How would you change The Dredge?
I think he is rare, on the weaker side Killer who needs some help. I think he is so cool and creepy killer but his power is hard againts decent Survivors.
I would love if locked lockers would not work or only half duration during nightfall. Add more lockers on some maps too (helps other killers too).
Comments
You really think random chases are viable. That, or you're just being contrarian with everything you're saying.
Strategies are used because they're the most efficient ways of winning, which promote skill because they require skill to execute. What killer can simply beat superior survivors by tunneling? He won't even be able to down them. Survivors not being able to deal with strategies is by and large a skill issue. They don't have a right to complain about a strategy they haven't even attempted to employ counterplay against.
I say this all the time: There's no reason to not bring in an item. It's a free advantage. And if you're playing to escape, you bring the 2 items which increase those chances the most, which are obviously toolboxes and medkits. If hit and run is so prevalent or strong, please, run a medkit. Especially if you're one of those survivor's who's like, "I'm not doing anything until I'm healed" or "We always get interrupted healing!" If you need the ability to heal yourself or finish off your heal, bring it.
The locks that Dredge gives survivors for free has been stupid from the start. We're just not outraged about it because it's been in for so long. But survivors really don't need all that, especially not the 2 lockers being locked by 1 lock (essentially).
I don't get how you don't see ANY skill in what the killer does. You can't simply turn your brain off and play killer. You're juggling like 10 things even a medium level of play. Give the players some credit.
And I get what you mean with relying on survivors' lack of game knowledge, but that's an issue with the killer role itself, and an 'issue' with the learning experience itself. Killers who are skilled at the game want to be able to beat good survivors, not just bad ones or ones lacking knowledge. That's why inaccurate matchmaking has been so bad for the game. But the survivors, in any event, need to understand that killers like the Dredge are the way that they are. Yes, Nightfall and hit and run can be inconvenient, because they're supposed to be. The killer is an obstacle to be overcome and is in opposition to the survivors. If they're unable to have meaningful abilities or use strategies, what's the point of the game for them?
You get pulled into a chest just like the locker grab.
And it will be like the Vecna mimics,
I really want the Dredge teleporting out of chest idea now LOL I'd use it with human greed + Hoarder all the time.
Hoarder unironically good on Dredge xD
there is something called awful matchmaking where even worst killers like Sadako have insanely high killrates and give consistent wins to people who spent time learning them.
It's almost as though learning a Killer in depth and getting very good at them makes you a better Killer that is more consistent or something…
yes but...results differ between matches against people with random skill level and people that have similar skill level to the one you have
Dredge does NOT need help
dredge is so abysmal
they want them to just stand there doing nothing.
If they just use the killer item locations to spawn lockers, he'd be great. Every spot that can have an Onryo TV or a Freddy alarm clock could just have a locker when the killer is Dredge.
This.
The biggest problem with Dredge is that when its chapter got released, the number of lockers in many if not all maps was increased. But then, in every single map release and update after that, the devs never considered his power again when making the locker distribution. Everytime a new map releases, it has less than the ideal number of lockers for Dredge, and every time a map is reworked, it has LESS lockers than before.
Hell, if the number of lockers in maps was so important for Dredge that they had to increase it when the killer released, then they should always make sure that number remains consistent in new maps, instead of indirectly nerf Dredge on every patch that envolves a map.
The only thing I would change about Dredge isn't even really a Dredge issue but better map design. Half of their power is reliant on lockers existing and a lot of maps don't even have lockers on some parts of the map. I somewhat agree with Dredge being able to teleport to chest but admittedly not for the same reasons. I just feel you can't really fix Dredge without an overhaul on how maps are generated based on what killer is present so having chest as an option to teleport to feels like while it is a bandaid fix it is an acceptable alternative.
I don't really have any comments on the rest of their power. It's just apparent that some maps they have decent locker distribution in and some maps don't have enough in the right spots. I don't really consider some indoor maps since lockers are plentiful there but for most general maps locker distribution could be better. Possibly even just spots that only spawn when Dredge is present.
