The_C12H15NO2
The_C12H15NO2
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@Warcrafter4 said:
A lot of killers have been powercrept out of the game...BY SURVIVOR PERKS!
Most old style M1 killers just flatout can't win against the survivor perk these days as Strategies such as "Hit and Run" which is used by a lot of older killers aren't viable due to Circle of Healing alone.
Let alone maps since the removal of infinite loops have only gotten WORSE for the killers with the introduction of "Breakable" infinite loops that came with breakable walls.
Even map reworks have all universally been survivor sided with "Breakable" wall infinite loops being introduced to them.
yes, this. Maps need better balance. It's madness to have killer shack into a jungle gym, into a safe pallet tile as an option on maps. I can't remember his name but a streamer posted a video a year or two ago talking about the imbalance map tiles. He suggested smaller tiles but more of them so the game becomes more skill oriented gameplay vs. the "throws pallet...tea bag b/c i'm safe" which most loops are. I liked the idea.
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According to the devs, you're in the right MMR. B/c if you die, are you really that skilled? ...
But seriously, solo Q is a death spiral for survivor MMR. I guess that's a reason they want to make BT basekit and provide icons showing what each survivor is doing( practically basekit kindred).
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A road map would be nice to see. I understand they won't want to give out all the details. However just sending out "here is our plan this year" with smaller more detailed roadmaps each quarter covering their plan for the immediate 3 months would be great. Much better than "soon".
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It's an interesting idea. Idk if gen repair is the best way to charge the power b/c other gens would be repaired at the same time. I think that would create very short games. Maybe just a stalk function like myers instead. And you can still work on a gen, totem, or chest while stalking but they don't receive any progress.
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Flashlights are annoying and i too try to equip lightborn or franklins when i see them in lobby. On the flip side, it means i might get some free hits b/c they might play aggressively.
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Yup, this is my main problem with the survivor MMR right now. Solo q games will death spiral you with low skilled players. it's frustrating. I don't care to raise my MMR but I want a good team.
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This is totally subjective. Boil Over was over buffed and not tested properly before going live. I played a few killer games yesterday and ran into this perk 2 or 3 times. Only once did i let the person bleed out. That was a Kate who brought Ormund offering. She would run up the main building when i was about to down her. I picked her up the first time, noticed she had boil over, dropped immediately.
Fortunately for me the team was super altruistic and stayed close without doing gens. I was able to 2k by hooks, the Kate bled out somewhere, 1 DC'd after spending time tea bagging me.
My other games against boil over were normal. I was able to hook them, one did wiggle out once. But they weren't trying to abuse the perk by running up to an infinite spot.
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@Hannacia said:
It isn't rocket science. Break 3-4 totems and leave 1-2 totems for blessing. We usually leave 1 and if NOED pops we know where the remaining 2 are (incase we left 2 and the other one wasnt booned) . Survivors are just lazy when its a perk that doesn't benefit them. Boons you can just reboon all the time without no worry of time
As a killer i never use hexes anymore and ive tried pentimento only 2 times. Its funny how survivors always have time to boon or break hexes but when its NOED they complain.
which boon locations do you prefer to leave? just curious.
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Pentimento isn't that strong of a perk b/c of boons and survivors already know the totem location since they cleansed it once already. It's an interesting perk for sure but most games you barely get use out of it. Sure there are streamers who posted that one match where they got all 5 lit against a solo potato team. But generally you might get 1 or 2 before they are cleansed again then useless.
I love the idea of pentimento but b/c it came out after boons, it's nearly useless. hex perks are pretty much dead once a killer hits average mmr. But you're right, NOED has made a comeback b/c of boons and the killers know totems will be in play.
Personally i like to cleanse totems if there is time. 1k points and it helps me pip. I try to be mindful if another player has boons. but if i don't hear a boon go up i'll start cleansing.
