My issue with the Judgement, Survivor POV
There a lot of things I really like about the Judgment and from the survivor side I find her engaging and chases are interesting. The mix her power both short and long range keeps my invested even when they are across the map because you never know when an attack will come, it's really fun.
I however have 2 BIG ISSUES, with the Judgement that I am seeing with her. Which if is addressed seriously would make the Judgment a very well designed killer.
The first issue is the aura reading. It has become a constant for players to stack aura reading and it's just too much. I have a pretty simple solution for this. Give survivors more aura blocking perks. Seriously, there just isn't anywhere near enough to deal with this. It's pretty straightforward. Buff Distortion back to 3 tokens max and start with 2 and come up with a few more perks to block aura, we had one but it got gutted. (looks at cross examination.)
Second issue is the freeing survivors from her realm. Players are being teleported right on top of the killer and just instantly tunneled out and I can't even blame them. It's like the game is saying please ruin that players match. On top of this when survivors are going to free the teammates from the Exile the Judgment knows that the shrines other players are going near are the ones that need to be used use. Either they need to be guaranteed spaced out to stop holding the shrines or make it so the shrines can be used after a set out amount of time.
Comments
Distortion should be tied to generator repair time on charging or both chase and repair and maybe give it another token on the start. The chase requirement just does not do anything to charge it against most of the new killers as they don't that much chase but bombard you from distance ala Jason and Judgement. It might also be good to increase the aura hiding time a little.
They most likely should go with two random shrines get lit up not the two closest of the Judgement. Main reason why to change it is the reason stated by op still its not the most common thing to happen but happens. I know why devs did this was to give killer a chance to defend end game collapse if survivor would be in in exile but if the match goes that far there is no point to do that on the survivor when hook is easier to defend than two shrines.
There was a big update about diminishing returns but aura doesn't count…… BHVR knows but they cover their one side, ie dev got blinded = flashlights get immediate nerf. You are not wrong.
How many you had in exile if you have several survivors there more shrines light up. Main reason not to put more than one there at the time.
ahh did not know that is a feature. Still I was mainly talking about the situation where you already exiled just before they fixed the last gen.
Diminishing returns works by reducing the 2nd, 3rd… effect on a survivor/killer/gens like stacking haste or vaulting speed or gen regression speed.
Aura reading doesn't stack like if you have 1 perk revealing the survivor and the second one then it will show aura for as long as the stronger perk works.
Why are we complaining about info perks that just give info and nothing else, would you rather a killer have full slowdown or just a lot of information and it's so easy to dodge against judgement anyway.
I think ur missing the point of the post.
The OP isnt complaining about the use of aura reading perks. The OP is asking for tools to deal with it. Which is different from demanding a nerf or anything of the like
They are complaining about aura reading perks, the anti-aura perks is a "pretty simple solution" for them but there's issues with perks like this imo.
But I just have one question to people who say that aura reading perks is an issue, would they rather play against info perks so the killer only knows where they are sometimes (so judgement can know where to shoot and survivors still can dodge), full slowdown which makes the games last longer (judgement can still snipe the gens without aura perks because of the gen aura) and sometimes also situational info or hex perks which can be strong and are very annoying to deal with while can also be slowdown (and judgement protecting the hexes)?
I think the "tunneling" part is survivors "unhooking" in the face of the killer, which is a skill issue.
HOWEVER, I do think it would not hurt if the selected statues for rescue were random, and not necessarily the closest ones.
I wouldn't mind if 2 furthest statues where needed to rescue like with pyramid head the cage is on opposite side of the map, it already gives enough value from the zealous and countering a lot of perks (but making some perks worse for the killer, so it goes both ways).
I hate the tunneling part too especially since I love to run sabo to prevent tunneling but I just can't play that way anymore since Judgment just totally ignores my build. It's so much fun being forced to genrush or risk bringing a build that does absolutely nothing. Really great move on the developers side removing playstyles from survivors… so much fun just having to genrush.
@MiseryandCompany Otz has raised the issue that Celestial Witness has a habit of highlighting newly unhooked people, which is causing a bunch of tunnelling. The Exile negating survivor perks also prevents people from running anti-tunnel builds to help protect against it.
