Slugging Kaneki needs to go.
Every game against Kaneki is the same sh*t, Killers do this sh*t and then proceed to complaing about the anti-slug update to oblivion until it got reversed on PTB. For real, you already downed everyone, just f*cking hook so we can go to the next game, instead of forcing people to DC
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And yet tunneling also effects hook rates as it becomes significantly more likely you will get just a single hook on three survivors and three on one, hook rate - 6. So long as you define the killer win as 3k+ kill rate is going to be more representative than hook rate, instead of advocating for either of those we could just show a win rate, % of matches ending in 3k+ and get rid of all interpretation.
Nightlight stats are worse than the BHVR official stats. Players can self select which matches are uploaded alongside a massive selection bias for who uses the site. Its data set also includes at least some custom matches given that the map section includes map variants that can no longer be played in queue.
You have to go out of your way to just use the four man high mmr stats to get that 52% kill rate and ignore the fraction of matches those make up. You also ignore the stat for percent of matches that end with all generators getting completed, 49%, minimum killer win rate of 51%. Remember, exceptions don't make the rule.
The majority of people don't have 12k hours in this game and don't treat it like a job. This is cheese if for no other reason that you know you're exploiting both bad matchmaking and a bad system with nearly uncounterable tactics. If you were playing perkless and add-on-less, that would be skillful, but this is not.
Tell me how a soloqer counters Blindness, where they have no idea where a slugged person is? And how do they also counter not knowing where the killer is and getting slugged too? Would you like it if survivors could make you blind to gen locations (which isn't as bad, because they're static) as well as having no scratch marks or aura readability all match? Would you call that skillful on their end?
I don't know what it is with certain members of this community and talking about emotion as though this isn't a silly video game meant to be fun and not an exercise in pretending you're a heartless robot. You're doing things that are well known to make the majority of players unhappy, the sort of stuff that makes people quit the game, and for what? What do you gain?
Maybe I need to do an experiment one day, and find out how high I can winstreak (3K or more) on my main Trickster, while banning hard-tunneling and excessive slugging (a.k.a cheese strats).
It's not cheese at all and it's not exploiting anything. Everyone uses the bad matchmaking and it's extremely counterable, not even to a difficult degree. I'm sorry you don't agree, but it's very skillful.
Well for one, we already know the majority of matches are not solo queue first of all. Secondly you just look for the survivor on the ground. It's not hard. Takes time yes, but he's also not getting all the regression benefit that he would get from hooking with the meta regression perks. I won't really get into perks since you want base kit references but vigil hard counters it and is literally meta atm. How do they know where the killer is? Literal game sense. I don't run aura perks on survivor and I generally know the rough location of the killer most the time. This isn't a 12k hour thing either, it's basic. You're literally comparing apples to oranges. This is a silly comparison that doesn't work at all.
Painting someone as a heartless robot for a play style is quite ridiculous. People being irrational isn't my problem. I'm not accountable for instability. I would rather always be slugged than hooked. Me having fun isn't the killers responsibility. Especially when nothing is being done with malintent and simply strategy. Just because I think it's ridiculous to be bothered by slugging doesn't mean I'm going to shame or mock those people, they can feel how they want to feel. Trying to paint someone that slugs as a bad person is wild. That is part of the problem right there.
That's why if it were up to me I'd also make tunneling literally impossible, not just hard.
I don't think they're worse. They have no incentive to self select. You're references a very insignificant portion of the data for maps. That is only happening if someone for whatever random reason uploads very old data. Why they would even do that, much less a relevant amount.
There's a difference between balance for most matches and objective balance. Balance for what we see on average and objective balance being when it's actually good vs good matches which actually show true balance.
To be fair, 4-man slugging isn't skillful at all. It is abusing a mechanic that is in most cases completely uncounterable.
I mean, who are always running things like Unbreakable, WGLF, Made For This, etc.
