The_C12H15NO2
The_C12H15NO2
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/371016/killers-are-overpowered
I wish complaints like this were not fabricated in falsehoods.
More Killer perks were nerfed in this update than Survivor. All three of the best Killer slowdowns were gutted.
Survivors lost... the most broken perk in the history of this game... and removed Circle of Healing's solo heal.
This. What was the last survivor perk to be nerfed, COH? And it was still showing up in every game. Probably DS makes the list but 3 sec stun is still very strong against tunnelling. Not to mention buffed base kit BT was added which means all us survivors who ran BT now have a freed up perk slot.
Killer perks are nerfed on the regular. NOED was broken and needed a rework instead of being nerfed into oblivion. Sadly hex perks are all dead now except maybe play thing.
While I feel the pain of solo q, the problem is killer players have been leaving. This means us lower MMR solo survivors are being matched against higher MMR killers. They play to win & steam roll low MMR teams.
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Thanks for sharing! I generally agree with your take on each update.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369411/pain-res-encouraged-chases-though
They nerfed it because it was popular.
I hate this so much.
I have been saying to encourage chases, that perks like Jolt, Pain Res and PoP are healthy for the game.
I said, pls buff pop.
But bhvr just needs to nerf because pick rate.
I wish they focused more on design philosophy and promoting fun gameplay loop.
Perks that are fun and make the game fun and promote healthy gameplay should just be left alone.
Pls, just have a vision for your game and perks instead of looking at numbers.
Pretty much this. It's sad the reasoning bhvr provided for the pain res nerf was "it's meta". it's a strong perk which rewards killers for hooks. the downside is the perk is RNG based on scourge hook locations.
Bhvr needs to stop nerfing meta perks which aren't OP. Instead, they should focus on buffing unused perks to provide players alternative builds and play styles.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368533#Comment_3368533
Didn't killers get basekit tier 1 brutal strength and 2 stacks of stbfl as default
No. It was 10% action speed buff which ended up being 0.25 seconds quicker. comparing the base buff to these action speeds to the perks is ridiculous.
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@Nazzzak said:
Eruption only really took off in the last few months. What did you do before then? There are many M1 killers that need some sort of rework, no doubt, but Eruption isn't the answer. Especially since we've known for several months that perk shake-ups are going to be the norm now.
Before eruption m1 killers had pop/pain res combo. The devs nerfed that combo which led to these killers moving over to eruption.
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This has been my experience for a while tbh. I die most of my survivor games b/c i play pretty altruistically. So my MMR is probably tanked meaning I get matched up with real bad teammates. So while I can have a good chase, my team does no gens or they do the wrong gens and we end up with a 3 gen. The killers i face generally seem to know what they're doing. this makes me think they are good killers who get knocked down in MMR b/c higher MMR survivors stomp them with gen speeds & pre-drop safe pallets.
IMO, the MMR needs to stop tracking only kills/escapes. The devs need to add other points in to actually factor skill not just a proxy. Or honestly, just drop the whole thing entirely and do a first in, first out match making.
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100%, poor map design is on par with MMR why killers choose to tunnel and camp. Since MMR says the only win is a kill, tunnelling just makes sense. But if the map has so many tiles with safe pallets, why go for chases?
I don't remember the streamer but like 3 years ago I saw a video which i still agree with. In the video, it was proposed to just remove all the safe tiles and redesign them to be close to a 50/50 mind game. This would mean smaller tiles but then the maps could have more tiles like this. This type of map idea makes the most sense to me if we want better chases for both sides.
Also some basic logic being added for the tile spawns would go a long way. Such as jungle gym tiles can't spawn with the window facing another strong tile such as the killer shack. That's just common sense.
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The snowmen gave an extra health state to survivors from almost all the killers. No way something meant to be fun should impact the gameplay like this. Have the snowmen for fun but not create an additional health state.
