So... when is the anti-tunnel and anti-slug measures BHVR promised is coming in...?
Getting pretty exhausting having to deal with certain killers tunneling or slugging, and I'm finding them WAY too often.
I get that it's a supposed 'strat', but at the end of the day it gets tiring with having to deal with it constantly.
It's to the point that I'd rather wait for 2v8 to come out and play that 24/7. That was the only mode enjoyable for both sides imo.
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If its infinite so the sabbo squads with boon eponentional can abuse this hard or solo with plot twist can force it too and i doubt it will charge and be one time use so it kinda be abused to some point, not to mention the faster pick up rate the more survivors are downed isnt bad idea but it kinda nerfs hard oni and twins becasue thier powers are just slug when you can as many you can especialy oni who has more limited power and twins have no power to get across the map to downed survivor.
Two minutes for the first recovery is a long time and bleedout still exists. There's zero reasons to intentionally leave someone down that long. Survivor perks related to being in the dying state might see changes but you should be able to bring perks that interact with mechanics if you that's the build you want.
And the three people who like to 4man slug as Twins will just have to adjust. You shouldn't be able to slug a whole team without them having a chance at bouncing back.
You are aware it takes awhile for a survivor to recover from being slugged, right?
This video gets it all and has points that arent easy to take it lighty.The video premise has 2 huge flaws: the first is in presuming that BHVR is simply data driven above all else. They take data into consideration, but its far from the only thing they are looking at. Just a couple of quick examples:
1: If it was, not only would the first PTB testing these changes have actually gone through, something would have been done a long time ago.
2: They wouldn't be worried about providing compensation to killers.
3: We wouldn't have perks like OTR being nerfed with explanations for weaponization, there would just be a simple number of the perk overperforming.
4: Nurse would get buffed, but BHVR has explained how they recognize she is the strongest even when the numbers don't show that (literally in there data posts they will talk about numbers being important, but not telling the whole story).
The second issue: BHVR isn't factoring in killers in their feedback and its going to be dominated by survivors outnumbering them is also incorrect: if that was true, we wouldn't have a 60% KR. Survivors have always outnumbered killers and BHVR has always done surveys, if that was true it actually would have happened.
With strong antislug perks like exponencial or unbreakable with we are gonna live togeather + mft combo its fast pick ups and this meter will grow which means if they will hold your hooks for some time and do this few times they will have it or minimaly have half which doesnt sound strong but its basekit unbreakable, once you would reach 95% of recover bar now with full meter you will just recover fully infinitely with no debuffs so yeah its kinda busted in swf hands if they find some way how to abuse it and this we will know after some when time ptb is live.
Same with 9.2.0. ptb where one of antutunnel protection was having no colision which still didnt stoped bodyblocking after anhook with antitunnel protection and made some saves like with flashbang uncounterable because survivors could abuse it to get into your character model and drop flashbang there which was guarantee save or flashlight saves that you wouldnt get normaly were possible because of this so we will see.
Its basekit nerf to twins and some to oni which you cant denny because their whole kits are forcing palyer to slug if he wants to get something out of his power, with twins playing both victor and charlotte in chase to get one guy is bad because it doesnt work same as two forms of krasue and twing lack the ability to pick survivors if they down them with victor across the map. Oni has to cause as much damage as possible and even if he slugs less than twins he doesnt get his power so easily and downing one guy with it and picking up will make you more likely loose becasue you will have no blood to get your power and keep up unlike other killers that have their powers all the time or requirements are more easy or their power still does something which oni lacks and will be punished for being desinged to be sluger just like twins which i find bad choice and devs didnt even stated they are aware of this issue which only shows they dont play their own game that much.
The Free pop goes away when you hit a surv and it doesn't benefit Trapper, Hag, Wraith, Twins, Oni or other killers who would need gen regression across multiple gens at once to compensate for their lower mobility, as such it does nothing for them and only benefits the S tiers. For lower tier killers, make it a free Oppression that affects all generators and ignores the maximum caps.
The haste, while a STEP in the right direction is minimal and should be higher to let them traverse the map with it being about the same for the high mobility killers, such as Krasue, Nurse and Blight. It just needs higher numbers for low mobility killers to be a good change.
The aura read was the only good one that functioned, it was what inspired the modified old deerstalker I suggested as it would only work on those with the least amount of hooks among downed survivors and weakens the hide to get unbreakable it would have brought with it.
Now to address what you call a buff to slugging and tunneling
"The system is another stick amongst the wall BHVR has built, perhaps if there was a carrot of buffs for hooking survivors (for example, a permament 3% haste bonus for hooking all survivors without killing any of them or having old deerstalker basekit but only for downed survivors with the lowest amount of hooks amongst the survivors who have been downed then tunneling and slugging would be reduced."
The permament 3% haste requires all survivors to be hooked at least once without any kills, so if someone tunnels a person out, they don't get the buff. It does not encourage tunneling. It also requires hooks, it does not encourage slugging.