It is not very common at all. Most survivors I see nowadays are running the usual SB+Vigil, Finesse and chase-oriented builds. Maybe the odd Deliverance or Shoulder the Burden, but I hardly ever encounter anti-slug in my games.
So this is clearly abusing a pretty uncounterable mechanic, that is really unfun and uninteractive to play against
I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is skillful.
I wouldn't say anti slug is meta, but WGLF is.
It's very counterable, it is fun, and it is more interactive than being hooked.
If you are suffering so much from being slugged that often - use unbreakable or any other perk that allows you either to recover or get to your team mates faster. Slugging is a part of the game and in some cases it can be the only viable option left for a killer.
If you got slugged once or twice then do what is often recommended - move on to the next game. After all, you won't be getting slugged 10 times out of 10 games, right?
just fix Kaneki and make this game more healthier
Unless tunneling becomes impossible it effects matches, match outcomes, and all stats those matches produce, you are effectively describing a different game than the one we currently have. Unless that happens hook rate remains a bad metric.
They are factually worse, making kill rates look worse than they actually are is incentive enough for some people and if you don't know what a selection bias is you probably should look that up, the basics are that the population using nightlight is unlikely to be representative of the entire population playing dbd. The entirety of the data set for the past month is 18,000 matches, steam players alone peak at above 50,000 players daily, that's more than 10,000 matches every 15ish minutes during peak time assuming everyone of them is in a queued match, which is unrealistic, but even if we say 5000 matches every 15 minutes you see that nightlight represents a tiny fraction of total matches played in a month and we haven't even included console players.
The balance at the very tip top of the game changes to survivor sided but we are talking about a tiny population of players and even then only when they are playing on comms in a four man. Queuing into public matches is factually killer sided.
4 man slugging is about as skillful as knowing when you need to return to the microwave for your pizza rolls before the beep goes off. Knowing how to apply pressure correctly is the skill you're misattributing to 4 man slugging. Some instances where slugging a survivor to apply pressure to a gen close to completion is the correct play. Slugging for the sake of slugging just to walk back to a survivor every 20 to 30 seconds to collect free health states on survivors looking to get their teammate back into the game is not skillful at all.
We understand that you feel that slugging is skillful, but 4 man slugging in and of itself isn’t. It's the other skills people apply, which do not require 4 man slugging to do, that actually requires game sense.
Well even if we were to assume that change does not happen, and the stats are skewed by tunneling, it is still significantly more accurate than kills regardless. Not accurate mind you, just more accurate.
That data pool is actually an extremely good sample size for studies. A made up premise that people are sticking data on their to artificial skew the data to me is silly and there's nothing to actually support this.
The size is significantly larger than you believe in my opinion.
I would probably agree that the "average" match is killer sided in the sense of most matches are against bad players. IE skewed killer because of player skill, not game balance. However I'd also say the game is objectively survivor sided and to a significant degree at that. IE good vs good, and by good I don't mean 4 man swf on coms that are comp players. I mean just solidly good 4 man.
Now of course these statements have a ton of nuance that could skew it depending what killers or map we're talking about though. The difference between like Ghostface and Nurse for example is a completely different game.
" just to walk back to a survivor every 20 to 30 seconds to collect free
health states on survivors looking to get their teammate back into the
game is not skillful at all."
Well it's a good thing I never said this right. I'm not defending slug camping nor is that even what I'm referencing in my conversations here. I do agree slug camping isn't skillful. No one really does slug camping though since it's gonna lose you the game as now you're giving them a metric ton of time to just sit on gens and leave.
You're conflating slug camping and just slugging. These aren't the same. I'm referencing slugging and completely leaving. This type of slugging is skillful. It's chase after chase and juggling 4 survivors
I run Unbreakable, but to be honest, it does not really do much against Killers who plan to slug from the start. It is a one time use and since this "strategy" is mostly done by high mobility Killers, it is not like I can get away from my position when I pick myself up until they are back at me.
