Fog Vials have a max of 2 charges now
LMAO
Please just remove the item completely and refund some bloodpoints
I would take even no bloodpoints if the item doesnt appear in my bloodweb anymore
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Community Manager
LMAO
Please just remove the item completely and refund some bloodpoints
I would take even no bloodpoints if the item doesnt appear in my bloodweb anymore
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Revert all the opacity and visibility changes for both the item and the add-ons.
Limit its use to 4-5 charges per match.
Uhh soo for me it goes this way:
I generally think fog vial is awesome to use againts killers that rely on BBQ and other aura reading perks from far away and just generally gain advantage from that (you still needed to time it with fog vial and not just deply it).
With current changes it would fully remove the ability to use it for those scenarios and such
tbh as much as i hate fog viles i feel like this a lil overkill xd
maybe keep this change but buff them in some other way?
to make those 2 charges feel worth using
somehow, brother still thinks they are OP.
I have to agree. Just get rid of them all together and bring us something else you'll eventually nerf beyond use.
If you want to kill everything because it's mildly annoying, may I suggest dead man's switch?
Maybe it would be easier for you to share exactly what you would find acceptable for the vials to do? To date you've complained about the opacity, the unlimited use, aura blocking, and scratch marks.
I think if the opacity changes were reverted, the charges were increased slightly, and the cooldown was reduced significantly to compensate for the limited charges (having two things that limit an item's use feels bad), then they'd be in a perfect spot. They wouldn't be spammable for the entire game, but would still allow for a chance to evade the killer in a chase.
I'd also like to take the time to thank you for being so thorough with collecting feedback on here. It really makes it feel like we're being properly listened to as a playerbase and I appreciate that.
I guess a lot of us are just disappointed with how fast you guys reacted to the negative feedback upon release. What happened to giving new things time to settle before adjusting them?
You guys were planning on nerfing them for the first hotfix, which I think is insane. Its such a knee Jerk reaction. Once the hype for them died down, then look for feedback, because of course people are gonna complain about the new thing. They havent had time to figure out how tobplay against it.
You know the Iridescent add on? Gives 5% opacity and its drawbacks are like 25% smaller size and 50% less duration. Why would such a small buff need two giant downsides? Especially with how bad fog opacity is right now.
To answer your question:
I think unlimited uses was a good spot for the item, then equalize the fog opacity on every map. Then give the playerbase some time to try it before adjusting.
You guys are so clueless, it’s pathetic lol. You should’ve only done 1 of the 2 nerfs (preferably the max charges) and not both. I don’t know why we even have to take the time to tell you this as you guys would’ve found this out yourself if you played your own goddamn game
Everyone was already unhappy with their opacity reduced. Having even less uses isn't going to make anyone any happier. Charges are fine, but they need more, and the opacity needs to be restored. That or make better add-ons to get the opacity back up through those.
Dismantling the first new item for survivors in years--and one that a lot of people were excited about--is a misstep. Just introduce a Lightborn-equivalent perk for killers who find them too "annoying."
Maps are dead, keys are dead, fog vials are dead. People just use medkits.
Quite frankly, unless both changes made (the opacity + the pitifully low amount of charges) are either totally reverted or heavily improved, I don't think I'll ever use them. When I find them in chest, in game, I usually stick with my empty toolbox or med kit over taking one at this point, because they don't do anything of benefit to me as a survivor.
Without both of those nerfs undone, I'd much rather just have the bloodpoints I've been forced to waste on them and their add on's back, because they're fundamentally useless to me, and just pointlessly accumulating in my inventory.
Promising survivors a fun new item, letting us have it in an actually useable form for a whole two days before destroying it in the same fell swoop that maps and keys were destroyed feels less like balancing and more like a kick in the teeth honestly.
1. Going against the grain here but IMO either of the nerfs is fine if other is reverted. Either make it unlimited with decreased opacity or old opacity with limited charges
2. I know this is unlikely to happen, but if killer is nearby rather than blocking the Aura reading it should add extra aura views heading into random directions.
before i get into the details, i want to say that the large main reason (and i know you have reported this to the team and they are very aware of this) is the opacity is very, very inconsistent on the map you’re on. the difference between the opacity on dead dawg saloon and on coldwind farm is night and day. some maps (like coldwind), if i brought a fog vial into the match, i would probably only use it once or twice before realizing it is completely useless on those maps because of the bug with the opacity. i think if that issue got addressed and fixed before the opacity changes in HF1, we could’ve had a much clearer and better discussion on the density of the opacity of he fog vials.
onto the answers to your questions:
2. the one specific change i would make to them ( i know this is a big one) is to revert them back to their release iteration with the bug of the opacity being different based on the map fixed. i stated above that the bug is the biggest reason with them (imo) but i feel that if that bug was fixed, we would have a much better picture of what fog vials are intended to look like. the community always, and i mean always complains when something is added or changed in the game, it happens every update. the release version of fog vials should have been kept in the game at least until the next update (9.2.0) or the 9.3.0 mid-chapter to give the new toy syndrome time to wear off. we had no idea how the new item would play in the long run and it seems the fog vials skipped the usual balancing pattern of waiting a couple updates before adjusting to see how it plays out.
