What's stopping survivors from hiding for 10 minutes and "winning"?
Am I understanding correctly that if two survivors left just don't touch gens for 10 minutes they can just force the killer to end the match with no penalty for hostage holding with no objective progress?
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It's the first stage. At a later stage they will introduce anti hiding to prevent survivors from avoiding gens while hiding for long periods of time. Untill then survivors probably will try to wait out 10min then get disappointed when the killer refuses to surrender and it turns into another hour long match where no one does anything until server ends and survivors get sacrificed automatically
They really do need to do something to with anti hiding
No, the majority of survivors that hostage holding level hide don't do it because of the way the killer is playing. They do it because it's the last avenue they have to assert any control over a lost game, even at the cost of their own time.
I have seen it from both sides. I have seen teammates start to do it (and then spectated) against killers that were playing normally. I have had survs to it to me and I play about as fairly and "normally" as any killer you'll find. And yeah, I have seen people do it to killers who were being dbags, but I suspect they would have done it anyway. If I'm in a game with an insufferable killer, I usually just want out.
I've been tempted to do it to toxic killers who left us on the ground constantly as a " you waste my time, I'll waste yours" type thing, but I always decide that it isn't worth even more of my time to be that petty.
Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with a lot of people's "I only did X because my opponent did Y so it's not my fault" mentality. People need to take ownership of their own behavior. There's no valid reason to just hunker down just to stall a game out.
They deleted distortion, for exactly this problem, and have given killers 8346572 aura reading perks, abilities, and add-ons.
While I know that "anti hiding" is planned already, I genuinely feel that "finding survivors" is a fundamental killer skill. You can genuinely find people without aura reads at all, if you use game sense and are even vaguely aware of your surroundings.
A huge portion of these "I can't find survivors who are hiding from me" result in "oh, apparently they were in the basement and I didn't think to check there for some reason".
Killers can find survivors because survivors tend to be around generators or hooked survivors and can only move so far before the killer gets to them without running, which leaves scratch marks and leads the killer to them. Killers can't find anyone if they are just hiding in obscure corners of the map, moving just enough to avoid triggering crows.
If you truly believe that finding survivors who are out in the open is the pinnacle of the hunting skill, then I can't help you (and the devs aren't going to be capable of giving enough hand holding either).
Again, there are perks that can assist with location, including auras, screams, killer instinct, and more, even if you're struggling. Part of the "game sense" mechanic is knowing where survivors were, and where they are likely to be given where you've been.
If it's getting to the 10 minute mark and you're still guarding gens instead of opening lockers, that's not the games fault. Nor are survivors required to give themselves up.
I can't emphasize this enough, distortion was nerfed for exactly this scenario. And if you're struggling with this scenario often, iron maiden is basically a hard counter also.
Wow.
Hiding and not doing anything for a really long time is considered taking the game hostage and it is a ban able offense. If the devs implemented a system that can track if a survivor doesn't touch a gen for 10 minutes so that the killer can surrender, this same system should be able to instantly ban the survivors.
Devs seem to not even taken any consideration how malicious its being used. It needs to go else amma stop posting till its gone. Why make here reddit 2.0?
BHVR has plans to stop the hiding though, it’s one of the planned QOL changes coming this year.
Boredom. Ideally, the Idle Crow system, although it can be too easily circumvented for me to say that with any amount of confidence.
But, to me, it's the same reason killers dont always hard proxy to wait out stages. It's boring. Chases are fun- more fun than idling in a corner and hoping the killer isn't more stubborn than them.
Sure, final two could just afk in a corner, using some new or old exploit to circumvent the Idle Crow system. But that sucks, even if you do it for ten minutes straight it's just. Super boring. Mind-numbing, even.
Killers still have to choose to surrender. It's not an auto-win.
That's just making up fake history. After Distortion was nerfed, they added exactly zero aura perks to the game, ones that highlight survivors directly anyway. Or if we count the ones that show progressed gen auras, 1.
And this talk of skill in regards to tracking hiders. It has nothing to do with skill. If you've searched the whole map, and can't find the survivors, because you missed a pixel of their body in the corner of your eye, that's not a lack of skill. That's just being human. And there's an implication that hiding takes skill. It doesn't. The killer just can't find you. Skill would be looping. That's what the game has been pushed towards.
Why is the this specific surrender scenario even needed? What killer is going to want to choose to surrender when survivors are hiding and not doing gens? This was not thought through very well at all. The other surrender scenarios are fine, but this one is incredibly stupid. Just release the “reveal survivors that are doing nothing” mechanic along with the other surrender options that actually make sense at the same time.