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Yup, this is survivor MMR. Everyone has a bad game or two and that will give you trash team. Dying will create a literal death spiral as MMR gives you potato team mates making increasing your grade near impossible. The only way i break the cycle is swf. Altruism has no place in the current MMR.
On a lighter note, Choy has an amazing video of how to play survivor in the new MMR. It's worth a look lol
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Boon: Grind reduction - standing in the boon area grants 10k BPs per second. If hit by the killer, insta-escape.
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I'm in EST as well and I found killer que isn't bad during the day and matches are more casual. Even when the 3+ survivors escape I had fun and it was a good game. Generally my que time is like 3 minutes or less which isn't bad.
Evening is when my killer games become sweat fest of bully squads. It doesn't make the instant que worth it to me b/c even though i'm pretty sure my MMR is average, i get matched up with top MMR survivors who have been waiting a while.
So i bite the que bullet and wait the 5-10 minutes for games in late evening.
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@LastShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789262#Comment_2789262
The neat thing is that they introduced emblem system because kill/escape was decided to be good when considered alone. Making mmr nothing more but a step backwards XD
Lol right!? The emblem system tracks almost every action a player would consider skill on both sides. The devs would only need to adjust the point values into the MMR system. You could use this to punish camping too b/c the emblems deduct points for hook proximity. It's hard to understand bhvr thinking on this one. Their communication as to why they chose kills/escapes only isn't clear. It sounds like they didn't want to put in the effort.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789675#Comment_2789675
I almost always run kindred.
same here. having the information kindred provides is amazing.
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b/c solo q doesn't run kindred. instead most survivor mains just cry about wanting kindred base kit.
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Except in this example the MVP would need the score the goal. No matter how many assists, blocked shots, stolen passes, and more the individual player has. In DBD they don't care about all the smaller stuff for your MMR. At least in hockey an MVP has a chance to be recognized for their skill and move to a team that wins. In DBD despite all your great plays in game, if you don't escape you're doomed to lower MMR if you die.
Personally I don't mind the system. But BHVR needs to add more categories to the MMR scoring. Kills/Escapes are fine to include but they cannot be the only factor.
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The game is easier for good swf teams i feel but worse for solo q generally speaking. While survivor meta perks added COH to the list but no changes to general playstyle, killer meta perks and playstyle have changed. For the worse i would say in general.
There are definitely less killers playing since boons. I play in the US and usually in the late evening. Survivor wait time was always a few minutes. But in the past several months my que time doubled. it's 5-10 minutes for a game. So i would say killer population has dropped. At least in US servers. Sadly this means most killers that remain are above average to top MMR. So we get sweaty killers most of the time. It makes solo q a nightmare and swf games harder(which is fine b/c swf is a ton stronger). Most games i see killers camping and tunneling. Which to my first point, is worse for solo q (b/c for some reason most solo q players don't run kindred. ######### run kindred you morons), but swf can handle it.
Survivor games in my experience can spiral pretty quick in solo q. what i mean is, if i die b/c of a teammate, my MMR lowers. if this happens several games in a row, my lower MMR continues to give me trash teammates. So yeah, at that low MMR i can loop a killer better and escape chases. However if i get hit by NOED at the end and 1 hooked then the cycle continues. I only start to crawl out of this cycle when i play swf.
When i play killer, even though i'm probably average to below average, i do end up facing high MMR survivors both solo and swf. This is b/c the game just says "team A has been waiting X minutes. Match them with whomever". idk how to best deal with this besides changing the MMR points.
This isn't to say i hate the MMR system. I think it's working. However BHVR needs to add more categories to the MMR. so kills/escapes plus chase time, hooks/unhooks, hits/heals, etc. These are already tracked in game. They just need to decide how to assign point values. Then we might actually have a more skill based MMR.
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As others said above, it comes down to how well the survivor plays as a team. This is where the MMR really hurts survivors i feel b/c if you die due to poor teamwork, your MMR score drops and the cycle continues. There are entire essays on this forum discussing the problems with current MMR. My opinion is BHVR just needs to add other categories to the scoring besides kills/escapes.