So his whole counterplay is hold W, yeah that's a fundamental flaw. And yes a lot of the hit and run killers should indeed be removed
You really think it's reasonable to expect me to explain every little thing in what I say? There's a difference between saying nothing absolutely nothing and saying less than everything. Hit and run is a problem because it's a lazy strategy that doesn't involve chasing, which is the fun part of the game which everyone agrees with, coincidentally until hit and run is brought up lol.
Yes, legion wraith and sadako are also fundamentally flawed, it doesn't mean anything to me that not many people would agree since not many people actually understand this game well.
Blight has a strong and unique chase power so he's not forced into hit and run like the other killers which literally couldn't be buffed because they have little to no identity outside of it. Nurse, spirit, and wesker literally have no mobility. Unknown doesn't have mobility vs good players that dispell hallucinations frequently. Kaneki should have his free injure removed. Freddy same as blight and he has a long cooldown on his tp. All those killers you mentioned are definitely more challenging than dredge, not debatable whatsoever if they're easier because they absolutely not.
There's a difference between not being braindead and requiring a genius.
What you say about hit and run doesn't change my point whatsoever, he's still encouraged to do it.
Hit and run is the "base" of my argument because there's nothing more to say about him besides that and him not taking skill to play, ######### else you want me to say?
Sure they have the right to do so, doesn't take away from them being biased, just because people like a fundamentally flawed character doesn't mean they should be in the game.
Kaneki is not nearly as easy as dredge, the free injure brings him closer to that point sure, but the second hit still takes skill and has depth. Legion should be removed too. Using his tp is easy, literally just remember what gens are being worked on and tp there, and if there's no lockers nearby that's not a skill element just a disadvantage. Remnant doesn't require any skill except basic patience.
Hit and run is not skillful at any level except for killers that actually add depth to the decision making instead of just making it free to drop chase like dredge does
"Random chases." It's just chases, nothing random about it.
Never said I couldn't deal with it, I could but only if I'm on comms because that's what's required to deal with it. Very healthy of a playstyle to be OP vs survs without comms and useless vs survs with them, and it doesn't take skill just because you said so. Thinking hit and run should be viable is a skill issue.
Limited use is not "free," and still, doesn't make dredge take any more skill to a significant degree.
You quite literally can turn your brain off and play the killer, and the only reason you won't win is because he's weak, not because he's hard. Any juggling you have to do comes entirely from the killer role itself and not dredge.
What I meant was relying on survs lack of knowledge of realtime game events, like where teammates are or where tiles are, teammates is a general issue sure but tiles is entirely dredge's fault because of nightfall vfx. I don't mind the killer having abilities to inconvenience survivors but they should take skill to use, and dredeg's don't.
So now we have some actual points of discussion and I understand YOUR understanding and reasoning behind your opinion. I'm not a mind reader, I COULD vaguely intuit what reasoning you used to reach your conclusion, but there is a good chance I'm wrong. I might even agree with your conclusion, but I might not agree with your reasoning for getting there. You not explaining your stance means I don't correctly understand your perspective, which isn't really gonna help anyone debate on the issue, especially if I feel there is more nuance than what your conclusion presents... so yes, I do expect you to explain the details of what you want to say.
It also seems a little off to condemn people for down voting and not actually offering an argument to debate with you, but also hold the stance you shouldn't have to explain your point... do you want people to debate with you or not?
So to address the points you've raised here,I do agree Hit and Run isnt a fun playstyle... however I wouldn't say Dredge is especially effective at hit and run to the point of being problematic. When he uses his locker teleports, lockers being locked slows his exit from the locker and gives time for survivors to make it to safety. So Survivors do get the opportunity to loop Dredge, since at the very least Dredge needs to get an injury to make the exchange worth his time.
Using his remnant at loops is a difficult to handle tool for Survivors, and this threat means he can go for downs effectively... however you can mind game it and leave the tile to another while Dredge is slowed, it takes good map knowldge (or WoO) to do so, but it can be done. He has to actually commit to chases and gettimg hits if he wants to start getting his Nightfall up, and at some point he has to start committing for hooks, however if he takes too long he has to leave and try to maintain control of the macro the game elsewhere.