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This was predicted the moment bhvr announced base kit buffed BT. Which is why i was against the idea, b/c survivors would just start rushing in for unsafe unhooks right near the killer.
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Some good answers here but I'd stress a couple already mentioned. Even if you haven't played killer before, you have a starting MMR around 800 i think based on dev feedback. If you're playing during high survivor que times, your more likely to get matched with higher MMR survivors too. It never takes long as a killer to get matched against good survivors.
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I'm sure it'll end up being a new perk added to increase recovery time. BHVR loves to provide band-aid fixes in the form of perks.
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Love the data. Question, what do you think caused the win rate drop from 6.1 - 6.2?
I wish bhvr would allow swf indicators in end game screen so that can also be tracked and mapped up with data like this.
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Mostly chase builds. My guess is no one was on gens while 2 or 3 of the others were hovering around each other in chase. Survivors lose b/c they forget to do gens.
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While it wasn't perfect, emblem matchmaking was certainly better on the survivor side at least. my killer games aren't any different really. B/c current MMR only tracks escapes as "skill", i end up with worse & worse team mates in solo q b/c i play altruistically. So i escape somewhere around 1-2 times per 10 matches. And no, solo q does not need a buff. Bhvr needs to update the MMR so kills/escapes aren't considered the only win condition. Tunnel/camp gameplay wasn't nearly as bad before the MMR system was introduced.
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I was hoping for a Mori which can be earned somehow in game for all killers which work similar to PH or Sadako. But this system isn't good for a lot of reasons.
As a side note, in my opinion, they probably wanted to give base kit UB and just made this the excuse.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203950#Comment_3203950
That's not true. IIRC, Oni's lasts 45 seconds exactly and Myers' lasts 60 seconds base.
Plague has the same issue with Corrupt Purge, which is basekit 60s.
plus 45s you might slug all 4 and hook 1. then the other 3 are getting up.
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Quick & Quiet plus Head-on. B/c at this point, bhvr should just kick the killer players while we're down lol
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Holy F just run Distortion if Lethal Pursuer is meta. It's an amazing counter especially since the buff. Big baby wants perks nerfed instead of using obvious counter play.
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10 seconds is more than enough. The only reason to run the BT perk is to create a situation where you're freshly unhooked team mate can body block the killer to stop them from downing the unhooker.
As a person who normally plays solo q when i'm survivor, this is going to cause poor decision making on the behalf of other survivors. They have already been hook bombing in front of the killer (even if they aren't camping) with the 3 sec BT. Now with 10s it'll be worse. I want smarter team mates not lazy ones b/c of base buff BT.
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Fog Whisperer?
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Lol amazing post. Keep the PSAs coming
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His infection hits, either from his power or zombies, should not cause sprint burst. it's really a waste of time to infect someone then have to chase them for 2 more hits giving the survivor 3 sprint bursts. when i play nemesis, even if i win with 3k+, i rarely get past power stage 2 b/c it isn't worth hitting with his power too often.
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Blinks special attack is cool plus i wouldn't mind nerfing the distance add ons so they won't stack. A lot of her add ons just feel like memes and aren't worth running. her base power is fine.
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It's selfish for survivors to dc b/c they don't like playing against a specific killer. If you dc against nurse it tells me you have zero skill and want to just throw a pallet, tea bag, then run to the next pallet. Nurse makes us play a different way. Get good.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3151277#Comment_3151277
OP ran Brutal and Fire Up, and chose to mind-game all of their chases instead of just brute force through the map's resources.
Considering OP had 2 pallet gyms in excellent locations for creating dead zones, and the fact that the decision-making in this video was questionable at times, the criticism feels warranted.
This video isn't the smoking gun it wants to be.
My thoughts on map design aside, it doesn't appear in the video that OP knows how to force value out of their build--they definitely could have 4k'd this game.