The old deerstalker was conditional on the downed survivor having the least amount of hooks among downed survivors. This stops them from hiding and allows the killer to pick them up, reducing tunneling forced by survivors hiding. This helps prevent accidental tunneling and slugging.
I'd say as a fair anti-tunnel measure, they should have kept the "no unhook sound cue" part into the new proposed changes. Being able to hear the unhook go off would often prompt the killer to return to the hook, and thus finding the injured survivor quickly.
This is what I liked best about the original idea.
Yeah, I feel like that would've made the anti-tunnel more effective. Or have it still go off but be a tad delayed to give the unhooked survivor time to run off.
For sure, it would have been the best way to implement anti-tunnel without any form of punishment. Maybe with a 5-10 second delay, to allow the survivor to get to a safe location.
I have to respectfully disagree with your perspective. As someone who has spent a great deal of time playing both sides, it’s clear that no genuine killer main would make the argument you’re presenting.
Dead by Daylight has, for the majority of its lifespan, leaned heavily toward the survivor side of balance. Much of the game’s design and ongoing adjustments have focused on keeping survivor win rates — particularly those of coordinated SWF groups — healthy enough to ensure retention. This has often come at the expense of killers, who have consistently had to adapt to stronger tools, faster generator speeds, and layers of second-chance mechanics.
Items such as flashlights, medkits, and Brand New Parts have long enabled survivors to bypass or outright negate killer pressure. When killers find themselves in matches where generators are completed in just a few minutes, tunneling becomes one of the few reliable methods of maintaining momentum. While it may not be an enjoyable strategy to face, it often arises from necessity rather than preference.
Furthermore, if a survivor is consistently being targeted and cannot create distance, extend chases, or coordinate with teammates for body blocks or rescues, that generally points to a skill or teamwork gap rather than an inherent flaw in game design. The strongest survivor teams rarely experience sustained tunneling precisely because they know how to disrupt it through coordination and counterplay.
Ultimately, the frustration surrounding tunneling would diminish significantly if generator progression and item strength were balanced more evenly across both sides. Until then, killers will continue to use the tools available to them — just as survivors do.
I tend to agree but I would just like to say that its pretty easy to loose survivors who are slugged if you go for someone else and commit too hard. I have kinda dropped that habit, but sometimes I get lost in orbital attempts and forget to keep track of the slug.
Big emphasis on the word intentionally. I've had people leave me bleeding at their feet for the full four minutes just to grief. That needs to end.
I've also lost track of people. I've had a few that have bled out because of it and I've felt bad. I would have given them hatch if I could have found them becuae that was my screw up. I'd prefer them to be able to stand back up and reengage.
Know a thread is spicy when it's 10 pages long and in the first 2 pages half the posters are banned
I really don't get the backlash to this idea. To me it solved so many of the problems of the idea of killer just turning around and rushing hook. It would have had no impact on players not tunneling, nor even players who chased a survivor that went for the unhook. All it would have impacted where the proxy campers or the speed killers who plan to rush back to the hook the moment it happens.
This argument comes up a lot, but there seems to be inherent logical flaw:
When killers find themselves in matches where generators are completed in just a few minutes, tunneling becomes one of the few reliable methods of maintaining momentum. While it may not be an enjoyable strategy to face, it often arises from necessity rather than preference.Furthermore, if a survivor is consistently being targeted and cannot create distance, extend chases, or coordinate with teammates for body blocks or rescues, that generally points to a skill or teamwork gap rather than an inherent flaw in game design. The strongest survivor teams rarely experience sustained tunneling precisely because they know how to disrupt it through coordination and counterplay.Basically - killers need this because strong survivors can get gens done quickly, but simultaneously its not a problem because strong survivors can counter it. How is it a necessary counter against good play if good players can also deal with it?
If strong survivors can counter it, but its one of the few choices available, the game has deeper flaws. As many people have pointed out if kill rates did actually see marked declines post the change, then the game could be changed in a healthier fashion. If this is truly the only way killers have a chance, killers should be hoping it gets deemphasized so that other strategies can actually be boosted.
Ultimately, the frustration surrounding tunneling would diminish significantly if generator progression and item strength were balanced more evenly across both sides.We've had that in the past. Weakening survivors, or buffing killers in other areas, just leads to more tunneling.
Until then, killers will continue to use the tools available to them — just as survivors do.Non-sequitur. The thread is about getting BHVR to make a change, not about how people should play.
Tunneling/Camping or Slugging is a skill gap. I hope you're aware of that. And I'd think again about calling them 'tools', when really they're cheap tactics.
And secondly, not everyone is a SWF, and not everyone is an automatic survivor pro. Keep that in mind. I can't magically communicate with my random teammates saying that I'm being tunneled or camped, what do you expect them to be? Telepathic?
Thirdly, this post is about making a change. Because survivor is depressing as hell, especially on solo queue.
Ngl, I cackled when I saw your comment XD
I got really entertained too.