This is the same deal with these other killers. Their ability to close out chase is limited, and this is the trade off imposed by the relatively easy first hits of their powers... they can suprise players and get hits easier than they can a Survivor in chase, which comes with a trade off of how effective are the Survivors at healing one another and/or their ability to play injured.
You talk about understanding this game, but Blight is a fundamental problem to DBD, because Blight has the lethality to brute force hits on Survivors at a number of locations, and the "skill" of Blight is learning when you can do so. These hits are what allow him to keep up with the strongest survivor teams, and he still has the map mobility to mostly ignore the macro game, and make it all about the micro.
The S tier killers are basically playing a different game to everyone else. Most other killers have to pay careful mind to the macro of the trial, since they can't brute forces hits at tiles. They need to actually measure up the respective cost of trying to take the time to down survivors. This is why they struggle against top level survivors, because there is no means of scoring a near guaranteed hit efficiently, even if played at max potential. This is why against exceptional survivors these killers tend to get demolished. S tiers on the other hand makes it basically impossible to give killers basekit buffs to help, because these killers also exist.
Also what do you mean Nurse, Spirit and Wesker have no mobility? They certainly have more than well over half the killer cast and they all have cooldown, duration, and/or distance add-ons that let them move significantly more efficiently across the map... and these kinds of add-ons tend to be the more popular add-ons.
I'd agree that Dredge isn't mechanically demanding, he is easy to play from an inputs perspective, however good survivors can handle him pretty easy, and he struggles for an effective answer against them.
Dredge, like many low to mid tier killers, is a bit of a noob stomper. Mistakes by a few less experienced players, or a veteran who makes a mistake, can be very costly for Survivors, but any decently competant players can certainly give him a hard time. He is also very map reliant...
In regards to how much of a "problem" he is, I can admit Dredge isn't flawless (I'd argue Huntress or Hillbilly is probably the best designed killers), but I'd certainly cite any problems Dredge has as not that big a deal, and more of a preference issue than an objective problem on the game.
I mean what would a fix for Dredge hit and run even look like? Longer cooldown on his TP and a stronger dash power to close out chases? Cause it seems to me the only thing that ever constitutes "good design" in DBD is just keep adding different flavours of dash killer. Everyone has to be some derivative of Wesker, otherwise they suck... which needless to say.. is pretty sad if true.
Please elaborate, on how Kaneki takes more skill than Legion when you have to do an entire chase as an m1 as Legion compared to Kaneki who can ignore god pallets and catch up in seconds, often leaving you with nothing to loop them. This just doesn't add up for me.
Remembering what gens are worked and returning to defend them is something EVERY high mobility killer can do. Blight, Nurse, Dredge, Kaneki, Billy, Oni (power), Sadako, Dracula, Demo, Xeno, Wraith and Vecna are just some that I can think of. Dredge is just one of them. One of them that has to deal with lockers being placed and locked. Something a killer like Kaneki, for example, doesn't have to care about.
Remnant can be tricky to use because it allows a variety of counterplay. Two of them being shift w or running into the remnant. If cleverly placed, a good Dredge can outplay very difficult structures with a bit of planning and timing. It all depends on how creative the killer player wants to be. Let's take artist as a comparison. She allows all kinds of crazy plays with her power. It all depends on how the player uses it. Do they just chase loop to loop, always placing a bird down (boring) or do they use birds from across the map to snipe people / set up birds in unexpected spots in larger structures?
Again, no killer should be removed. You, like all of us, have an opinion. Does not mean you are right about it. Does not mean the other people are right about it. You tell them they are biased, but are ultimate biased yourself.
People just want more sm game play look st the last 7 docs all the killers take barley any effort to play now killer are so accustomed to how easy it is now all killer have yo follow siute u shouldent be able to pick up any killer and get a 4k but rn killers are so easy to play and take 0 effort to actually get half decent
Well, i main dredge also and i am surprised you dont have issues with him. Its not uncommon on some maps that half the map does not have any lockers, and the rest ist cluttered on the other half. Basicly, you can see when first using your power if you have a shot at that match or not. And its just bad to lose to rng, so i see there is a need of fixing.
real lol
... I don't know why you think Dredge of all killers require bare minimum of a skill level to play.
