So... when is the anti-tunnel and anti-slug measures BHVR promised is coming in...?
Getting pretty exhausting having to deal with certain killers tunneling or slugging, and I'm finding them WAY too often.
I get that it's a supposed 'strat', but at the end of the day it gets tiring with having to deal with it constantly.
It's to the point that I'd rather wait for 2v8 to come out and play that 24/7. That was the only mode enjoyable for both sides imo.
Comments
No, it's not.
Not when it's a decision the killer can make in the lobby. And that's the tunneling that people complain about.
This isn't "I got lucky and found you later", this is "I'm conditioned to go immediately back to hook when the notification tells me to and chase the person to death".
It is not a mistake to be found first. Period.
And you can't claim that it's a "weak link" because you have only chased the first person you found. It's mainly RNG at the start of the match who that is. Even if the killer chooses that person in the lobby.
And you recognize this:
Yes, if you have a survivor that can maybe survive long enough, which involves a host of factors including RNG because of maps, killer kits, matchmaking, and teammates. And you can drop chase, but here's the thing...
All roads lead to tunneling being the "correct" decision:
If the first chase is short, "oh good, I can get this survivor out of the game easily. I'm going to tunnel".
If the first chase wasn't short: "in too invested in this survivor and need a comeback. I'm going to tunnel".
And it stops being a strategy if there's no chance the player is going to change tactics. If everything leads to tunneling, and for many it does, then there's nothing that the other team can do to change that.
"Strategy" as a concept heavily implies that you can change that strategy based on outside factors. In DbD that might be map choice, or mainly, how your opponent plays.
And for survivors this does happen: you can plan to gen rush, but if the killer chases you, you have to switch to evading. For killers who tunnel excessively, they can choose to tunnel every single match and survivors have nothing they can do to change that.
And that is the problem. One person doesn't get a chance to play the will rounded survivor experience that should include things like gen repair, rescue, healing/recovery, as well as killer interactions like chase.
And that's because there's no limit to tunneling. No restriction, no downside. And for a lot of people, the only result is boosting their MMR leading to MMR and other balance complaints, simply because they're in over their head.
Those limits are what people are asking for. Those limits are absolutely necessary for game health at this point.
lol
Earlier, you claimed it's just the logical conclusion from the way the game's built, not the product of 'mistakes'.
Couldn't said it better myself.
Those limits needs to be a thing, because once those are in place, it would be much easier to properly balance the game around that.
Hypothetically, if you took out tunneling completely, and then carefully monitored the escape rates that followed this change, I am sure there could be changes to survivors, to push the escape rates closer to the targetted 40%. Bear in mind that Japanese gameplay is much more gentleman-like, where tunneling is so to say non-existent.
As we saw in the latest summary from the Japanese community, the global average escape rates were sitting between 37-40% depending on party size, which is lower than it should be. Pretty sure the release of broken killers, and the over-abundance of tunneling isn't helping the average survivor.
And this is exactly why there has to be a change for the better.
I think you are correct on handholding and mistakes.
Handholding: I remember when I first started playing the game how surprised I was by all the info the killer got. Gens, hooks, doors, while the survivor didn't get any of it.
And the killer should get all that info. BHVR could design the game with the expectation that killers will memorize hook locations during the match. They could nerf all aspects of survivors to balance it out as well.
Except, it wouldn't be a very fun game. The question shouldn't be about handholding, because there are all sorts of examples on things the game makes easier than it has to, but whether the result leads to a better game.
Mistakes: Making a mistake should harm the side that makes it, but there has to be a sense of having an appropriate level of penalty per mistake.
An example would be something like Huntress missing a Hatchet. A mistake, absolutely that should increase the survivors chance of winning. Should she then be stunned for 20 seconds? No, that would be very silly. Just because something is a mistake doesn't mean a side deserves to lose a match for it.
And that's why I liked a lot of concepts if not necessarily the full execution of the PTB - losing a survivor early would still be punishing survivor mistakes, but not completely game deciding.
As I said above and I've said many times, I will never be convinced that the game should be balanced around how its upper 5% perform and everyone else should just accept that.The funny thing is that its not even 5%. We're talking like a fraction of 1% who are playing under a totally different rules structure that gives benefits to both the survivors and the killers that don't exist in the public version.