But yeah, 4 man slugging is indeed not skillful. But if people can only win this way, they will call it skillful, obviously.
controlling slugged survs and denying pickups whilst trying to secure additional downs has infinitely more moving parts and thinking involved than hook>chase>hook, you can complain about it if you want but calling it skillless is simply offmark
It is far more inaccurate than kills, we literally define a win based on how many people are killed, not how many hooks they get. So long as these strategies exist and are prevalent they must be taken into account for how matches play out. Hooks don't better represent kills than kills do.
The fact that even a single customs match exists in the data set proves the data set is skewed and we can't even state how many matches in the set are customs, just that at least some are. You can't just ignore that and the obvious volunteer selection bias (amongst others) and claim good sampling. When they diverge as much as they do from official stats we can further dismiss them being remotely representative.
The stats show that even a solidly good 4 man loses more than they win. Your refusal to accept that doesn't make the game survivor sided, it makes you unwilling to accept anything that doesn't fit in line with your personal opinion. If you have some real evidence that doesn't have obvious holes that shows killers struggling then I am more than willing to look at and consider it but that data doesn't exist otherwise you would have presented it by now and not tried to pass off nightlight as representative.
You sure about that?
Then why are these "strategies" mostly done by killers who has instadown powers?
The answer is quite simple, because the "moving parts" are ridiculously easy to pull off.
Not everyone uses matchmaking. Don't put everyone in your box. I pull back when I see the match is skewed heavily in my favor, and I usually let someone have hatch, or let multiple people go, when a match is terribly unfair, or if someone threw. Not all of us care only about seeing four skulls on the results page.
So you've deemed tunneling as unskilled despite it having similar pitfalls to what you mention, but somehow slugging while using Blindness, Undetectable, and certain perks against soloqers is skillful. Your argument seems to be that you've decided that slugging is skillful because you think you're skillful. But something tells me your end game chat isn't full of "wow Mr. Killer you're so skillful." This strategy works solely because survivors aren't ready for ir, because it circumvents normal gameplay. If they knew in the lobby this would be happening and could adjust their builds you'd have a much harder time. It works because it's unexpected, not because of skill.
What's wild is participating in something you probably get told dozens of times a day is infuriating then trying to wash your hands of the responsibility of making people feel bad over a video game with dbd's most toxic mantra—I'm not responsible for your fun. You are responsible for their misery though.
Why you got kills matters significantly more than just if you got kills. That's why this matters.
Technically we don't have have proof of even one, I was just being generous here. So I wouldn't really say "the fact". In the grand scheme of the amount in the data pool little numbers like that don't matter to any relevance anyway. I just find it baffling to believe that there's tons of super old matches people are uploading to skew the data for no reason. It's just illogical. I wouldn't say I'm ignoring selection bias, I'd just point out that the selection bias of people that would in fact upload their data are probably better players, ie skewing the kill rates UP, not DOWN. So if anything that bias would be in your favor. Claiming it diverges tremendously from official data doesn't make sense either as we realistically don't get much data from the devs. It's always very limited in scope and at best once a year if that.
"The stats show that even a solidly good 4 man loses more than they win.
Your refusal to accept that doesn't make the game survivor sided, it
makes you unwilling to accept anything that doesn't fit in line with
your personal opinion. "
I never said I didn't accept that, which shows you aren't really understanding what I'm saying. You're reading what you want to see rather than what's actually being said to fit in line with your personal opinions. I never stated nor implied a good 4 man wins more than they lose. All I mentioned was how the games balanced. Losing more than they win also doesn't mean we're at kill metric for the devs balance goal. The irony that you haven't shown anything to support survivors being the weaker role. If you have some data without obvious holes I'm more than willing to look it over as well. What you accuse me of you are guilty of yourself. You currently have nothing to support your claims.
Everyone uses matchmaking lol. Like literally. Are we adding custom games into this or something? Yeah I pull way back when I see it's heavily skewed as well. Not all of us care about seeing four skulls on the results page I agree. I know that's that light you'd like to be painting me in, but that's not the case.