Add to that small, multi-level maps where the Judgement can hit anyone at any time and all their aura reads are within range. I've also seen the beam warnings perform inconsistently on levels with more than one floor. It hits both levels, but isn't necessarily visible when it doesn't start at your verticality. The shrine placements seem to have been infested with the game's typical 'bad RNG' as well, which has made liberations painful on some maps.
There was either some sloppy mistakes in the development here, or someone at BHVR wanted a tunnelling killer that will finally make people appreciate going against Nurse.
What I want, is for survivors to have the option to bring in a build to potentially counter certain killer builds.
there is nothing wrong the builds and is a good change of pace from (4 gen slow down perks) however survivors do not have anywhere near enough perks to counter balance this.
I am simply pointing out that you do not need to change killer or he perk themselves (except lethal pursuer, that perk should not exist,) and give survivor a way help deal with these perks and addons. It does not have to be a complete counter just a way to give agency to survivors.
Agree with both points here. When it comes to aura reading, I am not sure yet whether its op on her or not, but I can see why it can be frustrating to go against. My suggestion would have been to give her blindness while she holds her power. That would not make aura reading useless on her, but she couldn't pinpoint survivors location all the time while holding and releasing her power.
The second point I agree with even more. It would be nice if there was some kind of logic that made survivors spawn away from the killer as far as possible when being saved from the exile.
I'm glad people are smartening up on Judgement. The worst part about Judgement is a lot of killers won't even trying to take chase with her. They'll just sit in the middle of the map sniping generators with her. It's boring for the survivors. And yes, BHVR has gotten carried away with the aura reading. Anyone tried the perk "Eye See You"? That perk will activate multiple times in Judgement games.
I agree with the second part about the shrines for sure, a lot of survivors arn't smart about freeing from exile and it's leading to a lot of easy tunneling especially if the Judgement knows the general area of the shrines. Either make it the farthest shrines or make it so Judgement can't see which shrines are active.
The aura reading I don't think I really agree with. We have aura hiding in shadowstep and distortion and which aura perks are getting you? A lot of survivors have wizened up to nurses and don't heal in the TR anymore. Gearhead requires you to actually get hits to go off in the first place and then doesn't do anything if the survivor gets no skill checks or hits greats. BBQ isn't run on them, Deerstalker means you see her too, Celestial Witness doesn't actually give you aura reading half the time unless you run it with nemesis which means you know when she sees you. Like which aura reading is unfair on her exactly?
Judgement needs to be nerfed to the ground. Lots of aura reading and endless ammunition which you can curve and which gives you killer instinct and ignores obstacles.
At this point, just remove the Huntress from the game, poor thing. And the Deathslinger. Why play them?
Judgement needs a limited number of rays, after which he should go to one of the statues to recharge. The killer needs to be slower as well.
And aura-reading should be severely limited.
So you want the killer to just not be able to do anything? Also Executioner can do that and it 115 Artist can do that and is 115, Henry can do that and is 110 but has a movement ability. I swear the people complaining about Judgement are so unserious.
It's not the whole map though, it's 60m so about half the map on average and yes I do think that's a reasonable playstyle for the killer because I think it's very clear BHVR designed the killer with that playstyle in mind. And yes all those other killers do have other disadvantages and advantages that warrant the different speeds but that's why Judgement is only 110. And yes it is completely unserious to make Judgement unable to chase when the beam is incredibly difficult to use close range and the survivors have to basically not be paying attention to get hit long range while sitting on a gen.
You would think if Judgment is so overpowered and easy you'd be seeing her every game, when Jason came out he was the only killer you would see for weeks. Most people have already dropped Judgment so maybe just maybe these claims are completely overblown.
I have played survivor many times against this killer and I loop them for multiple gens every game because I actually understand how they work. I'm not saying I never get hit on a gen especially on indoor maps but I will say I never get downed by a snipe because working on a gen injured against this killer is a horrible idea. More often than not though when I do go down they have to hook me because the beam never hits me.
And yes sometimes BHVR fumbles like with original Skull Merchant however sometimes the community way over reacts... like with Skull Merchant 2.0.
Also saying it covers half the map doesn't prove it's over powered you're just saying words now. Actually explain how it's over powered.
