ArthurVeloso
ArthurVeloso
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@ArthurVeloso said:
I just found an YouTube video showing other points that I have not addressed in my text. For those who are interested to see why nerfing sprint burst is a bad idea.
I just got YouTube to quick summary the main points of this video for those who want to save time:
Key takeaways from the discussion:
• Ineffectiveness of the Nerf: The creator uses gameplay footage with AI bots to demonstrate that Sprint Burst is often used minimally (e.g., to reach a nearby loop) rather than being a game-breaking mechanic. They argue that skilled killers can easily play around it, and the perk itself offers only a few seconds of extra chase time (0:51 - 2:00, 10:26 - 10:46).
• Impact on New Players: The creator emphasizes that Sprint Burst is one of the first perks new players acquire. By nerfing it, the developers are making the game more frustrating for beginners, while potentially pushing them toward 'pay-to-win' perks that are considered superior (7:50 - 8:40, 11:05 - 11:20).
• Lack of Accountability: Flvffy critiques the portion of the community that constantly calls for nerfs, suggesting it reflects a 'lack of accountability' among killers who fail to learn how to mind-game or use their killer powers effectively. They argue that developers shouldn't base balance changes on complaints from players who are unwilling to improve (2:24 - 2:40, 6:00 - 6:45, 12:34 - 12:57)
• Meta Shift Concerns: The creator suggests that this change won't stop survivors from using movement-based strategies and will ultimately lead to a worse overall experience for both sides, as it removes a foundational tool without addressing core gameplay issues (4:28 - 5:35, 9:05 - 9:30). -
I just found an YouTube video showing other points that I have not addressed in my text. For those who are interested to see why nerfing sprint burst is a bad idea.
https://youtu.be/TPYYfGpwR7o?is=9P_8sY0pTuxqUbtM -
@AliceNull said:
They're actually going to be buffing a large number of perks during the upcoming midchapter, some of them directly in response to Diminishing Returns (really hopeful for buffs to Empathic Connection on the healing side. Also Dark Theory. You know what? Buff Parental Guidance while you're at it BHVR, give Yoichi the clean sweep he deserves.) IIRC around 45~ perk updates, shared between roles, with a huge focus on buffs with VERY few nerfs that are entirely focused on perks not affected by DR so much (almost certainly resurgence). Really looking forward to seeing what they choose to buff and update for that patch, theres a lot of perks I think are cool design wise but don't have the right numbers or need small mechanical tweaks.
Thanks a lot for your reply and for being polite. I really appreciate it! I hope they don't nerf Sprint Burst tho, or at least just make it not stack with other haste perks. A 2-second speed bonus seems too much to make it pretty much dead like they did with Decisive Strike back in 6.1.0. I agree with you that healing perks should be buffed to make them viable or to make a build around healing viable.
I will share, if you don't mind, my play style in most games. I play solo all the time, and usually twice a week (job and university). My MMR may be around medium to high (since I have played for 5 years). However, in solo queue, in my matches, my teammates drop like flies most of the time, so I began playing as a full-time healer in most of my matches for the sake of the game lasting a bit longer and for fun as well. After diminishing returns set in, I was literally forced to stop playing my builds and occasionally play Sprint and Lithe. I don't feel that looking only at numbers (like many people getting Sprint Burst) will ever show the full picture of why people are actually picking four perks a lot. Gosh, in a game with Spine Chill only working when a killer has line of sight on you, Team Work perks being absolutely counterproductive, and certain perks literally being dependent on other perks to actually have a mid effect (Orela Perk - aka Rapid Response), it becomes clear why people choose what they chose.
Not all perks need to make a huge thing to actually work and have a decent effect. It is actually tiring to be working around perks when they should, in theory, work for us and our preferred play style. Simplicity and effectiveness are the secret to an ideal perk balance.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4067704#Comment_4067704
What are you on about? I literally proofed it mathematically that fixated is not neccessary. There are moments where you should walk the last meters and fixated would help, but thise blood gens are so far away from bloodpumps that normal gens are better. So normal gen progress perks are better than fixated (on that note: perks like de ja vu also work on blood gens or am i wrong?)
Your mathematics does not consider the fact that killers are running slow down perks, and the fact that if you get spotted in the middle of a walk, you will have to do another trip the station again. There many other variables that you don’t see and include in your numbers. With all due respect of course.
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I am not sure why they designed this so we are forced to bring fixated in every match.
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And just for the record, I play both sides, and I main clown. I have noticed that I have gotten much more wins as him than as a survivor with NO SLOWDOWN WHATSOEVER. Matches are way too easy, and the challenge is way too little for one side, while the other is being miserable for YEARS!
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@EbonyChess said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045501#Comment_4045501
Just because we are playing a mature game doesn't mean we want to be raige baited or harrassed, bro.
That’s my point. Thank you for understanding.
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@BlackRabies said:
Long as it's not hacking or holding the game hostage forcing the other player to D/C to get out. Any in game action isn't really punishable simply walking back and forth over a slug trampling, humping w/e you want to call it is not more worse than 4 survivors tea bagging the killer. If you're over sensitive over such a thing I really don't recommend playing DBD as it has one of the most toxic communities I've ever seen.
Your also very lucky to have no game chat at all since consoles don't have it. End game chat either goes 1 of 3 ways. Gg which is rare, nothing and everyone just insta leaves or every slur is throw out in chat because one side didn't like how the other side played.