This doesn't contradict each other. You are consciously deciding capitalizing mistakes, because you see them.
If a tunnel occurs, control of the situation is in the hands of both the killer and the survivor. If they make a mistake, like they'll be left healing under the hook, go into the dead zone, teammates will react poorly, then the tunnel will be that very evil and uncounterable tactic. But it's survivor mistake to provide easy tunneling.
Without such mistakes, the survivor becomes less vulnerable, and the killer wastes more time. This isn't a question of RGN. It's a question of whether you can accept the fact that if this happens, you need to play around this. And not hope for randomness or that this situation won't happen at all. The ease of tunneling isn't determined solely by the killer in the match. Survivor also defines how easy it's gonna be, or would it happen even.
What about answering on post where you complained people can’t adapt to anti-tunnel at first instead of Interrupting into a dialogue with another person? Well, that's it, first of all.
You are deliberately playing with words.
Survivors are 4 people in a match.
If the killer tunnelling excessively, sicking to the same strategy doesn't stop it from being a strategy.
But there's no point in lying about “ have nothing they can do to change that”.
I play alone, and I do things myself. I've had countless games where I helped my teammates enough that the killers gave up and switched to me.Or when tunneling happening so late, killer lost the game. I've had countless games where, on the last gen, the killer was forced to give up tunneling and started trying to pressure map.
For this, If you don't give the killer the opportunity to tunnel for free at the beginning of the game and present the killer with a fait accomplish. Killer either proxy camp and tunnel, so survivors have free gens for killer to pressure less, or they have to distract themselves from the hook, which will buy more time for the survivors for safer rescue. They can't prevent tunneling because it's someone else's strategy. Like out playing strategy is not canceling it, it lowering their effectiveness. The killer also can't prevent gen rush as a concept: they can only react to it. Killer can’t chase 4 people simultaneously to prevent gen progress, it’s just what you want to present as the truth, because, like the developers, you continue to see the survivors in a pure vacuum and not as a group that is initially superior in numbers.
If rebuilding to your style of words.
Killer can plan to tunnel, but if gen efficiency or chases timer overcomes it, killer have to switch to map pressure. If they won't do it, they will lose (until other side would do some mistakes). It's as same as if survivor stubbornly sticks to the generator—he can repair it before dying, but any real progress will lead to defeat, if it was unnecessary trade of life. Same with killers. You might get one kill, but then, if the survivors played carefully and correctly, your chances of winning are minimal. The tunnel is not capable of pausing the game or the other side's progress, so saying that the survivors are unable to do anything is either your own unwillingness to adapt which you like to blame everyone for, or a deliberate lie.
The hook states mention isn't about you specifically, it's a general example. My point is that a very handoldy buff quietly comes to killler--one that was clearly meant to be part of the anti-tunnel--and the killers just rub their greedy hands together. There was even a thread where people brushed it off like it was nothing, some even saying it helps them two-hook without killing (or thinking) which I think is mostly bs. It's yet another killer info advantage with survivors getting nothing similar. In a year, the idea that it wasn't there this whole time will be shocking to people, just like basekit BT. Just like anything they add in. It'd be the same for basekit DS or Kindred or self-recovery. For all the moaning we all do, anything they push through will likely be accepted with time but will immedialty be cried about as handholdy. As for adapting, how many posts do we currently have where killers are weeping about pallets? Yet the calls for adaptation are rather quiet. Adapting only seems to be expected of survivors.
But what is and isn't handholdy? Iri add-ons? Endurance and exhaustion perks? Exposed and aura perks? Bloodlust? The whole damn game is handholdy. I can't tell you how often I've won killer matches because of perks, and I'm not running meta. Survivor, not so much. That's more small, immediate advantages, at least for me.
It actually seems like the consensus amongst most people is that the game needs a whole big overhaul, particularly in regards to individual killers, but this is extremely difficult and I think people are willing to settle for anything since they probably won't get that.
I don't think these people are a good reflection of anything though. Even if the skill is even, they're too high-performing. If BHVR wants this data, they need to host lab rat matches with average-performing survivors that arent on comms and killers who rely on tunneling and give them a set of rules to try out. That would be a more logical data pool for the masses. The idea is to find out what happens amongst normal players with restrictions in place. The ptb did a bad job at that.