See this just sounds like you haven't actually played the killer very much. Because the beam is hard to use up close, not useable but very difficult if the survivor actually has a brain and makes their movement unpredictable. The beam only has a width of 3m and survivors have a movement speed of 4m/s so not only do you have to line the beam up correctly but you have to be dead on enough to not give them time to dodge. Also Distortion and Shadowstep are a nuisance if survivors are smart and reset in some corner because as a 110 killer with no mobility you can't really afford to patrol the whole map.
Also as I've said Judgement is hardly the first killer to ignore DBD fundamentals and I don't think she's even the strongest killer to do that. Nurse is definitely stronger and I think jury is still out on if Judgment or Henry is stronger.
The shrine thing I've said earlier in the thread I agree with and should be changed. Way too easy to tunnel on Judgement atm.
The aura thing I'm done responding to until someone tells me which specific aura perks are unfair because they all have trade offs I've never seen a single person acknowledge.
And again I must ask if Judgment is so broken why has she dropped off so hard since release and why is her kill rate at least according to nightlight not particularly high? Because she's in the low to mid 50s and I remember Jason's kill rate being in the high 60s on release.
There is no point arguing about aura perks, the problem is the killer power which should be changed not to injure when there is no LoS to the survivor. Until a major change like this, the killer will just continue be a snoozefest for survivors and make killer players feel like they have "skill" when pressing one button while aiming at an aura.
So the nemesis combo means you know when Judgment can see you which means your awareness should be way up whenever you become the obsession. I do think it triggers a little too often but that's an issue with perks not Judgement and I don't think Judgement is even the best user of the combo like I think it's way more disgusting on Nurse, Blight Billy. You probably hit celestial witness over nemesis I think if you hit anything cuz I think that's the enabler but we'll need more data to see how problematic it really is but it does seem strong on not just Judgement.
Gearhead is good on Judgement but you first need to get an injure and then you need a survivor to hit a good skill check and then you have to hope they don't dodge when you aim at them and then you have hope they're greedy enough to work on the gen injured. I feel like that's enough conditions that's fine.
Idk what "100% aura add-on" means unless you mean they run an aura add on 100% of the time which I think is what you mean. Which personally I don't I usually run some combination of Electric Torch/Crown of the Destroyer/Order of Inquisition/Mark of the Adherant because I put a lot more value on making the beam harder to dodge than auras because good survivors are really catching onto how to dodge the beam. That being said I'm not gonna say the aura read add-ons are bad, I think the trade off for the blindfold of it has to be the person with the least amount of hook states is okay but 7 seconds with lethal is probably a bit too long, could see this being lowered to 3 seconds without causing an uproar. Teleceptor is good I will run it on occasion but it does have the trade off of giving the survivors object on all your aura reading not just that add on, I really don't think the add on is a problem because you're giving the survivor the ability to see you and react.
tl;dr- I could see Blindfold and Celestial Witness getting nerfed but I think Gearhead and Teleceptor have enough trade offs that they're fair.
so if the every once in a while game you have you cant sabo on means you cant sabo the other 95% of games? am i understanding you right?
not all playstyles will be viable every match. thats not anywhere near new to the judgement.
No? This is the first killer besides sorta pyramid head who totally ignores sabo and flashlight saves. And I feel like I should point out that because Judgment is easily an S tier/top of A tier killer and they are new it's gonna be like 20% for the next couple of months. Which yeah I'm not going to bring a build if it just does nothing in a fifth of my games. Especially since, it's not even that strong of a build.
Look at the end of the day it's fine, it's just a game but you need to understand that Judgment's existence in their current state will directly lead to more genrushing and less build diversity. It's not healthy for the game and should be looked at.
so a build that works 80% of the time isnt worth bringing? can you not see how i struggle to take this seriously? they are absolutely not being played ANYWHERE near 20% of games on NA servers anyways.
genrushing isnt a thing i recognise. thats the survivors job is to do gens and excluding a few killers that create sub objectives, there is nothing else for them to do.
I mean there is still build diversity when you dont think a build that doesnt have 100% viability every match means its worthless and not to be brought.