We've already seen stats that the majority of games are not solo queue, so lets nip that right here at the beginning. My argument is not that slugging is skillful because I think I'm skillful. That's what you're reading, not what was actually typed. Do you think survivors regularly give props in end game chat to killers regardless of if they play nice? What a lovely world that would be lol. I play lots of other killers normally, that is not what happens. Also, whether someone gets mad about slugging is irrelevant. What if someone is angry at me just because they don't like the killer I picked? Is that my fault too? Or is that now a them problem? IE the point is their anger has to actually be rational anger. We can't cater to irrational nature. It also does not only work because they aren't ready for it. This is just trying to paint it in a light that supports your opinion you already want to believe that it's "exploiting people" when it's not. Slugging is normal game play, that's why there's quite literally perks for it. It works regardless, it does not require unexpected game play.
Lots of people think lots of things are infuriating every day because of a multitude of reasons, that doesn't imply those things are objectively infuriating. Like I think the true real reason people hate slugging is because it's strong and it hits peoples egos. Someones ego is not the other persons problem, especially with what we're talking about, which is doing it strategically and not with toxic intentions.
This discussion about skill feels like it misses the point a bit, no?
It doesn't matter if it's skillful or not.
The point is that it works, it will win you games, and it is god-awful to play against. Just one match against this playstyle makes me want to turn off the game.
I am also not alone in feeling this way, in fact it's nearly unanimously agreed that it's awful to play against. Even killers who do it know it's terrible to play against, they just feel "forced" to do it because they think hooking survivors is an active detriment.
Now, I personally think they're being a little dramatic about that. I also think they're wrong that it's just objectively better than hooking. Killers who can do it most effectively are already high tier, anyway. But nobody can tell them they can't do it if they want to, they're not breaking any rules.
This is a developer problem. They need to both make this playstyle less effective (preferably by nerfing Coulrophobia so that it doesn't affect people who are downed) while also buffing the perks get for hooking survivors to make it more enticing. Buffing Pop was a good start. I wouldn't mind seeing bit more regression on Pain Res, for example.
I literally had to go back a single month to find this, but thank you for being generous lol. And the month before that
But nope no proof at all, lol. Did you even look before typing that out? For all we know every single match in the data set could be a custom match or totally spoofed. You are putting far too much trust in a random website that can be easily manipulated. 18,000 matches? It would be easy for someone to create 1000 accounts and upload twice that many matches and make the site say whatever they wanted.
The selection bias is towards players who are more engaged but that isn't representative of skill, its also primarily english speaking, and then there is needing to know the site even exists in the first place. Poor sampling all around. Every time we have gotten data recently I have compared to nightlight just out of curiosity and they are not even close, official kill rates are always significantly higher.
You continue to ignore the data that shows killers win at least 51% of match overall, again at a minimum. If that doesn't show survivors as the weaker role I frankly don't know what does. The only piece of data you are willing to engage with is the 48% escape rate for high mmr four mans. That isn't killers struggling and it doesn't make the game survivor sided. Yet you continue to insist it does, that is you not accepting real data all while you don't present any data I can engage with, just statements with no evidence attached.
I would love more data from the devs and if they ever present data that killers are struggling I will absolutely consider it. Until then the data we have shows that killers are doing absolutely fine and wanting to change them to showing hook states when those do not actually correlate to how often killers win matches is just silly. How you got the kills doesn't matter when a win is based on kills and when it doesn't matter how you got that kill.
Oh wow man 1 match and the other had 2! That totally changes nothing lol. Why in the world would we believe someone would create 1000 accounts to skew data? There's nothing to support this. It's just silly. I don't put complete trust in Nightlight but it's the best we have to go by for consistent data and 18k is a good sample size.