I didn't think I'd see someone thinking Dredge is a strong killer and when I have played Dredge (I even adepted him) - I did not play hit and run Dredge.
I'm on mobile, dang - I do like the tagged person's addition. It would help with the fact that sometimes lockers are not near gens that you need to teleport to, and it is on theme for Dredge as you know, chests are locked and/or open. It gives more viability to Dredge, albeit basement's chest would be utterly useless of course. Regardless, this is a good simple change.
@OrangeBear
i adept every character I get before I do anything else
I cannot get the Huntress or Demogorgon one months ago, lmfao.
I did try to adept most of them, but I actually enjoyed Dredge. He's not my favorite character to play, but he is fun to play.
He's not strong, you can bait out the teleport and force Dredge to lose distance. Dredge takes a lot of timing and knowing when to pull up the power versus brute forcing for a down. He's not obscenely a hard character to play, but he's not the easiest to play imaginable. When I did play him, I typically opted for aura reading (LP + BBQ) with two slowdowns (Pop + Pain Res). So, my Dredge playstyle was more information based, spreading gen pressure, and not a typical hit and run playstyle.
Only character I "hit and run" as was Legion (obviously due to their power).
who actually is your favorite killer to play?
I'm gonna be honest and say I haven't played killer in a while, but of the ones I have played...
My first killer I got into was Wraith and then I started to struggle a bit as I climbed in MMR.
So, I started shifting towards Onryo, Trapper, and Doctor. I liked Nemesis and even Skull Merchant (I haven't played her in a while though).
I typically played a whole bunch of killers, but I would say who I excel with the best is the initial three, but I am not a killer main or someone who has invested thousands of hours into the role (at best, it is hundreds). Dredge was super fun to play, he's quite simple with my build that I had for him - LP gives information to go to a certain place, downs are easy from what I experienced with him (indoor maps are his strengths), and BBQ gives information to teleport to a locker to continue pressure with Pop and the eventual down. He's probably in my top ten for sure, maybe top five if I'm being honest -- just not my favorite.
those are actually some interesting picks that don't seem to have much of anything in common
Lmao, well yeah - I enjoy Trapper as I typically do gen regression on him, along with grassy map offerings as he shines on those maps.
Onryo for her ability to teleport on demand and continue with gen regression - to me, she's a stronger Dredge by definition.
Doctor for his ability to maintain gen pressure and shut loops down. I did mention that I had hundreds of hours, I don't really find killer to play as fun for me - but again, that's just me. Those are the killers I found fun to play as, as you did ask me for my favorites. People can have favorites that excel at different things. - you know what all three have in common? The ability to shut down loops. Trapper does that with his traps, Onryo does that with her demanifestation/manifestation, and Doctor does that with shocks, so yes sir.
fair enough
i enjoy killers like dredge, oni, blight, and the legion because of their cross map mobility
Do you play on PC? I have played Blight before, but I find him a little hard to control on console.
Dredge feels a bit clunky to play as, as Dredge is practically Onryo with a few extra steps.
Onryo typically has her TVs near gens and sometimes there's an overlap when two gens are clustered, meaning two TVs near two gens that survivors would have to turn off. She gets more teleportation and mobility built into her kit and as others stated, Dredge's issue is that he's very map dependent.
A gen can spawn in the corner of the map or in a deadzone, Dredge teleports to a locker not so close to said gen (think of Temple of Purgation map), which results in Dredge having to manually walk to the gen. I do feel like adding more lockers (hopefully not near windows lol) and the ability to teleport to chests would give him more viability.
He is strong in shutting down loops, but suffers if the survivor is holding a 99 Sprint Burst or a survivor Lithes away, resulting in the Dredge losing distance, having to teleport to a locker to catch up or walk. However, he is fun to play and I know people would rank him higher in higher MMR. 😋
Legion is interesting, what's your reasoning there as they operate different from your previous three?
Lmaooo bro called dredge weak.
