Slugging Kaneki needs to go.
Every game against Kaneki is the same sh*t, Killers do this sh*t and then proceed to complaing about the anti-slug update to oblivion until it got reversed on PTB. For real, you already downed everyone, just f*cking hook so we can go to the next game, instead of forcing people to DC
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Bleedouts technically don't count as kills on the stat page so I'd assume that's true for the games inrernals as well, which makes sense, since the loading screen says "hooking a survivor is the killer's primary objective". I've sure never done it so i can't be sure, but if 4 survivors bleedout it should register as a 0k in stats. I doubt the people who do that care but that is the case.
Yesss sarcasm extremely funny sprintburst is still as is
This gets upvoted though lmaoooo
There's no reason for it to be fixed by nerfing it though. The issue currently is survivors are potentially super man off hook so a lot of killer understandably don't want to deal with that. The issue isn't slugging being too oppressive rather it's certain killers being the most effective at it and survivor just being overtuned against a lot of the killers at the moment. This is something BHVR just needs to understand
Who cares
They are only "superman" off of the hook if your goal is to tunnel them. Just go for the person doing the unhooking instead, geez.
And no, survivor isn't overtuned. Had it been the case, then escape rates of 50% or more would have been the norm, not the exception. On the contrary, quite a few killers are highly overtuned at the moment, and if the killer playerbase would actually play the game in a normal manner, instead of artificially keeping the kill-rates low by slugging/bleeding out, then I am sure we could have seen the true stats behind them all.
I play mostly Trickster nowadays (the times I actually play killer), and over my past 30 days, the average is 73.28% KR
No tunneling, no excessive slugging, only hooking and trying to 8-man before killing anyone off. And yet, I still hover way above the average. So do you really need 4-man bleedout slugs to "win"? Or are you just doing it because you like tormenting people?
Yeah they come off hook and body block you with their quad health state off hook build so you attempt to tunnel them and OOOOOHHH Shoulder the Burden on their next hook. So tunneling them just doesn't work as effectively anymore. Also 73% kill rate over the course of 29 matches? Really? Maybe if you had lets say 200 sure but this is legit like baby MMR considering on the website this is your "top killer".
When I'm talking about things like this I'm you know…. talking about GOOD players. Ones that will actually spread gen progress and wont drop in chases within 30 seconds. But since you can boast all this I would love your gameplay so I can point out the amount of survivor mistakes.
The reason is because its dull for people to be forced onto the ground for 4 minutes being able to do bumkiss and becoming more and more popular that its becoming a common scenario. Doesn't mater if its a nerf, side grade, or straight up removal, if it CONTINUES TO BE A PROBLEM THEN ITS GOING TO GET BHVR'ED. Thats whats going to happen.
Superman off hook?…really?…I really wanna see the hoops for that thought. Its funny how often i see a tunneled survivor die quickly despite being a so called superman. Ds? Annoyance. Resurgence? Annoyance. DH? Three for three (and ususally see sprint burst more, which is 4 for 4).
Super man off hook. Gets unhooked, healed, runs to chase off in the distance, takes 2 hits, downed, DS'd, and then DH'd. Quad healthstate off hook build and all it only really requires is being healed. Not to mention unhook perks the unhooker may have like Baby Sitter so tunneling them becomes impossible for those 30 seconds unless they pay literally no attention with that 120% movement speed. Please tell me how they're NOT superman off hook with the right build. At the very least we don't old OTR to make it so they can immediately run to a chase off hook with the old 80 second endurance.
Maybe if it still costed 75% of their build to have the quad health state off hook it would be MAYBE arguable but now when its only 50% it's genuinely insane.
To be fair, I don't play a lot of killer, but I regularly encounter players that has more than 5k hours, so I wouldn't say that they are anywhere near "baby MMR".
And my overall killer stats are 65.5% KR over some 80+ games, so still above average, against pretty decent survivors.
What I tend to see many killers doing wrong is that they over-commit to chases a lot, which wastes a lot of precious time, and against co-ordinated teams, this usually means a loss, but it is not guaranteed. I know when I misplay myself, and I tell myself to work on improving that, which is why my kill rates has increased from around 52-55% to over 70% over the span of two months or so.
Also sorry to OP for being a bit off-topic.
Just because something is a problem that doesn't mean it needs to be fixed improperly. Yes, slugging can be a problem (though some characters like Twins and Oni are designed to slug… which is another problem entirely) but the anti-slug update on the PTB was horrendous. Anyone who is not a hardcore survivor only player that refuses to consider a scenario where wins are not handed to them on a platinum platter could see that. Slugging being so prominent DOES need to be fixed, but it needs to be fixed RIGHT.
Actually it first requires you to be away from hook long enough for the heal, then for you to actively chase the one you know just got unhooked, then it requires you to pick up that one where any experienced killer would know the risks and chooses to take it and then continue tunneling that same survivor because your dead set on them apparently. Ya know so maybe go after the unhooker? Besides that obvious fact, the killers have ways to end chases quicker (Huntress can make shots making running into the distance pointless, Unknown and Hag can teleport, if freaking Trapper set up then alot of that is mute, Billy Blight catch up with billy having a bonus in instant downs, etc) which cuts pieces of that whole spectical. They aint superman, they definatly aint invincible, but if your going to directly tunnel and they prepared thats them bringing something(s) to counter another.
And if they dont have that build the killer can still try for free! Wild aint it?
