Wylrin
Wylrin
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- Wylrin
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Mr. Myers is definitely a contender for me. The only thing that kills it is when he moos like a dying cow at every pallet stun.
I like Freddy's glove animations. I'm pretty sure he's the only one who actually does something with his weapon while he's just walking around, whereas everyone else just holds it up and only does something with it when they wipe their blade.
All of Pinhead's animations are superb.
The way you break pallets as the Twins is also really satisfying to me for some reason.
The Wraith interacting with his bell when cloaking and uncloaking is nice considering it didn't used to even show up in the game.
Any non-human killer is always really fun to tromp around as given their unique sounds and animations.
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Some of the pre-game chats are very entertaining when one or more people has a goofy Steam name or something.
As for actual gaming moments, there have been countless of them over the years, but these immediately came to mind:
- Having a Dwight stand on the other side of a window and wave me to come get him. I was playing as Michael Myers, so I just stood and stared at him. He got the hint when I went into Tier II, at least. There have been other Dwights who just stayed put.
- Putting Victor in a "play pen" while playing as the Twins. It was on the Eyrie of Crows map. There are these tiny fenced sections in the middle of the map (I think they're fenced-in graves, but I can't remember for sure.) I was farming with two survivors because one killed themselves and the other disconnected. A Feng was following me as I ran around as Victor. I decided to try jumping into one of the fenced areas. It was actually very difficult to land in there. Not because of the size of the area, but because it was so clogged with the tombstone (I think) and bushes and such that anytime I tried, Victor would get stuck on something and die from being too high up. I'd always shake my head and try again. It got to the point where Feng was watching me and we'd both shake our heads when I died. Eventually, I managed to get Victor in his play pen, and we both were snapping our necks nodding so much. The other survivor came over after the generators were done and Victor was given boops in his new crib. <3
- Vibing with a moonwalking Myers.
- Farming with survivors as the Pig because someone immediately disconnected or something. The last three had traps on their heads. The one survivor (a Kate, I think) let herself die as a thank you and amusement factor, so the last two survivors and I just crouched around her body in memorial. Then the other two were taken by the Entity in the Endgame Collapse.
- Catching two people in the bathroom of the Game map as a Trapper, so I just put a trap in the doorway. One hopped into a locker and the other stepped in the trap.
- Stuffing my face in the corner as the Hillbilly after I played horribly. I kept peeking at the survivor right there with me and snapping my head back to my corner like I was being grounded.
- Getting Hubris to work with the Hag.
- Surprising and/or probably confusing survivors as a Huntress running Save the Best For Last, Franklin's Demise, and Hoarder.
- Hiding with three Dwights in the basement as a Claudette.
- Literally any time I got a generator grab as Mr. Myers, The Pig, or Ghostface.
- Throwing a gas party with a Clown.
- Co-oping on a generator with a crouched, enthusiastically nodding Pig.
- Me stopping and staring disappointedly at the corpse of a survivor who disconnected. Another survivor came over to butt dance over the remains and shake their head.
This last one doesn't count as a gaming moment, but I had a dream in the middle of Covid about Michael Myers tending to his garden in a pink apron. He was wearing his Halloween mask, and over that, he was wearing a medical mask. The Shape respects social distancing, apparently. XD
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@PyramidFootLicker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522592#Comment_3522592
Especially since this wouldn't even affect stealth killers, or killers with undetectable perks, people forget that pretty much every survivor going solo runs this perk so it's basically base kit for them and the fact that they don't notice this still or never bring up how OP kindred is proves that it really doesn't affect them.
Any time I bring up base kindred people compare it to actual perks that are problematic from survivors despite kindred never being that strong and requiring a hook state to even stay up to begin with
I'm neutral on the topic, but I did want to mention that killers having the ability to go Undetectable doesn't really do anything against Kindred. The Wraith needs to cloak again, the Pig needs to crouch, Ghostface can't immediately activate his Night Shroud without running the risk of being revealed by the hooked survivor, etc. That second or two where you can still see the killer's aura is more than enough to tell which direction they're going, which is really all you need if you're working on a generator and see the killer's coming your way next. Hypothetically, a stealthy killer could fake going one direction, go Undetectable, and then book it in another direction. But seeing as how there's no way to tell a survivor is running this perk as the killer - and just the fact that people probably don't think of Kindred when they consider perks to counteract - this would likely end up being a waste of time for a killer trying to actually make this work.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519263#Comment_3519263
Listen, I know what you're getting at. But literally slapping M2 and shutting down a loop (like knight) requires ZERO skill- in my opinion of course. I respect your opinion but I just can't agree.
I agree with this. I'm not referring to shutting down loops, I'm referring to using assets to aid in pursuing a survivor in a loop that isn't in the radius of a drone.
Maybe I didn't make it clear in my previous post, and that's my bad, if so. But I was more referring to using a Skull Merchant's drones as things you want removed as opposed to staying there to guard an area. Free speed boost is almost always helpful in chase if you have even just one person who's recently disabled a drone.
Sorry if there was confusion, but I'm just as equally confused and kind of saddened that the immediate response is to assume a Skull Merchant's only purpose is to camp resources, be they generators, pallets, hex totems, etc. My initial suggestion was more along the lines of using Bubba's power in a chase, but it being equated to Bubba camping a hooked survivor in the basement when they're not at all the same thing.
I do definitely agree that the Skull Merchant needs something to keep her from being so oppressive for such little input (her three gen setup) but that isn't her only possible function. That's all I'm trying to convey.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519237#Comment_3519237
Okay so we have "chase merchant" who goes around and puts drones at every safe loop, camping hex totems and whatever else. I'm still not impressed, sorry.
What you described isn't what I'd consider a Skull Merchant using their power in chase to be. Putting a drone at a hex totem isn't relevant to chasing at all, and while slapping a drone down at every pallet is - unfortunately - a possible tactic, I'd say that's less chasing and more herding.
In my opinion, a chasing Skull Merchant would be using their Undetectable status to close distance quickly (and potentially for mid-chase mindgames, but I haven't had the opportunity to experiment yet) while using their passive speed boost to catch up with survivors and/or force them to reevaluate how many times they can safely run a loop.
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I want to play as the Skull Merchant to experiment with ways of playing her that are fun for both sides involved, but I know if I try, everyone will probably kill themselves on the first hook because they're expecting the playstyle commonly associated with the Skull Merchant.
I'm easily overstimulated by lots of information, and when playing as the killer, you're constantly having to keep an eye out for survivors while thinking of what areas you want to defend (if any) and such. You're basically doing fifty things at once, and I've never been good at multitasking. I lose chase with survivors countless times because I simply lose track of them or the chase music will start playing and I didn't even see anybody. Basically, I'm kind of blind when I play as the killer.
So having a killer who a portion of their power is to have a reliable source of information is very comforting to me. The Skull Merchant has a steady supply of information and a means of going undetectable, which are two of my favorite things in a killer. On top of this, she has a means to apply the Exposed status effect and I think she's one of - if not the only - killer who can get a passive speed boost without the use of perks or addons. With all of this combined, the Skull Merchant might honestly be one of my favorites in terms of playstyle.
The problem lies with the association with how the Skull Merchant should be - or just is - played.
The three gen strategy is obnoxious and should not exist in the game in the form that the Skull Merchant can force it to be - basically impossible even for the most skilled and coordinated team. I agree with the sentiment there. Unfortunately, that makes it really hard for someone who wants to play as the Skull Merchant without using this set of tactics. Even if you get a group of players who won't just immediately quit the moment they know which killer it is, the way this topic's original post is worded highlights another problem.