Why using this arguement in our convo anyway? Do I support this? No. What’s it makes with my words or how it gives more weight to anti tunnel proposal? It’s just even more support my position about tag war and that people fight over it rather than actual balancing, and that it should stop.
To shut down this high performing they playing with heavy restrictions that you would never see in ordinary match. It’s not about what BHVR looking at. It’s about should balance look like this. It’s about what it shows. It shows you can’t play without tunnel on high level. In their matches you actually can see how balancing work.
So looking from your own perspective. Should highly difficult mechanics killers be removed only because they aren’t for casuals? Can you do this? Can you delete nurse? Can you delete SFW in this game? Spread up, gen efficiency? Everything that usualy defines highly effective play? This game stopped being party game as soon as Nurse arrived and first comp appeared . Do you like it or not, it’s a fact. What makes tunneling so special that “you shouldn’t orient on what high play needs/use”, but as soon as something else that benefiting survivors on high play you don’t ask for it to be removed at the same time? Like sfw… oh yeah, maybe because you are playing sfw yourself. Just don’t use its actual advantage most of the time. But why people have to handicap themselves as much as you do? Just because? Why me not handicapping other players on this forum demanding playing without meta or on simple killers?
People should stop complaining on high perforimg play. It always be people simply better in this game and do you like it or not, they know this game better than you. It’s fine to complain on gap between players and asking to make it less evident. It’s not fine doing it through enforcing handicapping and constant shaming . You can adjust initial mechanics only, but touching way of play - it’s not a nice way and pure tribalism and personal hate. And that thing that u put some imaginitive numbers of 5% of survivors being on top cap just shows how you want to highlight that your opinion suddenly should matter more just because in advance.
It’s not sweats ruined your matches. It’s either you can’t adapt to them and demanding them to change instead, either matchmaking being bad, if you like this “adaptation” arguement so much. Or two stuff at the same time. How antitunnel deal with it? Yet again… Doesn’t . Just additional figure to this equation.
Handholding is when you expecting game dealing with sweats through mechanics by artificially restricting them and not adjusting your tools. It’s by always relying on items and strong tiers . Handholding is playing Ghoul and expecting hight rates just because he is simple and strong , if you want more precise example.
Handholding is wanting/choosing something and expecting it’ll deal with what you want. Making tunneling unattractive or less effective not through the play, but just… because. Handholding is expecting try hards to get easy on you just because you play game differently and blaming them in the way how they play, expecting game deal with your frustration by restricting other side or even punishing.
And again. Do anti tunnel deal with stuff that considered op/handholding? S tiers? Flaws in balances? Do anti tunnel dealing with anything beside tunneling being frustrating? It’s like asking for Ghoul to stay as it is because it’s harder to play on Nurse and Blight for you, but you want something close to their effectiveness. Yes, it’s less frustrating to deal with necessity of improving in micro/macro, to outplay opponents . You don’t need to deal with busted items or serious sfws that much as others, yet mechanically it stays as simple as some Ghostface or Wraith. Does it make Ghoul less braindead or about balancing? No. It’s initial mechanic.
This thread already showed that many players expecting this from killers when themselves barely adapting. To what additional thing survivors had to adapt? Where I messaged here: you have to adapt to Ghoul concept, ha ha? You have to adapt to Haddonfield, ha ha ? No, I didn’t say you have to adapt to x thing that is mechanic in this game. Because such stuff is actually discussable. Again, why you ignoring my statement both sides have to adapt and as example push initial game mechanic when I was discussing a way how people play in the context?
Do you really want to argue with pallet density adaptation? Why again, we compare initial system with way how people play? Why we compare pallet density and tunneling? Because they both bring benefits? But why ignoring their difference? One thing was added through mechanics in game. Other thing is how people play. Maybe it works in your reality where try hards is your biggest issue only because of the way how they play, but I make difference between something like pallets being here by default and tunneling becoming a decision committing to it or not…
Like…. That’s the core principle of handholding issue… when you expect adaptaion happening through mechanics. It’s a big difference giving base kit Kindred and base kit DS. First thing gives opportunity to utilise resources- when and who and how rescuing. It doesn’t adapt survivors with concept of rescuing through handholding. It provides them opportunity to manage time. They can fail with it through wrong decisions. Second thing just providing additional resource for free. You can’t fail with using base kit DS through wrong decisions. It’s always be right use despite you even understanding why it’s here and how it works.