I mainly play survivor & i don't agree with base kit BT. As much as i would exploit the ######### out of it, it would be a bad move on BHVR part to attempt to buff solo up to swf.
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I really like your hex rework idea. However i doubt the devs will take it seriously :( they gutted undying b/c it was too hard, apparently, for survivors to cleanse totems. Personally i think most survivors are just lazy about totems. But either way, the devs gutted undying b/c survivors complained about having to find all 5 totems instead of using maps or perks at their disposal.
Your blood web rework is simple and shouldn't take much for them to implement. Adding the extra perks would reduce the grind a ton. Top notch suggestions!
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Idk why this is a zero sum argument. MMR on the killer side should include a combination of kills and hooks. Ideally as time goes on BHVR will add other categories to the MMR which will reflect skill better. Same for survivors.
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Well, if it is killer-sided event this makes up for the snowmen event giving survivors free MOM.
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I'm with you, the whole "Move back & forth" mechanic which throws off auto-aim needs to be fixed. Auto aim shouldn't be a thing b/c it can be abused like this to make what would otherwise be a hit, miss. I'm a console player and it's pretty bad. Survivors don't even need to 360 to force the miss. Sometimes as a survivor you just need to move left to right fast enough and the swing will miss.
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Idk, everyone wants events. But the last event was poorly done. The envelopes in the event prior gave bonus point to all survivors based on completed gens. The last envelope event it was limited to survivors who specifically completed those gens. When the gens are randomly chosen for the bonuses, it is rng whether or not you get bonus points. rng doesn't make for good events.
I'm hopeful the devs learned from that and have an event where all players in the match will get points for objectives.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763420#Comment_2763420
Otz proved this by playing every killer perkless while waiting 30 seconds before engaging while maintaining an above an above 2.0 kill rate. (I think it was actually above 3.0 kill rate but could be wrong).
Otz admitted he played super sweaty (camped, tunneled, slugged) and he played at night which in the EU has more casual survivor players. Tru did the same experiment (also in the EU), he didn't camp/tunnel/slug and played during the day. if i remember right his results were 1-2 less kills on average than Otz.
This experiment is interesting but it still isn't perfect b/c of playstyle, time of day, and more.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2763152#Comment_2763152
The SBMMR isn´t bad. It just hasn´t anything to do with skill.
So they might just rename it to KEBMMR (Kill/Escape Based Matchmaking).
Don´t blame the KEBMMR for poor balancing.
KEBMMR - 100% using this from now on to describe the matchmaking. What they have now is not skill based.
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It definitely seems like double speak on their part. My suggestion is they just stop balancing around low MMR. We all sucked when we first started playing the game. You get better with time. We should treat low MMR like that, newer players who are learning. By nerfing killers who overperform at low mmr but underperform at high mmr, it makes higher mmr worse for killer players. And survivor players too b/c it limits the roster of viable killers. idk my personal mmr but when i play survivor i usually see huntress, blight, nurse, pyramid, pinhead, bubba. rare to see any other killer.
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I'm on the fence about EGC changes. But the two ideas i've seen which i like are opening the exit gates have a progress bar that goes down if they don't fully open and finishing the last gen starts EGC. If EGC starts with the last gen, then the timer will need to be longer to take into account no way out and remember me.
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What is sad is that the emblem system gives you points for how many gens are done during a chase by your team. So in this example of a 5 gen chase, the survivor in chase would get a ton of emblem points. That equals skill. imo the devs already have a good foundation to build a real SBMM system off of which is the emblems. The points should be tweaked based on what actions should hold more weight. So for example chase points would be higher than gen repairs b/c clearly there is more skill involved in knowing how to run a tile than holding M1 for 90 seconds.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762796#Comment_2762796
The devs have said previously they want to discourage actual facecamping but haven’t found a solution they like. They don’t think tunneling someone right off a hook is unsportsmanlike or anything like that but they do probably want to incentivize spreading out the downs a bit so all the players stay in the game as long as possible.