It's implied here that exceedingly few or just straight up no one plays the Skull Merchant without the intention of being obnoxious or toxic. And I'm pretty sure that would be an accurate consensus among the community, that anyone who plays as the Skull Merchant is terrible, is being terrible, and/or is being otherwise morally unsound due to their choice of killer. And I think that's a sad association for the killer who probably has the most diverse set of playstyles given her power is dabbling in a little bit of everything, but everyone immediately equates her to "the three gen strat."
Again, nothing against anyone whatsoever for hating playing against the Skull Merchant's popular playstyle. I'm right there with them. I'm just sad because the killer could be something actually really unique and fun to play against, but a popular playstyle has made her the most loathed killer Dead by Daylight has seen in a long time, if not of all time.
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Assuming it's not just to silence a long, shrill scream, a killer smacking a hooked survivor takes time. If it's to vent frustration, then it's serving no other mechanical reason other than to slow a killer by making them wipe their blade. Yeah, the time spent doing that is miniscule, but a lot of people go for grabs at vaults instead of downing and picking up to save a few precious seconds, so any time spent being unsportsmanlike is also punishing them, however mildly. Whereas butt-dancing on the other side of a pallet or window doesn't really have the same effect since you're in a safe spot that you probably don't want to leave immediately anyways. Given that a killer smacking a hooked survivor actually gives a tiny bit of advantage to the survivors, I don't see why you would want to remove it.
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I feel like attempting to unhook yourself shouldn't even be possible unless you're under the influence of luck perks/offerings or running Deliverance. It's shooting yourself and your team in the foot attempting in most circumstances. New players might think it's something you're just supposed to do since your only other option is to do nothing, and I don't imagine a lot of games have mechanics where doing nothing is the best thing you can do. So it would probably feel very strange to a lot of new players.
The only instance I can think of where attempting to unhook yourself isn't completely detrimental is instances where all four players have been downed quickly and your only hope at that point is either a self unhook or a teammate with Unbreakable. In all other instances I can think of, it's only going to do more harm than good.
And that's without even touching on how most people who attempt to unhook themselves use the mechanic. As a punishment-free disconnect, as mentioned previously in other posts. I've been teamed up with so many people who just kill themselves on their first hook that I'm literally running Up the Ante, Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips, and Reassurance in an attempt to negate this.
But even if you save the person, half of the time they just stand there or run directly at the killer begging to be killed. Most of the time it's a waste of the team's time trying to keep this person from quitting because that person's already made up their mind and they're going to get themselves out of the game regardless of what you do.
The ability to attempt unhooking yourself has always been an option that typically hurt more than helped a team, but it's even worse now given that's how people disconnect. So I honestly feel like unless you're running Deliverance, it just shouldn't be an option. I'd say luck offerings should enable the ability, too, but then everyone would probably just use a Chalk Pouch offering to have the option of abandoning the game, which would bring us back to where we started, basically.
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Ace has been the survivor I've played the most as over the years, but lately, I've been playing as other survivors almost exclusively. I like playing as Adam and Quentin (though I have to play with Quentin's bloodied face cosmetic because he just looks like a barbie doll to me otherwise.) Sometimes when I want to be in-character I'll play as Claudette and Jake for healing and sabotaging, respectively, though sabotaging in solo play doesn't usually work well, especially when I'm the saboteur. XD
Most recently, I've been playing as survivors who are more neglected in their amount of cosmetics. Jeff and Haddie are definitely in the rotation, as well as Zarina. I know one person playing as a character who doesn't get as much cosmetic love certainly won't shift future cosmetic design priorities, but it makes me happy just seeing characters you don't usually see.
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@DBD78 said:
It could be fun if it also had a second effect, like seeing the auras of items regressing.
That would be interesting! It could be used as a form of aura reading, then. And it wouldn't be too insane, either, since most people are going to stop using their item when in the terror radius of someone with Overwhelming presence. So it would just be a split-second confirmation that someone is there, most likely. They could make it to where any survivor using an item in your terror radius shows their aura to you for the duration on top of its current effect.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506362#Comment_3506362
You make valid point I'm being sarcastic their just so bad you don't see them
Ahh, okay. I understand. Personally, I don't see why the Twins are as bad as people say. Or bad at all, really. The only reason I don't main Charlotte and Victor is because my aim with Victor is really bad and needs a lot of work, which is something I'm trying to steadily work on over time. Once I've chipped away at getting better with them, they'll probably be one of the killers I play the most.
I'm honestly very scared of a Freddy tier complete rework. Not just for the Twins, but for any killer. If the developers have an idea that would completely change the killer's power, why not just make that a new killer entirely? Then people who like the original killer will get to keep them and people who wanted something different will have the new killer.
I'm of the opinion that a complete rework should never be the solution, personally. But what do you guys think?
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My default killer perk build if I don't know what I want to run is Agitation and Iron Grasp. Sometimes I add Mad Grit and Lightborn or Play With Your Food to complete the setup. (Putting on Play With Your Food with Agitation can be hilarious if you manage to pick up a survivor with one or more stacks. You literally just zoom across the map.) Other times I just have Agitation and Iron Grasp with two other perks that don't necessarily synchronize in any notable way.
Another sort of default build of mine is Brutal Strength and Fire Up. Regardless of how weak or strong it is, it sure does feel good to just chipper-shred through pallets. Lately I've been pairing this with Hex: Crowd Control and Hex: Undying to try to force pallets down as fast as possible. It gets curb-stomped by bad totem placement or survivors running literally any totem-finding perk, of course, but it's pretty sweet when it actually works. I've gotten in chases with one survivor, hooked them, got in a chase with another survivor, and the second survivor was suffering the consequences of the first survivor fast vaulting a window in that first chase. It's really satisfying when it works.
Coup de Grace was a guilty pleasure before it got the amount of stacks you received buffed, and now it's an absolute joy to run. It works well with any build, really.
Other killer builds I run tend to be more specific to the killer themselves and their playstyle. I wouldn't be running Brutal Strength and Fire Up on the Demogorgon, for example. And I wouldn't run Agitation and Iron Grasp on Pyramid Head. But aside from that, the builds above are generally all-purpose killer builds.
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I don't think you realize how scary it is for many people seeing topics like this. Freddy was completely reworked and that was painful enough for countless people, but to completely remove a killer? And for what reasoning? I'm not trying to be inflammatory or passive-aggressive, I just legitimately don't understand the reasoning behind this request. If "no one" plays as them, why is removing the Twins even necessary? Even if they do have as low of a pick rate as the example you gave, you'd be erasing a killer they love for no other reason beyond other people not playing as that killer.
What if we removed the top-picked killers in this game? Would that be unjustifiable because, "Well, lots of people like playing them?" If so, it basically amounts to, "You don't make up a majority or popular choice, so your opinions don't matter." People playing with mixed up perk builds or just people otherwise shaking things up by deviating from popular playstyles already deal with a lot of crap just because they're typically not up to par with people who are taking the beaten path. Why compound on that by removing a killer that allows them an unconventional playstyle?
Maybe it wasn't the intention of this topic, but it comes across very uncaring of others' wants. If 99.98% of people don't play as the Twins, that's fine. Why remove the killer with the only justification basically being that .02% of people just don't matter because, well, they don't belong to a higher percentage?
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@ChurchofPig said:
Why is the comparison to Jake whos base is even clean shaven?