My man, no a build is not worth bringing if you can't reasonably rely on it. Sabo was already barely worth bringing because of how strong slugging already is. Meanwhile Gen builds works in 100% of games. I understand your mindset if you are a casual player in low mmr but like, this is just basic common sense for anyone whose skilled at the game. Nerfing alternatively playstyles will directly lead to less people playing them. That's why you don't see killers or survivors running stuff like haste builds after diminishing returns got implemented. Making niche builds worse means less people playing them, it's just common sense.
the midset that if you shouldnt use a perk if you dont get 100% value in it every single match is why people use 5 perks every game and find it boring.
l;iterally every single build can be countered in some way or another or at least mitigated, its just some perks are not used often. you can make anti exhaustion builds and greatly weaken those builds but people dont bring them, so you think it works 100% of the time.
in a game about tactic/perk vs other counters and such its poor game design to build perks that have nothing to potentially encounter it. gen rushing perks have counters called gen regression that mitigates what those do.
]your playstyle wasnt nerfed, it stille xists, but killers all have different ways of plays and things they are good or poor against.
yea you dont get to prevent hooking if your against the judgment, you have to do so something else. thats prioper game design instead of 1 power set that can be agaisnt it. thats why there are anti heal killers, anti loop kills, zoning killers, mobility killers, ect because there are different playstyles and they excel at some things and worse at others.
there are also perks that make saboing harder btw, counters to your build already exists but people dont tend to run them. so your issue is more that you actually encountered a killer that makes you play differently. thats not a bad thing. adapt.
My guy, I get that. But there's a cutoff point. If a perk has insane value in one out of every hundred games it does not matter how good it is, no one's running it. Likewise, because sabo as a build kinda sucks and requires 3~4 perks to pull off I don't want to dedicate my whole build to it if there's a high chance of it just not mattering at all next match when it was never that good to start with.
If it was the furthest 2 statues, then just like PH. Caging/exiling 90% of the time would be a bad play to do. Any regular PH players do not cage on demand for that exact reason just like no Judgement player exiles 2+ players simulteanously for the exact same reason. It's killing your own pressure and macro play.
Zealous is not worth: exile → 2 seconds later unhook. Just like for PH, caging when you are not in a great position is a misplay because most of the time it's just a free unhook for the survivor team
Nah after the curve buff Zealous is now very worth it as you can use your power in loops much easier.
It's worth it already because it means not having to go all the way to a hook, letting you keep pressure up instead of having a break in the tempo.
I just hate that players who got freed from exile can spawn in front of the killer without any anti-tunnel except one BT. Thats silly.
obsession changes are clearly visible via the HUD, and by the person becoming the obsession getting oblivious in the nemesis celestial witness combo. it is very hard to overlook
Pyramidhead there though sounds like a good mechanic. Players should be faced with decisions of 'do I use this or not?' Just 'use this, always' seems like a bad design.
the tool is their eyes also distortion and shadowstep exist
It's easy to see the new killer was made by BHVR and killer main community, no input from survivor POV.
if it works 80% of your games then it has an awfully high chance of working not a high chance of not working.
Have you ever considered that some people actually play both killer and survivor side? Feedback for this killer’s design came from people who play both sides, as they always should to ensure good balance. BHVR is not going to design the killer based on feedback from survivor-only players who want the killer to be as weak and useless as possible. Judgment was literally nerfed upon release based on complaints from survivor players, so don’t act like BHVR is not listening to survivor feedback.
IMG_9571.jpegLots of people here who play survivor have given positive feedback about the new killer. I am a very average survivor player and I’ve enjoyed my matches against the Judgment. It’s not that hard to dodge the ranged attack if you’re 1) paying attention while you’re working on gens or totems and 2) put in a little bit of effort to learn how to mind-game it while in chase.
Also, I thought you said you had uninstalled a while ago so how do you even know what the new killer is like to play against?
I think the main point of OP's point being with those 2 perks is the aura reading is so constant its eating distortion and because you're being sniped by judgement a lot you're not able to build up the tokens. As with shadow step just like the suffering of hex totems you are at the whim of RNG which I thought is a reason people think hex totems are #########.
So yes the only 2 tools survivors really have against this level of aura reading is kinda low.