Engaging doesn't equal skill correct, but there is strong correlation with playing more and getting more skilled. I'm not trying to say this is skewing the kill rates lower than reality but I am saying that if they were going to be skewed any direction it would be much more likely to skew them in your favor.
I'm not ignoring any data. 51% shows the killers are not balanced where the devs want them, they are underperforming. I've engaged with all data presented idk why you're acting otherwise. This is also again mixing the two different balances I presented before. There's a difference between if the game is balanced in most matches and if it's objectively balanced. You're also referencing data on most/average matches and I already stated that in most matches it's going to be killer sided from players being bad. That's a different statement though from objective balance when it's actually good vs good. The irony of presenting data and then saying I'm not presenting data when the data your presenting supports my claims lol.
The data you just presented yourself does not support what you are saying. You're also trying to defend a point we agree on already. Like I said before, I already agree that in most/average matches it's killer sided since most players are bad. I'm only stating the game is objectively survivor sided, IE good vs good.
If you think skilled player can slways two hook each survivor and win then you are lost in wonder land.
The game is not set in same balance, some characters have way more limits then others (low tier killers vs high tier killers, ec.), map does not favor everyone same like some killers are totaly weakened by some maps lime bubba by larrys etc. so theres another part cutting this idea of your phraze about skill. Then theres mmr where can simular players play togeather but 4k hours blight has totaly different chance on winning against 16k hours total survivor team then 4k wraith or xeno thats just big fat fact not every killer is designed to be able to two hook each survivor and still be able to win especialy against meta builds like shoulder,ds,dh,plot twist/unbrakable that make survivor very hard to get even when killers tunnels (uses most efficient way to win) or can be used agressively against killer who plays normaly and totaly change the outcome of the game.
So even when you put people with very simular hours and experience against each other there are still factors like killer,map,perks,addons that make certain limits so its not possible especialy somewhat consistently like in that perfect scenario wraith wont get 5 out of 10 games all survivors two hooked because there are certain limits but blight can.
Its not a good sample you just want it to be. That one or two is enough to prove that the data set is invalid. People have done sillier things for smaller reasons, I am not saying that someone is doing so now I am saying it would be trivially easy for someone to do if they wanted to
Show me the study that proved a correlation between engagement and skill. There are plenty of very engaged players that suck, killers just can't accept their skill issues because the game doesn't make them.
That is a 51% WIN RATE minimum, not a kill rate, that is not under performing. You are actively not reading and just saying the data supports you. You are hopelessly biased.
if 4 man escape rates are 48% at high mmr then killer is heavily underperforming as kill rate should be about 60% and im terrible at math so may misunderstand this but that only 1-2 people should be escaping per match. 4 man escapes should not be happening almost 50% of the time so in that case that would indicate a survivor advantage.
Four man high mmr, a tiny fraction of matches played, not four man in general and obviously not solo queue. You are also assuming that a 50% kill rate would mean that a 2k is the most common outcome when it is likely the least common outcome. In my personal killer matches the most common outcome is a 3k (I don't slug for 4k), followed by 4k, then 0k, 1k, and finally 2k. I would love real stats on this from BHVR but I don't think they have ever provided them.
a 50% kill rate would mean that on average 2 people escape per match. you obviosuly can swing up or down per match. but if in a MMR bracket whether high or low if 4 man escapes are happening 48% of the time (essentially 50%) then survivors are outperforming killer in that bracket and killer is underperforming as the target kill rate should be around 60 so only 4 out of 10 survivors on average should be escaping.
That is statistically a good sample size, not opinion wise. It is not enough to say that the data set is invalid, you just want it to be. There's more of a likelyhood of bhvr just fudging the stats they give us than the idea that someone's gonna upload a thousand fake matches to skew the data.
No one's arguing that there aren't players that play a lot and are still bad. That doesn't disprove the point. Are you really arguing that on average players do not get better at doing something from doing it more? Like really? Is this where I just say the opposite of you and say survivors just can't accept their skill issues because the game doesn't make them? These statements are pointless.