There's more flex players and more killer mains that I see commenting more on the forums.
Sure, there's survivor mains who are lurking but to claim these forums are survivor-centric is beyond me.
If you believe that slugging everyone to a point of bleeding out or abandoning is okay and perfectly fine due to "second chance perks" then there is no rebuttal towards built-in UB when you're abusing a system, especially in the context of Kaneki and other S-tiers.
But it's either here nor there, I know I'm going to get a response talking about how second-chance perks are abusable, yet you're defending hyper-aggressive slugging to undermine the hooking mechanics, but go off King.
Oh, okay, then get on some M1 killer and go do it against folks who aren't noobs. Good luck.
If you need to 4 man slug, proxy camp, or tunnel at 5 gen; you're a trash killer.
It's not a strat.
It's an entitled selfish ego trip taking advantage of an unbalanced system.
It's a handycap for killer mains that hate survivor because it's so miserable due to this crap and refuse to acknowledge it.
I'll ruin cuz I'm not great with a killer, not because I expect the 4k.
This try hard mentality is the problem.
Perks are ment to help you, not make you a &*()$ing god at the game. (that no one cares about at the end of the day)
Nobody hates you if you don't get a 4k. Get over yourself.
They hate you for cheap trash playstyle regardless of the killer.
Low-mid tier killers are the ones where this playstyle is the least worth it, since they don't have the map control necessary to keep on top of survivors constantly or extend Coulrophobia out far enough. It can work, yes, but there's a good chance you'd beat those players using hooks.
I want to point out that the video this all originated from tried (whether intentionally or not) to put its thumb on the scale in favor of slugging by only counting 4ks as a killer win. Slugging only is the playstyle which is the most likely to result in a 4k or a 0k, as in you win completely or lose completely.
And even with that in mind, hooking was only below slugging in terms of wins by a couple of percentage points. And Pop has gotten buffed since then, and we've gotten more strong perks which activate off of hooking like Turn Back the Clock, Hex: Hive Mind, and to a lesser extent Ravenous. I think it was pre-Houndmaster, too, who came with Jagged Compass which really helps scourge hook builds.
It's also definitely not the best choice for a lot of killers. Like Xenomorph for example, Mr. Headache said he found the slug-only playstyle to be significantly more stressful. And it's obvious why if you understand the killer and why the playstyle works. Xeno removes its terror radius a lot by going underground, and it's smaller than normal in crawler mode. And while Xeno has good map traversal, it can only go where there are tunnel exits, so it can't keep on top of survivors trying to pick each other up.
None of this is to say the slugging-only playstyle is not as good as people make it out to be. It's very good. Too good, I would argue. I just think people are being kind of silly when they insist hooking isn't worth it at all. If your excuse for why you put people through this is "Well I don't want to, but BHVR is making me do it" you're being kind of overdramatic.
because the strategy is highly effective and counters the current surv meta?
Trapper?
I am fairly sure he could do really well if he uses the right build and setup.
Then again, in defense of @THE_Crazy_Hyena, the last time I touched Trapper, I got a super-fast 4K, because of unconventional trap placements, and good mind-games.
See, one trick to playing killer well is to play survivor, learn the counterplay, and then use a survivor mindset against them.
The Sprint Burst + Vigil meta? Last I checked, that was the most common build, alongside Five Moves Ahead, Finesse and Lithe.
Nothing that screams anti-hooking there.
decisive strike, dead hard, resurgence, stb, deliverance, all very common perks (especially from stronger teams)
DS is anti-tunnel, if the survivor using it is trying to get value, just ignore them, and let them waste 60 seconds, that could have otherwise been used on a gen.
Dead Hard is relatively easy to bait out. Props to the survivors who actually manage to pull off a good DH.
Resurgence can also be countered, but it isn't too big of a deal for most of the killer roster, since two-taps are not that hard to pull off.
STB is also anti-tunnel.
Deli is.. well deli. Either a blessing or a curse, that is not always guaranteed to work in the survivors' favor.
So either you complain about these perks, because you love tunneling, or you really don't know how to play around them. I hardly ever have any issues with either of these perks in my killer games, despite how prevalent they are, becuase I don't tunnel, or bleedout-slug for that matter.
if you play killer and observe imagined rules about 'tunneling' or whatever instead of playing optimally to try and win then we aren't playing the same game, not much point discussing it
The rulebook?
I don't follow any made up rules. I just play the game the intended way lol.
I think what I’m struggling with is that the examples I bring up gets dismissed with the same explanation, that in your opinion survivors were too strong. That regardless of the game state, it didn’t matter because survivors were always too strong.
And to be honest , I think your responses are unintentionally demonstrating my point. Every example I give still ends with a justification for why tunneling/slugging was the correct or necessary choice, in your opinion. Which is what I’m saying, that players who want to tunnel/slug will always find a reason to tunnel/slug, even if the game state changes.
That’s why I’m skeptical that simply making hooks stronger will solve the problem.Because if players already view tunneling/slugging as valuable under almost every game state we have ever had, then stronger hooks wont remove their incentive to play that way, it just make hooks stronger too.
That’s the part I think gets overlooked. We can’t say that people only play certain ways because of a specific game state, and then when evidence of other game states proves otherwise, change the answer to say people only plays certain ways because they feel survivor is too strong. If someone wants to play a certain way, they will always find a reason, regardless if it’s necessary or not.