Jake's default is clean-shaven, but I'm pretty sure the cosmetic description points out how much of an oddity it is for Jake to not have a beard.
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I see no reason why not. It could be argued that it's more of Jeff's style to have unruly hair, but Jake has plenty of clean-shaven cosmetics despite this, and plenty of the female survivors who you wouldn't think would want anything to do with dresses has dress cosmetics because they look good to the person playing as them. I think it should be an option, at the very least.
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@Depressedlegion said:
Are y'all forgetting dredge? The literal manifestation of dark thoughts?
I'm torn on the Dredge. It's not made entirely clear what it is. A manifestation of dark thoughts, yes, but of its own volition? I can't really tell from the lore if the Dredge was an entity that had a lesser form of existence and grew more powerful at the trauma experienced by those in the garden, or if it was literally birthed by the people's traumas made manifest. If the latter, is the Dredge really at fault here? It's malicious and seeks trauma to feed and/or power itself, presumably, but it was literally created that way. The terrible humans in Dead by Daylight's killer roster were born with the ability to choose good or evil. Nothing forced any of their hands. Some likely would've chosen a different path if they'd been blessed with different circumstances, but the Wraith's justification in killing the people he did doesn't make him any less of a murderer.
It's very possible that the Dredge has the same amount of choice, but it can be assumed that it's literally an amalgamation of darkness. I don't know if it counts as being "biologically" evil, given its strange conception and birth. But it's possible that the Dredge is by nature a parasite that literally needs to make others suffer in order to ensure its survival. No human is born with the existential obligation to kill and/or harm in order to survive.
In short, most other killers had the option of being good and chose evil instead. The Dredge might literally not have that choice, and if it does have the choice now, then it may very well be hampered by being a parasite by nature, as opposed to human beings who choose to be parasites.
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@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504000#Comment_3504000
I agree with that. I have no problem with skill floor (that's a good thing) and everyone should have their own opinions based on playing him. Most seemed to not like him so if not a flop then what? My personal issues with him @GannTM @Wylrin is based off the nauseating experience switching cameras/tagging is on console (could be PC too idk). Not to mention it's quite clunky on console as well. I also always feel like anything I do with him I could do better with another killer.
If you two like him that's fantastic but I just don't personally see the appeal. When I would rather play my Pig should tell you everything you need to know.
All is MUTE now though as Xeno is coming and I will never touch anything else again.
EDIT: "All is MUTE now though as Xeno is coming and I will never touch anything else again". is assuming Pennywise never comes to DBD. They pull that off I will play him and Xeno for life.
Ahh, I understand. I play Dead by Daylight on the pc, so I honestly have no idea what console gaming for different killers is like. If it feels clunky to play as the Singularity on the console, then yeah, that's definitely a problem that should be addressed.
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I don't know every killer's lore in and out, but the Doctor will always be at the top or one of the top contenders for me. Yeah, you could say his experimentation is furthering science, but one, science at the expense of morality is always an extremely dangerous and terrible thing. And two, is it furthering science, really?
I think I remember in the doctor's tome lore that he wanted to inject something directly into a person's eye. Not because he suspected there was a reaction that would be noteworthy. Not because the knowledge gained from it would further anything in the medical field or any other scientific field. Simply because he wanted to see what would happen.
Seeing what happens from experiments is scientific, of course, but there was no scientific method involved in that example. I don't know the ins and outs of being a scientist, so forgive me for any misconceptions of mine, but I'd think if you're doing an experiment, you at least want to form a hypothesis and/or rules for the experiment to identify potential constants and variables. Herman didn't seem to do any of that. He just wanted to see what would happen, likely to satisfy his sadism, and now uses, "It's for science!" as an excuse. Or maybe he doesn't even use that excuse and knows fully well what he's doing, but he's just in a position where no one can oppose him.
Medical horror in general is a very relatable concept to a lot of people, but a "doctor" who's cruel because he enjoys it while under the guise of doing something for the greater good is just sickening to me, personally. Because while I imagine Herman did make some discoveries, most of his "research" probably just amounted to, "I want to find ways of controlling my victim to satisfy my selfish desire to inflict pain."
It's also probably more terrifying that people like the Doctor not only exist, but can also be renowned in their field. People like the Clown are just objectively terrible and immoral to most people. But there are people like Herman doing terrible things and they're not only free to reign terror in society, but they're also in a position of power in society where the people who have the power to stop them are rooting them on, and the ones who know cruelty at their hand have no influence or power to really do anything about it. It's kind of like the hypothetical of a police officer who abuses his power, but his fellow officers cover up for and protect him either due to camaraderie or them actually knowing and approving of their colleague's work. And all the while the civilian victims can't do much because who's going to listen to handful common folk when an entire police force is shutting them down? It's a hard battle to win just because of the abuser's status, which the Doctor has the status to do whatever he wants without anyone being able to put a dent in his work.
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Pinhead already moans in, uh, enjoyment when he gets pallet stunned and the Spirit has been basically naked since Day One. If being too sexual was the reasoning behind not adding the Labyrinth, that would certainly be interesting. Also you could just... make it not as sexual and still keep it in the spirit of the Cenobites' realm.
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@I_CAME said:
This goes beyond the event. Survivor bloodpoints are just bad in general.
Yeah, bloodpoint scoring needs work in general. You make around the same amount of bloodpoints by sitting for 90 seconds on a critical objective while another person makes that much in a second yoinking someone off a hook. It doesn't even have to be a safe unhook. If the developers removed the Prove Thyself bloodpoint bonus in an attempt to make bloodpoint scoring more accurate (though I have no idea if this was the intention or not) then scoring events in general also need a lot of work. You can do three generators by yourself (60% of the entire team's collective objective) and still not even have half of the possible points you can get in the Objective category.
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But yeah, play as whoever you want to play as. If someone's of the mood to complain, nothing you do is going to change that. So might as well do what makes you happy instead of trying to appease people who will find literally anything else to complain about.
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@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503899#Comment_3503899
Then what was he?
End transmission tiny success came from busted ass MfT. Not Singularity.
I've been really enjoying playing as the Singularity. I see a lot of people saying he's bad, but most people don't say why. I'd be curious hearing why you don't like him, if you don't mind divulging. :)
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I actually like Boon: Circle of Healing better now as a survivor. I tend to end up being the healer, so having a way to boost that speed exponentially is great in my book.
The only problem I have with it (and boons in general now) is that my teammates seem to completely ignore its existence. It used to be everyone would beeline to a boon's area of effect, but now they're just completely ignored a good chunk of the time.
I had a game recently where one person was hooked and everyone else was injured, but no one went to my boon totem. And not because they were healing somewhere else (that I would absolutely understand) but because they couldn't even find each other and were just scrambling, even when I hovered around the boon for a bit.
Do people not know that Circle of Healing now shows the aura of injured survivors? You're not just waiting for someone to happen upon you. You're literally broadcasting your location to your teammates as a request for help.
Regarding older versions of Circle of Healing, I never really understood why everyone liked it so much when the community was also generally of a collective opinion that Self Care was a waste of time, even when Self Care was at 50% healing speed. Circle of Healing at 50% was a little bit faster than Self Care because of weird math stuff, I'm pretty sure, but I still don't really get why one was considered something you should do and another was regarded as being useless to your team.
In conclusion, I'd absolutely run the current version of Circle of Healing more often. It just seems like it gets ignored when I run it now, for some reason.
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@Xernoton said:
I know what you mean. The amount of times I've rescued someone in end game and regretted it as soon as they reached the gate isn't exactly low.