That’s the real problem with this game and “community”, sexual harassment is always dismissed from conversations because some players refuse to recognize the seriousness of the problem and ways to address it. Note that no one in this comment section did not even addressed the other points that I have asked to be addressed. Instead, they perpetuate a narrative that harassment is not for “sensitive” people. The lack of empathy, compassion, and respect in this forum is what makes my new player experience and many others so hard. We can’t have the minimum of humanity and understanding over the necessity to be “winning” an argument here. I am done. You guys really need to reflect more on your own positions in this situation.
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@GeneralV said:
Yeah, I think Med-kits were overnerfed a little bit.
If you go through older threads on the Forums, you'll see healing was rarely ever complained about. For a long time Self-Care was a healthy perk and part of the meta: it didn't give you an insane speed but it did allow you to heal yourself. That only changed around Spirit's release, when the healing action going from 12 charges to 16 absolutely murdered the perk. After that you had to have a Med-Kit to heal yourself, which were absolutely fine by themselves.
No one had a problem with healing until it was allowed to reach extreme levels with the original iterations of COH, which seems to have been a perk created with Hexes in mind: a powerful effect which can be removed from the trial. But Boons cannot be permanently destroyed, so that perk was unquestionably overpowered and it had to be changed.
The Med-Kit nerf was too much, I don't think it should have happened.
That’s correct! Nobody was complaining about that until circle of healing come to play and stack everything together. Med Kits were nerf as a consequence of CoH stacking, but they were fine by themselves before specially if you run Franklin’s Demise.
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@th3 said:
Just wish there was a point to having brown, yellow, green, and purple rarities of medkits since they are all the same. Clutters up the bloodwebs and just feel pointless. I think removing brown and yellow medkits would be better while revisiting some other items like keys and maps to improve their usefulness/versatility.
Exactly! There is no point in running different tear med kits for self healing because they all are the same speed. It is really ridiculous how they were over nerfed.
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True, there is no point in running different med kits anymore. You need med kits for self heal since altruistic heal is already faster.
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@bjorksnas said:
Medkits were nerfed for a few reasons
- Reusablility, with medkits, perks, and charge addons, you could easily get 2 basekit + 1 from charge addon + 1 syringe for 4 heals off just items alone on each survivor, throw in something like built to last that 1 medkit is now good for 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 for a total of 10 heals. Thats just silly and thats with just the item and 1 perk
- Time efficiency, survivors objective takes ~450 seconds of repairing gens, healing yourself took 16s, being healed by someone else takes a cumulative 32s, being able to half the time wasted in a match by being self sufficient for every time you need to be healed adds up quickly, throw 4 survivors into it and the discrepency in time spent is better than the time most toolboxes buy. Brown medkit 16s saved, brown toolbox 5.33s saved, even a commodius only saves 10.66s, and thats off one heal from a brown medkit
- Speed, you could heal off injuries at a silly rate pre update you could bring a green medkit, botany knowledge, resilience, and deperate measures for a minimum 123% healing speed, a 7 second self heal just shouldn't happen, and after it does you shouldn't be able to do it a second time or use a syringe with the same effect. And when they were nerfed circle of healing was still around so just assume its another 50% on top of that.
Medkits are now in a more balanced spot, they give a bit of independence buy a bit of time by freeing up a teammate, provide healing at moments in a match where it can make a difference.
You shouldn't be able to heal yourself 10 times per game
You shouldn't be able to save 16s minimum every time the killer hits you with their weapon recovering
And you shouldn't be able to heal in 7s from a multi use item
Let’s break down each point of your argument while advocating for a substantive buff to MedKits, because the current state is overly punishing survivors without truly addressing the supposed “balance” you’re defending.
1. Reusability with Add-ons and Perks
You argue that survivors could potentially achieve 10 heals through perks like Built to Last and MedKit add-ons. Sure, in theory this could happen, but let’s be honest: how often does it actually play out like this in real games? Survivors still have to survive long enough to use all those heals, which isn’t guaranteed. High-skill killers can easily interrupt heals, down survivors quickly, and pressure the map. Also, if a survivor is wasting time stacking 10 heals instead of working on gens, they're hurting the team’s objective. Healing 10 times might sound overpowered on paper, but in reality, survivors who heal that much are usually buying time for the killer, not breaking the game.
A balanced buff would rein in this overuse without completely crippling personal healing. The nerf shouldn't be a blanket penalty; it should target excessive reusability specifically through diminishing returns on certain add-ons or perks, rather than punishing base MedKits.
2. Time Efficiency in Objectives
You mention that healing yourself takes 16 seconds compared to 32 seconds when healed by others, and argue that halving this time makes MedKits more efficient than toolboxes. But that’s the point of MedKits! They were designed to allow survivors to heal themselves efficiently when needed. Taking away that efficiency disrupts the balance between survivors and killers. Survivors already face time pressure to complete gens, unhook teammates, and avoid getting downed by killers who can apply constant map pressure.
Yes, efficient healing saved time, but that time bought was essential for keeping survivors in the game. It was a strategic choice. The current nerf, which increases self-healing times dramatically, makes MedKits feel weak and punishing. A substantive buff should restore self-healing to reasonable levels—maybe around 18-20 seconds instead of the extreme nerf we have now. It’s about balance, not removing an entire survival strategy.