Right, so play style aside, this means for the amount of safe tiles there are on maps that killers should just brute force as many as they need to for a down. Then hope 3 gens aren't done in the 1st chase. This in my opinion is a large part of what has led to the camp/tunnel strat being so prevalent lately. By the time a dead zone is created and you get a down, survivors have done like 2/3s of their objective.
Instead i would prefer to see smaller tiles which are mind-gameable to increase skilled play. B/c right now, as long as the rest of the team is doing gens, survivors can just throw a pallet against a killer then run to the next.
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Anyone who takes the time to point out all the mistakes made, no killer player is 100%. The point of the video is to showcase how many safe tiles there are which M1 killers have no mind game. This is also why so many higher mmr survivors complain about only seeing nurse and blights. I do refer to this as poor map design but it is technically poor tile design. Sadly, instead of addressing poor tile design, bhvr is making killers with anti loop abilities which just means the older killers are no longer viable.
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I guess define what a free escape vs free kill means?
If a killer can get a hook during EGC, i totally understand why basekit buff BT feels like a free escape when another survivor hook bombs to save them without any hook save perks equipped. If the killer doesn't have an instadown ability, they both get out. All survivors now have a free 5th perk slow which is stronger than old BT.
The only free kill scenario which comes to mind is if a survivor afk. Even potato survivors require some time spent in chase to down than hook. NOED maybe you can argue is a free kill? but NOED still requires getting the kill and it only guarantees you the one hit down. However, NOED is dead since the update. I've only seen it once since the patch in my survivor games. And it was found immediately.
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My guess is b/c old corrupt was being used in the majority of games. The devs have said in the past when they nerf a perk it's partially b/c it's used too often.
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The basekit buffs killer received weren't super impactful on the game. The DS nerf from 5s to 3s stun and DH change had the best impacts for the killer. Survivors received a lot of buffs to perks (which is fine btw i'm happy to see some meta change on the survivor side for once).
The last patch was more balanced i feel for both sides. But that being said, Scourge hooks have been the only recent positive change for killer gameplay in a long while. And even those are RNG. I understand killer complaints but this post is over-dramatic. I agree basekit buffed 10s plus haste BT is crap and shouldn't be a thing.
That being said, this just means as a killer i know everyone has BT so i will adjust my play accordingly vs just guessing before if the person unhooking had BT. When i play survivor i'll do the same, adjust my gameplay, now that i know i'll always have 10 seconds of haste and endurance.
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The issue to me is, bhvr set win conditions as escape/kill where previously the win condition was whatever we as players decided it to be. MMR needs to include more stats in it. kills/escapes are great stats to track. But they should not be the only stat tracked for matchmaking.
Camping/Tunneling amped up hard after mmr went live. clearly it's b/c bhvr set an official win condition and now the community acts surprised killers are doing what they need to do for kills over hooks.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3148067#Comment_3148067
My guess will be that my queue times will still be instant as Survivor during the whole 24 hours of a day. So the answer would be - still to many Killer players around to make the queue times bearable for Killers.
Currently Survivor Queues are still instant in the evening, which is the case since the Midchapter Patch dropped. So it was not a short period of time like some people said. And since the Change to 10 second Endurance does not do that much (since many were running OTR anyway), I guess there will still be way too many Killers around.
Even tho, strange why BHVR is still catering to them by nerfing Perks like Reassurance. They should realize that the people who are playing less are the Survivors.
(Even tho, MAYBE the Matchmaking Incentives might help the Killer Queues. But if those are on Survivor all the time, it should be pretty clear that they are the only reason why Killer Queues got better)
Do you normally play in EU? in NA where i play the evening has longer queue times for survivor. Clearly the last patch brought back more killer player b/c what was previously a 5 minute wait during peak survivor times, is now less than 1 minute.
To expand on my point, now that buffed BT is basekit, survivors can run something else besides OTR. I normally play solo q so i know it'll open up stronger builds for me since i no longer need to worry about unsafe unhooks. So, sure, i'm being a bit dramatic but we'll wait and see how this plays out. I expect the killer population to drop shortly after killer players get their Wesker fill.