Last year I encountered a Hillbilly in a game and it was obvious that this guy was struggling and didn't have a lot of experience with the killer. They tried their best and got someone (I think it was a Meg) down in end game and hooked them but didn't resort to camping. I came for the rescue (because I find it kind of dick-ish to not even try, if you get a chance) and when we reached the exit gates, the Meg started spamming her macros at the killer. That felt awful to watch and I wished I could put her right back on that hook. The end game chat wasn't much better. A lot of "ez"s and random insults.
Neither side should try to make their opponent feel bad but because there are 4 survivors and 1 killer in each game it seems like it comes from the survivor side more often. Though, statistically it's probably about the same, so take that with a grain of salt.
It just makes me kind of sad to see that we can't accept when someone plays good or maybe even better than ourselves. I am not free of fault by any means (sometimes you just get salty) but I don't go as far as writing death threats or try to make someone feel bad about themself.
I feel the same way after saving certain teammates. I play very altruistically (not in the sense that I unhook people right in the killer's face, but I don't care about a personal escape if there's someone I can potentially save.) There are times that playstyle obviously ends in my death, and I'm just watching the person I saved gyrate their butt for the full two minutes at the edge of an opened exit gate. I'm just like, "THIS is what I died for?"
And then the post game comments are an absolute delight. I feel bad when it's two or three of my teammates just trashing the poor killer. I'm generally too nonconfrontational to call them out outright, but there have certainly been times when I made it very clear that I was not of their opinion.
It's worse, in my opinion, when the killer's running a very chill build. Perks you barely ever see, maybe a meme addon, usually zero generator defense. People shouldn't be aggressive towards another player for any reason, but it just feels so much more agitating when people target those who are clearly just trying to have fun. I can understand feeling frustration when playing against a killer where all of your progress is just being undone right in front of you, but that frustration shouldn't manifest against that player in the form of aggression, much less some guy who has no similarities beyond playing the killer role.
Anytime I see another ggez from a teammate, I'm probably just going to say, "Dude," and see what their response is. Should be a fascinating study. X3
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@Chordyceps said:
This kinds of posts are always fun when the people commenting have killer PFPs, cause basically just looking at their PFP tells you what their main is. Yes the same is true for me.
Yeah, it is a good indicator, isn't it? X3 Though in some people's cases, they might be choosing a killer based on how much they like their lore. If I had to pick a profile picture based on who I played the most, it probably wouldn't be the Wraith, but Philip's story is just so compelling to me. Also, he's one of the most morally aligned of the killers in Dead by Daylight, I feel like. I do love me some villains with tragic backstories. X3
To answer the topic's question, though, I don't really have a main. I have favorites, of course, but who I feel like playing shifts depending on my mood and what kind of playstyle I want to go for. I love playing as the Twins, for example, but there are some times when the thought of playing as them is not at all appealing.
Really, the only killer I consistently don't play as is the Nurse, but that's nothing against her. I'll probably pick her up eventually. And there are other killers I only play as once in a blue moon, but most killers are in the rotation somewhere.
Lately I've been enjoying trying to make Freddy work and experimenting with the Singularity.
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Just for elaboration, because not knowing certain term definitions can lead to a lot of miscommunications, when the term "hit and run" is used, we're talking about a killer who injures one survivor, then completely disengages with that survivor and searches for another, right?
If that's the case, I'm a little confused why hit and run tactics would be a bad thing. I understand that being injured while up against a stealthy killer is generally not a good spot for the survivor to be in, but isn't that the point of going up against stealth killers? But more importantly, a lot of people view honing in on one survivor to be one of the most frustrating things to experience. Isn't hit and run basically the opposite of tunneling? I understand that switching to the opposite end of a spectrum can be just as bad as where you were originally, that a balance is usually preferred, but I personally don't see it in this light.
I think a lot of people agree that the very start of the game is the most important in deciding a match. Most killers will generally try to down the first person they engage with assuming they're not a Trapper or another killer who needs to set things up for their power to work best. The first hook of the game is what really starts the snowball if there's to be any snowballing that game.
But with the Wraith using a hit and run playstyle, he's actively choosing to delay the first hook in favor of injuring multiple survivors. It's risky given that you ideally want someone on a hook as quickly as possible, but it can work in your favor later in the match. I personally view it as a strategy that has the potential to devastate the survivor team or completely devastate the rest of the match for the killer. When it works, it really works. When it doesn't, it really doesn't.
In my personal opinion, hit and run is only problematic when coupled with regression and other similar perks that basically rewards the playstyle with generators being unable to be completed. But regression perks aren't the terror they used to be, thankfully. Smacking someone off a generator to kick it and go for the next person sitting on a generator to kick that one doesn't ensure a constant rotation of generators regressing beyond repair anymore. It's potentially different for a 3 gen scenario, of course, but that's another topic.
But when hit and run is solely about catching survivors off guard, I don't have a problem with it at all, but there are probably things I'm not taking into consideration that other players would find annoying.
Does anyone mind giving specifics on why hit and run is boring? I'm sort of just assuming it's due to the lack of conventional chases, but I could be wrong. I'd be curious to discuss, if anyone wants. :)
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Windows of Opportunity is more of a perk for casual players or those with trouble remembering things, in my opinion. I feel like the best loopers already have a good understanding of pallet and window layout the moment they spawn into the game. They've played so much that they've memorized different maps, what tiles have what characteristics, etc.
For someone who doesn't play the game religiously or just someone who doesn't have the best memory, Windows of Opportunity is an easy fix. It's not going to help you actually loop the killer. It's just bumping your map knowledge up to equal someone who already has all of this figured out. It takes up a perk slot for something that you'll eventually come to learn given time, most likely. Though there are maps where there are scarcely any structures where pallets are conventionally located, so Windows of Opportunity can be a godsend if you're not sure which two rocks a pallet may decide to be between.
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I'm bad at coming up with perk mechanics, but here's a name and some flavor text:
Involuntary Incubation - The organic chamber of your victims' bodies ensures your brood's survival, and you prefer your spawn's hosts not to squirm.
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I feel like Laurie Strode would make a terrifying killer, potentially. Completely devastated by Michael's reign of terror the night he came home, she becomes obsessed with ending evil... only to spiral so deeply into it herself as she tries to exterminate the very thing she has unwittingly become.
I don't know a whole lot about Ringu, but from what little I can infer, Yoichi was a sensitive/psychic of sorts, right? I feel like he has the potential to be possessed and/or transformed by all the horrors he can see better than most.
Opposite of the original question, but I'd love to see the Wraith as a survivor. I just picture him being timid, meek, and overall just scared of everything, but tick him off and you're getting doused in kerosene and lit up like a Christmas tree. Don't mess with Philip. It's always the quiet ones.
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I actually like running Bloodhound every now and then. Neon red paint underneath survivors' feet makes it really hard for them to hide even at a distance. My only problem with Bloodhound is that it doesn't seem to work on Freddy. I don't know if it's the Dream World effect on the coloring or whatnot, but being unable to properly use Bloodhound on the killer whose very rare addon is to make even healthy survivors bleed (for some... reason) just feels like a slap to the face.
But yeah, Predator is actively shooting yourself in the foot, it needs changed.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3499464#Comment_3499464
You miss read. I said blindness, not oblivious. Sheep block for example causes blindness, which blocks survivor aura reading. This would allow Freddy to counter perks like WOO after a survivor walks through his snares.
The Sheep Block already feels like one of Freddy's better addons, which given how rarely I see other killers run blindness-inflicting addons, that really says something about the state of this poor man's addons right now.