3. Speed of Healing Pre-Nerf
You argue that pre-update, survivors could achieve 7-second heals with certain combinations of perks, which you claim is excessive. Sure, some extreme builds existed that allowed for faster-than-usual heals, but those were niche builds—not the baseline for most survivors. If your concern is about overly fast healing, the solution should be to tweak the perks or add-ons causing those situations, not to gut the entire MedKit system.
Furthermore, Circle of Healing provided an additional healing buff that stacked with MedKits, but Circle has already been nerfed. We’re not asking for those same pre-nerf values—we’re asking for a moderate buff to MedKits to make them viable again. A 7-second heal might be too fast, but pushing personal healing times closer to 18-20 seconds for one or two uses should be seen as a fair compromise.
4. MedKits Are Now in a Balanced Spot
You claim MedKits are now “balanced” because they provide some independence while also freeing up teammates to focus on objectives. In reality, MedKits now feel too weak and inconsistent. The nerf to personal healing has been so severe that most survivors don’t bother bringing MedKits anymore unless they’re running an altruistic build or just need one quick heal after unhook. And the faster consumption rate means even the most prepared survivors can’t rely on MedKits to save themselves when they need it most.
MedKits should strike a balance between self-sufficiency and teamwork. A substantial buff that reduces personal healing penalties and moderates consumption rates would restore their viability without tipping the scales too far in favor of survivors. After all, survivors need tools to stay in the match, and right now, MedKits don’t offer enough.
5. You Shouldn’t Be Able to Heal Yourself 10 Times
As mentioned earlier, while the theory of healing 10 times in a game sounds ridiculous, this isn’t something that happens in the majority of matches. Survivors who heal excessively usually do so at the cost of completing gens and helping their teammates, which is an inefficient way to play.
The focus should be on balancing MedKits so that survivors can heal themselves a couple of times per game effectively—not making them useless after one or two uses. A reasonable buff that reduces the harshness of the nerf would give survivors back some control over their own survival without letting them heal indefinitely.
6. Time-Saving is a Necessary Mechanic
You argue that survivors shouldn’t save 16 seconds every time they heal after a killer hits them. But consider the killer’s time efficiency. Killers can hit survivors, apply pressure, and down survivors in mere seconds. Survivors need a way to recover quickly enough to keep the game dynamic. MedKits played a key role in this time management for survivors, allowing them to heal and return to generators without sacrificing too much time.
The nerf has made this balance impossible. Now, survivors waste too much time healing, which plays into the killer’s hands too easily. A buff that reduces personal healing times, even to something like 20 seconds, would restore some of that much-needed equilibrium.
7. A Balanced Healing Speed
While 7-second heals might have been extreme, the current nerf has swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. MedKits should provide a balance of efficiency and limited use. Survivors shouldn’t be able to heal at lightning speed, but they also shouldn’t be penalized to the point of MedKits being useless.
A substantial buff should target the personal healing speed, bringing it back to a reasonable level that gives survivors enough autonomy to stay in the match without becoming overpowered. This would bring MedKits back to being a balanced and essential tool in survivors’ kits, while still allowing killers to maintain pressure.
In conclusion, while the initial intention of the nerf might have been to curb extreme use cases, BHVR has overcompensated by making MedKits almost unusable for personal healing. A reasonable buff is necessary to restore MedKits to a more balanced, functional state that lets survivors maintain a fair chance of survival without breaking the game.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795530#Comment_3795530
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, what 'guideline' was broken? I called no person an idiot, but an action/style. When there are clear mathematical inferior or superior options, the inferior option is foolish at best. Also there are no 'community guidelines' there are 'forum rules'. This raised me an extra 5-10% suspicious certainty to focus on inaccurate verbiage similar to other games, while not linking to the page like so.
For your reference:
Do I need to say more?
https://youtu.be/LgncSiSnIyI?feature=shared -
@humanbeing1704 said:
all the healing nerfs did was make medkits boring and uniformed I seriously don’t understand why they gave all of them the same charges
The balance logic they took was “Let’s kill it to the ground so people will heal each other.” But they did not count with lack of coordination in solo queue games.
My honest reaction:
https://youtu.be/iEb9VfaLJcs?feature=shared -
I understand your point, but you may refer to the Discussion Post text (the first one). Check that up, and you will see where I mention about other options, like totems for example.
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@Deathstroke said:
Self healing was nerfed too much med kit tiers should be different with more charges and faster healing. Selfcare was fine with the speed before maybe the amounts could been limited instead just reducing the speed and I think it was nerfed because it was popular.
Exactly! There is literally no point for running different med kits for self healing no more. It is just a matter of how pretty they look at the screen now.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795426#Comment_3795426
I'm like 30-70% confident this poster is a bot. His pattern of speech is needlessly formal, it feels all too artificial, the detailed sections appear to conform around prompts, the time between posts (with their length and level of formality, like dude wrote 8 paragraphs in 6 minutes without taking the time to proofread or nothing?) and a general 'feel'/'vibe'. I gave a meme response that went unresponded, then I didn't even insult anyone specifically, I drew attention to negative behaviors. The response then is to claim my post is against the rules of the forum, as if the rules were already fed into the prompting.
