechanic changes
Hatch now takes 12 seconds to unlock with the dull key and skeleton key, when unlocking the hatch all players will hear it within 32 meters as a directional constant audio. The killer can grab a survivor unlocking the hatch and progress on unlocking the hatch does not save. The player that unlocks the hatch will not immediately escape through the hatch. Progress on opening the hatch does not affect keys however successfully opening the hatch will consume it.
New key mechanic
All keys can now quickly open chests at the cost of 10 seconds of use from the key, this animation takes 2 seconds.
Key changes
- Broken key is replaced with unique key, the unique key has a different look then the dull or skeleton key.
- A deactivated key cannot open black locks.
unique key: A small key crafted to unlock a specific type of lock, vibrating with power. The keys power cannot be triggered by itself. Various objects can be attached to its jump ring, which channels the keys power into various effects.
- 20 seconds of use
- can be used to quickly open chests
Dull key: A dull key that once held great power. The keys power cannot be triggered by itself. Various objects can be attached to its jump ring, which channels the keys power into various effects.
- 20 seconds of use
- can be used to quickly open chests at the cost of the keys power.
- Can be used to open black locks and is consumed when successful.
- Deactivates upon getting interrupted or stopping the progress on opening the black lock.
Skeleton key: A tarnished and crooked key, vibrating with ominous power. The keys power cannot be triggered by itself. Various objects can be attached to its jump ring, which channels the keys power into various effects.
- 30 seconds of use.
- can be used to quickly open a chest at the cost of the keys power.
- Can be used to open black locks and is consumed when successful.
Addons
The following addons are unchanged; Weaved ring, milky glass, gold token, prayer beads, prayer rope, erode token.
ultra rare addons;
Ominous Locket: a small locket with a faded picture of someone's family, written in blood are the words "I'll make it back, no matter what" across the picture. The powerful feelings in it become your own when opening a black lock.
- Decreases the time it takes to open a black lock by 4 seconds
- when you start unlocking a black lock the killer is alerted to your location
- You cannot stop the unlock interaction unless interrupted by the killer.
- Once the black lock is opened you escape through the hatch.
Very rare addons;
Blood amber:
- Reveals the killers aura when within a 32 meter range
- reduces key usage by 10 seconds.
Unique wedding ring:
- reveals the obsessions aura to all survivors.
- Decreases your chance to be the obsession.
- Stacks.
Rare addons;
lock trinket: A small lock that is difficult to pry open, but not impossible. The key's power has no effect on it but instead conserves the keys power when used rashly.
- When the key is used to open a chest, instead of losing some of the keys power this addon is consumed.
paper note: A small note that is unreadable, focusing on it awakens unfamiliar memories. Can be attached to the key using its jump ring to channel the keys aura reading ability.
- reveals item and chest aura's within 32 meters of you.
Luck charm: a small wooden charm that has been carved from a branch with the word "Luck" engraved on it. The key's power has no effect on it directly, instead the charm channels it into something else.
- greatly increases the chance for a higher rarity item when using the key to unlock a chest.
- deactivates the key when the key unlocks a chest.
uncommon addons;
glass diamond earring: A cheap earring with see through glass diamonds. channeling the key's power though it makes you feel faint and disconnected.
- when using the key your aura is hidden from all players.
- decreases key usage by 10 seconds.
Scratched pearl:
- decreases the sound of opening the hatch by 8 meters
Common addons;
rusted lock: a small rusted lock easily opened with force, it can no longer accomplish its original purpose. The key's power doesn't affect it directly, instead it amplifies the sound of unlocking locks through this trinket.
- when using the key to open a chest the killer receives a noise notification
- you leave no scratch marks after opening a chest with a key for 5 seconds.
Perk changes
Left behind: decreases time it takes to open the hatch by 4 seconds with a key when your the last survivor alive.
Ace in a hole, plunderer, and pharmacy now work when a key is used to open a chest.
Hoarder: If a survivor tries to open a chest with a key instead that key gets deactivated.