I'd love to see Freddy get some significant upgrades, but even tiny adjustments like the one offered in this discussion almost feels like getting your hopes up too high. Though I think maybe Freddy was sort of doomed the moment they chose to bring in the 2010 version rather than the original. Could you imagine Rob Zombie's version of Michael Myers in Dead by Daylight? Like people not into horror don't confuse the poor guy with Jason Voorhees enough already.
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@pseudechis said:
The face looks like Kryten from Red Dwarf.
Compare that picture, just the expression... to this...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NIL6Y3CMOP73/download.jpg
Tell me which encapsulates a horror experience more.
I'm sorry but that DBD pinhead picture is crap.
I actually like the new Pinhead portrait. It doesn't look terrifying in the slightest, I absolutely agree, but it seems to encapsulate who Pinhead is as an individual well, in my opinion. He's sophisticated, regal, wielding his chains with no visible effort being put into the gesture.
It's been a while since I've watched Hellraiser, so forgive any misremembering on my part, but Pinhead never seemed to be trying for intimidation or fear in his audience. He wasn't even the antagonist in the first two films, instead hauling away the real villains off to where they deserve to be. Unlike plenty of horror icons who are trying their hardest to scare and slaughter, Pinhead is just... there. You opened the box, he's here now, and depending on the perspective, he can be viewed as angelic to those he appears to. Compare that to other horror movie icons who are just downright villainous or at the very least unable to be reasoned with, Pinhead is almost a saint in comparison. You actually have the opportunity to talk with the guy. Will it necessarily get you anywhere? No. But just being able to makes Pinhead far more diplomatic than most horror movie icons.
That's just my take, though. I can certainly see the appeal for a more conventionally terrifying portrait, but Pinhead just IS terrifying without having to really do anything. I think it's fitting that he's just standing there looking contemplative, but anyone who knows the character knows yeah, you're screwed now. Even if you can have a somewhat polite interaction before having your soul torn apart.
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I think having both snares and dream pallets would up his unpredictability, which is definitely a good thing! I don't pretend to know whether it would make him a bit stronger or not, mechanic-wise, but I'll take anything for Freddy at this point. Unless it's another complete rework, please no. X3
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I don't pretend to know whether it's too strong or not, but it's definitely annoying, especially with killers like Michael Myers whose only power is to slap people down when they're healthy.
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Pinhead looks like he's pondering the meaning of life. Which is pain, of course, but what flavors of pain for which circumstances?
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Oh boy. Time to list every Aviators song I know. (If you're not familiar with Aviators, you can easily find their music on YouTube.) Also, I'm stealing the OP's listing format because it's nice and tidy. X3
Legion
- Song: Slasher
- Artist: Aviators
- Reason: Aside from the song being about a bunch of people going out on a murder spree? The overall feel of the music just feels very Legion-y to me. And a lot of the lyrics seem fitting. "Our eyes shift out to one more face," might be insignificant, but it signifies a plural, which makes me immediately think of the Legion. "Somehow these kills won't make us whole, we've sold our souls," could reference their eternal service to the Entity. And, "We all fall the same," sounds like something a bunch of edgy teens would say. Societal standing and morality mean nothing when we're all the same when we're corpses, right?
Ghost Face
- Song: Remains
- Artist: Aviators
- Reason: Aside from being a song about a serial killer who views killing as art and compares himself to a god leading them to the afterlife? Ghost Face seems like the type to sensationalize and romanticize murdering people, viewing his victims as canvases and himself as the artist. The way the music sounds also seems to fit. Sort of a gentle ring plays throughout the song. I don't really know a lot of music terminology, so that's the best way I can describe it. All of the lyrics have a poetic sort of beauty to them, but here's one in particular: "Play the game, paint your scene. Taking this to the extreme." What are the trials but the Entity's game? And what is the Entity's game but one he's always up to play?
Doctor
- Song: God Syndrome
- Artist: Madame Macabre
- Reason: The name should be telling enough, since aside from the Trickster, I feel like the Doctor is perhaps top of the list of being a person who probably equates their standing to godhood. The song even has a medical spin on it. "For if they're to die, poor taste, might as well preserve their vitals. What a waste!" While the singer kills out of holy retribution, I feel like the medical parallels and arrogance are enough to make this fit for our doctor. Also the line, "Though you were the monster here? How sad." I always got the impression that the Doctor knows what a horrible person he is, but he just doesn't care and thrives in it.
Nightmare
- Song: Monster
- Artist: Meg and Dia
- Reason: I won't go into detail here due to the song's topic, but uh, if you know anything about the remake version of Freddy Krueger, you can maybe infer what that is. I will say that this lyric fits him perfectly: "Then he slowly saw their nightmares were his dreams."
Dredge
- Song: Monster Made of Memories
- Artist: Citizen Soldier
- Reason: This one might be a stretch, but given we don't know exactly what the Dredge is, I'm going to take some liberties. It's possible that the Dredge could be a creature that existed before and merely "repurposed" the garden's residents' bodies. It's also possible that the Dredge IS the garden's residents - an amalgamation of all their horrors and traumas. Or maybe both. So this song could be from the Dredge's perspective or the garden's residents singing about the Dredge. "It's alive like a parasite inside of me and it feeds on the trauma of what used to be." Pretty fitting for a bunch of trauma crammed into a weird haphazardly designed flesh monster.
Wraith
- Song: Scarecrow
- Artist: Citizen Soldier
- Reason: The song is about a person isolating and hiding inside themselves so as not to face what they've been through, which isn't specified. Surviving his entire village (and more) being razed and then learning that he's been partaking in that corporate money-making machine at the expense of innocents makes me feel like he'd be terrified. "Disappearing hurts less than asking for help," just really screams the Wraith to me when his very power is to disappear.
Plague
- Song: My Church
- Artist: Aviators
- Reason: The song (from what I can tell) is about a man starting up a cult and trying to attain godhood in a post-apocalyptic setting, but the religious themes in general remind me of the Plague. And the singer also seems to be questioning his faith, even when it's "all his own creation," in his own words. Faith and questioning said faith remind me heavily of the Plague. Also, "Now our bloody hands will heal the unclean," just screams Plague to me.
Trickster
- Song: Feed Me With Your Heart
- Artist: ponyphonic
- Reason: Pony music, but hear me out. The song is from the perspective of a sociopathic entity who feeds on the adoration and love of her victims. I could absolutely imagine the Trickster using fans' unconditional adoration for him for his own gain, whether it be to make his "music" or whatever else he might require. "Your parasitic paramour will steal your heart and then I'll leave you and you'll never love again." Yeah, you definitely won't if you're dead. And if you somehow survive, you've probably got some heck of trust issues now.
The Shape
- Song: An Unhealthy Obsession
- Artist: The Blake Robinson Synthetic Orchestra
- Reason: With "obsession" in the title, Michael Myers might immediately come to mind given he introduced the obsession mechanic into Dead by Daylight. The song features lyrics about, well, stalking people. "Some call it stalking, I say walking - just extremely close behind." It has a more humorous tone that honestly reminds me more of Ghost Face, but having a song about stalking not being about Michael Myers seems blasphemous, almost.
... I'll think of more later, probably. XD
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For survivor, Kindred, Bond, and Deja Vu are godsends. I still have trouble finding generators on indoor maps like the Executioner's map, so having Bond and Deja Vu basically erases any complications with that. And Deja Vu can also be a quick way of telling if a killer has Corrupt Intervention and where to go if so.