If I intentionally don't attempt skillchecks while using Technician, I can do that, but it would be an idiotic move, the move being the problem, not me as a person. That is the same level of foolishness I was likening by saying 'rat cowards'. Most people would probably be able to parse the human interaction there, and understand the intention behind the raw words used, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.You were calling people who used self-care “idiots” and “rats” for playing in a way you don’t like. Nothing in the community guidelines allows you to do that, but feel free to cope as much as you want. It just shows how much you need a break.
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@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795425#Comment_3795425
I understand the sentiment but I was directly responding to somebody saying the reason selfcare got nerfed was because and I quote: “But people cried enough to get it nerfed unfortunately.”
I was just explaining the real reason it got nerfed, I haven’t stated my opinion on self healing at all.
Ohhh! I got it my friend. I misunderstood you! But yeah, I feel that we need more options available without having to make a whole build around it.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795424#Comment_3795424
Except these playstyles actively endanger the entire team and are purely for selfish purposes.
The devs allowing it doesn't make it right and it's nonsensical that you can have a selfish loadout in a game where teamwork is so important.
This not a sound justification to insult players here. That's against the community guidelines.
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@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794846#Comment_3794846
no, what happened was there’s were major problems with healing and they needed to be nerfed, but BHVR overcompensated the hell out of it by destroying self care. Honestly self care did not need to be nerfed nearly as bad as it was.
It’s just like Billy, his base kit was fine but insta saw combo needed to be changed bad, but they destroyed almost all of his addons and then gave him old overheat, BHVR has a history of grossly overcompensating things by overbuffing or overnerfing things to extreme levels.
Hey, friend! I totally understand your argumentation on BHVR’s tendency to overcompensate when balancing perks and mechanics, but I think it’s important to look at self-healing in a broader context and push for a more balanced approach rather than a complete shutdown of the mechanic.
You mention that self-care didn't need such a harsh nerf, and I fully agree that the drastic change felt over the top. However, this is exactly why advocating for a self-healing buff — whether it's through Self-Care or other means like Circle of Healing — is reasonable. The core of self-healing isn’t inherently broken; the issue lies in how it's balanced to fit the current meta. A well-tuned self-healing mechanic adds strategy without tipping the scales too far in favor of survivors.
Let’s look at the main concern here: healing pressure and efficiency. BHVR nerfed self-care because it was seen as too powerful, with survivors being able to heal repeatedly and negate killer pressure. While this was a valid concern, BHVR’s response — cutting self-care’s speed and effectiveness to the ground — has left a gap. Healing was once a reliable way for survivors to regain footing in a chase-heavy game, but now, survivors are forced into limited options, which makes the gameplay less dynamic. The over-nerfing has essentially funneled survivors into team-dependent strategies, reducing variety and taking away that "self-sufficiency" element that made healing perks enjoyable for a lot of players.
Now, when we talk about healing being "too efficient," we have to ask — compared to what? Sure, self-healing at its peak allowed survivors to heal themselves frequently, but it came at a cost: it was slow, required a perk slot, and left survivors vulnerable. Killers, meanwhile, have immense map control, stealth, and speed, and a properly buffed self-care wouldn’t break the balance in favor of survivors. In fact, a modest buff — say 40-45% healing efficiency — would make self-care usable again without reverting to the unbalanced meta it once was. It gives survivors an option to heal, but it's still slower and more dangerous than coordinating with teammates.
In a game where killers have incredible momentum with perks that snowball, like Gen regression perks, a slight self-healing buff provides a crucial counterbalance. The game needs to offer multiple viable strategies for survivors, and right now, with the nerfs to healing, we're seeing less diversity in perk builds and more dependency on cooperative strategies. That can be fun, but it also limits the ways players can approach the game.
Regarding Circle of Healing, adding a self-care option to it would fit within the current healing framework, especially since CoH has already been heavily nerfed. It would restore some value to the perk without making it overpowered. Survivors who choose CoH would still have to invest time to set up healing zones and be limited to specific areas, but it adds back an element of self-sufficiency that has been sorely missing. Self-healing gives survivors another layer of strategic flexibility without overpowering the overall gameplay.
I get the comparison to Billy, but there's a difference here: with Billy, the problem was in his high-mobility one-shot potential, which was too oppressive. In contrast, self-care never had that oppressive quality — it was a slow, methodical way for survivors to regain control. The nerf to self-care removed that option almost entirely, leaving survivors too vulnerable in many situations. BHVR did go too far, but this is exactly why we should be advocating for a reasonable buff to self-healing measures. It restores balance without going back to the old meta.
In summary, while BHVR's overcompensation with nerfs is a valid point, this doesn’t mean self-healing shouldn’t be buffed. A balanced, moderate buff to self-care and self-healing perks like Circle of Healing would enhance survivor gameplay without reverting to unbalanced metas of the past. In fact, there is really no point to even run different medkits since their overdone nerf.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795250#Comment_3795250
To be fair, the rat cowards that play this way are hiding until they get healed regardless. I'd rather them be visible and allow me to stop them from being an idiot than hide and lose from an early 3v1 with 4 Survs alive.
Hey, let’s keep this dicussion tread civil. Calling players "rat cowards" or "idiots" is counter productive to our conversation here. Follow the community guidelines. People have different playstyles, and while they may not always align with your preferences, it doesn’t mean we should insult them.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795116#Comment_3795116
Sure, but talking about changes that BHVR should make has to consider those regions as well. Buffing self care might have a minimal impact on American/European servers, but would have a massive impact on the Asian servers.
