Not to discredit your ideas, the Thana one is good, but that still wouldn’t address the issue of why many experienced survivors feel safe whether healthy, injured, broken, or exposed.
The DH idea would be problematic because it then couldn’t be used with No Mither, which is kinda the point of David’s unique loadout.
My reasoning behind the DH thing is to make being healthy more beneficial over being injured. Currently when faced with 1 shoting abilities, ppl would rather be injured so they can benefit from the DH. As far as no mither thing, you could change it so the survivor doesn't have an "injured" state. This would also make it so Thana isn't permanently active because of no mither.
Thana's intention was to incentivize healing, but since it's debuff is so minimal AND it debuffs healing... It fails at making ppl want to heal.
Adrenaline is an odd case..because it has no downside or viable weakness..I mean..its an insta heal, almost double duration sprint burst. And ignores exaustion..that's pretty insane..especially when you still get the benefits no matter what your doing or whether your hooked or not
Downside being you have to survive to the endgame to even use it.
The only thing NOED and Adrenaline have in common is the condition of activation. One is a "win more" perk, the other one is a "lose less" perk. This comparison gives me pinky toe cancer every single time.
The reason this is an issue is because it has now the revealed the deeper hidden issue: Healthy, exposed, injured doesn’t matter if the killer can’t close distance on the survivor, and if a survivor is able to constantly create distance from the killer.
Now I play both survivor and killer so I don’t believe in any suggestion that could make things completely one sided. But there needs to be an additional detriment to the injured state that makes sense.
I reckon injure survivors should become fatigued, so that after remaining injured for longer than 120 seconds (which I think is pretty liberal), then injured survivors should suffer a permanent hindered status of between 3% to 5% debuff (until fully healed).
No Mither? Buff it to be completely immune to hindered, making it a more attractive perk if encountering Clown or Freddy.
I'd like to see a debuff to running when injured for so long. Perhaps if you are injured for 60 seconds after the chase is broken or after being removed from the hook, you suffer a 1% debuff to run speed as you are losing blood and are unable to coordinate as well. That debuff increases by 1% every 60 seconds outside of the killer's TR to a max of 5%.
If you are the last remaining survivor, you no longer suffer injury debuffs.
Edit: Along with this, I think SOME of the healing nerf should be rolled back. Between the two, we might find some balance and encourage a change in gameplay for both sides. Playing injured will be more dangerous, as will focusing too much on one survivor. It will be more advantageous to let an injured survivor go in order to pressure another and injure them, letting the first stay injured long enough to get the debuff and become easier prey. If they heal, that is one less set of hands on a gen, two if someone heals them.
Being injured is worse than being exposed both for the survivor and the killer. As a survivor, if you don’t have Iron Will, you will be heard, and even if you do you still bleed. The chances of being found are higher.
Now; from the killer’s perspective, an exposed survivor won’t have dead hard available to use so it’s better to go after in a chase.
I've never had a killer get mad for survs. not healing and I've not seen it come up on the forums as killer complaint before either. What info led you to think killers get upset if you don't? Even the kings of gen-rushing 4 man swf's heal but as with most things, it's very situational.
It's funny, killers were crying about self care and healing is to fast. Now after they nerfed healing times and survivors adapted they want to nerf adrenaline
Adapted as in removing a perk (self care) and deal with it to be injured most of the time. Nice mental gymnastics you are doing, hardcore killer main or just newbie?
Adapted as in removing a perk (self care) and deal with it to be injured most of the time. Nice mental gymnastics you are doing, hardcore killer main or just newbie?
Rank 1 survivor and killer, actually. Adrenaline is obviously busted, especially in a group.
Honestly, there should be a downside to being injured at base. There are a good few ideas that were in here, and I'd also think something along the lines of a scaling repair debuff, say 20% over 70 seconds regardless of proximity to killer would be neat. I'm just spewing ideas, but you have the same running potential being injured as you are healthy. I think there's a lot you could do with that.
Honestly, there should be a downside to being injured at base. There are a good few ideas that were in here, and I'd also think something along the lines of a scaling repair debuff, say 20% over 70 seconds regardless of proximity to killer would be neat. I'm just spewing ideas, but you have the same running potential being injured as you are healthy. I think there's a lot you could do with that.
Uhm, there us a downside. You leave blood, killer can hear your pain noises and you are one-shot. U can't see the forest with all the trees.
Just because you play survivor doesn't make you automatically unbiased.