1- The opacity change.
2- Revert the opacity change.
Honestly, I don't think they should have infinite charges. No item in DBD does. But they need to actually have an effect, and I think the opacity change just made them… kinda useless.
Funny how 60 seconds on a Fog Vial is too oppressive but free Survivor tracking from Phantom Fear is fine. Making the Fog Vial limited is overkill.
Okay one is a perk the other one is an item.
I get it and we here get your point but stick to the topic because fog vial needa to help promote other item meta gameplay than just gen rushing
Tracking the survivor is part of a killer's job, so Phantom Fear is fine, but I agree with the bitter sentiment.
Second paragraph - why the knee jerk reaction then if you want to give people a chance to play a few trials? You nerfed the Fog Vials into the ground after a few days instead of just waiting for a longer time before the userate is normalized (and new toy syndrome wears off) and Killers would get used to seeing them in Trials.
Now you are telling us that we can just provide feedback and have to wait, while the last week was filled with complaints that Fog Vials are not really useable anymore since you can clearly see in them. In fact, reducing the charges to 2 (which even without the previous nerf is a very low number) does not even matter at all, since it is not worth bringing Fog Vials in the slightest.
Seriously, dont collect any "feedback" which will not be taken into account anyway and just remove them. Nobody wants to spend BPs on that Junk.
I use Fog Vials a lot and seems like in minority of people who understands how to use them right.
Most people just want to press a button and disappear mid chase, while it's more strategic tool.
I think first step is to make opacity equal on all maps, because on some maps it's completely fine and on others it's pretty low now.
How can we judge on its strength, if we don't know what to take as default opacity?
So after you guys will fix it, we can see what is default opacity is and then judge.
I think 2 charges is perfect place to be, maybe addon with 1 additional charge would be cool, but there is no point to make it more than 2 charges at base, because you don't use it more than 3 times on average with endless charges anyway.
I would really like to see Fog Vials being strong, but limited and not braindead to the point where you pressed the button and won the chase, as before.
I second this. We still don't know what the intended opacity a base kit fog vial is meant to be because there's no consistency across the maps. I'd go as far as to say I don't actually know what fog vials are intended to do anymore. Are they for losing the Killer in chase? Or are they more like a portable stealth perk that you pop once you've lost the Killer's line of sight? Perhaps they're for disguising your aura & location from long range aura reads and ranged powers? The vials really needed more time for player experimentation, since unlike toolboxes and med-kits, it's not immediately obvious to players how they are supposed to get value from the item.
It would help for us to know what BHVR wants players to use the item for. Then we as a community will be able to give you better quality feedback about them. Right now, I don't know what fog vials are supposed to do because they don't seem to do anything at all particularly well.
They should not make any changes with the opacity until the bug where the opacity changes depending on the map is fixed.
If they "revert" the opacity changes, we are again on the same point where on some maps the Vials are useless and on some maps the survivor magically vanishes at the moment it is thrown.
Has anyone tried this with Built to Last? Does it even work?
Also kinda insane how fog vials got nerfed in both patches but not a clown revert.
Item is still viable just no longer a 10-20 second free chase extension when used correctly on cooldown. I know I'll get downvoted for this but someone's gotta push at least A truth.
Reverting the opacity but also making it consistent across maps is the way. As it is, I don't even know what it's supposed to look like, because it looks different on every map. This was on RPD, in the "Welcome Leon" office, and I was baffled, because on other maps I can see right through it. Maybe try fixing it before nuking it.
Should have had charges to begin with, but revert the other nerfs if you added charges.
The truth is that it was a bugged item at first.
They've nerfed the opacity and now they've made it usable twice a match.
It's a huge overreaction, just like people saying it was OP.
Couldn't agree more. Went from a fun & a bit silly infinite item usage to nerfing the item effect to then further ruining it by adding a charges implement. Not just any amount though TWO a whole 2 charges. WOW! Amazing, back to Toolbox gen rushing & Medkit easy resets & mid chase shenanigans. People make the joke of this is why we can't have nice things but they gave us something fun & have done nothing but ruin it. I loved the idea of an infinite item just with a cooldown I thought that was just cool. I would love to know why we didn't just increase the cooldown? Why wasn't that the solution. But who are we to complain, survivors shouldn't have fun anyway, that's why Clown is still running around like Sonic every game.
Still a strong item when used correctly. Twice a match already provides enough value.