The strategy and game pace would change gradually in the given server. Killers would create a counter play as they always have found, such as map pressure, perks, mind games, baits, etc.
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@crogers271 said:
I'll mention the thing BHVR has to consider that I'm surprised no one has brought up:
Self-care in the Asian region is considered an S tier perk. Low MMR, high MMR, soloq, SWF, it's considered one the absolute best survivor perks in the game.
Players from these servers have a completely different strategic approach in matches. They don’t rely on altruism as much people from American servers do. Therefore, it is a form of survival in such niche environment.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794858#Comment_3794858
All 3 healing speed nerfs to CoH still was too strong. self healing at 16/18.3/21.3 seconds was still way too efficient for just one perk. Let alone self care being 40-45% would still be strong in the right hands.
You make a valid point about the effectiveness of Circle of Healing (CoH) and self-care at various speeds. It’s true that even with nerfs, the ability to heal quickly with just one perk can be quite powerful. However, the intention behind suggesting buffs or changes isn’t to disregard the need for balance but to address the disparity between solo and team-based play.
Self-healing or a self-care option in CoH should be seen as part of a broader balance discussion. While it’s crucial to ensure that these mechanics don’t make the game too easy or unbalanced, it's equally important to consider that solo survivors often face challenges that are different from those experienced by coordinated teams. The goal would be to adjust these mechanics so they offer a fair and balanced advantage without overwhelming the Killer.
Finding the right balance is key. A slight increase in self-healing efficiency could help address solo survivor frustrations without disrupting overall game balance. It’s about ensuring that no playstyle feels disproportionately weaker while maintaining the game’s challenge and thrill for everyone involved.
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You raise a good point about the contrast between reliable self-healing and the thrill of high-stakes gameplay. However, the idea behind buffing self-healing or Circle of Healing isn’t to eliminate thrill or challenge but to offer a more balanced experience for solo survivors.
Self-healing is meant to provide a viable option for solo players who might not always have access to teammates or who might face situations where teamwork isn't always possible. It’s about giving survivors a bit more agency and reducing the frustration of being left helpless when isolated. This doesn’t mean removing thrill or pressure from the game; it just ensures that solo players have a fair chance to recover without making the Killer's job significantly easier.
Balancing self-healing or Circle of Healing is about finding that middle ground where solo players can feel empowered without making the game overly easy or removing the challenge. It’s about creating a more inclusive and balanced experience for all players.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794898#Comment_3794898
Self-Care would be strong, but it would still be fair at 45%. That's the important part. I called CoH OP from the onset, and I truly think adding 25% Self-Care onto it now (64s Self-Heal) would be fine (just heal your teammate, but they can keep busy while waiting).
I understand where you're coming from, but I think it's important to consider the context of self-healing and how it affects gameplay.
Self-healing isn't about completely negating Killer pressure—it's about providing a balance for solo survivors who might not always have the support of a full team. When you compare self-healing to something like the 3-gen meta, which could be seen as a strategy that stifles Killer options and game dynamics, self-healing offers more individual agency without fundamentally breaking the balance.
Moreover, a slight buff to self-healing or Circle of Healing wouldn’t make it a catch-all solution; it would simply make solo play less frustrating without removing the need for teamwork. The Killer still retains plenty of pressure and options, and survivors must still be strategic in their self-care decisions. This approach would provide a more nuanced balance rather than eliminating Killer pressure altogether.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794932#Comment_3794932
I think noobs wanting to self-care will be ignorant enough to not know about holding Shift to prevent an ally from healing them. Anyone knowledgeable enough to do that, will also know it would be 4x (gen seconds)/8x (realtime) faster to have your buddy heal you (8s heal on 2 people each, vs 64s self-heal). To be fair though, there is the possibility for abuse, and that is already done with normal Self-Care. So principally, I would have to be against 35% Self-Care as well, which in a sense, I am, as I think it should be rebuffed up to 45%.
I appreciate your perspective on the issue. It's true that teamwork and strategic healing are important in Dead by Daylight. However, the current self-healing speed does have its drawbacks, especially for solo players who might not always have reliable teammates. While having a buddy heal you is often faster, not all survivors can rely on that option consistently.
A self-healing buff to 35% or even 45% would help balance the playing field by giving solo players more flexibility and independence. This would make self-care a viable option without completely undermining the benefit of team healing. Additionally, buffing Circle of Healing to also provide a self-care option would further enhance its utility. It would allow survivors to heal themselves more effectively while still benefiting from the perk’s area of effect for teamwork.
This change would address the potential abuse of self-care by maintaining the advantage of team healing but also making self-care a more practical choice for solo players. Ultimately, a slight buff in self-care and an enhancement to Circle of Healing would improve the game's balance and make the experience more enjoyable for players who find themselves frequently playing solo or facing unreliable teams.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795095#Comment_3795095
yeah, so no, you lost me.
I understand where you're coming from. My aim is to find a balance where survivors have some form of awareness tool against undetectable killers - what currently is non-existing - without making the killers too weak. Premonition provides directional awareness and doesn’t offer the same level of detail or continuous feedback that Spine Chill used to. If there are specific concerns or points you disagree with, I’d be happy to discuss them further. My goal is to ensure that gameplay remains fair and enjoyable for both sides.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
I dont remember if premonition works on undetectable killers, it shouldnt, in case it isnt, I agree, otherwise big no.