Yes, the only thing this encourages is trying to make the killer surrender. Aura or idle crows would have been a better option here.
majority of survs literally hold the game hostage after 2 are remaining in order to unnecessarily waste killer's time and eventually force a DC
Well that would be a draw and if you can't find them in 10 minutes that's on you?
The hiding they need to address isn't the sort of thing aura reading can help you with.
I got held hostage for 40 minutes once in Pale Rose by two survivors who realized they could no longer win the match (both on death hook). They never touched a generator or did anything. They just hid in the outskirts around the edges of the map and woke each other up repeatedly (I was Freddy) in hopes that I would get frustrated and DC.
I did absolutely nothing to "deserve" this. I didn't camp, slug, tunnel. I was on pre-rework Freddy so I wasn't playing an OP killer. Surge was my only regression perk.
This situation has only happened to me 2 times in my almost 4000 hours, but still.
Scott Jund has a video displaying this kind of behavior called "The Pettiest Game I've Ever Played" where the entire survivor squad spawned in only trying to hide and not progress the game state.
I mean the downvote button needs to go sorry I was not clear xd.
Yea survivor hiding has happened like…. a handful of times across several thousand hours here.
Its annoying as hell but you just report in this case. Its not common at all.
I'm not condoning, or saying this is something that anyone should ever do. In fact, it's against game rules to do this so excessively, so please report people. If it's truly this rare, then taking screenshot and reporting through proper channels is exactly what that system is for.
That said, finding survivors is a fundamental skill for the killer.
Regarding your video: A) posted in August 24 before the distortion nerf (which, again, was to target this exact kind of scenario) B) Scott's build has no information in it, and the game ended in a 4k. So this is a pretty big indicator for me that I'm right: if you have the game sense and skill to locate survivors this isn't an issue. You even admit this is not common, it's not meta.
Pulling a "forum killer main" move: there are also tons of perks that help with this. Auras are just one part of information. Iron maiden, weave attunement, whispers, and spies are all information that solve these issues.
And I can't stress this enough, these perks are optional. But the biggest complaints I see on here about "killers who can't find survivors" are people who also run quad slowdown and then seem shocked that survivors aren't standing in the open. People who have tried nothing and are out of ideas.
Anti hiding is already on the list. On top of the surrender option they're putting in next. So the devs are working on something to help, even after the distortion nerf. So until we see what that is, I'm not sure why people seem to be expecting still more on top of all that.
They honestly should just hold off on this specific surrender option until the anti-hiding mechanic is out. Keep the other surrender options, but just delay this one until the anti-hiding is out.
Without the anti-hiding, this will just encourage certain players to just not do anything in hopes the killer will surrender. Whether the killer does surrender or not though doesn’t really matter because it still leads to the scenario they are trying to prevent occurring more. Which is kind of the opposite of what they wanted to do.
So unless they decide to make this count as a win for the killer, there’s just really no reason to release this without the anti-hiding side as well.
I've never been held hostage as a survivor by a killer boxing me in a corner and going AFK. But just because that's a rare thing to happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen and shouldn't be addressed. BHVR is rightly taking actions to ensure it won't happen anymore.
There's a reason this is addressing "extreme hiding" which is the kind of situation I was stuck in on that Pale Rose match. Playing stealthy is a part of the game and a valid playstyle, but you should still be trying to win the match.
What about a survivor spawning in with no intention to do anything but hide and let their allies die so they can get hatch? That's a thing that happens occasionally and it falls under the same category.
We had to remove prestiges because this community can't handle statistics so I'm surprised down votes were added.
I wasn't trying to make anything you said vile, in fact I thought you were concerned about something legitimate and you misunderstood what I was saying, which is stealth being made less of a valid playstyle. I thought you were worried that in trying to address a rare situation, they would end up punishing players who are not trying to be malicious. I was just making a distinction between playing stealthy and trying to troll the killer and/or your own team.
I assumed that when you said I was "jumping on the bandwagon" I was trying to imply that stealth shouldn't be in the game, since you seemed concerned about hiding. I know that a lot of people are mad that stealth has become harder due to powerful aura perks like Nowhere To Hide and the nerfing of Distortion, and I thought that's what you were trying to defend.