Edit: Honestly, I'm tired of repeating the same things. It literally all comes down to one argument. The anti-tunnel is still just a desire for us versus them, and it doesn't solve the problem beyond a tug-of-war. If you think otherwise, so be it. If it suits you, you're absolutely right. I don't have the resources to repeat the same things to the local forum residents, who seem to live in a bubble of perpetual tribalism but try to deny it and present their opinions as the voice of the community and cold, hard facts. Whenever the next fact always boils down to "But x side y thing and this is unfair, so I need z unfair thing to push unfair advantage to my side." It's probably cool to demand other players play the same way you do, just because. Not because you actually play better/use effective play/ trying. Just… just play like me… just because… blah blah, you are try hard and spoiled my casual mood, how dare you not treating game as same as me... I don't need this attitude or treatment… honestly. If I was casually playing and some sweat without personal life went to my match, I would rather blame matchmaking instead of going and crying on forum how evil this people are and that some BHVR police should put them in jail and reinforce new law… Stop expecting win against player who doesn’t handicap themselves by chill behaviour made my life ten times easier when I started to play online games.
So again: if you wish to hear this words, you are 100 times right. I would prefer to play game itself or focus on game rather than player behaviour discussion, because all this thread gave me realisation it never worthy my time. Not my interest
Hey i get what your trying to say with this.
But I have two problems with this idea.
The likelihood of BHVR devs balancing per killer is low. I mean look at one of the ones they nerfed into oblivion, Skull merchant.
While I agree its doable, its just super unlikely it will happen. And any trust the devs currently have is at rock bottom.
And my second problem with this is... its just gonna shift the unfairness and upset feelings from survivor to killers, which Isn't fixing the problem, its just shifting the problem.
You're either manipulating what I'm saying or you're not understanding it fully. I don't have all these strong emotions and aggravations about things that you keep saying I do. I don't take this or any game seriously enough to. I don't care about comp players. I don't care about Nurse. I just want the game to revolve around the majority players' gameplay, which is probably the mid two tiers of MMR. Am I one of them? Probably, yeah, along with what is likely the vast majority of players. But if it's a pointless discussion than so be it. That is that.
Technically, it would shift first, but once the initial shift has happened, it would be easier to see where the problems are.
Though first off, I would have suggested rolling back on some decisions regarding the pallet update, as it certainly didn't help the majority of the killer roster. Like what has been the case with some of the realms, and more specifically MacMillan, Crotus Prenn, Autohaven and the Swamp.
After that, there should be a definite focus on tunneling.
Because gameplay evolve around casual players Ghoul and Krasue appeared. No, don’t even ask me to support such vision of the game. I would never appreciate it because it’s always people asking “balance around lower tiers” on one side only.
If it didn’t touch you, you never would defend such position. Many of your posts that I've seen literally had the direct speech of "try hards cringe," "sweats ruined event," "sweats spoiled that”. Context shows that you actually care A LOT about competitive people. Because you often try to oppose yourself to them. Maybe you simply don't realize how months of reading some of your posts on this forum changed the whole context about perceiving your claims for me.
Hating going against some character just because of the way how people play doesn’t correlate with your words that it’s not bothering you. I doubt you can convince me otherwise simply by saying "no it isn't". I’m pretty sure you even can’t realise how this look from perspective of person less chill than you.
Stop expecting win or fun against player who doesn’t handicap themselves by chill behaviour is actually showing that other way of play doesn’t bother person. They will dominate, it doesn’t provide you an excuse to ask for free tools.
If person doesn’t match my vibe, I don’t go to forum to tell about that and how they spoil x thing by their attitude. I thought “I don’t care” usually work like this.
Is this supposed to be a gotcha? Do you think I'm not aware that you can see what I say? And do you think these little quips define my views? It's not a real discussion, it's just bs. I told you privately and I'll say it again for the 5 people reading this: I'm rarely serious. My tone is sarcastic, hyperbolic, and exaggerated. I don't take a single thing on the internet seriously. Did you catch the gore post awhile back? I made snarky remarks about that too and it was dead people pictures. Nothing is serious to me (but in the darkest most nihilistic way possible) and you're too literal and stoic to catch it. Believe me or don't. You can dislike me and think I'm a hypocrite or crybaby whatever. I don't have any problem with you. But we're different in probably a lot more ways than just our views on gaming and we're not likely to connect, and that's fine.