Let’s break this down based on the mechanics of Premonition and its interactions with undetectable killers:
Undetectable Killers and Premonition: Premonition does work on undetectable killers. The Undetectable status effect removes the killer’s terror radius, red stain, and visual heartbeat, but it doesn’t prevent Premonition from alerting survivors when the killer is within their facing direction. This sets Premonition apart from perks like Spine Chill, which used to offer continuous feedback regardless of the killer's stealth status.
Spine Chill's Role and Premonition's Function: When Spine Chill worked on undetectable killers, it was a crucial tool for surviving against stealthy killers such as Ghost Face, Wraith, or Myers in his Stalker phase. It provided consistent awareness, helping survivors effectively counter stealth tactics. However, with Spine Chill no longer functioning in this capacity, survivors have lost a significant means of countering undetectable killers.
Premonition now fills a similar niche by providing directional alerts when the killer is in the survivor's line of sight. While it still works against undetectable killers, it only indicates the direction the killer is coming from and doesn’t provide detailed information on distance or the nature of the threat. Unlike Spine Chill, it doesn’t offer continuous feedback and is hampered by a cooldown, which significantly limits its utility.
The “Big No” Argument: The concern that buffing Premonition would overly weaken stealthy killers overlooks several key factors. While Premonition does give survivors an indication of a nearby undetectable killer, it still requires the survivor to actively look in the direction of the threat. This limitation means that Premonition does not grant continuous awareness or detailed information, and the survivor must be vigilant, making it less of a comprehensive solution.
Moreover, stealthy killers retain their strengths even with Premonition in play. They can still use their abilities to reposition and catch survivors off guard. Killers with high mobility or stealth abilities can exploit survivor distractions or approach from angles not covered by Premonition, ensuring that the perk doesn’t negate their advantages but rather balances the playing field.
Given that Spine Chill no longer functions against undetectable killers, allowing Premonition to maintain its current effectiveness is a fair compromise. Removing the cooldown on Premonition would provide a needed buff, making it a more viable option for survivors against stealthy killers without unbalancing the gameplay. The perk’s current limitations, including its directional nature and cooldown, prevent it from being an overpowering tool, ensuring that stealthy killers can still employ their tactics effectively.In conclusion, allowing Premonition to continue functioning against undetectable killers, with a potential buff to remove the cooldown, does not break the game or overly penalize stealth-based killers. It provides a balanced alternative to the lost effectiveness of Spine Chill, keeping the game dynamic and fair for both sides.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795069#Comment_3795069
A killer could walk backwards to avoid spine chill, premonition is based off survivor looking in killer direction. so replace spine chill with a perk that has less counter-play. I am not entirely sure what a killer play is suppose to do vs pre-running other than play high mobility gap-closing killers like Nurse, Blight and billy.
The argument presented suggests that Spine Chill was too easily countered by killers who could walk backward to avoid triggering the perk, and that Premonition should not be buffed as it offers less counter-play for killers. However, this view oversimplifies both the issue with Spine Chill and the potential utility of Premonition in its current or improved form.
While it’s true that killers could walk backward to avoid triggering Spine Chill, this required them to sacrifice speed and, in many cases, time. Walking backward is not an efficient or reliable strategy for every killer, especially during moments where they need to pressure survivors or secure key objectives. In practice, many killers would still trigger Spine Chillunintentionally, making the perk valuable for skilled survivors who capitalized on those moments.
Premonition, on the other hand, is an active perk that provides a directional warning when a survivor is facing the killer within a 45-degree cone. Importantly, Premonition does not require line of sight, meaning it can trigger even through walls or obstacles, but it still offers limited information. Survivors don’t know the exact distance or location of the killer, and since the perk only triggers when the survivor is looking in the killer's general direction, there is still a degree of unpredictability involved. The killer could be farther away, approaching from an angle that doesn't immediately threaten the survivor, or simply moving in a way that doesn’t immediately result in a chase.
The argument that Premonition offers less counter-play ignores these inherent limitations. Survivors relying on Premonition must continuously adjust their view and position to receive its warnings, and it provides no information about how close the killer is or whether the killer is even aware of the survivor's presence. Killers can still approach survivors from behind, flank them, or use their game sense and stealth to catch survivors off guard despite Premonition's warnings.
The suggestion that the only counter-play to "pre-running" is to use high-mobility killers like Nurse, Blight, or Billy is too narrow. Killers have various tools to create pressure, including perks, map control, and mind games. Pre-running is not a foolproof strategy, and many killers excel at predicting survivor movement and using map design to their advantage, even if survivors are trying to get a head start on loops. The idea that only high-mobility killers can counter this strategy overlooks the diversity of playstyles and killer abilities available.
Finally, removing the cooldown for Premonition would not create an overwhelming advantage for survivors. The perk would simply provide more frequent directional information without significantly affecting the core dynamics of the game. Killers still have ample opportunities to outplay survivors, even if the survivors use Premonition more frequently. It would give survivors a chance to react more actively to killer pressure, but it wouldn’t provide them with an insurmountable advantage.
In conclusion, buffing Premonition by removing the cooldown would give survivors a slightly more reliable detection tool without compromising killer counter-play. It would strike a fair balance between skill-based survivor information and the need for killers to adapt their strategies without resorting to niche tactics like walking backward to avoid detection.