He is fine. His power needs to BE tunes down a bit tho. Cant see anything
Yo dude, this is poetry. This is exactly the truth of this game. Most Killers play one game, S tiers play another, and the issue is there's Killers in general that just do not play this macro game or have to learn the same skill around handling tiles.
This is why lower tiers get wrecked against really and I mean REALLY good Survs, who are vanishingly rare anyway. It's not that their kits are bad or weak in any way. It's that their kits are average and balanced, but the upper tiers just simply do not have kits that play by the same rules. They have been powercrept by something 95% of Killer choices can only dream of.
That's unfair, skews balance, and isn't fun. It cheapens the game. It messes up balance for the rest of the roster and directly leads to terrible nerfs that never needed to happen. If you can just learn the "skill" of spamming a power and making all loops unsafe as Blight, why bother learning anyone else or any macro skill? Why bother ever improving as a Killer when characters like Nurse are all you need? You won't need this skill because you will never play any of the "bad Killers".
If we removed the five strongest (read "overtuned") Killers in the game, then every single Killer shifts up a tier and we can look at the ACTUAL balance of the game, where pretty much every single Killer including Trapper is in a very good or at least decent state (except poor beleagured Skurchent who got gutted to oblivion until her rework, anyway, but even she isn't totally unplayable). at that point if you are not getting results with someone in that 95% of the roster, it's absolutely not their kit being bad. It's you being bad at their kit or that kit not gelling with your playstyle. I could make a tierlist showing what it would look like if the top five current Killers were removed from the game or not considered, but I don't feel like it at the moment. I bet it would look pretty balanced though with MOST Killers in B or A tier, including ones you may not expect to ever be there.
I also Main Dredge and I simply just become more tactical and aware of what Survivors are doing in the round, playing a lot more Macro, on maps that lack lockers.
You are the first ever person I have seen on these forums acknowledge the strength of a stealth Killer like Onryo making loops very dangerous with her admittedly weak Stealth, which Killers like Wraith and Ghostface can also do due to on-demand stealth powers. It's like people forget that this IS a type of antiloop because it's the original form of antiloop - mindgaming. These three Killers ALL excel at extended mindgames, and it baffles me that I do not see more people playing these Killers ever do that anymore. I always do it at tall loops and it really does make a difference in play. I guess it's a lost art form.
When did I say dredge is a strong killer?
He IS weak, he is playable and winnable so not worst killer in the game, but weak
His remnant got huge buffs as well as nightfall charges and breaking locker speed. He used to suffer from loop connection but with his speed being increased while holding remnant he closes gaps way quicker. If any buffs I'd make his teleport speed way way faster. Locker placement isnt issue imo because he has no limitation to his teleport apart from anticamp.
Who played within the eruption/call of brine meta knows how frustrating he was to verse and that he got huge buffs since then and is in quite decent spot. I don't think every killer has to 50-50 at loop, close chase in 20s withou much skill expression and Dredge is one of those who kinda need to use brain to win which is imo good design.
Hehehehe cheers 🤘😁🤘
PixelBush recently coined the phrase "Dash Slop", referring to every new killer over the past year being some derivative of highly mobile dash killer in one way shape or form... and I've kinda taken a liking to it 😅
I fail to see how the last 7 killers don't take any effort to play. Especially killers like Houndmaster. Dracula and Vecna also aren't that easy, even if they don't have the absolute highest skill ceilings. Same goes with Unkown, who arguably has a very high skill ceiling.
Kaneki was certainly too strong for how easy he is to play, and arguably still is a bit too strong, but even he does take a little bit of effort for sure.
everything is weak if you compare it to blight, nurse, billy.
Killers shouldn't all b A/S tier. that's stupid. And if you want that, maybe we should just delete 90% of the killers from the game.
I feel like I've been screaming this exact sentiment for years now. No. M1 and low mobility Killers aren't bad with weak kits.
Dash Killers are overtuned and it's ruining the game for everyone. It was fine when it was just Blight, but it's not just Blight anymore. It's Blight and Kaneki and Wesker and retooled Legion and Chucky pre-nerf, and it's not fun to deal with. "Dash Slop" makes sense. I just think it needs a better term.