Edit: also obviously any values can be changed if needed but i think im close to it being pretty fair at least when it comes to opening the hatch.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808660#Comment_1808660
My suggestion was as follows:
Red Mori
4 Hook = 1 Mori unlocked. *It can be used on anyone whether they have been hooked or not.
*Each additional Hook unlocks one more Mori. This would encourage Survivors to make the shoulder saves (sabotage, flashlights, pallets, etc.) because preventing hooks also protects them.
Green Mori
4 Hooks unlocks the single Mori. *I can be used on anyone whether they have been hooked or not. Again, this would encourage saves.
Yellow Mori
It stays the same way as it is now.
This method, while certainly not as EASY as swapping a (1) for a (2) would have been dynamic, balanced the Mori, and encouraged more interactive play. It would not have invalidated all the BP spent on the various Mori over time. You will note that my method requires only one less Hook than the current one.
That makes it less fair per individual and it can be used unfairly such as getting 2 survivors on death hook before killing a survivor you haven't hooked yet. Also it's not hard to avoid saves as the killer it will just result in the killer getting into another chase faster.
We don't need to encourage saves that are impossible to pull off most of the time against a good killer anyway without throwing the match. Also compared to the simple boring nerf the devs gave us your idea has too many flaws and it wouldn't be likely to be used since it isn't fair per individual and is more complex than the devs would be willing to add since they want offerings to be simple.
Like i said i haven't seen a creative suggestion without flaws, the mori nerf the devs gave us has no flaws it's just a straight up nerf which is what mori's needed.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808660#Comment_1808660
Its not just boring, it makes it a worthless offering. And there is a great suggestion of requiring every survivor to have been hooked once, and then the more will be activated, or at least get a charge. That seems fine to me, doesn't encourage tunneling, and keeps the offering worthwhile.
There are problems with that. The first is that it can be under the survivors control by having one hide more and play safe as they do gens, also against good swf's it's actually not uncommon to not see one of the survivors until the near end of the game. Meanwhile if the killer is good and the survivors can't keep up the killer can get the mori very easy which makes it no different then if it wasn't nerfed in the first pace. Remember Mori's needed a nerf not a restriction that situationally is either too easy to overcome or you wont be able to overcome it because a survivor is trying harder to stay out of the way and in a swf that is pretty easy to do when you know where the killer is.
Again the simply and boring nerf the devs went with was the best one. it didn't introduce any exploitations for either side, made it more fair per individual, and nerfed it in a meaningful way that helped the health of the game.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808507#Comment_1808507
I would be fine if both where removed and Mori's just became part of base killer kit the way they are now. (Since they offer very very very few mechanical benefits, which makes them worthless.)
dude that would literally take away a 1/3 of all save opportunities survivors have, i don't think you understand how much of a buff that would be to killers across the board which isn't needed. Killer buffs should be per individual killer unless it's regarding early gen times.
it also buffs tunneling/proxy camping which was what mori's and PH are currently good at. It's just not good for balance or game health.
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@Dehitay said:
There were so many better options. This was the laziest thing they could have done. While it's better now than it used to be, what's utterly ridiculous is the rarity of an offering that has been reduced to an aesthetic. If it's not actually going to help, then the rarities should be brown, yellow, and green.
provide one
I haven't seen a single suggestion that is as fair as simply increasing the amount of hooks needed.
is it boring? yes, would i want something else if it was better of course but so far i haven't seen such a idea in all my time in these forums.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1808105#Comment_1808105
It's a google search of the forums specifically. I don't have control of the weird way the forums show hyperlinks but the point remains there have been 1000's of suggestions. My suggestion is to refund killers for all the mori's and remove them completely. Add mori animation as an option for killers after second hook as basekit across the board. Doing this is also a reasonable solution to decisive strike.
If you seriously think mori's need to be basekit and that DS is a problem because it prevents tunneling I can't take you seriously. Killers don't need a buff across the board that encourages tunneling and makes strong killers even stronger such as spirit. Any player that understands high level play knows that the problem is with gen speed combined with DS being a safe net as you do gens both of which can be addressed without doing something as stupid as making mori's basekit.
