Reworking keys!
Now that moris have been dealt with (in the exact way I have been hoping they would), let's talk keys! Here is my suggestion for how to change the keys:
- Broken Key: 10 seconds of use.
- Dull Key: 20 seconds of use. Charge can be consumed to fill the unlocking meter and open black locks; the killer sees your aura and receives a loud noise notification during this time, and canceling or being interrupted will reset the lock-opening meter.
- Skeleton Key: 30 seconds of use. Charge can be consumed to fill the unlocking meter and open black locks; the killer sees your aura and receives a loud noise notification during this time, and canceling or being interrupted will reset the lock-opening meter.
To be clear, this would add an unlocking meter to the hatch, similar to the door.
This adds an element of risk and planning to opening the hatch, instead of just making it a one-button escape. The killer has time to respond, and now knows exactly where the hatch is; it forces you to make sure the killer is distracted first, and you must commit to the hatch-opening once you've started, or lose your chance. It would definitely make keys a lot weaker on small maps. I definitely think -- especially with the new hatch offerings -- that there needs to be some sort of delayed-open addition to the key, to give the killer a chance to stop you.
Key add-ons, I think, could mostly stand as-is. This would make the key itself a trade-off, in terms of deciding how you want to use it -- do you spend charge for the various aura-reading abilities, or do you save it for the hatch? There would need to be some careful balancing around how much charge is needed to open the hatch, etc. so this becomes a real choice.
Comments
Peanits confirmed the key changes are on the way. They're not out now because the changes are more complex than the mori changes but whatever the devs planned for keys is already in the pipeline.
I'll believe that when I see it. They're saying moris were easier because that just necessitated a parameter change, but hey it only took four years. Until then, I will err on the side of assuming it will be productive to throw out ideas.
The Entity should also create a giant, flashing neon arrow pointing to the hatch and the killer should be able to fly. And if the survivor stops the unlocking action they will be put on a matchmaking cooldown for 24 hours.
Love the idea. The only change I'd suggest is the killer can't see your aura plus the noise notification. Maybe make the aura reading being near the hatch a new killer teachable down the road.
Keys are too strong. What I am suggesting here is probably not the only creative solution, but they need some sort of change. The new hatch offerings make them even stronger than they already were. The mori change was badly needed, and keys are the flip side of that awful-OP-item coin.
It didn't take them four years to change the parameter. It just took them four years to eventually review moris in depth, look at the various options they had, and decide that changing the number of hooks was the way they wanted to proceed. Once they decided that was what they wanted it probably only took them a month to get it through the testing pipeline.
Whatever they're planning for keys probably involves something more intricate, and thus more testing and development than the mori change. (And no, they don't need to release both simultaneously, these are separate features, there's no particular reason they should hold off on releasing mori changes that are ready now.)
But hey, you want to waste time throwing out ideas without knowing even what the new keys are going to do go ahead.
I think the killer would need some sort of clear tip-off, because otherwise there's no counterplay. Think about how it is with doors currently; if the killer had no way of knowing where the doors are, or that survivors are in a position where they are able to open the doors, escape would be absolutely trivial. Without some sort of notification, it would just be a matter of filling a relatively quick meter, and that on its own wouldn't be enough.
Sorry, I didn't know forums were not meant to be used for having discussions about the game and throwing out ideas. You know, like the idea I've been talking about for a year, to make moris only work on survivors who have ben hooked twice!
Also, you are being awfully charitable to the developers with that timeline you've laid out. I've seen developers execute entire system redesigns on AAA titles in a matter of months; with moris in Dead by Daylight, we're talking about a couple of meetings, a little bit of use case testing, and what I have to imagine is a relatively small amount of code change for one class of item. If this kind of extremely specific thing is taking months to fully execute on, I assure you, that is not a realistic or defensible design pipeline.
just want to comment on the bit where you say they didnt need to release both at the same time as i disagree with that strongly
Mori and Keys in basic concept are the same they are designed to cut the games shorter than normal, regardless on how they cut games short they both do that. They are argubaly one of the most complained issues in the forums (both keys and moris) and it gets very heated at times.
so as you can see the responses to just the mori nerf and no key nerf has been very heated and made the devs look like they are survivor sided. This single sided changed would also have damage the killer community trust of the devs and that was already a fragile at the moment.