For killer, Agitation and Iron Grasp are my default when I don't know what perks to slap on. I feel so slow and uncoordinated without them. And Iron Grasp is basically a middle finger to anyone running Boil Over. XD Information perks are something I struggle without. I'm trying to wean myself off of them to observe survivor habits without relying on perks, but it's not going too well, I'll admit. Heck, there are plenty of times I get bamboozled mid-chase and I'm just like, "Am I blind?"
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@Exerlin said:
Addons in their current state are boring since most just straight up buff the killer's power. I don't like how the only way to modify the killer's power is by using consumables found randomly when spending bloodpoints on that specific killer. I hate how there's no way to tweak a killer's power without using a consumable. I want to be able to have at least some choice on what the specifics of the killer's power is without praying to the bloodweb to keep me stacked with my addons of choice. The game would be a lot more interesting, in my opinion, if there were different types of each killer power with upsides and downsides available to choose without the ability to run out of them. I really, really don't want to use all 248 of the 2 addons that I've gotten used to and then be forced to either insert bloodpoints into the RNG dispenser or use different addons. That just kinda trains you on stuff that you won't always have, and it'll sting when you're 200,000 bloodpoints deep and didn't even get enough for 1 game. It's wack I hate it, I will play without addons
I completely agree. Addons that change the killer's power (and addons in general, honestly) should be something you can choose without having to rely on good bloodweb chance. I love playing as Scratched Mirror Myers, the Pig with Amanda's Letter, and other killers with exceedingly rare addons that shake up what survivors will be expecting. But I find myself just hoarding those addons more than actually using them because I know they'll be gone eventually if I do.
Even addons that don't rework the killer's power I feel like shouldn't be left to consumables. I enjoy playing as the Twins, but I'm scared to even use the Toy Sword addon because I fear I'll use it and it'll become painful to play without it. Yeah, it's a brown addon, so there should be plenty, but even if you have an unlimited amount, that still basically forces you to use half of your addon slots because now you can't comfortably play as the killer without that addon. It's what happened to Lynxi, a Twins player I've watched videos they've made, and I don't want the same thing to happen to me. It kind of feels like the Combat Straps addon for the Pig when her crouch/uncrouch action took obscenely long however long ago that was. It's just painful to play without certain addons once you're used to them.
I'm not really sure how this would be changed in Dead by Daylight, though. Earning and spending bloodpoints has always been one of the fundamental mechanics of incentives and just how the game works overall. If addons for killers and addons/items for survivors weren't something to be earned, what even would be? Offerings? Most of them are terrible.
I'm not saying that it's a system that can't be fixed, by any means. It's just that it would require a massive change in how things work. Does anyone have any thoughts on how such a change would work? I'd be curious to hear your ideas! :)
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@Raptorrotas said:
Well, i think the first 2 options are the most popular addon type.
The addons that boost variables ( range cooldown, recharge, speed) are most commonly the strongest and most popular choice for killers. See the whole nurse drama last year and the general complaints by survivors about these kinda addons especially fotm blight.
Personally I think that transformative addons which change the ability totally ( myers mirror or tombstone come to mind) should rather be alternative abilities using the ability/item slot for killers.
Ohhh, I didn't even think about that! I think that would be amazing! Honestly, it is kind of annoying having to dedicate a limited resource just to play the version of the killer you want to play. I'd run Amanda's Letter on the Pig every game I play as her, but that's just not practical. Yeah, bloodpoints are abundant, but you can go through millions of them without ever getting even one copy of what you're actually looking for.
I'd be curious how balancing would work for a system like that. Most addons that completely change a killer's power are very rare or ultra rare. That doesn't necessarily equate to being powerful in every circumstance, but it makes me wonder if there would have to be some sort of system to keep things balanced. Maybe if variations of a killer's power were something you could just toggle or swap, it would require some tweaks to make sure it isn't abused? But honestly, I don't really think that would even be necessary. Scratched Mirror Myers and such are faced all the time without issue, it's just that securing those addons can be extremely unreliable.
What do you guys think, though? Would making certain different killer power variations require any further tweaking for balance? Or would it be fine to simply make a sort of on/off switch and leave it at that?
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490725#Comment_3490725
I've never played Pinhead but I enjoy him very much ! I didn't know about Chatterer's Tooth but it sounds really fun =)
I've heard of that playstyle as well, but honestly Pinhead is one of my favorite killers to face. Without even touching on his balance (which in my opinion, he's at a really nice spot), most Pinheads I encounter are really well behaved. I've never been BM'd by this killer, and while they're almost never friendly or farming, they usually play very fair and won't go out of their way to be super ruthless. At least the ones I've faced =)
So know that you have at least one person on this playerbase that has high regard for your killer pick xD
Yeah, any perk or addon that lets me smack people unaware is an instant favorite of mine. X3 Brings some actual horror to the horror game, even if it's just a jumpscare.
I love facing Pinhead, too. Resident Evil is nice and all, but I know absolutely nothing about it and while I'm happy people have characters from a franchise they love, I have no personal attachment. So having Pinhead (which is the most recent iteration of a licensed killer I'm familiar with and also the best integration of a licensed killer, in my opinion) is something I thematically and mechanically love. I have had instances of painful trials against Pinhead, though. Sloppy Butcher and constant chain hunts make it impossible to heal yourself. Constant chain hunts in general make trying to do anything miserable, honestly. But facing against Cenobites who actually use their ability in chase and don't just go on a box hunt the whole game is one of my favorites.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490675#Comment_3490675
Hag has in my opinion the best set of addons in that regard, she has a solid kit that just enhance her power and then when you get to purples and iris it's pure fun ! =D
I'm also very fond of the Doctor's rarer addons, I think it's extremely fun as survivor to have the red stain following you or illusion TRs, stuff that make you stay on your toes and that you wouldn't expect from the killer usually.
I don't really have an opinion on Tombstone Piece, I've never played it and I think I've only played against it once, and it was with the infinite tier 3. I feel like it's much stronger than your usual gameplay-altering addon, but at the same time I rarely ever see it played, so my opinion is just an opinion, and a barely informed one at that. =)
Yeah, that's pretty much it, I have no idea how it fits in the balance of the game but so far it hasn't bothered me personally X)
I really enjoy playing as the Hag, though lately I've been trying to improve my overall chasing skills, which the Hag's methods of hitting and downing survivors is far from conventional. It's fun, I love it, but I'm not going to get better trying to smack someone down as Pinhead by playing the Hag, for example. XD
Oh yeah, the Doctor's addons are great, too! I haven't played as Giggles in a while. I should do that.
Yeah, beyond what you mentioned, I'm not really sure what to make of the Tombstone addons, myself. I know a popular point against them is that you're being heavily punished for teammates' mistakes, but I just view that as the survivor experience in general, really. I do agree that it's incredibly strong to just slap someone out of a trial without any hooking involved and that it's annoying to instantly lose the game like that for the player getting mori'd, but I'm probably getting gored by the killer anyways, so I honestly don't think much of it. XD
Since I mentioned Pinhead at the start of this reply, I'd like to add that I really enjoy his Chatterer's Tooth addon. Being Undetectable is one of my favorite things as a killer. That, and I don't like adopting what seems to be the typical Pinhead playstyle of "force a constant chain hunt and win that way." There was a period of time when people would quit anytime I tried to play as the Box Boy and I'm just like, "Dudes, calm down, I don't even care about my box. It can take care of itself!" XD
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@HugTheHag said:
I think it's for all three, but I'm really fond of the "changes gameplay" ones. They're fun and fresh.