The scourge hook perk seems to incentivize spreading the hooks over camping/tunnel. More perks like this on the killer side would help more than giving every survivor basekit BT. Honestly i know it wasn't popular with survivor mains but OG undying/Ruin combo incentivized killers to leave the hook too. I didn't mind that combo as a survivor b/c like all perk builds it's a trade-off. That took two perk slots which potentially weren't noed.
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So sad. the devs are entertaining the idea of BT being basekit after creating conditions in the game which encourage more camping by killers, particularly at high level mmr. For years I've seen posts from the devs saying camping/tunneling is a legit strategy. Suddenly it's a problem?
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Healing speed wasn't the issue to me. it was this perk combined self care and faster healing speed together. CoH should be either self care for everyone or faster healing speed. I make the same argument for the other boon perks.
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I agree basing the MMR on kills/escapes and time in a match is lazy and terrible. However The point that higher level play leads to sweaty games is valid.
That being said, to quote Choy in one of his recent videos, this highlights the meta is very stale. If your goal is to win at high level (escape as a survivor or kill 3-4 as killer) then your perk choices are limited. This is a problem and why the game is being described as unfun by so many streamers and other players in high level.
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@IsMmrReal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758301#Comment_2758301
Borrowed can be waited out, Unbreakable has zero indication. BT you know is there when a survivor farms in your face, well 9/10 times lol.
lol right but that's to my point, BT has zero counter when it's being used offensively like this. Unbreakable you at least have the option to pick them up. BT doesn't have any counter besides let them go or chase them for 10 seconds before taking a swing. Idk if i would change BT to be fair. Just pointing out BT doesn't really have a counter. imo every perk that each side runs should have reasonable counter play.
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Borrowed Time, that's the one you meant which has zero counter.
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Same here, it isn't a game to take seriously anymore as killer. The MMR pits you against much higher level survivor teams even as an average skilled killer. The maps have so many safe loops you need to play anti-loop killers if you want to actually get kills. It's not a good sign for a game when so much of the roster isn't viable.
Personally I just play killer casually and try to get bps. i won't go for kills unless there is a challenge or if it's by accident. so it isn't really a kill it's more like manslaughter.
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This is why killers need an option to either snuff the totem or destroy it. Good swf have always done this, body block then coordinate to heal themselves. Now with coh it's so much easier for them. Even in solo q at higher level play this is an issue b/c all the survivors can see the boon totem. Which honestly shouldn't be a thing imo.
I do love the idea of boon totems. But killers don't have much counter play. snuffing one out can be a huge waste of time if you aren't nearby already. smart survivors will boon far away from unfinished gens so most killers won't bother looking for them.
Boons are and remain the reason why so many killers have switched to survivor or left the game. My que time is like 50% longer now on survivor side whether i solo or swf. But i'm sure in another 8 months the devs will have enough game data to make a change to boons...
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756960#Comment_2756960
tbf most of the new Killers also have it nowdays like Nemesis, Artist, Pinhead etc
right. when i play survivor, i only hide in a locker to avoid bbq. It isn't a good strat i feel in general b/c it's a very high risk move.
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@Smuk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2756951#Comment_2756951
and if somebody or lets say killer
dodges the lobby, then it will just pick the first killer in queue.
So yes. In the state as the sbmm is, I have no idea why it left ptb
My guess is b/c they were on a timetable to release a different MMR system. The devs couldn't make a real SBMM work in time and just said ######### it, kills/escapes only plus time in game. As a side note, I won't call it SBMM b/c it isn't skill based.
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Legion power works the same. Just a survivor who hasn't had the joy of playing against killer instinct
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It could be b/c of survivor que times. The longer they wait, the MMR range gets larger to try to get them into a game.