So you said theres no reason why they have to be together when actually if they released both mori and keys changes at the same time it would be recived more postivaility, build trusts, Make devs look less survivor sided and also less post on how devs always favour survivors etc
I understand the implications of keys taking longer than moris to get right, since if they introduce some redesigned keys and they screw it up, it's going to be bad in a whole different way.
Also, I think keys are a shade less pernicious than pre-patch moris (though the new hatch offerings make them really strong). And aside from that, one major improvement should not impede another major improvement. I'm just exasperated that it took/is taking this long.
Oh i agree with the keys taking longer have no issues with that totally understand my issue is the devs knowing how heated the key and mori debate is and how big of a change it will be to the game for either side plus how the community normally respond to a single change that just affect one side e.g. ruin it would be better if they done both at the same time to avoid this heated forum.
Oh love your key rework idea btw
Ya know... I give the developers a lot of flak for the things I think they have either botched or sat on for far too long, but I can't fault them for just pressing forward with things that need to be done, especially with the hard changes like this. There is no solution to the mori problem or the key problem, in any combination, that will not result in people here freaking out. It's just the nature of the beast, especially when it comes to really controversial mechanics like these.
And, given enough time, it all washes out anyway. Remember when they patched the survivors' insta-heal add-ons, and people thought it was the end of the world? Or, same for Hex: Ruin? Those were good, needed changes! And they worked out great in the long run, and now everyone has learned to live with them, and the game is better for it. This will all be the same way.
I like this but i think it could be better specifically using charges to open the hatch, that makes it so keys are still only used for the hatch and doesn't introduce a good means to deviate from meta addons.
I think the aura and notification is too much tho, i like my idea of finding the hatch/ player opening it check it out. I go into great detail to try to cover everything regarding the hatch/keys.
I didn’t say you’re not allowed to post your ideas, I implied you are wasting your time posting this idea because you don’t know at all what is coming down the pike soon on keys and whatever your idea is will probably be moot.
Since a fix for the Red moris was ready now, holding off on releasing it would just continue to irritate survivors who complain about that item and would do nothing one way or another to address issues with keys. There’s no good reason to hold off fixing something now that they can simply because another issue on the other side of the tracks is still present.
I like your ideas too!
My rationale for displaying the hatch-opener's aura to the killer is that I don't think a meter alone would introduce a significant enough opportunity for the killer to respond. If it's just a meter (and I figure this wouldn't take THAT long to fill), it wouldn't require much planning, and it would mostly just be a slightly delayed version of the current hatch mechanic. Showing the killer where you are (and where the hatch is) would introduce a big risk.
What I'm saying is, I'm not even convinced the developers have worked it out internally yet. I don't have any faith that there is a clear plan or roadmap in place, given how much time it takes for them to execute even on small changes. It's easy for them to say in a forum post that they're working on it, but the trajectory of most things of this nature, in this game, tells me it'll be like 2022 when they actually remake keys.
Also -- and not to harp on the idea too much that I've been suggesting this exact mori change for months -- some people on the forums do have strong balancing and design ideas, and if it helps inform Behaviour's brainstorming, why not? And even if not, it's still a fun exercise to figure out the possibilities for how to redesign something and make it better. That's not a waste of time in my book.
While I like the idea that keys should take time to open the lock, I don't like the idea of a full timer reset.
Most killers will drop the chase if hatch has spawned and they see the notification. I don't dislike the them being able to know when hatch is being opened; but with a full timer reset All he has to do is stop them once and bam key is useless as what it is. A key. Besides the fact that this also basically negates key add ons. Because why put an add on if you can't use it and open the hatch?
Keys main power has to be opening hatch. If they can't do that effectively then what's the point of them. I think they need two power bars. One for the ability and one for hatch. Skeleton key - 30 seconds power 15seconds hatch use.
Dull key- 15seconds of power 10seconds hatch use
Broken Key - 10seconds of power cannot open the hatch
Hatch timer takes 10 seconds to open if stopped timer regresses at a rate of 1-1
Killer receives loud notification and the auras of any Survivor's within 10 meters of hatch are revealed for 3 seconds.
They've already confirmed their changes to key are in testing. It won't be 2022, it will probably be the next mid-chapter patch.
Again I will believe it when I see it, but I fully welcome being made to eat my own words on this.
Chill bro, also it takes longer than a month for an idea to make it into a build, they've already said that.