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Alright, a 5th perk slot for survivors. Let's see how many killer players stick around after the Wesker excitement fades.
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To help solo survivors out, they need to add more categories into the MMR system. I solo q a lot and rarely swf. My survivor MMR rating is tanked b/c i die a ton due to my team not getting gens done, multiple players going for the unhook, any other number of things which were mentioned above.
The fact that MMR only tracks kills/escapes has ruined the experience for solo q and the casual killers. Even at the high end of MMR a lot of survivors complain that they only see Nurse or Blight when they play. MMR should be calculating all skill based stats instead of a "proxy" stat which "represents" skill.
What should have been designed is MMR starting as it is, then every month or so they add another stat to the calculation. Then give MMR some time to kick in and player base to adjust. Rinse & repeat until all the meaningful stats are included. It's always been a horrible idea to only look at kills/escapes to determine matchups.
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Her range add ons could use a pass but overall her power is fine. It's the range which makes her crazy strong. All of her other add ons are literally jokes.
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Yeah that map is poorly designed. each map iteration spawns at least 12 god pallets which you have to break as killer to continue chase. i'm sure that survivor was salty his team didn't finish the gens lol the game map is clearly easy af if the team is on gens while killers are busy kicking god pallets every 10 seconds.
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It's ok on Plague now b/c it "encourages" survivors to cleanse but that's it. Even on Legion it's lackluster. Rarely will all 4 survivors stay injured so killers won't get the 20% slow down. t's ok but there are better perks in my opinion all other killers can run in it's place for more value.
I agree with some previous comments, it was psychological. thana wasn't that bad and easily countered by just healing. which most survivors do anyway at the first opportunity.
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@madradfox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3110946#Comment_3110946
Your so-called "easy counter" translates into the 3 other survivors surrendering 10-15 game seconds, i.e. 30-45 effective generator-repair seconds - on every down. I would highly recommend thinking before speaking next time.
You still have rng scourge hooks which means the killer won't get a PR proc on every hook. Which means they won't get PR on every down as you say. If you have progress going on multiple gens, only one will be affected per PR proc. Lastly this incentivizes a killer trying to get hooks and leaving the hook to pressure gens to try to proc DMS. Meaning killers with this perk combo are less likely to camp the hook.
I have thought plenty on this. I highly recommend you try understanding how game mechanics work before responding.
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MMR is still random it seems. When i solo q i still get a lot of team mates who barely know how to stay on a gen. Honestly i blame streamers for this. Most streamers don't run information perks b/c they just know based on sound or some other que where the killer is and what they should be doing. So all these survivors don't equip any info perks, not even kindred, and then hide in a locker or just crouch somewhere as soon as they hear the TR. if you're solo, please run kindred or bond and OTR. it goes a long way.
My killer games are kinda similar. Some games i get teams who are clearly solo. While other games I face off against a swf squad who know which gens to push & stay positioned near safe loops.
Overall i'd say it's a better experience since the update on both sides. MMR needs help but i've had no issue adjusting my game play for the new updates.
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It's there to make you feel good when you give a thumbs up or whatever. BHVR only seems to care about people using "mean" words in chat. But not nearly as much effort into hackers or players who grief others in game or anything else considered reportable.
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LOL easy counter. Let go of the gen after you see the killer pick someone up to hook. scourge hooks are already rng based on the map. This is just a lazy complaint. simple counter. the killer won't know you're on this gen since they no longer get the noise notification and if you let go, they won't see dms activate. it's still a weaker combo than before with the counter play (which already existed) being better.