I completely agree! I figure when most people think of gameplay changing addons, they probably think of the infamous Tombstone Piece. I don't really have much of an opinion on the addon, personally, since I don't see it much and don't use it. But I know a lot of people hate it, which is kind of sad because I worry that people will extend the dislike to all killer addons that change how a killer is played.
A lot of people have problems with Michael Myers in Dead by Daylight, but he along with the Hag really encompass what I feel like addons should offer. Their addons provide such diversity in their playstyles. I feel like for a lot of killers, you can still achieve variety, but it's mostly through perk combinations. I love being able to play as a killer where the survivors won't immediately know what they're up against when they hear the terror radius.
Just out of curiosity, do you have an opinion on the Tombstone Piece addon for Michael Myers? I have some thoughts on it, but I feel like I don't have enough information to form a proper opinion, so I'd be open to discussing it, if you or anyone is interested. :3
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Michael Myers with either no terror radius or a tiny terror radius courtesy of Dead Rabbit or Monitor and Abuse is always something that will legitimately scare me. Stealth killers in general make me nervous. If no one's getting chased for a while at the start of the game, I just start worrying and panning my camera all over the place while sitting on a generator, then breathe a sigh of relief when I either hear the terror radius or I see someone else is in a chase. Could still be a stealthy killer for the latter, but at least I probably won't get yoinked off my generator right then and there. But while stealthy killers in general put me on edge, Michael Myers just has a unique quality that makes him scarier. Which is weird because a lot of people consider him to be the weakest killer in the game.
This will get me laughed at, but... the Trapper's traps scare me. Even though I know mechanically they can be a joke when you free yourself first try or whatnot, but hearing that snap when I least expect it will always give me an adrenaline rush.
Thematically, the Doctor has to be the scariest for me, because medical horror is probably one of the most relatable concepts that a killer in this game revolves around. Things like being the target of a sick-minded individual are obviously terrifying, of course, but those aren't recurring aspects of most people's everyday lives. Tragedy strikes and terrible people exist, but having the fear for your health (both physical and mental) and having to put that health in the hands of someone you don't even know, that is something I feel like plenty of people contend with on a day-to-day basis.
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Tentative vote here.
Hope is fine, having a massive condition to be met that often isn't met.
Made For This is a perk I'm not really sure what to think about. In practice, I honestly don't really even notice it when I play as a killer. But I know that I'm not a high level killer, so the survivors I'm facing definitely aren't utilizing the perk to its fullest potential. I can easily imagine how devastating an additional 3% movement speed can be for a survivor who's extremely skilled at looping, however, even if the killer is evenly matched in chasing.
It kind of feels like Boon: Dark Theory in that it does nothing for lower to maybe even middle level survivors in terms of skill, but if you're highly skilled, you don't really need the help. An additional 2% isn't going to do anything if you don't know how to run different loops efficiently, and while 2% could squeeze even more time out of powerful loops for good runners, the survivor in question is probably at a skill level where they don't need it to be efficient.
However, Boon: Dark Theory is a boon. It has a limited range, requires setup, and depending on totem placement, it might not even encompass loops worth getting extra use of. You could probably hunt down a totem that's well-placed, but the point of extra movement speed is to help in chases. The point of chases is to give more time for generators. So why not just sit on a generator at that point?
Made For This, however, is just... a constant effect. The injured requirement is barely a requirement. Given the change to medkits and the frequent use of Sloppy Butcher (from what I've seen lately, at least) it's honestly probably better to just stay injured. Doesn't waste time and makes you faster, so honestly, why would you even heal yourself in that scenario? A survival horror game where the victims actively choose to stay vulnerable to their pursuer because it's actually a benefit seems really silly in concept. And that's not even getting into game mechanics. Some killers' powers are basically rendered inert when survivors choose to stay injured, and now with this perk, they have even more incentive to just stay injured.
You could say that Resilience is in the same ball park of possessing the sole requirement of being injured, which is true, of course, but Resilience isn't a constant effect while injured. You either have to be vaulting to make use out of it, or risk staying injured for increased speed on generators and whatnot. And with Resilience, aside from vaulting speed (which is hardly to be dismissed, of course, but it remains just one thing) there's nothing protecting you should the killer happen upon you. Made For This applies a constant speed boost, and in what scenario is increased movement speed not beneficial? Even if it's just hopping to a new generator faster, it's always being helpful.
Not to say that Resilience isn't helpful, but I feel like there's a more balanced risk/reward ratio with Resilience whereas with Made For This, you have more rewards with less risk involved. Yeah, both perks require the same condition of being injured, but when Made For This makes you faster all the time, being injured suddenly isn't as much of a risk as it once was. I suppose technically it's the same risk involved with both perks, but I feel like you get more consistent use out of Made For This than Resilience.
And you definitely get more use out of Made For This than Boon: Dark Theory. Unlimited range, no setup required, larger speed boost. It's a far superior version of Boon: Dark Theory with basically none of the requirements of Boon: Dark Theory.
Having said all of that, does that make Made For This problematic? I don't pretend to know. Though I will say it feels thematically ridiculous encouraging survivors to stay injured when they should be fearing for their lives. I will also say that it definitely feels like a perk that is useless in the hands of some and perhaps overpowered in the hands of others. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, given that most perks in Dead by Daylight basically amount to "run perk, get use out of perk" without any skill involved. I like the idea of perks that have more nuance beyond merely using a perk slot, but this same aspect makes balancing an absolute nightmare, because how do you balance something that is both almost worthless and god-tier at the same time, depending on who's using it?
I think Made For This brings into question whether perks should vary in usefulness depending on utilization of the player, or if perks should generally remain "equip it and forget it," if that makes sense, like most are currently. If we can answer that question, maybe we can better analyze what exactly Made For This brings to the game, and whether that is something we want to keep or not.
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The only thing I really dislike about the hatch (beyond the occasional survivor just waiting for their team to die) is what I believe people call "slugging for the 4k." I've had a lot of games as a survivor when there are only two people left, but one is left on the ground as bait for the other because I guess the possibility of the fourth survivor escaping via the hatch is absolutely unacceptable to some people? So it just becomes a game of "Heal downed survivor, one of the two remaining gets slapped back down, rinse/repeat until both survivors have been neutralized." I guess in terms of the possibility of getting more bloodpoints from healing and being chased, that could technically be a positive, but 1.) Bloodpoints are in abundance now and 2.) If there are two or three generators that still need done with two survivors remaining, there's no hope for either of them beyond one dying and the other maybe finding the hatch.
But at that point it isn't the hope of "winning," it's just the hope of getting to the next game. People generally don't like playing or watching games where the outcome is already decided. Refusing to let someone the possibility of getting the hatch and instead drawing out the game in order to secure four kills almost feels like a baseball team going up to bat in the 9th inning after the losing team has had their turn at bat for the 9th inning. It's completely redundant in baseball (which is why it doesn't happen) and I feel like it's similarly redundant in Dead by Daylight.
Though I'm also of the opinion that changes to the hatch system won't change anything. It's players' overwhelming need to not just win, but completely dominate that causes the most undesirable situations in the game. There could be the best implementation of mechanics that a 4v1 has ever seen in gaming history and people would still find ways to make the game unfun for themselves and, by extension, possibly others.
Really I think all people need to make this game fun and balanced in their mind is for them to change their perspective and expectations.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I would definitely recommend getting out of the mindset that resources need to be conserved. A lack of resources is a symptom of bad gen speed, not a cause of issues in the mid to late game.