Sorry, but again — it’s a huge difference between saying you don’t really care, and from day to day post stuff with same sentiment about some people doing x game. Claiming you are unserious and then behaving opposite way have differences.
It was SUCH unnecessary detail about your personality that simply doesn’t make your words look better if not even worse.
If in your reality person who really “don’t care” writes me such long posts in this thread just to try to explain his position, and then continues to write the same type of stuff where he hates that some part of people ruined game for so long period of time, I barely would believe it in this. Saying you're not serious when you make comments like this doesn't paint your position in a good light, it only makes it ugly idk…
I bet you would speak completely different if some person on this forum would mirror your behaviour and targetting casual players. Especially when you make it under orher people posts making it either off topic (just to unnecessary pushing your itch in comment), or when making it under posts where OP is usually pretty serious, because well, people going on forums for expressing concerns and feeling about sth. And here you are “unserious” man calling someone cringe and buzzkillers.
I don't understand why your comments stop portraying you as someone who can't stand a certain group of players just because you're now trying to cover it up with your unserious attitude. It's like everything has gotten a hundred times worse to me if you're so flippant about the game and still manage to talk about certain people like that just because :/ It either real oblivious happening here, or “I don’t care” become an argument to step back just to pretend words you are writing not showing you in a way that doesn’t benefit to the discussion for your side.
Ok.
Can't really argue that difference when you, yourself, argued that the way people play is the immediate product of mechanics in game.
So OP….. there are a few things to consider
So at the end of the day it's more of if they push it then it'll end being broken but giving them time will cause more posts like this
Where?
They need to take away the way killers see survivor hook states. It would be a good first step because it had the opposite result of what was intended. It just made tunneling worse.
I didn’t say here tunneling is a mechanic. I just said that assymetrical attract people to playin specific way. We don’t have pro tunnel mechanics
It's literally my argument here. Just stop playing for words and finally learn to look at context.
A mechanic is a specific rule or system of interaction
Tunneling is a format of play players choose
If tunnelling was a mechanic in this game, it worked like perks or what we’ve seen in ptb.
If you still struggling to understand my point because loves to imply on my reading and writing comprehension, because Eglish is’t my native language, here some basics of GD that you struggling to understand so much. Because it's soulless machine explanation, you barely can complain on some wrong writing or comprehension
Read other my messages 10 times if you struggling to understand context.
Edit: assymetry is not a mechanic. It's a format. PvP isn't’ mechanic, it’s a genre. Tunneling is people behaviour, not mechanic. Considering that all of this exist and creating mechanics around it what I’m focusing on. Anti tunneling isn’t building gameplay around it, it’s ignoring why it happens and solely focusing on removing it from the game. Yet removing people’s behaviour that was caused by core format of game is just playing along with tribalism and admitting one side “frustration” prevalence. Removing a player-driven strategy that compensates for structural asymmetry. Keep it in mind
I didn't say you said tunnelling is a mechanic, I said you argued that it's a direct product of mechanics.
That's debatable. It can reasonably be argued that if the entire game is set up to funnel players into tunnelling, as you claim, then one can argue that these mechanics that do so are 'pro tunnel mechanics'.
No, but it's comprised of mechanics. Mechanics that you claim directly funnel people into tunnelling.
I agree. But that's also why I don't think you can argue that anti-tunnel can never be balanced, since correcting behaviour can be done in ways that don't affect balance. I'm pretty sure we've seen this with old BBQ & Chili and WGLF, both of which rewarded substantial BP bonuses based on certain actions taken. Stripping them of the BP bonus did not affect balance, but it did affect behaviour.
How is it ignoring 'why it happens'?
If the mechanics that comprise the asymmetrical nature of DBD are the reason tunnelling happens, then surely, adjusting those mechanisms is addressing the reason why it happens?
No. Read 11th time again. Assymetry of the genre encourages tunneling as meta. And assymetry is not a mechanic. It’s not supported by mechanic. It’s not compromised by mechanics either, it’s compromised by format. You don’t even understand what actually word mechanic means, basically. Because at first tried to relate my speech of assymetry with mechanic.