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Thank you very much!
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794635#Comment_3794635
Self care with Botany is fine honestly, legit only missing out on 15 percent, it's faster than looking for someone who has no healing perks when you need it, especially in solo queue. Self care on its own when misused is the issue. Plus a team mate can finish the heal for you if they find you.
And honestly Strength in shadows is the "team destroyer" going all the way to basement to heal is a time waste in most occassions and can get you and your whole team killed if punished for it.The self-healing mechanic in Dead by Daylight has been a topic of debate, but it's time to seriously consider buffing it, especially for solo players who rely on it far more than in coordinated teams. Here's why:
First, the idea that buffing self-healing would make being injured "no big deal" overlooks the core dynamics of the game. Even with self-care, healing takes time—precious time that could be spent on objectives like working on generators or saving teammates. Survivors still need to find a safe place to heal, and they risk getting caught and downed if they misjudge the situation. Buffing self-healing wouldn’t suddenly make injuries irrelevant; it would just give survivors a more reasonable chance to recover without being overly dependent on their team. In solo queue, you often have to rely on yourself.
Additionally, relying on perks like Botany Knowledge, medkits, or Resurgence can be a gamble. Medkits can be lost to Franklin’s Demise, and you don’t always have the luxury of running multiple healing perks that take up crucial perk slots. Buffing self-healing slightly would give survivors more flexibility without overshadowing existing healing options. It’s about balance and player choice—giving survivors, especially those in solo queue, the tools they need to stay in the game longer without breaking the game’s core tension.
It’s also important to remember that the misuse of self-care (players hiding in corners or taking too long to heal) isn’t a flaw in the perk itself but rather in the playstyle. Any perk can be misused, and we don't generally punish perks for that. What we should focus on is how buffing self-healing can encourage survivors to stay engaged and make smarter decisions. A more reliable self-care option won’t lead to survivors hiding away—if anything, it’ll empower them to get back in the action faster.
Let’s be clear: Dead by Daylight is often balanced around high-level, coordinated play, but the majority of players aren’t in a well-oiled SWF team. For solo queue players, self-healing is a lifeline. Buffing it even a little would give them more agency in matches where they can’t always count on random teammates to heal them. It's about leveling the playing field and making the game more enjoyable for everyone—not just those who have a full squad of friends on comms.
In short, a buff to self-healing would provide a much-needed improvement to the solo survivor experience without tipping the scales too much in favor of survivors. It’s a reasonable, measured adjustment that would keep the game challenging while giving players more strategic options and reducing unnecessary frustration.
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@pigslittlepet said:
It's been broken for at least 7 days so far and absolutely nothing has been done. Games on that map are completely broken. I don't know if the devs are ignoring the problem or literally just don't care but either answer shows a complete lack of competency for fixing the game. I had it 5 times in a row on 2v8. And every match was a different version of broken. Invisible walls, holes in the edge, glitch points that sent my killer flying in the air, and once I saw a survivor die on first cage because nobody could get to him. His cage was stuck off the edge of a hill. This Is just rediculous.
Thanks for sharing! Could you add more on the effects of killer players? Let’s make this discussion stand up!
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Developers!!!! Please, Address This!!!!
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azarovs maps are unplayable!!!! I cannot run through it without hitting a invisible wall!
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I cannot play on this map without hitting an invisible wall! What is going on?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560215#Comment_3560215
Do we know the kill rates right now?
I don’t remember the last time they showed us right now. I need to check it up. Could you help me search for it? I remember that the last time I checked, the kill rates were above 55% and survivor rates were lower than 50%
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560212#Comment_3560212
As a Jeff Main, I have learned to live with it. But I wish they would finally do something.
Yeah. I mean, I want to play bill, Jane, Laurie, Jeff, etc. but they are too much loud!
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
What do you mean, if she teleports and you're in a locker you don't gain stacks ? i didn't know that
opsie! I said something wrong. You do get stacks of you don’t have the tape in a locker. However, you can use the locker to avoid the hit that will make you fully condemned if you have the tape.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
What do you mean, if she teleports and you're in a locker you don't gain stacks ? i didn't know that
You are right my friend. I mean if you are injured and with the tape and one shot to become fully condemned. You jump into a locker to avoid the hit
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@DemonDaddy said:
Why is condemned that high? Grab a tape 1st thing and you can ignore the build up.
Midgama you have to make a choice between grabbing a tape or to commit a gen. It is a very risky move, but it may pay off if done right. Also, Sadako may turn the nearby tvs off, and you don’t have much information where to get a tape from. As a result, you may take some time to get in the other side of the map just to get a tape, what may increase your condemn if she is spamming teleporting and hit and running.
I understand and agree with your point, but sometimes the game goes to different directions and we have to improvise.
if you have any thing to add that is supportive fill to the discussion, please, share it with us.
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@xltechno said:
If you have a video, are injured, and your curse gauge has reached 5.
If you quickly escape to the locker without overdoing it, you can do the bare minimum of work.
It's not special knowledge, it's basic knowledge, and even beginners should know it.
Yeah. However, it is not provided a full counter book every killer rework or release. We should share information as much as we can to build a awareness for beginners.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558462#Comment_3558462
That's very one sided.
First: killer perks got nuked as well.