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@EagerOgre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750393#Comment_2750393
Have you solved any math equation to understand the MINIMUM number of survivors to kill in a trial to get one pip? Is it 1 or 2? I know it depends a lot on the other categories though.
it depends on your grade. idk what the math is. since pip is based on overall play i've had success focusing on actual gameplay instead of focusing on kills only. we'll see if i ever move into gold or iri grades if i need to kill someone to pip.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750393#Comment_2750393
But dont you need to kill 3 for pip?
at higher grades maybe. i am more casual killer so i haven't moved above silver 4 since they changed the ranks into grades. since they just reset we'll see how often i play. if i end up needing a kill to pip i'll just kill 1 when i have the chance. personally i think mmr being based on kills/escapes only is dumb so i do this partly in protest.
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I came to the same conclusion. I just try to do enough to pip and then avoid killing survivors even if i'm outplaying them. Getting kills means more stress as killer. No one plays games to be stressed
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@FriendlyBubba said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750252#Comment_2750252
I agree with your statement but how is BHVR supposed to do that exactly? These people are really smart and I have a feeling that most of them are trolling to feed them off from their emotional response which thrives them to do it continuously. They'll say that they go after the survivor to camp because it's a valid strategy. They won't say the exact survivor because then they'll give them proof which they obviously don't want.
It's something that sadly will be present in any online discourse. There will be people who say and do things in games which would in real life get your ass kicked. The solution is to remove those persons from the game using the report system. However BHVR needs to improve their reporting system b/c realistically only streamers can effectively use it since BHVR requires video evidence. If BHVR would enable game replay or start collecting chat data or something so that they can be proactive, then we'll see more bans & less of this disgusting behavior. The same approach would help get rid of hackers faster.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2750252#Comment_2750252
Posts like this are why I was very careful to mention that these players are not the only factor that went into this decision. People were already uncomfortable with Smartface and had pretty legitimate arguments for why, this was just the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.
You don't have to agree - I'm on the fence myself - but there's nothing inherently ridiculous, overreaching, or lazy about this decision.
Agree to disagree :) bubba is wearing someone else's face on his default character model. Any arguments that would apply to him earning an achievement survivor face mask would also apply to his grandma face and his default look.
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There's this new thing in the game called reporting a player who engages in racist behavior. BHVR is being lazy and virtue signaling instead of actually monitoring their game. This won't stop people from face camping players of a certain ethnicity b/c racist. The logical conclusion to this is BHVR just removes the ability of the killer to hook players. Racist people will find a way to be dicks. They should be removed from the game instead of removing features or mechanics.
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Choy put up a video a week or two ago about how bhvr can better deal with this. A replay option post-game would help with player reporting. Since bhvr is 100% dependent on reports from players to ban hacks, those of us who don't record every moment of each trial have no option to report b/c bhvr doesn't store game play data.
The other option i think is bhvr needs to implement server side restrictions. Example, we all know there is a max speed survivors and killers can move. They could cap that on the server to prevent the insane speed hacks. It won't solve hacking but it will mitigate a lot of the madness.
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They should slow down with new content. game improvements should be done every 3 months instead of new content every 3 months. a game that has been around for 6 years will be better off.
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I don't want this added in game either. I play solo q mostly when i play survivor. as much as i want the team to play well and not potato, i also don't want potatoes becoming as strong as swf thinking they're good at the game b/c they can read icons.
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Otz admitted it's balanced but his wins were by playing dirty (tunnel, slug, camp, etc). Otz also points out the killer doesn't have room to make mistakes or they lose. Survivors can make a ton of mistakes and recover. The killer makes 1 or 2 mistakes and the game is lost.
So imo the point here is, bhvr seems to have balanced the game for casual survivors but not casual killers. Casual survivors have a lot of strong tools they can use with little skill. Casual killers just get stomped by average survivor teams. Streamers with 7k+ hours in game don't speak for the majority of killers just like they don't for the majority of survivors.