Somehow that format of the game causing specific behaviour is bad for you, yet slapping additional mechanic without fixing the asymmetrical pressure that creates the incentive is something you find reasonable.
At that point, you’re not arguing about the truth of the system, just the scope of intervention. You are just playing with words again. Think what suits you, but I wouldn’t even count such words worthy to discuss anymore.
It's not supported or comprised of mechanics?
What do you think gens are? Why do you think gen timers are the way they are? Why do you think loops are the way they are? The entire game is built around that core concept with all of the mechanisms constructed from that foundation.
Having four players on the field doesn't create pressure by the mere fact that there's four. It's that the four are interacting with mechanics that push them towards their win condition that does.
If you're in a game where you know, for an absolute fact, that three of the four survivors aren't doing anything, are you going to feel 'pressure' while you're chasing the fourth, simply by the fact that you're outnumbered?
Firstly, this 'asymmetrical pressure' and its significance are a presupposition on your part.
Secondly, and far more importantly: This PTB in particular actually did address the asymmetrical pressure. That's what the hooksplitting incentives were about. And I never once argued that they should be struck from the PTB or reduced in any way.
This topic is wild.
I can't believe it's still going.
We could keep it going you know
WhaWhat i want is a hard fix. Not a shift then fix, because if they shift it, it will take longer to fix the problem.
"Why does it feel like C or Y killer needs to do this"
Should be answered just as much, and with equal appeal to
"Why do survivors feel they have to use x or y perk"
WWe Need both sides to enjoy the game. And both sides should have equal say. But we got entitled people on both sides ruining discussion
Good questions.
And you are right in what you said in the end. Both sides needs equal say, so that we can get a proper balance, and acceptance of the new state of the game afterwards.
Though, I also have an idea that some of the issues we see in the game boils down to MMR not being a particularly robust system. Just think about it, how many times have you been running into players that are either new (like less than 100 hours), or you run into someone that is way out of your league (10,000+ hours)
Thing is that over the years, we've had quite a few fixes implemented to resolve killer problems, but tunnelling has been an issue for nine years, without any fix in sight.
If you're doing five patches in a row that only cater to killers, and then when there's one patch that caters to survivors, you bring up that treatment should be equal, that's kinda missing the mark.
Never, and now they wanna nerf pallet spawn to please killers, gonna uninstall soon this one sided game
I don't think they will completely revert the pallet changes, but instead focus on rebalancing it on the maps that were severely affected.
Shouldn't this have been the approach they should have used for fog vials too? Instead they just did a sweeping adjustment across the board rather than granular ones? If they touch pallet density, what makes you sure they'd turn their focus on individual maps rather than their M.O. of wide-sweeping changes?
I see they are trying to take organized feedback for each map in their social spaces, but I'm seeing many disagreeing opinions on whether a map needs pallets or not for each realm. This community couldn't even collectively agree that the sky is blue.
This should have been the approach to everything.
Considering how they asked the community about the individual realms when it comes to the pallet changes, I think that would be the best approach moving forward with bigger changes, but like you mentioned that the community itself is highly divided when it comes to balance.
Though for us who can see the bigger picture, we know which maps benefits best from the changes and which ones got too negatively affected.
But knowing the decision making, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the changes got completely reverted, even though it provided a nice break against tunneling, since weaker killers were too negatively affected by the general pallet changes.
I also agree with your statement about the fog vials, and how the changes should have been smaller, instead of giving them the Skull Merchant treatment.
You're missing the point. I'm not on about the coding aspect of it. I'm on about how frustrating tunneling and slugging has gotten so frequent, it's actually depressing and boring. And how BHVR promised the anti-tunneling and anti-slugging improvements, yet they were delayed due to be considered 'too punishing'.
Ikr? I was expecting this thread to die out haha
Is it tho? Asking for equality isn't me sitting here stating "nothing should change" but instead saying that bhvr should if fixing something. Fix it properly, so that both sides are not feeling undermined to a point where we hit as we are now. Flip flopping for each side is a horrible idea. Shifting issues is not fixing the issues just putting a new name on it.
But let me give you an example
Should hard tunneling exist?(choosing to tunnel from the getgo) no it shouldn't.
Should a killer be allowed to down and hook the Dwight who threw him onto a gen after unhooked? Yes, as this is completely different.