The fact is that I actually have been stuck in 30+ minute long matches on two separate occasions because of survivors doing what would qualify as "extreme hiding" - aka, not attempting to progress the game state at all. I would very much like that to not be incentivized by rewarding survivors who frustrate a killer into surrendering with a win. I do not think that is a fair or reasonable course of action.
I do not think it counts as jumping on a bandwagon when I have been subjected to this situation twice and I don't want it to happen again.
The mechanic is meant to give you a way out without a penalty when you are unable to find survivors or held hostage! It is not a win condition. You can still choose to search for them for ages. It’s up to you.
I have mixed feelings about it. I think it's better if people can only hold the game hostage for about 10 minutes, as opposed to an hour. But as long as it's not detrimental to them to hold the game hostage, they will probably keep doing it. And more people might do it, because now it's only a short commitment. So, this is a harm reduction solution, I guess. Better than nothing.
You cannot force the killer ti surrender. Its still their own choice to use the option or not. Also, why would someone - who just wants to play the game - waste 10 minutes of their own time to hide for a meager chance the other side is sick of the gameplay?
Why do you seem to take issue with a mechanic that is designed to prevent behaviour that is straight up against the rules of the game? Every time a thread is made about excessive hiding and hostage situations you seem to show up crying "skill issue".
It is not about people only guarding generators for 10 minutes. It is not that hard to hide from the killer for massive stretches of time if you ignore the objective entirely. You don't even need lockers to hide, just find one of the plentiful secluded corners in the map, and maybe move every now and then.
People who are asking for AFK Crows to be improved are not asking to make it easier to find Survivors in the terms of intended gameplay. They just don't want to deal with situations where the Survivors hide until the server closes and refuse to play the game.
Also, Distortion did not get nerfed "for exactly this scenario". It was nerfed for being far too effective as a counter to aura reading across the board.
Excessively hiding survivors is also a problem for survivors, because when the game is down to 2 survivors, if only one of the survivors excessively hides, then the other survivor is at a severe disadvantage.
Instead of both survivors having a chance at hatch, it’s usually just the survivor that’s willing to excessively hide for longer that has the advantage.
To be honest, if killers don't find a survivor within 10 mins, it is a huge tell on the skill of the killer. Devs couldn't make it easier to see, hear, and wallhack survivors in the game. A killer deserves to lose if they can't find someone with all the props in the game.
It is funny to comprehend that "survivors" are punished for evading the unstoppable force as it is simply put.
It's no different than bodyblocking a survivor into a corner where they can't move. You're not forcing them to disconnect - they could just sit there and wait out the automatic match close timer (1 hour now, I believe it is?). Realistically, it's a ridiculous statement, but it's no different than hiding all game and forcing the killer to also have to wait for the automatic game closure. At least killers will have a 10 minute wait instead of the automatic closure. Regardless, it's silly that survivors failing to do their objectives opens up the killer accepting defeat.
Why would someone waste 4 minutes of their own, and somebody else's, time by slugging for the 4k? Many "reasons";
Thirsty for the Mori animation.
On a winstreak.
Pure spite.
Adept achievement.
Near-guaranteed victory by essentially removing Hatch from the equation.
Annoyed after getting steamrolled by another team previously.
Getting the other side to give up because they were sick of the gameplay was the Chess Merchant playstyle's whole thing.
People will waste other people's time, and their own, in this game for a plethora of reasons, no matter how ridiculous or petty said "reasons" are.
It's already commonplace for SWF to try to deny the Finisher Mori at all costs (leaving at the last possible moment if the Killer is waiting over a slug for the Mori to make EGC or bleedout timer kill the last Survivor instead) out of spite. Do you really think that Survivors won't try to bore the Killer into "surrendering" the moment they realize they can't win normally?
Quite frankly, I think the wording BHVR used in the patch notes made it way worse. Calling it "surrendering" when Survivors are simply staying away for too long just innately sounds like a loss even though the Killer typically has the advantage in those situations.
I imagine that, if the mechanic sees live servers, then Killers that end up 3-genning (accidentally or not) will now end up in a reverse-Chess Merchant situation where Survivors (mostly SWF) will simply stay away and hope to outlast the Killer's patience and proceed to mock the Killer if they "surrender", there's no way those "surrenders" won't be clipped out of context to make "ragequit compilation" videos (unless there's a special animation for it from the Survivor's POV).
No matter how you play, some people will be dicks. Playing well is not being toxic. Getting 2 kills isn't toxic either. But that's literally all it takes for people to do this. Not even that, if we consider the (thankfully rare) groups of survivors that start hiding right at the start of the match without ever touching a gen.