I literally have more hours on survivor than killer, that isn't biased. You just don't agree with my opinion and calling someone biased is a good way to try and invalidate their opinion. 51% win rate(not kill rate) is still not the devs goal for balance.
You're not exactly selling compassion here. How does one pull back with a three digit streak? I can't go ten matches without feeling obligated to give someone hatch or let two or three people leave because of circumstances outside of their control. Different players are, in fact, different, and should be viewed as individuals. If someone throws because they dont like the killer, I kill them, but that means someone else gets to leave because it was unfair from the get-go.
So if I'm playing solo and i match with a duo am i somehow not solo anymore? You're also assuming everyone in a party is on comms, and that the comms are being put to practical use. Some people are just chatting with friends because they play games to have fun. Strange, but true.
The ego in play is here is the killers, who thinks it's acceptable to make you lay there and wait for them to win and deny you any opportunity to really play, because they care so much about the results of a video game.
This particular narrative is going around amongst high KR, high hour killer mains as though they're reading it from a script they all rehearsed in a Discord server together. They don't feel forced, these perks have been in the game an other killer players manage, they just know its an easy way to beat most people.
I have evidence and sampling bias to show why it isn't a good data set, you don't have any arguments against that. Claiming that the official data set is more likely being manipulated, with no evidence, than the public voluntary website being manipulated just proves how much you are floundering.
I think there are plenty of players of this game on both sides that play a ton without improving, I have played against players with 10,000 hours that got utterly stomped on. The game actively makes survivors accept their skill issue, they die and lose. I have played plenty of matches as killer where I played terribly and still won, no reason for players that this happens to regularly to accept their skill issues, they come here and scream survivor sided when they lose a single match.
The devs have never stated a balance desire for win rate, only kill rate and a 51% win rate makes a 60% kill rate trivially easy to accomplish.
No bleed out has to stay. People are slugging because of the state of the game being, hooks simply arent worth it on a lot of killers. The issue is the GAME STATE not the players. So instead of nerfing slugging… how about we add incentives to hooking without the downsides they provided in the first batch of anti-everything ptb (9.1.0).
The survivors are high MMR, that doesn't mean every killer they go against is as well. It's also specifically 4mans. Matchmaking isn't even, and good payers should preform better than average ones. Hell, my 30-day ER is almost always above that 48%, even playing solo in who knows what bracket, but my KR is also above the target 60%, and I'm very average at both roles. I don’t know too many people with numbers below the targets unless they meme around or let people go.
when you say 4man are you referencing 4 man swfs? i had interpreted as just all 4 survivors escaping from your message
So you seriously think incentivising hooking more will stop these playstyles?
You're completely wrong if you think that, straight up.
Most people do not play like this.
Yeah, its always funny. Either people who say this are either really naive or they know exactly that to make hooking better than slugging, the Devs would need to buff hooking to such an amount that Killers will have very easy games. Same with tunneling vs. going for different Survivors. And I am very sure that people who claim that the Devs should buff hooking massively know exactly what they are asking for.
And even if hooking is only buffed, as long as slugging stays so strong, Killers will not suddenly start hooking. It has been proven time and time again that just giving incentives alone is not enough.
I'm sorry but the various "comp" Blights I see doing this strat to try and speedrun their winstreaks aren't suddenly gonna start hooking people because they get a small buff from it
Not happening, ever.
Incentivizing hooking will work for the people that would prefer to hook but simply dont want to since hooking is just the wrong choice in a lot of matches. People slug because understandably they want to win the game which shouldn't be a concept shunned as much as it is in the DBD community. And as it stands slugging is legit the best chance you have of winning for how little survivors have to work nowadays especially as weaker killers.
You realise this thread is about Killers who are using a purely 'only slug' strat, yeah?
As in, never hooking ever and slugging until all 4 survivors are down.
Slugging when necessary is only complained about by people who don't understand it. People's complaints about 4 man slug playstyles however have validity.