These are two separate scenarios but if the original ptb went through they would both be harmed. But one is malicious while the other is situational awareness issues.
Yet at the same time both are considered tunneling no?
Yes extreme example. I know. But at the same time when tunneling has... several definitions.
And yes, I will admit sometimes some survivors can slip away from me. Thats a skill issue. But being found easily is also one.
I'll alwayss be baffled by the response to fog vials. They weren't even an issue. Killers said "annoying" and "spammable" and survivors said "fun" and "toy." Not exactly concerning wording on either side—and they got nuked. They appeared to be considering either a charge increase or an opacity revert and nothing happened.
It will forever be baffling to me as well.
Its mostly a knee-jerk reaction to nuke something at this point.
Many content creators and people said stuff needed to be adjusted, but they pull back or hit the "Oh no" button imho
Ikr? They were pretty fun to use! Ngl, I don't see the point in using fog vials anymore. They got so heavily nerfed. I'd rather refund all of my fog vials just for more bp haha
A newer thread on the topic was just closed.
You're number 1 again!
You know what i am getting exhausted with? Survivors completing the gens and escaping within 5 minutes
Yayyyy :D
It's funny how long we've kept this thread going for.
I was entertained haha
I bet.
Now that we know more about the anti-tunnel and anti-slug changes coming to the next PTB, what do you think of them, as compared to the orginal 9.2.0 proposal.
Personally, I feel satisfied with the upcoming changes. It was irritating to be facing killers who would commonly abuse those 'strategies'.
The anti-tunnel mechanic was a tad harsh, I will admit during the first PTB version of it. As I did see a few survivors abuse it by making the killer purposefully keep going after them so the survivor team will get a permanent buff whilst the killer would get a significant debuff. But the current one is still good.
But overall I like it! How do you feel about it?
@THE_Crazy_Hyena
That patch 9.2.0 wasnt worse in ideas it was just overdone and all it nneded was to took it and shape it so something solid which wouldnt destroy either side would came live but all they did was just scrape the tunneling punishments (which were wrongly done becasue they should aim for hardcore tunneling on 4-5 gens like the one you see in DBD tournaments but instead punished even trapper on 1 gen left who hooked one guy two times in row who just stepped into his trap, not three times in the row thats tunneling that should be punished) and killer uniqe hook bunuses just got scraped and all we get is more blood points (which wont solve or change a thing and should be implemented long time before as some early stages to discourage people from tunneling early on) and bloodlast (which is even worse than haste becasue you will loose it if you use killers power, break pallet or wall or start chase with survivor so its just good for few killers that have power for chase only and no mobility,stealth or trap power like slinger,legion, maybe huntress but many killers wont benefit from it from blight to ghostface which is huge number of killers and many of them arent even mediocre killers but weaker ones that should get stronger benefits in first place).
The endgame part with antitunnel is now normal so no more haste with endurance for 30 seconds that was busted, antislug isnt that overtuned but still hardcore nerf for oni or twins and I didnt saw any news about their changes because of this change to their power to not making playing them worse because their main desing of their powers is just slugging when they can and than nothing more. Antitunnel changes are same exept the part where survivors had no collision which was more problematic than it should be and didnt stop forced bodyblocks just make them still posible and more like using flashbang inside killers model so he cant counter it even if he has wall infront of him etc.
Its just onesided "handholding" patch for survivor side that wont solve anything just forces you to play more dirty and sweaty from the start or pick stronger killers nothing more will change. They could do it better than this and even from their steam they didnt even said whats tunneling from their point of viev they just trying to balance the game from data which was back kere in history and it didnt went well but Im more surprised each time they are doing same mistakes over and over.
Last thing insulting pictures with problematic stuff like tunneling and sluging with merchant and not trapper (its insult not because its joke but depends who makes this joke about who and from history like they like and treated merchant this just makes it insulting). Antifacecamp changes that are just making huge problem on many indoor twofloor maps like rpd or gideon for sure not to mention untill all gens are done killers can face camp for long time. Merchant news which are few buffs for us to stop wanting solid rework or power up for her as compensation for her butchery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHplLL6gfPEThis video gets it all and has points that arent easy to take it lighty.
I'm sorry, but 'Survivors will intentionally get themselves downed so they can unlock the ability to get themselves up' is an absolute joke of a take.