The only problem with DS is it's interaction with UB and when you do a gen with it's active. The perk is meant to prevent tunneling if you got stunned too bad it's meant to do that. Simply making the perk deactivate when you repair a gen would solve the main issue with DS and make it so survivors have to choose to either recover or risk getting hooked again when near a gen with decent progress.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
Charge your lunge a little before landing your blink.
I wouldn't recommend this unless you know you won't land on top of them since if you start charging you can't lunge.
On console if you land on top of a survivor and try blinking on them again it is extremely hard and disorienting at times.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807575#Comment_1807575
I literally sent you a link in my post.
OMG you just googled it XD
Literally the first one is MY idea for mori's that i'm aware isn't good because there isn't a good time for when mori's should activate because of the existence of SWF.
You didn't do any research and since your refuting me i don't have to, all you did was go to google and typed how to fix mori's and this sites name. as said do your own research and from the ones i looked at they weren't good, they are exploitable, or they are literally the same thing the devs have just done.
edit: also you can't tell there is a link in that text very well, its better to just have a URL out in the open unless it is very clear that there is a link attached like this <insert URL into text>
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@supersonic853 said:
I personally just liked the idea of you have to hook every survivor once since itd kill tunnel mori for the most part. This just makes the survivor get tunneled longer in my opinion. But yeah agreed i wont fully weigh in until we see what they do with keys. If they "kill" moris but like slap on the whrist keys then yeah. Also mori basekit was already tested with ph.
That is his power that has to have a survivor inflected with torment and it is already a strat to not use cages so you can kill them quickly with the mori by tunneling them off hook. He kinda shows why they shouldn't be base kit if anything, like imagine a mobility killer doing that or just do it yourself it would be awful/is awful.
As for that idea it is both exploitable by survivors and in part the killer. A single survivor can hide or play safe all game and good swf's apply so much pressure that you often won't see one of the survivors until late into the game. meanwhile a good killer against mediocre or even decent survivors can get the mori to activate a lot quicker. there is a disparity between solo's and swf as well as exploitation for the survivors.
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807963#Comment_1807963
I dont want to space it like this, the forum/website does this automatically for me
^see? thats just me pressing enter one time, it leaves this ugly open line and idk why or what I can do about it, asked about this a long time ago but nobody helped me (browser does not matter)
you don't press enter that creates that space. just continue you sentence like this there isn't a way to cut of a sentence or paragraph
without that ^ happening. If your trying to compress the lines on top of another to get rid of that space that isn't supported here.
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That has always been the case...
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I mean i wouldn't mind cypress being base kit since the only time a survivor would escape with it anyway would be because of DS but can i just say... you really don't need to space your post like that. It makes it hard to read and to be honest just looking at it made me want to skip this post.
Other than that yeah players shouldn't have any issues with this nerf it was a long time coming. The only thing they can complain about is how uncreative it was but there wasn't really a better change out there.
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Bye
they won't split the community with a more broken game mode nor will they differentiate solo's from SWF's, the best you can hope for is more BP for playing against them and even then i don't think that will happen.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Agreed with all you said. Mori's were way too strong. And in the hands of a good killer, absolutely devastating to go against. If there are other strong perks in the game, slugging, and tunneling you would be lucky to get anymore than 5k BP for a match and back into waiting 5-10 minutes in survivor queue depending on your region.
I'm glad BHVR listened. Many of us wanted this change for all Mori's to be death hook. The only change I'd make now would be to remove Cypress and make that base kit for all killers.
Survivor side, Keys do need to be dealt with next they are also strong especially in SWF. The only balance I could see them doing would be to re-open closed hatches and maybe open hatch only when all gens are completed. If they removed the ability to open hatch altogether with a key, I'd be fine with that since the keys do have some aura reading which is fun to use.
yeah cypress being base kit is the only base kit mori i would accept, there are very few situations where you wouldn't have escaped if it was base kit and i'm pretty sure they all involve DS.
I disagree in keys tho when it comes to your proposed changes and from the mod responses mentioning animations as a reason it will take longer for a key rework to release im pretty sure they will make hatch require time to open. Keys/hatch are not like mori's the devs can be complicated when it comes to changing them since it involves an escape route and in game interactions. Also making it so once hatch is opened it can be reopened would cause a lot of problems since the killer wouldn't risk leaving it.