Also, we see how problematic ban aid fixes are when we look at basekit bt. Instead of making killers be rewarded for hooking different survivors and going for many hooks, they only made it harder to tunnel. Encouraging tunneling in the process.
that’s how balancing works. Kill rates are above 55% while escape rates are below 50%. When one side is over performing, the other should receive some attention.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/392946/buff-iron-will
When they nerfed IW I made a post about how bad this change is for certain characters as not all characters have the same volume when injured.
The Devs said that they want to level out all the screams, but they didn't so far....
THIS! That’s why it is useless to run this perk for loud characters. I stopped playing Laurie Strode bc she can be heard across the map. They need to bring it back again to what it was or make survivors almost completely silent without exhaustion feature to make the perk universally useful for all characters.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557943#Comment_3557943
But that's just a band aid fix for something that needs to be looked at.
Band aid fixes more often than not make things worse.
not a all. That’s has been the case for more than 6 years of the game, and nobody complained about it. They just wanted to increase the number of kills by making a bunch of survivor perks useless. Iron Will is not an exception from this crusade.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556332#Comment_3556332
Iron will is still amazing on quiet characters. Ace is basicly 100% quiet.
I think it's more a problem of some survivor being too loud and some being too quiet.
That was something the devs wanted to look into if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, they did wanted to check it up, but they never did. So, I propose a easier solution that can fix the problem.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554452#Comment_3554452
A 3 seconds DS is much better than no DS at all. And OTR hasn't changed since 6.1.0. Still, both of these perks aren't used anymore. Can't say I'm surprised that so many people complain about tunneling now. They make themselves vulnerable and wonder why their opponent capitalises on that. The only ways to counter these perks is to not tunnel. And if you don't get tunneled, isn't that good?
Bloodhound does not counter Iron Will. Do you even know what these perks do? First you brought up Beast of Prey and now Bloodhound. Both are terrible and don't provide any beneficial effect. Who cares, if the blood is a bit brighter? You still can't see the blood through walls, so it doesn't help when you try to mind game. Which is exactly what Iron Will makes less effective. Bloodhound has absolutely no purpose. There is no situation where Bloodhound would provide any value. You see the blood anyway. And if you don't, then Bloodhound won't help you either. The reason no killer runs it is because it's useless. You might as well use nothing at all.
Reading through your post, I am convinced you didn't read mine. Let me repeat it for you: Iron Will makes mind gaming a lot harder because you cannot hear the survivor to get an idea of their location behind line of sight blockers. This also allows you to leave the loop at just the right moment, so that you make a lot of distance on the killer because they didn't notice that you left. They don't lose you. They just have no way to tell where you are as soon as they can't see you directly. It also allows you to hide in certain spots while you are injured. If you do it right, that all but guarantees you escape chase with nothing the killer can do (other than Oni).
“A 3 seconds DS is much better than no DS at all.” What a terrible statement. Do you actually think that people should be happy with the actual situation of that perk? It is just 1.5 seconds to reach a safe area. 1.5 seconds… Almost all killers can counter this without any significant punishment. That’s the reason why people don’t use it anymore. Also, only players that tunnel used have a problem with this perk after the conspicuous action rework. However, they changed anyway and killer the perk in the same way they did with Iron Will. They wanted to increase the number of kills for killers by doing such changes, by reducing the resources available for survivor to actually play the game. Last change was with Medkits and Prove Thyself, now both of them are incredible underwhelming, what forces survivors to be injured most of the time (instead of trying to heal in a fast time) and trying to genrush individually.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3554392#Comment_3554392
Iron will was popular in combination with dh. It made looping pretty easy on the survivor end. If you can't see the killer : run away with iron will. Killer will never know.
If the killer sees you: dh for distance.
That made chases very long, unfun for the killer role and therefore pretty problematic.
Iron will was not problematic when used for Stealth. It was problematic when used in chase.
You wanna know what's funny? I never have to search for survivors.
They are always in my face. Do I force them to do that? No. They do that on their own. Why? Because it's the most efficient playstyle.
Stealth was never the best way to play dbd. Aggressive plays are (sadly) the best options on both sides.
Again, 100% Iron Will was a great and healthy perk that was used for years without too much complaints besides spirit mains before their nerf.
Iron Will is supposed to be a stealth perk that is versatile in chase and outside chase. That’s why it is not disabled during a chase. However, because of the meta shake up done in 6.1.0 many good and great perks were nerfed to the ground to the point of not being useful anymore.
75% Iron Will is a a huge pile of garbage because characters that have loud moans of pain will still be louder than others (like Jane, Bill, Cheryl, Sheeva, Jill, etc). A killer with a dollar tree headset can still hear then with this perk during and outside chases. That’s why this perk is beyond useless.
Also, as per my last replies, I used to play before 6.1.0 and I have never had an single issue with Iron Will, in fact, that was the least hated perk for me during my gameplays. I used to be more annoyed by bully squads with head on and flashlights than someone using a stealth perk.
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@KaTo1337 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/393126/im-so-happy-with-the-killer-nerfs
Will be fun to wait 30min for a game because no one wants to play killer anymore.
Thank goodness. Better than having a 3 minute match bc a killer tunnel someone out at 5 gens
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Otz just made new video about problematic perks and there is list.
I am asking to community if you agree with him or not. There is perk list and video source:
I think that he is going to much far for views on this one