It also doesn’t make me a hardcore killer main lol. I see the game through both perspectives. Survivor is incredibly easy compared to killer. I have limited juking ability as survivor but since i know the loops and tiles, I can abuse them and waste a ton of the killer’s time. And that’s just basic survivor; add perks like adrenaline and dstrike and we reach crazy levels of OP.
Jokes on you, not healing counters exposed effect (by making it irrelevant).
When I see injured people do gens, and it's 1-2 gen situation, it's an obvious adrenaline play. When survivors do gens injured "it's a high risk high reward adrenaline play" (no way survs use it for whoopnig 5 seconds of speed boost). On another hand, when killer let gens go to get noed activated faster it's "bad killer gets rewarded for being bad".
Anyway, being injured is dangerous most of the time, but dangerous play stops being dangerous when the danger gets removed in matter of seconds. So basically the whole complain about survivors not healing themselves is actually more about survivors getting healed without actually spending time healing.
ppl dont heal against m1 killers since they are no threat and can be easily looped to death (depends on the map too). but they usually heal against spirit/nurse since this two killers are feared. i think there should be a penalty for staying injured for too long.
It's funny, killers were crying about self care and healing is to fast. Now after they nerfed healing times and survivors adapted they want to nerf adrenaline
YEEEP!! NAILED IT! THEY WANT YET ANOTHER PERK NERFED.
That's not true. The exposed status effect applies often in unexpected moments taking survivors off guard*, but a injured survivor knows and changes his playstyle to be sure to always have his guard up and not be taken by surprise.
*and when it doesn't, it's way less effective and there are high chances it will be wasted.
I dont know what you want.. Are you seriously complaining about adrenaline right now? Come on, stop that. It's a Totally balanced perk and actually is one of the perks who rewards for good gameplay (unlike certain killer perks cough cough noed cough cough)
But killers with NOED also plays with just 3 perks untill the end game, so that is a major draw back ( especially because killers needs perks more than survivors ). Also, if survivors find the Hex totem ( which they will, totem placements are garbage ), then the killer gets just a single down due to NOED.
If you've got all four survivors injured, that's between 32 and 128 seconds of healing time, since they can heal simultaneously.
We aren't talking time in the sense of "128 seconds from all survivors injured to all survivors healed," we're talking about 128 second of work between the survivors.
In the same sense a generator takes 80 seconds, but 4 survivors completing a gen in slightly more than 20 seconds is still 80 seconds spent between them.
It's important to know the distinction, as it's why things like self care need AT LEAST a 50% penalty, as any less would make it take less time for the whole team.
Not healing sounds like It'd work in the killers favor on paper but in actuality it all depends on the situation.
There's a couple of killers that could capitalize on it like Nurse, Spirit, Hag, Huntress, Freddy or Hillbilly but against these killers people know it's dangerous to be always injured so they will in fact heal.
The problem lies with the Weaker killers being essentially just M1 killers with nothing to help in a chase so they can be looped for long periods of time. Just look at the Plague, She's a perfect example of this. When all survivors are Broken and refuse to cleanse to heal she has instadowns but becomes an M1 Killer with no real power.
If a Survivor is somewhat decent at running why would they waste time healing against a killer who has nothing to help in a chase when they could just sit on Generators and Loop until they get adrenaline.
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Comments
Lol I must understand them well enough
My reasoning behind the DH thing is to make being healthy more beneficial over being injured. Currently when faced with 1 shoting abilities, ppl would rather be injured so they can benefit from the DH. As far as no mither thing, you could change it so the survivor doesn't have an "injured" state. This would also make it so Thana isn't permanently active because of no mither.
Thana's intention was to incentivize healing, but since it's debuff is so minimal AND it debuffs healing... It fails at making ppl want to heal.
Downside being you have to survive to the endgame to even use it.
The only thing NOED and Adrenaline have in common is the condition of activation. One is a "win more" perk, the other one is a "lose less" perk. This comparison gives me pinky toe cancer every single time.
I dont count that because as long as your running an exaustion perk it doesnt hurt the survivor in the slightest
I'd like to see a debuff to running when injured for so long. Perhaps if you are injured for 60 seconds after the chase is broken or after being removed from the hook, you suffer a 1% debuff to run speed as you are losing blood and are unable to coordinate as well. That debuff increases by 1% every 60 seconds outside of the killer's TR to a max of 5%.
If you are the last remaining survivor, you no longer suffer injury debuffs.
Edit: Along with this, I think SOME of the healing nerf should be rolled back. Between the two, we might find some balance and encourage a change in gameplay for both sides. Playing injured will be more dangerous, as will focusing too much on one survivor. It will be more advantageous to let an injured survivor go in order to pressure another and injure them, letting the first stay injured long enough to get the debuff and become easier prey. If they heal, that is one less set of hands on a gen, two if someone heals them.