Well hopefully they keep making it easier for surv. Instant flashlights, unlimited tools, maybe give them even more pallets around so we can't chase them anymore… Now these changes to further bottleneck us? I think I'm done with this game for awhile. Here soon they'll be having the killers help do gens too.
I'd assume the pushback is that even if you're not tunneling, you want the unhooker as a target if you hadn't found one yet. You also don't want them to silently unhook the moment you turn your back. That definitely lessens pressure, especially with fast healing.
That being said, I'd also like the delay. 5s would have been fine.
Thats probably the major reason people hate the idea. The amount of times I have seen a survivor unhook while I barely got 5-10 meters away as it is baffling sometimes.
The delay is a good idea tho imho
Yeah, I never know if people are farming, griefing, or just dumb. Pretty sure it's usually option three.
Truly a who's who of the October bans. I tried really hard to walk away but...
Makes me wonder what they were banned for. I know some people had wild takes, but is that really bannable?
It's not a matter of "wild takes" so much as "repeatedly derailing threads and often managing to rile everyone else up so much that it devolved into insults which then required mod intervention.".
I'm not familiar with the term "October bans". Is there a pattern of ban waves during October? (Genuine question, I truly don't know if that's a thing XD).
I don't get it either. Maybe it's my name that has been tarnished from all the discussions regarding anti-tunnel, that some just automatically downvote my takes. I've seen it happen before.
The post that leads to a ban is usually deleted, so unless you see the post that got someone removed you wouldn't know for sure (and actually repeating a post that led to a ban, or discussing an individual in particular, is also against forum rules).
I've had a few times in the past few years where I've gone to quote a post to reply to it only for the forum to tell me no such post exists (because it got removed).
Knowing where the other survivor is - yeah, this is probably true, but this is such powerful meta game information that it seems strange that killers get it without even having to use a perk slot.
Unhook right after the hook - it would be risky because now the killer has a reason to turn and look behind them. I worry this will actually become more common, try to bait the killer into a tunnel with a strong looper who now has boosts, especially if you know they have DS.
But I saw lots of people really disliking the idea of messing with the UI. Which, their opinion, fair enough, I just didn't get it.
Thinking about the last PTB and the feedback - BHVR should have been more clear up front that something definitely was going to happen. No anti-tunnel, ever, wasn't very helpful if BHVR is absolutely set on something. I think if the discussion had instead been - some of this has to go through, what do you like the most or, if you hate the concept, what do you hate the least?' BHVR would have gotten more useful feedback (especially if they had clarified that the unique hook boosts were contingent on strong survivor boosts).
Unhook notification does make sense as a perk, yeah. I always kind of found it surprising it was free info. In some ways, they've manufactured the problem they're dealing with now. But if you just take stuff like that away, that people are used to, they'll flip out.
In terms of info, I wonder how this will go with aura read perks as well. You can't see the unhooked, but you can see the rescuer, which might tell you where the unhooked is, especially if there's a survivor healing an empty space. Perhaps we'll see a shift towards more close-range aura, like THWACK! or Darkness Revealed.
I agree smart and skilled survivors will find clever ways to manipulate this, and I think some adjustments will happen because of that. I've had survivors intentionally get downed early game so I'd think they were bad just to juice the hell out of me the rest of the match. Plenty of BMing to try to make me tunnel with DS as well. But I'm in the mindset that if you can be clever or bait the killer into throwing somehow then good for you, you outdid them. It's still a choice to chase that fresh unhook even when the game is telling you maybe you shouldn't.
Yeah, one area this company desperately needs to improve is how they say things. The wording is often to lax or casual and they should know by now that every breath they take will be over analyzed. The recent stream is a great example. They can pretend to be loose and casual and fun but they can't truly be so. It all needs to be clear, concise and calculated.
I swear any mention of tunneling brings out the worst in people.
I saw a thread on Twitter about how survivors sometimes get themselves tunneled. Like a freshly healed unhook running into the killer on purpose because they wanna use DS or think the killer will just ignore them. While I agree with the thread I personally don't think its tunneling if you antagonize the killer after the unhook.
But then somebody else replied claiming survivors get tunneled when they try to heal under the hook. To which I replied that if you're running back to the hook to prevent a reset and get an easy down on the fresh unhook, you're choosing to tunnel. That's just what tunneling is and you chose to do it.
And now I have angry people I'm my replies telling me I'm an entitled survivor main who thinks killers have to play by my made up rules. Like I didn't say you couldn't tunnel, just that you're choosing to tunnel.
I'm actually surprised. Over the past few days or so, the games has actually felt fine. No tunneling, spreading of hooks, and fairly even matches all around. Though I have mostly played normal queue, the games has been quite pleasant.
@For_The_People was pretty surprised as well. Might be because the sweaty ones are "tormenting" the event queue, now that there is so little time left, but who knows. At least it has been a pleasant time playing, where the matches has been fairly chill, and people has been respectful in the end chat as well.