They’re useless just like map offerings, I don’t want to be forced to spend bloodpoints on something that I don’t find useful in a match.
It's hard to give feedback on whether balance has been hit in the right place when the adjustments aren't minor, but major changes to the item.
It's like if BHVR was a restaurant, the meal comes out and we (the customers) say it looks amazing but complain its a little too hot.
You take it back and when it comes back its frozen.
We complain, you take it back, and then when it comes out again the plate is literally on fire.
Fog Vials are a cool item. I think everyone gets the idea that they may take some time to balance (especially if BHVR gave stats, if the item is way overperforming we'd be more understanding), but radical changes just destroy the possibility of giving meaningful feedback.
Max charges is probably the way to go. Survivors aren't going to trade in the ability to heal themselves unless they get a good chance to actually lose the killer and every other survivor item functions off similar limitations.
The opacity nerf is what basically killed the item. Limited charges is fine and is a necessary change, the infinite usage was the only problem with fog vials, though maybe 3 charges would be appropriate, 2 is a bit limiting, but I feel like 3 would give ample opportunities to use the item while still requiring thoughtful and strategic use.
So I would do this, overall:
All they had to do was make them not have literally infinite charges or an extremely short cool down. This opacity nerf is wayyy too much off the top in addition to neutering the item to 2 charges. Jeez, it's just one blow after another.
They downvoted him because he was right! If its going to provide the value it does by extending chases (or even preventing them) then it needs to be very limited. Otherwise theres now EVEN MORE chase imbalance in the game that needs to be addressed for like 90% of the killer roster.
All items need to be rebalanced together (Yes toolboxes and medkits too). Survivors are so focused on their benefits they wont look at the larger picture in terms of game balancing. Wasting a killers very limited time is insane levels of value.
They also do too much all at once, remove the sound reduction off them and make it sight based only.
sorry for OT but I lol'd
Once again, bodyslamming something so you can fix it later isn’t the right way to go about it, becauE most of the time for this game in particular when it happens its literally forgotten about
Like Knotted Rope on Houndmaster
I was thinking something really similar on spot on similar.
Still one more than it should be, but at least it's no longer infinite.
Because I made my account years ago and haven't touched said settings in years. But if you're wondering. I think exhaustion is an inherent limiter to game balance mainly sprint burst, lithe and dramaturgy. I also think that survivor is not nearly bad of a state as some people claim.
Honey, more than half the killer roster has been buffed in the past two years — and guess what? The way most killers play hasn’t changed one bit.
You want to talk imbalance? Let’s talk about how a huge chunk of the killer player base would rather tunnel, camp, and slug than actually play the match. That’s not “pressure,” that’s just skipping the game.
And about items — survivors use them to try to stay alive in a role where one player is always outnumbered 1v4. The killer already has map control, instant information on hook states, and now more slowdown tools than ever. Acting like toolboxes or medkits are “insane value” while ignoring the fact that wasting a killer’s time is literally the point of the survivor role just shows how different our definitions of “balance” are.
You could buff every killer to be twice as strong, even four times stronger, and it wouldn’t matter — because the real problem isn’t numbers, it’s the mindset.
So if we’re talking balance… maybe we should start with how the game is actually being played.
I swear BHVR are allergic to trying the most obvious solution to any given issue. This surely should have been the initial nerf given to the vials.
It's a small thing, but I can't help wonder how much extra development time might have been saved addressing the common complaint Survivors were "spamming" fog vials by adding a longer cool down vs completely changing the item to be charge based.
keep in mind that Franklins Demise very likelly died because of this and now they have charges . Even still i don't think they will revert franklins now even tough they should . I also believe vials will inevitably be buffed up now that they have charges which they always should have . Idk how " lets give this " unlimite charges ever sounded like a good idea.
6 charges might aswell be unlimted charges. You werent using this 6+ times even with the 1 minute cooldown.
The core problem is that the opacity changes and the 1 minute cooldown is still present despite the significant nerf, going from infinite uses to just two lousy charges.
With the limited charges however, in the current state, this item group is not even worth spending bloodpoints on.
2a. If you revert the opacity changes, then 2 charges is a fine amount, as the item will be much less used within the trials, since it cannot be spam-used. But if you keep the opacity changes, then the charge amount needs to be doubled, and the cooldown reduced to 45 seconds.
2b. As for the add-ons, the iridescent one needs to be MUCH stronger if the charges stay the same. Give it two additional charges - if the charges stays, plus an increase in opacity, and taking away the current downside of reducing the smoke duration. The downside should be that the cooldown timer between each charge increases to 90 seconds.
The cooldown reducing add-on should be changed to "Adds one extra charge" instead.
I think everyone said it best Limiting it to 2 and not giving it any compensation buffs is overkill