Being injured is worse than being exposed both for the survivor and the killer. As a survivor, if you don’t have Iron Will, you will be heard, and even if you do you still bleed. The chances of being found are higher.
Now; from the killer’s perspective, an exposed survivor won’t have dead hard available to use so it’s better to go after in a chase.
I've never had a killer get mad for survs. not healing and I've not seen it come up on the forums as killer complaint before either. What info led you to think killers get upset if you don't? Even the kings of gen-rushing 4 man swf's heal but as with most things, it's very situational.
“Adapted” as in equipping a broken perk. Okay....
Adapted as in removing a perk (self care) and deal with it to be injured most of the time. Nice mental gymnastics you are doing, hardcore killer main or just newbie?
Rank 1 survivor and killer, actually. Adrenaline is obviously busted, especially in a group.
Honestly, there should be a downside to being injured at base. There are a good few ideas that were in here, and I'd also think something along the lines of a scaling repair debuff, say 20% over 70 seconds regardless of proximity to killer would be neat. I'm just spewing ideas, but you have the same running potential being injured as you are healthy. I think there's a lot you could do with that.
So hardcore killer main. Good to know, nice to avoid.
Uhm, there us a downside. You leave blood, killer can hear your pain noises and you are one-shot. U can't see the forest with all the trees.
Me playing survivor makes me a hardcore killer? Interesting logic 🤔
Just because you play survivor doesn't make you automatically unbiased.
It also doesn’t make me a hardcore killer main lol. I see the game through both perspectives. Survivor is incredibly easy compared to killer. I have limited juking ability as survivor but since i know the loops and tiles, I can abuse them and waste a ton of the killer’s time. And that’s just basic survivor; add perks like adrenaline and dstrike and we reach crazy levels of OP.
And just because you throw around ad hominems your argument doesn't automatically get good
Not healing for the last gens to get Adrenaline to go off was always a thing. The Self-Care nerf didn't improve this tactic at all
Jokes on you, not healing counters exposed effect (by making it irrelevant).
When I see injured people do gens, and it's 1-2 gen situation, it's an obvious adrenaline play. When survivors do gens injured "it's a high risk high reward adrenaline play" (no way survs use it for whoopnig 5 seconds of speed boost). On another hand, when killer let gens go to get noed activated faster it's "bad killer gets rewarded for being bad".
Anyway, being injured is dangerous most of the time, but dangerous play stops being dangerous when the danger gets removed in matter of seconds. So basically the whole complain about survivors not healing themselves is actually more about survivors getting healed without actually spending time healing.
Nice strawman I guess, cuz I never said this
ppl dont heal against m1 killers since they are no threat and can be easily looped to death (depends on the map too). but they usually heal against spirit/nurse since this two killers are feared. i think there should be a penalty for staying injured for too long.
YEEEP!! NAILED IT! THEY WANT YET ANOTHER PERK NERFED.
That's not true. The exposed status effect applies often in unexpected moments taking survivors off guard*, but a injured survivor knows and changes his playstyle to be sure to always have his guard up and not be taken by surprise.
*and when it doesn't, it's way less effective and there are high chances it will be wasted.
But killers with NOED also plays with just 3 perks untill the end game, so that is a major draw back ( especially because killers needs perks more than survivors ). Also, if survivors find the Hex totem ( which they will, totem placements are garbage ), then the killer gets just a single down due to NOED.
We aren't talking time in the sense of "128 seconds from all survivors injured to all survivors healed," we're talking about 128 second of work between the survivors.
In the same sense a generator takes 80 seconds, but 4 survivors completing a gen in slightly more than 20 seconds is still 80 seconds spent between them.
It's important to know the distinction, as it's why things like self care need AT LEAST a 50% penalty, as any less would make it take less time for the whole team.
Not healing sounds like It'd work in the killers favor on paper but in actuality it all depends on the situation.
There's a couple of killers that could capitalize on it like Nurse, Spirit, Hag, Huntress, Freddy or Hillbilly but against these killers people know it's dangerous to be always injured so they will in fact heal.
The problem lies with the Weaker killers being essentially just M1 killers with nothing to help in a chase so they can be looped for long periods of time. Just look at the Plague, She's a perfect example of this. When all survivors are Broken and refuse to cleanse to heal she has instadowns but becomes an M1 Killer with no real power.
If a Survivor is somewhat decent at running why would they waste time healing against a killer who has nothing to help in a chase when they could just sit on Generators and Loop until they get adrenaline.