"Saving pallets" is a pervasive talking point among streamers and players that has never really gone away, and I think it's bad advice for newer survivors. If your first chase goes for 3 gens and you use half the pallets on the map, you're still outpacing the resources vs objectives despite chucking pallets with reckless abandon. That killer has 1 hook with 2 gens remaining. The survivors have to massively fumble at that point.
The strongest thing a survivor can do is be chased and not go down. Have a chase that ends without a hook or a slug. The killer effectively did nothing while gens were worked on. If you burn 60 seconds and don't get hooked, nobody is batting an eye at shack pallet being gone. There are 2000 other pallets on the map.
The biggest thing I had to coach into players in comp was that greeding pallets and taking hits at otherwise safe pallets throws games. It doesn't make someone a good survivor. It's a bad play to take a hit at a safe tile.
Know when to loop, and obviously know how to position your camera and utilize check spots. But also know when to just chuck the pallet and force a break.
I agree with a lot of the points here. Honestly, if generators aren't popping if a chase is lasting a decent amount of time, then there's probably no amount of skill or strategy to save the game there from a survivor perspective.
I guess my problem is anytime I drop a pallet, I just hear Monto playing as a killer going, "Thank you!" Because yeah, I'm aware that a lot of content creators really frown upon early dropping of pallets, but I'm also fully aware of those same content creators raising brows at greedy plays by survivors. So it just seems like a balance that needs struck, but I'm terrible at maintaining balances, especially in games.
It's probably just something I need to get a feel for. I've been having more luck lately using Head On and Quick and Quiet, honestly, because it opens up a whole new resource that can't be depleted, basically. But there are a lot of people who would have a conniption at the thought of risking going into a locker. So it's probably just contextual for every individual player and what happens to work best for them and, by extension, their team.
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@DavidHypnos said:
I have to point out: flashlights are still very useful too. They just aren’t useful to ME in particular lol
Oh yeah, flashlights are definitely useful in the right hands. They're just definitely not useful in mine. XD
But I wonder how useful finding a flashlight mid-trial is. I figure most people intending to use a flashlight will just bring their own superior one with the addons they want before the game even starts. The only exception I can think of is Residual Manifest. Don't bring an item, scrounge up a flashlight, and surprise the killer when you have a flashlight he didn't see in the lobby. But that entails hunting down a chest, looting it twice, and then being in a situation to actually use it, which is all time probably better spent just working on a generator.
I feel like if you're looting a chest in Dead by Daylight, it's because you're desperate for a means of healing yourself. And you end up getting a worn out toolbox instead a good chunk of the time.
I'm not sure just being able to guarantee medkits from chests (without perks that guarantee otherwise) would be a good idea, but with the slowed healing rates and only being able to use a medkit once unless perks/addons are involved, it makes me wonder if it really would be so bad. I don't pretend to know what's best for the balance of the game at all, really. I just feel like chests as they are currently are just something survivors do if they feel absolutely certain they're going to get out, and that's assuming they don't already have a superior item on their person, which feels kind of sad to me having an optional thing to do in the trial that more often than not is probably just a waste of precious time.
But it's very likely that there are factors I'm not taking into consideration and that chests are actually more useful in-game than I give them credit for. What do you guys think?
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This one's probably a stretch, but I wanted to come up with something for Philip, so here it is:
The Wraith feels similar to the monster from A Monster Calls, in a way (which isn't really a horror movie, but with a giant creature and the ever-present themes of loss and soon-to-arrive death, I feel like it's similar enough for this purpose.)
They share a similar aesthetic, the monster being a literal tree who takes a humanoid shape when it wants to.
But I feel their habits and even motives can share some subtle similarities, especially if one's willing to imagine Philip outside of the Entity's influence.
They both have a recurring habit that seems habitual and/or compulsive. The monster appears to the boy at a specific time barring one occasion (which I'll get to later) while the Wraith literally has no choice but to ring his bell to cloak and uncloak. The latter can be easily dismissed as a mandatory gameplay mechanic, but even in a different genre of horror completely separate from game rules, I feel like Philip would still adhere to this ritual. Because of the why behind it.
It's been speculated that the Wraith rings his bell to warn survivors of his approach. In his past, he rang his father's bell to signal danger, but now he himself is the danger, so he warns others that he's coming. Even with his ultra rare addon that silences his bell, he still goes through the motions of ringing it. I relate many killers' ultra rare addons to the Entity and its hold over them, so I think it's rather symbolic that while the Entity can and will prevent the Wraith from signaling to his victims his approach, Philip, either in a last act of defiance and/or his humanity refusing to be completely erased, he still rings that bell, however silently.
The above is just speculation, really, but it's widely accepted that the Wraith is one of the most morally aligned of all the killers, having a tragic backstory as opposed to him just deciding he wanted to torture and kill people.
The monster from A Monster Calls is similarly benevolent. Its appearance to and recurring presence with the boy is all in an attempt to help him cope with what will without question come to be the loss of his mother, as well as being a key part in the boy's ability to let go of his guilt and not be forever dragged down by his grief.
Back to the monster's "schedule" of appearing at a set time, it only breaks this routine when the boy exclaims to it, "I need you now!" Obviously, in a 4v1 slaughter game, there's going to be no opportunity for the Wraith to canonically have a similar deviation from his norm. But if he wasn't so strictly bound by the rules of the Entity, I could absolutely see him only breaking from his ritual when someone needs him and is desperately crying for his help. The Wraith's entire purpose of ringing his bell (assuming the speculation has any merit) is to help survivors by warning them. If in a different world where he wasn't an emotional vampire's plaything, what little we've seen of Philip just screams to me that he would similarly cause discomfort to himself (because compulsions are a menace to try and break away from) if it meant helping someone or sparing them a terrible fate like his.
So uh, yeah, those are my thoughts. Because Philip would absolutely be a benevolent monster if it weren't for the Entity and you can't convince me otherwise. X3
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@Sava18 said:
There's a good chance you are simply reading the killer better as time goes on. Understanding and remembering your opponents playstyle and tendencies is something both sides have in common and is one of the harder things in this game.
I am also with you on the not dropping things early. It's one thing to not use too many pallets early, it's another to not drop any out of greed. I find myself doing the latter my first game of the day.
Yeah, that makes sense. A lot of it's probably subconscious. It just doesn't SEEM like I'm retaining much from chases, that's for sure, heh.
As for the pallet usage, I struggle with finding that good balance of refusing to touch them and just throwing them down. I think I just need more practice in chases, period, but it's hard to get that experience when every chase doesn't last as long as I'd like. That and I swear I mind-game myself 98% of the time and just end up right in the killer's arms because I thought they'd double back or something. XD
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All bloodpoint offerings beyond bloody party streamers or anniversary cakes just serve as bloodweb filler, in my mind. I feel bad for killers whose best addons are common, uncommon, or rare. There are webs where you basically just get bloodpoint offerings and nothing to actually spend those points on. And map offerings just need to go period, I think. Love seeing a bunch of green on a killer whose rare addons I like only to realize they're a bunch of map offerings.
And obviously it's a similar boat for survivors, too.
I want to like offerings for both survivor and killer sides, but most of them just feel like a waste of bloodpoints. Especially when you're excited for ultra rare killer addons and you're just staring into the sockets of two or three ebony moris.
I don't know, me personally, I don't see the point of having greater ease of getting bloodpoints when over half of it is stuff you don't even want.