Like keys can be balanced and allow survivors to escape before all gens get done, there are plenty of idea's out there for it and the devs could completely rework keys as they do it (which is what i'm expecting). All we have to hope for is that it is actually balanced.
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All these people saying they are useless because they no longer can use them to turn losing games into winning ones when they fell like it.
Even if it is only on death hook mori's are still good, it's like having an extra perk that says "ignore any perk/item/game interactions and kill downed survivors on death hook". that is more impactful in a match than any other offering unless you count map offerings which can conflict with each other.
A nerf is a nerf if you seriously expected them to still be around as strong as they were your delusional, nothing needs to be that strong same thing with keys which are in due time soon.
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@Mozzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807256#Comment_1807256
For the last four years people have shared idea's on these forums for fixing mori's. If you think I'm blowing smoke go through it for yourself. The developers simply do not listen to community suggestions. For a company pulling in $100 million in a year I expect better.
It would take a lot of time to do that and the forums search feature isn't the best, if you want to prove me wrong show me a good rework or nerf that can't be exploited, is fair and truly nerfs mori's, and isn't complex. I claimed that no rework idea that has been presented was good enough for the game and as we see the devs settled on a simple yet acceptable nerf, it's on you to prove me wrong not tell me to go look into something i have kept an eye on since getting into these forums.
I browse the feedback section all the time, not once have i seen a good rework or nerf suggestion for mori's, out of all of them making it so they are only killable on last hook was acceptable and even then i didn't really care for it and hoped for something better. Anyone that has been on the forums and looks into balance posts knows that for mori's a nerf that everyone could agree with and was balanced was pretty hard to come up with.
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I also think this is the best change they could make while keeping it simple. Mori's are also very strong so if anyone thought that they would even have a similar strength after a nerf sorry but that isn't what the game needs. This is a mori nerf what the hell were you expecting.
Like you see all these people complaining about it but they can't give a better idea that has as few flaws as simply increasing the number of hooks needed to mori someone. Pretty much all mori ideas that try to deviate from being basic have a flaw of some sort.
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I disagree it depended on the key user and if a swf was involved.
A good swf will get at least 3 gens done maybe 4 on a losing game before they split up, find hatch, then 2-3 escape.
Sure most of the time mori's are stronger but in competitive situations key's force the killer to lose.
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I like this but i think it could be better specifically using charges to open the hatch, that makes it so keys are still only used for the hatch and doesn't introduce a good means to deviate from meta addons.
I think the aura and notification is too much tho, i like my idea of finding the hatch/ player opening it check it out. I go into great detail to try to cover everything regarding the hatch/keys.
@AChaoticKiller said:
Hatch mechanic changes
Hatch now takes 12 seconds to unlock with the dull key and skeleton key, when unlocking the hatch all players will hear it within 32 meters as a directional constant audio. The killer can grab a survivor unlocking the hatch and progress on unlocking the hatch does not save. The player that unlocks the hatch will not immediately escape through the hatch. Progress on opening the hatch does not affect keys however successfully opening the hatch will consume it.
New key mechanic
All keys can now quickly open chests at the cost of 10 seconds of use from the key, this animation takes 2 seconds.
Key changes
- Broken key is replaced with unique key, the unique key has a different look then the dull or skeleton key.
- A deactivated key cannot open black locks.
unique key: A small key crafted to unlock a specific type of lock, vibrating with power. The keys power cannot be triggered by itself. Various objects can be attached to its jump ring, which channels the keys power into various effects.
- 20 seconds of use
- can be used to quickly open chests
Dull key: A dull key that once held great power. The keys power cannot be triggered by itself. Various objects can be attached to its jump ring, which channels the keys power into various effects.
- 20 seconds of use
- can be used to quickly open chests at the cost of the keys power.
- Can be used to open black locks and is consumed when successful.
- Deactivates upon getting interrupted or stopping the progress on opening the black lock.
Skeleton key: A tarnished and crooked key, vibrating with ominous power. The keys power cannot be triggered by itself. Various objects can be attached to its jump ring, which channels the keys power into various effects.