Yes, and there's no issue with that. Tell me what's wrong on the players part for wanting to use only slugging as a win condition.
It creates matches where even if the Killer can't actually achieve their 'win condition' (Everyone down), they still end up winning anyway because of the bleedout timer or survivors abandoning due to how mind numbingly boring it is
That's why I made the post saying it should be removed, because if people want this to be a valid strategy then they should only win when they actually get their win condition.
The win condition by slugging is literally bleeding out, not by getting a 4-man slug I don't know where you got that info from. 4-man slugs just speed up the process tremendously. Also can you please tell me what you can do on hook that you can't do while slugged. The ONLY difference is being in the match 100 seconds longer if you do end up bleeding out assuming you went through 2 full hook stages.
But until hooks are actually worth it on low-mid tiers slugging will always remain as the best choice to win. You get more pressure on average and don't have to deal with unhook perks that could be used offensively. People dont just slug for the hell of it there's reasons to it.
First of all, I never said people were "doing it for the hell of it" so not sure where you got that from lol.
Next up the comparison between being on a hook and being slugged:
Again you say "make hooks worth it" but even if they did, people would still do this. You and I both know that.
A 4man SWF. The stat being referenced is that high MMR 4man SWFs have a 48% average ER.
My issue with this kind of thinking is that we’ve never seen this happen in the game before. Back when Gen regression was at its strongest, people still slugged and tunneled. People still use full Gen slow down and slug and tunnel on nurse or blight. In the 1st iteration of 2v8, they didn’t have flashlights. They also didn’t have pallet saves possible, because the killer would just step on the survivor and they would teleport to a hook. There was no reason to slug, but full 8 slugging and bleed outs happened and they happened enough that they had to add some kind of anti-slug and flashlights and pallet saves to prevent it from happening again.
So I really can’t agree with the idea that if hooking gave you more rewards by even some kind of base-kit slow down, people would absolutely still tunnel and slug because history will repeat itself.
So what is the killer doing if they're proxying a slug? Why is the slug not crawling away to a spot wheres its harder to pressure said objective? If people are spread out across the map this is quite easily one of the easiest pick ups. I've even up surges in Plot Twist and Unbreakable. Slugging IS counterable but since you know it isn't the norm like hooking has been for years people aren't prone to know how to counter it. Like quite literally if you're being chased take the killer as far away from the slug as possible or count their mobility tools like Unknowns teleport cooldown. Also if a killer is proxying a slug… just do gens? Literally the same logic as proxy'ing a hook. I just feel like you want to kill a strategy because 4-5 killers can really capitalize off it but the rest of the roster then just has to suffer.
And "Most people do not go into 4 man slug matches ready to deal with it." is not even a point. It's like complaining about getting ready for one team comp in a game, they don't run said team comp and now suddenly you're way weaker. That's not inherently a bad thing for the game.
People still slugged and tunneled because survivor stuff was also way stronger back then. Back at peak regression before 6.1.0 with ruin undying and 25% pop was easily dealt with if everyone ran dead hard which was easily the strongest exhaustion at the time. Also I never said anything about tunneling or slugging in the post you responded to I said people would hook more and it ends at that.
Also as for the 2v8 slugs. It's because 2v8 is just notoriously survivor sided unless you run specific killer combos.
I don't want to kill the strategy though, even though admittedly - I don't like it.
I just think bleedouts should be removed IF this is going to be considered a valid win condition. I don't agree that bleeding survivors out is the win condition. That's just my perspective on it
You don't intend to kill the strategy but the way you go about it will. Like I'll agree it sucks that it's the way it is right now but straight up removing bleed outs only just makes it viable for the strongest killers in the roster while the others can't do anything outside of opportunity costs.
Then recomend spreading the word to stop this strategy then because its growing and if it becomes a big enough problem the devs are gonna have to solve it…and i think we all dont want to know what kinda mess that will be.