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Most of these changes are knee jerk reactions to complaints by survivors who don't want to deal with certain mechanics. self care didn't need a nerf. i can't remember the last time i've seen that perk used while playing survivor or killer. idk what data the devs reviewed to make this decision. if they are seeing it at high level like they said, i suggest that's b/c those are players who are hacking to add hidden perks onto their build.
long story short, the explanations for a lot of sudden changes don't match what is actually seen in the matches.
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i liked this patch overall. probably the best patch in all the years of dbd. The camping/tunneling increase is honestly b/c it's the best strategy for almost all killers. A majority of maps have so many strong pallets and insanely strong main buildings, it's a waste of killer time to go for chases.
When i que up in solo survivor, OTR and Kindred are a must have. the amount of solo's who don't run kindred amaze me. it tells you everything you need to know to be efficient.
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@DBD78 said:
I do think this is good though because now BHVR gets a lot of complaints from us solo survivors, so they kind of have to speed up changes for solo q. The killer buffs was needed, but doing them before solo buffs is strange.
If they buffed solo q before buffing killers, they would have lost more killer players. Which were already in a down trend. I was one of them, i haven't played killer in months b/c it was so bad. It's somewhat better now against solo q. But against swf it's the same.
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I can't agree more. I fought it for a while when i first played, wanting to camp/slug/tunnel. But going for hooks just ended with 4 teabags and clicking at the exit gates. I'm not even that high mmr as killer, the matchmaking has always matched average killers with higher skill survivors. Camping/tunnelling is way more consistent to secure at least a "draw" (2k). As stated in the original post, solid teams will just slam gens when they realize the killer is camping. which generally means 3 escape b/c it costs 1-2 gens to down the first survivor. the remaining 3 survivors can knock the last gens out before the hooked survivor dies (assuming they hit all the skill checks and don't rage quit).
All this to say, BT basekit was not needed. Survivors who don't know how to deal with camping killers just want to whine and not learn to play a different way.
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Spot on. Map & tile design are both the issue here. All the perk changes and anti-loop power creep killers lately are trying to band-aid fix poor map/tile deigns. I've posted it before on the forum but i'm a nobody so here are the ideas i like so far:
- Maps should all roughly be similar total size. Larger maps clearly favor survivors, while small maps favor killers. By total size i don't mean all maps should be the same cube shape. They can be different shapes & multi-level still but the total space should be similar.
- The amount of safe tiles need to be decreased and spaced apart. Create the right amount of distance between safe tiles so that it's a 50/50 if the survivor can make it to the next before being hit by the killer.
- Scrap all safe tiles and replace them with multiple "playable" tiles where the better mind game or real skill plays win the chase. Many tiles close together which are playable means it's a skill game instead of a "drop pallet, tea bag, run to next safe pallet" race to the no skill play championship.
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Same, i hope the meta changes for both sides and multiple builds become viable. But i'm skeptical. My guess is we'll see OTR instead of BT & other exhaust perks over DH on the survivor side. For killer side gen regression is nearly dead so those builds will have COB or just gen blocking perks like dead man switch and grim embrace.
We'll see, i'm hopeful the game will be better with this update.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058942#Comment_3058942
Face a good nurse first, please.
Lol your statement assumes counter play =100% success rate. Counter play means you have a chance to out play the opposing side. It does not guarantee you'll win every time. Do you play games?
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I couldn't agree more with your post. Nurse does have counter play, even with no DH. Players who complain about her or call her broken just don't want to learn how to play against her.
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Good news is, as a Twins main you can keep on slugging and camping. That's the incentive we've seen killers given in the past year or so. Tbh i will give this update a try as killer again. I haven't played killer in months b/c as an average skill killer i can't compete with the higher mmr survivors i get matched up with plus i don't want to tunnel or camp. If things aren't different after the update, i'll probably just resort to tunnel/camp/slug when i play killer again. it is what it is.
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It's a trade off. at low mmr you do see killer variety. high mmr is basically nurse, blight, huntress, and maybe leatherface. i agree mmr is basically a spiral once you die so many times. swf is your best bet to move back up.