Haha, thank you! I arguably haven't played killer in months (I prefer playing survivor, so I haven't touched killer in a while) but I think I analyze the game on a fundamental level. 🥲
I like to look at all the killers having potential pros and cons, with counterplay for each killer. Like we've mentioned, Onryo can catch up to a survivor who has used exhaustion as she can quickly shift between manifest/demanifest. Dredge suffers a lot here as obviously they can't keep creating remnants over and over to close down a loop, meaning he suffers here a little more. He can teleport to a locker and sometimes lose even more distance at times too. It's not excessive, but you understand my point that it is noticeable.
I do feel like when I played killer, I recognized bad behaviors survivors do -- for example, survivors who excessively try to get a gen done without recognizing that there are other gens to do, there are gens nearby that you can work on... Instead of going down for the same gen over and over. Another factor is simply walking away to avoid leaving scratch marks to throw the killer off, which is definitely a lost art for some survivors.
So, playing both roles allowed me to analyze the game a bit better, even if I have way more hours in survivor gameplay. Survivor gameplay allows people to obviously pick up on these things and learn counterplay too. 😊
I think for Wraith, Ghostface, and Dredge - the reasoning is mainly lack of mobility (even though I'd argue Wraith is mobile, as they can traverse the map, bodyblock, and close down loops with timing of uncloaks). Ghostface is a bit harder to do, especially with being broken out of stealth and mindgaming, but a Ghostface who knows how to hide their red stain excels. Dredge, like I mentioned in the above . People typically opt for higher mobility killers as they have higher lethality → Blight (rushing and speed allows for more snowballing), Nurse (bypassing pallets, map traversal, and potential snowballs), Hillbilly (high map traversal and potential to one shot with a timed curve), Kaneki (high mobility, the biting mechanic, the ability to bodyblock ((similar to a Wraith)), and snowball potential).
Dredge suffers a bit from snowball potential unless survivors are clustered together, hence the hit and run playstyle, while Wraith is similar here to Dredge. Same for Ghostface again, unless the survivors are clustered and being able to be marked and downed continually.
You advocated for removing him, why else think that the killer is a fundamental problem and/or strong character to play. If Dredge is not a strong killer, why would you think that this comment wouldn't imply strength as a factor in your recommendation for his removal?
Typically, killers deemed 'fundamentally flawed' in this way are either oppressive or frustrating to play against, which tends to correlate with perceived strength in some form.
If the issue isn't his strength, then is it more about him being unfun rather than overpowered?
Just remove being forced to go to locked locker, .ake it a 50/50 for the dredge
Ok well that's an immature assumption to make, killers can have plenty other problems besides strength. My problem with him is that he takes little skill to play and is encouraged to hit and run, a lazy strategy made really easy by his mobility.
This is also why I try so hard to defend stealth Killers on these forums. They're fine, they're actually genuinely fine and balanced. Yes even with low mobility. The mindgames are the point, the difficulty in finding them is the point, they do fine. It's not "just bad Survivors" either because as BHVR's own data shows, most people don't even play at that level and these Killers are all still hitting around 60% Killrates on average just. Friggin'. Fine.
I truly do think that people in the community are either so spoiled for strong choices that make the game trivial now that they just don't consider these guys, at all… that, or they remember when they actually were pathetically weak and don't think the buffs they DID get are enough because, well, they can't dash and patrol the whole map at mach ten, and they can't easily snowball at 5 gens, and they take genuine effort and skill at Killer overall to play, so they may as well be as bad as Trapper right?
it's like some people in this community can't live without looking at anyone that doesn't have a mobility option and crapping on them because "they're old, they're not fast, they have to be weak because if I'm wrong and they're actually not that weak and they're fine, that makes me WRONG, and God Forbid I get proven wrong on the internet…"
"Is it true? Am I so out of touch? No. No, it's just that they always play against bad Survivors and nothing else, that's it, anyone who plays them ONLY gets Bad Survivors and just ain't very good. Not like me, the strong Blight Main who easily winstreaks because I make the game trivial and ends the game before it even starts at 5 gens so nobody gets a round. Yeah, I'M the biggest baddest best Killer around! I'M the skilled one! Me!"