- 30 seconds of use.
- can be used to quickly open a chest at the cost of the keys power.
- Can be used to open black locks and is consumed when successful.
Addons
The following addons are unchanged; Weaved ring, milky glass, gold token, prayer beads, prayer rope, erode token.
ultra rare addons;
Ominous Locket: a small locket with a faded picture of someone's family, written in blood are the words "I'll make it back, no matter what" across the picture. The powerful feelings in it become your own when opening a black lock.
- Decreases the time it takes to open a black lock by 4 seconds
- when you start unlocking a black lock the killer is alerted to your location
- You cannot stop the unlock interaction unless interrupted by the killer.
- Once the black lock is opened you escape through the hatch.
Very rare addons;
Blood amber:
- Reveals the killers aura when within a 32 meter range
- reduces key usage by 10 seconds.
Unique wedding ring:
- reveals the obsessions aura to all survivors.
- Decreases your chance to be the obsession.
- Stacks.
Rare addons;
lock trinket: A small lock that is difficult to pry open, but not impossible. The key's power has no effect on it but instead conserves the keys power when used rashly.
- When the key is used to open a chest, instead of losing some of the keys power this addon is consumed.
paper note: A small note that is unreadable, focusing on it awakens unfamiliar memories. Can be attached to the key using its jump ring to channel the keys aura reading ability.
- reveals item and chest aura's within 32 meters of you.
Luck charm: a small wooden charm that has been carved from a branch with the word "Luck" engraved on it. The key's power has no effect on it directly, instead the charm channels it into something else.
- greatly increases the chance for a higher rarity item when using the key to unlock a chest.
- deactivates the key when the key unlocks a chest.
uncommon addons;
glass diamond earring: A cheap earring with see through glass diamonds. channeling the key's power though it makes you feel faint and disconnected.
- when using the key your aura is hidden from all players.
- decreases key usage by 10 seconds.
Scratched pearl:
- decreases the sound of opening the hatch by 8 meters
Common addons;
rusted lock: a small rusted lock easily opened with force, it can no longer accomplish its original purpose. The key's power doesn't affect it directly, instead it amplifies the sound of unlocking locks through this trinket.
- when using the key to open a chest the killer receives a noise notification
- you leave no scratch marks after opening a chest with a key for 5 seconds.
Perk changes
Left behind: decreases time it takes to open the hatch by 4 seconds with a key when your the last survivor alive.
Ace in a hole, plunderer, and pharmacy now work when a key is used to open a chest.
Hoarder: If a survivor tries to open a chest with a key instead that key gets deactivated.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805900#Comment_1805900
Moreover likely im realistic and your the biased one..good day
makes claims with no reasoning
acts biased
doesn't acknowledge faults to the idea
if your a troll good job otherwise that's one warped mindset.
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@Zaytex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805838#Comment_1805838
But, you're at least working on it, right?
they are a lot of key responses from mods mention animations, addons, and such as to why keys are taking longer to change then mori's.
while it may be awhile they are definitely working on a key rework.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805841#Comment_1805841
My friend id wager i can play adequately, I've maxed every killer and play survivor just as much ..im more qualified than many other players to speak on these things
then your biased and it has affected your judgement. what you want as said cuts all forms of saves disregarding BT by a third.
Funny i also have all my killers except the twins at P3 lvl 50, however that doesn't mean i have more say it just means i'm more aware of what impacts that would have to the game. I try my best not to be biased but obviously you're not.
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@GeordieKiller said:
Anyway to get the devs to respond? even if it just a brief post or message this is getting really heated and it can help smooth things abit
sometimes one of them comment on a popular or interesting post but no we have no good way to talk to them. you can always give them info or suggestions but getting actual info like what i'm asking is almost impossible unless they want to provide it and that's usually done in streams.
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Nope, you now need to hook them twice to mori them.
I don't know about other players but i might start using them more. I always felt bad for using them because i could just say "screw it" and turn the game around and that option was always tempting to do.
At least now they are more fair but still strong, you still take away any chance for a save after you down them on death hook and you usaully save time by killing them right there.